"School that nurtured the Islamic call to arms," from The Australian, with thanks to the Constantinopolitan Irredentist:
The Islamic school in Tenggulun has some of the most notorious alumni in the world, having been a place of learning, preaching and refuge to many of the key protagonists in the October 2002 Bali bombings, which killed 202 people.Today, it has 150 students from all over the far-reaching archipelago and, according to its founder Muhammed Khozin, he teaches his students to do with words what his brothers chose to do with bombs.
The students The Australian met there yesterday quizzed this reporter about his religious beliefs and debated the issue of whether the holy trinity in Christianity was false. They muttered among themselves about whether I was really a reporter or an Australian intelligence agent....
Welcome to the breeding ground of radical Islam in Indonesia. It started with Jemaah Islamiah spiritual leader Abu Bakar Bashir's Ngruki school in Solo, Central Java, and has spread into other pesantren across the country....
Khozin, as well as being one of the school's founders, is the brother of three of the 2002 Bali bombers, Ali Gufron, known as Mukhlas, Amrozi and Ali Imron, who all attended and taught at the school.
As head of one of Indonesia's most notorious families, he is keen to distance his community from the second Bali bombings, which he says are "different" to the first. His brand of Islam, he says, is different. He says the community has moved on and does not want to be linked to the new "tragedy".
But to Khozin, there is no difference in his ideology and his brothers'. The difference is in how they chose to act on their anger at Westerners flaunting their liberal values. He refers to the non-Muslim community as Kaffir Dhimmi, the name the prophet Mohammed gave to the non-Muslim communities. He says it is the responsibility of Muslims to fight this group by convincing them to behave with respect towards their Muslim neighbours.
He says the fight should not be "physical" but a fight with words.
Khozin does not believe that Westerners and Muslims can live side by side while Westerners continue to believe, for example, in allowing women to wear bikinis at the beach and to drink alcohol.
It is a "morality war" brought on by Australians and Westerners in general refusing to respect his culture.
This is another species of the kind of talk that clouds men's minds. Liberals tend to think that if American foreign policy were adjusted, there would be peace with the Islamic world. Some conservatives tend to think that if American immorality were reined in, there would be peace with the Islamic world. Both are tempted to wax rhapsodic about statements like Khozin's "morality war" appellation, which plays into the assumptions of both Left and Right. However, the general ignorance of Islam in the West leads all too many analysts on both the Left and the Right to breeze right past his statement about dhimmis. They don't realize that Khozin and his ilk will not acquiesce to peaceful coexistence with non-Muslims if America were suddenly to become moral (by their lights) and isolationist. Rather, Khozin and Co. would continue to believe that Allah was commanding them, after the example of Muhammad, to offer unbelievers conversion, subjugation, or death (cf. Sahih Muslim 4294). And that tripartite offer doesn't hinge on any behavior of the infidels at all. It is an offer that must be made to them simply because they are infidels.
He said his school "prepares the student to make sure foreigners do not do that in Indonesia". You only have to talk to his son, 19-year-old Afif, to know that the young people coming through the Islamic schooling system take that message to heart and maybe even beyond.He says Bali will not be safe from terrorism until Australians and other Westerners visiting there behave in a way that is respectful of Muslim culture. Ask Afif what he wants to do when he grows up, the answer is simple: "Fight for Islam."
Then comes some wishful thinking from The Australian:
This is probably best interpreted as youthful spirit and not a declaration of jihad but his commitment is to ending what he sees as a Western corruption of his country. It shows that with such a hardline philosophy on what is and what is not acceptable, it is a fine line between fighting with words and fighting with bombs.While Afif's uncles, Mukhlas -- the commander of the 2002 bombings -- and Amrozi, who played a key role procuring most of the equipment they needed, are facing the death penalty, he doesn't view what they did as wrong because they scared away many Westerners. He considers the Muslims who died as martyrs; he says the Westerners who died are not his concern because they were unbelievers.
A quotation from Sahih Muslim 4294, if anyone is interested:
"It has been reported from Sulaiman b. Buraid through his father that when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) appointed anyone as leader of an army or detachment he would especially exhort him to fear Allah and to be good to the Muslims who were with him. He would say: Fight in the name of Allah and in the way of Allah. Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah. Make a holy war, do not embezzle the spoils; do not break your pledge; and do not mutilate (the dead) bodies; do not kill the children. When you meet your enemies who are polytheists, invite them to three courses of action. If they respond to any one of these, you also accept it and withold yourself from doing them any harm. Invite them to (accept) Islam; if they respond to you, accept it from them and desist from fighting against them. Then invite them to migrate from their lands to the land of Muhairs and inform them that, if they do so, they shall have all the privileges and obligations of the Muhajirs. If they refuse to migrate, tell them that they will have the status of Bedouin Muilims and will be subjected to the Commands of Allah like other Muslims, but they will not get any share from the spoils of war or Fai' except when they actually fight with the Muslims (against the disbelievers). If they refuse to accept Islam, demand from them the Jizya. If they agree to pay, accept it from them and hold off your hands. If they refuse to pay the tax, seek Allah's help and fight them."
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/019.smt.html
Are all infidels polytheists in this writing? I thought Christians were "people of the book", somewhat superior to the polytheist, though I have seen Christians referred to as polytheists because of their belief in the Trinity.
"He refers to the non-Muslim community as Kaffir Dhimmi, the name the prophet Mohammed gave to the non-Muslim communities. He says it is the responsibility of Muslims to fight this group by convincing them to behave with respect towards their Muslim neighbours."
And if that doesn't work, then terrorize, bomb and kill them until they submit as the Quran commands.
"Fight against those who disbelieve in Allah"
This is what looks to be the action that is required, along with calling yourself Muslum. Not our actions, we could mirror them( Muslums) , but if Allah is not given his due, then Muslums must fight. So, what we do as far as changing our ways won't do anything, only accepting Allah . Right?
But this Islamic school represents only a "tiny minority" of extremists, and the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful and moderate. That's what several intelligent, well-educated Westerners keep arguing over at the Examined Life philosophy forum.
Once again, I plead for people here to visit that forum and weigh in -- only myself and a guy named "Marcus" are manning the bastions over there! HELP!
http://examinedlifejournal.com/discus/
(from the tree on the left, choose "Last Day" or "Last Week" to view the few Islam threads I have created, and read the nauseating responses)
Are all infidels polytheists in this writing? I thought Christians were "people of the book", somewhat superior to the polytheist, though I have seen Christians referred to as polytheists because of their belief in the Trinity.
Posted by: Viking5
If no one else addresses your queries I'll come back and do it properly. For now I can't be bothered to do much:
The classical response is as above, that those who sell themselves can be dhimmis if they're "monotheists." Bin Laden and his mates have decided that we've gone so far from our chance of dhimmitude that we're liable to death without warning, having already been warned, or called to Islam. At a personal level we are still liable to dhimmitude, but if we die in the meantime, Muslims don't care. It's found in the texts if you care to sort through the missives bin Laden sent out. Google for him and wade through it if you care to.
Shirk, the association of more than one god with Allah, can mean so many things that it becomes low comedy: Nike shoes, for example, can be shirk, associating Nike the god on ones shoes with Allah. Nation states and secular rule is shirk because there is an association of power with leaders other than Allah. And on it goes. If no one takes up the challenge, and if you really care about this stuff and can't navigate on your own, I'll help you find the sources. This stuff really makes me puke.
According to Muslims, the "Book" of which Christians were "protected" People is not the received New Testament, not the received Old Testament, and not the two combined into the Christian "Bible". The "Book" the Muslims are referring to is a lost Book where Allah imparted his "guidance" to Isa (Jesus). Somehow, this Book got lost and/or garbled and corrupted by the Christians.
So, in an arrogantly paternalistic fashion, the Muslims take pity on the Christians for being the confused members of a garbled tradition that reveres a great prophet of Allah (i.e., Jesus), and therefore takes these confused pitiful members under the protective wing of Islam through the extortion of dhimmitude backed up by the constant threat of military, police and mob violence whenever there is Islamic rule by Sharia.
Part of the corruption and garbled tradition of Christians involves the "shirk" of the Trinity (and the necessary concomitant, the divinity of Jesus). The only reason Christians occupy a niche of humiliating second-class status slightly above more full-blown polytheists (such as black African pagans) is because their tradition preserves, however imperfectly, the story of a great prophet of Allah (Jesus).
"He says Bali will not be safe from terrorism until Australians and other Westerners visiting there behave in a way that is respectful of Muslim culture."
Even though the Balinese are Hindu...
Will be "safe from terrorism" in our own countries, then, if we don't "behave in a way that is respectful of Muslim culture"? Apparently not.
A Muslim madrasa (pl. madaris)is a tiny part of the biggest NGO in the world. The purpose is a pious one but over the years, in partucular the days of materialistic pursuits, this puritan institution with pristine glory has been so miused by vested interests under the cover of jehad that the basic purpose of imparting education to millions of offsprings of poor Muslims has been lost. Over the years, these madaris have become breeding ground for terrorists. The US preferred to close her eyes towards this dangerous development for her petty political interests but now she has paid and is still paying a heavy price for this act of omission. Time has come up when the US, in the unipolar world, should come out clean and act ethically in the interest of humanity. The Madrasa in Bali is no different from majority of madaris who are being misused.
A Muslim madrasa (pl. madaris)is a tiny part of the biggest NGO in the world. The purpose is a pious one but over the years, in particular the days of materialistic pursuits, this puritan institution with pristine glory has been so miused by vested interests under the cover of jehad that the basic purpose of imparting education to millions of offsprings of poor Muslims has been lost. Over the years, these madaris have become breeding ground for terrorists. The US preferred to close her eyes towards this dangerous development for her petty political interests but now she has paid and is still paying a heavy price for this act of omission. Time has come up when the US, in the unipolar world, should come out clean and act ethically in the interest of humanity. The Madrasa in Bali is no different from majority of madaris who are being misused.
This is just more of the same old story: When in Islamic lands the infidel must respect Islamic rules. When the Muslim is in Western lands the infidel must respect Islamic rules.
When is the non-Islamic world going to stop admitting people (from this abomination masquerading as a religion) who have no desire whatsoever to integrate into the existing society but rather seek only to have that society acquiesce to them? I think by now it is easy to see that Muslims have no allegiance to any county, only to their cause of world domination.
Muslims should be encouraged to leave the West, ASAP, inducements, deportations, activist mosque (80-90% of them)removals.
If one is Muslim, or Muslim sympathetic, then one is PART OF THE PROBLEM.
Let Muslims live in their glorious part of the world.
Too bad this killer zombie will never be able to comprehend this reality Islam has NO CULTURE!!!!
Islam NEVER WILL POSSESS ANY CULTURE. Islam is a cultural desert of the highest order. It has NOTHING of its own to offer. No architecture. No art. No music. No stories. No humanity. Nothing. Except orders, we are told, coming from "al-lah." Although it is plain that Islamic self-deception and innovative styles of executions ocasionally border on low art, in a darkly comical, but assuredly unintentional way.
Islam in its evil way all its own, actively, systematically, and consciously eschews art of all kinds. It is unable to tolerate any type of deviation of its totalitarianist conceits.
Islam is the ultimage atrophication of the human soul. It is "a cultural disaster parading as God's will."
Islam as all its followers will gleefully admit, has no respect for human life. No life hence no art. No life hence no culture. No life hence no literature. Period.
Thus, there is nothing for non-Muslims to respect. But everything to avoid.
This man, Khozin, loses his argument. And, in place of art, he kills and spreads the lies of Islam. And kills. And Kills. And kills. Like all "good" Muslims are told to.