From the Guardian:
Liberal Democrats yesterday warned that the government's counter-terrorism proposals would inflame community tensions and alienate young Muslims, as they unanimously passed a motion urging the party to defend civil liberties and oppose any move to water down human rights legislation. The emergency motion warned that many of the measures included in last week's draft anti-terrorism bill, or suggested by ministers elsewhere, would "undermine traditional civil liberties, risk alienating minority communities and [would be] open to abuse".
Speakers expressed particular concern about extradition to countries where torture and other human rights abuses occurred, and about proposals to allow police up to three months to detain suspects before charging them. The proscribing of political parties which had not been linked to violence was also a worry. They warned that the new powers were likely to be invoked disproportionately on ethnic and religious minorities.
Very few people want to mistreat ethnic or religious minorities, but many wonder what causes Muslims, in particular, to feel alienated. The onus of integrating into British society begins with the Muslims themselves. A task they seem to take lightly considering the fact that as many as 150 independent Muslim schools "offer a religion-dominated education little different to the madrassas of Pakistan, and do little to encourage integration." It appears that a disconnect with British society is what they really desire. Have liberal democrats considered Sura [5.51] - "O you who believe! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends" - as a possible factor behind self-imposed Muslim alienation?
Moving the motion, an activist, Tim Nichols, said: "Three months' detention without charge is internment. We know that internment in Ireland contributed to the recruitment of terrorists, the worsening of conflict, more lives lost and more lives damaged. If the government wants to radicalise a generation of young British Muslims, it is going about it the right way."
Greg Mulholland, MP for Leeds North West, added: "These measures will inflame tension and increase the same resentment which led to four young men from West Yorkshire bombing their own capital city."
Nasser Butt, a Mole Valley councillor and chair of the Liberal Democrats' Muslim Forum, urged activists: "Let's not forget that the terrorism brought to this country is also related to Iraq. To deal with it by coming up with authoritarian laws restricting civil liberties [Tony Blair] is getting away from his responsibility for what he's done to this country."
Alienated by society, inflamed by anti-terrorism legislation and outraged by Britain's involvement in Iraq are explanations liberal democrats have given as motivating factors behind Islamic terrorism. The desire amongst the Muslim faithful to "fight for the sake of Allah" and to die for his cause is virtually ignored. This underestimation has proven to be fatal, as the London bombings have shown.
From the Party that has at least 1 Councillor in the North of England who does not speak English this is no surprise.
The Lib Dems are an absolute joke - no-one takes them seriously, & this is why.
No-one trusts them with the security of the realm.
Civil Liberties & Human Rights never stopped a terrorist.
The only people who benefit from the insanity of liberalism & their Human Rights / Civil Liberties mantra are:
Terrorists
Criminals
Human Rights Lawyers
Carping on about Human Rights & Civil Liberties & sniping from the "moral high ground" is so very easy when you know, deep down, that you are never going to be in power. Ever.
What makes Muslims feel alienated?
It is all but obvious...their own clerics. They are the ones that tell muslims that Allah demands they dare not integrate, that their "host societies" are dirty and evil.
However, It is good to see that Europe is starting to see that the clerics are the problem, even if inconsistently. It is a fact of our times that the clerics are this war's "minsters of propaganda and enlightenment".
Kennedy is such an idiot... Lib Dems will never come to power if they stick to minority issues. Look at their supporter base, half of it consists of Indians and Pakistanis.
"These measures will inflame tension and increase the same resentment which led to four young men from West Yorkshire bombing their own capital city..."
-- from the article above
This is as clear and unadulterated an expression of idiocy as is possible. We cannot take reasonable measures to monitor those who have settled among us and have given every sign of not sharing any of the assumptions or beliefs of the circumambient society, and what is more, have given every sign of their determination to remain apart, but at the same time to work to undercut that society and to make it over so as to conform to their very different views of what a society should be -- different in every possible way.
Yet after bombings within England, by people born in England but holding to a belief-system that makes them regard all non-Muslims with antipathy, as the enemy, to be subjugated or "reverted" or killed, doctrines that have been stated clearly again and again, and acted upon, again and again, throughout the 1350-year history of Islam, attempts by English people to protect themselves are opposed because they might "inflame tension and...increase resentment" of local Muslims. If protecting yourself from those who would kill you happens to "inflame tension and...increase resentment" of Muslims who claim to have nothing at all to do with such bombings, and abhore them, that is passing strange. But of course there is no such further inflaming of tensions and increasing of resentments. That has already been done by the Qur'anic passages and Hadith stories -- some 1350 years ago, with both considered immutable, and the first the Word of God.
In fact, the way to lower Muslim resentment and tension is with absolute firmness. Any sign of giving in leads to more; there is no such thing in Islam as compromise with the Infidels. There is only defeat, or victory -- and victory leads to the desire for more victory. Every victory, or every event that is permitted to be interpreted as a victory (as the way that the Israeli decision to leave Gaza becomes, in the Arab Muslim retelling, a tremendous victory for Hamas and terrorism, whatever Sharon had been -- foolishly -- calculating), whets rather than sates the appetite. And because Muslims have a different world-view, a world-view that immediately take in every single place where Muslims currently are fighting because they are being "persecuted" or "occupied" -- from southern Thailand to the West Bank to parts of France and England -- every Muslim knows at once, as non-Muslims do not, how every single one of those is a front in the world-wide battle that pits Muslim against non-Muslim. Muslims know this. Muslims are keenly aware of this: Iraq, Kashmir, "Palestine," Chechnya, etc. -- they routinely list four or five such places, but they could easily go on. Non-Muslims are not. But to save themselves, they must.
Practicing Muslims are mad,
And I dont CAIR anymore.
The Guardian`s precept is that when rape is imminent, lie back and enjoy it.
I know I'm just a stupid American, but isn't being blown up a violation of civil liberties? Or am I just being narrow-minded and using black and white reasoning?
If you take Allah out of he picture, I dont think muslims would make bombs of themselves over
anti-terrorist legislation or societal allienation. Especially when it is muslims themselves who have a hard time assimilating into that society. Take Allah out of jihad and whats left? Jihad is fighting in Allahs cause, if there is no Allah, what is the cause? So Allah is the basic cause of muslim jihad, not Bush/Blair/Iraq, not anti-terrorist legislation, not even societal rejection...It's Allah, and of course his main bugle blowing trumpeteer, Mohammad. It may be that Islam has five, maybe six pillars, but in reality there are only two, Allah and his apostle, Mohammad. Kick either leg out from under, and the entire structure above comes crashing down. Thats why Jihad is the savior of Islam. Thats why muslims are so touchy about the Islamic trinity, Allah-Mohammad-Qu'ran.
Thats why they have to prove that Jesus is not God, because if he is, Allah is not, and there goes one of those legs. They must defend the Qur'an, and Mohammads image as "supreme righteous dude and role model', because if they dont, there goes another of those legs. When they cant hold things together, jihad comes along and saves the day. Jihad holds Islam together. Bukhari was right that without jihad, Islam would fall. Without Allah, there would be no jihad. Thats one reason for religiously inclined intellectuals to keep hammering home the idea that Allah is not God. Attacking jihadic terrorism at its root, Allah, may have more results than a thousand anti-terrorist laws.
The Liberal Democrats are a motly band of lentil-eating vegetarians, animal-rights obsessives, pacifists, dopers, Islamic radicals, gay rights activists and a few neo-Marxists. They are led by a flabby, alchoholic Scottish dwarf with a speech impediment. They are merely a social club where anyone who wants to protest about anything meets up to listen to themselves taking, where they can safely be ignored by the rest of British society.
St. Dunny:
But tell us what you really think of the Liberal Democrats.
Anyone who tolerates the existence of totalitarian tyrants is neither liberal nor democratic.
What alienates Muslims? The idea that Muslims aren't controlling non-Muslims in any society into which they have insinuated themselves is a powerful motivation to punish that society through the use of terror.
"St. Dunny:
But tell us what you really think of the Liberal Democrats.
Anyone who tolerates the existence of totalitarian tyrants is neither liberal nor democratic."
Yes, that's very true. I suppose the "line in the sand" around liberalism is the toleration of intolerance. But that is a line the Lib Dems are both happy and eager to cross, because their electoral powerbase is among those who simply feel disaffected, either about a single issue, or in a much looser sense. For the same reason, the Lib Dems never publish coherent policy agendas: if it is known what they stand for, then it must follow that they stand against something else, which would risk some areas of the disaffected vote.