UK's Straw: What Clash of Civilizations?

The fact that Mr Straw is Jewish makes those comments even worse.

My mother has a gorgeous book on her coffee table. It shows page after page of Israel's contributions to the world in the areas of medicine, science and technology.

Contrast that with the paucity of contributions by the Muslim world. Centuries ago, it is claimed, they gave us algebra...and we've been paying for it dearly ever since. Like the old Janet Jackson song goes, "What Have You Done for me Lately?"--and I don't mean death, destruction and a novel use for quilted vests.

"Arab peoples developed the mathematical foundations on which the digital world is based."

There is a very scientificaly based article on that fabulation on
http://www.libertyvox.com/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=5

SCIENCES ET ISLAM , PAR RUDI

Unfortunately only in French...

In a display of unintentional irony, Straw called the Iranian President's speech to the General Assembly yesterday "disappointing and unhelpful."
http://today.reuters.co.uk/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-09-18T084213Z_01_HO829657_RTRUKOC_0_UK-NUCLEAR-IRAN-BRITAIN.xml

Is the man a complete dolt, or just so freaked up by the jihad that there is now a complete disconnect between his brain and his mouth?

`Is the man a complete dolt, or just so freaked up by the jihad that there is now a complete disconnect between his brain and his mouth?`-
Good grounds for commital or dismissal.

Wait a minute, is the strawman encouraging more jihad so `firmer control` measures can come into play? If so, he`s not being intelligent about it.

No fundamental difference between the Islamic world and the West! Who's he trying to kid? What's he been smokin'? What's he been readin'?

This man, if he really and truly believes this, is not up to the position he now holds.

This is surely a manifestation of not only extremely politically-correct thinking, but also of the politics of FEAR!

They say that if a lie is said often enough, it becomes accepted as the truth. In this case, it won't be, for people are beginning to learn the truth about Islam and the intentions of Muslims worldwide.

Islam is making inroads into the Western world at each and every turn. If we do nothing to thwart its advance, we'll be done for.

It really would be helpful to us all, and reassuring to say the least, if we had leaders who showed us that they fully understand the gravity of the threat Islam is posing the West today.

This man neither understands Islam nor the threat that it poses the free world; therefore, he should step down and make room for someone who understands not only what is going on, but who understands the gravity and dimensions of the developing situation, too. That would be more comforting for all who are in the know.

His utterances apropos of Islam are utterly ridiculous. So ridiculous, in fact, that they wouldn't bear thinking about, except that they are coming from Britian's Foreign Secretary. That makes them dangerous!

Straw lives down to his name as he demonstrates that his head is full of straw!

I do not believe Mr Straw is Jewish. My understanding is that there are now no Jews holding senior, or even middle rank positions in the Labour Party or the UK government. Whereas there are several in the Conservative Party, including its current leader.

This shift started to happen during Mrs Thatcher's time but is doubtless encouraged by the fact that Jews are not now particularly welcome in left-wing circles. Think of it as the polite face of anti-Semitism in contrast to the vigorous hatred (and dhimmitude) espoused by Ken Livingstone, George Galloway and such like persons.

The link regarding Islam's role in science is messed up. The correct URL is:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/007439.php

Thanks Viking5

Here are all of the corrected links in order of appearance:

BBC Link

Straw's skewed history link

Evidence link

londongirl:

The fact that Straw is Jewish means that he is in the worst possible position to be anything but ultraPC about the Muslim world. He may also be operating under the old Ashkenazic Jewish shibboleth held up to European Christians as to why they couldn't be as tolerant of Jews as the Muslims were.

"Foreign Secretary Jack Straw has said there is no fundamental difference between the Islamic world and the West. He told the United Nations Assembly, meeting in New York, that Arab peoples developed the mathematical foundations on which the digital world is based."

This statement disqualifies Jack Straw from further consideration as anything but the complete idiot he is.

Where shall we begin?

On what basis does he assert that "there is no fundamental difference between the Islamic world and te West." All of Islam is based on a "fundamental difference" between Believer and Unbeliever, the Lands of the Believers (dar al-Islam), and the Lands of the Infidels, the House of War, where Islam is not yet triumphant and Muslims do not yet rule (dar al-harb), and between the two there must be unending hostility and war until the first swallows up the latter.

The texts -- Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira -- confirm this, in hundreds and hundreds of passages, and in the general attitutdes and atmospherics that such passages give rise to.

Has Jack Straw read any of this? Who is explaining Islam to him? Who? Has he called Ann Lambton in Durham? J. B. Kelly in southwestern France? Or Bernard Lewis, formerly of the University of London, and sometime Adviser, directly and indirectly, to Cheney and others.

And has Jack Straw, who cannot shake his every N.U.S. cliche about the world, needs to study the history of Islamic conquest, and more than Islamic conquest, the history of what befell the non-Muslim peoples -- Christians, Jews, Zoroastrians, Hindus, Buddhists -- in the lands conquered by Muslims. If he does so, if he reads two or three books, say, by Bat Ye'or, if he reads Robert Spencer's "The Myth of Islamic Tolerance," if he reads Andrew Bostom's compilation of what both Muslim scholars have written, over a 1000 year-period, about Jihad, its necessity, its meaning, and what Western scholars of Islam, writing before the inhibitions and the censorship imposed by Muslims and non-Muslim fellow-travellers of Islam shut off, sealed off, attempted to bury, even the mention of those scholars together with their scholarship -- if he, or someone on his staff, or someone in the Foreign Office could learn about Islam, really all the way to the end, and then spread the word, spread the scholarship, spread the concern so that it might, just might, overcome the influence of National-Union-of-Student "anti-colonialists" who think Saudi and Kuwaiti plutocrats have been the victims of "colonialism," Laurentian romantics who forgot to read Aldington's myth-busting biography of Lawrence, and Kedourie's final demolition, the usual antisemites who naturally gravitate to Arab and Muslim desks in various chanceries (for what better way to indulge their pathological "hobby" than to smite Israel, primly presenting their animus as merely a case of acting "in the national interest" as opposed to all those supporters of Israel, who cannot possibly "be acting in the national interest").

Study Islam, Jack. Study its tenets, study the behavior of Muslims toward non-Muslims, in time and space. Don't simply repeat the cliches that were the product of Romantic literature (Chateaubriand, Sir Walter Scott, Washington Irving) about the perfidy of the Crusaders and nobililty of Saladin, or the Wonder That Was Andalucia. Leave that to the Amin Maaloufs and the Robert Irwins (and these are the best of the lot, not the worst).

Study Islam, Jack, before you open your mouth.

And then ask yourself this question: what do you know about the history of Islam and science? Whast do you know about the supposed great contributions of "Arab mathematics" (by the way, once you remove the Persians and the Central Asians -- Al-Khwarizmi for example -- and other non-Arabs, how many "Arabs" actually contributed to "Arab mathematics"? How many of those working in the period of high Islamic civilization (such as it was) were not even Muslims, but Jews and Chrristians with Arab names?

And what were those contirbutions? How much of what you consider to be the achievements of to "Arab peoples" (are the Persians among those "Arab peoples" you mention? Not too many Iranians would be happy with you if that is what you think)."

Surely you can look at a few books on the history of science and technologoy -- Charles Singer comes to mind, and so does A. C. Crombie. I have the latter in an inexpensive Dover reprint, and could spare it, if you promise just to read the pages devoted to the contributions of Arabs and Muslims. In Crombie's text (the Dover edition abridges the original two-volumes) of some 365 pages, there are a total of about 20 pages devoted to "Reception of Greco-Arabic Science in Western Civilization." Crombie makes clear that same for a few people in optics, and Rhazes (ar-Razi) who was hardly an orthodox Muslim, there is almost no there there -- except for translations that helped to transmit Greek science -- translations made not by Arab Muslims, but by Christians and Jews.

The sentence which comes closest to supporting Jack Straw is the following:

"In the field of mathematics the Arabs transmitted to Western Christendom a body of most valuable knowledge which had never been available to th eGreeks, though here the Arabs were not making an oriingla contribution but sjijmjply making more widely known the developments in mathematical thought which had taken place aomong the HIndus. Unlike the Greeks, the HIndus had dveloped not so much geometry as arithmetic and algebra."

The "Arabs" who transmitted the Greek texts were almost entirely Jews and Christians who knew Arabic, and Greek, and Syriac. The "Arabs" who gave the world muchj of algebra were not the "Arabs" at all -- but the HIndus.

Now I have never heard Jack Straw say a word about the Hindu contribution to the development of mathematics. He might have said, at the U.N., that "more than a thousand years ago some people, working in the lands ruled by Islam, and knowing Arabic, managed to act as agents of transfer and transmission, of both Greek contributions to philosophy and mathematics, and Hindu contributions, and for that work of transmission that was permitted to take place, and in some cases even sponsored by local Muslim rulers, we owe a debt of thanks."

That's it. That would be more than fair.

But that's not what Jack Straw did. He lied about the history of science and the history of Western civilization. He doesn't care; it doesn't matter.

It is all part of the current campaign to pretend that there is no problem with Islam, and to placate Muslims at every turn. In their demands for this, in their view of that, and even in their own dream-world of that Gloriuos Past which turns out to be lot less due to Muslims, a lot less due to Arab Muslims even within Islam, than Jack Straw apparently has any idea.

And now comes the final question.

Since when did Self-Esteem Studies become a substitute for the truth, even outside universities, now involving the fates of entire peoples and civilizations? Since when did we decide that what may have been transmitted from the Hindus or the Chinese (papermaking) or the Greeks (a few, but not all, of Aristotle's texts -- texts which the Arabs and Muslims did almost nothing with to develop, but simply translated and passively accepted), more than a thousand years ago, somehow is supposed to justify Arab and Muslim malevolence and murder today?

Of course we know what Jack Straw is doing. He is doing everything he can not to even begin to face up to Islam. He does not want to study History. For Henry Ford history was bunk. For Jack Straw, history just must, simply must, please god make it -- bunk.

And why why why must history please-pretty-please-let's-pretend-just-now-at-the-U.N.-and-the-E.U.-and-everywhere, please, that history is bunk because otherwise it will be just too difficult a problem for us to deal with. So better pretend the problem doesn't exist. Better to pretend that the tenets of Islam are not what they are. Better to pretend that things can be managed because, you see, "secularism" -- as in "secular" Turkey, as in "secular" Turkey which really must be admitted to the U.N. -- will take care of the problem. Like some of his counterparts in Washington, Jack Straw appears not to have noticed the extreme shakiness of the Kemalist attempt to constrain Islam, the new tone of nastineess about Infidels (especially Americans and Israelis), the new appearance of Islam that never really went away (it was not away in 1955, when the attacks on Greeks took place all over Istanbul), but was misinterepreted by Western powers, eager during the Cold War, for obvious reasons of state, to regard Turkey as permantently, rather than temporarily, transformed. And in this misperception they were helped along by the Turkish generals who, Kemalists all, were not inclined to let their Western counterparts learn too much about the bedrock strength of Islam, or what that meant in the end for the very Infidels who were kindly transferring all that military equipment and knowhow to their true-blue Turkish allies.

Here is what Jack Straw said a week or so ago when he urged the E.U. to admit Turkey:

"By welcoming Turkey we will demonstrate that Western and Islamic cultures can thrive together as partners in the modern world - the alternative is too terrible to contemplate."

"The alternative is too terrible to contemplate." Sentiments that ring a Chamberlainian note. The note of the limited, the unimaginative, the unschooled, the person who cannot allow himself to learn, because he is afraid of what he will find out. So now it is not only the Arabs who will live in a Dream Palace (in Fouad Ajami's phrase), conssting of their own mythologoy about their Fabled Past Greatness, but we Infidels, if the Jack Straws prevail, will be forced to live in a world of Dreams and Falsities, and die a slow death, as Europe islamizes.

What a ridiculous idea. What a dangerous idea. What a disgusting idea. An idea that even careless Jack Straw, silly Jack Straw, Jack "N.U.S." Straw, Jack "a possiblity-too-terrible-to-contemplate" Straw, should be capable of seeing right through, and rejecting.

But apparently not.

@Hugh in the previous site and also link in my signature there is a very good text in english in the same sense as your contribution.

But grovel all he likes the bruvverz of MPACUK (Moslem Public Affairs Committee United Kingdom) still will not reckon him.

http://www.mpacuk.org/content/view/897/

Islamists have long tried to claim that they are the fathers of mathematics, propping up their claims of Islamic superiority and ignoring the facts that Aristotle, Archimedes, Pythagoras, Euclid and a few other old Greeks are the true fathers of modern mathematics. When Muslim armies invaded North Africa, Egypt and the Holy Lands, they found civilizations that had already been Hellenized by Alexandeder the Great. Muslims learned from them, incorporated some figures borrowed from Hindus through Islamic trade routes and then claimed they invented it. In reality Islam has contributed nothing to modern society since they were unable to build on the foundations of the Greeks. It's a pity Mr. Straw believes this rubbish, and even more that he regurgitates it publicly, but maybe like the scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz, he has straw for brains.

londongirl

There's your Dhimmi!

On the Arab/Islamic contribution to math, one could also look at Kline's Mathematical Thought from Ancient to Modern Times. This huge tome of 1230 odd pages, has 160 pages devoted to the Ancient Greeks, 1000 pages to Europe from medieval times on and 7 pages for each of the Hindus and the Arabs.

Kline says, page 191: "One speaks of Arabic mathematics, but it was Arabic in language primarily. Most of the scholars were Greeks, Christians, Persians and Jews .... Fundamentally, what the Arabs possessed was Greek knowledge .... The Arabs then improved the translations and made commentaries. It is these ... that became available to Europe later ..." where something was made of them.

Kline also notes that the Arabs "took over and improved the Hindu number symbols and the idea of positional notation.

Kline could have said more about the Hindus; and it is clear how little the Arabs contributed.

M. Kline, writes in « Mathematical Thought from Ancient to Modern Times » (Oxford University Press 1972, pp 196-7) : « Mathematics was studied by the Arabs mainly to further the few sciences they pursued, not for is own sake. Nor did they study science for its own sake. They were not interested in the Greek goal of understanding the mathematical design of nature or in comprehending God’s ways, as were the medieval Europeans. The Arab objective, new in the history of science, was power over nature. They thought they would achieve that power through alchemy, magic and astrology, which were an integral part of their scientific effort… The Arabs made no significant advance in mathematics. What they did was absorb Greek and Hindu mathematics, preserve it, and, ultimately … transmit it to Europe”

The best conclusion however comes from the course of the UK Open University, « Topics in the History of Mathematics » Block 2, Unit 5, p 15 : « You may feel in the light of the studies of this section that less than justice has been done here to the achievements of Islamic mathematicians. However, it may be fair to suggest that Islamic mathematics developed less, relatively, compared with Greek mathematics or with subsequent developments in Europe. The surrounding Islamic culture was often not generally favourable to mathematical and scientific advances – as witness the religious opposition to a reform of the calendar. The work of mathematicians was very largely dependant on the individual patronage of rulers and nobles. There was perhaps less opportunity for experimental thinking than in Greek times or in the West following the Reformation. While, therefore, it is clearly wrong to say ‘the Arabs made no significant advance in mathematics’, it is not entirely unreasonable to suggest that, had they lived in a different political and religious milieu, their contribution might well have been even greater than they were.”

The above sentence is very politically correct expression for saying they did almost nothing....

And does anyone know of any formula, lemma or theorem that has the namle of an arab-moslim mathematician? I don't either!

I thought you all might like to read the email I sent to Jack Straw this afternoon...

Dear Mr. Straw,

It has been reported in the press that you have said there is no fundamental difference between the Islamic world and the West. How can you reconcile such a statement with the following quotations from Muslims? By the way, these are merely a few examples; many more could be cited...

What Muslims Have Said:

Acquiring nuclear weapons for the defense of Moslems is a religious duty. If I have indeed acquired these weapons, then I thank Allah for enabling me to do so.
-Osama bin Laden, in an 1998 interview with Time magazine

We have the right to kill 4 million Americans, two million of them children.
-Abu Gheith, Al-Qaeda spokesman

If a bomb was dropped on them that would annihilate 10 million and burn their landsSthis is permissible.
-Sheikh Nasir bin Hamid al-Fahd, prominent Saudi cleric close to Al-Qaeda

The real matter is the extinction of America. And, Allah willing, it will fall to the groundSkeep in mind this prediction.
-Mullah Omar, Taliban leader and ally of Osama bin Laden

Those who oppose the mullahs oppose Islam itself; eliminate the mullahs and Islam shall disappear in fifty years. It is only the mullahs who can bring the people into the streets and make them die for Islam--begging to have
their blood shed for Islam.
-Ayatollah Khomeini

Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on Earth.
-Omar Ahmad, Co-founder of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR)

I wouldn't want to create the impression that I wouldn't like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future...But I'm not going to do anything violent to promote that. I'm going to do it through
education.
-Ibrahim Hooper, CAIR Spokesperson

We must reject democracy in favor of Islam, which is the unique perfect system worked out by Allah. . .Our march has just begun and Islam will end up conquering Europe and America. . . And let no one think that we are
Utopian dreamers.
-Sheikh Saeed Shaaban, quoted in L'Orient le jour, Beirut, 19 October 1983

The Koran pushes us in the exact opposite direction to the forces at work in the American political spectrum.
-Imam Zaid Shakir, former Muslim chaplain and political science professor, Yale University

Islam is not Christianity...Islam is the religion of agitation, revolution, blood, liberation and martyrdom.
-Sheikh Morteza Motahari, quoted in "Islamic Movements in the Last One Hundred Years," Tehran, 1979

You shall begin to live once you have killed yourself. The "you" in you is none other than Satan in disguise. Kill him and you will be saved. Muslims are lucky because they can accomplish this self annihilation in accordance with divine rules. For Islam has an answer to every imagnable question. All
an individual needs to do is to obey the rules without posing questions, without seeking variations.
-Sheikh Ragheb Harb, "Islam is the Strongest Religion," 1983, p.22

A believer...who takes up a gun, a dagger, a kitchen knife or even a pebble with which to harm and kill the enemies of the Faith has his place assured in Heaven. An Islamic state is the sum total of such individual believers.
An Islamic state is a state of war until the whole world sees and accepts the light of the True Faith.
-Ayatollah Fazl-Allah Mahalati, "On the Path of Justice," Tehran, 1980, pp.
70-71

If we...allow our rulers to be chosen by the ordinary people from among ordinary politicans, we will not have to wait long before we see the end of Islam.
-Ayatollah Komeini

People say, "Don't lie!" But the principle is different when we serve the will of Allah. He taught Man to lie so that we can save ourselves at moments of difficulty and confuse our enemies... People say, "Don't kill!" But the
Almighty Himself taught us how to kill...So shall we not kill when it is necessary for the triumph of the Faith? ... Deceit, trickery, conspiracy, cheating, stealing and killing are nothing but means.
-Muhammad Navab-Safavi, key figure in the fundamentalist movement, "Islamic Society and Government," Tehran, 1946; second edition, 1985.

One must beware of the Jews, for they are treacherous and disloyal.
-Islamic Education for Ninth Grade p. 79

I learn from this lesson: I believe that the Jews are the enemies of the Prophets and the believers.
-Islamic Education, Part Two, for Fourth Grade p. 67

Remember: The final and inevitable result will be the victory of the Muslims
over the Jews.
-Our Arabic Language for Fifth Grade p. 67
(The quotes above are from Palestinian school texts published under the
symbol of their Ministry of Education, but authored in Jordon.

All the books cited here were written during the most optimistic periods of the peace process, before the violence of September 2000 had begun.)

"Shake the earth, raise the stones.
You will not be saved, Oh Zionist, from the volcano of my country's stones,
You will not be saved, Oh Zionist, from the volcano of my country's stones,
You are the target of my eyes, I will even willingly fall as a shahid
(martyr for Allah).
You are the target of my eyes, I will even willingly fall as a shahid.
Allah akbar, Oh the young ones."
-The words above are from a music video which had not been broadcast on
Palestinian TV after being shown in a U.S. Senate hearing in 2003. However,
by October 2004, it had reappeared, and was played at least ten times
between October 4 and October 17 of that year. The words are sung by a woman
wearing an army uniform, with scenes of children dancing alternating with
scenes of children participating in violent acts in combat zones.

Any land, any piece of land, over which flies the banner of 'There is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is His Messenger,' and which at a certain point belonged to the Muslims – as far as we are concerned, plundering and occupying such land is forbidden, and it is the duty of all Muslims to do what they can to liberate this land, wherever it may be. True, many precious Muslim lands are under occupation today. They have been forgotten, and Andalusia is one example. Nevertheless, it is the duty of the Muslims to
liberate them....
-Sheikh Muhammad Ali, Palestinian Clerics Association Deputy Director, on
August 19, 2005.

The 21st century will be the century of Islam. -Ayatollah Janati, cleric in Iranian government, quoted many times.

Source: http://www.TheTruthProject.blogspot.com/

I feel that politicians like yourself need to get a firm grip on what is happening in the world apropos of Islam. Western politicians keep stating that Islam is a religion of love, whereas all evidence points to the contrary. It is also interesting to note that such positive statements about Islam are uttered by politically correct WESTERN politicians. We rarely, if ever, hear such utterances from Muslims themselves. They know that this is
not the case.

The very essence of Islam is to conquer, for Islam itself divides the world into Dar al Harb, or the House of War, and Dar al Islam, or House of Islam. The House of War is that region of the world that has yet to be conquered. Britain, of course, belongs to the House of War. There is to be no peace in the House of War, by definition! This is one reason why it will be disastrous to allow Turkey to accede to the EU. History will not
look kindly upon the politicians who bring this about, for it will mark the beginning of the end of Christian Europe and usher in the beginning of the Islamised form of Europe: Eurabia!

The history of Islam is one of conquest by the sword and blood-letting. What is happening today is no different from what has happened for over 1400 years since Islam's inception. What we are experiencing in the form of terrorism today is actually the jihad in action. They call jihad! And it must never be forgotten that the jihad is a religious duty in Islam. It has been going on for over fourteen hundred years already; though jihadi activity has been more intense in some periods of history than others. It is now going through an intense period because of the power afforded to the Muslim world by dint of newly-acquired oil wealth. We need to be mindful of this, for we are all aware of how much power and influence money buys. It also enables the jihadis to bankroll THEIR war against us!

It is my opinion, and my opinion is based on more than twenty years of studying Islam, that we are now living through a period of appeasement similar to the appeasement of the 1930's. We all know how that period ended! We can only hope that history will not repeat itself; though it usually does!

The dangers we face with Islam have to be admitted to. The politics of fear just will not work. Moreover, it will help nobody if we bury our heads in the sand!

People in the know about Islam know that there are great fundamental differences between the Islamic world and the West. And no number of positive statements are going to cover them up!

Respectfully,

Mark

Nadine in a posting above offers a link to an informative French site where the matter of "Islamic" contributions to mathematics and science are discussed. Well-known authorities, such as the former MIT professor of the history of science Dirk Struik, are quoted, and the material is quite useful.

Just as interesting are some of the comments that follow. The first is by someone born in Morocco, and therefore born into Islam, who makes clear his own disgust with the Received Version of Islamic Greatness that he was brainwashed into believing during his Moroccan years:

"Il se trouve que je suis mathématicien, et né au Maroc. Ca semble anecdotique, mais cela a son importance.

En effet je me suis rendu compte des années plus tard que l'on nous racontait des betises : Nous aurions trouvé le zéro, inventé la boussole, ...

Aujourd'hui même, certains prédicateurs démontrent que la vitesse de la lumière était prédite dans le Coran.

Que de bêtises."

An example of what one must not forget: many are born into Islam through no fault of their own. Some have Islam thrust upon them. And others become Muslims. The last group, the crazy converts, the psychically marginal, are the least attractive, and nowadays, anyone in the Western world who converts to Islam should be regarded with great suspicion. But as to those who form the first and second groups, there are those -- Ibn Warraq has compliled a whole book of testimonies by those who have left Islam -- see right through the problem, have jettisoned Islam, and are often the most acutely critical of what Islam does, teaches, fosters, is.

The mathematician (ne au Maroc, but living now in France) writing above appears to be one of them.

Nadineken asks if anyone knows of any formula, lemma or theorem that has the namle of an arab-moslim mathematician. The Atiyah-Singer Index Theorem comes to mind, though Michael Atiyah is only half Arab (Lebanese father) and was formed entirely within the British mathematical tradition.

I do not believe there are even now any first-rate mathematicians formed and working within the Muslim world, and I also cannot think of any medieval one. Perhaps typical is that just the words "algorithm" and "algebra" have arabic etymologies.

Atiyah is definitely a very great mathematician though his expressed political views are typically nasty; one can google for them. I am amused by the though that his name is forever linked with the very Jewish Isidore Singer.

Mr. Jack Staw since you are turning into a USEFUL IDIOT, this is to inform you that that you would be better put to helping claim the heritage of Nalanda University:

In the 10th century when Hieun Tsang entered the university, there were 10,000 resident students. They came from all parts of India and foreign lands. It was India?s leading University. It?s chancellorship was reserved for India?s foremost Buddhist scholar when Hieun-Tsang visited Nalanda Silabhadra Maha Thera held the post. At that time there were 10,000 students, 1510 teachers, and about 1,500 workers at Nalanda. Students from foreign lands such as Tibet, China, Japan, Korea, Sumatra, Java and Sri Lanka were found there. Admission to Nalanda was by oral examination. This was done by a professor at the entrance hall. He was called Dvara Pandita. Proficiency in Sanskrit was necessary, as it was the medium of instruction. All Chinese monks going to India for higher studies in Buddhism had to go to Java and brush up their Sanskrit. Hieum Tsang reports that of the foreign students only 20% managed to pass the stiff examinations. Of the Indian students only 30% managed to pass and gain admission.
http://www.saigon.com/~anson/ebud/ebdha240.htm

Before it was destroyed by the blind fury of the Muslim invaders, the Nalanda University housed nine million manuscripts. It was the center of education for scholars from all over Asia and Europe. Many Greek, Persian and Chinese students studied here.

Its vivid descriptions in the chronicles of Huien Tsang, the Chinese Buddhist scholar who visited Nalanda twelve hundred years ago... bring the crumbling stones back to life again. It was this university that was the cradle of ancient Hindu mathematics, astronomy, linguistics, philosophy and theology.

http://hindutva.org/babrimasjid.html

Mr. Jack Straw may not listen to me, but he is a tick among the many personages in history.

This is what a greater man than him thinks:

In 1924, Mohammed Ali to whom Gandhi showed such affection said, : "However pure Mr. Gandhi's character may be, he must appear to me, from the point of religion, inferior to any Mussalman even though he be without character." In 1925 he emphasized: "Yes, according to my religion and creed, I do hold an adulterous and a fallen Mussalman to be better than Mr. Gandhi". That is the true Islamofascist mentality revealed in all its glory.

In this way Gandhi's experiment with Islam failed. This should serve as an object lesson to all who try to appease the fanatic Muslims. It will not succeed but only lead to greater fanaticism and destruction.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/HinduWoman40718.htm

Snivelling Jack Straw, your muslim advisors gloat.

Jack Straw may market evil, but he is a poor salesman.

The Marketing of Evil: How Radicals, Elitists, and Pseudo-Experts Sell Us Corruption Disguised as Freedom

"David Kupelian dares to tell the truth." - Dr. Laura Schlessinger

"Now watch the cockroaches run for cover." - Michelle Malkin

"In years to come Americans will acknowledge a debt of gratitude to David Kupelian for his honesty, courage, and laser-like insight in this must-read book." - Rabbi Daniel Lapin
http://shop.wnd.com/store/item.asp?ITEM_ID=1679

Ships? I see no ships.......

If only we had any journalists in the UK who knew history & had access to this cretin Straw, he could be shown to be the absolute idiot he so clearly is to those of us with an education.

In 5 years this man has not answered a single letter of the 34 I have written to him - not even an acknowledgement of receipt.

I think his Office must be waiting until they force through the Incitement To Religious Hatred legislation - then I expect several Policeman to deliver The Foreign Secretary's response in person.

I forgot to say that of course, the Policemen will be wearing the Green Hamas Ribbons of Solidarity.