I was an expert witness in this case on its first go-round, so I am following the outcome of the appeal with great interest. Someday I hope to be able to write about this case and its implications. From WND, with thanks to JC:
A case brought by parents and children challenging a California school district for its practice of teaching 12-year-old students to "become Muslims" will be heard in U.S. appeals court today.As WND reported, the lawsuit was filed by the Thomas More Law Center against the Byron Union School District and various school officials to stop the "Islam simulation" materials and methods used in the Excelsior Elementary School in Byron, Calif.
The United States Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit in San Francisco, widely considered the nation's most liberal, will hear oral arguments in the case.
The Thomas More Law Center says that for three weeks, "impressionable 12-year-old students" were, among other things, placed into Islamic city groups; took Islamic names; wore identification tags that displayed their new Islamic name and the star and crescent moon; handed materials that instructed them to 'Remember Allah always so that you may prosper'; completed the Islamic Five Pillars of Faith, including fasting; and memorized and recited the 'Bismillah' or 'In the name of God, the Merciful, the Compassionate,' which students also wrote on banners hung on the classroom walls.
I would love to read Robert's analysis of this case, but it won't be soon.
Regardless of the 9th Circuit decision (and I'm not very hopeful when it comes to that particular forum), this case is headed to the Supreme Court. It will not be heard there until next term at the earliest.
I hope they showed them how to wash Satan out of their nose each morning. Did they also tell them not to watch Porky Pig? How about stoning a few harlots or behanding a thief or how to rape women of other religions or .. or .. or ..
Too many ors to count.
I am strongly opposed to ANY religious dogma being peddled in public schools. Of course, this sort of public school proselytizing is not limited to Islam, though.
http://www.petitiononline.com/000777/petition.html
http://www.natcenscied.org/
Some states in he US have voted to SUPPORT the teaching of Intelligent Design in public schools.
The trial judge in this case was Phyllis J. Hamilton, an African-American appointed by Bill Clinton. She had been a Deputy Public Defender, then an EEO program manager. She was confirmed and took office in May, 2000.
Thank you, Bill. Did you check to see if she was a muslim?
The greatest danger is that someone has only to say twice the lines 'There is no G** but A**** and Mohammed is his m********' and that means that he or she has officially converted to Islam, and they would be risking they lives if they abandonned Islam or probably even if they said that they were only joking or role playing. I fear that loads of children and teens could be tricked into becoming Muslims this way.
Did they tell the 12 year old boys they could pick up and have sex with the 9 year old girls (temporary marriage - wouldn't want a western style one night stand now)?
These are no longer public schools; the proper term is government schools and they are indeed teaching a religion in most of them across the nation: Secular Humanism. Public schools would be locally controlled by parents and citizens; would be locally funded; and the primary educators would be acknowledged to be parents not educrats.
*gasp* I found myself actually agreeing with KingOfTalkingCrap(a hypocrite)!!!
My son has this piece of crap book.
I will be discussing this with various school officials.
History is supposed to be about truth, warts and all.
The parts about Islam are pure PC. Makes me wonder just how accurate the rest of this so called "history" text is.
If anyone has suggestions on what to include in the initial contact letter, I'm all ears.
As long as King Tolerance's intolerance of Christianity is part of a package that includes intolerance of Islam, I agree with him; but I don't agree with him if he's going to have a double standard about this issue.
If some schools are going to teach Intelligent Design, then:
Either Make certain it is taught strictly as Another Theory
or
Make it part of a course along the lines of Comparative Religions.
As for religion being forced upon people: some people think allowing a group of people to pray in front of the flagpole at school, is too much. That is like taking offense to a Catholic priest walking in front of the local courthouse, because he is wearing the accoutrements of his faith (meaning: the black outfit and collar).
And then there are those who are for allowing prayer- so long as it isn't Christian:
http://www.kqed.org/topics/news/perspectives/youdecide/pop/schoolpray/2yes.html
http://editorials.arrivenet.com/religion/article.php/6034.html
Paste:with additions (changes) in the body.
King Churchill oops,WARD Churchill and the rest of our public school leftist-academia are funded by our tax dollars. Why do we continue to allow our taxpayer funds to assist them in our own destruction? If we do not fight back and let these publicly-funded universities,colleges and now k-thru-9 know that we will no longer tolerate these outrageous individuals spewing their false, seditious and even treasonous venom to our kids, we become as guilty as are they.
treehugger -
thetearsofthings discusses this very topic. It appears that this blogger took up the cause against the Scottsdale school district after reading a letter on Daniel Pipes' website.
Perhaps contacting him through his website may get you the information you are seeking.
Treehugger: I would only suggest that you avoid "cc-ing" (that is, sending copies to) any persons other than your actual addressee. Send individual letters if you are contacting more than one person. In fact, it is better to taylor-make the letters so that every person receives a unique letter. The use of the "cc" marks the sender as an amateur.
If you really want to make the point, send your letter by Certified Mail with Return Receipt Requested; Registered Mail; Priority Mail With Delivery Confirmation; or some comparable method in the UK, OZ, etc.
A letter delivered by a postman is about one hundred times more effective than an email. A certified or registered letter (which must be signed for, and then becomes a legal notice) is about a thousand times more effective than an email.
OK, one suggestion on content: Don't threaten to do ANYTHING (e.g., withhold a vote, bring suit, support the opposition, stage a demonstration, etc.) You can, however, state that the issue is very important to you and your family and that all of you will be paying very close attention, etc.
Hope this helps, and good luck.
I've read more about this case. As part of their training in...uh learning about...Islam, the chidren practice running toy airplanes into tall papier mache buildings, yelling, "Bonzai Allah!!"
The liberal 9th Circuit generally comes down hard on the presence of religion in public schools. But, since this involves Islam--an exception will probably be made.
The liberal 9th Circuit generally comes down hard on the presence of religion in public schools. But, since this involves Islam--an exception will probably be made.
Posted by: helox at October 19, 2005 01:35 PM
OF course it will, in the holy name of diversity and multiculturalism, the religion of the far left.
Gary I don't think that you really read, much less ponder or ask questions, about the articles to whom you link, the first one above does not support your contention. In fact it starts off with a Jewish Principal name of Levy, who was going to set aside a prayer room for Muslim students during Ramadan (imagine that a Jewish principle respecting Muslim religion... another gold star for the Jews, as compared to Muslims who would not countenance such a thing), and who was it that estopped the behavior, none other than Willam Donahue, one of the most obnoxious, self righteous Ibrahaim Cooper look alikes the Catholic church has produced. He does remind me, uncomfortably, of an Iranian mullah.
But that link is a four page discussion, intended to flesh out both sides of the prayers in school issue.
(I voted No consistently), religion has no place at all in publicly funded (my taxes) enterprises, be they a courthouse or a school. If Christians can pray in School, then so can Muslims, put the ten commandments in a courthouse and the Muslims can then successfully demand display of the Koran.
Your second link is hyperbole, I did a google search on Kams Elementary School, what I found is
sites with the same identical story, same wording in fact, written by one man J. Grant Swank Jr. and I couldn't even find a school named Kams Elementary School.
This sounds like fake news to me, an invention of a rabid ideologue name of J. Grant Swank Jr.
If there is truth to it, then shame, for sure the ACLU if alerted will intervene, because what a kid does on his own time, during recess or lunch is strictly his business.
I don't trust the story, because it is outrageous and defies common sense.
I'm waiting for my jaw to stop dropping before I post a response to this article. So far, it's in another county, and no sign of stopping. If anyone sees my jaw as it continues to drop, would you kindly alert me?
Tx...
Elephant,
my prof. on the Islam course at my uni, said that he has played this trick several times on his students. He would get them to say "some authentic Arabic" to whet their tongues, and then say "haha, you're Muslim now". He was quite proud of this.
Treehugger,
you can say that the textbooks don't include the archaeological info from the past 30-40yrs that leave little room for doubt that Muhammad and his merry band did not exist. I'm taking a general world history class now, and the textbook (which 1000s of kids in unis in Canada, USA, UK use) doesn't include this, but says "islam treats women nice", "people were fed up with Christianity", etc.
I love this idea of simulations. I suggest they simulate stoning an adultress, simulate female genital mutilation, simulate an honor killing of a wayward sister, simulate forced marriage of the 12 year old to her 60 year old cousin, simulate mob killing of any who insult old Mo.....
I'm just getting started - simulate destroying churches, simulate shredding bibles,simulate husbands beating disobedient wives - oops, they forgot to simulate separate of male and female students...
Let's call it, "Islam, The Hands on (your throat with a knife) Cirriculum"
I do wonder how many non-Muslim teachers have raised objections about this. Surely they can't all believe it's a good thing.
But, until such role playing is prohibited, Islam's dark side should be addressed, too.
So, in addition to what's already been posted here, I add the following additions to the game:
Whenever issues or rules need to be voted upon, girls will not be allowed to vote.
Girls must pretend to enter the 'Mosque' through a back door, and to remain segretated from the boys.
Post pubescent girls must pretend they are living in strict, backwards countries, and immediately leave the classroom.
During fire drills, girls not appropriately dressed to go outside should pretend to stay in the burning building, to die rather than to offend male sensibilities.
Girls must do as their younger brothers tell them to.
Girls must pretend that, through circumstances beyond their control, illiterate morons have seen them with a man not their uncle, son, husband, father, butler, etc., or an enunch, and they will be killed to restore family honor.
The list does go on.
Nariz: "In fact it starts off with a Jewish Principal name of Levy, who was going to set aside a prayer room for Muslim students during Ramadan (imagine that a Jewish principle respecting Muslim religion... another gold star for the Jews, as compared to Muslims who would not countenance such a thing), and who was it that estopped the behavior, none other than Willam Donahue, one of the most obnoxious, self righteous Ibrahaim Cooper look alikes the Catholic church has produced. He does remind me, uncomfortably, of an Iranian mullah.""
Not for nothing, but when does seeking equality before the law become "obnoxious" or "self righteous?" While I do not agree with the current interpretation of the Establishment clause of the Bill of Rights, it has been interpretted to mean that the state shall not favor one religion over another, full stop, end of discussion. If it is to be that all are equal in the eyes of the law, then that must mean the state may not favor ANY religion, full stop. You cannot apply this against Christianity and not against the other religions. Either all are subject to interpretation or none should be. If a creche in the town square in impermissable, then so must the Eid banners and the menorah. That Mr. Donahue played the role traditionally held by the ACLU should be of no import. If it meet that the ACLU may run the Nativity scene from the town square, how can it not be just for Mr. Donohue to do the same re: the Ramadan prayer room?
Dr. Pepper: "As long as King Tolerance's intolerance of Christianity is part of a package that includes intolerance of Islam, I agree with him; but I don't agree with him if he's going to have a double standard about this issue."
King: You talked yourself in a circle. What about my post is a double standard?? Once again, I am only reminding you of clear-cut, unarguable instances where another religion is infiltrating the public school domain. In the US, the #1 violators the separation of church and state of Christians and the problem is growing.
I do not like any sort of proselytizing in the public domain, be it Islamic, Christian, or whatever. If anyone is clinging to a double standard, it is you. Time and again, I post instances (as here) where Christianity has been caught in the same sort of radical nonesense as some Muslims are today, and you apologize or dismiss it, calling me a Christian basher.
King: "In the US, the #1 violators the separation of church and state of Christians and the problem is growing.
I do not like any sort of proselytizing in the public domain, be it Islamic, Christian, or whatever. If anyone is clinging to a double standard, it is you. Time and again, I post instances (as here) where Christianity has been caught in the same sort of radical nonesense as some Muslims are today, and you apologize or dismiss it, calling me a Christian basher."
Your examples are usually somewhat dated, if I may be allowed an understatement. While I cheerfully concede that the Inquisition was an overwhelming BAD thing, its usefulness and applicability to the twenty-first century is limited. As noted elsewhere, you ignore the precipitating events, such as the Islamic invasion and conquest of Spain, which, in its turn, led to the Spanish inquisition. Thusly, while Christian were violent and brutish, so were their Islamic counterpart of that era. Nowadays, Christians are generally peaceful, living constitutional states, as opposed to the tin-pot dictatorships of the Islamic world, where life is *still* ugly, brutish and short.
Likewise, what applicability is there in an example from a time when people were ignorant, believing in vampires, werewolves and a host of other superstitions, as opposed to this modern, scientific era? Islam does not commit oppressive acts because they fear djinni and ghuls. The Islamic world was once the center of art and science in the world. Their religion, however, led to a societal calcification, stifling their scientific advancement and cultural development. We have advanced beyond them, despite their headstart.
Additionally, most instances of "creeping Christianity" are vigorously opposed by the ACLU, who are remarkably quiet when the creeping religion is something other than Christianity.
Well stated, Cthulhu -- in addition I would add that this site is NOT called "Dredging up ancient Christian history in order to justify the concocted pretexts of Islamic militants today..." Nor is it called "Site for silly arguments to deflect the discussion away from the predations of Islamic fascists at every turn and vainly attempt to blame them on Christians and generally confuse the matter..." Nor is it called " "Obscurantist site for furthering sophistic solopsisms for non-debate and off topic postings which attempt to establish moral equivalencies where none exist between Christianity and Islam..."
Though a certain scrofulous poster above unsuccessfully attempts to turn it into such...