From the Daily Times, with thanks to all who sent this in:
CANBERRA: Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia, as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown.
Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state and its laws were made by parliament.
“If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you,” he said on national television. “I’d be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia, one the Australian law and another the Islamic law, that that is false. If you can’t agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country which practises it, perhaps, then, that’s a better option,” Costello said.
All well and good. But what will become of Australia... and the UK... and the US once Muslim numbers reach critical mass? What happens when they become a large, lobbying and voting bloc in Western nations? Will politicians continue to draw the line or will there be accommodations made to Sharia, like allowing Muslim clerics to "mediate" family disputes? Sadly, I think the latter will more closely resemble out future.
I am coming to the conclusion that the running of the "War on Terror" should be handed over to the Australians.
Straight talking, straight viewpoint, straight action.
Boy, did England lose out when we shipped Costello's ancestors off....
“If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you,” he said on national television. “I’d be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia, one the Australian law and another the Islamic law, that that is false. If you can’t agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country which practises it, perhaps, then, that’s a better option,” Costello said."
Reading this is like a taking a breath of fresh air...Nice to see SOMEONE willing to stand up and say it.
Moose
Yes, I read this somewhere else. A person commented with something like "I wonder what would happen to a British politician if they said the same". I am so glad someone said it but why isn't anyone saying the same over here. We are supposed to not only tolerate but completely accept people who want to bring Sharia law into this country. This is completely unnacceptable. As far as I am concerned, anyone who wants this to happen needs to leave the country right now. It goes against everything we have fought for. But now people are so afraid of offending other groups. These people are quite happy to critise the way our country is, which is fine, but they don't seem to realise they won't have that same kind of freedom to do just that under Sharia law. People will have no rights.
Well, today Britain [and Australia...] shut-down the reactionair" Hizb-ut-Tahir" website, [they want a Caliphate], the goverment announced it last week and I thought it was pure 'big talk', but they really did it..
Hizb-ut-Tahir. uk:
http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.org/english/english.html
And this site was related, but is now under re-construction.
Islamic Thinkers:
http://www.islamicthinkers.com/index/index.php
Mr. Costello has been on a roll this week!
"If you don't like those values, then don't come here. Australia is not for you," Mr Costello said yesterday. "This is the way I look at it: Australia is a secular society, with parliamentary law, part of the Western tradition of individual rights."
"If you are looking for a country that practises theocracy, sharia law -- which is anti-Western -- there are those countries in the world ... you will be happy there. But you won't be happy in Australia."
Yesterday he said: "I have seen people that say they believe in sharia law and theocracy. If that's their view, don't come to this country. This one is not for you. I don't think we can afford to be ambivalent about this point to young people or anyone else."
Earlier this month, the Treasurer said the notion that terrorists secured a reward in the afterlife for waging jihad against Westerners was "repulsive".
Australian leaders have been doing their homework. I just hope that GWB and Tony Blair can catch up.
India could learn a lesson from this about exactly is a secular state. It is a shame that India claims to be a secular state and yet recognises and allows sharia law to be enacted.
And yet when Hindus bitch and fight against the Sharia law being used in India, they are then reffered to as "Enemies of Democracy and Secualrism". It is India, the Congress Party, and all pseudo-secularists who are the enemies of democracy and secualr values. Shame on India. It could learn a lot from this article alone.
How could any Australian possibly dispute or criticize Costellos points noted above; for he is clearly defending Australias governing foundations that should be rooted in concrete without concessions to a religion that is seeded in its own totalitarian governing laws (sharia). It simply cannot belong in a country with its already established laws.
One even wonders why Canada even gave it any consideration in the first place as fundamental Muslims tried to introduce it for domestic, and business disputes. No! that is clearly allowing a foot in the door. There should be no concessions, or compromises to established laws that are the concrete that hold western countries together. To do so would, and should constitute a traiterous act.
To The Mooster, Albion et al.
As much as I wish I could agree with you guys, the reality here in Oz is a little diferent. Essentially, we are as blind as any.
Costello's comments are better than nothing I suppose, but are as meaningless as the "tough talk" of Princess Tony & the Clown Prince Clarke exposed by Albion today at Jihad Watch (comments on "I am ready to fight, says cleric in Clarke's sights").
Unfortunately, the real story here is illustrated more accurately by the following examples.
1. Government funded bodies such as the Human Rights and Equal Opportunities Commission:
"Eliminating prejudice against Arab or Muslim Australians" @
www.hreoc.gov.au/racial_discrimination/isma/report/chap4.html
2. Idiots like the Minister for Multicultural Affairs, John Cobb:
"Govt flags media training for Islamic leaders" @
www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200508/s1444607.htm
3. "Home Grown" muslims such as these (this is something that I imagine will cause considerable anguish to many):
"Young Muslims choose Sept 11 for day of action" @
www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200508/s1444840.htm
It never ceases to amaze me that a group comprising only 300 000 persons (approximately) out of 20 million (approximately) take up so much of what might be referred to as "national time".
Unfortunately, we in Australia are immersing ourselves into the slow boiling pot of water as enthusiastically as the rest of the frogs!
"diferent"?
Nor can we spell!
Anthony-
Shhhh....
I want to pass these comments on to MY politicians.
Maybe if they see these remarks from your government, they too will grow a spine.
They don't have to know the awful truth....:)
FFI is back
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30
Saw the Interview on ABC LateLine,Costello seems a bit of a hard nut,during the interview,he repeated,Not once but at least 5 times.At first I could not believe what I was hearing,so there is no way of mistaking that he said.
"This is the way I look at it: Australia is a secular society, with parliamentary law, part of the Western tradition of individual rights." "If you are looking for a country that practises theocracy, sharia law -- which is anti-Western -- there are those countries in the world ... you will be happy there. But you won't be happy in Australia."
Could we send Blair et al over to Australia for a few lessons in straight talking, instead of having all these meetings grovelling to the likes of Iqbal Sacranie, who would love to institute Sharia law in the UK given half a chance.
I think one of the greatest weapons against the Sharia law is the International Bill of Human Rights. Here is a site with a short history of the IBHR.
In keeping with that here is an excellent article on women's suffrage.
f.g.
This is GREAT NEWS! Now George Bush and other US politicians needs to come clean, stop holding hands with terror Kings, stop calling Islam a "religion of peace," and tell the Islamists and the jihadis polluting our land to leave America NOW -- we must expel anyone who has the slightest tinge of promoting a supremacist Islam -- If Muslims aren't able to place the US Constitution above their so-called laws of Allah -- then they MUST LEAVE our shores too! Yesterday wouldn't be soon enough for me!
Islamic Thinkers Society
We are sorry. Our website is down for maintenance. Please bare with us. We will be back soon insha'Allah.
I thought that was haram!
I am so glad someone said it but why isn't anyone saying the same over here.
Some politician or other did fairly recently. It was the shadow spokesman for something or other and it was reported in some Scottish newspaper or other.
Sorry to be so numb and vague.
It is good to hear some straight talk here in the West. 'All praise be' to the Australians for having the balls to stand up for what THEY believe in, and having the balls to tell these troublemakers where to get off.
The Australians are famous for their straight talk: they are not given to beating about the bush!
It's a great, great pity that we don't have politicians here in the United Kingdom - and for that matter, there in the US - with enough balls to stand up and say the same thing! All we have in the UK are prissy little pansies: apologists for Islam, and apologists for the male species, too!
Our politicians have yet to come to the realisation that this is a REAL war - a war that will have to be fought to the death!
We should disinfect the West! We should cut out the cancer within! We should stop the metastasis! Now! Before it's too late!
The West is OUR civilisation; and sane people don't want it destroyed by this backward cult, this apology for a religion, this fascism posing as divine inspiration, this totalitarianism with roots in Bedouin tradition and desert sand!
Long live freedom! Long live democracy!
Carolyn2,
On the Islamic Thinking Society and the use of bare instead of bear ...
I thought that was haram!
It is and apparently so is thinking.
f.g.
The site's I mentioned above are working again ....... !!??
rotterdam:
I'm sure the Islamists are savvy enough to have their own "business recovery" plans and many willing hosts lined up and willing to help them out.
Ghorkali:
Not that this is of any comfort, but I'm sure it's a lot easier for Australia to say no to Sharia than it is for India based on demographics.
Very encouraging. At least SOME Western nation is not suicidal. (From Down Under shall come forth our salvation?)
Perhaps he only said that to take attention away from the Ashes? ;-) Sorry, couldn't resist.
We've definitely got a way to go before Tony is going to make such a statement: courting the MCB has led the establishment to think they can't hold on to inner city Muslim dominated seats without the MCB and its affiliates. The truth is maybe the majority would respect such a stand more than the Dhimmitude they get now.
Mark 2:11 pm. BRAVO WELL SAID
The only point I have to add is to think of WW II and what was then called the Fifth Column.
We all have a Fifth Column in our countries today. Sympathizers, sleepers, activists, PR flacks. It is all there now.
Awhile back I offended a Australian on a internet forum when I backed their attack on P.M. Howrard with my reference to Botany Bay and the
penal colony mentality .
Well , I stand corrected and take back the insult . If a century or two of evolution among thugs produces a sensitive responsible adult that still has the survival instinct in their DNA and
can spot a threat and act to neutralize it rather that RE-ACT after the crime as our spineless weasel politicians do , then that's jake with me and again I stand corrected on my view of the Aussie's.
I only regret that I can't be there to enjoy the cool "Throat-charmers" and they toss a few Jihadists on the Bahhrbeee.
G'day mate
Awhile back I offended a Australian on a internet forum when I backed their attack on P.M. Howrard with my reference to Botany Bay and the
penal colony mentality .
Well , I stand corrected and take back the insult . If a century or two of evolution among thugs produces a sensitive responsible adult that still has the survival instinct in their DNA and
can spot a threat and act to neutralize it rather that RE-ACT after the crime as our spineless weasel politicians do , then that's jake with me and again I stand corrected on my view of the Aussie's.
I only regret that I can't be there to enjoy the cool "Throat-charmers" and they toss a few Jihadists on the Bahhrbeee.
G'day mate
If anything makes the Islamicists hopping mad Down Under, I'm all for it.
Tie me jihadists down, sport!
Then ship the bunch back to Mecca.
(I hear empty, plugged-shut Foster's Lager cans make superative raft floats, and the sea route followed home by Ibn Battuta should suffice.)
http://www.ummah.net/history/scholars/ibn_battuta/
Mark: ”It's a great, great pity that we don't have politicians here in the United Kingdom - and for that matter, there in the US - with enough balls to stand up and say the same thing! All we have in the UK are prissy little pansies: apologists for Islam, …!”
We have politicians we deserve. After all, these few “prissy little pansies” were elected by many millions “prissy little pansies” whose fear of being confused with those rude BNP characters is far greater than ending as dumb frogs slowly boiled in the pot of Islam.
Yes, I'm afraid you're right, thomas.h: we really do get the politicians we deserve. The trouble is this: when the game's over and it will be too late to change anything, people will be scratching their heads and askng themselves: "Where did we go wrong?" " What did we do to deserve this Islamic crap?"
Ala-Sux - "my reference to Botany Bay and the
penal colony mentality "
Thats definitely the way to offend most Australians. Most of us are NOT descended from convicts (population of Australia = 20 million ; number of people transported = 160,000, ceasing in the 1800s). Convicts and debtors were also transported to the US, but somehow nobody accuses Americans of having a criminal mentality.
My family came here as free settlers long after transportation ceased. An early governor of NSW sent all freed convicts and their families to live in the west of Sydney, to separate them from those without convict blood - although many people were transported for political crimes - like belonging to the early IRA, or in the case of the English and Welsh, for starting trade unions and belonging to 'subversive organisations' like the Daughters of Rebecca.
Prissy little pansys seem to be in charge everywhere in western countrys. They seem to be clones of each other in the respect that they act in concert, to soften, or prevent, any criticism of Islam. It's almost like Geo and Tony are muslim converts and only do enough tough talk and actions to hide it. Rice is either already a dhimmi, has no idea what she is talking about, not as bright as we first thought, or all of the above. The bottom line is Islamic world domination. They come right out and say these things, they act on them, and the prissy little 'girlie men', act like they didn't notice...or start making up Islamic acceptable rationalisations. Good for Costello, maybe he's breaking the ice and others will follow...
I've never voted for the Liberal Party in my entire life, but if Peter Costello becomes it's leader then I might just do so.
satya mew jayte(truth alone truimphs)is a famous eternal teaching of Sanskrit, an ancient Indian language.Australia has taken a lead by telling the truth that evil ideology of Islam has no place in a modern democratic and secular society.Everywhere in the world, including western societies people believe to live as a good human being,they do not bother to know about the evils.Now time has come that every citizen of the freeworld should be encouraged to know about the real Islam which is nothing but 7th. century Arab tribal barbarism. It has no place in democratic secular world. it should be fought both ideologically as well by military might when necessary.
Finally, some anti-dhimmituders!
To all you Aussies out their: send in your written support of these politicians - REGARDLESS of which party you vote for. Its easy to send them an email. Tell them THANKYOU. I mean, imagine all the hate and pressure these guys would be under right now for speaking the truth. I have already written to my local (liberal), saying how I would even vote for the Looney Left if they treated Islam like the Nazi Party (and he knows I'm very right wing).
Yes there are many gov't agencies which get gov't funding, and are nothing more than branches of the Labor/Green/Democrat parties. I think people know this, which is why they were crushed at the last election. The infection of the left runs deep in this country's institutions.
But when the country’s leaders speak, it stirs up the people, more so than if some "nobody" said it. While as an Aussie, I cannot wait to see some action on stemming the Islamic tide here, words from our leaders are a good start.
To tackle evil, one first has to acknowledge what it is. Maybe our pollies are just starting.
Another politician to watch out for is Brendan Nelson, the minister for education.
He's the one who said that if muslims don't like it here then they should clear off, and go live somewhere else.
Aussies are playing good cricket with Sharia. The main trouble is that Sharia doesn't like to play cricket. Soon,. Mr. Costello shall have to play the Jihad game, as Muslims after reaching a critical mass in Aussieland, shall certainly raise the call for Jihad if Sharia rules are not implemented in their version of the cricket game.
Hi Voltaire!
Good to know that Brendan Nelson is with us.
I saw Tony Abbott on a talk show this morning and wasn't at all impressed. What a weasel! Ducking every issue, sliming himself out of everything!
There was nothing he would take a stand on, I was sooo disappointed!
I don't know the guy that well, but I used to judge him differently.
To Mark:.
I guess that while I am deeply sympathetic to the 7/7 and 7/21 London bombings, I think the Brits had it coming.
The British government's policy was essentially very racist. They allowed Muslim migrants from Pakistan, India and Bangladesh to migrate in order to account for the cheap labor. However, they (MUslim migrants) were isolated from the main British society. The movie, " The East is East and West is West" starring the Indian actor Om Puri as a Pakistani Muslim migrant, and his daughter played by Archie (Archana) Panjabi, shows the isolation.
While the British society exhibits a tight-upper-lipped snobbery, they also have their mix of liberal howlers. For example, when Islamic militants from Pakistan were butchering Hindus in Kashmir (and continue to do so today), the Amnesty International (with headquarters in London) continued to cry hoarse about Indian Govt's "human rights violations" of these "prisoners of conscience", the latter being the Quran-thumping, AK-47 wielding, bearded mullahs, all jolly well trained to decapitate the Hindus (Kashmiri Pandits). Indian Govt. hadtaken a lot of flak and the British Foreign ministers in their flights to the former East Indian colony regularly lectured and chastised their former subjects over observing the human rights of these jihadists. They shamelessly quoted facts straight out of the biased and speculative annualhuman rights reports published by Amnesty International. During those times when some right-leaning (aka Hindu) political parties (such as the BJP and Shiv Sena) pointed out the lack of respect of the human rights of the Kashmiri Hindu pandits, these British politicians could not hide their hypocrisy. These Brits. simply brushed aside the plight of these Hindus. One of them even went to the extent to state that India was fabricating the Kashmiri Hindu situation to win favors.
Now when I see a British national voicing concern over the growth of Islamic radicalism, and wishing that Muslims be kept under control, or, lamenting that the UK politicains are meek and mild, I begin to think that India should have laught last: how does it feel when the shoe is on the other foot ?
There is a Freudian slip in my last post to Mark.
The first sentence should read:
While I am deeply sympathetic to the victims of the 7/7 and 7/21 London bombings,....
The slip is regretted.
But, otherwise the contents of my last post looks OK (to me).
Mo from Oz:
http://rds.yahoo.com/S=53720272/K=brendan+nelson/v=2/SID=w/l=NSR/R=1/SIG=1200cr5rm/EXP=1125290978/*-http%3A//au.news.yahoo.com/050828/21/vowd.html
http://au.news.yahoo.com/050828/2/vowm.html
http://rds.yahoo.com/S=53720272/K=brendan+nelson/v=2/SID=w/l=NSR/R=7/SIG=13b54lpil/EXP=1125290978/*-http%3A//www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,16378782%255E1702,00.html
As an Aussie - I am over the moon with the current government's stand on Islamic extremism. Needless to say the same goes for Kim Beazley who is in full agreement.
Such commonly held views is not only good for the immediate - it stands in the way of an Al Qaeda attack per Spanish variety - deliberately timed to trigger a party change.
Having said that - I believe those postings from USA and UK lamenting the lack of similarly voiced sentiments, are doing themselves a grave historical injustice - USA had Franklin Roosevelt and UK had Winston Churchill.
In fact Churchill had a proven record of warning us many times about the long term danger of Islam - it is only in recent years that we have come to fully realise the dangers of it.
Another point - I emmigrated to Australia in 1964, simply because the laid back approach and the calling of a spade as a spade suited me more than the (then) still strong class system that I fell foul of several times whilst passing through an Engineering Apprenticeship (in a USA company with an English subsidary - WITH a mix of English and American management - no details - too long - but OH BOY - WHAT a contrast !!).
I like to call a spade a spade - better than the British "earth moving impliment" but a tad better than many Aussies who may say shovel !!
So - choosing one's country of destination is indeed a valid way to achieve the balance you are looking for - there again - I am not a Muslim (Christian actually - and since learning more about Islam - I am NOW a ZIONIST Christian - with full expectations of Biblical End-Times being brought to fruition).
The problem in Islam is not merely being a total and usually a TOTALITARIAN system but that it is seen as ELITIST (Muslims better than none Muslims) and have an Allah given right - AND goal to dominate the world - to the exclusion of all else - not a concept which is conducive to peace at ANY time - as proven over a 1,400 yr (approx) violent history.
We do not even have the luxury that Christianity went through - 100's of years to evolve from a violent and shameful history - to what we have now.
No time - simply because WMD's changes the time scale - we HAVE no luxury of time. First WMD to be used (excluding the propaganda used by Muslims of USA and Japan) WILL BE ISLAMIC - we CANNOT do otherwise than retaliate and then perhaps head for far worse (obliterate - but of course THAT is not a PC thing to say).
So - back to Aussie land.
We are indeed a lucky country (not necessarily agreed to by the Aboriginal community) as we are very laid back, take very little seriously - except our habit of knocking down tall poppies (usually the Politicians). Don't knock or CRICKET - that IS below the belt - anyway - we prefer to let the English win OCCASIONALLY - don't want them too humilited (by a penal colony) !!
We are lucky because things take time to impact on us here - we have the luxury of observing our mother country (UK - in case you Yankies did not know !!) and of course observing good old US of A.
Both countries are at the unenviable forefront of world action and worldly politics. Never ever would we be mistaken as the world's super power - USA holds that position BAR NONE - GREAT - say the Americans - BUT - it means that you are also the target for all that is evil too (no names - no pack drill - but they are the so called "Religion of Peace").
Like it - lump it - we are indeed in the 100 yrs war - and have been for at least 10 years.
To ME, a 100 yrs war is conservative - assuming that Biblical End-Times are not imminent - which I believe they ARE.
The voice of EVIL is not merely in the Western freedom loving democratic countries - it is in very inaccessible Islamic countries in their Madrassas - THAT is the problem with the 100 yrs (merely 5 generations) it will indeed take many many generations to rid ourselves of the evil retoric (which is embedded in the "in-errant" Koran).
Thus - we are the lucky country - we see what has been happening in USA and UK - plus of course other western countries - BUT - we HAVE been attacked too - Bali - not our home territory (that WILL come) - but STILL an attack on Australia, as Bali is (was ?) our favourite holiday destination.
Again - not PC - but our northern neighbours happen to be THE biggest Islamic country on earth - but (Thank God - literally) it is NOT Saudi Arabia - or Iran - or ..... (where do I stop ?).
Winston Churchill ROLE OVER and take a bow - your words of wisdom come and haunt us now - YOU WERE RIGHT !!
Yes indeed - Aussies live in the lucky country - we can learn from USA and UK.
BUT ....
We all learn from one another - GREAT to be a partner in the fight for survival of FREEDOM, DEMOCRACY, LIBERTY and JUSTICE EQUALITY FOR ALL.
Never let us forget those pearls of wisdom from Edmund Burke:
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”
Apologies to those who can spell and use punctuation proper (ly !!).
(Aussie) DOG !!
AT LAST !!!
After posting the above comment, I found myself frozen out of this particular thread - all I got was a blank screen with my attempts to see it - yet I was able to access other threads normally.
My most sincere apologies if I somehow mucked up your computer system (40 yrs as a computer programmer has me very sympathetic to any such problems).
I do wonder though - if it was some sort of censorship due to my less than PC views - though I cannot apologise for holding such views, I can stop posting if such views are not acceptable.
I am (almost) a 66 year old retiree - pensioner actually - a father and grandfather.
From the time of 9/11, I took an active interest in trying to find out why a claimed to be religion of peace seemed to be becoming such a serious threat to MY GRANDCHILDREN and future generations.
Since then I have learned much and I no longer see Islam as merely a religion - let alone peaceful.
I DO NOT LIKE WHAT I SEE - and I thus cannot apologise for my views - born of having experienced ww2 as a babe in arms to being a very young school boy at war's end. I am also very conscious of ww1 through my family history.
BOTH wars were to end all wars - small wonder I am an ANGRY OLD MAN !!
I am also PRIVILAGED - because of the efforts of USA and the UK in particular - I have lived a life (from the age of 5) at peace - I have NOT seen violence directly.
Please let me know if my views are less than appreciated - I will NOT change my views - but I AM prepared to place myself in "read only" mode.
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK - great site - and - YES - I am looking forward to reading your latest book (when it arrives - Au is a long way away).
DOG !!
DianaC
My wife is descended from a girl who spent some time in Newgate prison, and who was shipped off to the Colonies rather directly. And another relative was a famous (that is, infamous) Old West gunslinger. But you're right, nobody refers to us as criminals or being descended from criminals.
That's because everybody is always calling us racists, bigots, imperialists, warmongers, white supremicists, right-wing zealots, Christian evangelists/fundamentalists, and slave owners. To be called a common criminal would be a welcome relief.
Lazydog, my wife and I greatly admire Mr. Howard's stand in Australia. He seems to be the only politician we see on television who is actually speaking with some truth and conviction. Blair has come close a time or two, but Howard gets the whole picture as far as we can tell.