Pakistani Lt. Gen. Safdar Hussein on 60 Minutes tonight echoed what I have said again and again at Jihad Watch and elsewhere: that we are not facing a movement centered on a charismatic leader, but an ideology-driven movement that will not die if its leader is captured or killed. In "The Search For Bin Laden" from CBSNews (thanks to usashopper) he also gives us a Tiny Minority of Extremists Update:
We asked President Musharaff who he thinks is more popular in Pakistan -- the United States or Osama bin Laden?“That's a very difficult question,” Mr. Musharaff replied. “Maybe Osama bin Laden. In the man in the street, it may be Osama bin Laden.”
Remember that the next time someone compares Osama to Tim McVeigh, saying that they are both on the fringes of their religions. When was McVeigh ever remotely that popular?
“Is it all that important to find him?” asks Safdar. “Even if he's taken out tomorrow, his ideology is not going to come to an end. So, I don't think that he’s that important that we should be overly concerned about his being dead or alive.”It is not important that bin Laden be captured, he says, because, “What's going to happen? Sentiments, they are going to get further aggravated, but their ideology will continue. It's not going to stop here.”
Lt. Gen. Hussein's comments is a bunch of pro jihadist misinformation. That along with similar views from well meaning people over look the important fact of PRESIDENT. OSB was inspired to do this in large part by some jihadist in the 1930's who flead up into the Afhanistan/Pakistan mountains and was never caught by the British. That was and remains now the PRESIDENT.
IF OSB had been caught or killed within a year of 9/11 that would have established a new and powerful PRESIDENT. The longer OSB stays out there with his Doctor Terror buddy from Eygpt to taunt and redicule America the greater inspiration he is to other fanatics to do the same.
In the realm of deterent and PRESIDENT killing OSB is NOT irrelevent. But must be done to get some momentum against the jihad. Regreatably President Bush has proven that he is not up to the job. Thus the jihad is inspired that much more.
Nossy
Er, "precedent" not "PRESIDENT." Either way, not getting OSB has been ons of Bush's greatest failures.
The statement is both true, and false. The spirit in which it was made, if one were to investigate further, was certainly not one of real but of false candor.
Yes, the capture or killing of Osama Bin Laden would have some symbolic value, in temporarily demoralizing Muslims and lifting the spirits of some Infidels.
But on the other hand, Osama Bin Laden has been made too much of, not least by an Administration dead set on avoiding the matter of Islam, and determined to end its reign still insisting that this is a "war on terror."
The more it is understood that terror is a tactic, that it is not the most effective tactic, that a kind of collective decision not to employ it in order to obtain, by other means, the same results, and to do so without unduly scaring Infidels, the better. Does anything think that Tariq Ramadan wishes for terror attacks to continue in Europe? He does not, not because for one minute he has moral objections, not because for one minute he wishes Infidels well, but because the islamization of Europe needs a certain quiet, for now, until it has proceeded during that quiet so far along that many will perceive the triumph of Islam as irreversible.
Yes, Osama Bin Laden has a certain importance.
No, he is not nearly as important as those who keep thinking that something called "Al Qaeda" is the only problem, or the main problem, when it is merely, for obvious reasons, that one group among hundreds that has been most successful in its attacks and in the level of attention it thereby has won.
Did you notice that Tony Blankley got an hour on C-SPAN2 tonight to discuss his new book "The West's Last Chance?" about the Islamist threat.
The lady interviewer from USA Today, in classic MSM denial, disputed almost everything he stated in the book.
She was against Muslim profiling, claiming that the majority of Arab-Americans are Lebanese Christians. She would make a good spinmeister for CAIR.
Do not underestimate the importance of Bin Laden:
He is not only a symbolic figure, he is the guy that all Jihadi's identify with, the possible leader of the future caliphate, some stupid enough, like 1a, may even see him as the "Mahdi"...
Sure, the Jihad continues with or without OBL, but most of the Mohammedans are looking to him for leadership. Not to find him and not having succeeded in taking him out is one of the greatest failures of the Afghan war effort.
The problem is, that locals both in Iraq or Afghanistan would do anything to protect him. Pakistanis will not allow the US to even come near him. To think that the Pakistani secret service and Musharraf don't know how to get hold of him is preposterous. Of course they do!
The Saudi's support him finanically and what can not be achieved with bribes and intimidation will be done with assassinations.
Taking him out would be a major victory in the propaganda war, at the very least.
Failure to do it is seen as the weakness and lack of resolve, which it is.
He got the ball rolling. An inspiration for many Muslims who had nothing better to do than sit around and seethe at the success of the West. Made them feel powerful. Brought the Koran to life for them. If Bin Liner's taken out, I don't think it will make much difference. A great but brief disappointment for the Muslim world perhaps, but it could also fire up more Muslims to take revenge for his death. The US or Israel will be blamed for it, even if he topples over a cliff by himself.
And this desire to blame all bombings on Al-Qaeda is pointless too. Who cares if it's Al-Qaeda, or some other organized Islamic group, or if it's a lone wolf. It's Islam. Seeking to blame everything on Al-Q perpetuates the myth that it's only a tiny minority of extremists who've hijacked Islam that we have to worry about. When the threat is Islam, period. Whether it's the violent ones plotting to blow people up, or the so-called moderates living amongst us preaching Islam is peace and organizing nice workshops and outreach programs, infiltrating our schools and governments, shutting down free speech.
"The more it is understood that terror is... not the most effective tactic..."
Actually, it seems to be, effectively, a good tactic, insofar as each new attack only makes the Islamophobo-phobes -- from leaders on high to the staffers and pundits and analysts on lower, to the minions on lowest -- dig in their heels all the more to make sure they, and we, respect and protect those poor Muslims. Just so long as the attacks don't get too numerous, too close to Western hearts, and too mass-destructive, the labor of the Tariq Ramadans of Infidelstan actually has been facilitated by the attacks, not hindered. Look: he's having tea with Blair.
Nota bene: Tariq's having tea with Blair because of 7/7.
"I write these few lines to commend Brigadier Malik's book on 'The Koranic Concept of War' to both soldier and civilian alike. JEHAD FI-SABILILLAH is not the exclusive domain of the professional soldier, nor is it restricted to the application of military force alone."
"This book brings out with simplicity, clarity and precision the Koranic philosophy on the application of military force, within the context of the totality that is JEHAD. The professional soldier in a Muslim army, pursuing the goals of a Muslim state, CANNOT become 'professional' if in all his activities he does not take on 'the color of Allah'. The non-military citizen of a Muslim state must, likewise, be aware of the kind of soldier that his country must produce and the ONLY pattern of war that his country's armed forces may wage."
"I have read this book with great interest and believe that it has a useful contribution to make toward this understanding that we jointly seek as citizens of an Islamic State, soldier or civilian. I pray and trust that this book will be read by many. For a task so sincerely undertaken and so devotedly executed, the author's reward is with his Lord."
GENERAL M. ZIA-UL-HAQ
Chief of the Army Staff
The book was first published by Wajid Alis Ltd. in Lahore, Pakistan prior to 1986.
Even the Pakistanis, as half-hearted as the may be, seem to possess a greater knowledge of the Islamist threat and ideology, than the educated apologist 'scholars' of the west.
-----------------------------
dolphin, CAGE co-founder.
http://www.acage.org
"I write these few lines to commend Brigadier Malik's book on 'The Koranic Concept of War' to both soldier and civilian alike. JEHAD FI-SABILILLAH is not the exclusive domain of the professional soldier, nor is it restricted to the application of military force alone."
"This book brings out with simplicity, clarity and precision the Koranic philosophy on the application of military force, within the context of the totality that is JEHAD. The professional soldier in a Muslim army, pursuing the goals of a Muslim state, CANNOT become 'professional' if in all his activities he does not take on 'the color of Allah'. The non-military citizen of a Muslim state must, likewise, be aware of the kind of soldier that his country must produce and the ONLY pattern of war that his country's armed forces may wage."
"I have read this book with great interest and believe that it has a useful contribution to make toward this understanding that we jointly seek as citizens of an Islamic State, soldier or civilian. I pray and trust that this book will be read by many. For a task so sincerely undertaken and so devotedly executed, the author's reward is with his Lord."
GENERAL M. ZIA-UL-HAQ
Chief of the Army Staff
The book was first published by Wajid Alis Ltd. in Lahore, Pakistan prior to 1986.
The Pakistani Prersident and down including Army, Intelligence etc are the prime movers of international terror.
Another point made by the author is that the war should be carried out in the opponent’s territory. “The aggressor was always met and destroyed in his own territory.” The ‘aggressor’ is anyone who stands in the way of Jihad.
Where does terrorism come in the picture?
“The Quranic military strategy thus enjoins us to prepare ourselves for war to the utmost in order to strike terror into the heart of the enemy, known or hidden…”
It doesn’t stop here, for Brigadier Malik assures us:
“Terror struck into the hearts of the enemy is not only a means, it is the end in itself. Once a condition of terror into the opponent’s heart is obtained, hardly anything is left to be achieved… Terror is not a means of imposing decision upon the enemy; it is the decision we wish to impose upon him.” (Original emphasis.)
http://www.americanthinker.com/articles.php?article_id=4667
The capture or killing of OSB would not even slow down the jihad in itself. But I see it as a barometer of the strength of the jihad.
OSB's continued success in hiding, when everyone in the world knows he is a wanted man, shows that Musharraf lacks the resolve to face the jihadists in Waziristan, shows that Bush is unwilling to force the issue, and shows that a majority of the Muslim world still favors the jihadists over Westerners (it only takes one Muslim to recognize him and turn him in; that one has not existed for 4 years).
As long as OSB, al-Zawahiri, al-Zarqawi, and other figurehead leaders can stay hidden at will, we know we are not winning the hearts and minds of the world. The jihadists are.
It will be most interesting in Puckystan if Musharaff is taken out. That will be the real test of what`s happening or how stable it is.
Military and political leaders from Pakistan speak different languages at different places. The US may like to continue patronising the greatest patron of the terrorism in the current decade of the 21st century for the reasons beteer known to the policy makers in Washington, but the fact remains that Pakistan continues to blackmail the US. Earlier, the US closed her eyes towards terrorism. Rather she supported terrorism in various areas of the world in the name of containing communism. Following 9/11, the US has started Islam-bashing exercise. Such approach was as wrong as the patronising terrorism under one pretext or the other was. The need of the hour is to have a holistic approach and to encourage saner elements among the Muslims to take a fight against obscurantist forces.
Call your Congressman and tell them NO!
AMERIPHOBE ALERT!
http://capwiz.com/cair/callalert/index.tt?alertid=8054916&type=CO
ENHANCE UNDERSTANDING: Urge U.S. Representatives to Sign 2005 Ramadan Resolution
Ramadan is expected to begin soon, and a resolution acknowledging Muslims is circulating in the U.S. House of Representatives. A resolution expresses the opinion of Congress on an issue, but is not law.
This resolution is an important tool for encouraging dialogue between Muslims and their elected officials, as well as enhancing understanding of the Islamic faith.
After reading the resolution, enter your zip code and call your Representative. Ask him or her to sign the resolution.
Full Text of Resolution Recognizing the Commencement of Ramadan
“Recognizing the commencement of Ramadan, the Islamic holy month of fasting and spiritual renewal, and commending Muslims in the United States and throughout the world for their faith.
“Whereas since the terrorist attacks on the United States on September 11, 2001, threats and incidents of violence have been directed at law-abiding, patriotic Americans of African, Arab, and South Asian descent, particularly members of the Islamic faith;
“Whereas on September 14, 2001, the House of Representatives passed a concurrent resolution condemning bigotry and violence against Arab-Americans, American Muslims, and Americans from South Asia in the wake of the terrorist attacks in New York, New York, and Washington, D.C.;
“Whereas it is estimated that there are approximately 1,500,000,000 Muslims worldwide;
“Whereas Ramadan is the holy month of fasting and spiritual renewal for Muslims worldwide, and is the 9th month of the Muslim calendar year; and
“Whereas the observance of the Islamic holy month of Ramadan commences at dusk on October 15*, 2005, and continues for one lunar month: Now, therefore, be it
“Resolved, That—
“(1) during this time of conflict, in order to demonstrate solidarity with and support for members of the community of Islam in the United States and throughout the world, the House of Representatives recognizes the Islamic faith as one of the great religions of the world; and
“(2) in observance of and out of respect for the commencement of Ramadan, the Islamic holy month of fasting and spiritual renewal, the House of Representatives acknowledges the onset of Ramadan and expresses its deepest respect to Muslims in the United States and throughout the world on this significant occasion.”
*Note: This is an early copy, Ramadan 2005 is expected to commence October 4th or 5th.
When was McVeigh ever remotely that popular?
Exactly. McVeigh is what he is- total, extreme fringe. Yet that is what the likes of giaour would have everyone believe is the underlying mindset of All Christians...
And note that it is mostly the Left that insists we capture Bin Laden. It would be a nice Symbolic/Psychologic blow to terrorism- but it would hardly end it.
"When was McVeigh ever remotely that popular?"
Good question for the moral equivalencer who haunts dhimmiwatch.org.
One more time, McVeigh was not a Christian. Sure, he was baptized a Catholic, but for most of his adult life he considered himself an Agnostic. He took services at the end to hedge his bets. He never once claimed he acted because God told him to. Was he ever as popular as Bin Laden? In Europe he was. I distinctly remember on the eve of his execution there were massive protests in Europe demanding he not be executed, which is the same as demanding his release. I guess it doesn't matter who kills Americans as long as they are killed. No, killing Bin Laden will not end terrorism, but it will send the message that they can run, but they'll only go to Allah too tired for the 72 virgins.
Balrog, that has Ever been my point. McVeigh, Hitler, whomever.... they do NOT, and Never will, respresent Christianity. However much people like kj want them to. He is CINO and that is It.
Actually, McVeigh was an agnostic ultra-Leftist.
The poem he requested for his day of death is an obviously agnostic modern poem. A rabid Christian would have chosen something out of the Bible, perhaps the Revelation of John.
Gary said "And note that it is mostly the Left that insists we capture Bin Laden."
I have to admit I'd like to see Bin Laden's head on a pike on the front lawn of the White House. I guess that makes me a communist.
Special guest~ Where did I suggest anyone on the Left is communist? Are you having guilt feelings, or just feeling the need to put words in my mouth that I neither said nor believe?
I'd like to see his head on a pike, also. But do you really think that will mean a tinker's damn to anyone who believes 'pro-jihadist misinformation'?
Critics of the Bush Admin will gloss it over and MoveOn to other criticisms.
Gary and Special_Guest:
The Left ain't demanding that bin Laden be caught. They merely like to point out that invading both Afghanistan and Iraq has failed to result in bin Laden's capture and, therefore, there was no point in doing either.
No, if anything, the sentiments on the anti-regime change Left (which is, unquestionably, the majority) are if it is anti-American, it's a good thing. Hence, they are cheering on George Al-Gallawi who has been shilling his book on this side of the Atlantic instead of being nauseated by this prime piece of slime who is cosying up to Bashir Al-Assad now that Saddam is sitting in a jail cell.
But I have to ask myself, having lived through the protests against the War in Vietnam, what we might reasonably conclude from the waning numbers protesting Iraq. Could it be that, although they would rather die than admit it, that Saddam was an SOB who needed to be deposed, and yes, there really is a problem in the Middle East that has nothing to do with Israel's existence?
I disagree that it isn't important to catch bin Laden. That's crazy.
If the jihadist leader is captured and subjected to US legal action (as in a lifetime sentence or capital punishment) a realization COULD set in among these people that Islam may not in fact be divine and invincible. And that a jihad victory is not inevitable.
But, as long as bin Looney Tunes is free to inflict more madness and murder as the ringleader of global jihad, the Islamic world will continue to deify both he and the supposed glory of jihad. And don't think bin Looney Tunes won't milk this adulation for everything he can get out of it--he WILL. Once he is apprehended there is a chance that a sense of caution will insert itself into the minds of the jihadists. Because they will KNOW we can take out a jihad icon--and puncture the allegedly divine glory of jihad warfare in so doing. Even if it's only one at a time.
AnilM writes: Following 9/11, the US has started Islam-bashing exercise. Such approach was as wrong as the patronising terrorism under one pretext or the other was. The need of the hour is to have a holistic approach and to encourage saner elements among the Muslims to take a fight against obscurantist forces.
I'm curious, what Islam-bashing exercise are you referring to? If anything, Bush and company have been engaged in an Islam love-fest. What kind of holistic approach do you think the US should engage in? And what saner elements do you have in mind? You do realize that it is people like Musharraf (who you rightly criticized) who are considered as the 'saner elements' amongst the muslims.
Gary said "Where did I suggest anyone on the Left is communist?"
You didn't, it's called extrapolation. If Lefties want to capture Bin Laden, and I want something worse for him, that would place me beyond the Left (at least in your mind), i.e. into communism.
"Are you having guilt feelings..."
Uhh, no, thanks for asking.
Bottom line, if (pick your favorite Democratic politician) had said what Bush said: "I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about [Osama Bin Laden]", conservatives' heads would have exploded in apoplexy. Bush says that the person who killed 3000 Americans is not really of concern to him, and y'all nod your heads and mumble an "mmm-hhh". It's a bit surreal, that's all I'm saying.
Taken out of context, of course. But that's to be expected.
is this what you were taking out of context, special guest?
'Q But don't you believe that the threat that bin Laden posed won't truly be eliminated until he is found either dead or alive?
THE PRESIDENT: Well, as I say, we haven't heard much from him. And I wouldn't necessarily say he's at the center of any command structure. And, again, I don't know where he is. I -- I'll repeat what I said. I truly am not that concerned about him. I know he is on the run. I was concerned about him, when he had taken over a country. I was concerned about the fact that he was basically running Afghanistan and calling the shots for the Taliban.
But once we set out the policy and started executing the plan, he became -- we shoved him out more and more on the margins. He has no place to train his al Qaeda killers anymore. And if we -- excuse me for a minute -- and if we find a training camp, we'll take care of it. Either we will or our friends will. That's one of the things -- part of the new phase that's becoming apparent to the American people is that we're working closely with other governments to deny sanctuary, or training, or a place to hide, or a place to raise money.
And we've got more work to do. See, that's the thing the American people have got to understand, that we've only been at this six months. This is going to be a long struggle. I keep saying that; I don't know whether you all believe me or not. But time will show you that it's going to take a long time to achieve this objective. And I can assure you, I am not going to blink. And I'm not going to get tired. Because I know what is at stake. And history has called us to action, and I am going to seize this moment for the good of the world, for peace in the world and for freedom.'