UK: Christian group may seek ban on Qur'an

This seems to be a surefire way of preventing religious vilification and hatred laws from passing. Only people with a victim complex advocate such legislation. And they seem to have a "holy book" that would itself be banned under any such law.

Quijybo

Too late now to be careful about what I write. I clicked on the link above, going to letters from July 12-14, and there I saw, having forgotten it as soon as I'd written it, one of my best hard-boiled dective pulp fiction ledes. Oh, if only I'd stayed with it my novel would be done by now and I'd be living in the tropics, hiding, terrified, spooked, and grinning. "She had a heart colder than a bottle of vodka, and her eyes burned like a Koran...." I shoulda bin famous.

Let's hope this "fringe" group does something that forces a court case where the koran has to be brought in as Exhibit A.

How extreme would it be for the media to consider quoting the Koran just once in light of the subject? They won't approach it with tongs. Sura Nine, by itself, proves indisputably the Koran is the most violent religious text of any mainstream faith. Toss in 3.l51 (repeated often in the rest of the Koran) and 8.012. It's like a screenplay for a horror film.

What "fringe fundamentalist group"? They seem completely sensible and unfringy to me. Or are those of us, even the devoutest of atheists among us, who do not regard an organization called Christian Voice as a "fringe" group simply revealing that we are -- this is England we are discussing -- Beyond the Fringe?

I'm in favour of banning hate literature.

The islamic texts, quoran et al, demand, in the name of allah, hate, subjugation and murder of Hindus, Christians, Jews and others. Hateful instructions in the name of allah, indoctrinated into muslims from youth, and motivating the terror that we are all living through.

Where can i add my support for this 'fringe' group, who speak, i think, for the majority of us.

The Grauniad seems unaware that the campaign to ban the obscene and blasphemous (and beloved of critics) SPRINGER - THE OPERA from BBC TV broadcasting was a complete success. This "fringe" group correctly identified it as so extremely offensive as to be literally indefensible, and the BBC, after huffing and puffing for a few days about freedom of speech, scuttled off the stage among the laughter of all of Britain's few Christians and the groans of its many dhimmis and Christian haters. Evidently these guys know how to select the right target. I cannot imagine the Koran being banned for any reason - it would be politically unimaginable - but I think this will make more noise than many people would like.

This is the best piece of intelligent news I have heard in months. Why call this group a 'Christian fundamentalist fringe group?
What they propose it quite sane, reasonable and noble; we should all join them in their protest campaign to have the Quran outlawed in western countries as a book promoting hatred of non-muslims

Yes, I can't remember anything about loving thy neighbour or turning the other cheek or doing unto others as you would have done unto yourself in the Koran.

I would have to agree to differ with certain of the views expressed by Christian Voice.
But that's our strength, that we have a society, a religion, where we can disagree but still know that we are all God's children.
On this issue I am happy to find myself in complete agreement with them.

The Grauniad seems unaware that the campaign to ban the obscene and blasphemous (and beloved of critics) SPRINGER - THE OPERA from BBC TV broadcasting was a complete success.

Er...no it wasn't. It was broadcast on BBC 2 - I saw it. It starred David Soul - no pun intended I'm sure. (He's gone right off since 'Starsky and Hutch'.)

I also saw it live at the Cambridge Theatre. It is hilarious. The music is sublime and the combination of this music with the subject matter really original.

I'm not a fan of Christian Voice - they are a mean spirited bunch. Nevertheless I'm very pleased that they are threatening to challenge this absurd piece of legislation, which has yet to go through the Lords, in a way that shows up its most obvious absurdities. It is a pity that the Church of England has lost its backbone and that it is left to fundamentalist nutters to state the obvious. I hope it stimulates debate about the Koran, which many still think is a book of peace.

Just cos the Guardian`s been going downhill, there`s no excuse for them not understanding what `snowball effect` is.

It may be a nutty fringe group, but dammit if they need signatures they sure would get mine. And a lot of other organizations as well (well not the anglican church).

It's unfortunate that Christian Voice are the ones doing the complaining, and they are more than a "nutty fringe group". A couple of months ago they wrote to the head of the police, demanding that they stop employing gays. Why? Sounds like something the Muslims would do. Christian Voice are just as hateful as any Muslims. I just wish a more sensible group was publicly doing this. It shows what a terrible state the UK is in when it takes lunatics to attack lunatics. We are not allowed to do or say anything about Islam and Muslims here. I don't think the US has it as bad as we do.

You are all rallying behind censorship, discrimination and freedom of religion under the guise of a nutty religious fringe group who happens to share your hatred for Islam. Period.

From their own [comically tragic] website:

"We shall be quick off the mark and fearless in His strength alone in pointing out what is wrong with other religions and what is right with Christianity. If anyone is going to be a ‘hate speech martyr’ it must be a Christian" http://www.christianvoice.org.uk/hate.html

"Read it all"

You are all rallying behind censorship, discrimination and freedom of religion under the guise of a nutty religious fringe group who happens to share your hatred for Islam. Period. - posted above
_______________________________________

When those oh-so-moral high and might supercilious sneering fishes have wreaked their havoc,

prostituted civilization for their own venality

and it is time to stand up and fight (`cept for those without a spine covered by the `tolerant` blanket and pleading a period)

then it is right to make peace with a controllable lunatic.
Dammit they`ll be in the front line.

I have read it already King.
Let's put the full quotation, and in context.
They actually said that it is better a Christian should be the first "hate speech martyr" than a member of the British National Party, who are the true racist in the UK.

" If anyone is going to be a ‘hate speech martyr’ it must be a Christian, and not the leader of the British National Party, who would love that distinction."

I go to a study of the sikhs who destroyed mughal rule:

The career of Phula Singh illustrates both their defects and their qualities. This great Akali first came into notice as the leader of the attack on Metcalfe's escort at Amritsar in 1809. He was then employed by Ranjit Singh, who stood in considerable awe of him, as a leader in the Indus valley, where he was guilty of atrocious cruelty towards the Mohammedan population, and in Kashmir. Finally, Phula Singh and his Akalis contributed to, or rather virtually won for Ranjit Singh, the great Sikh victory over the Yusafzais at Teri in 1823. In this battle Phula Singh met with a heroic death, and his tomb at Naushehra is now an object of pilgrimage to Hindus and Mohammedans alike.

http://www.sikh-heritage.co.uk/movements/Nihangs/Nihangs.htm

A pooftah will not understand that.

`who destroyed mughal rule`

There were also the Rajputs, Maharastrians etc. Thank god the indians sorted the mossies out before the whie men went in.
A bit earlier and every indian would have been a muslim. The greatest supporters of the muslims have been the christian church. Disgusting.

"You are all rallying behind censorship, discrimination and freedom of religion under the guise of a nutty religious fringe group who happens to share your hatred for Islam."

OK, sure. Now go ahead and find something on the site that says how all people should be converted to Christianity, or die. Or show where on that site it says that conversions by the sword are permissable, or where non-Christians are supposed to pay humiliating taxes and have restrictions on their human rights. Same for women. If they do, fine, you've made your point. If they want to oppress homosexuals, that's also a no go. But I will support a minor enemy against a greater one.

Prophet Geoff
BBUH

Prophet/Imam/BBUH/Geoff: "Now go ahead and find something on the site that says how all people should be converted to Christianity, or die."

King: OK, without further adieu or more obfuscation from you which you will no doubt partake in your next post:

Don’t associate with non-Christians. Don’t receive them into your house or even exchange greeting with them. 2 John 1:10

Shun those who disagree with your religious views. Romans 16:17
You must kill those who worship another god. Exodus 22:20

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

Any city that doesn’t receive the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. Mark 6:11

Jude reminds us that God destroys those who don’t believe in him. Jude 5

Whoever denies “that Jesus is the Christ” is a liar and an anti-Christ. 1 John 2:22

Christians are “of God;” everyone else is wicked. 1 John 5:19

The non-Christian is “a deceiver and an anti-Christ” 2 John 1:7

Anyone who doesn’t share Paul’s beliefs has “an evil heart.” Hebrews 3:12

False Jews are members of “the synagogue of Satan.” Revelations 2:9, 3:9

I find everything above offensive and think it should be banned from sale.

King T. how many millions of North Africans were slaughtered during the arabo/imperialist conquest of the region?

Did you know that the last Byzantine govenor of N. Africa was a women....and a Jew?

Then again, you couldn't care less cuz you're a clever cookie; you're an enlightened progressive, and so you realise that islamofascism is actually the new "anti-imperialism", right?

For now you just cut and paste, but I've a hunch that sometime in the near future you'll cut and run.

Many Berbers in N. Africa, the indigenous inhabitants of the region, are reverting to Christianity....the religion of their ancestors.

And that, in my opinion, is the ultimate gesture of anti-imperialism, the ultimate path to de-colonisation.

Go tell them it isn't.

All ~

You have to admit: King Tolerance has a point. To restrict speech would be to lay down our great strength.

The solution to the Jihad, as Hugh points out, is only, say, 5% military-naval. It is 90% a matter of winning in the realm of ideas topped off with a legislative victory lap: restricted immigration, targeted deportation, prohibition of re-volleyed oil monies, an energy independence Apollo* program, etc.

So the way to crush the Jihad is to drag it out into the light and expose it for what it is. Subject it to the ruthless illumination of Western intellectual rigor. In all of history, no civilization has been as utterly dominant in the realm of ideas as our own. We must have confidence in that legacy, and play it for all it's worth--not restrict it.

Forget a legal fund for prosecuting Koran sales under double-edged "hate speech" laws; buy up billboard space and let the world see bin Laden quotes right next to concurrent quotes from the Koran, the hadiths, etc.

Progress is glacial, but we'll win.

" drag it out into the light and expose it for what it is. Subject it to the ruthless illumination of Western intellectual rigor"

That's the sort of debate I'm hoping that Christian Voice's actions will spark.

English proverb from 1546, derived from (probably) Jeremiah 5:21
There's none so blind as them that will not see.

JohnPalubinski: "For now you just cut and paste, but I've a hunch that sometime in the near future you'll cut and run."

King: Sheesh. What's with the provincial taunting? I answered your challenge in another thread. Go read them.

JohnP: "how many millions of North Africans were slaughtered during the arabo/imperialist conquest of the region?"

King: The gall!! How many AFRICANS IN GENERAL were remorsely slaughtered, converted, divided and sold into the slave trade by Europeans? The colonization and rape of the entire continent of Africa by Europeans leaves its scars today, and now Europe whines and wimpers about a few Muslims and tries to ignore history in the process.

The gall!! How many AFRICANS IN GENERAL were remorselessly slaughtered, converted, divided and sold into the slave trade by Arabs?

Read - White Gold by Giles Milton to hear of the 1 million + British and European women and men kidnapped and taken as slaves to Islamic countries of North Africa.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/0340794704/qid=1129221159/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_3_1/202-1146225-7410251

King,

You need to make a distinction between the first five books of the Old Testament and the New Testament. The earliest books of the Old Testament are about the Jews escaping from slavery in Egypt, wandering in the wilderness and then establishing themselves in the Holy Land. Unfortunately this involved rooting out customs, habits and beliefs that were adverse to the Judaism and the laws given to Moses even if this sadly meant in cases destroying those who held and promoted these. However,this is set in chronology and context. The last of these books which you quote from, Deuteronomy dates from 1460 BC. The Jews were commanded to live, stay and keep the faith in Israel, not to conquer and forcibly convert the world. These instructions are not open-ended, in contrast to those in the Koran and the Hadith.

Deuteronomy 13 refers to how to deal with prophets that may arise who try and lead the Jews away from God. It proscribes the death penalty for such people who try and entice the Jews away from God in the Promised Land. This is not the same thing as going out and killing people of different faiths. Deuteromony 13:6 says 'If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter or the wife of thy bosom or thy friend which is as thy own soul entice thee secretly, saying Let us go and serve other gods....

Deuteronomy 13:12 refers to how the Jews should behave in the cities which God gave them. It does not refer to other cities, in keeping with the faith being established in a specific place and not outside.

Again Deuteronomy 17 refers to how to behave within the gates of just those places which God gave to the Jews.

Deuteronomy 18 says that false prophets in the Holy Land shall die, it does not say kill them.

Passages elsewhere in the Bible which warn of God's power to destroy the wicked are not the same thing as calling upon people to attack others.

Christians' regarding non-Christians as being sinful or wicked is not the same thing as hating them. Jesus instructed us to love our enemies and to hate the sin but love the sinner.
2 John refers to shunning people who bring false doctrines not those others who believe in these.

The problem for us is that jihad proscribed time and time again in Islamic scripture is open-ended, Muslims are instructed to wage it against us until Islam rules the world, giving infidels the three choices of conversion, death of dimmitude. That is why Islam is so dangerous for non-Muslims.

Elephant: "You need to make a distinction between the first five books of the Old Testament and the New Testament."

King: With all due respect, I do not. OT/NT are in The Bible. They are all considered scripture, as the Koan is consdiered scripture.

Elephant: "Muslims are instructed to wage it against us until Islam rules the world, giving infidels the three choices of conversion, death of dimmitude."

King: I know about 8 devout Muslims and I cannot recall being given the choice of conversion, death or dhimmitude. A few of us quarrel over NFL predictions but that's about it.

King: "The gall!! How many AFRICANS IN GENERAL were remorsely slaughtered, converted, divided and sold into the slave trade by Europeans?"

Less, I believe, than were so mistreated by islamists. Actually, Granny's post about European victims of slavery is also quite relevant in this score, to say nothing of those historical victims of islam in the once-Christian and Jewish Middle East. Anatolia, anyone?

King: "I know about 8 devout Muslims and I cannot recall being given the choice of conversion, death or dhimmitude."

Of course. You live in a majority secular/Christian nation. My God, can there be anyone so deliberately obtuse? Try things out in an islamic nation, if you're so sure everything would be the same. Make sure to debate a muslim about religion in public. And send us the hospital photos; alternatively, a death certificate would also be deen.

Prophet Geoff
BBUH

"I know about 8 devout Muslims and I cannot recall being given the choice of conversion, death or dhimmitude."
-- from a posting above

They are not in control. Judge not by what Muslims do or say in lands where they are a very small minority, but by what they do to non-Muslims wherever they are in control. Start with Pakistan and Bangladesh and Indonesia and even Malaysia, then move to Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Egypt, and so on. Of course Saudi Arabia does not permit Infidels to become permanent residents, much less citizens. But does anyone doubt that the position of Christians all over the Arab and Muslim world, for the past 1350 years, has been that of dhimmitude, except in those few places where the presence of Western powers, or the pressure from outside of powerful Western powers, limited the ability of the locals to fully deal with non-Muslims as they would have liked. Maronites, Assyrians, Armenians, Chaldeans, Mandeans, and Copts (not to mention Jews everywhere) have all had their episodes, far from intermittent, even in this century, of discrimination, persecution, and often mass murder, at the hands of Muslims when those Muslims felt they had a free hand.

Anecdotal evidence about what Muslims say or do in the West, as it is still constituted, is irrelevant.

King: "The gall!! How many AFRICANS IN GENERAL were remorsely slaughtered, converted, divided and sold into the slave trade by Europeans?"

'The African continent was bled of its human resources via all possible routes. Across the Sahara, through the Red Sea, from the Indian Ocean ports and across the Atlantic. At least ten centuries of slavery for the benefit of the Muslim countries (from the ninth to the nineteenth).'~ Elikia M’bokolo

http://allafrica.com/stories/200509260797.html

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Bailey/real_slave_master.html

Lots of etc's, care to prove them wrong?

Hugh: "Judge not by what Muslims do or say in lands where they are a very small minority, but by what they do to non-Muslims wherever they are in control."

King: This thread is about folks in the UK wishing to ban the Koran. The UK, where Muslims are a minority and where they do, in large part, live in peaceful harmony with and even are citizens of the UK. Yet, you judege daily on what Muslims do in the UK, refusing your own advice in the comment I've selected from you. Moreover, neither you or I live in a Muslim country. We are not privy to the politics, customs, cultures and other essential ingredients required to understand a country as a whole. Sure, you do not like Islam and you qustion some of its teachings but you fail to even scratch the surface of the other ingredients that can make a radical extremist. You also, somehow, rationalize and apologize for the horrors that Christians unleashed on this planet in the not too distant past. For these reasons, I consider you as irrelevant as you consider my anecdote.

Geoff: "Make sure to debate a muslim about religion in public."

King: Do it all of the time. Usually over coffee, we take turns treating. Being a secularist myself, we have disagreements about religion and its role in society often. How's that for obtuse or irrelevant?

King,

The Old Testament is the old law whilst the New Testament is the new law. The coming of the Messiah made the difference to God's relationship with us. For example, one of the main differences in the NT is that Christians are to spread the message far and wide throughout the entire world.

Even if you make no distinction in content, please make a distinction in chronology and context, and bear in mind that the Koran has neither.

(Let's see if Geoff finds the hidden type-o's)

Elephant: "Even if you make no distinction in content, please make a distinction in chronology and context, and bear in mind that the Koran has neither."

King: Certainly the OT came before the NT, chronologically. They are both, however, in the Bible which Christians consider as the Word.

The NT not only proclaimed that Chrisitians are to spread the message far and wide (evangalism, proselytizing), but in order to achieve salvation you HAVE to accept Jesus as the Messiah. This excludes all non-Chrisitians, right?

As for context, there have been numerous translations, editing and versions over the centuries. The Bible you now know is in one of the newst languages in the world - English. You interpret interpretations via several language translantions. Hardly pure.

SP qustion

"The UK... in large part, live in peaceful harmony"

I could give you names and addresses of families of victims of Moslem murders who would strongly disagree (as surveys say)with that statement. And not all of them would be from the 7th of July. Not to mention the injured and traumatised from that day.

Moslem murderers.
See these typos are infectious.

From this thread's original post:

"It is noteworthy that Muslim groups sought a specific exemption for the Qur'an from these religious hatred laws: a TACIT admission that they know very well what is in the book, despite their public insistence that it is full of peace and tolerance."

I don't know anything about the Christian Voice group. They could be real nutters. So what.

If they can present, and read, the really nasty Qur'anic passages in a well-publicized court proceeding, that would be good. If they can help to prevent passage of those religious villification and hate laws (passage of which would basically prevent unsanctionable future criticizim of those very passages), that would be even better.

The issue isn't about what Christians and Jews and others did, in the name of religion (of which much was truly vile), in the past.

It is about Islam, today. It is about jihadists who justify their barbaric, personal behavior, today, on the Qur'an and Islamic teachings.

Sawing another person's head off, or facilitating that act, is a personal decision. And the folks who committing those personal acts typically chant Allahu Akhbar throughout the process.

It is about exposing the Qur'an to the general public, including the press and elected officials, and forcing moderate Western Muslims to admit that such passages and beliefs are known to, and are applicable to, them, UBL, and every Muslim on the planet.

It is about making the average Western Joe understand that his Muslim neighbors may wish him harm, and challenging those aspects of their religion.

Speaking as a Christian fundamentalist, I do not share the desire to ban the Qur'an as hate literature. I'd like it to die a natural death and retire to the museum as the world comes to Christ. The whole "hate speech" debate is a prime example of framing mischief by law, and why every time someone on the Left says he disagrees with what you said but will fight to the death for your right to say it, you need to count your silver spoons a second time. Even though I believe it is Exhibit A in the history of False Prophecy (along with the Book of Mormon), the Qur'an will continue to occupy a portion of my bookshelf. My advice to everyone who feels offended is to recognize that freedom of speech, press, airwave, and net is a good thing. Its abuse by some does not abolish its legitimate use.

KT, so what if we Christians believe that people who persistently and finally reject the Messiah go to Hell, even if it isn't our job to hasten them on their way? And please give the somewhat "obnoxious" among us the benefit of the doubt for recognizing that it IS our job to try to persuade people to head in the other direction!

Besides, don't you believe that those of us who believe that God will judge the living and the dead will be left on the ash-heap of your goddess History? Weren't there people on your side of the divide who were as credulous as the day is long about the glories of such regimes as Stalin's and Mao's (oops! Murmeltier's--since it was the perfijjus JOOOOOOOZ whose innate dogmatism introduced a doctrinaire strain into our humane Chinese communism), partly because such regimes were so good at decreasing the visibility of organized religion?

Also, Elephant, if you'd read the Apostle Paul a bit more carefully, you'd know that we Christians aren't one whit better than anyone else. Christ's righteousness is imputed to us, and our sins are forgiven. A little humility, please!

The poser "King"-, although he rarely presents anything worth of debate-, but about halfway through this thread -he must have gone to great length to find it-, he dug out this:

Kill any friends or family that worship a god that is different than your own. Deuteronomy 13:6-10

Kill all the inhabitants of any city where you find people that worship differently than you. Deuteronomy 13:12-16

Kill everyone who has religious views that are different than your own. Deuteronomy 17:2-7

Kill anyone who refuses to listen to a priest. Deuteronomy 17:12-13

Kill any false prophets. Deuteronomy 18:20

Christians should learn about their religion. Presumably few would know, that such verses exist.

Now if they were applied, that would be the end of Muhammedanism in Europe. Matter of fact, if any of them were applied, the slaves of Allah would have been long eliminated.

I strongly recommend that you visit the books section at voi.org to see Mr. Goel's body of work.

He's a formidable historian whose work illustrates how Hindus have managed to survive in the face of the thousand year Moslem onslaught they've suffered.

We blue-eyed white guys are conciliatory pussies compared to these Hindus. They are a source of hope and inspiration in an otherwise bleak future.

Another Indian intellectual who publishes there, Suhas Majumdar, has a 100-age book "Jihad: the Islamic Doctrine of Permanent War" that is a real eye-opener.

I consider Mr. Majumdar's "religious riot" theory to be ground breaking work in this sordid business of Islam and the animalistic Moslems it defecates into our otherwise beautiful world.

Kepha: "My advice to everyone who feels offended is to recognize that freedom of speech, press, airwave, and net is a good thing. Its abuse by some does not abolish its legitimate use."

King: I agree.

Kepha: "KT, so what if we Christians believe that people who persistently and finally reject the Messiah go to Hell, even if it isn't our job to hasten them on their way?"

King: What you've said here is tantamount to calling someone who does not belive in Jesus an infidel. Its judgemental and divisive. In my opinion, it's not your job to do anything about people's salvation. That's for individuals to decide.

Kepha: "Besides, don't you believe that those of us who believe that God will judge the living and the dead will be left on the ash-heap of your goddess History?"

King: I don't believe this at all.

The NT not only proclaimed that Chrisitians are to spread the message far and wide (evangalism, proselytizing), but in order to achieve salvation you HAVE to accept Jesus as the Messiah. This excludes all non-Chrisitians, right?

What are Christians to do if the unbelievers reject the Gospel?

Luke 9:5
And whosoever will not receive you, when ye go out of that city, shake off the very dust from your feet for a testimony against them.

sheik: "Christians should learn about their religion. Presumably few would know, that such verses exist."

King: Right you are.

sheik: "Now if they were applied, that would be the end of Muhammedanism in Europe. Matter of fact, if any of them were applied, the slaves of Allah would have been long eliminated."

King: Racist, bigoted and an ethnic cleanser. Why did you not say? I've already spent too much time you and your trash. Glad you're recording your thoughts in the archives, though. They're as valid as any!

The equal verse ala islam,
Qur’an 9:29 “Fight those who do not believe in Allah or the Last Day, who do not forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, or acknowledge the Religion of Truth (Islam), (even if they are) People of the Book (Christians and Jews), until they pay the Jizyah tribute tax in submission, feeling themselves subdued and brought low.” [Another translation says:] “pay the tax in acknowledgment of our superiority and their state of subjection.”

I am astonished that Kink Quisling left out of his mammoth list of horrifying injunctions prescribed by OT and NT one that is both VASTLY more recent AND explicitly offensive to Moslems.

I am, of course, talking about the famous remark by E. Hemingway: “Never trust a non-drinking man!”

Think about the suffering and injustice Moslems have endured as a result of that disgusting hate speech!

It does explain clearly why practically all gang rapes against Scandinavian women are carried out by Mohammedans. Or, for example, why Mohammedans have butchered over a million Christians in South Sudan.
It’s revenge, stupid!

Kingky:

You are rather intolerant! Do I notice some signs of hysteria in your -frantic- postings?

King:" Racist, bigoted and an ethnic cleanser..."

No way, Kingky! You are playing the "accuse the accuser" game. But seriously, I think you have a heavy chip on your shoulders.

You have a problem with white people, (clearly) You are an advocate of reverse discrimination, and you become hysterical when I answer your posts.

You came up with some ancient biblical stuff and the good Sheik will make no apologies for pointing out that,- if push comes to shove, Christians could use those scriptures to beat the Mohammedans at their own game.

These scriptures would provide the "moral justification", does that worry you?

The equivalence argument KingTolerance advances is ineffectual.

Sure, Deuteronomy is filled with fire and brimstone. Written about 1400 BC, the ideas advanced in this book have long ago been laid to rest, inactive in the minds, and resultant behavior, of Jews and Christians.

By contrast, the Koran, composed some 2,000 years later, is fundamentalist in that it is regarded to be the literal words of God and, therefore, totally closed to interpretation.

No interpretation layer, no change. No change, no moderation. No moderation, no modernization.

This is why Islam has resulted in an unbroken string of murder and mayhem. So, even if the Koran and Bible are equivalent, how does one explain Islam's wretched track record?

Just a glance at Moslems, always angry, always aggreived, always agressive, and then a glance at Christians and Jews, demonstrates the essential distinction between the Bible and the Koran.

And anyway, what with WMD and all we can't afford the luxury tolerating this awful and crapulous religion called Islam.

Moslems are to be regarded as misbehaving, and extremely dangerous, children. They are to closely watched, and punished when necessary.

King: What you've said here is tantamount to calling someone who does not belive in Jesus an infidel. Its judgemental and divisive. In my opinion, it's not your job to do anything about people's salvation. That's for individuals to decide.

Once upon a time, a fairly eloquent fellow dreamed of a time when a man would not be judged by the color of his skin, but on the content of his character. He died, assasinated, after being goaded into a series of actions through editorial comment and current events. Time passed, an the important message began to become corrupted. At first, it was simply truncated, to read, in essence, a man should not be judged on the color of his skin. This was generally accepted, as it at least implied that judging a man on other reasonable criteria was permissable and appropriate.

However, we apparently have now come to a time when some character says "A man should not be judged." This is both inappropriate and foolish, in so far as it renders any and all action excusable. To take a specific examination of the Muslim community, their religion specifically states polyamory, domestic violence and slavery are permissable. One may readily point to examples of each of these behaviors. This is evidence of the content of their character -- both of those who directly commit these acts and of those who accept these acts. While every individual is entitled to their own road to salvation, their rights end where they impact me. Thusly, Mohammedean jihad theology, with its demands of special treatments and threats of violence present a temporal issue, spiritual issues be hanged.

To argue that "well, your ancestors did similar things a century ago" is intellectually dishonest, as it is simply a parry of the thesis, and a sloppy parry at that. I would also note that some of these apologists, who rail and snipe when the content of Islam's character is debated or discussed are conspicuous in their absence when the discussion turns to actual current events pertaining to "Muslim political activities." To seriously argue moral equivalence is to embrace moral cowardice -- again, because where nothing can be adjudged as being "wrong," everything becomes permissable, even Mohammed's example of paedophilia, rapine and banditry.

The UK group should drop the Koran lawsuit. Obfuscation, as seen here from KingTolerance, dooms their purpose.

They should instead seek to ban the Hadiths. What other great religion has the Sunnah? What other great religion teaches children to emulate a murderer, thief, rapist, pedophile, liar, kidnapper, and slave trader?

I mean, how many 9-year old girls did Jesus screw?

How many murders did the Brahmins order?

How many villages did Siddhartha burn and loot?

How many innocents did Confucius kidnap and sell into sex slavery?

How many?!

And how many Fridays have occured since 632 AD when, in a paroxym of child abuse, the awful Moslems started to inoculcate this awful Sunnah?

How many hate crimes does that make?

How many more are we willing to tolerate?

You can list every Christian atrocity or supporting scripture you can find, and it still is not an excuse for Islam. There is no excuse for Islam. The Religion of Peace is a lie and all the non beleivers here (and elsewhere) know it. No amount of Christian bashing or intellectual masturbation about it (ala Kingky) is going to change that. The Religion of Peace was founded on a lie by an arch liar. The lies have continued and more are on their way.
A religion founded on lies is on shakey ground, lts deciet may become known. All false religions eventually die of the same disease...That of being 'found out'. Islam has been 'found out', it has been lit up by the light of truth. Like Dracula in sunlight Islam is due for disintegration...overdue...

The Bible is the ONLY book to contain Prophecies.
In fact 30% of the Bible is devoted to Prophecy of
which many have come true.

No other religious book claims to even contain
Prophecy.

The Bible has to be understood in its totality and
if you look at the Qur'an, it was essentially
plagerized from the Bible. Taking many of its
elements out of context.

The Qur'an is a series of quotes with no historical timeline. Any qoute can be placed anywhere within the Qur'an without changing its meaning.

We were created with free will. We chose to believe that what we wish, but rest assured that
the Bible is the inspired word of God. The Qu'ran
was satanically inspired.

There are two main philosphical belief systems in effect in the world.

A. Some believe that life is a conflict the rich and the poor.
B. Some believe that life is a conflict bewteen good and evil.

Seeing what is going on with Islam, I choose B.

Kingky:

For one like you -who so obviously hates white people- it is not only dishonest to scream "racist" whenever you post here, but it also shows that you have a deep-rooted inferior complex and that "racist" and 'reverse-discrimination" should be written all over you.

http://www.acage.org/news/?day=10042005&id=0003

"The UK... in large part, live in peaceful harmony"-

Harmony like this:

http://www.yahoo.com/s/257657

A few small comments for KingIntolerance's benefit:

Geoff: "Make sure to debate a muslim about religion in public."

King: "Do it all of the time. Usually over coffee, we take turns treating. Being a secularist myself, we have disagreements about religion and its role in society often. How's that for obtuse or irrelevant?"

Pretty obtuse, extremely irrelevant. You're doing so safe in a Western country. Try it in an islamic one. If you survive, rinse and repeat as necessary until you understand the word "dhimmi".

Back later, Mein herr.

Prophet Geoff

I see King T couldn't be bothered responding to my posts on the Oct 11th re Dawa in Canada - and why those passages in the OT are there, that he loves quoting so much, in a vain attempt to defend Islam (as if attacking some other belief can justify your own??????).

King T says:

“King: Racist, bigoted and an ethnic cleanser. Why did you not say? I've already spent too much time you and your trash. Glad you're recording your thoughts in the archives, though. They're as valid as any!”

This comment coming from a Muslim who approves of Mohammed's sex acts with little 9 year old girls. King you are a closet paedophile. How dare you call others "Racist, bigoted and ethic cleanser", when you approve of Mohammed’s sex acts with little girls.

Yes I know I can feel it coming, here come all the man made rabbinical passages about little girls, which as a Christian I do not follow anyway! In fact King I am still waiting for you to quote Bible passages where Christ to approves of such heinous acts. Just like I am waiting for you to debunk me with the OT characters being told to do certain acts IN ISRAEL only, not on buses, planes, or wherever you find infidels (like the 110 odd verses all through the Koran).

As usual King, you resort to name calling, as you have lost the debate with all the infidels here. Oh as for me calling you a paedophile, well that is backed up with FACT, or are you going to repent and stay Mohammed had a real mental problem, due to his sleeping with little girls?

Oh I also see that the Koran needs to be read in Arabic. Oh I see, God can’t communicate with the world, it has to be the Arabs. What a load of croc! You believe in a “god” who supposividly created the world, yet can only communicate in Arabic? Gee whiz, why didn’t he do it just for the Jews, and the Greeks, and the Chinese, and the Indians. Why just Arabic? Seems like bit of an Arabic supremacy complex to me! Or is that Arabic colonialism?

Hmmmmmm............still waiting................

But wait there is more! King T brings up slavery and colonialism. Tell me King, like others here have asked, just who exactly did the Europeans buy their slaves off? King can you even tell me where the word SLAVes comes from? Didn’t think so! What about assassin? Nope didn’t think so.

But to answer the above – Islam was involved in the African slave trade LONG before so called “Christians” were involved (they were more like Capitalists). In fact Islam was involved in it for well into the hundreds of years before Europe became involved. In fact Islam took up where the Pagan Roman Empire left off, and even went further by raiding “black” Africa for a regular supply of slaves (just so you know King – the word Slaves comes from the Romans who used the Slavic people as slaves – just like Islam uses “Black” people as slaves. Tell me king how do you say ‘slave’ in Arabic? How do you say ‘black’?)

The Muslim slave drivers kept the best for themselves, castrated the males, and the females served as both baby machines and slaves in general. This explains all the Haratin people in North Africa and the Middle East. Whereas the US want for slaves could not be so easily accessed, the Euro slave owners allowed the Black African males to keep their “crown jewels”, as constantly buying slaves of the Islamic Slave Traders (who I might add STILL exist TODAY) was a real bugger. This explains why the USA has a huge Black African Population.

But the barbaric Muslims? Nope – off with their testiculi!

The Europeans, King, didn’t actually get in on the “act” until years later, and even then, it was for a much, such shorter time frame than the Islamic involvement in slavery. Really it shows what a “dick” people like Malcom X and the like are!

King I am still waiting for you to tell me, and all here (as you avoided all of these points on the Oct 11 thread), where is the great wrestling of guilt over the slave issue in the Islamic world? It happened all through Christian Europe, especially England. The USA fought a long and incredibly bloody war over the issue. Tell me why wasn’t until THE 70’s that the Saudi’s got rid of slavery? (at least at an ‘official’ level)????? Why is it the “Great Satan” can wrestle with these issues but the Islamic world, full of freedom and righteousness can not?

I’ll tell you why. Because for all the Christian mistakes down through the ages, as a Christian myself, I can say just that! I can wrestle with my conscience, debate openly what is right and wrong – tease out an issue (something the Christians inherited from Jewish culture).. In short – FREEDOM OF SPEECH. Why doesn’t this exist in ANY Islamic dominated country??? No doubt because Christianity reflects Christ (in general, yes King I know, Christians sin – that’s why HE died for us King), Muslims reflect not god, but Mohammed. A sick paedophilic War Lord.

Oh King T brings up Colonialism. Yes of course the Europeans invented it - NOT!

Tell all here King, as a Muslim, who was colonising Europe as early as the 700's? Who conquered and colonised Spain? France? The Balkans? Russia? India? Israel? North Africa? Central Africa? Turkey? Greece?

And I still yet haven't even GOT TO the 1700's when European expansion began in earnest!

Why is it King, that India STILL HAS its Hindu culture AFTER the British have left? In fact ALL the colonised countries - INCLUDING the Muslim one's (who were once Pagan before Muslim colonisation) still retained their culture AFTER the Europeans left? Gee Whiz king those Christian missionaries weren’t all that great were they? Did those Jesuit Priests really go out converting people shouting Jihad!! Jihad!! Jihad!!!!

Or was it just a case of the Church following the state? Whereas in Islam's colonisation, it was a case of the State following the "Church" er Mosque?

The Muslims CANNOT attack the Europeans over colonialism. The Muslim example is not only longer in history and bloodshed, but was sanctioned by Islam (as opposed to the State) and removed almost every last trace of the previous Pagan, Hindu, Buddhist, Christian, and Jewish cultures.

For Muslims to lecture the West on colonialism is to see pure hypocrisy in action.

TOLERANCE:

While Christians who turn to Islam are feted, the 200,000 Muslims who turn away are faced with abuse, violence and even murder

THE first brick was thrown through the sitting room window at one in the morning, waking Nissar Hussein, his wife and five children with a terrifying start. The second brick went through his car window.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1470584_1,00.html

Anti-Jewish and anti-American propaganda published by the Saudi Arabian government has been on display at U.S. mosques, according to an American human rights group.

The publications – including some found in the largest mosque in the Dallas area – urge Muslims to hate Christians and Jews and to refuse service in "infidel" armies.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/020505dnrelislamlit.533e8.html

Hate centres in the US
http://usinfo.state.gov/products/pubs/muslimlife/musmap.htm

Christian Voice is taking an action that few in the West are brave enough to do: expose the liberal West to the hateful ideology which is part and parcel of the Koran and Islam itself.

Some Muslims living in Great Britian today are making a case that the Union Jack should be replaced because it carries the red cross of the Crusades within its symbol. They say that the Union Jack if offensive to them as Muslims because the Christian crusades were directed against them in the distant past.

If Muslims in Great Britian want to complain today about a Christian image in the flag that was once a symbol used in the crusades hundreds of years ago, then Christians in Great Britian today have EVERY RIGHT to make the case that the Koran, which is used as a pretext for inciting hatred and violence in the west, should be clearly exposed as a hostile book of racism and hatred.

Does the Koran teach that dark skin is some sort of curse or penalty? YES! This may explain the reason black Muslim Sudanese are despised by their Arab Muslims neighbors to the north who are seeking to exterminate them. " Muhammad said, ' When Allah created Adam, He hit Adam on the right shoulder and the white race sprang out, while the black race came from the black shoulder. Allah said to those of the right hand to Paradise you are and to the left to hell you go'" ( The Life of Muhammad: A translation of Ibn Ishaq's Sirat Rasul Allah pp 165-166).

The Koran is no book of peace. Expose it for what it really is: a book of half truths, racism, and hatred. I appreciate Christian Voice for making slashes in the calm waters of British political correctness. Somehow they recognize that there is a dark sea serpent(Islam) below the surface that waiting to surface in the West.

TOLERANCE:

It's a chilling story:
A man was shot five times in the head at close range in an "execution" plotted by a group who had failed to convert him to Islam, a jury has heard.

Where did this happen? Saudi Arabia? Iran? Egypt? Pakistan?
Nope. Try Great Britain. Islamic intimidation and contempt for those who reject Islam comes to the sceptered isle.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/008008.php

KingTolerance -- the type of argument you are using is "tu quoque". Rough translation: "I know what you are, but what am I?"

(I'd point you to the Fallacy Files, but the domain seems to have been snapped up by some chintzy portal which I'd rather not reward with any traffic.)

You are told that the Qur'an has passages advocating violence and intolerance toward unbelievers. You answer that the Bible does too. So? Maybe that's just reason not to believe in the Bible either.

You are told of the invasions, plunder and slaughter of the armies of Muhammad and his successors. You answer with the outrages committed by the European empires of the 19th century. And? That doesn't make the Banu Quraysh any less dead.

Ray C.: "KingTolerance -- the type of argument you are using is "tu quoque""

King: You learned that term from Hugh.

Ray C.: "You are told that the Qur'an has passages advocating violence and intolerance toward unbelievers. You answer that the Bible does too. So? Maybe that's just reason not to believe in the Bible either."

King; I don't believe in The Bible. My point is that The Bible is filled with the same sorts of violent scripture that the Islamophobes herein point out but refuse to grasp about Christianity, its history and its ability to be radicalised.

3rdtimelucky: "Hmmmmmm............still waiting................"

King: You must take your lessons from Geoff! You post more questions in rapid fire succession than anyone cares to read, let alone answer. I shall not waste my time with you and your dialoughe with yourself. Abscond!

Prophet/Imam/BBUDH/Geoff: "You're doing so [speaking to a Muslim about religion] safe in a Western country. Try it in an islamic one."

King: Done that! I've been to Jordan, Egypt, and Turkey. One of my friends is Jordanian, went there to visit his family at his invitation. Religion was discussed several times, I felt no tension or apprehension whatsoever. My last name is even of Jewish origin. Not sure where else you will try to take this, but I am sure you will try another route potholed with more of your obnoxious questions...

yer'mami: "For one like you -who so obviously hates white people"

King: Laughing out loud at you, your racist moniker, your inferiority, your cluelessness, your anger and the "friends" you keep here in cyberspace, of all places...

"King: What you've said here is tantamount to calling someone who does not belive in Jesus an infidel. Its judgemental and divisive. In my opinion, it's not your job to do anything about people's salvation. That's for individuals to decide."

Gee, I wonder what KT's 8 muslim "friends" consider him and call him behind his back, or in their native languages or arabic? In islam, he is AUTOMATICALLY an infidel, whether he finds it "offensive" or "judgemental and divisive" or not. I wonder if he has the balls to ask them. Oh wait . . . I forgot about taqiyya.

CGW: "Gee, I wonder what KT's 8 muslim "friends" consider him and call him behind his back, or in their native languages or arabic?"

King: Hmm. Being that they are my friends and one of them was the best man at my wedding, such thoughts do not resonate. Are you so insecure that you owuld even think this? Considering you cower on an anti-Islamic website and worry about what my friends say about me, I would not make mention of who has balls!

CGW: "Gee, I wonder what KT's 8 muslim "friends" consider him and call him behind his back, or in their native languages or arabic?"

King: Hmm. Being that they are my friends and one of them was the best man at my wedding, such thoughts do not resonate. Are you so insecure that you owuld even think this? Considering you cower on an anti-Islamic website and worry about what my friends say about me, I would not make mention of who has balls!

It is not christian voice to ban Quarn. It is hatred what they have for Quran. They cannot face reality and are afraid of the way Islam is spreading in USA.
It is they who do not respect religious books even.They do not know what are they asking for and are oblivious of its effects. The USA is not the world. Have they thought its repurcussions?

Let the world be tolerant and do not try to provoke others.

Oh no, KingTesticle is on the loose again!

Please leave my testicles out of this!

Posted by: auditor "and are afraid of the way Islam is spreading in USA." Seems many Muslims and those that are inline with the idea of Islam relish the though of people being "afraid, scared" of Islam.

Posted by: auditor "The USA is not the world." Muslim Countries are not the world either.

Posted by: auditor "Let the world be tolerant and do not try to provoke others." Tolerant of what? Evil will not be tolerated, it will be eliminated, just as the evil of hitler and Imperialistic Japan was destroyed.

Celebrating the Earthquake in Pakistan, laughing at those that died. Calling for the death of people that practise a religion called Islam, what a great bunch!!!

KingTolerance, I have really enjoyed reading your debates, you are a very smart guy. The problem however is that you can't really talk to those that live off hatred and revel in the suffering of other human beings.

__________________________________________________

Back to business.

If the people here actually think this group is being taken seriously you need a reality check. You are out of touch with reality. They have no standing whatsoever, these Christian fundamentalists represent no one.

Nothing will happen.

__________________________________________________

Okay, now let me see.

How many people here have studied the Quran, how many have studied the significance of certain chapters and the significance in the order the Quran was revealed. I don't think much have.

How many here have know about the how Islamic scholars use the Quran and hadith to come to verdicts, how many here know the structure of Islamic learning?

Okay, now this is the bit you don't get and I do feel sorry for you. You cannot take just one verse of the Quran out of context and use it to justify your own actions. In Muslim history this was done before by the Khwarij, they did this and left the main fold of Islam. They came against the mainstream. It is the Wahabi extremists that now do the same thing, they reject the classical approach to interpreting the Quran.

__________________________________________________

A message to those here that want the Quran banned.

There are verses in the Quran that are violent, but then there are those that are peaceful. This is the same with all religions, agree. Now you will say that they (other religions) don't do that sort of stuff (terrorist attacks) now, okay, how many Muslims commit terrorist attacks, out of more than a Billion. Tell me?

How many practise Islam peacefully?

How many of these read the Quran???

Now for those that commit terrorist attacks, will banning the Quran mean anything?

Tell me. No.

This is more about your crusade against everything to do with Islam (even those practising Islam peacefully) than confronting Islamic extremism.

Your vision is blurred, you have nothing but hatred in your hearts, instead of reaching out to peaceful Muslims across the World you wish to cause more trouble and only more death.

You are barking up the wrong tree, hey I wish you luck. You’re gonna need it.

IA: "KingTolerance, I have really enjoyed reading your debates, you are a very smart guy. The problem however is that you can't really talk to those that live off hatred and revel in the suffering of other human beings."

King: I thank you for the props, I also apreciate your perspective since you are, in fact, a peaceful Muslim, giving you the most credibility of all.

Indeed, I realize that most (not all) posters in here are of the most base and as provincial & parochial as you can get. They play obnoxious games and post their bile. I actually encouage the childish behavior as it defiles this website and their own cause - forever recorded in the archives as "wisdom." Do you know how many people I have directed to read the proceeedings here, only to hear them blurt in laughter at the self-defeating lunacy and double standard?

Yes, indeed the KingT is a real smart fellow. Smarter than the rest of us intolerant Christian/Jewish swine. I salute you KingT for your brilliance and ingenuity. Such a mind you must have, may allah(piss be upon him too) let you use it once.

K-Testicle, you are one sad person.

Let me see, you are most probably a racist, Islamophobic white supremacist, right? You retreat to JW cos no one you know wants shares the same views as you, that is the desire to have Muslims murdered, from a distance of course, you are a coward and don’t want to get your hands dirty. While here you are slaughtered by KingTolerance, humiliated you feel the need to register under K-Testicle, (you prob took very little time coming up with this name you have been obsessed (depressed!!!) with your own testicles since you were young.)

I feel sorry for you 'swine' (you said it), you are like a wild boar rolling in mud feeling sorry for yourself.

Get a life.

Trap open. You fell in!

King: "Done that! I've been to Jordan, Egypt, and Turkey. One of my friends is Jordanian, went there to visit his family at his invitation. Religion was discussed several times, I felt no tension or apprehension whatsoever."

Sigh...it seems I phrased the question too roughly, that or that KingIntolerance's imagination is getting the better of him. (Admittedly, it seems quite strange that he's bringing this up now, no?) Try being a MEMBER of an islamic nation, going out and doing it to the crowd instead of discussing it among 'friends' (for muslims may not be friends to kufr, straight from the Prophet). Again, send hospital bills, after-triage photos and police reports (if any) to DhimmiWatch. Better yet, try and marry a muslim woman. And as for what islamicists say behind people's backs, well...you'd be surprised. =)

And as for Ia: "you are most probably a racist, Islamophobic white supremacist" Wow. If inferring someone's race from email isn't racist, I don't know what is.

"There are verses in the Quran that are violent, but then there are those that are peaceful. This is the same with all religions, agree. Now you will say that they (other religions) don't do that sort of stuff (terrorist attacks) now, okay, how many Muslims commit terrorist attacks, out of more than a Billion. Tell me?"

A higher percentage than those in any other religion. Thanks for playing. Ya lose. LOL

Also thanks for the usual over-paranoia. Coming from a person who thinks the Jews or the Freemasons carried out 9/11, that won't deny the Protocols of Zion, and that "wouldn't force islam on anyone, BUT", that means a lot.

Amusingly, this is KT's biggest fan, and KT's greatest love: "King: I thank you for the props, I also apreciate your perspective since you are, in fact, a peaceful Muslim, giving you the most credibility of all."

Ah. More than those who merely wish not to be persecuted or killed in the name of islam. Right. Someone who thinks 9/11 was a conspiracy and that Jews run the world, who would force his religion onto people at need. For their own good, of course. This is KT's idol.

Need more really be said? LOL!

"Do you know how many people I have directed to read the proceeedings here, only to hear them blurt in laughter at the self-defeating lunacy and double standard?"

Zero. Then again, you might have done so at the madrassa. On the other hand, my contacts find your evasion highly illustrative. Why is it you can't answer questions, and only care about the transgressions (real or imagined) of religions other than islam?

Ia whines: "How many people here have studied the Quran, how many have studied the significance of certain chapters and the significance in the order the Quran was revealed. I don't think much have."

That's "many", and no, most people here appear to have done exactly that. To say nothing of the populations of every single muslim nation on the face of the earth. Frankly, their actions speak far louder than your words. Maybe you might once be able to comment on how apostates, kufr, women and homosexuals are treated in those nations. G'wan. I dare ya. =)

Prophet Geoff
BBUH

PS: Nice try on "dialogue", KT. "Dialoughe", heh. Veering t'ward the Gaelic, are we? Learn to spell, silly Wahhabit.

That reminds me of some more of Ia's paranoia:

"Celebrating the Earthquake in Pakistan, laughing at those that died. Calling for the death of people that practise a religion called Islam, what a great bunch!!!"

Who's celebrating? You? No one else here is. You really are a sick freak, Ia. I don't like Wahhabis either, but I'm not cheering their deaths.

Take your 'amour de la morte' and sod off, 'mate'.

Prophet Geoff
BBUH

Geoffory!!!

""There are verses in the Quran that are violent, but then there are those that are peaceful. This is the same with all religions, agree. Now you will say that they (other religions) don't do that sort of stuff (terrorist attacks) now, okay, how many Muslims commit terrorist attacks, out of more than a Billion. Tell me?"

A higher percentage than those in any other religion. Thanks for playing. Ya lose. LOL"

............

'Ya lose'........(?!?!?)

Huh??

This is no game Geoffory, this is not about, 'oh, my religion is better than yours, you have more people committing crimes in the name of your religion'. No, no, Geoffrey, this is as real as it gets, yes....!!!

As you said earlier, 'lots' of Muslims practise Islam peacefully!!! (Hey, you said it ^_^ )

Your response is WEAK. W_E_A_K!!!!

Absolutely nothing. Pppffff!!! dissappointed.

Heck, I expected as much, this is coming from a guy that thinks the crusades were defensive! Ha ha ha

_________________________________________________

"Ia whines: "How many people here have studied the Quran, how many have studied the significance of certain chapters and the significance in the order the Quran was revealed. I don't think much have."

That's "many", and no, most people here appear to have done exactly that."

You have!!! I'm glad you said that, because I really want you to know that Islamophobes have no leg to stand on, in a debate with any scholar you will get ripped apart. What were the foundations of Islam beloved Geoffrey, come on mate, bring it!!!

"To say nothing of the populations of every single muslim nation on the face of the earth. Frankly, their actions speak far louder than your words. Maybe you might once be able to comment on how apostates, kufr, women and homosexuals are treated in those nations. G'wan. I dare ya. =)"

Huh....!!!!

What are you talking about mate?

Again, you are barking up the wrong tree.

_______________________________________________

Read my first post AGAIN and then try sorting it oooouuuuuutt!!!

_______________________________________________

"That reminds me of some more of Ia's paranoia:

"Celebrating the Earthquake in Pakistan, laughing at those that died. Calling for the death of people that practise a religion called Islam, what a great bunch!!!"

Who's celebrating? You? No one else here is. You really are a sick freak, Ia. I don't like Wahhabis either, but I'm not cheering their deaths."

_________________________________________________

Yes, your chums here were celebrating the deaths of other human beings half way across the World. You hang around with a great bunch you know that. Grow some balls man.

Its funny, so many here laugh when innocent humans (innocent ordinary Muslims) are killed. Its pathetic, they ask for more to be killed. The funny thing is that they haven't got the balls to do anything, ask them to go to Iraq, never, they won't, they can’t. They’re happy to sit behind their monitors and moan and groan. They’re happy to be Internet warriors and generals, that’s all rather pathetic and sad. You don’t exist, you don’t mean anything to anyone, anywhere.

If you wish to kill Muslims go to Iraq, there’s a party going on over there.

I had to say I expected those comments, I won’t forget them. I know about those that wish death on me and my family. Bring it on.

Pakistan Zindabad!!! Allahu Akbar, Allahu Akbar, Meded, Ya Allah, Ya Rabbi, Meded Ya RasulAllah, Meded Ya Sayyidi!!

"Auditor" sez:

"It is not christian voice to ban Quarn. It is hatred what they have for Quran. They cannot face reality and are afraid of the way Islam is spreading in USA.
It is they who do not respect religious books even.They do not know what are they asking for and are oblivious of its effects. The USA is not the world. Have they thought its repurcussions?

Let the world be tolerant and do not try to provoke others."

Sheik sez: Let Islam become tolerant first!

Islam is not reality. It is Islam against the rest of the world.

1a, as we can see above, is becoming more and more radicalized. What will you be when you blow up, mate?

King:

Don't be be ashamed of your mammy! She has a better "image" than Islam, after all....

http://www.ferris.edu/htmls/news/jimcrow/mammies/

As we can see above, 1a, is becoming more and more radicalized.
What will you be when you blow up, mate?

Auditor sez:

"It is not christian voice to ban Quarn. It is hatred what they have for Quran. They cannot face reality and are afraid of the way Islam is spreading in USA.
It is they who do not respect religious books even.They do not know what are they asking for and are oblivious of its effects. The USA is not the world. Have they thought its repurcussions?

Let the world be tolerant and do not try to provoke others."

Sheik sez:

Islam is not reality. It is Islam against the rest of the world.

Let Islam become tolerant and then we (might) talk...

King T:

Leave your "mammy" out of it: She has a better "image" than Islam. You are insulting her!

http://www.ferris.edu/htmls/news/jimcrow/mammies/

Head of the OIC (Organization Of Islamic Countries) has the stand:

1.`Dato' Seri Najib kicked the ball first to insist to insist none should openly debate if Muslims could slander the followers of other religions

2. Non-Malays living in the vicinity of mosques in Kuala Lumpur hear this call to arms against the non-Muslims through high-pitches megaphones

http://mggpillai.com/print.php3?sid=2049

I can bet my bottom-most dollar that neither KT nor 1a786 hold a position beyond that of cleaner at the OIC.

ia786 has not sunk to the gutters.
He now uses the paki earthquake to excercise `taqiya` thru victim-hood invoking the dead islamic jihadists in Kashmir and northWest frontier.
People to whom he has been donating in the past.

There is no information so far about Osama bin Laden. Jihadi elements in Pakistan have been making frantic enquiries among themselves about the safety and welfare of "the Sheikh", which is possibly a reference to him. This would indicate that he was possibly in Pakistani territory at the time of the quake. - B. Raman `QUAKE IMPACT ON JIHADI TERRORISM`

Ia786--Hey, I'm not celebrating the Kashmir quake. On the contrary, I support Pres. Bush's sending official condolences and diverting US helicopters and troops to get some relied to the stricken area.

Who is my neighbor? Jesus himself used a Samaritan as a parable (the Samaritans were a group whom the Jews of intertestamental times scorned as descendants of Assyrian colonists; even though the Samaritans kept the Books of Moses).

"I actually encouage the childish behavior as it defiles this website and their own cause"

from King Tolerance

Yes KT we all here know how you like "childish behaviour" especially when it comes in the form of a nine year old girl as a sex bride for Mohammedians like you and IA. Please KT - keep your dirty thoughts to yourself.

"Considering you cower on an anti-Islamic website " - KT

What are you doing here then KT? Says a lot about you!

"King: Ooooo, I dunno. You're going to make Geoff awfully happy! He forages for such things like spelling and grammar.
Anyhow, your obfuscation and "explanation" about OT/NT is exactly what I expected. You can sit here and dissect a scripture that's not yours and come up with all sorts for reasons to hate it"

Actually King T my point is they are not the same. The Bible is solely based in Israel, re the passages you quote, to specific people in that time - I am still waiting for you to show me where that is in the Koran. The Bible passages you quote – if you read a little before and a little after – you would see that.

Obviously you cannot comprehend the simple language and commands in the Bible - THE WHOLE part/chapter/story of the passages you quote. If I was to quote THE WHOLE - chapter/passages in the Koran - I don't see any a) Story in a specific place 2) these commands being given to specific people, as in named individuals(who are all LONG DEAD) c) Which the reason Christians AND Jews can’t use those scriptures to justify violence today.

Why won’t you address the points I raised re the Bible? What you are a worthy scholar of the Koran, and also the Bible yet you won’t show it? Without showing it - what right do you have to condemn me for my comprehension of the Koran and my hate for its 110 war and killing verses that are generically littered all through it?

OH – I can only assume by your comment above, that I am not worthy to read and comprehend a book – any book, especially one that is not “mine”. Thanks for the insult. Do you usually insult people that you cannot debate with in a reasoned way?

PS If you are not Muslim, why then do you defend and I assume, approve of sex with little nine year old girls?