Mukhtar Mai speaks in Chicago

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. It seems to run deep in Pakistan also.....

A Qur'an teacher who is unable to read or write, no doubt because she is female, speaks authoritatively what is in the Qur'an, informing us that the circumstances in which she finds herself have nothing to do with Islamic law.

Yes, that caught my attention, too.

She's a perfect example of a Muslim who could be shown, by the right interpreter, what the religion she's been teaching really says.

Oh, and I wonder which tribal elder had the awful chore of sodomizing the boy.

Q."Where does it say in Islam that you should violate women?"

A.Quran 4.3, 4.24 - have sex with slave women or captives as you please (no mention of marriage, or consent)

Oh, and many, many ahadith...ok?

If only Aayan Hirsi Ali could spend the day with her.....
They both have courage.
One needs knowledge.

Even after gang rape she lives in fantasyland...

Would some kind person who could read, write and speak Urdu/Arabic help this woman to read the Quran and show when and where women could be raped and abused - its there in plain sight; what the prophet Mo did to women, in more ways than one (including children).

Technically, sentencing someone to be gang raped is un-Islamic. But a woman could be sentenced to death for being gang raped and, provided you couldn't find four male witnesses, it would not be un-Islamic.

"Where does it say in Islam that you should violate women? Our Islam does not allow this, absolutely not,"

Just as, in Islam, "peace" means something different to the word as we understand it, so too does "violate" or "rape". Women or young girls are "married" without their consent in Islam and this is not seen as rape. But it is. Even in the UK marital rape was not seen as a crime until the early nineties, so a Muslim woman, immersed in the cult since birth would not see that she had been raped if it was by her husband, or if she had been out unescorted or showing some ankle.

This not a religion. It is a political ideology, but also a cult. People need de-programming if they've been in cults even for a short time. North Korean refugees who escape to the South have to spend some time in detention being de-programmed from their political brainwashing. So how do you de-programme a Muslim, who has had been in this straitjacket all his or her life? All the more admirable are Muslims who manage to de-programme themselves - people like Ayan Hirsi Ali or Ali Sina.

Living in Fantasyland is Mukhtar's defense mechanism -- the truth about her religion would be a devastating blow to her. In fact, as the truth dawns or her (as it likely will when she becomes literate and can read for herself, not just the Qur'an but world news as well), she will become very very angry. Right now she's denying that her religion could have permitted her rape but she's angry at her attackers and the tribal council. When full knowledge comes to her, she'll be angry at her religion too. Denial is the first stage of grief; anger comes later.

She's courageous, no doubt about that, and I'm glad she's been chosen as a Woman of the Year by Glamour. But Mukhtar is still living in a self-protective fog. When it lifts, I hope she has some strength left to see her through.

When revealing his sacred commandments through Mohammed, God was a bit of a libertine.

PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH

Force not your slave-girls to whoredom... but if anyone forces them, then after such compulsion, Allah is oft-forgiving.
-- Koran 24:34

We know what We have appointed for them (believers) as to their wives and the captives whom they possess; in order that there should be no difficulty for you and that you should be free from blame.
-- Koran 33:50

You may put off whom you please, and you may take to you whomever you desire. You may defer any of them you please, and you may have whomever you desire; there is no blame on you if you invite one who you had set aside. It is no sin.
-- Koran 33:51

You may put off whom you please, and you may take to you whomever you desire. You may defer any of them you please, and you may have whomever you desire; there is no blame on you if you invite one who you had set aside. It is no sin.”
-- Koran 33:51

Why forbid yourself that which Allah has made lawful to you? You seek to please your consorts.
-- Koran 66:1

PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH PBUH

If I didn't know that Islam is one of the world's great religions (W & Tony told me so), and that Mohammed was the Holy Prophet, my guess from up in the Peanut Gallery here would be that Mohammed was promising Nookie in order to motivate his troops.

Plus, any Moslem Man enterprising enough to read the Hadiths must really be horny, cuz the Sunnah glorifies all kinds of Moslem rape.

With divine guidance like this, is it any wonder that the Moslem Men are such hot sex-machines?

"Mukhtar, a soft-spoken woman who could not read or write ... a30 year old Koran teacher"

That says it all. She is representitive of most muslims including the Clerics and Imams who come to this country and say that Islam is a "religion of peace". They then argue with when you expose what is written in the koran.

They have never read the Koran, nor have they read any of the haddith which one MUST know in order to make any sense out of the Koran. They deny that these "Islamic fundamentalists" are simply following what is written in the Haddith and Koran, that they are simply following the ways of a murderous, woman hating thief of a man, an uneducated evil man who proclaimed himself a prophet of a black rock god called "allah".

All it takes to become a Jr. Imam is to be able to recite the koran. You don't need to read write, or even know how to tie your shoes.
This woman should know better, she's violating the tenents of Islam by saying Islam is something it's not, that it respects women when it doesn't, that rape isn't allowed when in fact it is. Women are not equal in Islam, regardless how much Islam claims they are.

Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.”

Qur’an 4:11 “Allah directs you in regard of your Children’s (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females…. These are settled portions ordained by Allah.”

It must be so if our pal Al says so.

Muslim:B1N142 “‘O womenfolk, you should ask for forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell.’ A wise lady said: Why is it, Allah’s Apostle, that women comprise the bulk of the inhabitants of Hell? The Prophet observed: ‘You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. You lack common sense, fail in religion and rob the wisdom of the wise.’ Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense? The Prophet replied, ‘Your lack of common sense can be determined from the fact that the evidence of two women is equal to one man. That is a proof.’”

Amazing proof that is.

Qur’an 4:43 “Believers, approach not prayers with a mind befogged or intoxicated until you understand what you utter. Nor when you are polluted, until after you have bathed. If you are ill, or on a journey, or come from answering the call of nature, or you have touched a woman, and you find no water, then take for yourselves clean dirt, and rub your faces and hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving.”

It's pretty bad when dirt which somebody could have pee'd on the day before is considered cleaner than a muslim woman. Washing with dirt is one of those acts stressed repeatedly in the Koran. It's no wonder Islamic countries are disease ridden.

Qur’an 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them.”

Beware Muslima, show those dirty ankles and you could be shut in a dark room until you die. Imagine what happens if you are raped, and then accused later of dishonoring your husband for having sex with another man.
This woman is lucky to be alive, yet she comes to America and defends the book she has never read.

Muslims will use this woman, and this clause to prove that muslim women aren't too bright, half as smart as a muslim man (which isn't very smart to begin with)

Bukhari:V3B48N826 “The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.’”

Ishaq:185 “In hell I saw women hanging by their breasts. They had fathered bastards.”

It's hard for a woman to "father" anything. "Allah" isn't to bright either.

Qur’an 24:34 “Force not your slave-girls to whoredom (prostitution) if they desire chastity, that you may seek enjoyment of [them in] this life. But if anyone forces them, then after such compulsion, Allah is oft-forgiving.”

Why the Koran even has such a stupid clause like that I'll never understand.

"You shouldn't rape women, force them to be your whores, but if you do, well, that's ok then. Allah understands and is forgiving."

There is a reason muslims are not taught to read the koran and hadith. If they did, they would realize that no "god" who supposedly created the universe could have possibly written garbage like that.

Chaz...sex machine...you mean like 200lbs of dynamite with a two inch fuse? I wouldn't know actually, but rumor has it that short fuses are common in Islam...also some of the plumbing leaks, but I wouldn't know about that either...

We should have a cross cultural exchange. Can we send Babara Streisand, Cindy Sheehan, and, ummm Madonna to her village?

I wonder if CAIR will let Ms. Mai give a speech for them?

There is a book called "Slave: My True Story" wherein a young Sudanese woman details the story of her terrible, painful life. The early mutilation of her genitals... the Arab "missionaries" that came to teach her "to be civilized"... the eventual Arab raid wherein she was abducted, saw her friends massacred, raped (at about age 10) and sold into slavery. For the next ten years she washed dishes, did laundry, kept house, and cooked for an Arab family of SIX in Khartoum. Her mistress sent her to London to work for her sisters family, she saw someone that looked like one of her old tribesmen, and she escaped (England initially DENIED her appeal for asylum and ALMOST SENT HER BACK, but enough bleeding heart liberals got together to save her...

...AND OF COURSE the last words in her book are Insha 'Allah, "God willing." The whole damn thing is sprinkled with praises to the mean old motherf**ker, Allah, who ruined her life. Her's a poor child whose life was absolutely destroyed (she still can't visit her surviving family members) and she makes part of her book a commercial for Islam.

I think it would probably be easier to kick Crack cocaine than Islam. Really, I do. I've never tried either, but if I had to make a choice, pass the rock pipe.

**************************8

Duh_Swami... the "tiny fuses" would explain the propensity for them to demand Female Genital Mutilation... the usual procedure results in the vaginal entry being made very, very small... much smaller that it was meant to be.

The "tiny fuses" would also help explain the Arab preoccupation with anal intercourse, especially pederasty. And the emphasis on marrying virgins, and receiving 72 virgin whore slaves upon death.

Granny:

You have said it all in three lines - congrats.

kj...Tiny fuses...I'm glad to see you have a good grasp on the subject. But dont forget there are no blown fuses in Islam. Allah dont allow it. Any muslim who blows a fuse is in for harsh punishment from der boss...Ask any muslim, 'have you ever blown a fuse?' The look on their face is worth a million bucks...

Mullahmasher:

Spot on with your post.

It's no small task to be able to cite appropriate Qur'anic chapters and verses as quickly as you have.

Do you have them in a searchable database? If so, would you mind sharing?

Some sites with lots of quotes showing the honour and respect Islam accords women. And let's not forget that they have been misinterpreted (sarc):

http://www.vinnomot.com/AKasem/IslamicWomenDay.htm

http://www.chowk.com/show_article.cgi?aid=00000956&channel=university%20ave
(Ghazali)

http://debate.domini.org/newton/womeng.html

This is my favourite, from the last site
(under 'Women's Deficiencies'):

That Sadr ad-Deen Shirazi classifies women as animals is a delicate allusion to the fact that women, due to the deficiency in their intelligence and understanding of intricacies, and due to their fondness of the adornments of the world, are truly and justly among the mute animals [al-haywanti al-sa^mita]. They have the nature of beasts [ad-dawwa^b], but they have been given the disguise of human beings so that men would not be loath to talk to them and be compelled to have sexual intercourse with them. That is why our immaculate Law [shar'ina al-mutahhar] takes men's side and gives them superiority in most matters, including divorce, "nushuz," etc.

--
Women are merely *disguised* as human beings. That about sums it all up!

Just to clarify, Islamic law does not stipulate this punishment for this "crime," but it is impossible to imagine a scenerio without Islam where the same conclusions about "justice" would be drawn. Saying Islam has nothing to do with it is ridiculous.

They have the nature of beasts [ad-dawwa^b], but they have been given the disguise of human beings so that men would not be loath to talk to them and be compelled to have sexual intercourse with them

That makes Tertullian, with his 'devil's gateway', sound like a silver-tongued ladies' man.

PRCS:

Another example of how the Religion of Peace (really) treats its women.

You asked me a question last week about the enforcement or lack of enforcement of certain criminal laws if the perpetrators were found to be moslems engaged in female genital mutilation.

I started a long post, then got distracted and lost it overnight. I spent the weekend and yesterday working on another problem, but I have been thinking about your question and pulling down a book from time to time.

I have not heard of any public service employees such as paramedics or police personnel failing to enforce laws that would otherwise be enforced if it were not for the fact that the perpetrators were muslims, regardless of the alleged crime. That is certainly not to say that such a thing has not happened, and maybe even happens regularly. It's just that I have no knowledge of it.

On the other hand, it is widely reported in Texas, and elsewhere, that the immigration laws are routinely being ignored all the time, and violations of several kinds take place by the tens of thousands every day. Some cities, including Dallas and Houston, have sanctuaries for illegal aliens, hands-off policies, "don't ask" policies, etc.,

Texas laws are fairly typical of most states. Police and paramedic personnel are licensed and regulated by the state, and hired at the state, county, and local level. There are some private paramedic services. Federal law enforcement personnel, and there are many from agencies that you wouldn't necessarily expect (Environmental Protection Agency, Treasury Department, Post Office), are licensed and regulated at the federal level.

There is a broad duty to report offenses against children, set out in the Texas Family Code. the Code puts the responsibility on any "person" who has "cause to believe" that a child's physical or mental health or welfare has been adversely affected by abuse or neglect. There are several agencies to whom a report can be made.

The Family Code further and specifically imposes the duty on any "professional" which includes anyone licensed or certified by the state or who is an employee of a facility licensed, certified, or operated by the state and who normally has direct contact with children. The term "professional" includes teachers, nurses, doctors, day-care employees, employees of a clinic or health care facility that provides reproductive services (i.e., abortion clinics), juvenile probation officers, juvenile detention and correction officers.

The Code further states that the requirement to report applies "without exception" to a person whose communications may otherwise be provileged, including an attorney, a member of the clergy, a medical practitioner, a social worker, and a mental health professional.

There is no comparable requirement to report crimes against an ordinary adult.

Interestingly, however, Texas has long recognized a duty of sheriffs and other police personnel to "preserve the peace" within their jurisdictions, and the legislature gave broad powers to law enforcement officers.

For example, the Code of Criminal Procedure provides that "It is the duty of every peace officer to preserve the peace within his jurisdiction. To effect this purpose, he shall use all lawful means. He shall in every case where he is authorized by the provisions of this Code, interfere without warrant to prevent or suppress crime. . . . He shall give notice to some magistrate of all offenses committed within his jurisdiction, where he has good reason to believe there has been a violation of the penal law. He shall arrest offenders without warrant in every case where he is authorized by law, in order that they may be taken before the proper magistrate or court and be tried."

And Texas still authorizes "the posse"! CCP section 2.14: "Whenever a peace officer meets with resistance in discharging any duty imposed upon him by law, he shall summon a sufficient number of citizens of his county to overcome the resistance; and all persons summoned are bound to obey." And, it's a crime for the citizen to refuse.

Of course, one can imagine the headlines if this law were actually put into practice by some diligent but naive deputy.

This duty of the officer to enforce the law is ancient, going back to Rome, I think. After all, their badges are simply symbolic shields.

For many years, the Texas Penal Code provided that a public servant who "refrains from performing a duty that is imposed on him by law or that is clearly inherent in the nature of his office or employment" was guilty of the offense of Official Misconduct. This law also prohibited such things as the unauthorized exercise of official power, misapplication of funds or property in his possession. The offense required that that the offender had to do it with the intent to obtain a benefit for himself or to harm another.

Significantly, the law on official misconduct was revised in 1983, and the provision that prohibited the failure to perform a duty was repealed. I do not know the justification for this.

So, if the mayor gives a directive that the paramedics are to look the other was in cases of FGM, there may not be anything anybody can do about it except the victim. In those circumstances, if she does not step forward and complain, there is no case.

(If the FGM prevents her from voting, however, there is a violation of civil rights and the Justice Dept. may want to get involved. Then again, they may not. /sarcasm)

See ya'

'nuff for now.