Islamic forum: Vatican has entered the war

Yes, the Vatican has entered the lists -- on the right side. That is because the current Pope knows a good deal about Islam, and understands that this is not a "war of civilizations" as Muslims like to prate about, when they call now for more phony "dialogues" to buy time, so that Muslim populations can become more entrenched, less easily dislodged (but see the Benes Decree in 1946, and how easy that was to enforce, as a measure prompted by the need for permanently ending what was presented, and with evidence, as a security threat to Czechoslovakia).

Those who have been used to appeasing Islam -- the churchmen in the Middle East -- by throwing Israel to the wolves, or at least doing it in bits and pieces, are going to have to choose. The mixture as before will not do. For now it is Europe itself that is at stake, and the connection between the Lesser Jihad (that against Israel) and the Greater Jihad (that against Infidels all over the world) will have to be recognized -- and will be. Would that the Israelis themselves could bring themselves to recognize it, but even if they don't, that should not prevent the rest of us from seeing things steadily and whole.

I have a real problem with blokes in dresses who claim to represent God on Earth - no matter which God that is.

Personally, I wish the Pope would just do his World tour thing, sell his merchandise, his CDs & keep quiet about the real world.

Whether a religion is killing folks because of the writings in Holy Books or because of Holy intervention into birth control, its still killing.

Note that the Pope met in Cologne with representatives of the German Muslim community. Ther German Central Council of Muslims issued afterwards a statement (http://www.zentralrat.de/3314.php) asking the Pope to appologize to Muslims as John Paul II. did apologize to Jews.

Apologize?
For what?

I guess the crusades - which happened in defense... http://iblis.twoday.net/stories/916747/

best wishes!
iblis+

Its about time the Vatican stood for something. I applauded the previous administration's attempts to outreach to other sects and religons, but, I was deeply disgusted at the utter failure to clean house with all the abuse scandals.

Having grown up attending catholic school, it was disgusting to independently learn that the Vatican generally aquiesced to Mussolini/Hitler.

Is it developing a back-bone too late? Can the white-haired wizards in marble halls pull a Crusade of Conscious out of their little hats? If there was ever a need for Vatican leadership, its now.

In the face of an ideology that doesnt discriminate between killing women, children or men, isn't it a comfort that an ideology wants to protect them all - including those yet to be born? We individually may disagree on the 'right to life', but, its a moot debate while Islamikazie's kill and mame our children.

There are many matters that I simply disagree with the Catholics on - some political, some religous, some ethical - but, the time is now to reach out and unify to keep our nation, our faith, our families and our selves from being slaughtered.

Interesting.. in that a second rise of the Roman Empire which will also be the source of the Anti-Christ is cited by many in Bible prophesy.

In 2002 the Itallians caught muslim terrorists in posession of 4 kilos of cyanide and plans for Rome's domestic water supply. Authorities said the quantity of poison was sufficient to kill the city's entire population. The Vatican knows it can't dodge this war.

I agree with Albion's comments above, though at the same time it's reasuring to see any kind of galvanizing force ready to confront the truth. If government & the MSM can't or won't, then the Church should fill the gap, before far-right groups can take the innitiative.

No matter what the direction the Pope and his administration takes, Catholics(and all other "infidels") around the world already see the problems arising and will stand to combat them.

Interesting.. in that a second rise of the Roman Empire which will also be the source of the Anti-Christ is cited by many in Bible prophesy.

Posted by: daverunt at August 26, 2005 10:52 AM

IS A PERSON NOT A LIVE IF THEY ARE IN OUR MIMORYS??

If this is the case could the anti christ have already been and now being followed by millions if not billions what was it from the seed of Abraham could that been the seed of ishmal[who was Abrhams son] is this not who mo-ham-od said he came from??

People say Jesus is alive in heart so is it not the same for mo-ham-od??

This Leader is a Man who needs our Prayers to stay Strong because this burden is so great.

He has nothing to say he is sorry for if anything the Mulsums need to say they are sorry for all the Deaths caused by their religion!!!

No Pray for this Man and those who are like minded no matter what religion they are from they want what is right for this world for brothers to love one another and stop the fighting see the world needs peace!

But if those who don't want peace we will not stand by while they kill us any more because our eyes are now open and see the truth and will support the real victims not the killers anymore!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
God Bless the USA and her Fighting Forces and ALL who Fight with her give them Strength, Wisdom, Sight, and Courage to Stay the course to Victory to Destroy ALL Islamic Terrorist and ALL who Support them Let Not the World be Deceived by them Give the World Courage to Stand Together in this Fight Amen

MikeMontana

Mike, we could discuss the rights and wrongs of the actions of the Catholic Church prior to and during WWII and still not reach a consensus.

I am not disagreeing with what you say. In fact my knowledge in this area is, sadly, insufficient for me to make much firm comment.

I also realise that the purpose of this site is not to defend the Catholic Church against relatively mild criticism from reasonable people who whold views that are reasonably open to them.

Having said that, what I do know is this:

1. Rabbi Zolli, former Chief Rabbi of Rome during WWII converted to Catholicism in 1945. He chose 'Eugenio' as his Christian name, in gratitude to Pope Pius XII for his decisive action on behalf of the Jews during the war.

2. According to the Jewish historian Pinchas Lapide, the Catholic Church helped to save from certain death approximately 850,000 Jews living in areas occupied by the Third Reich.

3. During the period 1933-1945 at least, the Catholic Church had no standing army (I assume that at this time roving catholic albino assassins were also rather thin on the ground).

Actually, as a Catholic, I was very impressed that Pope Benedict XVI accepted an invitation to visit a Synagogue while in Cologne.

I was also very impressed that he declined an invitation to visit a mosque while in Cologne.

I believe that there was much to admire about Pope John Paul II, but I predict it will be a very cold day in hell before Pope Benedict XVI kisses a copy of the Koran.

I imagine it would be very difficult for the jihaddists to claim they were facing an infidel crusade unless they can implicate the leader of the largest Christian denomination in the world. And I don't think we'll be waiting very long before we hear such declarations from one or the other of the usual suspects to justify yet another atrocity perpetrated against unarmed civilians, far from any battlefield.

Thursday, August 18, 2005
Pope Benedict and the Islamonazis

Sandro Magister has the scoop on the representatives of the Religion of Peace Papa Ratzi will be meeting while he's in Cologne for World Youth Day: "From Cologne to the Conquest of Europe: How the Muslim Brotherhood is Challenging the Pope."
ROMA, August 18, 2005-- The penultimate event of Benedict XVI's visit to Cologne, before the vigil and Mass with the young people of World Youth Day XX, will be a Saturday, August 20 meeting with the "representatives of some of the Muslim communities."

The meeting will take place at the residence of the city's archbishop. The Muslims asked the pope to visit a mosque, but Benedict XVI declined the invitation.
Hmmm...wonder what the reason was for the change in venue?
His prudence is understandable. Cologne and Munich--where Joseph Ratzinger was archbishop from 1977 to 1981--are the cities in which the Muslim Brotherhood, which has for decades been the main ideological and organizational source of radical Islam in the world, has gained control of most of the mosques and of active Islam in Germany and in Europe.

Mahdy Akef, an Egyptian now residing in Cairo who is the present murshid, or supreme guide, of the Muslim Brotherhood worldwide, is an explicit supporter of the suicide terrorists in Iraq. From 1984 until 1987, he directed the most dynamic Muslim center of Germany, in Munich, with its great mosque in the northern part of the city.

Munich was the birthplace of the Islamische Gemeinschaft in Deutschland, IGD, one of the largest Islamic organizations in Germany. The IGD is under the full control of the Muslim Brotherhood and has sixty mosques spread throughout the country.

For a few years, its organizational headquarters has been located in Cologne. The president of this body is Ibrahim Al Zayat, a 39-year-old Egyptian, the charismatic leader of a network of youth and student organizations that are linked to the World Assembly of Muslim Youth, WAMY, the largest Islamic youth organization in the world. WAMY is financed by Saudi Arabia, bears a strong, rigorist Wahhabi imprint, and produces vehemently anti-Jewish and anti-Christian publications.
Good reason. So, how did the Muslim Brotherhood get established in Europe in the first place?
After the Second World War, Muslims from various countries, and particularly from central Asia, established a significant presence in this city. Their head, Nureddin Namangani, who came from an Uzbek family, had been an imam in one of the Nazi SS divisions during the war between Hitler's Germany and the Soviet Union. On account of their opposition to communism and toward Moscow, these groups of Muslim expatriates drew the interest of the American, English, and Soviet secret services during the Cold War.

This was until an important Egyptian named Said Ramadan came to Munich from Geneva.

The son-in-law and chief collaborator of Hassan Al Banna, the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood, Said Ramadan had arrived in Europe in 1954 after fleeing from Egypt, where the Brotherhood had been outlawed. He established himself in Geneva and studied law in Cologne. He founded a magazine for Muslims in Europe, "Al Muslimun." He had a Jordanian diplomatic passport, received financing from Saudi Arabia, and was looked upon favorably by the CIA because he was an opponent of Nasser.

In 1960, with the support of a large group of young followers, Said Ramadan took control of Munich's Muslim community and, partly with the help of public funds from the Germany, began the construction of a new mosque. His objective, which he quickly attained, was to make of this a center for the expansion of the Muslim Brotherhood throughout all of Europe.

His trusted assistant in this operation was Ghaleb Himmat, a Syrian with Italian citizenship who lived in Campione d'Italia, on Lake of Lugano. With Said Ramadan already occupied with his Islamic center in Geneva-- today directed by his son, Hani, and with another son, the famous Tariq Ramadan, among its members--over the course of a few years Himmat effectively repositioned Said Ramadan as the head of the Islamic center in Munich. In 1973, the year of the new mosque's inauguration, Himmat became the president of the organization connected to this, the one to which he gave the name Islamische Gemeinschaft in Deutschland, IGD.
Okay...Nazi collaborators...a European government funding its own destruction...sounds familiar enough.

Only it seems like they weren't content to restrict their operations to Europe:
In 1994, a frequent visitor of the mosque in Munich, Mahmoud Abouhalima, was given a life sentence in the United States for having organized, one year before, the car bomb attack on the World Trade Center in New York. But it was only after the collapse of the Twin Towers on September 11, 2001, that investigations into the connections between terrorism and the radical Islamic circles in Germany intensified.

And the connections quickly led to the Munich mosque. Himmat, who was president of the IGD at the time, and one of his close collaborators who also attended the mosque, Youssef Nada, ended up on the list of people who support terrorism which was produced by the United States. The U.S. Treasury Department froze the assets of the two men. Investigations are still underway on the part of various countries, including Italy, into the movement of money on behalf of terrorist groups carried out by the Bahamas-based Al Taqwa bank founded and directed by the two men.

Muslims must take down the Vatican. If Catholics (and other Christian denominations and non-denominational sects) start following the literal word of the Gospels, the hell holes of the world will breed another type of extremists - Mother Teresa's in all the filthiest slums carrying for the sick and needy. The horror, the horror!

Posted by: shiva at August 26, 2005 04:43 PM

Gold Star for you today!!!

Now stop that[hummor]??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM SIGHT, WISDOM, STRENGTH, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

PS
Good thing the German People can have guns??

Albion:
WOW another anti-Catholic English a**hole that’s a surprise. How exactly is the Catholic Church killing people with “intervention into birth control? If you are referring to condoms and AIDS in Africa then you should at lest acknowledge that the church also disapproves of sex outside of and before marriage. If people followed these rules AIDS would not spread in Africa. For those who don’t feel that they need to follow the Catholic Church on sex outside of and before marriage why would they follow the rules concerning condoms? The church aiding the spread of AIDS is another BULLLS**T leftist argument.
Don’t forget to bow to your new Islamic masters Albion because with all that birth control you will be the minority in your own country in a generation.

It is generally known that Islamists have been gunning for Rome and the Vatican ever since the fall of Byzantium and Constantinople. The article that is the subject of this thread left me wondering what, if anything, all of a sudden triggered this reaction that the Vatican is no longer neutral but has joined the infidel Crusaders in the land of Islam.

It is generally known that defensive (cough! cough!) war must be waged against the unbeliever for the slightest of slights against the good name of Islam and its prophet. But I still couldn't find the link between Pope Benedict's XVI statements re terrorism and the revival of Jihad against the Vatican.

Starting with the premise that our good friend and buddy al-Zarqawi has declared that any Iraqi taking part in the infidel government is a traitor and apostate of Islam, and that it is blasphemy to create laws through reprsentative government when Allah has given us all the law we need. Then I read this article, as the news behind the news.

The foreign minister of Iraq, Hoshyar Zebari, has just met with the Pope and Vatican Secretary of State Cardinal Angelo Sodano seeking Vatican help with the establishment of the Iraqi constitutional governement and protection of religious minorities. Now it is clear why the Vatican is no longer neutral but has joined the war against Islam.

Iraq reassures Vatican on religious freedom

Rome, Aug. 26 (CWNews.com) - Iraq needs help from the Holy See in establishing a new democratic system of government, the country's foreign minister told Church officials during a visit to the Vatican on August 25. The Iraqi official also sought to ease the concerns of Church leaders about prospects for religious freedom under the proposed new constitution.

At a news conference in Rome following his meetings with Pope Benedict XVI (bio - news) and Cardinal Angelo Sodano (bio - news), Hoshyar Zebari said that the conversations had revolved around issues of religious freedom and the protection of Christian communities in Iraq. He said that he also discussed the need to ensure respectful dialogue across religious lines, and to discourage extremism and terrorism.

During this visit, Zebari reported, the discussions had centered on the draft constitution that has been submitted to the Iraqi national assembly. The Pope, he said, had stressed "protection of religious freedom in the new constitution, and protection of the rights of the Christian community." He said that he had assured the Pope that these rights would be "established firmly, on an equal basis, without any discrimination," and that Christians would be "free to practice their religion without fear of being intimidated or harassed by any other group."

Imagine the reaction that Zarqawi must have had upon hearing of a Muslim seeking help from the cross worshippers, "I'm shocked, shocked!" Shocked enough to declare that the pagan temple of the Vatican and its collection blasphemeous art should be forthwith removed from Allah's realm.

I am proud of being menaced from the islamic terrorism, I trust in Christ and the holy Catholic Chuch, go Benedict XVI

Snowdawg:

First off, please let me apologise for rattling your cage.

English a**hole? Yes, most probably, but certainly not anti Catholic. My Mother is a Catholic.

I should never have linked Islam & Catholicism in the context that I did. It was crass & stupid.

I should & will withdraw the flippant comments I made, I guess I should have wrote that the Pope is an enormously influential man in the Third World, & if he actually endorsed the use of contraceptives should people succumb to temptation, then maybe an awful lot of lives could be saved.

Asking any human being to refrain from sex is, in my book, a lost cause. People will have sex outside of marriage - if the Pope can influence whether or not their lack of moral fortitude actually costs them their lives, then I think, as a Christian, he should.

Once again, I apologise for upsetting you.

Best regards