Jihad and dhimmitude in Iraq. From the BBC, with thanks to Diana:
There are fears for the future of one of the most ancient, as well as the smallest, communities in Iraq - the Mandeans. Their religion, Mandeanism, comes from the same general background as Judaism, Christianity and Islam.They share many of the same prophets, but particularly honour John the Baptist.
This is a religion almost solely confined to Iraq, but since the US-led invasion in 2003, many Mandeans have fled the country and now more than half of them live outside its borders.
The refugees speak of kidnap, murder and attempts at forced conversion.
One woman, Ibtisam Sabah Habib, said there had always been some threats and pressure to convert to Islam, but under the previous Iraqi regime there had been limits.
"Now, there are no rules and no government," she said, describing how an armed gang of Islamic extremists had got into her house, killed her father and stolen all their money.
"They would telephone us at home, threatening us and trying to convert us. Then they tried to kidnap me.
"It was our neighbours who saved me. They're Muslims - not all Muslims threaten us. But the extremists are very strong now - our neighbours couldn't protect us all the time."
Read it all.
Mandean libraries of ancient manuscripts have already been burnt by Muslim fanatics. For some reason those who have been complaining up and down the U.N. corridors, or at the MEALAC meetings, have had no time to say a word about the deliberate destruction of the pre-Islamic and non-Islamic books and art within Iraq. Not a word, as far as I know, from the likes of Zainab Bahrani. Why not?
The Mandaeans are fleeing for their lives in Iraq. In Iran, the traditional Mandaean trade of goldsmithing is being denied to young Mandaeans whose career choices are already extremely limited since they are considered unclean for so many jobs. Education in Iran is also a continuing problem for young Mandaeans since many Muslims do not want their children in the same schools with unclean infidels. And, the problems continue for Mandaeans refugees. In Australia, the Mandaeans are often put in the same camps with Muslims, who outnumber them and have little or no hestiation about raping Mandaean girls and gang beating Mandaean men. Last year, in a refugee center, ground glass was found in the bowls of food served to Mandaean babies, compliments of the Muslim cooks. The Mandaeans must present a special problems for the Muslims as they proclaim themselves members of the religion of peace. They have a ever-ready list in their back pockets of grievances committed by Jews and Christians...but whatever did the small sect of Mandaeans ever do to Muslims, except exist as infidels in lands stolen from them by invading Muslim hordes. Does King Tolerance have an answer for this?
A curious thing about the Mandeans (Sabeans), they are mentioned in the Qur’an as one of the people of the book who are afforded Dhimmi status. However, as we all know, all toleration was abrogated by the verse of the sword.
"Those who believe, and those who followed Jewish law, and [also] Christians and Sabeans, whoever believes in Allah and in the Last Day and does good
deeds, they shall have their reward before their Lord, and there shall be no fear upon them, nor shall they grieve." [Al-Baqarah]
“But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.”
I met a few young Mandeans in Iraq: very nice people. My Assyrian friends told me that they considered them to be their brothers since they are really the same people, only they happened to practice a different religion. They still speak Aramaic like the Assyrian- Chaldean people.
There are some interesting observations about the Mandaeans in Paul William Roberts, In Search of the Birth of Jesus. The book is mostly concerned with Catholic-bashing, as I recall, but there are some interesting insights into Islam for those with lots of time to read. For those who have litle time, I strongly urge you to read Mohammlet's Soliloquy:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/008204.php#comments
This is a good place to put this. I first read about Mandeans in Robert Eisenman's "James the Brother of Jesus". They still practice the ancient priestly rites from the 1st cent. They were driven out by Paul in the 30s, and made their home in Southern Erag/Iraq.
There is also a book from the 1800s by Dr. Eisler (sorry, can't recall the first name). You can find out more how to get this book by Eisenman's. And Eisenman's book has some pictures of the Mandeans taken from Eisler's book.
And these ancient rites are the same or virtually identical to those found at Qumran.
"It was our neighbours who saved me. They're Muslims - not all Muslims threaten us. But the extremists are very strong now"
King: Just thought this was well worth repeating.
Just thought this was well worth repeating:
http://nodhimmitude.blogspot.com
"... not all Muslims threaten us.."
The "King" is delighted!
'Not all Muslims are terrorists,' (although just about all terrorists are Muslims)
The King 'thinks':
'Well worth repeating' - ad nauseam, and so we shall repeat it, till the lights turn blue.
And the point is....?
No kidding you at all, I did a google images search and found a photo of King Tolerance, as above. I had no idea. I always thought he's the guy who sells comic books to Bart Simpson.
Sheik Yerbooty: "Not all Muslims are terrorists,' (although just about all terrorists are Muslims)"
King: From your myopic, unilateral and parochial point of view this is certainly the case. Afterall, your little moniker speaks volumes of your objective nature.
Were you to query some Iraqis who have suffered losses at the hands of US/UK forces, I'd bet you would have another answer.
This, "sheik", is certainly well worth repeating ad nauseum, since you seem to find this entire subject a joke with your racist "yer'mami" nonsense and ad hominem cracks at me.
sonofwalker: "No kidding you at all, I did a google images search and found a photo of King Tolerance, as above."
King: Very cute! (eyes rolling) The other interesting thing is that my real name would also surface on Google and offer you some very, very interesting things about me and my carreer as well.
King: "The other interesting thing is that my real name would also surface on Google and offer you some very, very interesting things about me and my carreer as well."
Wow. You must be important. Is it an important job you don't need to know how to spell for?
"Carreer" on blindly, if you must.
(Whispers) Are you a Freemason? Do you know of the talking heads? Are you part of the worldwide conspiracy Ia mentions so often? Or are you Omar Bakri?
'Cause I think Ia'd be interested to know that.
Actually, if you did a search, you'd find my name and career on the internet too. Oooooh, scaaary.
Note:
King: Were you to query some Iraqis who have suffered losses at the hands of US/UK forces, I'd bet you would have another answer.
Ahhhh. So all Americans are terrorists? Wow. Good point. That worked. Never mind that when American bombs kill civilians, they've missed their target. When islamofascist bombs kill civilians, they've HIT theirs. But not relevant. Sure sure.
Prophet Geoff
Geoff:
Wasn't it just the other day that King was claiming that, like Albion, his own opinions were as "humble" as anyone else's? As he is not a Holocaust denier, I guess we can rule out Norman Finkelstein as his possible ID.
But rather than find out who he is, I'd rather we avoided engaging him or setting up soapboxes for him to start spewing from. Our time and energies are better spent reading translations from MEMRI as well as articles posted here than argue with someone whose reasoning is so flawed as to equate the condemnation of jihaddism (which is very deeply rooted in the holy writ of the faith and not drawn from thin air) with the blood libels and wholely false accusation made against the Jewish community of Europe in the run-up to the Holocaust. Just as egregious is his POV that if all religions have an ugly side to them, well, they must all be equally bad -- no weighting, no shading. And if Muslims are hostile and violent, well, it's the west has provoked them. Oh yeah, the west really provoked the Taliban into terrorizing the Afghan people and giving safe-haven to Saudi Arabian, Egyptian and Jordanian outcasts like bin Laden and his chief henchmen by helping them drive the Soviets out of Afghanistan after the Soviets' reign of terror.
Very sad, without freedom speech and religion, there aren´t a true democracy, is only falseness.
Geoff: "Actually, if you did a search, you'd find my name and career on the internet too. Oooooh, scaaary."
King: I did Google all of your monikers and they all turned up the same thing: "A blowhard spellchecker one usually encounters in internet chatrooms." There was an added caution in there that said: "The more he types, the less he has to say." Good old Google never fails!
Imam or whoever: "So all Americans are terrorists? Wow. Good point."
King: The point is still quite good. You missed it and are blaming me for it. Sigh.
Prophet or whoever: "Never mind that when American bombs kill civilians, they've missed their target."
King: Not in the opinions of people who lose loved ones to the bomb. Are you this dense on purpose or just when you perform?
waterdragon: "But rather than find out who he is, I'd rather we avoided engaging him or setting up soapboxes for him to start spewing from"
King: If I had a dollar for everytime I've seen this threat I'd be a rich man! Sadly, none of you ever takes your own advice. Anyhow, you even being here making your remarks forms the soapbox from which I speak my mind, freely. Sorry this bothers you enough to want to avoid engaging me. It does not give you much integrity.
Franze: "Very sad, without freedom speech and religion, there aren´t a true democracy, is only falseness."
King: True! From what I see, Franze, free speech is bearly tolerated here and freedom of religion is OK as long as you are Christian or Jewish.
King: True! From what I see, Franze, free speech is bearly tolerated here and freedom of religion is OK as long as you are Christian or Jewish.
May I ask your assessment of Naseem's faith, in that case? She is quite free to speak here (along with literally Everyone else, save those who deliberately work to trash sites like this (note you are still here), and in fact was right there with you for quite a long time. Much as you may wish to read something into this, I really would like to see a conversation between yourself and Naseem.
Nope, point still not good. Me wait for reasoned argument....
Prophet Geoff
This excerpt from a Charles Moore article:
But when you look a little further into the question of Islamic banking, you find that it is not, in fact, required by Islam. Al-Azhar University, in Cairo, the main and ancient home of Sunni religious learning, teaches that “riba” means extortionate interest, not any interest at all, and that moderate interest should be permitted. Most Egyptian banks charge and pay interest. Even Muslims who reject this interpretation say that the doctrine of “extreme necessity” permits Muslims in non-Muslim countries to pay interest.
So what is being proposed with Islamic banking is actually a hardening of the religion, not an accommodation of its existing custom. It is rather as if Catholics, arriving in large numbers in a Muslim country, insisted that they must eat fish rather than meat on a Friday, a rule which has been dropped by the Church in modern times. And when you look at HSBC’s Sharia Board you find that a couple of its members have links with the Deoband, the long-standing ultra-conservative group whose schools in Pakistan educated many of the Taliban.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml;sessionid=IHOHYSM1KTVJFQFIQMGSNAGAVCBQWJVC?xml=/opinion/2004/08/21/do2101.xml&sSheet=/portal/2004/08/21/ixportal.html&secureRefresh=true&_requestid=17923
terribly sorry for the above. Shouls have been elsewhere.