Rania Al-Baz flees Saudi Arabia, "won't come back"

Poor woman, having to lose her children as if she hadn't been through enough.

I saw an interview with her ex husband. He said, 'Of course beating your wife is completely wrong. Totally wrong. Unless she does something she shouldn't'.

This unwitting betrayal of assumptions almost made me laugh, putting me in mind of the time when Barbara Cartland said, 'Of course there are no class distinctions, otherwise I wouldn't be talking to someone like you.' Except this one isn't funny.

Much as I can understand a woman fleeing a violent husband (been there etc.) I cannot imagine a mother abandoning her children, no matter how terrible her life was. She says she is "thinking about them"- anyone want to explain eactly what she mwans by that?! Golda Meir was right when she said the whole thing about Arabs loving their children as much as they hate us, and doesn't this just once again show the enormous cultural differences between them and us? I'm sorry, but as much sympathy as I have for her, I'm appalled at the desertion of her kids.

I hope that Rania continues to speak out, loudly and often. Her message about abuse in Islam needs to be clear, unapologetic and not laced with references to "true Islam doesn't preach violence." She has given herself the gift of freedom. She should use it wisely and effectively. Unfortunately, she will have plenty of time to devote herself to speaking out, as she will probably never see her children again. That's the Islamic way. BTW, I wonder if any of the Muslims who comment on JW have anything to say about this case. I bet not.

Lybbysmom - I think you're being unfair. Was she supposed to stay in a relationship where she gets beaten half to death? And she can't take the children with her because that's the Islamic way, as Maryrose said.

Blame her brute of a husband and the vile religion.

Interested --

You've made my rainy day.

libbysmom:

Not everyone defines themselves through their children and in any case, Al-Baz may not have "deserted" them -- we don't have the facts yet.

Also, it's possible her sons (even if they are still very young) could have already been turned against her. Don't underestimate the effects of day to day anti-woman Islamic conditioning on their young minds. Even her daughter, if not of the independent mind of her mother, might also have bought into that mindset.

Al-Baz didn't abandon those children. What she did was to save the life of their mother, in this case, herself. Within Saudi society, she likely had no place to hide and with an enraged violent husband looking for her, what choice did she have? With one near-death assault from him, the chances were high that another would not be long in coming.

Look at her photo in the original piece in Arab News and you'll see a very beautiful woman, albeit heavily overdone. Sadly, this is common in Islamic countries -- there is usually no moderate middle ground for women. It's either super heavy make-up and drop-dead sexy outfits (as seen on TV announcers, etc.), or bland, expressionless faces peering from under swathes. Islam appears to have few naturally beautiful, relaxed women, comfortable being themselves.

I congratulate Rania Al-Baz on her courage and I hope she speaks out loudly and clearly about her treatment within the Islamic family (is this what is meant by "family values"?), and her protection (or lack thereof) from Saudi authorities.

Former Marine Captain Josh Rushing and former smarmy interviewer David Frost have joined Al-Jazeera. No doubt, for both, the price was right. Each will be a Talking Head, no doubt directed, as a dutiful though well-paid mezzobusto, to what the Arab Muslim powers that be tell them, both as to form, and content. Is there something else I've left out?

One suspects that Arabic-speaking, Saudi-educated Rania al-Baz, with her considerable experience at broadcasting to the Arab Muslims, will not be extended a similar invitation any time soon.

Now why is that, do you think?

Because, Hugh, she might speak the truth -- and we know that's too painful for Islamic societies?

Or because she might remind viewers what's really meant by Islamic "family values"?

Or because Al-Jazeera doesn't want to increase security to prevent a stalking male from seeking out Al-Baz?

Or because Al-Jazeera doesn't want an on-camera murder -- so-called "honour-killing" or not?

Or because Al-Baz in her new-found independence might give Arab women reason to think, to question, to believe they have a right to a life too, independent of any man in their lives?

Or because no man could be found brave enough to to accompany her to work and home again, as required by Islam?

Or because for Al-Baz, money doesn't talk?

Are any of these right, Hugh?

"Not everyone defines themselves through their children"

This comment has to the most senseless argument I have ever seen as an excuse for abandoning children to a brute. Given the man's history of violence, he will very likely treat them like he treated their mother.

No, you don't have to "define" yourself through your children in order to have an OVERWHELMING MORAL OBLIGATION to ensure their safety. Not to mention the simple fact of love....

I pray she has some plans for bringing them out, or that they are with someone other then their father. From what I understand, she does have custody.

Jen, I hope you never have kids.

to Libbysmom, There are a large number of women duped by muslim men to love and marry and bear children for them, but after the legal beatings or other abuse, not to mention finding out about 3 other wives they decide to leave and find the children are legaly the property of the husband in Islam.>
The children are told the animal that was their mother is an apostate or worse and the children are kidnapped for the father, if out of the muslim country or gaurded by other family 24 hours a day to prevent the removal by the woman.>
Watch the movie with sally fields "not without my daughter".>
Also expect nothing from the State department as they are pro islsam or powerless.

There's a whole chronology of events surrounding this case at http://muttawa.blogspot.com/

The site's a good one if you want to get a good laugh with an inside look at the madness in the KSA that masquerades as quotidian life.

Doesn't this just about sum it up?
Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.”

As I have said before...I don't believe in reincarnation, but what a fitting punishment for all muslim men to have to return to earth as muslim women.
for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves
That is infuriating!

treehugger:

You got me all wrong! I'm a Mom to four, and a Mama (Granny) to six -- all well and happy, no serial killers among them.

My remark was a sideways reference to a poster's nickname which defined her through her daughter and because that poster had assumed that Al-Baz's abandonment of her children to a Saudi father was worse than staying with them and having them likely witness the murder of their mother. The first requirement of an effective mother-child relationship is a living mother. In this case the mother had to sever the physical ties in order to save her own life, i.e., she had to define herself first as a living being, and second as a mother.

Love and safety - of course. I never said anything about not trying to ensure that for those three children. But how is a dead mother to do that?

Has any of you seen or heard this woman say anything remotely anti-Islamic?

First of all, she already divorced the creep. It is true that the man was not prosecuted, but ONLY because she "forgave" him, otherwise he would have been whipped.

Understand this, I am not defending the abusive ex-husband, but to assume that this woman is some sort of a symbol of freedom for Muslim women is naive to say the very least.

And the people that are condemning her for leaving her children behind have absolutely NO RIGHT to do so, unless they have been in a similar situation (which I seriously doubt).

Don't join the wagon train like the rest of the herd. Wait and see. And be reasonable.

Even in the West, the first focus of an abusing husband or partner - I have seen this at close range, and more than once - is turning the children against the mother. He will brainwash them to despise and hate their mother, and, if she has a supportive family, her relatives. In Saudi Arabia that must apply tenfold. I do not think this woman ever stood a chance of saving her children from the poisonous influence of their father.

On another subject, Hugh, is it true that Al-Jazeera has taken David Frost away from us? Well, as far as I am concerned that wipes out all their sins and more. I never thought I should be grateful to the bastards. Our Sunday mornings have improved no end with the witty and personable Andrew Marr taking Frost's place.

What makes you think that Rania would have any influence or contact with her children if she had remained. You are assuming that the rules regarding motherhood and child custody are the same as they are here. Saudi Arabian husbands and male judges are in the driver's seat.

Jen-

If the mother's life is in danger, what makes you think the children would be safe?
ANY mother who leaves her children in a situation that she can't handle herself is no better then a soldier deserting his comrades under fire.

Worse, in my opinion, since at least soldiers are trained, armed adults, unlike little, physically defenseless children.

Granted, there are a lot of facts that are unclear about her situation. I hope she made sure her children were safe before she left.

She's found freedom in Paris, but for how long?

10 percent of French men and women are muslims. In 10, 20, 30 years time, will France be a muslim country? Where will she go then?

So now this lady is in relative safety in Paris.

A year or so ago, a similar case of a Somali woman was horribly burnt, and actually left for dead. A Christian charity from Switzerland was able to smuggle her out of Somalia and to Switzerland. Now after such an experience, one would think that said woman would have had her fill of Islam. But NO. She is actively doing dawa in Switzerland.

So lets us see what Rania Al-Baz does.

Voltaire psoted:In 10, 20, 30 years time, will France be a muslim country? Where will she go then?

Frying pans and fires leap to the mind.

"Some women do not define themselves through their children"

And with any luck at all, some women will not assume what they do not know, and perhaps even (I am getting greedy here) some women will not look down upon women who in fact *do* define themselves through their children.

First, Libby is my collie. I have four boys as well, but Libby, my service dog, has a far less Jewish-sounding name than I do and therefore is my persona on this site. And to cut Jen off before she goes all whichways again, no, in fact I do not define myself through my dog, either.

Next, as another reader pointed out, I have heard RAnia al-Baz say exactly nothing about Islam itself, and just between you and me, I won't hold my breath waiting to, either.

In fact I do blame Islam for the treatment she received, but as a few people have pointed out, her children are in as much danger as she, especially her daughter. Trust me when I say that I completely understand the desire to just flee an angry and violent man- but stronger than self-preservation is the instinct to protect one's children, at least in some cases. I strongly believe that this instinct is more present in Western thought than in Islam, which is the point I was trying to make. So in other words, I guess you can say that I am a woman who defines herself through her devotion to the safety and walfare of her children even if her own life is at risk.

big mistake critisizing her for leaving the kids..

..acid facials ring a bell?

If the mother's life is in danger, what makes you think the children would be safe?
ANY mother who leaves her children in a situation that she can't handle herself is no better then a soldier deserting his comrades under fire.

If she was divorced from the children's father, odds are she had absolutely no control over or contact with her children anyway. The father or one of his relatives, most likely his mother or a sister, is probably raising the children. I doubt if the father is; he'll be too busy tending to his multiple wives and their dozens of offspring. The females will be married off at very young ages and if the boys are over six or seven, they are probably already so misogynic that they have no use for their mother.

Males own wives and children in Islamic families. Men always get custody of the children in divorces and usually send them to relatives to raise. I don't believe maternal "rights" exist in Islamic law, but I could be wrong. Muslim mothers are nursemaids and then slaves to their male children. Female children are slaves to the entire family until they are forced into marriage, and then it only gets worse.

Some of you have correctly mentioned that Muslim men always get custody. Even if she stayed in SA, she would not be able to access her children unless the father allowed it.

Likely the children are being raised by female relatives.

The article didn't say why she was not allowed to leave the country when she had left previously. I know a husband or father has to allow a woman to travel, but since she was divorced...? Was it the government that prohibited her travel?

There is nothing to prevent a family member from following her and taking vengence on her for the shame she caused them. She could also be in danger from French Muslims.

Perhaps she will be an encouragement to other abused Muslim women. I hope so.

Don't worry about the kids! If they are girls they'll be married off for sex with dirty old Muslim men (like IA and KT who approve of sex with kids - just because Mohammed did) by the age of nine.

So the father won't have to worry about the girls at least for long.

Sad but true. The first victim of Islam is Muslims, usually the women.

After all, their big brave Jihadi's don't have the balls to have ago at real soldiers, so women and children, Islam's usual victims (infidel and Muslim alike) suffering under Islam should come as no surprise.

It's interesting that someone mentioned the movie "Not Without My Daughter". It is right on the money. It's a good thing it was made when it was made. The politically correct "Bolsheviks of Beverly Hills" wouldn't touch anything that gave such an accurate portrayal of Islam now.

Rania al-Baz was NEVER safe in Saudi Arabia. It took a brutal crash course in the horrors of Islam for her discover this. No woman is EVER safe in an Islamicized society--especially not in Saudi Arabia.

Her children are probably safer than she would be over there. All women should abandon the Islamicized nations. Then they couldn't reproduce and Islam would implode.

We wish her a good, safe, and prosperous life wherever she goes.

Hold your horses! Rania still has custody of her children. Nothing prevents her from seeing them again. She has no legal issues with the kingdom. What has happened so far is that she wasn't able to fly out from the Jeddah airport and she choose an 'escape' route instead. (She's been flying to Paris frequently after the attack; the cosmetic surgery was paid by a royal princess). She has then said she doesn't want to go back to KSA. It might be that the 'government' prefer that she stays away, but don't forget that the legal system has supported her through this.
--> She has not abandoned her children!!

Note also that she said in public that she is forgiving her husband and that it has been reported several times that she did that to improve her standing with the court. So please don't give me this 'victimized' stereotyping! She is a courageous woman and by choosing to publish the pictures and file for divorce and custody, she is a pioneer in Saudi Arabia.

Please also note that she is explicitly stating that this is not about religion, but of a traditional beduoin society mixed with power and modernity.

You probably also want to see the portrait of her before the attack, she is indeed a beautiful young lady:
http://missmabrouk.blogspot.com/2005/10/abused-popular-tv-host-escapes-ksa.html

Hold your horses! Rania still has custody of her children. Nothing prevents her from seeing them again. She has no legal issues with the kingdom. What has happened so far is that she wasn't able to fly out from the Jeddah airport and she choose an 'escape' route instead. (She's been flying to Paris frequently after the attack; the cosmetic surgery was paid by a royal princess). She has then said she doesn't want to go back to KSA. It might be that the 'government' prefer that she stays away, but don't forget that the legal system has supported her through this.
--> She has not abandoned her children!!

Note also that she said in public that she is forgiving her husband and that it has been reported several times that she did that to improve her standing with the court. So please don't give me this 'victimized' stereotyping! She is a courageous woman and by choosing to publish the pictures and file for divorce and custody, she is a pioneer in Saudi Arabia.

Please also note that she is explicitly stating that this is not about religion, but of a traditional beduoin society mixed with power and modernity.

You probably also want to see the portrait of her before the attack, she is indeed a beautiful young lady:
http://missmabrouk.blogspot.com/2005/10/abused-popular-tv-host-escapes-ksa.html

A woman battered like Rania (see the photo) can be seriously and permanently damaged.

This happened to a woman who consulted a lawyer I know about a divorce. The client didn't take the advice to "leave him immediately" and six months later it was too late to save her face. She had been hit again, this time in the "right" place.

The blow to her face severed or crushed the facial nerve near the cheekbone which controls the facial muscles. Without the intact nerve, the muscles all drooped. In fact, the whole side of her face had fallen, and there was no surgical repair possible. She was disfigured for life.