All right, let me get this straight: when American troops went to Saudi Arabia, they had to avoid all overt practice of Christianity or Judaism. Why? Because that's their culture, and we have to respect it. And now when Saudis come to Virginia Tech, they're given gender-segregated classes. Why? Because that's their culture, and we have to respect it. So their culture trumps ours both in Saudi Arabia and in the United States.
This reminds me of the British colonial official who outlawed suttee in India. "But it's our culture," an Indian protested, whereupon the official replied: "Yes, and it's our culture to jail those who encourage its practice." But no one today has enough spine to stand up for gender equality or freedom of conscience in the face of Sharia. "Classes for Saudis separated: Gender-specific classes are given at Tech this summer for people from Saudi Arabia," from The Roanoke Times, with thanks to Ixnay:
BLACKSBURG - About 60 faculty members from a Saudi Arabian university are taking courses on Virginia Tech's campus this summer. But the program's setup is a bit different than a typical Tech class.Men and women from King Abdulaziz University are taking identical faculty development courses at Tech, but meet in gender-specific classes. Tech officials said administrators from the Saudi university separated the sexes to mirror classroom settings at their home institution, which operates separate campuses for men and women.
"This is the way they teach their courses over there, and this is the way they wish their courses to be taught over here," said Tech spokesman Larry Hincker. The university chose to respect the Saudi culture "rather than impress our culture on them," he added.
aaaah, our lovely friends the saudis - theres a great story from the BBC here
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4137626.stm
make sure you read all the way to the last line...
Sixty foreign students make one heckuva lot of income, and no doubt Virginia Tech made them pay through the nose for the privilege. Money talks, even to this extent.
As Robert has pointed out, though not in my words which follow, multiculturalism applies only to Islamic values; Western values must be curbed.
Here's a short item about the Virgina Tech classes, from the Washington Post...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/06/AR2005080601037_pf.html :
Program Brings Saudis to Tech
"About 60 faculty members from a Saudi Arabian university are taking courses at Virginia Tech in classrooms separated by gender.
"Virginia Tech officials said administrators from King Abdul Aziz University in Jeddah asked for the separation to reflect practices at their home institution.
"'This is the way they teach their courses over there, and this is the way they wish their courses to be taught over here,' a Virginia Tech spokesman said.
"The courses are in English instruction, communications, distance learning and Web site development. The program is being offered through a contract between the schools that does not involve state money, the spokesman said."
It's okay because it doesn't involve state money? Pardon me, but if these classes are meeting under the aegis of Virgnia Tech, state money is involved, by default.
Also, think about these Saudis learning about Web site development. Recently, the Washington Post has been running articles about how Al-Qaeda and Zawahiri (sp?) use the web to promote jihadism. And we're training Middle Eastern students in how to use the Web? Stupid!
multiculturalism applies only to Islamic values; Western values must be curbed.
How true. There has been a big outcry about the banning in the UK of Hizb ut Tahrir, the Islamic 'political party' which aims to establish the Caliphate. Their 'manifesto', if you can call it that, states, amongst other things, that free speech will be allowed provided it doesn't contravene Islamic principles.
Now that's a laugh, of course, though laughing, particularly as I'm a woman, contradicts Islamic principles. However, my main point is that the item (two videos) on the Hizb website protesting the van, is entitled: Is Western Liberalism Dead? Here's the link - it's fascinating:
http://www.khilafah.com/home/category.php?DocumentID=11639&TagID=8
The panel, all very plausible, discuss how intolerant it is of the British government not to allow free speech, how the princples of democracy are being compromised and so forth. The word 'Orwellian' is trotted out. You find yourself agreeing with their words when taken at face value, but of course, when you consider their agenda, a theocratic state in which freedom of conscience would be a thing of the past, you want to laugh out loud. Oops, there I go again like a shameless infidel...
Sorry, typo above - it's the 'ban' that Hizb ut Tahrir are protesting, not the 'van'. As far as I know, vans will be allowed in the Caliphate, provided they don't contradict Islamic principles. Van Gogh would be an example of a haram van, perhaps.
VT receives Federal dollars. Discrimination by gender is illegal under Federal law even if the classes are equal. Therefore, VT has violated Federal law. Any Federal DA willing to take up the case?
We should flood Larry Hincker's office with calls and emails to let him know how foolish this PC act is. When in Rome do as the Romans do!!!
Liberalism truly is a mental disorder!
Interested,
Do not laugh, or you will surely have a double punishment.
Seriously, this is cultural imperialism.
And that, for the record, is bad.
Geoff
Terrahawk,
Good point about federal dollars. I hadn't thought of that aspect.
Let's see...Lefties say this program at VT is okay because no state dollars are involved (a point, which I dispute--Who paid for those classrooms to be built?) and Righty Karen Hughes is busy trying to establish understanding between Muslims and Westerners.
Dhimmitudiners on all sides. Making me crazy these days.
Apparently some professors are protesting this.
Go to the Roanoke Times message board and let them know how you really feel!
http://messageboards.roanoke.com/webx?13@194.Nc1baUmdijB.4@.1ad52949/1
WatchfulEye,
My understanding is that once an institution accepts government funds (state or Federal), it is obligated to follow non-discrimination laws. And, those laws apply to non-citizens. VT is on very shaky ground here legally. I think the problem will be finding someone with legal standing to bring a lawsuit.
I also agree that it is frustrating that no one seems to be willing to state the true nature of the problem. However, I think that is slowly changing. Some people in authority are making tentative steps in the right direction.
Why in the hell are we educating our enemies anyway? They should have to attend islamic schools in islamic lands. Aren't their schools "superior"? If not, why not? Could it be that the qur'an is the main subject in islamic schools? We should not impart one whit of anything to islam. No foreign aid to our enemies, no "unclean" food, material of any kind, tools, technology....nothing!
kelley
I composed a letter on the messageboard you linked to, but I couldn't be civil (I am so angry) so I didn't post. I think most there have a brain cell. You should read the post from "AN American Woman" the dhimmitude drips!
Well, Carolyn2, the Universities , perhaps not all of them, are in it for the money. Foreign students usually pay full fees, in most cases even more as the programs usually come with room and board.
The education-business would protest very much if the US were to stop them from coming.
But if they want segregation they should pay through the nose for it.
And if women are serious about women's rights, then they should protest against it and make sure that the stay of these Saudi's is as unpleasant as possible.
The information they learn will be use against us.Commuications,Website development = more efficient spreading of Islam,Da'wa and Propaganda.
I agree--it's all about money. But, occasionally, the Muslims lose. Several years ago, a Saudi student approached the director of our local community college about setting up a class to study basic English. The class was to made up of Saudi/Muslim wives of students. They would pay out of state tuition for this class. While in the process of setting up the course, the arrogant Saudi student demanded that a woman instructor be hired to teach the class...no male instructors were to be considered. The administrator, a man, insisted that gender would not be a consideration in the hiring process. The Saudi left whining, but that was the end of the class for wives. They push their "culture" whenever and wherever they think that they can get away with it.
F**k 'em, f**k 'em all.
Yet, I digress and having re-read the above introductory statement, I believe my anger toward the political correctness that seems to permeate our present culture has come to the floor. Either that...or the couple of Rolling Rocks I decided to consume prior to checking out your site. Having recently ended another deployment, it's refreshing to renew my appreciation of your efforts in adding another layer of awareness as to "how the real world works". Will keep in contact periodically.
Interested,
I'm not sure about the "van" issue. While indeed, your average Caliphate may recognize the value of a van, the utility of your standard Toyota pick-up is much more in vogue in keeping with the ease and overall fuel economy of your average terrorist, asymmetrical warfare being somewhat now more expensive with rising fuel costs and various embargos...please note that pickups are very much in vogue in Afghanistan.
However, based upon the movie "Back to the Future" (the original, by the way), those Libyan terrorists did have a VW van in keeping with your comment but it wasn't nearly as controllable especially when dealing with the Delorean. Although, in hindsight, I suppose that a terrorist has a slightly easier base of fire in a VW van versus that annoying rolling around in the back of a pick-up....even though, I can recall some quite exciting rolling around in my younger years in the back of a Ford with a particular blonde...yet, once again I digess and will now forever swear off Rolling Rocks as they seem to make me not only more militant but really, really desirous of a blonde in the back of a Ford pic....ummm, never mind.
Jim
This makes me so effing mad.
Jim, Interested may have been thinking of the English phenomenon of "white van man" a particularly inconsiderate type of driver, usually a builder or plumber driving a van, always white, frequently a Ford transit.
I don't know abut Jim's blonde companion, I do remember one night after a friend's band's gig the police stopped their beat up transit in the middle of Cheapside to inspect the contents in the back and found 1 drum kit, 3 guitar and bass stacks, quite a lot of ironmongery, 3 road crew, 2 guitarists (the drummer was in the front with the singer who was driving) numerous girlfriends and relatives including me. All thrown out to catch the last tube - just.
The other kind of van which might just be halal is the Turkish swimming Van cat. A very fluffy creature from the shores of Lake Van. Meow.
Why can't these paragons of human purity and advanced evolution establish their own universities to teach courses other than Islamic studies? They can certainly afford them. We shouldn't allow these malevolent hypocrites to get near our universities; let them remain illiterate and intellectually bankrupt. Why temper their medieval mentalities with enough modern knowledge to come back and bite us?
I certainly hope their pious sensitivities were not compromised while they leeched knowledge from an infidel university. How much more of this double standard insanity must we tolerate from the reprehensible Saudis?
"You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."
Sir Charles Napier, Commander-in-Chief, India (1849 to 1851).
What's the big? The bastards probably paid through their noses. Virginia Tech gets more money for un-Islamic activities :)
"While indeed, your average Caliphate may recognize the value of a van, the utility of your standard Toyota pick-up is much more in vogue in keeping with the ease and overall fuel economy of your average terrorist, asymmetrical warfare being somewhat now more expensive with rising fuel costs and various embargos...please note that pickups are very much in vogue in Afghanistan."
Note that they have been known to use the small "Pajero" SUV in Afghanistan. What they probably do not know is that in some Latin American countries, such as Chile and Peru, "Pajero" means "Jerk off." Very fitting in their case!
Don Miguel,
Strangely enough, I'm needing to know this...the word "pajero" I am assuming is the noun? If so, what is the infinitive?
Interested,
You questioned whether or not Mohammed was partial to a little "you know what". Why, you naughty, naughty little infidel! And now that the subject of that blonde has come up (in a matter of speaking)---What? How, Jim? (don't ask)----, I have fully appreciated the somewhat meandering attention to bits of trivia related to my previous coments and my main question is whether or not Kevin Bacon can be tied into any part of this. I have now fully realized that I need to swear off those damn Rolling Rocks. Blondes, on the other hand, are another matter but with all the problems I've had with blondes in the past, perhaps I will need to swear them off as well....but this will imply another little saga, my friends.
Carolyn2,
Actually, it would be quite impractical for a camel to be riding in the back. They tend to get a little wobbly especially going around those sharp turns. In retrospect, the blonde that I had mentioned was quite wobbly at the time as well---no part due to the mass quantity of Tequila we both consumed---although, curiously as I recall, she liked being tied down too.
Jim
Jim - what I meant to say was that Mohammed liked cats and was no lover of dogs. The post arose from a reference to the delectable Van cats of Eastern Turkey, which I've seen at first hand.
My comment appears to have been deleted, perhaps because someone saw an unintentional double entendre and thought they'd better whip it out before things got out of hand.
I'd like to make it clear that I think that double entendres are despicable, and if anyone gives me one, I run a mile.
Moreover, Islam is no laughing matter. Any sniggering and chortling on my part is just 'laughter through tears' as I contemplate the greatness of the Prophet.
'There is no fun in Islam', said Khomeini, and who are we to argue?
Interested, mine is gone too. I sure don't know what I said wrong. The mention of camels riding in the back of pickup trucks is a factual statement, National Geographic has run pictures of it.
Interested and Carolyn2,
I'm not too thrilled either about your deletions for by doing so, the "editor" by doing such mischief has essentially created even more of an incoherent rambling of my postings.
Interested--- I'm an Army guy and I too am disgusted with those nasty, naughty afflictions upon the English language herewith now known as double entendres, which, in retrospect is partially French...."Oh, Tish...that was French".."Oui"---however, whether or not any previous experienced relations with particular blondes and cursory acknowledgment of French expression...which, by the way, better not be miscontrued as an additional double entendre especially when one can argue that the expression "to French" could, in theory, embody...oops...not body, I mean, curvaceous...I mean...incorporate...yes, yes, IBM....capitalism, what a turn on...I mean, the basic supply and demand curve, if one looks at it...umm, there's that word again---"curve"---damn it, I'm sticking with redheads!!! F**k the French---blondes---whatever!!!!!
--Jim
Oh..and Carolyn!
Indeed, I also have seen pics of camels in the back of pick-up trucks----but, I'll be damned if National Geographic ever shows blondes in the back of a truck. And to prove I am not sexist, I would offer that they'll never show a bunch of blond guys in a truck either. Although, that idea sort of reminds of a joke----
Jim
Jim - I've got a few days off and have gone nocturnal. You're probably American, but here in the UK it's the middle of the night. I'm spending a merry few hours hopping about from one website to the other and dropping a little joke or a pun.
But the French, and if you're not British, you have to understand the friendly hatred that is essential to stable relations between our two countries, think they can do better than jokes and puns. They've got double entendres, esprit, mots justes, panache, esprit d'escalier, élan, éclat, je ne sais quoi and a whole lot more.
But we've got Nelson's column, and it's massive, and it's because we won! So there!
Interested,
Yes, I'm American albeit born in France. Now this little, teensy eensy bit about Nelson's column and how massive it is.....you decadently nasty young Brit.
Yeah...go ahead, delete this one!!!!!
As Susanp notes:
"Why can't these paragons of human purity and advanced evolution establish their own universities to teach courses other than Islamic studies? They can certainly afford them."
It might have been cheaper for the VT staff to have traveled to the Weird Kingdom to train those 60 students.
They could have been nicely compensated for their efforts, and it would have been a lot less controversial, too.
I think that VT's highly paid administrators should have figured this out all by themselves.
IF YOU CAN'T DO IT AMERICAN STYLE THEN DON'T COME OVER HERE!!!
SHAME SHAME SHAME VA.
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEIVED BY THEM AMEN
I seem to have missed something here.
Knowing that Interested, like myself, is owned by 2 cats I thought that reference would be of interest.
Interested, if the comments board is closed next week do you think that we and Zico and Dafferds should arrange to exchange e-mail addresses somehow? Susan used to arrange this but I don't know if she is still willing to do so.
Granny W - yes. I know Zico's. You and Dafferds could send your emails to my temporary one which, for varous reasons is katypeculiar@hotmail.com and I'll send them on.
Interested,
Seems that one of my comments had also got deleted, dealing with Nelson's column and its massiveness....now how double entendre could that one have been?? Oh well.....
Jim
Interested
Done.
Daffersd
Are you out there? If you see these posts please reply.
Fellow Brits
Please count me in on any e-mailings; I've sent my address to Interested.
Thanks!
JC - Rock on!
Sorry KC not awake yet.