He has angered Australian Muslims by saying this, but we have already seen evidence that the jihad ideology has been taught in some Australian mosques. How, since neither Australian nor any other Muslims have actually declared Osama bin Laden and his ilk to be unbelievers, can anyone be sure that it is not being taught now? Why, if Australian Muslims know this but are loyal to Australia as it is currently constituted, would they not favor such measures?
From the NY Times, with thanks to Sr. Soph:
CANBERRA, Aug 24 (Reuters) - Prime Minister John Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spies monitoring the nation's mosques....Howard said that while the government had no wish to interfere with the freedom and practice of religion, he supported sending people into mosques and Islamic schools to make sure nobody was promoting support for violence or extremism.
"We have a right to know whether there is, within any section of the Islamic community, a preaching of the virtues of terrorism, whether any comfort or harbour is given to terrorism within that community," Howard told Australian radio.
Muslim Civil Rights Advocacy Network convenor Waleed Kadous said Howard should be consulting more with the Muslim community.
"Such hardline talk only isolates some parts of the Muslim community even further and makes it harder for cooperation between the Muslim community and the government," Kadous told Australian Associated Press.
Why would it do that? He is saying that the Australian government has a right to know if sedition is being preached in Australian mosques. Consequently, says Kadous, Muslims in Australia will feel more isolated and not want to cooperate with the government. How does that follow? If Howard said that he was certain that sedition was not being preached in Australian mosques, would Kadous say that Muslims in Australia feel less isolated and more willing to cooperate? In other words: "Admit we aren't do anything wrong, and we will help you prove it."
Good for Howard. It seems pretty obvious from all the reporting I've seen that clerics play a major role in identifying, recruiting, and organizing the jihadi elements within the Muslim community. For so long as allegience to the community outweighs the average Muslim's interest in promoting a greater civil society it would be irrespnsible not to monitor what's going on in the mosques. My daugters' safety means a heck of a lot more to me than somebody else's sensitivity.
Bless John Howard.
Monitoring should be normal and pervasive throughout the Western world.
Islam is seditious by its own teachings.
If sedition is found in the mosque CLOSE IT DOWN AND DEPORT THE IMAMS.
More of this needs to be done. It should be done here in the UK, too.
One positive thing does seem to be happening, though: it seems that people are beginning - everso slowly - to be waking up to the threat of islamofascism!
We even heard a prominent Conservative MP, a contender for the leadership of the Conservative Party, likening the threat of Islamofascism to the Nazi threat prior to WWII. Now that's progress!
Many organizations have been "monitored" by agents in the past and currently. The KKK, the militias, biker gangs, even gun shows are attended, large rallies of all kinds. Do they get a pass because they are religious? No, they should not because they are not just religious and they admit that. They are political. And have openly advocated an overthrow of the countries current laws. No wonder the countries they came from were so iron fisted towards them.
We need to have our own domestic spy agency much like the UK has MI-5. The FBI is a law enforcement agency and as such is not equipped for spying. The CIA by its charter is a foriegn espionage agency. Any domestic agency would need proper oversight to allay any concerns of the citizenry, and yes there would be many. But realistically how do we get things like this under control. Secondly we should remove protections afforded Islam under the constitution that are provided for all other religions in realizing that we are dealing with a political ideology rather than a religion in the traditional sense. Now for the fun part... convincing the rest of our by and large uninformed populace that this is vital and neceassry.
So far we seem to be fortunate in Australia not to have the quislings like 'Gallow-swine' who are agitating against the government and suck up to the Islamo-fascists.
Even Kim Beazley, leader of the Opposition and an otherwise hopeless blow-boy is making the 'right' noises. But then again, a little huffing and puffing is not exactly what needs to be done:
Closing the mosques, stopping the funding for the madrassahs,(Ausrtalia is paying 100 million to Islamic Schools annually, who in turn preach hatred and sedition) and of course mass-deportations.Most of them already have a record of anti-democratic activities.
Don't share our values? We don't want yours, Piss off!
Cappy above is quite right:
" we should remove protections afforded Islam under the constitution that are provided for all other religions in realizing that we are dealing with a political ideology rather than a religion in the traditional sense"
I've been saying this for years now!
If they start mounting senseless objections as early as this, there must be something they're not willing to show the Australians.
What's unfolding in Australia right now is in fact painfully resembling of the same process happening in Pakistan today — same reactions, same words, same lame excuses and explanations
Now, we know that extremism IS being taught in Pakistan's madrassas, for that's where the London bombers found their inspiration. We also see the same stiff opposition the Government Involvement in Australia. You do the math.
-----------------------------
dolphin, CAGE co-founder.
http://www.acage.org
Yes, some mosques DO have things to hide.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/fr/856291/posts?page=7
What we don't know can hurt us
Teresa Watanabe of the Los Angeles Times showed what could be done in a detailed piece of reporting (appropriately headlined, "Inside a Complex Community"
"Inside the mosque community, there are those who are sympathetic to jihad and suicide bombings and those who are not. Some object to non-Muslims visiting their sacred space; others warmly embrace them. Some women veil their entire bodies; others throw off such practices as outdated.... On the Friday after the terrorist attacks, the imam [Tajuddin Shuaib] says, he gave a sermon condemning suicide bombings and was shouted down by some men who leaped to their feet and accused him of 'changing the Quran.'"
Of course, not many reporters get into the mosques that are preaching true Islam, at the time it's being preached.
And the only things that Ibrahim Hooper and I have in common are that we're both white and originally from Minnesota. So it isn't likely that I'll be doing any covert mosque monitoring.
But a few ex-Muslims could get the recorded low-down on fire and brimstone sermons.
Time to send a few emails.
If the mosques involved don't like the monitoring, I guess they can take their mosques and all the members to an islam-friendly country.
I am so pleased that some government officials are waking to the true threat.
PRCS said "But a few ex-Muslims could get the recorded low-down on fire and brimstone sermons."
Is there such a thing as an ex-Muslim? I mean, Jews and Christians at least get the option of paying the jizya tax instead of death, but ex-Muslims are under an immediate death threat, aren't they? Qur'an 4:89 seems pretty clear:
“But if they turn back from Islam, becoming renegades, seize them and kill them wherever you find them.”
If you were lucky enough to escape with your life, would you be willing to go back into the snake's nest?
BTW, I'm an ex-Minnesotan too, so it would be hard for me to be unobtrusive in a mosque.
Dolphin.... really great site! Thank you for creating AND sharing it. I saved it and will pass it on.
Just_Linda
No, thank YOU! Thank you for taking interest and passing it on to your friends and colleagues. We need to get our message out to as many people as possible, and that's why people like you are a BLESSING to us.
I'd like to ask anyone who'd liked our site to please spread the word. We need people to wake up to the Islamist threat, and the more of them do, the better.
special_guest,
Good points, but, yes, there are ex-muslims.
For the price of a plane ticket, a motel room and 3 squares a day, an ex-Muslim from Miami could probably enter a Los Angeles mosque without much difficulty.
They're an under-utilized resource.
Just imagine sending a DVD, translated into English, of a few nasty Imams delivering a few nasty Khutba's (and their eager, unchallenging congregants) to every Congressman and Senator.
The TV program A Current Affair held a poll this week, asking the question:
'Do you think radical Muslims should be asked to leave Australia?'
The poll attracted the largest number of voters ever recorded and the result was 98% for 'YES' - also the strongest vote ever recorded.
If nothing else, the summit has brought the agenda of radical Islam into the open and manouvred Muslim leaders into unambivalent statements they cannot back away from.
From The Australian:
Costello tells firebrand clerics to get out of Australia
Samantha Maiden
August 23, 2005
'PETER Costello [deputy PM of Australia] is urging radical Muslim clerics to leave Australia if they do not share the nation's values ahead of today's national terrorism summit organised by the Prime Minister.'
'"If you don't like those values, then don't come here. Australia is not for you," Mr Costello said yesterday. "This is the way I look at it: Australia is a secular society, with parliamentary law, part of the Western tradition of individual rights."'
'"If you are looking for a country that practises theocracy, sharia law -- which is anti-Western -- there are those countries in the world ... you will be happy there. But you won't be happy in Australia."'
'Foreign Minister Alexander Downer also compared fundamentalist Muslims to Nazis as he defended the decision not to invite radical clerics to today's summit'.
Thanks Mr. Howard, it is so nice that Australia is waking up.There are many people in the community who, as yet, don't realise the danger of islam.I also try to spread the word (without becoming a bore) to as many people as possible.
All western countries must wake up....both governments and the people..islam is dangerous.
Thanks Mr. Howard, it is so nice that Australia is waking up.There are many people in the community who, as yet, don't realise the danger of islam.I also try to spread the word (without becoming a bore) to as many people as possible.
All western countries must wake up....both governments and the people..islam is dangerous.
Thanks Mr. Howard, it is so nice that Australia is waking up.There are many people in the community who, as yet, don't realise the danger of islam.I also try to spread the word (without becoming a bore) to as many people as possible.
All western countries must wake up....both governments and the people..islam is dangerous.
We would like a Howard in Spain, please.