Gaza pullout far from enough for peace: Abbas

The "Sudetenland"....great comparison....Next they will want all of Czechoslavakia (i.e. Israel).
"Appeasement only makes the agressor more agressive"-Dean Atchison. (October, 1961). My personal opinion is that the Gaza strip is going to become a terrorist haven, with targets that are better for jihadis than American soldiers..."Jews". Ben Gurion Airport is within stinger range of Gaza. This is not going to be pretty. I expect that the terrorists actions against Israel will increase, and of course Israel will retaliate.....and the cycle continues....Thank for letting me rant.

The "Sudetenland"....great comparison....Next they will want all of Czechoslavakia (i.e. Israel).
"Appeasement only makes the agressor more agressive"-Dean Atchison. (October, 1961). My personal opinion is that the Gaza strip is going to become a terrorist haven, with targets that are better for jihadis than American soldiers..."Jews". Ben Gurion Airport is within stinger range of Gaza. This is not going to be pretty. I expect that the terrorists actions against Israel will increase, and of course Israel will retaliate.....and the cycle continues....Thank for letting me rant.

"...from all our land."

yup, "I bring you peace in our time"

Despite the historic view of old Neville, I've seen references to the possibility that his signing of the Munich Pact was a delaying tactic to buy time for Britian to militarize.

Could Sharon have ulterior motives? Strategically, it seems that leaving the Gaza doesn't put them in a worse position. The border between Isreal and Gaza seems relatively short and defensable, less vulnerability than the island/settlements in a sea of hostility. The ability to launch strikes from Gaza is balanced by the superior Isreali abilities of monitoring activities, intelligence technologies, and military capabilities. Add a friendly-free field of fire and the reduced force requirements of security(short new border vs many isolated settlements) freeing up forces for redeloyment elsewhere.
I am sure the pull-out sticks in the Isreali throat like a fishbone, but could it possibly be a sound decision.

From the Internet Haganah

Israel still exists, therefore Israel is not doing enough.

Isn't it about time for Abbas to dismantle the terrorist organisations and make this an official priority for months to come? Israel pulled out on its own accord, yet Abbas keeps demanding. I can't say this is a particularly fair development.

Jan;
you labor under the delusion that both parties act in good faith.

My head will explode the day the Palestinians say, "OK, Isreal has done enough"

t-ham posted:Despite the historic view of old Neville, I've seen references to the possibility that his signing of the Munich Pact was a delaying tactic to buy time for Britian to militarize.

I think so too. It was afterall Chamberlain who served Germany, the superpower of the day, with a tough ultimatum of 24 hours, and then declared war on Germany.

From View friom the Right.

The massacre of the Banu Qurayzah

Below is the cover of Andrew Bostom’s soon to be published Legacy of Jihad. I’ve briefly discussed once before this remarkable 19th century Persian illustration, which Dr. Bostom discovered in the catalogue of Persian manuscripts in the British Museum.

http://www.amnation.com/vfr/

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CGW

The paleos have told the world what they want from the beginning, the world just refuses to believe what they hear.

The tearful, tragic separation of Jews from their homes with resistance, with a struggle, but without any bloodshed, only grief, sounds an enormous contrast between the heart of Judaism, and the heart of Islam: could a similar removal of Muslims from their homes anywhere in the world occur without bloodshed, violent jihad, indiscriminate mass murder, and screams of victimization, genocide or what have you? Is there a single instance of a Muslim society bordering a non-Muslim society where violence and aggression do not exist?

Folks confused and dazzled by the complexity of the 'conflict' between so-called 'Palestinians' and Jews should just watch the Gaza pullout and contemplate the simplicity of what they see: Jewish grief, human loss, as opposed to the Islamic denial of grief in hate, bloodlust, fatalism, and religiously motivated violence.

For some the truth can only become transparent in gross injustice.

We should set up a IRC channel.

t-ham said "Add a friendly-free field of fire..."

I have heard this sentiment many times: once Israel withdraws from Gaza (and the West Bank and Jerusalem and ...), when terrorists strike again then Israel will finally be free to respond militarily.

Let's see what happens. I'll bet my last sheckel that the world will continue to focus all its attention on any accidental "Palestinian" civilian casualties resulting from Israeli strikes. Attention to Israeli women and children killed deliberately by "Palestinian" missiles and bombers will continue to be ignored. At best, the media will count the number of dead "Palestinian" jihadists, and the number of dead Israeli unarmed citizens, and publish those two numbers with no reference to what they refer to. For example, "Two Palestinians and 4 Israelis were killed today in action ..."

from the abc newswire:

"Yet a third militant group, Hamas, boasted on its Web site that it has killed more Israelis in more Gaza attacks than any of its rivals and that it alone deserves credit for Israel's historic pullout from the Mediterranean strip."

54%, or so they claim. Hamas staking it's claim. Sounds like there will be quite a bit of jostling for control of the abandoned areas....hamas, pa, fatah, hope it doesn't come down to violence! (hee-hee)

DP111 linked an article with the following quote about Iraq:

"The legal guarantees of liberty and equality represent the goal towards which the country is moving, rather than the expression of the present thoughts and wishes of the population. The movement, however, is in the right direction, and it may yet prove possible for Islam to disentangle religious faith from political status and privilege."

This could be a statement straight out of the U.S. State Department in 2005. I can easily imagine Bush or Rice saying these same exact words.

But they are from a British official in Iraq in 1935. I guess the movement towards liberty and equality is a little slow, but we're getting there, just be patient, stay the course...

"Hamas, boasted on its Web site that it has killed more Israelis..."

Now that's a model of democracy that Islam could accept. Whichever group kills the most Jews wins the election and takes power. Marvelous. I'm so glad my tax dollars will be going to support the "Palestinians" and their "democracy".

Well, technically yes, but don't forget that the Jews eliminated yassin and rantisi, so that should entitle them to a partial rebate, right?

T-ham: strategically, leaving Gaza does put Israel in a worse position. Sharon's response to those in the military at high levels who pointed this out was to see that they were eliminated or silenced. He has recently lost what credibility he had and I may point out that he ignored his own Likud party mandate, ignored Israeli law, ignored the practices of the Knesset, reversed his political platform, fired ministers to engineer a vote, broken many agreements in the Knesset (of course, he could not have done this without support from various factions)...the more principled members of the Knesset are openly against him. MK Uzi Landau has recently gone to the Shomron (Samaria) to urge strong confrontation when the government comes to dismantle these towns. Many IDF soldiers have refused to participate. I just read a declaration of Jewish Law signed by over 200 of the most prominent rabbis in Israel (including worldwide authorities), such as former Chief Rabbis of Israel, the chief Rabbi of Haifa, Chief Rabbis of Israel's Supreme Rabbinical Court stating that it is forbidden to give land to the Arabs (in a war situation which essentially exists), in part (brackets mine):

"Many ask: 'is it Halachically [legally--halacha= Jewish law] permissible to surrender territories for peace?"

in our opinion, this question is misleading. If it is asked with all sincerity than it should be rephrased to read: "Is it permissible to jeopardize the Jews residing in Israel, to place them in a situation of Pikuach Nefesh [endangering Jewish lives], by handing over border towns to the Arabs, and receive in return (at the best…) a piece of paper?!!" As we now, unfortunately, witness, the mere negotiations on transferring settlements to the Arabs have encouraged the terrorists to intensify their attacks against Jews, in every part of Israel. It is frightening to just think what will happen (G-D forbid) if the government hands over those border towns.

The Torah which is a Toras Chaim (a Torah of life) provides the answers to every question that can arise in daily life, and it certainly has an answer to such a fateful questions which affects millions of Jews. The unequivocal ruling in the Shulchan Aruch [major code of Jewish law]is resoundingly clear: it lights up the way and guides us how to act in this case according to Torah. The ruling is that IT IS FORBIDDEN, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, TO HAND OVEER PARTS OF ISRAEL TO THE ARABS."

Full text at: http://www.southhead.org/news/gushkatif.htm

Typically, and as trained, orthodox rabbis do not make rulings in areas that they are personally unfamiliar with through experience (such as military issues) without examining them closely, speaking with experts, etc. So no one is shooting from the hip here.

Large numbers of the Israeli people (including those not overtly religious and non-religious)) did not want a "Palestinian" state, and did not want to give up any land which Israel has won back. Other large numbers are disturbed at seeing how the Jewish residents of Gaza have been evicted.

Also, to restate the obvious: Abu Mazen (Abbas) is a criminal. Dress him up in a suit and he's still a criminal in a suit. Hamas means violence. They're a gang of thugs. Hopefully, there will soon be a new government in israel which will not give them anything more and perhaps will take back what so foolishly has been given away. Enough said.

As I understand it the pullout was necessary if Israel is to remain Israel. Since there are over 1 million Palestinian Arabs it wouldn't have been too long before the Arabs outnumbered the Israelis in the voting polls. Israel either had to pull out, be out voted by Muslim Palestinians and lose control of their government, or revert to some kind of Apartheid state where Muslims would not be allowed to vote. They chose to retain control of their government and give up some land for the time being. It will all work out in the end. Israel has tougher days ahead of her, but in the end God will be victorious. Just read the Bible, it's all in there.

Kind of related, what has happened recently that has taken 1600 years to become a reality? Heads-up Christians and Jews.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=42898
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=70349

No, Bohemond, there are only about 12 Arab Knesset members in a group of 120 Knesset members right now. And no, Muslims are not about to lose their vote in Israel any more than in the US. That's not what's going on. However, what is going on militarily is that Zarkawi, aided by "Pali" groups, is trying to move in. This whole action of withdrawal has got to be reveresed. See Debka file:

http://www.debka.org/article.php?aid=1075

" At an urgent weekend consultation, US, British, Egyptian, Jordanian and Israeli intelligence and counter-terror officials concluded that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi’s terror teams now pose an imminent threat to Israel. The Katyusha rocket which landed harmlessly near Israel’s Eilat airport across from Jordanian Aqaba on Friday, Aug 19, was not a stray from the volley aimed at the two US naval vessels docked in the Jordanian Red Sea port. It was Zarqawi’s first direct attack against Israel and it was aimed at its southernmost airport. The fact that the rocket missed its target was neither here nor there according to their common assessment....

But al Qaeda’s threat to reach Tel Aviv after the rocket attacks last Friday came through loud and clear. It is hard to wave away the strong Palestinian element in the Abdullah Azzam Brigades which staged that attack, a branch of the same terrorist organization as the Jihad Brigades of the Border Districts."

The idea that Jews need to be expelled by force for there to be a "Palestinian" State is proof that the "Palestinians" should not have a State.

-MZ

Malach (and Bohemond):

The one million Palestinians would be a reference to the number living within the Green Line. I believe Gaza alone is home to over 1.5 million Palestinians and was, until a few days ago home to about 9,000 to 10,000 Jews.