Here is the fourth in European writer Wolfgang Bruno's new series of essays.
Everybody experiences ups and downs. The mood swings of people suffering from manic depression are far more extreme than those experienced by average people. Europe is probably the only case where an entire continent suffers from this condition. At the beginning of the 20th century, Europe was the most influential civilization in human history. It had the most dynamic economies on the planet, and had self-confidence sometimes reaching levels of extreme arrogance. At the beginning of the 21st century, Europe is in serious economic decline, its populations are being replaced in its own major cities, it is the most pessimistic region in the world, and its media, universities and intellectuals keep reminding their countrymen that their culture is worthless and evil. In part, this reads like the story of the rise and fall of any civilization, but there is something special about Europe, something almost pathological. Europe is a continent of extremes, sometimes changing in rapid succession. Unless this pattern changes, the pendulum could soon swing back towards aggressive Fascism, partly triggered by Muslim immigration.Anthony Browne asks why Britain became "the first country in the developed world to produce its own suicide bombers." The answer is that Britain hates itself. Schools refuse to teach history that risks making pupils proud, and use history instead as a means of instilling liberal guilt. London's internationalism is the only thing Brits are allowed to be proud of -- in other words, something that is hardly British at all.
We need to find a middle way and regain some of our cultural confidence. Being arrogant is definitely a character flaw, but self-loathing doesn't make you good, it just makes you seem weak and pathetic. A certain amount of self-confidence is a necessary precondition to achieve anything in life. That goes for nations as well as individuals. If you don't respect yourself, then nobody else is going to respect you either. Those who do not have some pride in their own culture will sooner or later end up being proud of somebody else's. Yes, Europe has a sometimes dark and violent history, but that is hardly unique to us. Yes, Europe was engaged in slavery, as have been most other cultures throughout human history. However, Europe also gave rise to the abolitionist movement, pushing to end slavery on an international basis, not the least in the Islamic world. Move on! Our culture is worth keeping, despite the incessant claims to the contrary from parts of our intelligentsia. Non-Europeans who visit our lands come to visit our great cathedrals, see our arts and enjoy some of the quaint little quirks and bad habits we have acquired over the centuries. If they want to see burkas and sharia they go to Baghdad or Karachi, not to Rome, Amsterdam or Dublin. Should Europe be reduced to an appendix of the Arab world, this would be a tragedy for world cultural heritage, not just for Europe.
If we could use a little more confidence in the cultural field, we need a bit more humility in the economic field. Europe had dynamic economies once, but we didn't have six hour work days and five weeks holidays when we did. We've grown lazy and complacent, and get our collective behinds kicked every day by Chinese, Americans, Indians and pretty much everybody else. The welfare state is dead, long live the welfare state! Our demographic challenges, on the other hand, cannot be solved by immigration alone, but by a change of our cultural and religious values. The problems created by declining birth rates are not nearly as big as the problems created by the cure, Muslim immigration.As Melanie Phillips says, the great mistake the EU makes is to confuse attachment to the nation with isolationism. The desire for self-government is not isolationist. It is simply the precondition for democracy. The elements of the transnational Utopia, such as the EU, European Court of Human Rights, the UN and the International Criminal Court, are therefore nothing less than an assault on democracy, freedom and the attachments that make us into functioning communities founded on a shared sense of identity and interests. And the only way to defend ourselves against this new threat is for nations to have a strong sense of and belief in themselves.
Yet it is that sense of national identification that the EU has been busily destroying, thus dangerously weakening the ability of European nations to fight in their own defence. The political class thinks that the problem with the people is that they do not know what's in their best interest. This sentiment is particularly widespread among liberal and left-wing activists and thinkers. In Brussels, a demagogue is anyone who is critical of the EU project. The word "populism" used to mean democracy: that is, the readiness of politicians to recognise the wishes of their constituents. To many Eurocrats, however, public opposition is merely an obstacle to be overcome -- a bump on the road to European integration. And the response of our elite is not to affirm national identity but to repudiate it. The loyalty that people need in their daily lives is constantly ridiculed or even demonised by the dominant media.
As Roger Scruton points out, Western civilization depends on an idea of citizenship that is not global at all, but rooted in territorial jurisdiction and national loyalty. People in the West live in a public space in which each person is surrounded and protected by his rights, and where all behavior that poses no obvious physical threat is permitted. But people in Muslim countries live in a space that is shared but private, where nobody is shielded by his rights from communal judgment, and where communal judgment is experienced as the judgment of God. Europe seems so scared of its own real or perceived demons that it doesn't understand that demons can come from the outside too. From the Islamic world, for instance.
There is no particular reason why nationalism should be dangerous. It might be or it might not be. Communism was transnational and was responsible for the deaths of tens of millions of people. It is true that aggressive nationalism has been a problem for Europe in the past, but that does not mean that any allegiance to the nation state has to be evil in itself. What threatens to plunge the continent into war now is not nationalism but rather anti-nationalism, the deliberate weakening of the nation state. The sense of belonging to a shared community, a nation, is undermined both at the micro-level, through massive immigration, and at the macro-level, through faceless bureaucrats in Brussels.
Many of Europe's problems predate the EU and are not caused by it, but the EU has reinforced some of them and added a few more. We may need some kind of European solidarity and cultural alliance faced with the ongoing Islamic aggression, but it has to be based on the cooperation between independent nations that are defensible both in terms of their identity and from a practical point of view. Perhaps the question of Turkey's membership in the EU can be resolved by getting rid of the EU altogether. If so, Eurabia would be buried together with the institution that created it in the first place.
Wolfgang Bruno is a European author. He is writing a book about the Internet movement of ex-Muslims. All of Bruno's essays can be republished and reproduced for free by anybody who wants to, as long as credit is given to the author.
"At the beginning of the 20th century, Europe was the most influential civilization in human history."
King: Another piece of demagoguery! Both WWI and WWII started in Europe - there's been a bloody stain on Europe's history since the Dark Ages, and yet, we are expected to gloss over these little points because Wolfgang Bruno wants to have a sob party and blame the Muslims!
Let me remind you all of some of the "influences" Europe had on civilization at the beginning of the 20th century:
1. During the late 1800’s and early 1900’s, European nations competed to have colonies in Africa and Asia. Competition for colonies strained relations among European countries.
2. Nationalism encouraged public support for military build-ups
3. Brutal dictators rose to power in Germany, Italy, Russia, spreading their filth and laying the groundwork to yet another world war.
All of the above happened in the first 30 years of the 20th century....
Time and again, history has shown us just how the pendulum does swing, hasn't it? I find it revolting to see, before my eyes, another religion being blamed for "destabilization" and conflict being whined about herein. It was the Jews in the 1920's and 1930's. You took a break and blamed the communists in the 1950's through the 1980's, now we're back to blaming the Muslims.
1) True, but relations were strained anyway
2) True, but they learnt the folly of that in the killing fields of France
3) True
And what happened afterwards, we learnt from our mistakes, and have become a higher level of civilisation. The Jewish people were never a threat, they were an excuse by the Nazi's, something to focus resentment on.
Did the Jewish people carry out suicide bombing in Germany, did they try to change the system, no they just tried to get on with life, carry out their religion in private and hurt nobody.
Islam, conflict all around it, any one who criticises it is killed, always trying to gain advantage and special rights for it followers, always trying to change the society in which they have arrived in, but keeping out of that society in case it corrupts them. An ideology of hate and conquest.
They are chalk and cheese and in my opinion you insult those 6 million Jews who were murdered by the Nazi's by comparing them to the followers of a religious war machine that has killed millions, have you no shame.
If Islam was able to leave the Israeli's in peace in the miniscue plot of land under their control I would think that your and Jack Straws approach would have merit, but they can't, look what the Israelis offered, and it was refused.
But you can't see it can you, like ia786 can't see the importance of being able to question and challenge within a system of checks and balances has for freedom and democracy.
Daffersd:
Reason, common sense and logic do not apply when dealing with the above stickler who, like a cow in the field, keeps chewing the cud.
Among other things, he suffers from a condition known as
" flatulenza -Islamia"...
Sheik ver'mami,
True, very true.
Click on the link
http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/0000000CABCA.htm
Its an excellent article and really goes to the heart of the problem, (thanks Wolfgang.) I agree with this totally, I really hate the Euro-elites with a passion. I would not piss on them if they were on fire!!!
It was the Jews in the 1920's and 1930's. You took a break and blamed the communists in the 1950's through the 1980's, now we're back to blaming the Muslims.
I smell a stinking apologist! We're blaming Muslims for a good reason. Get your head out of the sand and stop denying there's an elephant in the room to prove how tolerant you are. Or does your "tolerance" come with equal amounts of denial and stupidity?
Count the number of bloody conflicts in the world right now, the places where innocent people are being slaughtered, beheaded, burnt, raped murdered and forced from their homes. What do they all have in common?
Sick Political Correctness and a hatred of America do not, and will not change the facts on the ground.
Not Swiss Christians, not Hindus, not Catholics, Atheists, Buddhist, Quakers, Jews or Noachides are terrorizing the world like MUSLIMS ARE... MUSLIMS, brother, like it or not!
Daffer: "And what happened afterwards, we learnt from our mistakes, and have become a higher level of civilisation."
King: Now who's an apologist? Part of having learnt from your mistakes is knowing when you're at it again. You're at it again.
Daffer: "The Jewish people were never a threat, they were an excuse by the Nazi's, something to focus resentment on."
King: Indeed, the Jews were never a threat. Neither are an overwhelming majority of Muslims andneither is Islam. You're at it again.
Daffer: "you insult those 6 million Jews who were murdered by the Nazi's by comparing them to the followers of a religious war machine that has killed millions, have you no shame."
King: Now you're obfuscating. Typical. I turn the tables - you are doing the EXACT, VERY same thing as happened in WWII and the Jewish people. You are taking an entire religion and all of its followers and casting a wide-beam of blame upon it/them. You are lumping the behaviors of criminals and thugs in with the millions of peaceful people who happen to practice Islam and are trying to whitewash this as "necessary to protect your civilization."
Daffer: "If Islam was able to leave the Israeli's in peace in the miniscue plot of land under their control"
King: Unilaterally myopic. There also needs to be a basic recognition of Palestinian rights as well if you are to achieve meaningful, lasting peace. The unilateral, bottomless support for Israel has ben at the forefront of strained Islamic-Western relations and its about time that the West takes it seriously so we can be done with this business.
Kemaste: "I smell a stinking apologist!"
King: Naw, you actually smell Sheik Yermami's "flatulenza -Islamia." I guess that's supposed to appeal to the cerebral folks?
Kemaste: "Count the number of bloody conflicts in the world right now...What do they all have in common?"
King: That's easy! Foreign occupation, corrupt governments and oil. You seem to want to rush right to the religion nd gloss over the other irritants that may be causing people to feel irritable to fight. Indeed, common criminals and thugs are trying to operate under the guise of religion but you are happily taking the bait and blaming everyone who is Muslim.
Kemaste: "Sick Political Correctness and a hatred of America do not, and will not change the facts on the ground."
King: Neither will myopic neo-con rot, or racist monikers like "sheik yer'mami" above change the facts on the ground, either. Foreign occupation, corrupt government and oil are still facts on the ground. Now, you can obfuscate your way around those and just blame a religion, or you can grow up and see the bigger picture that haunts us so we can do something about it, "brother."
"Now, you can obfuscate your way around those and just blame a religion".
KT, we blame the religion because of what is said by MUSLIMS THEMSELVES about the role of Islam in the world (see following interview).
Totalitarianism is the same whether it is under the guise of Nazism, Communism, or Islamism.
Scott Atran: What are the conditions for Islam to be strong?
Abu Bakar Bashir: The infidel country must be visited and spied upon. If we don't come to them, they will persecute Islam. They will prevent non-Muslims converting.
SA: What can the West, especially the US, do to make the world more peaceful?
ABB: They have to stop fighting Islam. That's impossible because it is sunnatullah [destiny, a law of nature], as Allah has said in the Koran. If they want to have peace, they have to accept to be governed by Islam.
SA: What if they persist?
ABB: We'll keep fighting them and they'll lose. The batil [falsehood] will lose sooner or later. I sent a letter to Bush. I said that you'll lose and there is no point for you [to fight us]. This [concept] is found in the Koran.
SA: Have you met Osama Bin Laden?
ABB: No, no. I want to though. After my release, I hope I can meet him.
SA: Where will you find him?
ABB: If he still exists - but how could I? I have sympathy for his struggle. Osama is Allah's soldier. When I heard his story, I came to the conclusion that he's mujahid, a soldier of Allah.
SA: You will always be on his side?
ABB: His tactics and calculations may sometimes be wrong, he's an ordinary human being after all. I don't agree with all of his actions. Osama believes in total war. This concept I don't agree with. If this occurs in an Islamic country, the fitnah [discord] will be felt by Muslims. But to attack them in their country [America] is fine.
SA: So this fight will never end?
ABB: Never. This fight is compulsory. Muslims who don't hate America sin. What I mean by America is George Bush's regime. There is no iman [belief] if one doesn't hate America.
SA: How can the American regime and its policies change?
ABB: We'll see. As long as there is no intention to fight us and Islam continues to grow there can be peace. This is the doctrine of Islam. Islam can't be ruled by others. Allah's law must stand above human law. There is no [example] of Islam and infidels, the right and the wrong, living together in peace.
Daffersd: "I really hate the Euro-elites with a passion. I would not piss on them if they were on fire!!!"
King: Such strong language coming from a person who cannot understand what would dirve a person to strap on a suicide bomb.
1. Perhaps their behavior is "influenced by a variety of motives and emotions." (from your article put into different perspective)
2. Perhaps their behavior "can represent a call to arms, or it can be a cry for help." (from your article put into different perspective)
Per your own words and flagrant use of comments like "I really hate Euro-elites" you really are no better than some slob who feels the need to blow up a bomb to finally be taken seriously. You are both driven by the same frustration and hatred. Toss in hopelessness and there you have it - a person with nothing to lose and willing to take people with them.
From Fjordman's blog:
By Sebastian Villar Rodriguez, a Spanish journalist:
Europe died in Auschwitz
I was walking along Raval (Barcelona) when all of a sudden I understood that Europe died with Auschwitz.
We assassinated 6 million Jews in order to end up bringing in 20 million Muslims!
We burnt in Auschwitz the culture, intelligence and power to create.
We burnt the people of the world, the one who is proclaimed the chosen people of God.
Because it is the people who gave to humanity the symbolic figures who were capable of changing history (Christ, Marx, Einstein, Freud...) and who is the origin of progress and wellbeing.
We must admit that Europe, by relaxing its borders and giving in under the pretext of tolerance to the values of a fallacious cultural relativism, opened it's doors to 20 million Muslims, often illiterates and fanatics that we could meet, at best, in places such as Raval, the poorest of the nations and of the ghettos, and who are preparing the worst, such as the 9/11 and the Madrid bombing and who are lodged in apartment blocs provided by the social
welfare.
We also have exchanged culture with fanaticism, the capacity to create with the will to destroy, the wisdom with the superstition.
We have exchanged the transcendental instinct of the Jews, who even under the worst possible conditions have always looked for a better
peaceful world, for the suicide bomber. We have exchanged the pride of life for the fanatic obsession of death. Our death and that of our
children.
What a grave mistake that we made!!!
KingTolerance, get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning. Well I bit of hope has come my way on JihadWatch, so there.
Actually we are not at it again, I have not seen any Muslims rounded and taken to the nearest gas chamber, or shot in the head and dumped into a mass grave. Frankly the thought of having a civil war where people are killed fills me with horror.
I happen to think that there is a huge difference, and we get back to the core of our differences which you chose to ignore all the time, it is that Islam is not a peaceful religion, in fact its built around war and hate. That some people chose not to follow that, such as ia786 is to their credit as people, but to rely on that for my own personnel security is a bit weak, especially as the killers and criminals seem to be so seccusseful in this religion. I have never heard of a Jewish suicide bomber?
What about Israeli rights, or is that just the right to be pushed into the sea. I seem to remember that Barak offered them an excellent deal. If that had worked out perhaps some Palastinians could have lived in Israel proper evantually. I hope you don't tar Europe with that bottomless support, because they don't support Israel. Its not just about Israel...
Actually the bit about suicide bombers is rather amusing as it is detailed on JihadWatch.
I did not say I would blow up the Euro-elites, I just would not do anything to save them, big difference there charlie boy.
I have everything to lose, two great kids and a cellar full of great wine, I got some great bottles ready in 10 years time..., I intend to be there to drink them!
KT explains jihad throughout the world: "Foreign occupation, corrupt governments and oil."
None of this applies to the murderous Jihad currently unfolding in Southern Thailand. And though the government in the Philippines is somewhat corrupt, fighting corruption has never been a stated reason for the jihad of Abu Sayyaf and the IMLF in the South of that country.
No occupation. No oil. Just Muslims killing their fellow countrymen for Allah.
Wake up KT! The slumber of denial doesn't become you.
I read an article see link below that if cyprus blocked Turkey's bid to join the EU. Britain would recognize northern cyprus and allow Turkish troops to stay indefinately.
http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/news/344161.asp
Who's side are these SOB's on. Dont be fooled by Blair and his stance on Iraq. This is the same guy who was all gungho to bomb serbia in 1999. The British have always supported the Muslims over non-muslims. I for one put almost all the blame on the london bombings on blair himself. I think if America wants credibility in its fight against terrorism its got to dump Britain as an ally.
I think Brits really got to wake up and find out what they are about. They are not pro-European. They may be atlantacists who believe in closer cooperation with the states. But who needs these guys who are nothing but traitors to western interests. I think in my books Britain has surpassed France and Germany as the most dispicable country in Western Europe. To all the decent Brits on this site. I hope you guys can change the direction your country is heading.
If you can get through some 'Heidegger Lite' and my Right-wing religious bigotry, there's a nice piece on the Left fascism that is the modern Western ethos, (written by a Trotskyite,) that summarizes our post-modern situation quite nicely, I believe. I kept my Right-wing religious bigot comments to a minimum, but it's still a longish piece with some references to technical philosophical ideas that some might find less interesting than I do. For those with the patience for it I think you'll find the article worthwhile. The entry begins with a short piece by Theo. Dalrymple, continues with a piece from Tech Central, and then there is an (abridged) essay that really cooks, according to me.
I'm starting to like this writer, Bruno, he seemingly being too a Right-wing religious bigot.
King Tolerance:"There also needs to be a basic recognition of Palestinian rights as well if you are to achieve meaningful, lasting peace. The unilateral, bottomless support for Israel has ben at the forefront of strained Islamic-Western relations and its about time that the West takes it seriously so we can be done with this business."
The Patent idiocy of this statement is truely jaw dropping, but its just another liberal Shibboleth uttered as a matter of course when discussing Israel. According to king's pretzel logic, peace and bacchanalia will break out between the dar al-Islam and dar al-Harb if only we sell out the Isarelis. King will not or cannot admit that islam is the motor which drives Palestinian terrorists to commit murderous acts. Palestinian Christians do not engage in suicide-murder their Muslim neighbors do.
Daffersd: "I have not seen any Muslims rounded and taken to the nearest gas chamber, or shot in the head and dumped into a mass grave. "
King: Yet.
Daffersd: "Frankly the thought of having a civil war where people are killed fills me with horror."
King: Everything seems to fill you with horror. Nevertheless, many Muslim nations have endured the horrors of civil wars and civil strife and many are still traumatized and destablized by this.
Daffersd: "I have never heard of a Jewish suicide bomber?"
King: Ahhh, but you certainly do hear of Israel lobbing a missile or bomb in the general direction of Palestinians and many innocent Palistinians do die. Stripping away all of the other flavorings you like to add to the stew, innocent people are dying on BOTH sides and they read things far, far differently than you or I. Suicide bombing comes from desperation. Eliminate the desperation and you eliminate the desire to kill one's self for the sake of.....anything.
Daffersd: "What about Israeli rights, or is that just the right to be pushed into the sea. I seem to remember that Barak offered them an excellent deal."
King: Certainly Israel has rights but not without limits and not without compromise. Remember: Israel was carved out by foreign governments to serve as a zionist state. The history behind this is one of the keystones to the horrific relations between the West and Islam. There are two sides to the story and one side feels ignored. You can be a pragmatist and try to fix or stick to your current, solutionless, bigoted way of thinking and live in a double-standard induced fear.
Daffersd: "I did not say I would blow up the Euro-elites, I just would not do anything to save them, big difference there charlie boy"
King: No, but your profound disgust as evidenced by your "piss on the if they were on fire" zinger is testimony enough to your own extremist, frustrated thinking, mi amor.
Daffersd: "I have everything to lose, two great kids and a cellar full of great wine, I got some great bottles ready in 10 years time..., I intend to be there to drink them!"
King: Why not invite a Palestinian person in to enjoy some of that "elite" wine of yours? Why not acknowledge that blight and desperation exists in the world, fueling anger and disgust at YOU as you sip your "elite" beverages and enjoy your children while you blame their religion? Maybe they'll recall their children who were killed by an errant bomb or missile, fired by a US helicopter in Baghdad or Israeli tank in Gaza as they enjoy your Bordeaux that has finally matured. You see, they are human just like you and while they come from a different world, they still wish to enjoy the finer things in life just as you do.
King: Foreign occupation, corrupt governments and oil..
Really? Sudan, Thailand, Indonesia, Phillipines, Kashmir are all occupied? By who?? Who's occupying Bali? Who's occupying Saudi Arabia? Who was America occupying when we got hit on 9/11?
I have some advice for you, sonny. Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.
spencerd: "According to king's pretzel logic, peace and bacchanalia will break out between the dar al-Islam and dar al-Harb if only we sell out the Isarelis."
King: Below is a rather balanced article that sums up my position. There are also other links on that website. Sorry that balance = pretel logic to you.
Nobody ever said it was easy to see both sides to a story so you may have to bend your neck a little to see it (especially after your jow dropped after having your mind blown by a different opinion).
http://atheism.about.com/library/FAQs/islam/blfaq_islam_palconf.htm
Kemaste: "I have some advice for you, sonny. Better to keep your mouth closed and be thought a fool than to open it and remove all doubt."
King: Thanks, but I have some advice for you as well. DO A LITTLE HOMEWORK BEFORE GIVING OUT ADVICE. Eat some humble pie while you do your homework below. You have a lot of reading to do if you are going to actually have an educated, balanced, pragmatic argument with me.
Sudan = Corrupt, military state, civil war, tribal tensions
http://www.sudantribune.com/article.php3?id_article=10426
Thailand = Corrupt, old ethnic tensions being exploited by a Malay based separatist group.
http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/09/22/news/thai.php
Indonesia = Corrupt, ethnic tensions, previous peace among Muslims and Christians
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/events/indonesia/special_report/285520.stm
Phillipines = Ongoing civil war, corruption, history of religions being forced into the cultutre
http://www.los-indios-bravos.com/english/eng_hist.html
Kashmir = disupted territory between India and Pakistan, occupied by BOTH governments which are also nuclear powers.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2036461.stm
King:
Your linked article in question might appear balanced to you, but to me this is Michael Moore-style writing at its most trenchant and opinionated and does not in any way reflect Palestinian opinion in the territories or diaspora. I know many Palestinians and they are without exception against a Jewish state ANYWHERE in the Middle East. They regard Haifa, Jaffa, Acre and Nazerath(cities all within Israel) as occupied territory period.
This is the reason why Arafat rejected Ehud Barak's most generous offer at Camp David: a Palestinian state in Gaza, most of the West Bank and part of East Jerusalem. Arafat, forever the political animal, knew that his days would be numbered if he had signed on to this. Now his people are stuck with a EU-funded Conradian heart of darkness strip on the Mediterranean. But of course that's just my opinion.
spencerd: "to me this is Michael Moore-style writing at its most trenchant and opinionated.."
King: Fair enough. Perhaps we can at least agree that the real soution is somewhere inbetween.
spencerd: "Now his [Arafat] people are stuck with a EU-funded Conradian heart of darkness strip on the Mediterranean. But of course that's just my opinion."
King: Indeed it is nothing more than opinion, an opinion in which you are entitled to have but not without reasonable debate.
I have been to the M.E. on 4 separate occasions and when I was there, I found many English-speaking Arabs who were very eager to sit and chat with me about an American point of view over a very strong coffee. I found their views refreshing and strikingly devoid of the sneaky maliciousness that is portayed in the media. The folks I spoke to were self-proclaimed Muslims, many of them educated in the West and returned home. They already knew how Arabs are presented to the Western viewer and found my open-mindedness as refreshing as I found their lack of maliciousness. The word "peace" was almost never left without the word "justice" close-by. Indeed, Arabs do not view the West's policy towards the M.E. as just and the Israel/Palestine conflict is testimony to this. They also told me of their disgust for the West's support of brutal dictators and other corrupt governments in the region simply to make sure the oil stas cheap and plentiful, screwing the Arab people as a whole in the process. This has fueld decaded of resnetment and anger, as justice is considered as a sacred, human right in that region.
King intolerance:
Your ignorance is stunning.
It's racists like you who perpetuate the stereotype of the "poor helpless" Palestinian. It's your incessant soft racism and low expectations that never hold Palestinians accountable for anything.
Like minded bigots in the EU and UN et al are responsible for the appalling situation Palestinians are in now. Instead of making them responsible for their action by holding them accountable to keep their agreements -- they're always forgiven -- enabled, given a pass. "Gee, their less capable then even ordinary humans!"
But it's even worse than that. The bar of morality is set so low for Palestinians they
don't even have to lift their feet to step over it!
They've been given opportunity after opportunity to respond to the endless goodwill gestures, painful Israeli concessions and "Land for Peace" exchanges. Instead they've broken every agreement they ever signed. They've reneged on every promise ever made.
If they're suffering because they haven't tasted a good bordeaux they only have themselves to blame.
KT
Never!
And who have they to blame, I seem to remember that the Lebanon civil war was caused by the Palestinians who also took great delight in killing Christians.
Palestinians hide among the civillians, also the Israeli attacks are taregtted at the militants, while the Palestinians target deliberately people on buses.
Yes your right, the Israeli side is certainly ignored in Europe. But back to our disagreement, I don't happen to see anything from the Palestinians about accepting Israel, next is the West Bank and so on.
So you like rich powerful bureaucrat lording it over you and ignoring you, and having no accountability to the people, where a straight no means yes, really, yes I am frustrated at the lack of democracy in Europe. I don't like unaccountable people running things, they tend to make naff decisions.
Why, they would not appreciate it, the only red they like is blood, I will never forget those two Israeli soldiers beaten to death in a PA jail and that man holding his hands out of the window. I heard that one of the wives phoned her husband and was told by one of these people that they were beating him to death.
Of course I blame their religion and their lack of humanity and reason.
This is a bit topical, but I feel that I'll just barge in anyway:
"...Britain hates itself. Schools refuse to teach history that risks making pupils proud, and use history instead as a means of instilling liberal guilt."
That comment hangs. What does it mean? Why is it likely true? If it is true, what does it mean for us as a collective entity, the West?
Britain is a unified nation of micro-cultures. It is so due to prosperity. One can afford the luxury of being a skateboard kid or a disco dancer or an opera goer. Peasants are a mono culture, not significantly different from one place to the next, because they all share the same poverty-- intellectual and social.
Tolerance is close to zero in monocultures, in cultures of rigid hierarchical social systems where there is little capital surplus that loosens the bonds of tribal loyalties and allows for individuality. Where there is collectivity, where there is no sense of private property, there is little sense of individuality and personal privacy, that being the right to own ones own life. If one is tied by poverty to the clan or the tribe, one has little room to be private and individual, to be a skateboard kid or a disco dancer. Privacy is subsumed into the greater needs of the collectivity. Where's the appeal?
So why the self-hatred and the philobarbarism? Why the love of poverty and collectivity? Why the love of collectivity and hyper-conformity? Why the romance with Romance?
Both Left and Right share this longing for pre-lapsarian "authenticity." Both Left and Right are fascistic, anti-Modernist, and completely reactionary. Why the hatred of Modernity and the longing for the primitive? Look then at the longing for horoscopes and crystals and tarot cards to make sense of life in opposition to the beauties of rational Modernist science. Look at a good half of the West's population in love with irrationality. Look at the slogan-chanting, hate-filled mobs rioting against "globalism."
But what accounts for the decay of Modernity into dhimmitude and reaction? Why the neo-de Maistreism of barbarian infallibility? Why the hatred of Modernity and the love of the primitive?
Pissedoffcanadian:re- NU Toni - This is the same guy who was all gungho to bomb serbia in 1999. The British have always supported the Muslims over non-muslims.
It is not just the UK but the US, which over the last three decades, has been consistently on the side of muslims in any conflict with non-muslims.
As for the US/UK attack on Serbia - this is a disgraceful chapter in Anglo-American policy. Serbs, unlike the muslims, were fervently on the Allied side, even in the dark days when victory was by no means assured. Yet, despite there being evidence that Bosnian muslims or the KLA were not angels, the US-UK attacked Serbia. The US was in this case the leader. Clinton-Albright bowed to Saudi pressure and domestic circumstances.
It is my contention, that to a large extent, the catastrophe of 9/11 was brought about because of our intercession on behalf of muslims in Bosnia and Kosovo. As far as the Jihadis are concerned, they do not see a secular West, but a Christian West. Even the so-called secular Turkey, sees the EU of all entities, as a Christian club. When the Jihadis saw that Christian states not just stayed neutral, but actively assisted the Jihadis in their conquest of a part of Christendom in Europe itself, they were invigorated. In their eyes, it was a sign from allah, that victory had been given to them by allah. He had sown weakness in the minds of the Infidel.
I really cannot think what sort of circumstance will arise, that will lead to a disenchantment with Arab/muslim nations and people, with the official elite. 9/11 failed to do so, in fact it gave rise to even greeater dhimmitude in the US, and ditto in the UK after 7/7. Given the level of ignorance or fear or stupidity, I sometimes think that even a succession of nuclear bombs going of in the US and the UK, will not change such attitudes. They will die with them and take us along with them.
The paradox in this is that many muslims are keenly aware that they are in servitude to a hate-filled ideology. Their personal desires and ambitions are thwarted, as they are confined to a prison of faith. They see no means of escape except being freed by outside intervention. Our (the Wests) dhimmitude to islam, closes that option for them, leaving them no alternative but to reconcile themselves to their fate and faith. The reverse side of this coin is, that we are then surprised that there are no moderates in islam.
UK threatened Greek Cypriots
http://www.ntvmsnbc.com/news/344161.asp
It is unlikely that Britain could have done this on its own. It is now becoming clear why the presence of the US envoy, in talks that were purely about EU matters, was essential to thwart the will of a majority of Europeans.
Now to the matter of our own indifference to what is happening in Britain. This is a natural consequence of the catastrophic fall in educational standards in the UK. Analysis and reasoning have given way to appeasement of the PC agenda. The history of Britain and the huge beneficial impact it has had on the rest of the world is ignored. Instead, Britain is painted as a villain for which it has to beg forgiveness from the rest of the world. The fact that Britain brought enlightenment, judicial law and order, modernity, science and technology to the world, is of no consequence. Jack Straw, who incidentally, believes that the decimal number system is an invention of the Arabs, likes nothing better then the prostrate position. This is the man who is in charge of Foreign policy. What is he going to do when he is in India, and someone decides to take him up on his ignorance.
British children have not been taught history in the real sense. I'm not in anyway proposing that a white-washed version of history be taught - that is the Marxist or islamist approach. No. Just a plain no nonsense approach.
The debasement of education has been going on for over three decades. The schools now have teachers who themselves were the victims of government interference in schools when they were pupils. So we have a spiralling downwards in educational standards. Poorly taught pupils who become poor teachers, who give rise to pupils, who are worse then the generation before, and so on.
The last two decades has seen a concerted attack by governments, both Conservative and Labour, on the last bastion of academic excellence - the universities. These institutions are also now in free fall. Singapore and other such places, do not regard a British degree of any worth, and consequently do not send their students here. Yet just 30 years ago, a British university degree was considered the best. Only Oxford and Cambridge are still exempt from this malaise. I wonder for how long these two venerable institutions can hang on, given the financial pressure they are being subjected to by Nu Labour in its mad drive, for what in newspeak, it terms as "modernisation".
It is this debasement of Britain by the BBC, the government and many other institutions, the lack of any appreciation that Britains's achievements in bringing forth the modern world are second to none, that has led the populace under the impression that Britain's role in the world has been, on the whole, one that has to be ashamed of. It has led to the the downfall of pride in Britain and its achievements, and has opened it to cultural dismemberment by a predatory cultures of the very worst sort.
Britain, with its insane policy of appeasement, now grovels at the feet of islam, the very worst totalitarian ideology - worse then Nazism and Marxism combined.
Well, I'm off to crack open a beer. Enough of me for this thread.
DP111 great post. The sad chapter in the balkans is going to open again. I read that Koffi Annan of "the oil for food scandal" fame will recomend that talks for an independant Kosovo to begin. If this happens I believe all will be lost. This will show that Islam has gotten its way in the heart of Europe. I pray that Russia will stand up for them. Now I understand why Russia backs Iran. I thought Bush was a great leader. Now I realize he is a fool. He is backing Muslims everywhere to fight his rivals. He supports Pakistan over India. He supports Saudi Arabia. He supports Turkey over the rest of Europe. Russia has to play hard ball until the US realizes that it cant screw over countries by backing Islamic fascists. It has to start aligning itself with civilizations that have similar values. Only the US has the power to take leadership on this issue. And unfortunately people in the states have only have to choices. Not the democrats or the democrats. I will always hope that the democrats lose but the way bush is acting I dont know if it will matter much longer.
King Tolerance:
What a smug, bombastic moniker you choose for yourself. "I'm the king of tolerance, all the rest of you are benighted bigots."
But since you raise the issue with your very nickname, let me ask you this: how is a society of tolerance supposed to react when the intolerant invade and threaten to topple it using the very ideology of tolerance on which it is founded? Where do you draw the line?
When Theo van Gogh was butchered in broad daylight on an Amsterdam street, it was because his murderer deemed him an infidel. You might twist that around and claim that van Gogh was intolerant for making a movie critical of Islam's treatment of women. It's their "culture," after all, you shouldn't judge other people's customs, etc., etc., blah blah blah.
But there are certain things that, taken in the abstract, cut loose from their religious or cultural moorings, we - and perhaps most especially King Tolerance - hold to be intolerable. Abuse of women, sexism, homophobia, that sore of thing. When committed by Westerners, for example some redneck from the Rust Belt, these are all seen as unforgivable.
But what happens to them when you throw a turban or a burka on the actors? Suddenly the mass protests by feminists and the tolerant liberal nobility disappear. See, then it becomes a matter of not offending another culture.
So in fact it turns out that the Princes and Princesses of Tolerance don't really object to the acts themselves, only to the ones committing them. If you slam your forehead on the ground five times a day while waving your ass in the air to Allah, then you're beyond criticism. Anything you do to offend against human rights or other people's culture becomes excusable either by means of cultural relativism per se or else because of bad things done to you by the West. The existence of Israel, the oil business, old colonial grievances - all these are brought forward to justify the evil committed by the followers of Mohammed.
So, at what point do you, King Tolerance, tell the intolerant preachers of the caliphate and purveyors of death to the infidels that they will no longer be tolerated in your society?
At what point should the Weimar Republic have had the cojones to ban the Nazi and Communist Parties, whose avoid ends were to use the democratic process to put an end to democracy?
You can find tractates on almost any street in Londonistan avowing the same aim with regard to today's infidel institutions.
At what point do you ban them and proscribe their authors, King Tolerance?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Time for Nekema's Hammer,
Pay attention KT,
http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?entry=7856#c0019
Sorry, in the fourth-from-last paragraph, it should read "avowed," not "avoid."
Sorry for the typo Nekama. (Wherever you are)
Carolyn2, that was a brilliant piece. Thanks for the tip.
pissedofcanadian: Thanks.
You might like to read of further symptoms of the malaise that afflicts Britain
http://uppompeii.blogspot.com/
Quite a few articles from this Brit blogger on this issue.
"The debasement of education has been going on for over three decades."
Longer, in fact; the question is why? We understand that there is a problem, even what the problem is, but the remaining problem is what accounts for the problem? I identify it with philobarbarism, but what accounts for that? What seperates the Modernist from the Left dhimmi fascist and his/her Right fascist ally?
Is the draw of fascism so strong that half of our populations will forever be fascistic? Look at reality: Most of history, from 5,000 years ago at the advent of the Agricultural Revolution till the 1780s in Europe people lived in a state of primitive fascism. Today, most of the world is in the same social condition. Only small areas of the world, the West, is Modern, thanks to the three revolutions that make Modernity: The American, French, and Industrial Revolutions. If a good half of the populations of the modern world hate Modernity, then what hope is there for the rest of us? We were always a small minority in the world, and now we are becoming a small minority even in the realm of Modernity itself. How do we account for that?
The slipping back into primitive fascism, into pre-Enlightenment fascism, is to rejoin the majority of Humanity. Is that what the bigger half of our post-revolutionary populations want? It might be that the revolutions of Modernity are so radical that it is necessary to abandon them for the "natural" state of primitivism.
Obiviously our school systems are failing to keep pace with Modernity. Why? Is the very heart of Modernity so bad that the majority of people in the West want to abandon it? If we can't address that honestly, and if we can't come out with an anwser that makes sense in terms of our current position regarding our future as a culture, then we are indeed simply awaiting the final collapse back int the norm of history.
What is the future? Should we be fascists?
http://nodhimmitude.blogspot.com
The ever repetitive Mohammedan spin-doctor 'King':
"There also needs to be a basic recognition of Palestinian rights as well if you are to achieve meaningful, lasting peace. The unilateral, bottomless support for Israel...."
yaddaydaddagagaga....
The undeserving Pali-Arabs have been given more 'support' from the foolish West than Israel, without justification, without gratitude.
The greenhouses in Gaza are destroyed, so are the Synagogues, yet the West offers them more money, for what? For Jihad, Jiziya, for bribes, to keep the 'intifada' going?
No buyers here for this kind of propaganda, KT.
The parasitical existence of the 'Palestinians' cannot be justified. Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Egypt, that is where they belong. But not even their 'Muslim-brothers' want them around, since nothing of any value can or will ever be produced by a people whose culture is hatred, fanaticism and destruction.
KT would have us believe that Islam is a "religion" - but evidently it is not: A totalitarian ideology based on conquest, slavery and booty will not and must not be permitted to spread in the countries of the infidels.
Using Nazi-Germany's holocaust against Jews to deflect from the invasion of Europe by millions of parasitic North-Africans does not wash:
Internment and mass-deportations are the only action Europe can take in order to save itself from the horror of Islamic domination. It will come to that, inevitably. Hopefully before it comes to civil war and the Balkanization of Europe...
King:
"Why not invite a Palestinian person in to enjoy some of that "elite" wine of yours?"
Islamo-fascists are entitled to rivers of wine once they reach Mohammeds bordello, not before. How dare you suggest we offend them by such an offer! We won't be accused of corrupting the sons of Allah....
Chewing the cud, like a cow in the field, causes a condition known as 'Flatulenza Islamiya'- Scientists claim that exactly these kind of greenhouse gasses cause the ozone-hole, the melting of the polar-ice and tsunamis.
There is a cure for that condition..
But in your case, I'm not so sure....
sonofwalker:
Good post. You have posted very many probing questions - almost a lament of the rationalist. These qusetions do not seem to have any answers.
I still fell that the seeds of decay lie in the collapse of educational standards in Britain.
DP111, I agree with your assessment that the educational system is failing, but I'm still left with the question of why we actively made that happen.
Decadent liberalism as it is today is not what it was in the 1960s: then, liberalism was the pursuit of greater personal liberty, deeper democracy, fuller access to Human rights. Yes, it was a matter of unrestricted screwing around and taking dope; but it was more, it was a striving for individual freedom to be free of social conformity.
Today's liberalism is a perversion of the past liberalism, something I refer to as Left dhimmi fascism. I trace the roots of that fascism back to the late 18th and 19th century counter-Enlightenment reactionary movements to restore Crown and Pulpit order, that which was lost to the revolutions of France, America and captialism. From there one can imagine my laughter when idiots refer to me as a rightwing religious bigot. These are people who are so clueless it makes me laugh and puke at the same time. ( I have many hidden talents.)
Yes, the educational systems have devolved into idiocy. Yes, it started with the 60s liberalism of feel-good politics. I argue that the real down-turn into fascism began with the spread of identity politics, that coming directly from von Herder and his ilk, the blood and soil purists of linguistic-ethnic seperateness. But, what accounts for it?
I have today a wonderful piece by a Trotkite, of all people, who traces the development of Left fascism, but what he misses is the root psychology of the push toward fascism. Without that we are no further ahead. What draws people toward Irrationality? If our intelligentsia is fascistic in their philobarbarism, impelled or compelled to fascist primitivism, excited by barbarism and "authenticity," then where do we go from there?
I'll spare our gentle readers the idea of direct action. Instead I'll suggest a look at the short essay by Theo Dalrymple and the long piece by the Trot. If we don't grasp the central problem of our cultures' liking of fasscism we are doomed to embrace it fully, regardless of what the Islam outcome is. As Bruno points out above, we might well slide into an ethnic Euro. fascism a la 1930--.
I look forward to some suggestions.
I have wondered after contact with Europeans--Celexa or Zoloft in their drinking water??? No. In the beer and wine.
I am going to scream!!
What Palestinian People? There never was a Palestinian people. They are transplanted Jordanians and Syrians. They left Israel when
the Arabs planned to invade. And by the way, none
of the Arab countries wanted them and it was the
Arabs that created these refugees.
Palestine is a Jewish name!
The evil Egyptian Arafat created the PLO for his own evil purposes and he died being worth $6 bil dollars while his so called "people" lived in
poverty. What a con game and so many idiots (mostly leftists) bought into the "big lie"
I dare you to show me ANY Palestinian history, culture, language, etc.!!!!!!!!
"I dare you...." learjet0450
No can do, mate. But if you want some idea of why this is happening, may I humbly suggest that if you get a few moments you check out the further escapades of today's Left dhimmi fascist parody that started out so nobly:
http://nodhimmitude.blogspot.com
Just put this stuff up a bit ago.
Not much time but I shall try and get to as many as I can:
Kemaste: "It's racists like you who perpetuate the stereotype of the "poor helpless" Palestinian."
King: I take it you did not bother to read the links I posted for you.
Cato: "What a smug, bombastic moniker you choose for yourself."
King: Thanks, this means its working. I don't suppose you think the monikers like "Sheik Yer'mami", or "Terminator", or "Helgu Khan" are equally as bombastic since they share your perspective? Of course not!
Cato: "how is a society of tolerance supposed to react when the intolerant invade and threaten to topple it using the very ideology of tolerance on which it is founded?"
King: Like it always has - by identifying, isolating and alienating the people who are doing it, not by taking the paintbrush and sloshing wholesale bigotry unto anyone who happens to believe in the Koran.
Cato: "When Theo van Gogh was butchered in broad daylight on an Amsterdam street, it was because his murderer deemed him an infidel."
King: His murderer is an intolerant, radical criminal. Period. I simply refuse to blame anyone other than the person who did the murdering.
Cato: "At what point do you ban them and proscribe their authors, King Tolerance?"
King: I skipped to this point since the rest of your diatribe got tiresome. I have always proscribed radicalism of any sort. At what point to YOU then offer a solution? Shall we round up the first born of every Muslim living in the EU and deport them? Shall we bulldoze each and every mosque? Shall we subscribe to the racist, bigoted "solutions" of the past? Hah?
"Sheik Yer'mami" "The ever repetitive Mohammedan spin-doctor 'King'"
King: Romper room! Nap time at 13:00.
The Mohammedan romper "King":
"...wholesale bigotry unto anyone who happens to believe in the Koran..."
The Koran is the problem, mate!
164 Jihad verses that call for terror, genocide, slaughter and slavery for infidels, that is the most bigoted and perverted ideology under the sun. Like cannibalism, it must be eradicated.
KT: "Shall we round up the first born of every Muslim living in the EU and deport them?"
All of them, not only the first born.
KT: "Shall we bulldoze each and every mosque?"
YES YES YES!!! Pleeeeaazze!!!
KT: "Shall we subscribe to the racist, bigoted "solutions" of the past? Hah?
We shall not back off when a bigots call us "racist:"
Islam is not a race. Race has nothing to do with it.
Islam is a violent, a totalitarian ideology that must be destroyed.
The sooner the better!
Wolfgang's comments are very enlightening. Most of Western Europe seems to be experiencing a identity crisis. The great pillars of Western civilization: philosophy, religion, law, and science have lost their moral bearings because Europeans are fixated on preserving a secular identity that is independent from its Judeo-Christian heritage.
The Christian kingdoms of the west were built upon the hearts and minds of ancient Europeans who were faithful to its spiritual and moral underpinnings. They held tightly to their Judeo- Christian heritage because it represented everything that was pure and noble about who they were as a people. Europeans of the past always understood that other Muslims kingdoms stood outside of their borders, awaiting to advance its own causes. It was no secret to Christians that Muslims had gained an accurate reputation for converting other peoples by force. Muhammad was a warrior prophet who guided the Muslim people to use force if necesary to spread its spiritual doctrine. Muslims were not viewed as possessing a pure or true religion. They were loked upon with caution and suspicion. Europeans understood that Muslim kingdoms used coercion, slavery, torture, and, of course, violence to spread its cultural influence.
The Jewish people were not associated with a Jewish empire or a Jewish kingdom as were the Muslims. They did not pose as great a threat to the Christian kingdoms of the west in terms of their penetrating cultural influence. Although many Jewish businessmen were despised for charging interest and having great influence in the economic/banking centers, they did not pose a threat to the Christian kingdoms of Western Europe.
Today in Europe, the cultural blueprint is a vastly different one. Waves of Muslim immigrants throughout all parts of Europe are changing the nature of Western society.
Rather than embrace the Judeo-Christian heritage that built the kingdoms of the west, Muslims today are seeking to overturn it and create a new Muslim one that advances a Middle Eastern world view. Muslims believe that their religion is the final revelation of the faiths of Christianity and Judaism.
What will Europe be like 25 years from now? It is anyone's guess, but if the current trend continues, there will be far more mosques and burqas on the streets of Europe.
Islam is not a peaceful religion, in fact its built around war and hate. That some people chose not to follow that, such as ia786 is to their credit as people, but to rely on that for my own personnel security is a bit weak, especially as the killers and criminals seem to be so seccusseful in this religion.
Geopolitics, the Israeli issue, and the rest are interesting in and of themselves, but this blog is about examining the message of Islam and how it is understood by Muslims who are listening to religious teachings. I venture that most commentators on this site do not doubt the existence of peaceful Muslims. Certainly I don't. But it does not follow automatically that Islam itself is peaceful. When Muslims reject jihad terrorism the injustices of Sharia, do they do so from Islamic piety, or from a humanistic belief that peace and equality are right? Robert Spencer and colleagues argue the latter. I've asked many times in this forum for anti-Spencer posters to explain the theological basis that peaceful Muslims claim makes them right in the sight of Allah and the terrorists wrong. Restating the well established fact that millions of Muslims are peaceful people gets us nowhere. We're here to learn about whether Islam is peaceful. An opinion poll of the Muslim populace is not useful, I certaintly wouldn't a population of mostly nominal Christians in a western country for advice on Christian theology.
sonofwalker:
A very educational post.
I take your views of old fashioned Liberalism with some satsfaction. I always regarded myself as a Liberal, ie one who who puts the individual and his conscience at the centre of society, self reliance and criticism, rather then looking for outside outside agencies for one's failure. Todays liberalism is really a passive acceptance of idiocy.
You stated: I argue that the real down-turn into fascism began with the spread of identity politics, that coming directly from von Herder and his ilk, the blood and soil purists of linguistic-ethnic seperateness. But, what accounts for it?
I take a somewhat mundane explanation of our present predicament. Affluence has always led to lethargy and decay in discipline of the mind. Even a dope addled hippy of the sixties, was full of questions about personal freedom and choices - a Liberal. Yet with time, affluence also created a group of people, a majority in fact, where success came with little thought or effort. Britain's economy though in trouble at the time, was still sufficiently vibrant to support such attitudes. But there were others who felt the pinch, and quite naturally took refuge in ethnic-linguistic tribalism. So each contributed in its own way to a fascist order.
Yet I believe, that all this could have been avoided, if educational standards in schools and universities, had not been deliberately traduced for political reasons.
The immediate future is not good for Britain. Nu Labour's vision is of everyone becoming a client of the state. No individualism and self-reliance, just dependents on the state. In this conception of Nu Labour, it has found a group of people who love nothing better then to be given Jizya. No wonder Muslims are flocking to Britain and Nu Labour accepts them with open arms. They complement each other.
This is going to be desperately hard to turn around. My hope is that America will not fall to the state that Britain is in, and will provide Britain the necessary resolve to get itself out of the hole.
The chances of a return to Euro ethno-fascism is becoming ever more possible, and should fill all reasonable people with dread.
PS
Do you have a link to the essay by Theo Dalrymple?
sonofwalker;
Re-reading my post, it seems a little disjointed. I simply typed it out as it came along. Apologies. In my view though, it is just mental laziness and lethargy, and the consequent deliberate debasement of education, that is the cause of our regression to cultural backwardness.
What solutions exactly does KT offer here, save burying his head in the sand?
"No, no, no, I only blame the killer and not islamic theology. The fact that the Quran (a book I'm really not familiar with) abjures believing muslims to kill non-believers over and over clearly has nothing to do with the murder of Van Gogh, or of the harassment his son receives at the hands of other muslims. Or that Van Gogh was killed precisely because islam says all those who insult it or its execrable prophet must die. And I don't care that women, non-muslims and homosexuals are treated like animals in islamic countries - we mustn't do anything to inhibit islam in this country, and, besides, I don't care about those people."
Tiresome, sad, childish, small-minded. Cowardly? I suppose we might just say "stupid" and leave it at that.
KT has nothing, no solution save hiding and cowardice. Even someone with the least grasp on the situation would realize quite quickly that dealing with islam as Soviet communism was dealt with would be relatively simple to enact and enforce. Why can KT not grasp this? His position is amusing, however: "Don't call anyone until a trained medical professional arrives."
Kingie, your bottle is ready, little fella.
"Hey! No ad hominem! No ad hominem! Wahh!"
LMAO!
Prophet Geoff
BBUH
Prophet/Imam/BBUH: "Tiresome, sad, childish, small-minded. Cowardly? I suppose we might just say "stupid" and leave it at that."
King: At the risk of plagiarism, I think the very, exact thing of you and your taunting wastes of time you call posts. At the end of the day, you pump this page so full of empty ad hominem that I consider this one of my few "wins." You see, the more crap you post, the more acronyms and haughty crap that gets recorded in the archives, the more of an ass you make of yourself! It will eventually matter...