An incredibly ill-conceived "gesture of healing and bonding." From the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, with thanks to Charles.
WASHINGTON -- It will serve as a living tribute. With each wind, each breeze, a set of chimes housed in a 93-foot tower will create a different song in memory of the 40 people who sacrificed their lives trying to save the lives of others.Four years after United Airlines Flight 93 crashed into a reclaimed strip mine near Shanksville, Somerset County, on Sept. 11, 2001, the design that will serve as the national memorial was unveiled here yesterday in the U.S. Chamber of Commerce Hall of Flags.
"Crescent of Embrace" will feature a Tower of Voices, containing 40 wind chimes -- one for each passenger and crew member who died -- and two stands of red maple trees that will line a walkway caressing the natural bowl shape of the land. Forty separate groves of red and sugar maples will be planted behind the crescent, and a black slate wall will mark the edge of the crash site, where the remains of those who died now rest.
As the black cloak that had hidden the winner was removed, a collective gasp came from those gathered, who then rose to their feet to applaud...
The winning designers, Paul and Milena Murdoch of Los Angeles, called being selected "an incredible honor."...
The idea of the Crescent of Embrace, Murdoch said, is to be a gesture of healing and bonding. The crescent marks the edge of the land, which will remain largely untouched...
Next: raise a "Swastika of embrace" over Dachau.
I hope someone has the civic spirit and courage to blow up this abomination. If I remember rightly, this is the plane that crashed because heroic passengers fought back against the jihadidst hijackers, even though they knew it would cost them their lives. With this choice, the scum involved are dancing over their graves. Once upon a time, good American citizens dealt with this sort of thing with tar, feathers and a rail.
Outrageous! As soon as it is erected, the trees should be burned to the ground. The muslims kill us, and suicidal leftist idiots commemorate their islamic symbols as a reward! I'd like to get my hands on this Murdoch's phone number or email.
Paolo,
You are correct. This is the plane that crashed because the passengers fought back.
"Once upon a time, good American citizens dealt with this sort of thing with tar, feathers and a rail." - Ah, the good old days.
I for one find this design truly offensive. I completely agree with the idea of making a memorial so that those who did fight back and lost their lives will be honored, but to use an Islamic symbol to do so is a slap in the face.
Has political correctness gone mad? Who are these closet Islamists who had the gall to even use such a word as Crescent to represent American heros who gave their lives that others may live.
Are they so idiotic to use an Islamic symbol to honor the dead heros? Either they are utterly stupid or arrogant to even think of this. Damn it, dont we have anyone who is capable of sensitivity to the dead? We may has well invite the chief Mullahs to inaugrate this project and give their "blessing".
Sickening. How can they be so insensitive?, so naive?, so stupid?, so ignorant? so arrogant?
Whats next? The memorial for the Beslan school will be a bronze statue of a jackboot stamping on a childs face?
Or for Londonistan we could have a collection of human limbs in a perspex bath of formaldihyde perched on top of a "Hamas" green double decker bus, parked outside Stockwell station?
How about a Halal butchers knife mounted tastefully on a Koran as a tribute to all the people beheaded in Iraq by Muslim fascists?
Someone find & publish an email / web-address for these "designers". They need an eduction, amongst other things.
Repugnant. Insensitive. Disgusting.
The jury that selected this design included family members of the dead. Are they so oblivious and clueless? I shake my head in exasperation.
(education)...quite a nice slip during my rant really.
They forgot to invite the Atta family? How could they be so insensitive?
In Britain we pride ourselves on "sensitivity", so we are inviting the families of 7/7 bombers to the commemeration event.
Next we will be giving them knighthoods. Look out in next years "honours" list.
What with the Straw speech and this, I'm so angry I cannot think straight.
OK
However there is another way to look this crescent symbol. Just as Aushswitz is maintained as a symbol of the Holocaust, the crescent symbol for the Flight 93 memorial will always remind all in the future, that the catastrophe of 9/11 was done in the name of islam.
Doesn't this tell everyone how ignorant Americans are about Islam. If it was my child or mate who died, I would have studied everything I could about Islam and found the truth, and would be raising hell abou this design. Apparently NO ONE bothered to do any research, and that is a sad statement about America and its people. It could have been a circle to represent the 'continuity of life', anything but a crescent, the symbol of the Islamic empire.
albion posted: Or for Londonistan we could have a collection of human limbs in a perspex bath of formaldihyde perched on top of a "Hamas" green double decker bus, parked outside Stockwell station?
Oh that would be in the Tate gallery, and win a prize as well.
Great visuals, albion!
I am an illustrator (as my username implies) and designer and I was once told by a close friend that if I ever wanted to get a name for myself, I should do something truly blasphemous –speak out against religion and you can get a lot of people talking about you almost instantly.
Do you mind if I take your ideas and run with them? I imagine that the more sickening and the more disgusting and the more I can piss people off, I’ll likely gain attention, wealth, fame, etc.
Insensitive, ignorant, arrogant …yes, the final designs on this may be all of those things and more. It’s really a shame that most people (even the families of the victims) don’t understand the true nature of the enemy or even who the enemy is. ‘Crescent of Embrace’ reeks of surrender to Islam to those in the know, and those who are simply ignorant, just goes even further to point out to the rest of us just how unwilling this nation is to accept that there’s a war going on that doesn’t involve ‘terrorists’ but rather defense against Islam and the murderous, inhumane jihadist ideology.
Here's someone who gets it:
A Somerset County preacher vowed to fight the design of the Flight 93 National Memorial, insisting that the crescent pathway used in the design is a symbol of Islam.
"This is a memorial to the terrorists who killed those people, not a memorial to the folks who died there innocently," said the Rev. Ron McRae, leader of the Bible Anabaptist Church near Jerome, about 55 miles southeast of Pittsburgh.
I hope he is successful.
illustr8rg8r
Help yourself. You Illustrate it, I'll Market it
(I did actually have about 100 more of those that popped into my head all at once - decency actually gave me pause for thought.....)
Best regards
Albion
Here's the contact page for the NPS Flight 93 Memorial:
http://www.nps.gov/flni/pphtml/contact.html
Someone suggested contacting the jerks responsible for the design, but they're probably arty-farty types who don't care what us common riff-raff think about their work.
From my posts on here you should know that I have no love for Islam, but I would ask you to hold on a second, I had a look at it and it looks rather stunning.
More importantly you can see it another way, it is a red crescent and it is showing that the embrace of Islam means death and bloodshed. Is the colour red an accident or by design.
Art is supposed to create different feelings in you, different interpretations, we as civilised people should see more to it than just a crescent, Islamofacists hate art, to me it represents the bloody embrace of those that love death, thrawted by those that love life.
I am pretty sure that some twat picked it for the crescent to try to reach out to those that can not be reached out to, but I think there is more meaning to it than that.
If you wish to send an email to the people who designed this ever so sensitive memorial, here are some links in a link to LGF.
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=17441#c0543
My daughter was gang raped by these(not 9/11) mindless morons and there is no way that that the likes of ia786 or KT should be allowed any where near it, so why?
Why do allow islam to preach their hatred against us like this?
Maybe its about time the democratic process was really allowed to happen.
I just don't understand why WE are letting it happen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We vote these polies in then if they don't what we say the its time to go ,goodbye!!!!
Its only going to get worse.............
No opposition was likely expressed to the design because to have done so would necessarily have involved making such observations as "a crescent is a symbol of Islam" to which others would ask -- what's your point?
And since that point would involve saying something about the connection of Islam and its teachings to the behavior of the 19 Muslim hijackers who were prompted by those teachings, and that simply cannot be done nowadays, at least not in official government circles, there was no doubt a good deal of completely unfree and inhibited conversation, as there must be everywhere nowadays.
Oh, I wonder if there was a Muslim on the commission, whose mere presence might have prevented such a point from being raised? After all, the presence of Muslims, "nice" Muslims, "moderate" Muslims, the very best Muslims, in high offices simply inhibit -- as if there were not inhibitions aplenty -- any discussion of the most important questions, including the nature of Islam, the beliefs that it inculcates, the likely effect (or non-effect) of bringing "democracy" or ending poverty or throwing Israel to the wolves in carefully-calibrated slices, in limiting the effect of Muslm power, Muslim money and Da'wa and demographic conquest.
That is a problem. Shall we be limited in our analysis of Islam by the presence in the room of a Muslim, because it seems impolite to offend? Imagine the desire not to offend, the desire not to seem impolite or mean-minded, affecting the most important matters -- matters of life, death, and the preservation of mental and artistic freedom.
Possibly there was no Muslim present to offend. Possibly it was just a case where no one wished to possibly offend the Current Idols of the Free Marketplace of Ideas. Or possibly, quite possibly, it was simply a question of not giving the matter thought.
In the meantime, if you have a croissant in your breakfast's future, consider its origin: an attempt by bakers in Vienna to memorialize, through raising dough of another kind than what all these Memorialists think of, that would emblemize the turning back of the malignant and the turbaned Turk at the gates of Vienna in 1683.
Daffersd posted :More importantly you can see it another way, it is a red crescent and it is showing that the embrace of Islam means death and bloodshed. Is the colour red an accident or by design.
If this design goes ahead, that is how we should see it. I posted something along lines. You go further and better.
If this design is accepted as the final one, and it was generally accepted as the way you describe it should be, then what bet that the memeorial will be re-designed?
DP111,
I noticed your post, I thought that there was more to the design when I looked at it and the red crescent sorta stuck out rather a lot.
Bearing in mind Daffersd's and my post, before any emails are sent, perhaps one needs to think this over.
If you wish that the design is changed, then email the designer, how much you like the design, as it perfectly symbolises the fact that not only the atrocity of Flight 93 but 9/11, was perpetrated in the name of islam. Compliment him and his team, as well as the selection committee, for being courageous and forthright in the face of PC.
Whichever way they go now, their goose is cooked.
In addition to sending comments to the NPS, contact the Secretary of the Interior about this design. http://www.doi.gov/
It also helps to contact your Senators and Representatives, since they give the Secretary his/her marching orders.
Could the designer really be that ignorant?
Daffersd:
There is uproar on LGF over this issue. I have quoted your interpretation of this design over at LGF, which I believe is the right way to see it. I have also posted, that one needs to think this over before writing any emails.
If you want the design to be changed, do consider daffersd posting.
Then write to all concerned how much you appreciate the design. The blood red crescent of islam embracing the innocents in an embrace of death, so perfectly fits what happened on 9/11, as well as fitting the Jihad mentality of islam.
Congratulate the design team and the selection committee on their courageous and fearless decision in the face of Political correctness. Then see the design changed faster then you can wink.
But do think it over. There is much to what daffersd writes. The design is a work of art. If this design forever ties 9/11 to islam, then so much the better, just as the Swastika has become tied to the evil of the Holocaust.
So far 9/11 and all that happened on that fateful day, has been tied to bin Laden and al-Qaeda (those infamous tiny minority of extremist muslims). This design says something quite different. It is just a matter of which interpretation gets accepted.
Daffersd / DP111
Good thinking. Really good thinking.
LETS ALL DO IT!
Americans who FOUGHT BACK
Is there anything in this nauseating design that reminds people that it commermorates AMERICANS WHO FOUGHT BACK and were not led to their deaths like sheep?
I don't want to see psedo-therapeutic crap about "healing." Healing from what? This is so offensive to the brave men and women of Flight 93. Somehow I knew that people didn't have the GUTS to develop a memorial that was fitting for them.
I know that claiming that you are made physically ill is a rhetorical device, but, this does make me, physically ill.
Yikes! Is there no limit to the idiocy?
I have recovered from a serious GASP! I sent a quick e-mail to the reporter, she obviously doesn't know.
The red crescent is the sign of the Arabi moon! They've unknowingly made this sacred place the cap of a Muslim blood sacrifice. Facing the heavens in triumph. Look at the flags of Arabi. Look at what's atop the domes of the mosques reaching toward heaven. It's a prayer alright, an offering which honors Mohammad and Allah.
It's a shameful thing. They don't know what they have chosen. We have got to educate ourselves, please! They can't be allowed to go through with this.
Who are these Murdoch idiots? Any Moslem who is not in denial will know what it is. A symbol glorifying Allah. How far have we fallen? What spell are we under?
This is strange, it's more than secular, Carolynn, can I get a witness? They're playing around, they don't think we can lose this thing. Oh-my-God. I am so sick!
Thanks Jihadwatch, what a service you bring.I thought I was prepared for it all. I will 'activate' on this one. Silent observer, no more.
What did Henry Fonda say in the Battle of the Bulge? ...Well, they got me mad at em.
The remains of those brave non-muslims who fought so desperately with the muslim murderers on that plane are buried RIGHT BESIDE THE 'MEMORIAL' CRESCENT OF ISLAM.
THE WHOLE THING STINKS.
"The red crescent is the sign of the Arabi moon!"
Actually, the Islamic crescent is a symbol of both the crescent moon and the curved blade the jihad warriors used in centuries past, before they began using Infidel weapons & technology (bombs, airplanes, Russian rifles, etc.).
It's exasperating and supremely indicative of our politically correct times that Bush caused a global flack about using the word "crusade" in a perfectly legitimate and secularly innocuous way (one can, for example, have a "crusade" about cutting cholesterol out of one's diet) back when the Iraq invasion was being planned, and yet no one (except us, the only true "extremist" minority) bats an eye at actually including an indelible Crescent at a memorial for an attack by the Crescent-Believers.
An old obsolete word that bears reviving: Crescentade, modeled on the all-too-familiar and apologized-for word Crusade. -- Crescentade = Jihad.
"Whichever way they go now, their goose is cooked."
Posted by: DP111
This is my submission to the National Park Flight 93 Memorial website.
Greetings,
My name is Albion & I am an Englishman living in, not surprisingly, England.
I have just had the Flight 93 Memorial Crescent idea explained to me by an American friend over the Net.
I must say I do very much appreciate the bold, un-PC design. The blood red crescent of Islam clutching the innocents in an embrace of death perfectly mirrors the tragic events of 9/11, as well as fitting the Jihad mentality & Al Qaeda's literal interpretation of Islam.
Without being crass, & displaying great historical insight & dignity, you have perfectly encapsulated the grave situation the West, indeed the World, finds itself in from the threat of militant Islam. Such insightful memorial designs are extremely rare in this very politically correct age.
I am sure that the good, brave people who died that day would appreciate your designs subtle frankness & honesty.
Good luck & Best regards
Albion
Words Fail Me!
My email to the Park Service:
Posted on their Comment Board:
Flight 93 Memorial
I am absolutely speachless!
The winning Flight 93 Memorial commemorates who? The prposed memorial is clearly a tacit approval of Islam, the same murdering filth that took 3000 American lives!
How could you do this to the American people? Words fail me!
My Senators and Congressmen will be asked for a full investigation on your actions in the name of Islam!
http://www.nps.gov/flni/pphtml/contact.html
------------------
Flight 93 Memorial Supervisor - Joan Hanley
By Mail
National Park Service
109 West Main Street, Suite 104
Somerset, PA 15501-2035
By Phone
Superintendent - Flight 93 NMEM
(814) 443-4557
By Fax
(814)443-2180
--------------------
Park Service redirected me to Chris Martin, Public Relations, 412-952-6332.
I want the names, addresses, and phone numbers of all the Flight 93 memorial jurors who selected the winning design!
How many Muslims do you think are on the Jury?
I'm absolutely ballistic over this travesty in case you couldn't tell!
I don't know how many there are but we're going to find out!
Hugh
Thank you for the origins of "croissant". Wonderful. I shall now enjoy this light pastry far more then ever.
albion
Ho Ho Ho. Just terrific. Croissant (credit Hugh) wont melt in your mouth. They wont know which way to turn.
If they try to explain their point of view, you feign surprise, and write back that almost everyone you know, took the interpretation that you did. Then will be the time for righteous anger.
In the light of your post, I shall now modify mine ever so slightly.
My email
You may be receiving a lot of critical mail from Americans in response to the design of the Flight 93 memorial.
I though, support the design. The blood red crescent of Islam embracing innocents in death, is a perfect motif for what happened on that fateful day of 9/11.
It is my belief that it is the artist's duty to shock society from its pre-conceived notions about ideas and ideologies, whether they be secular or religious. In this age of PC, it is hard for the artist to do so without being accused of insensitivity.
I wish therefore to express my support for the courageous stand that you have taken.
I also like the idea of the crescent being portrayed by trees. God's good creation, beautiful, living, life giving (oxygen and all that) hopeful trees, which stand for the opposite of everything Islam represents.
To them a tree is something that will fail to shelter a Jew in the last days "Oh Moslem there is a Jew behind me, kill him"
To us they are "like a speading olive tree in God's house; for I trust in God's love etc" from Psalm 52 or the saying, When you plant a tree your grandchildren will thank you.
spreading olive tree.
Albion and DP111, perfect emails, I will send something similar, but have to go as wifey is getting tetchy about me and this Islam thing...
The only vandalism we're likely to see is the cresent being painted green in the night.
This is indeed a fitting memorial to those brave sauid jihadis who martyred themselves on Flight 93. (oh, were there some Americans on board too?)
But it does beg the question as to what a fitting memorial to the heros of Flight 93 should look like. I think the best way to commemorate these heros, who likely saved either the White House or the Capital from being devastated is to emulate them. They are us, or what we hope to be. Something to the effect "the fight for civilization began here!"
Architecture design teams reap in symbol and meaning in detail, we understand. I agree that intense discussion (must?) have taken place, and as said, chosen by a board. Nevertheless, this is what I perceive as if it jumps from the sorry soul...
"Embrace the Crescent" will feature a Tower of Voices, containing 40 wind chimes -- one for each passenger and crew member who died -- and two srands of red maple trees that will line a walkway "caressing" the natural bowl shape of the land. Forty separate groves of red and sugar maples will be planted "behind the crescent", and a black (flag) oh, slate wall will mark the edge of the crash site, where the remains of those who died now rest.
As the "black cloak that had hidden the winner" was removed, a collective gasp came from those gathered, who then rose to their feet to applaud.
One mans opinion, in these paranoid days: I wrote my Senator (not the above, ha ha) based on the advice here. I might have used "Embrace the..."
*****Just sent in to the National Park Service***
NPS.gov
I just wanted to let you know how insightful I think the design for the Flight 93 Memorial is.
It is a bold move on the part of the park service, in this decidedly PC day and age, to choose a design that so clearly indicts Islam for it's role in 9/11.
The bloody crescent embracing the final resting place of the victims strongly reminds us all of who the perpetrators of 9/11 were, and what religion they practiced. Bravo for standing up in the face of Politically Correct interests that may have watered-down this indictment of Islam.
Deported imam feels 'betrayed'
http://ansa.it/main/notizie/awnplus/english/news/2005-09-08_1212741.html
According to press reports, Bouchta threatened "bombs" against anyone who watched van Gogh's film .
Several members of the centre-left opposition have also condemned the Interior Minsistry's actions as a violation of human rights and dignity
The Left lost an idol. It has always been tied to controversial and terror-enabling 'imams'
demands grew for the government to expel another imam based in Bologna after he made controversial comments about suicide bombers and bin Laden .
Imam Nabil Bajoumi said in a television interview aired on Wednesday night that he did not condemn all suicide bombers, "particularly Palestinian ones" .
"They are fighting a war of freedom because in a country like Israel there are no civilians... and no-one is innocent, not even babies... A baby born in a country which attacks another country cannot be innocent," the imam said .
"As for bin Laden, he isn't wrong - as they fully realise in the United States - when he says that the Americans and bootlicking Western governments should get out of Arab countries," he said .
"This intolerable person should be kicked out of the country," said one AN lawmaker .
Mr. Pisanu, deport Mr. Bajoumi as soon as possible.
Brilliant note, DC Watson. I can just see them squirming.
C'mon, people, sometimes a crescent is just a crescent.
If the symbol of Islam were a circle or a square, would we be obligated not to use it?
I personally feel there's something of genius in co-opting their symbols for our purposes.
Take a chill pill, ya'll.
o/t Sept,9, 2005
Islamic-law plan sets off protests
By REBECCA COOK
The Associated Press
TORONTO — A proposal to let Ontario residents use Islamic law for settling family disputes drew protests yesterday in Canada and at some of its diplomatic sites in Europe.
The demonstrations were peaceful and generally small, ranging from a couple of dozen to a few hundred people, but organizers said they reflected growing concern over the province's stance on Islamic law, or sharia.
Ontario's provincial government has been reviewing a report recommending that sharia be allowed to settle Muslim family disputes such as divorce, and said it will soon make a decision.
"We will not tolerate the interference of religion in our justice system," said Homa Arjomand, who organized a protest in Toronto, the province's leading city.
In the western German city of Dusseldorf, about 25 people protested at the Canadian consulate.
Protest organizers said demonstrations were also scheduled in Ottawa, Montreal, Quebec, Vancouver, B.C., and some European cities.
About 300 people rallied in front of the Ontario legislative building, some of them shouting "Shame, shame!" as Arjomand quoted Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty's promise that sharia law in Canada would not compromise women's rights.
"Either he is naive, or he thinks people are stupid!" Arjomand said.
Ontario, the most populous province in Canada, has allowed Catholic and Jewish faith-based tribunals to settle family law matters on a voluntary basis since 1991. The practice got little attention until Muslim leaders demanded the same rights.
Now officials must decide whether to exclude one religion, or whether they should scrap the religious family courts altogether.
On the outskirts of the Toronto demonstration, pro-sharia activist Mubin Shaikh and his wife, Joanne Sijka, verbally sparred with protesters. Shaikh said the misuse of sharia doesn't mean it should be excluded from Canadian civil law.
"Abuse of the process is not a proof against a process, just as people wrongfully imprisoned is not a proof against Canadian law," Shaikh said.
Islamic-law plan sets off protests
By REBECCA COOK
The Associated Press
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TORONTO — A proposal to let Ontario residents use Islamic law for settling family disputes drew protests yesterday in Canada and at some of its diplomatic sites in Europe.
The demonstrations were peaceful and generally small, ranging from a couple of dozen to a few hundred people, but organizers said they reflected growing concern over the province's stance on Islamic law, or sharia.
Ontario's provincial government has been reviewing a report recommending that sharia be allowed to settle Muslim family disputes such as divorce, and said it will soon make a decision.
"We will not tolerate the interference of religion in our justice system," said Homa Arjomand, who organized a protest in Toronto, the province's leading city.
In the western German city of Dusseldorf, about 25 people protested at the Canadian consulate.
Protest organizers said demonstrations were also scheduled in Ottawa, Montreal, Quebec, Vancouver, B.C., and some European cities.
About 300 people rallied in front of the Ontario legislative building, some of them shouting "Shame, shame!" as Arjomand quoted Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty's promise that sharia law in Canada would not compromise women's rights.
"Either he is naive, or he thinks people are stupid!" Arjomand said.
Ontario, the most populous province in Canada, has allowed Catholic and Jewish faith-based tribunals to settle family law matters on a voluntary basis since 1991. The practice got little attention until Muslim leaders demanded the same rights.
Now officials must decide whether to exclude one religion, or whether they should scrap the religious family courts altogether.
On the outskirts of the Toronto demonstration, pro-sharia activist Mubin Shaikh and his wife, Joanne Sijka, verbally sparred with protesters. Shaikh said the misuse of sharia doesn't mean it should be excluded from Canadian civil law.
"Abuse of the process is not a proof against a process, just as people wrongfully imprisoned is not a proof against Canadian law," Shaikh said.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002482229_sharia09.html
I disagree Cato..the thing is a blight upon the memory of those brave Americans..and it appears to be exactly 'red crescent' dimensioned..
Well, disagreement is the lifeblood of democracy. I think the design is pretty cool. And I seriously doubt there is any intent on the part of the architects to disparage the dead.
It can be looked at in many ways, of course, but this is a battle I personally won't waste any time fighting. There are live jihadis out there, after all.
Otterfisher:
For what it's worth, the Globe and Mail in Toronto and Rogers Yahoo (an internet provider in Toronto) are running on-line polls regarding this issue. Keeping in mind that on-line polling is unscientific, the results for both polls are running about 95% against the sharia arbitration.
At Toronto's demonstration yesterday, I would estimate 2/3 of the crowd were women - mostly middle aged and I would guess to be either Liberal or soft NDP (socialist). This is one of McGuinty's core constituencies - Dalton McGuinty being the Liberal Premier of Ontario. I don't think he expected this type of reaction.
Cato,
Fine, but I think you are mistaken to shine this off as of no consequence..as Rebtex says elsewhere;
"That's how it all starts.,....inch by inch.
Allow this & the next thing you know, your kids are bobbin' like a jihadi on a rug at school because "It's not like it REALLY means anything"."
JohnB,
Thanks for the info..nice to see the people
are starting to raise their voices to their
Dhimmimasters..
otterfisher,
I'm not "shining this off," I just don't see it as something to get hysterical about.
One has to pick one's battles. We've already got a country full of sleeper cells, Osama is still out there spewing his threats, the President seems to have abdicated his "either you're with us or against us" stance, Israel is more or less abandoned to her own devices, the Iranians are charging ahead with their Manhattan Project, and I'm supposed to worry about what may or may not be an intentional reference to Islam in this memorial? As others have pointed out above, it could well be that the "embrace" is meant to show the Islamic chokehold that is facing the world. One can interpret things in many ways.
I certainly don't think this is the first step to my kids bobbin' on prayer mats. I mean, come on, get real!
I'd rather work on finding a replacement for Bush in 2008 who really knows what's going on and means what he or she says.
If the issue of the red crescent is something people will rally agianst, then use it, regardless of whether it's meaningless. If sharia in Ontario is something people are willing to act against, push that issue. If people will rally against the crescent, organize protests in your cities. If the committee relents and puts up something else, move on to the next issue. Always keep going.
The crescent itself is unimportant, but the rally is essential. Muslims in Ontario do not, one can be sure, care about "sharia lite." They care only about the foot in the door. Push back.
If one can get a number of people to protest against the crescent, it is a good thing, not because the crescent is good or bad but because it involves people taking an active interest in the larger campaign. If people will show up at a rally against Islamic Motherhood it would be a good thing.
If people here will go to rallies and demonstrations they'll get a feel for it, and we can organize our own. If we can make our own demonstrations we can make our own political party. Passive people will find themselves in camps. We need leaders, and to find them we need public rallies and events from which leaders will emerge.
Smash the crescent!
Does this mean I can't have a crescent moon on my outhouse anymore?
lifted from another venue,by Maximus Delirious;
"You've all seemed to miss something, from the memorial website:
The Flight 93 National Memorial Design Competition has been funded through the generous support of the Heinz Endowments and the John S. and James L. Knight Foundation.
Does anyone recall hearing these allegations during the election....
Teresa Heinz Kerry has financed the secretive Tides Foundation to the tune of more than $4 million over the years.......
Tides has also given grant money to the Council for American Islamic Relations. Ostensibly a “Muslim civil rights group,” CAIR is in fact one of the leading anti-anti-terrorism organizations within the Wahhabi Lobby, with links to Hamas. CAIR regularly opposes and demonizes American efforts to fight terrorism, claiming, for instance, that Homeland Security measures are responsible for an undocumented surge in “hate crimes.” ......
The Tides Foundation has funded a number of the pillars of the radical legal establishment. Chief among these is the National Lawyers Guild, which began as a Commnist front organization and is proud of its lineage. At its recent convention last October, the concluding speaker was Lynne Stewart, an indicted terrorist NLG lawyer arrested for helping her client – convicted 1993 World Trade Center bombing mastermind Sheikh Omar Abdel Rahman – communicate with his terrorist cells in Egypt.
Would betcha money that the Heinz Foundations were involved in selecting the final monument...."
Cato, on the outhouse would be appropriate..
Crescentade -- "A religious war carried on... under the behalf of Islam. noun: crescentader."
-- Webster's Unabridged Dictionary, 1913.
P.S.: The same dictionary defines "Islamism" as synonymous with "Islam".
Ah, the good old days, before Political Correctness!
Correction to the above: "...under the behalf of Islamism."
(Hence my postscript.)
Overjoyed liberals like this typically use exaggerations and abstraction to try and persuade others to listen to untested opinions.
Yeah, people are 'hysterical' --- you maybe.
HERE IS THE IMAGE
Looks more like a LARGE RED crescent with a symbolic STAR reference.
More spin-doctoring. This person probably failed every science class they ever took.
Yeah, MILLIONS of people are going to see your outhouse that is dedicated to ... oh, that's right NO ONE.
Please get a dictionary and look up the word 'correlation.'
And maybe take time to listen instead.
It's called 'Dhimmi Watch' and you for one are looking the other way.
Cato the Elder:
Re: "Does this mean I can't have a crescent moon on my outhouse anymore?"
Sure if it's like this one.
http://www.cartoon-crn.com/advisory.htm
Damn...I just tried sending my little e-mail of disgust and ended up with "page not available"----story of my life, I suppose. Damn. So eloquent yet verbose.
Jim, I was able to send e-mail to this address:
waso-nrpc_natureandscience@nps.gov
This may be an opportunity to commemorate the actions of those aboard flight 93. If each time that this symbol of Islamic domination is erected Americans then tear it down. Those that went down fighting will be remembered.
My brother has perhaps a more pragmatic solution. To be seen here
http://maccusgermanis.blogspot.com/
What is it with "artists" these days? Holes in the ground and black slabs. This artist knows exactly what the connotations are. This cannot be allowed to stand...this is a distinct dhimmi slow kiss...ugh!
I like your design, MaccusGermanis . LOL
Wow, heroes honored with a symbol of the religious fanatics that took the plane down in the first place... a gesture of healing and bonding so the designer says??? Who was in charge of selecting and administering such a slap in the face? Pardon the gruel thought, but the blood of those heroes soaked that field 4 years ago, the ground where they died still carries a part of them- making it a burial ground in some regards, you don’t bury your heroes under the symbol of their killers. I think an American flag designed in shrubs and trees proudly waving the message of freedom- freedom Flight 93 passengers were fighting for and protecting after they discovered the intentions of the hijackers. A flag that stands for freedom as opposed to the oppressive Islamic symbol which tried to bring this country to its knees- their disdain for America shown not only on September 11 but flaunted in many other numerous plots before and after that terrible day. The people of our nation said they would never forget… Never forget the loved ones lost and lives torn apart. We don’t have to forget, political correctness and actions like this force us to believe somehow we should forgive, apologize for being Americans and move on- on to the next time we are attacked and wounded. The jurors said it offers tranquility, beauty, and SILENCE, if Flight 93’s passengers exhibited SILENCE September 11 there is no telling how many more lives it would have cost us. Keeping SILENT on such an outrage to the memories of Flight 93 heroes would be a further travesty… Let’s see how much NOISE we can make!!!
The 911 families approved… Oh, yes!
Some of the 911 families come from certain Socioeconomic-political stratums with an obvious radical leftist slant. I have seen a few at more than one occasion prostitute the memory of their relatives for expedient political stances, especially during the election, and the war in Iraq debate. Undoubtedly, these people are not the family members of the brave firefighters, policemen, and the average poor innocent Joes. Unfortunately, the shameful few are leftist-activist-types, joining action groups, committees, and plastering their faces in front of cameras. Yup, for every Cindy Sheehan there are thousands of silent mothers that do not share her point of view.
perhaps the designers intended
the red crescent to represent
the arrival of "Islam's Bloody Borders"
in a field in the United States.
OBL certainly did.
i don't think he had a "reconciling" agenda.
there is something *nuanced*(ugh)
and as a result,a bit sinister in this design:
experienced from the ground,the overall configuration will not be apprehended...
ie one will experience walking along a curved path with trees....and not "a crescent".
as a design device this is both workable and pleasant.
on the ground,it is benign,
unobjectionable,
unnoticed,even.
one could even compare this aspect to the hijackers,
living next door to americans,before boarding the flights the morning of Sept. 11.
"oh,Mr. Atta? he was such a nice man,always so polite..."
shudder.
____________________________________
where "the crescent" becomes expressive
and laden with *content*,ie becomes SYMBOLIC,
happens in two places..in two ways:
1) the designers SPECIFICALLY called it
a crescent...not "an arc"...not "an incomplete circle".
"the crescent" was INTENTIONALLY CHOSEN on several levels.
why?
WHY??
2) the BIG figure of the geometry will be seen from the air...
a very creepy thought in itself.
(were i an airline pilot, i'd object to this
land-bound "billboard" reminder during every over-flight of PA)
this aspect of BIGNESS is also usually associated with IMPORTANT messages ie SOCIETAL messages,which again,imo,emphasizes the WRONG content,the WRONG MESSAGE.
(unless you're an Islamist).
the most disappointing aspect of this memorial is that it is all about celebrating passiveness and reflection...about SADNESS.
"listen to those beautiful wind-chimes"...swoon.
it says nothing about ACTION.
or COURAGE.
or DECISIVENESS.
or SACRIFICE.
those people on Flight 93 got
a leg up on the situation thru timely information,
(sort of like Robert's sites and ongoing
efforts to educate the public)
and they ACTED on it.
don't be embarassed by the people who would mock your objections to the designers' ignorant and inappropriate choice of form,symbolism,and language to commemorate this site.
or by the people who cynically say
"sometimes a crescent is only a crescent".
the site IS symbolic.
symbols DO matter.
the public
IS the intended audience for "the Message".
you gut tells you it's wrong?
trust your gut.
the design that is chosen will stand for many years.
as NYT war reporter Steven Vincent said,before being murdered in Basra,Iraq: "LANGUAGE MATTERS".
in a religious/ideological war:
"SYMBOLS MATTER".
Islam does not practice "religious tolerance".
Islam does not "turn the other cheek".
I strongly agree with the late Stephen Vincent. Language matters. Gumshoe added, "Symbols matter." Why couldn't the memorial have been named, "Arch of Embrace." Or, why didn't the architects made the memorial a circle, saying something like, "In unity, comes strength." Just as the Muslims have kicked and screamed anytime the word "crusade" is used, so should the 9/ll families object to the word "crescent." Isn't a group, in a similar vein, trying to get a museum built at the NYC site whose theme is, "America is a long time abuser of many groups." Thank God, I did not lose any family members in the 9/ll attacks. If I had, I think that I would buy a headstone in my hometown, have words put on it that I am comfortable with and that I felt honors my dead family member and skip the public memorials.
Cato the Elder: "I'm not "shining this off," I just don't see it as something to get hysterical about.
One has to pick one's battles."
Our battle is with islam, and it crescent symbol, ANYTIME, ANYWHERE, ANYPLACE. One place the battle raged is Shanksville, PA. I cannot believe you are so insouciant about this 'memorial' that has become, through this design, dedicated to the mass murderers who perpetrated this actrocity on American soil.
The level of ignorance about Islam in this country is stunning. One would think that more American (and other Westerners) would have made it their business to become educated about Islam and informed about the deleterious historical and contemporary effect that this ideology has had on free peoples. Yes, symbols and language do count.
Is the artist ignorant or sympathetic to the Islamist cause? To place a blood-red crescent on this place or any other on free lands is the same as claiming that territory as one would when planting a flag.
The competition for this memorial design was funded by none other than the Heinz Foundation.
That explains some of the lunacy.
I tried leaving messages at both of the nps sites given above without success. Anybody getting through?
I have heard there is a muzzy fetish about red being the color of the devil - if that is so, maybe a red crescent gives muzzies the creeps.
Jimmy Bones,
No, I could not leave a message on the NPS' website, either.
As for the color red thing, doesn't sound kosher to me. They call their version fo the Red Cross the Red Crescent.
Cato, Rick is right in that our battle has to be waged in many places, and in many ways. I cannot do much about Iran's nuclear weapons program. But I can, and do, ask every pharmacist in every store I visit for potassium iodide tablets.
They usually tell me they have potassium gluconate. I correct them, and I tell them I need 75 tablets, 130 milligrams each, potassium iodide, for my fallout shelter. I remind them that our government has said "it is a matter of when, not if" and the muslims intend to set off at least one nuclear device in an American city. I tell them I want the tablets to avoid uptake of radioactive iodine, that I want the tablets for long-term storage, etc.
By this time, I have their attention. They never have the tablets, which makes them start looking in their stocklists. Some have the liquid, some can order a powder, most say it is available by prescription only(!!!). I push a little about the "religion of peace" and if they seem more interested, but ignorant, I recommend one of Robert's books. By this time, there is usually at least one person who is trying to overhear the conversation. I get taken very seriously if I am wearing a suit and tie. That skirmish is a purely propaganda operation. I know that even if they don't buy the book (and most won't) they will go home and tell at least one person what happened at the store that day. And the next time they hear about a nuclear weapons program, they will remember the meeting.
And, yes, you can still have a crescent moon on the outhouse. For better effect, put a little spire on top and mount the crescent on that. Your toilet house will then look like a little mosque or minaret. LOL
Sorry, I didn't mean to be so off-topic. I was trying to give an example of fighting the fight in many ways. I agree fully about sending emails, faxes, etc., to protest dhimmi behavior. And I, too, see this memorial as an insult to all Americans and their defenders on flight 93. We need to make converts as fast as we can.