Jihadist prison gang may have been behind September 11, 2005 plots

I have been thinking more and more about the need for an Enlightenment in Muslim societies.

Even if the United States and its allies manages to put democracies in place in Iraq and Afghanistan, it will do no good if Sharia becomes the main source of law. If the government continues to depend on the approval of religious clerics and their followers, then the education system will continue to teach fanaticism.

Also, because no criticism or discussion of Islam is possible in those societies, how can anti-clerical forces (similar to those represented by Voltaire)make their views known?

The internet might be of some use in this regard but the internet (as the Chinese and Saudis have shown) can be censored too!

One of the biggest problems is the difference between how Islam and Christianity view relations with the state. Christians could render unto Caesar what was his due and render unto God what was his due. The theological underpinnings for a separation of Church and State were there. In Islam, no separation of Church and State is possible. The state exists to serve Islam. Thus, even under a democratic system, the state must always be seen as doing the will of Islam. Turkey only manages its delicate balancing act by suppressing Islam.

Even here in the West, Islam cannot be criticized publicly because, ironically, of the legacy of the Enlightenment ideas of religious tolerance.

Our only hope really is that large numbers of Muslims will become apostates and have the courage to publicly state their apostacy and have the ability to promote their views. Alas, this hope seems forlorn because apostates are instantly threatened with death not to mention shunned by their family and friends.

Anyone who has publicly criticized Islam has been the victim of intimidation campaigns.

So, what can we do? Support the apostates by buying their books. Support brave people like Robert Spencer who dare to criticize Islam in spite of death threats. Challenge any government legislation that seeks to censor any criticism of Islam. Unfortunately, it seems that is up to us, individual actors, to change the world.

Good luck to us all.

My post last night on this subject might interest those of you at Jihad Watch and your informed readers. I'm a veteran of 22 years in corrections so I know of what I rant:

http://patrioticrants.blogspot.com/2005/08/al-qaeda-in-big-house.html

Keep up the good work!

Thanks Osapian. Great post. The civilization that you save may be your own.

What do you do when the terrorists are already inside prison?

MainTour Socal Newsblog -

Mentat;

Damn few muslims have the cajones to publicly reject islam, and who can blame them, especially if they live in a muslim or high % muslim country. If you're a man, i would imagine tolerating islam is preferable to taking one in the cruller from who knows what direction, at who knows what moment. On the other hand, a woman in islam would theoretically have less to lose and more to gain, but again, in a muslim country? Her task would be damn near impossible.
The trouble is, to me, that it is the women of islam who hold the key, it is they who must lead islam forward, escaping "the dark side" and leading the willing into the light of day. I think a mass woman's movement in the muslim world would lead to such butchery, brutal abuse, and jackbooted oppression that it would reach Holocaust proportions.

While we bandy deportations about, an idea I don't have ANY problems with, I wonder if it would be feasable to "rescue" muslim women who somehow indicated their wish for asylum. Work something out where they were required to be unaccompanied, other than their children, they would go to resettlement villages for de-programming, refusal not being an option, they would not be just handed a welfare check and sent out into society with a pat on their burkha'd butts.

Just thought of it so it's far from a fleshed out idea.

t-ham:

There are many Muslim women who seek the protection of Western social agencies to escape abusive mates. Funnily enough, however, because of Stockholm Syndrome, most do not wish to abandon their Muslim faith nor do they consider their Muslim faith to be the source of their abusive treatment (and sometimes they are probably right). The brainwashing into the cult is so thorough that they can't leave it.

Thus, we come to your idea of deprogramming centres. This idea would only be possible in a non-Western state as any such idea would be considered religious discrimination and the Muslims would scream. Other religions might scream too. The Scientologists, Mormons, etc. would also say, "What? Are we going to be next? You are going to say that we are dangerous cults too and set up deprogramming centres for us too?"

One man's cult is another man's religion I am afraid. The most perceptive comment I read on this was that the difference between a cult and a religion was about a hundred years. In other words, if a cult can last for a hundred years, then it becomes accepted as a mainstream religion. Mormonism was the example. And Scientology was the second example. It is a good example too as it is about 50 years old now and you do not see it often described as a cult in the MSM; in fact, it's celebrity adherents get to praise it to the stars in the MSM, at every opportunity (a la Tom Cruise).

Sorry, I can't be more optimistic for you.

I hate to disagreed, guys, but I don't think a "women's revolt" is going to do the trick. For every woman in every muslim nation, there is a man, like as not more than willing to beat her. It could and probably would (at some point) come down to a general physical showdown. Women's genes and physical makeup do not favour them in this regard.

Geoff

Geoff-

"Women's genes and phsycial make-up do not favour them in this regard."

Oh, no?

Sleeping male versus sharpened kitchen knife?

What exactly is his advantage, then?

Methinks the 'Bobbit Effect' would take the Muslim men down a peg (so to speak) if applied dramatically enough by a host of Hirsi Ali's throughout Islam.

No. The real problem is that Islam offers plenty of women opportunities to victimize other women. And the sisterhood is a myth. Given the choice between supporting another woman and stepping all over her, there are far too many women, in any culture - let alone one that rewards such things - who would gladly do the stepping, and dance while they were doing it.

do any of the reports in the media happen to mention the race of either patterson or washington?
just askin.

dt

From LGF:

9/11 Conspirator Gets Slap on Wrist
Moroccan jailed in 9/11 retrial.

A Moroccan man who was friends with three of the 9/11 suicide hijackers has been found guilty in Germany of belonging to a terrorist organisation.

Mounir al-Motassadek, 31, was sentenced to seven years in prison following a year-long retrial. However, the court in Hamburg ruled there was no proof that he knew about the 11 September 2001 plot.

Motassadek was originally convicted of those charges in 2003 but the verdict was overturned and a retrial ordered. After the original conviction was quashed by Germany’s Supreme Court last year, the retrial heard new evidence - excerpts of interviews with key al-Qaeda suspects provided by the US. One of these told how Motassadek had taken part in vitriolic anti-US discussions in the home of hijacker Mohammed Atta, but also insisted he was not aware of the 9/11 plot.

Prosecutors argued that Motassadek provided key assistance to the “Hamburg cell”, pointing out that he signed the will of Atta - believed to be the ringleader of the 19 suicide hijackers - and held power of attorney on the bank account of another hijacker.

While the hijackers were attending flight training schools in the US, he used that power of attorney to handle the transfer of small amounts of money for them. Motassadek had also admitted attending an al-Qaeda training camp in Afghanistan in early 2000.

But he has repeatedly denied any prior knowledge of the attacks on New York and Washington, saying that the favours he did for the hijackers were just part of being a good Muslim. ...

... And the German court apparently agreed.

As a veteran of the American prison system [New Jersey], I can assure you that Islam is the denominant faith behind all prison walls. People of all faiths flock to the Islamic faith because the Muslims have intelligently met a very real need. People in prison are lonely, other faiths do a minimum of priosn outreach. Naturally, people in need will respond to anyone that holds out that figurative branch.

Unfortunately, convicts also tend to lean towards anti-social tendencies. Not least of which is the intense hatred of authority. This volatile combination is what it is.

Many correctioal systems have banned outright certain strains of radical Islam, such as the so called "5 % Nation of Islam." However, anyone professing toi teach so called "orthadox" Islam is permitted to iniate a prison outreach. the result is apprent.

Not only have the group in California been linked to possible terror activities, who can forget the Puerto Rican former gang member who made his way to the madrassahs of Pakistan to immerse himself in fundamental hatred? He of course was hoping to detonate radioactive material in America.

It is a very real problem that CAN be helped with simple steps. As a Jew I can easily relate just how little is done to mentor to people of all religious faiths, other than Islam of course. in addition, other mentoring would be immensely helpful as well. Sadly, I do not see that it is a real possibility.

Here's my second post on the prison-jihadists at New Folsom:

http://patrioticrants.blogspot.com/2005/08/al-qaeda-in-big-house-part-2.html