The tyranny of the minority: elimination of holidays "just an excuse to hide bias against Muslims"

And so another piece of our culture gets chopped off, because of the rapacious greed for validation that Islam demands.

How many things have we already lost because of Islam? How many more things are we yet to lose because of Islam?

And they wonder why we dislike their so-called perfect "religion."

Muslim holidays cannot be described as "spring festival" or some such because the primative islamic calendar is lunar. In addition, the start of the year depends upon whether two "reliable" witnesses report seeing the new moon. In the late 1980s the al-Azhar ulema decided that it had not been sighted on the expected day and the whole calendar was shifted one day relative to the rest of the world. It was hilarious to see travelers coming into Heathrow from the Middle East a day late for their international connections and watching the airline agents explain to them that their connecting flights left yesterday and that there would be no refunds. Brilliant. You had to be there to savour the full measure of our delight in the spectacle.

Have a look at this link. It is about some supposedly modern and "enlightened" Muslim narrating word for word what some lunatic preaches on Fridays in Pakistan. I wonder why Rediff, a very respected website, especially for its quality allows such people to be a part of their team.
http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/oct/26spec.htm

The civilised world needs to ridicule and show its contempt for Islam. Someone, not me of course, should produce for sale on e-bay or elsewhere a high quality Koranic toilet paper. Nice soft paper embossed with text from the Koran.

You should hear the muslims whinning about backlash here.

Govno, as my Galway neighbor Dmitri McDermott would say.

If anyone here has ever done business with a ME entity, even if by correspondence only, one quickly realizes the ME work week is Saturday through Wednesday. I have been reminded of that fact more than once, mostly as a polite reminder that fax or electronic communications received on Thursday and Friday will not be immediately responded to, but sometimes admonished (and admonishments ignored) by the ME counterpart not to even send fax or electronic communications that could be received on those days.

Do these same employers in the ME give their (if any) Jewish and Christian employees time off to observe their respective Saturday and Sunday sabbath?

"How many things have we already lost because of Islam? How many more things are we yet to lose because of Islam?"

Okay, I've got some time on my hands, please tell me. How much things have we lost because of Islam.

1. Equality of man before God.

Is a No. 2 really necessary?

The Library at Alexandria.

Haggia Sophia in Constantinople.

Air travel without degrading security procedures.

Dear Sirs:

I have been wondering how long before the Muslims of Seattle, Washington, protest the BIG Cast Brass Pig in front of the main entrance to the Pike Place Market? There are also brass hoof prints in the pavement! In all the times that I have shopped at that market I have never encountered a womain in a "tint", but they are there, in the many Farmers Markets, and Sunday Markets. If piggy banks are offensive, what are the Muslims waiting for?

There are two issues here, the first being Ahmed Bedier's ridiculous claim to victim status and the second being what Robert pronounced as the school board's, "unwarranted dhimmi overreaction."

"I've got some time on my hands, please tell me. How much things have we lost because of Islam."
-- from a posting above

Security: at every airport, subway station, bus station, at every sports event, at every public lecture, in every office building, at every museum, at every large gathering and many small gatherings all over this country, particularly those that are specifically Christian or Jewish or Hindu, and certainly all those that are devoted to discussing the menace of Islam, security guards, security checks, long waits that use up, at airports alone, billions of man-hours that were never used up in such fashion before, all because of the threat not of "terrorism" but rather of Muslim terrorism. Measures taken to monitor emails, telephone calls, and so on, all of which may affect all of us, and none of which would have been necessary in the absence of Muslim terrorist threats which come out of Islam.

Freedom to travel over much of the world -- how many of us now realize that it will be difficult or dangerous, from now on out, to visit all of the sites of classical antiquity that can be found in North Africa, or the Middle East, or in Turkey, because these lands are now in the grip of Muslims, not all of whom are content merely to take the dollars of Western tourists. Think of how many attacks there have been, prompted in the minds of the perpetrators by the tenets of Islam, the doctrines of Islam, the attitudes of Islam, against Swiss tourists at Luxor (68 stabbed to death, and many decapitated), or tourists elsewhere in Egypt, or at Djerba in Tunisia, or at Marrakech in Morocco. One may well be indifferent to the little created under Islam, but what is now off-limits is the much created before Islam, or despite Islam.

Freedom to think -- how many of those born into Islam, over the last 1200 years, might have, but for Islam, made some kind of mark on the world, something in art, science, moral philosophy. Something, anything. Instead, what we have is pitiful, compared not only to the Western world, but to the civilizations of the East, and of pre-Columbian America? All of North Africa, all of the MIddle East, and many other places, subdued to Islam, their peoples deprived of many means of artistic expression, their ability to engage in free and skeptical inquiry permanently dampened.

Freedom of conscience -- the right, which took some time to develop in the West, but is permanently forbidden in Islam, to believe or not believe whatever you wish. Apostasy may not always and everywhere be punished by death, but it is certainly punished by death in some places, and the penalty is threatened everywhere, often carried out by vigilantes, as in the case of Farag Foda, the Egyptian writer. Think of what happened to Ali Dashti in the Islamic Republic of Iran, or to Taha Hussein in the Sudan, or to that nice Mr. Qambar (Robert Hossein) in Kuwait about six or seven years back. And even in the United States, those who wish to leave Islam are often very quiet about it, afraid of social ostracism (from others who have remained Muslim) and worse.

The indifference, or even hostility, toward their own pre-Islamic past that all those falling under Islam, forced to convert either by outright threat, or the slow anguish of the dhimmi status, at times endurable and at other times unendurable (and in those times, many will convert to Islam, only in order to end the unendurableness of being a non-Muslim in a Muslim-ruled world), are taught to feel -- with all the attendant impoverishment of their own societies and indeed, of themselves.

The extraordinary Total Regulation of Life, from what you eat, and what you wear, to exactly how you wash (shall I give some of the embarrassing details, about the odd number of stones, and so on, or would you prefer that I spared all of us that sort of thing -- just go to any Muslim website where questions are asked as to whether I can do this or can't do that)-- which makes people into zombies, following rules that often make no sense, that are ludicrous, but must be followed. Why? Oh, because Allah Knows Best. Q.E.D. That is all ye know on earth, and all ye need to know.

The equally extraordinary belief that the Qur'an contains everything, all of science, all of knowledge, absolutely everything, if only we have the wit or understanding to detect it. If there is a surer way to stunt the mental growth of hundreds of millions, I can't imagine what it might be.

Shall I go on? No, it's too depressinig and too boring. Those of us who are not Muslims should thank god we were not -- for we might well have been -- born into Islam. It is no great achievement to have avoided Islam by not being born a Muslim. It is a great achievement, a moral and intellectual achievement, apparently, given how fearsome the consequences, to be born into Islam and then to reject it.

It is a negative achievement, an astounding feat of mental self-immolastion, to be born non-Muslim and then to actualay wish to become a Muslim. There are those on their Spiritual Search, who simply ran out of places to look, or decided to stop at the next inn, the one with Arabic script and the hubble-bubble pipe, and the calligraphy on the green-colored walls.

That's enough for now. Everyone can pitch in.

I can think of a few things we have lost because of muslims:

Peace of mind and confidence that we are safe in our own country.

A populace of united citizens comprised of various religions, not sectarian special-interest groups, i.e. "muslim Americans."

The ability to travel by plane without being subjected to annoying searches, long lines, and having common, ordinary possessions confiscated in the name of "air safety."

The right to enjoy national shrines and monuments without the same scrutiny found in airports.

The knowledge that present and future immigrants will come from similar cultures and assimilate smoothly into our society in order to maintain and sustain our unique and free way of life.

The ability to board a bus, plane, train, subway or ship without a nagging fear of an Islamic terrorist attack on mass transportation.

Confidence that our children will be taught true and accurate versions of history instead of the revisionist, politically correct propaganda that is being taught today.

5. Freedom of speech, individual rights rather than "group rights"

6. Western cultural symbols and traditions galore: Christmas, Easter, the cross of St. George, traditional fairy tales, piggy banks, Winnie-the-Pooh, literature such as Dante's Inferno, Shakespeare (he was a Muslim, you know!)artworks (on-going) -- the attack on our artworks will continue for decades, until the Muslims eventually feel confident enough to go after the biggies of Western culture: The Sistine Chapel, the Last Supper, Michaelangelo's David, the Mona Lisa, Winged Victory, etc. All will burn if the Muslims get their way. And to people who scoff -- Remember what happened to the Byzantine mosaics in the Haggia Sophia -- plastered over and covered up with writings from the Koran. The exquisite ancient Hindu temples that were destroyed, their broken tiles used to create mosques.

Islam will take as much of our culture as we let it. Everything, in short.

I'll give you a simple, personal one.

When I migrated to Canada I could cross the border into the US with just my residence papers.

After 20 muslims flew airplanes into commercial buildings in New York, I no longer have this privilige. I now have to apply for a visa, which will cost me any my family in the region of 800$.

All this is directly a fallout of Islamic behaviour.

Hear hear.

Islam's taken quite a bit from a lot of people so far - religious expression even in majority non-muslim nations, security, human rights.

After all, islam means "submission", or "slavery", or "subjection". It's no surprise that human rights are inimical to it. Why would anything outside of islam matter to islam? As Ia himself says, Allah and islam is the only thing that matters to him.

Prophet Geoff
BBUH

right kt- they gave with one hand centuries ago (and how much of it was already developed by the Greeks and others?), and today are taking by the fist-full.

We our losing our FREEDOM b/c of Islam. Americans will have to make a choice of whether they will protect freedom or Islam. One cannot protect both in a democracy, which is what Western governments are trying to do right now with no success. Protecting Islam means destroying freedoms. Protecting Freedom means destroying Islam

The cost of Islam, merely measured in monetary terms, to Americans (I will only weigh in from the American perspective. European, African, Asian cost can be treated by others, there is just too much to count), in recent history only (let's forget about the oil embargo of the '70s, which certainly qualifies as a jihadist attack against Infidel powers, part of the lesser jihad against the Israel): hundreds of billions of American tax dollars (Homeland Security, etc.), and, in the private sector, security costs, insurace, lost profits in a whole array of companies in the crosshairs of the Jihad, like the airlines. The overall toll on the American economy probably runs over 1 trillion dollars since 9/11, if we include the cost of 9/11 (rebuilding the World Trade Center et alia) and the idiotic attempt at 'reconstruction' in Iraq.

And, of course, many of the above costs are recurrent, so the meter just keeps running.

And against the background of this ever growing landscape of human and cultural carnage and monetary damage, we should pose the contrasting question: how has Islam benefitted the United States? What contributions has Islam, as an ideology, made to the United States? How can the Qur'an, Sunnah, the examples of the prophet Mohammad help America, perhaps give American lawmakers ideas to improve the judicial system, our educational system, our institutions?

How can Islam make life better for America?

Islam does indeed offer an alternative: the end of American life, American institutions, the principles of the Constitution; Islam as an ideology utterly contradicts the principles of freedom of conscience, the separation of Church and State, freedom of speech, political and moral equality irrespective of race, gender or religious beliefs.

Islam as an ideology is inherently, by its very nature, at war with the United States and what it stands for, its institutions, it principles, its laws. And, one minor symptom of that war is the cost of hundreds of billions of dollars, at the very least, since 9/11, to American taxpayers, companies, and floks like me. I say minor symptom, because, in my opinion, the cultural and human costs of Islam, the dead, the suffering, the broken, the lost ideas, the diminishment and destruction of higher culture, education, human striving, human potential, in a word, civilization, should count more among the damages, or should we say, the wasteland, the wake of Islam.

KT--That's all islamic propaganda. The Islamic civilization didn't develop much. They are taking credit for things the Persians, Greeks and Indians developed. The nomadic warrior Muslims learned about these things after invading these civilizations. They were just the middle man who just transported this knowledge from the East to the West.

To be fair & balanced as KT encourages us to be, here is a list of good contributions from Islam and muslims in the US:

1. Some pretty good Middle Eastern restaurants complete with belly dancers.

2. Hookahs!!!!

3. nice rugs

4. Fast taxi drivers

By 450 AD in the Gupta dynasty on the Indian subcontinent the system of decimal numbers used today had been in commercial use. Also the theory of planetary motion had already been postulated by the Guptan scientists, although the theory couldn't be proven until many centuries later.

Even earlier, as found in the ruins of patrician homes in Rome, indoor plumbing, flush toilets and sewage systems were known, as was food lockers for the storage of frozen food.

The Stone Buddhas of Bamian

After point-blank artillery and tank fire gouged holes in the statues but left them essentially intact, the Taliban planted a row of explosives at the feet of the taller Buddha, the 175-foot statue known as Solsol, which means "year after year." The explosions merely blew off part of the statue's feet, residents said, but they destroyed the adobe-and-wood Fatha mosque at the base of the sandstone cliff from which the Buddha was hewn.
Realizing that more expertise was needed, the Taliban summoned two Pakistani and two Arab explosives experts who residents say were provided by Osama bin Laden's al-Qaida network. It was then that Hazaras, the Shiite Muslim residents of the region, who were killed and persecuted under the Taliban's Sunni Muslim rule, were forced to suspend themselves from the cliffs to carve out cavities for explosives.

http://www.detnews.com/2002/nation/0203/21/a08-445913.htm

btw..kerry is on hannity and colmes tonight..fur may fly..

KingTolerance

450 AD is quite a long time before the world was "blessed" with the appearance of Mo bin Abdullah.

Earlier on DW.

ia786:

Okay, I've got some time on my hands, please tell me. How much things have we lost because of Islam.

In response:

"1. Equality of man before God.

Is a No. 2 really necessary?"

Huh??? Equality of man before God???

Yes, No. 2 is necessary!!! infact I expect a very, very large list if you expect me to believe the West must expel all those that practise the religion of Islam (even those that practice it peacefully).

____________________________________________________

"The Library at Alexandria."

Wow, that’s interesting. Did that library have a particular book that you needed for an assignment? What a shame.

Hey, mate, you are living in the stone age. We could go tit-for-tat for ages, it doesn't mean anything, I could give a list of what 'Christians' have done to Muslims, it doesn’t mean a thing. Let me ask you again,

How much things have you lost because of Islam?

__________________________________________________

"Haggia Sophia in Constantinople."

.........zzzzzzzzzz

__________________________________________________

"Air travel without degrading security procedures."

I think all people face these 'degrading' security procedures. Hey, I believe the threat of Islamic extremism is exaggerated, yet I am willing to put up with these 'degrading' procedures, how come you can't. You believe there’s a threat, right?

How many Muslims travel from A to B without hurting a soul? I have been using buses, trains and planes all my life, I have also attended Mosque all my life, I am yet to feel the urge to blow them up (buses, trains). You can't blame that on Islam. As we know, the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful, yet they read the same Quran as the fanatics.

Grow up.

__________________________________________________

Acutally ia786. There were copies of the New Testament at the Library at Alexandria. So tell me, in your tit-for-tat way, where exactly did Christians burn copies of the koran?

Perhaps, IA, "Equality of man before God" is a tad too King James-ish for you. It does not suggest that man is equal to God, but that all men are created equal by God, a concept apparently alien to the Koran. The closest I can find in the Koran is that people of the book are to be protected only if subdued and recognize the superiority of the Muslim master. Get out of hand (cause mischief in the land) and suffer the consequences. To me this sounds like a benign form of slavery that existed in the antebellum south of the US. Many slave owners were actually quite kind and generous to their "properties" unless "they done and get all uppity."

No matter how kind, generous or freely a slave may have been treated, he was still a slave deemed as a second class citizen without the rights confered to the class of the masters. The teaching of the Koran that the rights of people, and even their right to live, is to be determined solely by their submission and acknowledgement that Mohammed is a prophet of God is antithetical to the very concept of inalienable rights conferred to us by the God.

Help me on this one, show me the equivalent in the Koran to the verse from Leviticus ( I will not take the time to get the actual cite) that commands the stranger (a non-Jew) amongst us (the Jews) be treated as an equal as a reminder of the slavery in Egypt.

Hugh, reading your posts is usually a very tedious task, usually the same thing about how the West has to stick up for Israel, about land of war, land of peace, and how Muslims always feel the need to subdue 'Kafirs', very textbook and unrealistic, I will respond to your post though since you took the time and effort to write it out.

___________________________________________________

Okay, you began with the usual (trains, monitoring calls blah blah), it is clear you blame this all on Islam. It all comes down to this, the vast majority of Muslims practice Islam peacefully, the overwhelming majority of Muslims worldwide have never killed, tortured or beheaded anyone. Do you agree with this?

Do you accept that the religion of Islam can be practised peacefully?

Now I have been to Mosque all my life, I read the same Quran as those that call for murder and other prohibited acts, I read the same books of hadith.
Yet I have yet to commit any crime or any terrorist attack. What is the problem here, the few that commit terroridt attacks are the true Muslims? Well we are told that Muslims must stick to the majority, the Ahlus-Sunnah.

So what’s happening here, how can you possibly blame all these things on Islam? It just doesn't make any sense. None at all.

Instead of trying to isolate the fanatics you wish to attack ALL Muslims. You know this and I know it, you know what I'm saying yet your hatred of the man, Muhammad (saws) is that deep you are seething with hatred and jealousy.

You don't care about the sanctity of life, you couldn't give a damn. You put your own evil desires before everything. This website seems to be a tool to simply use the acts of terrorists to undermine the whole religion of Islam, why?

An attempt to stop the increase in Westerners (particularly women) accepting Islam.

An attempt to stop Muslim learning and benefiting from the West.

An attempt to destroy the vision of an independent Palestinian state.

It all comes down to that, this is all beating around the bush, isn't it?

__________________________________________________

"Freedom to travel over much of the world"

Yeh right! what a load of rubbish.

My family went to Pakistan for a bit this summer, they met many American tourists there. They were treated with respect and dignity. I'm pretty sure they will come back with their heads still in place.

In Europe I have seen American tourists, In Venice I casually chatted to an American, he even gave me his camera so I could take a picture of him. I never once felt the need to murder him and run away with his camera.

__________________________________________________

"Freedom to think -- how many of those born into Islam, over the last 1200 years, might have, but for Islam, made some kind of mark on the world, something in art, science, moral philosophy."

I am a Muslim, I have freedom to think. I have the opportunity to create music, art, poetry. Islam gives me the drive for this.

Please tell me why I can’t do this.

I've heard Rumi is the best selling poet in the US, can you appreciate the beauty of 'Islamic' Art. Can you appreciate the buildings throughout the 'Islamic World'.

Have you ever read books on Sufism and philosophy. You are not in touch with reality, the West is dead spiritually, it is Islam that is filling the void.

Oh yeh, and watch 'What the Ancients did for us - the Islamic World' Great documentary.

I don't think this has effected your life in anyway so I don't think this counts, that is unless you really desire the Islamic World giving you things that could increase the happiness in your life (^_^) (do you like Pakistani food?)

__________________________________________________

"Freedom of conscience -- the right, which took some time to develop in the West, but is permanently forbidden in Islam, to believe or not believe whatever you wish."

Hasn't affected you in anyway.

Next.

________________________________________________

"The indifference, or even hostility, toward their own pre-Islamic past that all those falling under Islam, forced to convert eit....."

Hasn't affected you in anyway.

Next.

_________________________________________________

"The extraordinary Total Regulation of Life, from what you eat, and what you wear, to exactly how you wash (shall I give some of the embarrassing details, about the odd number of stones, and so on, or would you prefer that I spared all of us that sort of thing -- just go to any Muslim website where questions are asked as to whether I can do this or can't do that)-- which makes people into zombies, following rules that often make no sense, that are ludicrous, but must be followed. Why? Oh, because Allah Knows Best. Q.E.D. That is all ye know on earth, and all ye need to know."

Hasn't affected you in anyway.

Next.

Oh yeh, again, its none of your business. If I wish to have beard and use a miswak because it is the Sunnah, its none of your business. I'm sure all Western citizens have the right to practise their religion freely.

Hugh, I am not embarrassed of my religion. The Quran is here as is the hadith, it can be read by anyone from East to West. I am proud of my religion. I don't need to hide anything.

__________________________________________________

"The equally extraordinary belief that the Qur'an contains everything, all of science, all of knowledge, absolutely everything, if only we have the wit or understanding to detect it. If there is a surer way to stunt the mental growth of hundreds of millions, I can't imagine what it might be."

Hasn't affected you in anyway.

Next.

__________________________________________________

"Shall I go on? No, it's too depressinig and too boring."

I actually found it amusing, if you can, please continue.

I have the opportunity to leave Islam right now, yet I choose to believe. This has no negative consequence for me or those in my community. On the contrary, Islam teaches me to look out for everyone, be a good, honest and productive member of society.

__________________________________________________

"It is a negative achievement, an astounding feat of mental self-immolastion, to be born non-Muslim and then to actualay wish to become a Muslim."

You say it is negative because you don't like Muhammad and Islam. One’s spiritual journey has nothing to do with you. You fail to realise that Islam can cause humans to do good things. This is something I doubt you are willing to admit.

_________________________________________________

"That's enough for now. Everyone can pitch in."

Next.

"Peace of mind and confidence that we are safe in our own country."

Your mind is playing tricks on you, stop watching the news (propaganda) and you will be fine. I can guarantee you that. Bombs don't discriminate between people of different faiths, Bombs kill Muslims too!

____________________________________________________

"The ability to travel by plane without being subjected to annoying searches, long lines, and having common, ordinary possessions confiscated in the name of "air safety."

So do you believe there is a threat posed by fanatics. Well Muslims are also have to wait in long lines (ppppfffff) and have to put up with annoying searches.

__________________________________________________

"The right to enjoy national shrines and monuments without the same scrutiny found in airports."

You need to take it eazy, Suzy!!!

You blame that on Islam? How is anyone supposed to take you seriously when you say silly things like that.

__________________________________________________

"The knowledge that present and future immigrants will come from similar cultures and assimilate smoothly into our society in order to maintain and sustain our unique and free way of life."

Are you referring to Mexicans?

__________________________________________________

"The ability to board a bus, plane, train, subway or ship without a nagging fear of an Islamic terrorist attack on mass transportation."

You are paranoid. I board a bus with no fear, I put my trust in God at all times. Fear not Suzy, for God is Great.

You cannot blame a whole religion for what a few fanatics do.

__________________________________________________

"Confidence that our children will be taught true and accurate versions of history instead of the revisionist, politically correct propaganda that is being taught today."

Islam is to blame for that? Come on, ha ha ha

__________________________________________________

"5. Freedom of speech, individual rights rather than "group rights"

Freedom to say that Muslims must be deported, yeh, not being allowed to say that is very sad.

Well Suzan, have you listened to those Christian fanatics you have in your country?

They say the funniest things!

____________________________________________________

"6. Western cultural symbols and traditions galore: Christmas, Easter, the cross of St. George, traditional fairy tales, piggy banks, Winnie-the-Pooh, literature such as Dante's Inferno, Shakespeare (he was a Muslim, you know!)artworks (on-going) -- the attack on our artworks will continue for decades, until the Muslims eventually feel confident enough to go after the biggies of Western culture: The Sistine Chapel, the Last Supper, Michaelangelo's David, the Mona Lisa, Winged Victory, etc. All will burn if the Muslims get their way. And to people who scoff -- Remember what happened to the Byzantine mosaics in the Haggia Sophia -- plastered over and covered up with writings from the Koran. The exquisite ancient Hindu temples that were destroyed, their broken tiles used to create mosques.

Islam will take as much of our culture as we let it. Everything, in short. "

So Islam has effected these events for you?

Is Christmas going to banned???

Silly. I am a Muslim and I can say I like Christmas and Easter. I was brought up singing Christian hymns, I acted in Christmas plays, I would do it again if I had the chance. You need to open your mind and relax.

Piggie banks, you blame this on Islam, come on.

Winnie the Pooh, what about him, I used to watch him when I was young, is this against my religion?

I appreciate Western Art, I love western Art. I have studied art and have a talent, it runs in the family. Please tell how Islam will destroy all this, your claims are just ridiculous.

I love Shakespeare, especially Macbeth!!!

__________________________________________________

"Islam will take as much of our culture as we let it. Everything, in short. ""

Nope. This is all poppycock.

Nonsense. Susan have you been taking silly pills again?

"I'll give you a simple, personal one.

When I migrated to Canada I could cross the border into the US with just my residence papers.

After 20 muslims flew airplanes into commercial buildings in New York, I no longer have this privilige. I now have to apply for a visa, which will cost me any my family in the region of 800$.

All this is directly a fallout of Islamic behaviour."

____________________________________________________

I'm sorry you have to pay that much.

You seem to forget that you can't blame all Muslims for the actions of a few. I have personal stories too however I don't discuss personal things here, we had Nazi thugs try to attack Asians in England.

Do you know what that is like?

Yawn.

KT you shameless hussy.

You got mail back at the thread

(you know which one)

I see you there, chuckling, cursing & dribbling to yourself as your eyes roll, but still I feel totally underwhelmed by your responses.

Please attempt to form a coherent response.

Either that or I will assume I hit the nail on the head with points (A:) through to (C:) with regards to your character.

Mmmmkay? Alright then.

(Maybe the local weather could buy you some thinking time again?)

Salutations
Albion

Oh c’mon now ! please do not blame Islam for all these awful, although quite true, things.

Islam cannot stop devastation of the rest of the world anymore than a sewer rat can refrain from its sordid sewer routines. Islam is only doing what its genetic code inherited from its Super Rat – Muhammad 1400 years ago compels it to do.

As long as the rat is dependably contained in the sewer its habits may be a subject of scientific investigation, or morbid fascination, but nothing an average person reflects on for too long.

Who are really to blame for the appalling deterioration of our lives’ quality caused by the Islamic metastasis in the West are the perfidious, sick minded bastards, or our intellectual and ruling elites, who smashed the walls of the sewer of Islam and let its sick contents burst freely all over our beautiful world.

So ladies and gentlemen, please stop bitching about the rats and think constructively how to send them back to their native grounds, rebuild the walls of the sewer and bring to justice the quislings who maliciously had destroyed them.

And then let’s have fun watching them hang!

I think it is quite clear, the people here are Islamophobes.

"So ladies and gentlemen, please stop bitching about the rats and think constructively how to send them back to their native grounds, rebuild the walls of the sewer and bring to justice the quislings who maliciously had destroyed them.

And then let’s have fun watching them hang!"

So why don't you go to Iraq and kill some of these rats.

You 'bitch' alot but aren't willing to walk the talk. DOn't you have any balls. Theirs a party going in Iraq, why don't you join in?

Islam, the belief system, the ideology, is a necessary condition for all the aforementioned 'costs'; this is self evident. If there were no 'Islam', no Qur'an, no Sunnah, no Mohammad as moral example, these 'costs' from the brutality, the mass murder, to the threat to free expression, education, gender equality, would not exist; and the global jihad pursued by mujahedin, who are now on the verge of nuclear capability, would not exist.

And, given that jihadist violence, wars of Islamic expansion, the persecution of non-Muslims, the oppression of Infidels, are motivated directly from core Islamic doctrines, and, given that such violence, wars, persecutions, oppression have existed from the beginning of Islam 1350 years ago, it is also evident that the existence of Islam, the belief system, is a sufficient condition for the aforementioned 'costs' to all of us.

Islam, its existence, is a necessary and sufficient condition for the economic and cultural wasteland that we call 'terrorism', i.e. Islamic jihad, since the global jihad would not exist if Islam did not exist, and jihad, i.e. violent, oppressive war to subjugate non-Muslims, is a natural and inevitable result of Islamic doctrines.

ia786

Please don't mistake your ramblings here for an intelligent response. Shouting "rubbish!" and "you're so stupid" at us isn't impressing anyone, and it just makes you look like an incoherent fool.

This website is full of examples every day of how Islam is destroying our Western culture, bit by bit, and taking away our rights as free people -- rights that our ancestors fought, bled and died for.

None of your adolescent ramblings here can change that fact.

Susan, be of good cheer!

I asked for something simple, no proper answer. I asked how the people here how many things we have lost because of Islam, in response I was given a load of waffle.

Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Just one big joke.

Just like the time I asked for proof that terrorism was encouraged in Islam. Nothing.

Anytime you have anything, bring it, I am here.

You can believe what you want, that is your burden. I just have to laugh at your bigotry and intolerance, and you wonder why no one takes you seriously.

This is a site for religious extremists, bigots and Islamophobes.

Oh people! Lend me your ears (eyes)!!!

Tell me do you accept that Muslims can practise Islam peacefully?

Do you believe Muslims should have equal rights?

People, please answer these little Q’s of mine.

Quite a few people have lost their minds because of Islam.

ia786,

You wrote:
"I have the opportunity to leave Islam right now, yet I choose to believe. This has no negative consequence for me or those in my community. On the contrary, Islam teaches me to look out for everyone, be a good, honest and productive member of society."

You have the opportunity to leave Islam, you say? Tell me ia786, how would your family react if you jettisoned Islam altogether and became an athiest, or a Hindu, or a Christian, or a Buddhist? How would they react? How would your Muslim friends react? Would you get harrassed by either of them? Would you get death threats? It's common knowledge by now that the punishment for apostasy from Islam is death. However, like Hugh mentioned above, that doesn't mean that the death sentence is carried out in every Muslim country by the state or the Muslims themselves. But it would make your life more difficult wouldn't it, atleast among your friends and family? How many Muslims do you know that have left Islam altogether, that are either athiests or converted to another religion? Have they experienced any difficultly among their former co-religionists? And if they have, what makes you think you wouldn't? Also, would you be able to visit your homeland, the place where your parents and grandparents came from, with your new found religion (or no religion) and be expected to be treated fairly, as you are now? And if not, why?

Ia786, if a religion is so totalitarian in its outlook, in regards to stifling any criticism of your prophet and his actions which in turn DICTATE how you should live your life, then why believe in it? How embarassing is it to know that your prophet, your figurehead, the man that dictates the proper way to live your life, had slept with a 9 year old girl, killed poets for mocking him, owned slaves, was frightened of eclipses, and committed genocide against Jews? You say you are not embarrassed of your religion, but perhaps you should be.

And before you go into a litany of "Christian" crimes, mind you that I am not a Christian, so that will not affect me one bit. How pathetic is it that in this day in age that we can't critique Islam, on its own merits, without mentioning some of the very worst crimes committed by Christians and "the West", it's only a testament to the weak case of Islam. Yes, both Christians and Westerns have done some ghastly stuff, but that doesn't let Islam off the hook, and it never will.

ia786,

All you have to do is read this site and the articles printed here to see how Islam is taking things we value away from us, from piggy banks to national symbols to museum artworks.

I'm not interested in spending hours hunting down links that you won't read. Do it yourself, lazy bones.

Do you believe Muslims should have equal rights?

Yes, but they shouldn't have special rights that other people don't have, which is what they want, because Islam is a supremacist faith that is predicated on other people being "inferior."

Tell me do you accept that Muslims can practise Islam peacefully?

Whether they are "peaceful" or not is not my ultimate concern, but whether they can live with other people as legal equals and not try to enforce their bigoted Jim Crow-like sharia law and dhimmitude on us.

Most of the people who believed in Jim Crow were peaceful, you know.

IA, I am still awaiting your reply:

Perhaps, IA, "Equality of man before God" is a tad too King James-ish for you. It does not suggest that man is equal to God, but that all men are created equal by God, a concept apparently alien to the Koran. The closest I can find in the Koran is that people of the book are to be protected only if subdued and recognize the superiority of the Muslim master. Get out of hand (cause mischief in the land) and suffer the consequences. To me this sounds like a benign form of slavery that existed in the antebellum south of the US. Many slave owners were actually quite kind and generous to their "properties" unless "they done and get all uppity."

No matter how kind, generous or freely a slave may have been treated, he was still a slave deemed as a second class citizen without the rights confered to the class of the masters. The teaching of the Koran that the rights of people, and even their right to live, is to be determined solely by their submission and acknowledgement that Mohammed is a prophet of God is antithetical to the very concept of inalienable rights conferred to us by the God.

Help me on this one, show me the equivalent in the Koran to the verse from Leviticus ( I will not take the time to get the actual cite) that commands the stranger (a non-Jew) amongst us (the Jews) be treated as an equal as a reminder of the slavery in Egypt.

IA234:

"So why don't you go to Iraq and kill some of these rats.
You 'bitch' alot but aren't willing to walk the talk. DOn't you have any balls. Theirs a party going in Iraq, why don't you join in?

IA234, you pathetic ninny,

Where did I say a single word about "killing the rats"?
I don't want to kill anyone, who do you think I am? - a mohammedan?

What I said is that the rats must be sent back to their natural habitat - the Sewer of Islam, so we all can live happily ever after - both the moslems and the rest of us.
Gosh, can't you utter a single sentence without lying?

Oh, I forgot you are a moslem...Sorry.

And BTW, how do you know I haven't been to Iraq?

People, I will reply to the your posts

ia786,

Why don't Nazi thugs in the UK attack Hinduism? Surely this other Asian religion deserves a little hostility? Where has all the Hinduphobia gone? I don't hear the worshipers of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva complaining the bigotry of the cross worshipers. Lakshmi doesn't get dissed when Diwali fireworks terrify the good Christian cats of this nation.

"All you have to do is read this site and the articles printed here to see how Islam is taking things we value away from us, from piggy banks to national symbols to museum artworks."

I do read the stuff on this site. Islam isn't taking anything, its stupid politicians and people with big mouths.

____________________________________________________

"Yes, but they shouldn't have special rights that other people don't have, which is what they want, because Islam is a supremacist faith that is predicated on other people being "inferior.""

I agree with you 100%

____________________________________________________

"Whether they are "peaceful" or not is not my ultimate concern, but whether they can live with other people as legal equals and not try to enforce their bigoted Jim Crow-like sharia law and dhimmitude on us."

I'm talking about practising Islam, can one practise Islam and still be peaceful?

By the way, thanks for your response.

"Why don't Nazi thugs in the UK attack Hinduism? Surely this other Asian religion deserves a little hostility? Where has all the Hinduphobia gone? I don't hear the worshipers of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva complaining the bigotry of the cross worshipers. Lakshmi doesn't get dissed when Diwali fireworks terrify the good Christian cats of this nation."

You're not from the UK are you.

After 7/7, I remember hearing about a Gurdwara (Sikh) being attacked. You should know in the streets, it can be hard to tell who a Muslim is since Islam is a religion that knows no race. Its normally just ‘Paki bashing’, and yes, Sikhs and Hindus do get attacked too.

I sure as hell hope you aren't giving these Nazi thugs support. They attack anyone with a non-white face.

a minor addition to what I just sent:

IA234:

"So why don't you go to Iraq and kill some of these rats.
You 'bitch' alot but aren't willing to walk the talk. DOn't you have any balls. Theirs a party going in Iraq, why don't you join in?

IA234, you pathetic ninny,

Where did I say a single word about "killing the rats"?
I don't want to kill anyone, who do you think I am? - a mohammedan?

What I said is that the rats must be sent back to their natural habitat - the Sewer of Islam, so we all can live happily ever after - both the moslems and the rest of us.

It was the quislings I wanted to see dangling - not the rats, and you know it!

Gosh, can't you utter a single sentence without lying?

Oh, I forgot you are a moslem...Sorry.

And BTW, how do you know I haven't been to Iraq?

"Where did I say a single word about "killing the rats"?
I don't want to kill anyone, who do you think I am? - a mohammedan?"

Oh so you would like to sit behind your computer and watch us rats 'hang'.

____________________________________________________

"What I said is that the rats must be sent back to their natural habitat - the Sewer of Islam,"

Well I was born and raised in the ol'UK. This is my home. Islam, as is so frequently stated here, is not limited to a certain race.

What about White British Muslims, do they get to stay? Hey, that’s not fair, you're being racist!!!

The UK is my natural habitat.

By the way are you American? If that is the case, you have no right to say I should be sent back anywhere.

__________________________________________________

"And BTW, how do you know I haven't been to Iraq?"

Well don't take this the wrong way, you sound like a pussy.

ia234

The UK is my natural habitat.

What???!!!

Have you ever asked the UK how does it feel about being your "natural habitat"?

You mendacious creep, if UK had its way it would have vomited you back to where you belong - the Sewer of Islam!

Lisa!!!

"Perhaps, IA, "Equality of man before God" is a tad too King James-ish for you. It does not suggest that man is equal to God, but that all men are created equal by God, a concept apparently alien to the Koran. The closest I can find in the Koran is that people of the book are to be protected only if subdued and recognize the superiority of the Muslim master."

God has created all Mankind equal. We are all descendents of Adam, we all come from the same father and mother.

Heaven is the home of Mankind, that is where we all came from however we are on Earth for just a while, this is the Test! Yeah!!!!

What you are talking about is something completely different. We believe that those in the time of the Prophets from Adam till Muhammad were the believers, those that believed in God, his Prophets, the last day and did righteous deeds and shunned evil, they will be in heaven.

God is the Best of Judges!!!

[19:58] "These are some of the prophets whom God blessed. They were chosen from among the descendants of Adam, and the descendants of those whom we carried with Noah, and the descendants of Abraham and Israel, and from among those whom we guided and selected. When the revelations of the Most Gracious are recited to them, they fall prostrate, weeping."

[16:123]"Then we inspired you (O Muhammad) to follow the religion of Abraham, monotheism; never was he an idol-worshiper."

[2:62]"Those who believe (in the Qur'an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve."

__________________________________________________

"Help me on this one, show me the equivalent in the Koran to the verse from Leviticus ( I will not take the time to get the actual cite) that commands the stranger (a non-Jew) amongst us (the Jews) be treated as an equal as a reminder of the slavery in Egypt."

Please post the quote so I can look at it.

I am no expert of the Quran, however I will do what you have asked of me and I will also get hadith for you.

Let me add that I have read many things from the Talmud. Verses that suggest a Jew can even rob from a Non-Jew and get away with it.

Here are some verses:

Sanhedrin 57a . A Jew need not pay a gentile ("Cuthean") the wages owed him for work.

Hitting a Jew is the same as hitting God

Sanhedrin 58b. If a heathen (gentile) hits a Jew, the gentile must be killed.

Penalty for Disobeying Rabbis

Erubin 21b. Whosoever disobeys the rabbis deserves death and will be punished by being boiled in hot excrement in hell.

Jews May Rob and Kill Non-Jews

Sanhedrin 57a . When a Jew murders a gentile ("Cuthean"), there will be no death penalty. What a Jew steals from a gentile he may keep.

Non-Jewish Children are Sub-Human

Yebamoth 98a. All gentile children are animals.

Abodah Zarah 36b. Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth.
__________________________________________________

Okay a something for you. Please show me in the Quran or hadith anywhere, once where Muslims are allowed murder, cheat and steal.

__________________________________________________

By the way this discussion has nothing to do with what is being discussed in this thread, but you and I can continue!

ia786,

Well I am from the UK. In fact I have lived my entire life in a very diverse part of London. I went to a high school that was 20 percent Asian in 1978 (probably before you were born).

"After 7/7, I remember hearing about a Gurdwara (Sikh) being attacked. You should know in the streets, it can be hard to tell who a Muslim is since Islam is a religion that knows no race. Its normally just ‘Paki bashing’, and yes, Sikhs and Hindus do get attacked too."

Ummmm..... The Sikh guy was attacked because he was an Asian. I think you would agree that the Sikh and Hindu religions are almost never attacked by the same people who relentlessly attack Islam!? The bigots cannot even be bothered to ridicule those wacky Hindu gods. Something doesn't add up here. Maybe they attack Islam because, unlike other equally "Paki" religions such as Hinduism, it is a threat to their way of life.

"The UK is my natural habitat.

What???!!!

Have you ever asked the UK how does it feel about being your "natural habitat"?

You mendacious creep, if UK had its way it would have vomited you back to where you belong - the Sewer of Islam!"

Who are you, who do you speak for? Tell me?

You don't even know who I am and what my family has done for the local community. (Are you American?)

You know nothing, I have been raised here and the love that British people have given me is something I will never forget.

I owe this country alot and I swear to God I will do all I can to help this country.

1630r, read my post again. After that, try thinking.

Your post doesn't mean anything. Try making a point.

"Why don't Nazi thugs in the UK attack Hinduism? Surely this other Asian religion deserves a little hostility? Where has all the Hinduphobia gone? I don't hear the worshipers of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva complaining the bigotry of the cross worshipers. Lakshmi doesn't get dissed when Diwali fireworks terrify the good Christian cats of this nation."

Just thought i'd dig this out.

These Nazis are using the current World situation for their own benefit. If there were no Muslims in England, do you think these guys would quit?

No it would then be the Sikhs, then the Hindus etc.

I owe this country alot and I swear to God I will do all I can to help this country.

"to God"? Oh you mean to allah...Well, that makes some difference...

How about "helping this country" by removing your foul presence from its premises?

ia768

Dawa by the sword or dawa by the pen,
doesn't make the hen lay any more eggs,
when those eggs break, the shell is cast aside,
and the kernel, the yolk, the nut
is still the same. A rose by any other name
is still a rose, garbage by any other name
still stinks, me thinks you should read
the hadiths, maybe bukhari or muslim . . .
then bring us back tidbits to enjoy,
let us feast on the pieces of the pattern,
that's a good boy.

"How about "helping this country" by removing your foul presence from its premises?"

'its premises', I knew it.
I don't ever take orders from a redneck.

You mind your own business yank, you have no business telling other people what to do. Did you see those protests before the Iraq war, those Millions from Europe were actually sticking their middle finger up to rednecks like you.

Expect more.

I do what I want, when I want, if it upsets a few rednecks, so be it, the Will of God be Done!!!

____________________________________________________

"ia768

Dawa by the sword or dawa by the pen,
doesn't make the hen lay any more eggs,
when those eggs break, the shell is cast aside,
and the kernel, th.........

......zzzzzzzzzzzzz

Poetess, I think you need lessons. I would recommend the best selling poet in the US, who just happens to be Muslim!!!

Heres a taste:

"Sweetly parading you go my soul of soul, go not without me;
life of your friends, enter not the garden without me.
Sky, revolve not without me; moon, shine not without me;
earth travel not without me, and time, go not without me.
With you this world is joyous, and with you that world is joyous;
in this world dwell not without me, and to that world depart not without me.
Vision, know not without me, and tongue, recite not without
me; glance behold not without me, and soul, go not without me.
The night through the moon's light sees its face white; I am
light, you are my moon, go not to heaven without me.
The thorn is secure from the fire in the shelter of the roses
face: you are the rose, I your thorn; go not into the rose garden without me.
I run in the curve of your mallet when your eye is with me;
even so gaze upon me, drive not without me, go not without me.
When, joy, you are companion of the king, drink not without
me; when, watchman, you go to the kings roof, go not without me.
Alas for him who goes on this road without your sign; since
you, O signless one, are my sign, go not without me.
Alas for him who goes on the road without my knowledge;
you are the knowledge of the road for me; O road-knower, go not without me.
Others call you love, I call you the king of love; O you who are
higher than the imagination of this and that, go not without me."

Aaaahhhhhh!!!!!!

words that obfuscate,
words that weave webs
of pseudo ecstatic states,
words that have no more meaning
than the demeaning of women,
the demeaning of civilizations,
words for
you who cannot hear,
you who cannot see,
you who cannot find
any shed of a rational mind
inside your house of fear.

Holidays, holy days, a time for reverence
and renewing the connection with the spirit,
a time for feasting and remembering . . .
mohammedan,
the wheel turns
and this time,
it grinds fine.

IA786: "I asked for something simple, no proper answer. I asked how the people here how many things we have lost because of Islam."

Two friends in the WTC.

Now, tell me, IA786, that they are nothing as well, if you dare.

Okay a something for you. Please show me in the Quran or hadith anywhere, once where Muslims are allowed murder, cheat and steal.

__________________________________________________

By the way this discussion has nothing to do with what is being discussed in this thread, but you and I can continue!

Posted by: ia786 at October 26, 2005 08:30 PM

WELL YOU KNOW BUT I WILL SHOW YOU ANYWAY SO OTHERS CAN SEE THE TRUTH??

Tabari VIII:38 “The Messenger of Allah commanded that all of the Jewish men and boys who had reached puberty should be beheaded. Then the Prophet divided the wealth, wives, and children of the Banu Qurayza Jews among the Muslims.”

OH MY??

Qur’an 5:33 “The punishment for those who wage war against Allah and His Prophet and make mischief in the land, is to murder them, crucify them, or cut off a hand and foot on opposite sides...their doom is dreadful. They will not escape the fire, suffering constantly.”

OH MY??

Qur’an 9:5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, torture them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

OH MY??

Qur’an 8:12 “Your Lord inspired the angels with the message: ‘I will terrorize the unbelievers. Therefore smite them on their necks and every joint and incapacitate them. Strike off their heads and cut off each of their fingers and toes.”

NICK BERG AND OTHERS COME TO MIND??

Tabari VIII:96 “A raiding party led by Zayd set out against Umm in Ramadan. During it, Umm suffered a cruel death. Zyad tied her legs with rope and then tied her between two camels until they split her in two. She was a very old woman. Then they brought Umm’s daughter and Abdallah to the Messenger. Umm’s daughter belonged to Salamah who had captured her. Muhammad asked Salamah for her, and Salamah gave her to him.”

AND THIS IS A RIMDER OF THE HASSIAN WOMAN WHO FOR SO MANY YEARS GAVE AID TO THE POOR IRAQI PEOPLE BUT THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST CUT HER UP??

Qur’an 8:1 “They ask you about the benefits of capturing the spoils of war. Tell them: ‘The benefits belong to Allah and to His Messenger.’”

OH MY THE LOOTING??

Ishaq:327 “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

NOW THAT JUST DON'T SOUND TO GOOD TO ME??

Qur’an 48:19 “He rewarded them with abundant spoils that they will capture. Allah has promised you much booty that you shall take, and He has made this easy for you.”

OH MY STEALING MADE EASY??

Tabari IX:37/Ishaq:596 “Do you hold a grudge against me and are you mentally disturbed because of the worldly things by which I conciliate a people and win them over so that they will embrace Islam and become Muslims?”

THIS WAS NOT ROBIN HOOD??

Tabari IX:38 “In this year, the Messenger sent Amr to collect the zakat tax from Jayfar and Amr, the clans of Julanda and Azd.... He collected the jizyah from the Zoroastrians.”

THAT WOULD BE IRAN BEFORE ISLAMIC TERRORIST TOOK THEM OVER COMPLETLY BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T STAND UP AND FIGHT??
SO NOW THEY LIVE IN MISERY AND SLAVORY WITHOUT JOY??

Tabari IX:75 “He who holds fast to his religion, Judaism or Christianity, is not to be tempted from it. It is incumbent on them to pay the jizyah protection tax. For every adult, male or female, free or slave, one full denarius, or its value in al-ma’afir [fine cloth]. He who pays that to the Messenger has the protection of Allah and His Messenger, and he who holds back from it is the enemy of Allah and His Messenger.”

IN THE USA WE CALLED THIS THE MOB AND WE HAD THE FBI TO BRING THEM DOWN AND WHEN THE PEOPLE STOOD UP AND FOUGHT BACK THEY WERE ABLE TO THAKE BACK THEIR CITYS FROM THE THUGS!!!

Qur’an 59:6 “What Allah gave as booty to His Messenger He has taken away from them [the Jews]. For this you made no raid. Allah gives His Messenger Lordship over whomsoever He wills. Whatever booty Allah has given to His Messenger and taken away from the [Jewish] people of the townships, belongs to Allah and to His Messenger.... So take what the Messenger assigns to you, and deny yourselves that which he withholds from you.”

CALLED LOOTING??

AS FOR THE JEWISH BOOK YOU READ ONLY SOMEONE WHO HAS NEVER READ A BIBLE WOULD BELIEVE THAT??

False Prophets!
Deuteronomy chapter 13:1-19
Be careful to observe only that which I enjoin you. Neither add to it nor take away from it.
If there appears among you a prophet or dreamer-diviner and he gives you a sign or a portent. Saying let us follow and worship another god whom you have not experienced even if the sign or portent that he he named to come true, do not heed the words of that prophet or that dream-diviner. For the LORD your God is testing you to see whether you really love the LORD your GOD with all your heart and soul.
Follow none but the LORD your GOD and revere none, but Him, Observe His Commandments alone and head only His Orders Worship none but Him and hold fast to Him. As for that prophet or dreamer-diviner he shall be put to Death, for he urged disloyalty to the LORD your GOD- who freed you from the land of Egypt and who Redeemed you from the house of Bondage to make you stray from the path that the LORD your GOD Commanded you to Follow. Thus you will sweep out the Evil from your mist. If your brother, your own mothers son, or your son or daughter, or wife of your bosom, or your closest friend entices you to secret saying “ come let us worship other gods” whom neither you nor your father have experienced. From among the gods of the peoples around you either near to you or distant, anywhere from one end of the earth to the other. Do not assent or give heed to him, show him no pity or compassion, and do not shield him; but take his life let your hand be the first against him to put him to death and the land of the rest of the people there after, stone him to death for he sought to make you stray from the LORD your GOD who brought you out of the Land of Egypt out of the House of Bondage. This all Israel will hear and be afraid and such Evil things will not be done again in your mist, If you hear it said of one of the towns that the LORD your GOD is giving you to dwell in, that some scoundrels from among you have gone and subverted the inhabitants of their town saying “come let us worship other gods” whom you have not experienced. You shall investigate and inquire and interrogate thoroughly. If it is true, the fact is established – that abhorrent thing was perpetrated in your midst, put the inhabitants of the town to the SWORD and put its cattle to the SWORD. DOOM it and all that is in it to destruction. Gather all it spoil into open square and Burn the town and all it’s spoil as a holocaust to the LORD your GOD and it shall remain everlasting ruin never to be rebuilt, Let nothing that has been DOOMED Stick to your hand in order that the LORD may turn from his Blazing Anger and show Compassion and in His Compassion increase you as He Promised your Fathers on Oath, For you will be heeding the LORD your GOD, Obeying all His commandments which I enjoin upon you this day, doing what is right in the sight of the LORD your GOD.

AND WHAT YOU SPEAK YOU HAVE NEVER READ THE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD THE 10 COMMANTS THALL SHALL NOT STEAL, THALL SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITTNESS, THALL SHALL NOT COVENT THY NEIGHBORS GOODS

NOW JUST THOSE 3 TELL US NOT TO STEAL!!!

THESE LAWS ARE FOLLOWED BY JEWS AND CHRISTIANS BOTH!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM WISDOM, SIGHT, STRENGTH, AND COURAGE TO STAND UP AND DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEIVED BY THEM AMEN

PS
We know what you oue the west it is YOUR FREEDOM AND YOUR LIFE!!

SHALL WE GO ON?? THERE ARE MANY MORE??

ia786,

the poetry you quoted, "Sweetly parading..." strikes me as a whole lot of pretentious prattle (falling short of even the always overrated Kahlil Gibran, who presumably developed his style by reading rumi.).

Whereas,

"...the wheel turns
and this time,
it grinds fine."

is far superior, to my kafir taste. (Thank you , poetess.)

But what's this, ia: "Get up," I told my heart, "Give the soul a glass of wine."?

perhaps you shouldn't take that book with you when you go on Haj, eh? Or then again, please do :)

1630r, read my post again. After that, try thinking.

Your post doesn't mean anything. Try making a point.

I understand what you are saying: Some non-Muslim Asians have been assaulted because anti-Mulsim bigots cannot tell a Muslim from a Sikh. They are motivated to assault a Muslim and pick on the first “paki” they find.

My point is: Why aren't people fired up with anti-Hindu bigotry and occasionally mistake a Muslim Asian in the street for a Hindu? Why is there no equivalent of Jihad Watch or LGF for vilifying Hinduism and Hindus?

One argument always put forward in defense of the Religious Hatred bill going through Parliament is: Racists have switched to attacking the religion of Islam because they would be prosecuted under the race laws if they attacked the ethnic groups that most Muslims belong to. But if that is the case, it is very curious that those same racists bigots are not attacking other Asian religions to circumvent the race hatred laws. Asian Muslims are not being beaten up in the street by some irate, but clueless, Hinduphobe. The British are still remarkably indifferent to genuinely peaceful Asian religions.

Islam is simply more of a problem than any other "foreign" religions. And Muslims hide behind anti-racism to avoid this fact.

"IA786: "I asked for something simple, no proper answer. I asked how the people here how many things we have lost because of Islam."

Two friends in the WTC.

Now, tell me, IA786, that they are nothing as well, if you dare."

____________________________________________________

You lost those friends because of Islamic extremism, not Islam.

Many Muslims were killed in the towers in New York, many Muslims were killed on 7/7, my brother could have been killed then.

I am pretty sure that Islamic terrorism, something that this site is supposedly aiming to combat has killed more Muslims that non-Muslims over the last 4 years.

The suffering of an American is not worth more than that of anyone. Everyone is equal. I hope you agree with that, though I know after reading the responses here from certain people about the Pakistani earthquake, that is clearly not the case.

Catherine!!!!

Its the same usual cut an paste job, means nothing.

Those verses have been here for more than 1400 years, yet no case has been brought before Islam. I am here. Bring it.

Tell me, where does the Quran or hadith command me to murder, steal, cheat and loot?

Its the usual, some guy did this to this person for that reason centuries ago. That means nothing, do you understand?

Try again.

____________________________________________________

"AS FOR THE JEWISH BOOK YOU READ ONLY SOMEONE WHO HAS NEVER READ A BIBLE WOULD BELIEVE THAT??"

So you reject the teachings of the Talmud?

__________________________________________________

AND WHAT YOU SPEAK YOU HAVE NEVER READ THE WRITTEN WORD OF GOD THE 10 COMMANTS THALL SHALL NOT STEAL, THALL SHALL NOT BEAR FALSE WITTNESS, THALL SHALL NOT COVENT THY NEIGHBORS GOODS

NOW JUST THOSE 3 TELL US NOT TO STEAL!!!

THESE LAWS ARE FOLLOWED BY JEWS AND CHRISTIANS BOTH!!

__________________________________________________

There’s no need to shout!!!

I have been brought up reading the 'Bible'. I have studied Christianity y for many, many years. I even sat an important exam on it and received an A grade, though this was a few years ago!!!

What Christianity is now, is not what Jesus preached. Its as simple as that. Jesus never said he was God, No Prophet before ever said God had a son. No.

__________________________________________________

Why is it that 'Christians' can't even follow these commandments.

The US admin lied to invade Iraq.

The US has killed thousands of little children.

Donald Rumsfeld met with a brutal dictator (Saddam) happily.

The US armed Saddam Hussein so he could murder innocent people.

The US nuked Japan, something that Jesus, would be pleased with? No!?!?!

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These laws are not followed by Christians and Jews. Jews rightfully reject the son of God story too. They don't worship the same God as you.

Their is one true God, a God with no sons, no partners, nothing like that.

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"We know what you oue the west it is YOUR FREEDOM AND YOUR LIFE!!"

I owe the UK alot, they have given me everything I have now, I know and appreciate that.

However you forget, I know many elders that fought for the British in the World War, they fought against evil across the Whole World.

But what's this, ia: "Get up," I told my heart, "Give the soul a glass of wine."?

Metaphor.....!!!

"My point is: Why aren't people fired up with anti-Hindu bigotry and occasionally mistake a Muslim Asian in the street for a Hindu? Why is there no equivalent of Jihad Watch or LGF for vilifying Hinduism and Hindus?"

Simple, watch the News.

Watch fanatical 'Muslims' across the World.

"Islam is simply more of a problem than any other "foreign" religions. And Muslims hide behind anti-racism to avoid this fact."

Explain....

I am a Muslim yet I have Sikh friends. We get on fine and do the same things, we share the same interests.

I am no problem to anyone, I am not a burden of British society. I don't need special attention or anything like that.

IA234 rants:

I do what I want, when I want, if it upsets a few rednecks, so be it, the Will of God be Done!!!

In other words IA234 claims identity between his own fancy and the Will of God! As you clearly see folks, IA234 has now promoted himself to the status of divinity.

The Will of God is always done and it has nothing to do with your own whims, you little megalomaniac insect!

It clearly has been the Will of God that the West, for its abysmal stupidity and nihilism, be punished with Flood from the Sewer of Islam. But, by the same token, if, one day, the West seals hermetically the Sewer of Islam it will be the Will of God no less.
Or if in the process we should drop a few hundred tons of pig manure on Mecca wouldn’t that be will be the Will of God?
And that in the meantime quite a few dogs in Copenhagen are (discreetly) called Allah by their owners is that not The Will of God?
Well, certainly not the will of Allah!

"Simple, watch the News"

So its the media's fault that Islam is getting a bad press - not the good Muslims who are creating the news.

Mmmkay.

I suppose that daily reporting of Jihad atrocities across the world is "resisting & fighting Islam"?

Mmmkay.

With an attitude like that, your claim to be no problem to anyone in Great Britain is untrue - you are a problem to me.

Mmmkay?

"In other words IA234 claims identity between his own fancy and the Will of God! As you clearly see folks, IA234 has now promoted himself to the status of divinity."

............yeh (sarcasm)

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The Will of God is always done and it has nothing to do with your own whims, you little megalomaniac insect!

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Ahhh, I love it. Aren't we all insects compared to the Lord???

That was well said mate.

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It clearly has been the Will of God that the West, for its abysmal stupidity and nihilism, be punished with Flood from the Sewer of Islam. But, by the same token, if, one day, the West seals hermetically the Sewer of Islam it will be the Will of God no less.
Or if in the process we should drop a few hundred tons of pig manure on Mecca wouldn’t that be will be the Will of God?
And that in the meantime quite a few dogs in Copenhagen are (discreetly) called Allah by their owners is that not The Will of God?
Well, certainly not the will of Allah!"

Everything happens by the Will of God, God is the Knower, the All Powerful, God is Great!!!

The World is under control, everything is under control.

Oh yeh, no one can touch Mekkah, you know why, because God is the protector of Makkah.

"So its the media's fault that Islam is getting a bad press - not the good Muslims who are creating the news."

So you're now trying to put words into my mouth?

"With an attitude like that, your claim to be no problem to anyone in Great Britain is untrue - you are a problem to me."

You don't know my attitude mate. Think about this website and the stuff it posts, now think how a Muslim would feel if he was to come here and see the comments by the people here, calling for the deportations of Muslims, laughing at the Earthquake victims etc,

Prove I am a problem to anyone in Britain. I am no ones burden. I contribute to this country mate.

Do you believe I have the right to live here, in my home country?

IA: "You lost those friends because of Islamic extremism, not Islam."

Islam begat and succors extremism, IA -- Iran, the Muslim party of Pakistan, the countless imams and mullahs who present a smiling face while teaching jihad, as Bakri did. The Palestinians who celebrated the WTC -- smiling women feeding candies to dancing children over the suffering of others.. Even so-called "moderate" Muslims only give lip service to opposing jihad and extremism.

IA: "Many Muslims were killed in the towers in New York, many Muslims were killed on 7/7, my brother could have been killed then."

Could and was are two different things, IA. As for the WTC, name a couple -- I keep hearing about "many" Muslims killed in the towers, but no one ever seems to find a grieving family to interview... funny thing that.

IA: "I am pretty sure that Islamic terrorism, something that this site is supposedly aiming to combat has killed more Muslims that non-Muslims over the last 4 years."

The competence (or lack thereof) of your co-religionists is neither my concern, nor my problem.

IA: "The suffering of an American is not worth more than that of anyone. Everyone is equal. I hope you agree with that, though I know after reading the responses here from certain people about the Pakistani earthquake, that is clearly not the case. "

Judging by the dancing Muslims in Patterson, NJ and Palestine, the suffering of an American is something to be celebrated. Likewise, suffering in America is an event to be punctuated by political sophistry, such as has accompanied the hurricanes. Suffering in Pakistan comes with demands (not requests) for aid. Muslim rulers soft-peddle terrorism, encouraging it externally, seking to distract their people from the hash they have made of their own nations. In the west, Muslims run riot at even the questions that the followers of the "true faith" could be culpable of a crime. They demand multicultural societies submit to their rules, as in the UK and Malaysia and contribute little to their communities, save noisy wake-up calls as they now do in Detroit.

Ahhh, I love it. Aren't we all insects compared to the Lord???

I wrote that you are a megalomaniac insect.
The key word here is "megalomaniac" and indicates comparison to other insects. Certainly not "compared to the Lord".

Where in the world did you get that idea?

"My point is: Why aren't people fired up with anti-Hindu bigotry and occasionally mistake a Muslim Asian in the street for a Hindu? Why is there no equivalent of Jihad Watch or LGF for vilifying Hinduism and Hindus?"

Simple, watch the News.

Watch fanatical 'Muslims' across the World.

Posted by: ia786 at October 27, 2005 08:17 AM

By you implying quite openly that it is the "media's" reporting of terrorist attacks committed in the name of Islam that is giving Muslims a bad name, I do not believe I was putting words into your mouth.

I was just clarifying your post for you.

IA

Instead of coming here & playing the eternally maligned victim, why don't you find some of your brothers who blatantly misunderstand your religion, if as you claim Islam is a religion of peace, tolerance, understanding & mutual respect for all, & re-educate them?

Surely those guys need your time more than us?

Surely they are doing more damage to your religions brand & image in the global market place of spiritual brands than we are?

We are here today because of the actions of devout Muslims.

This site would not exist if it were not for Islamic Fascism.

Your "simple, watch the news" line says it all.

You see the reporting on stories that have an adverse effect on the standing of your beliefs, yet you do not seem to question the acts of violence that led to the news coverage?

Is that an Islamic thing? Not to see the whys & wherefore's? It certainly is not a British trait that I recognise.

Surely, being British yourself, you are not questioning the BBC?

And there they are spending millions in our taxes to start an Arabic Language BBC World Service, making 200 redundant from European posts to offset the costs, as well as scrapping coverage in another 2 dozen or so other languages to cover the cost of their brand spanking new Al BBCeera.

No, you can't mean the BBC is biased against Muslims, that would be ridiculous in the extreme.

Oh yeh, no one can touch Mekkah, you know why, because God is the protector of Makkah.

Posted by: ia786
What if the god you believe in is the wrong one?