U.S. Government's Elevation of Sudan's Slavery Status Challenged

Re: "... (Switzerland, Israel, Chile, Hungary and Greece are among the Tier II states.)"

I couldn't find the article - but WTF is the above about. Switzerland, Israel, Chile, etc.?

This shows how stupid this world is. Comparing sudan to Switzerland, which is arguably peace capital of the world.

Instead of elevating the Sudan, at a time when even the U.N. officials on the spot are warning of mass-murder continuing in the Sudan, the Americans should be describing the Sudan accurately, and to plan to seize the south and Darfur, in order to bring, not "democracy" with all the trimmings in time for the holiday season, but rather a referendum, by which the inhabitants of the southern half of the Sudan (where the oil is) and Darfur (where oil and gas is believed to be retrievable), can vote on whether they wish to separate from those who have been killing them, starving them, driving them off their land, in the south for 20 years, and in Darfur for, so far, only 3, and are almost done.

Even a few thousand American troops will be surrounded by grateful black Africans in both places, pictures of certifiably third-world victims, very black, of Islam and Arabs, which will make an impression even among readers of The Guardian.-- will make an impression. And since it is important to help non-Muslims up and down black Africa, to feel that they are supported by the powerful, and that they can not only resist, but push back the Arab Muslims, whose attitude toward blacks remains that of the slavers (as anyone spending time in the Arab countries knows, and as Malcolm X picked up in Algeria, the most open, unapologetic, unembarrassed anti-black racism is that among the Arabs).

Muslims carry in their heads, as non-Muslims do not, mental maps of the world in which Muslim countries, or countries where Islam is coming to dominate more and more, are carefully delineated. They are in a war to control all of black Africa; their weapons are mostly Da'wa but military suppression of Christians by Muslims, most explosively in Nigeria, where in 1969, in the Ahiara Declaration, Col. Ojukwu railed against the "jihad" that was being conducted against the Christian, chiefly Ibo, tribes, and which led to the declaration of Biafran independence, and to the Biafran War.

It is of great practical, and symbolic importance, for the non-Muslims in the Sudan to be able to be freed, permanently, from those who have no intention of, permanently, treating them decently. Of course there is that "treaty," and of course this or that Sudanese Muslim ruler can smile and promise this or that to powerful Westerners in order to buy time (and in Darfur, enough time has been bought to continue driving people off the land, into the desert of Chad, or to simply rape, loot, and kill them outright).

And such a move would not only hearten black Christians all over Africa. It might also have salutary results, in the campaign to resist that most insidious instrument of the Jihad to spread Islam -- Da'wa -- within Dar al-Harb, the Lands still controlled by the Infidels.

Muslims, all of whom are supposed to engage in missionary work to spread Islam, have identified, among the Infidels, populations of the economically marginal which are thought to be especially vulnerable to Da'wa, the Call to Islam. And once someone has joined Islam, not only has that person left the Army of the Infidels, but has joined the Army of Islam. Islam as a vehicle for those already alienated from the larger society, a vehicle in which one is offered a ride, and once you have hopped aboard, you find the driver may be taking you in a direction, and to a destination, of which you were unaware and had not intended. But it is too late, and the car is going so fast you cannot hop off or jump out. What better way to immunize large numbers of black Americans or black English than to show, as vividly as possible, the Arab oppressors and slavers, in their true colors, and the American soldiers (among whom, of course, there will be black soldiers and officers) rescuing the obviously thankful inhabitants of the Sudan and Darfur? And how would the Arab League handle that public-relations nightmare? Would it demand the divine right to keep blacks suppressed? Even at the U.N. that would not go over well.

That this is not being considered, is one more reflection on the terrible misallocation of resources in this obstinate insistence by this far-from-cunning and far-from-ruthless and far-from-brilliant Administration, to make Iraq hold together rather than dissolve, as morally it deserves to, as geopolitically rightly informed Infidels should wish it to. For the aim from here on out should be not to make the world of Islam happier, more secure, and even more Islamic (as Iraq will necessarily become, or has already become, in most of the country), but rather to divide, demoralize, and bring into disrepute (as would happen if the Americans went into the southern Sudan and Darfur only in order to rescue, and obviously so, its black inhabitants from the Arab Musliims who have been massacring them at will, and if they could, would renew such massacres whenever the outside world ceased to pay attention).

Political leaders determinedly stuck to the tarbaby in Iraq, who insist on putting all of America's anti-Jihad efforts there because that's who they came to the dance with, that's the girl what brung 'em, the girl called Iraq the Model, flouncing around down some imaginary runway and fluttering her pasted-on eyelashes, or possibly Miss Democracy Is On the March, a bit more demure and serious (she's wearing glasses, and though she cannot read she is staring intently at a copy of the Iraqi Constitution, held upside-down). And in all this, no one in the government has explained how even the sunniest and stablest of democracies would, could, might somehow affect the islamization of Europe, the persecution and murder of non-Muslims by Muslims in Bangladesh, Indonesia, and in a a few dozen other countries, or world-wide Muslim terrorism that is based on passages, read and not misread, in Qur'an and Hadith and Sira.

No one in the Administration has asked, or even been asked (what's wrong with everyone?) how it is that Iraq the Model, where Sunnis would be dispossessed of what for other Sunnis has been their divine right to rule, appropriate for themselves most of the oil revenues, and to deal harshly with Shi'a and Kurds without a syllable of protest from any Sunni Arab state or group or individual, could possibly appeal to those Sunni Arabs who are a majority in all the Arab states except Iraq, and are unlikely to regard Shi'a-dominated Iraq as a model of anything. No one in the Administration has asked, or even been asked (what's still wrong with everyone?), how it is that Democracy, even if it were not the farcically primitive kind where one group, the Shi'a, does as its told (and votes), because it can count more heads, and another group, the Sunnis, do as they are told (either to abstain, or to vote "No") in order to keep from losing power and above all, the oil revenues that the Sunnis, living on land that possesses no oil, nonetheles controlled for the entire history of modern Iraq, would somehow lessen both the menace, and the power, the Da'wa and the demographic weapon, of Islam, both among Muslims who will continue to see nothing wrong with Islam (for the Infidels help to prop Islam up, help Muslims never to have to confront, as the Soviet Communists confronted, the clear connection between their belief-system and the political, economic, social, and intellectual failures that come from it, but remain for Muslims, if not for most of those who had to endure Soviet Communism, entirely attributable to Infidel others, America or Israel, or the West, or Crusaders, or all Infidels everywhere.

It is interesting to compare the heartening and superior performance, in every sense, of American soldiers, who have learned to adjust, to be flexible, to respond to new situations and new information. It is the soldiers who learned how to Home-Depot their way through the lack of appropriate armor on their vehicles, and to affix effective if jerry-built home-made armor. It is the soldiers who have figured out, for they were told nothing about Islam, that the majority of Iraqis are not grateful to them, and despite the massive Works Progress Administration, the hospitals, schools, water treatment plants, and so on, and espite those soccer balls and toys and candy handed out to the Iraqi children (not yet completely islamized, so still able to regard the Infidels, if they are young enough, with enthusiasm and not ill-concealed contempt or hatred -- but even the young teenagers are old enough to enjoy dancing deliriously around a burned-out helicopter or tank, with the American corpses still inside). Yes, the American soldiers have done very well, and especially well when one realizes that they have been given an impossible and a thankless (in all senses) task.

One cannot say the same for their political leaders. Perhaps, just perhaps, a bit more is now understood about Iraq than was understood before the invasion. Perhaps that absence of real gratitude, that realization that for most Iraqis it is their own family, or their own tribe, that matters -- certainly any American soldiers who have had to deal with them and keeps his eyes and mind open has learned that -- has been grasped. Perhaps it has been grasped that the phrase "Iraqi people" is hollow, and that the divisions between Kurd and Arab, or between Sunni and Shi'a Arab, long predate -- by centuries, by nearly a thousand years -- the very existence of the United States of America. Perhaps by now someone has had a chance to dip inito Gertrude Bell, or read Philip Ireland. Perhaps someone had the bright idea to begin as well to read up on Islam, instead of making plans to invite (as Bernard Lewis suggested) Prince Hassan of Jordan to become a new Hashemite (Sunni) monarch of Iraq. Perhaps, just perhaps, copies of "Eurabia" have begun to be pondered, and the hard understanding of what Islam teaches, and what many, even most, even "moderrate" Muslims believe, or in a New York minute could persuade themselves to believe, and certainly they defend Islam in a way that only makes it harder for unwary Infidels to become less wary, which itself aids and abets the Jihad to spread Islam everywhere.

There is a limit to the indulgence of Americans, including that of those, perhaps especially those, who know what Islam is all about, who are for getting out of Iraq not in order to appease Islam, but to more cleverly and variously confront, constrain, and where possible, repel it. That limit has been reached. More than reached. The continued refusal to figure things out, the laziness of our political leaders, as compared to the energetic ingenuity and ability to adapt of our soldiers, regular and citizen army, astounds and dismays. Those who obstinately refuse to learn, to be flexible, to adapt to new understandings, and thereby squander lives, money, materiel, and morale -- civilian and military -- in pursuing exactly the wrong goal, in exactly the wrong way, in Iraq, deserve to be turned out of office. For at the very beginning of what is a war without end, to constrain Islam, they are showing, by their determined failure to comprehend, that they are willing to forego the opportunities to exploit the two most important natural fissures within Islam -- the sectarian (Sunni and Shi'a) and the ethnic (Arab and non-Arab)-- that Infidels have no business trying to patch up, make up. Quite the reverse.

Wow... it's amazing the extent to which Saudi influence has spread in DC, isn't it?

johnb:

I'd suspect that the reference to Israel as Tier II has to do with the scandalous importation of women from former East European Communist block of countries to serve as prostitutes. Can't comment on the other Tier II countries.

kj:

Don't forget one little thing with your Saudi theory: if anyone was getting the middle finger big time in the invasion of Iraq, it was the Saudis, with their fear of being caught up in the so-called Shiite crescent of Iraq, Iran and KAS's eastern provinces (where all of the oil reserves lie).

It smells to high heavens, but it could have as much to do with the general Arabist tendencies at State as anything else.

We (America) should have been in a war against slavery long before we got into a war on terror or a war on drugs. Where is the war against slavery?

Yeah, right Waterdragon. The Saudis weren't threatened by Iraq. Saddam never threatened Saudi. Saddam never invaded Saudi, Kuwait, or Iran. Saddam was a threat only to America. Saddam's nuke-you-lur arsenal was a serious threat to America, and the 2000 (and counting) Soldiers and Marines killed in Iraq have died out of urgent necessity to protect America.

And Iraq is going to be a democracy.

And we need SDI.

And the Tooth Fairy loves you.

And J. Edgar Hoover wasn't gay.

And Islam is a religion of peace, with a long, noble history of tolerance and good-naturedness.

And the best person to sit on the highest court in the land--in the world, even--is Harriet Miers, who's never judged a single case.

Just keep repeating the mantra... you'll be alright.

Oh, an what a big middle finger Bush gave the Saudis when he took them off the slavery list. And when they were put on the WTO. And when King Faud got his kisses and hand-in-hand tour of a gen-you-wine western cowboy ranch.

Okay.

kj:

You miss my point. The Saudis preferred that Saddam stay in power because Saddam kept the Shias down.

One of the most obvious outcomes of ousting Saddam would be the ascendancy of Iraqi Shias, leaving the Saudis even more hemmed in by empowered Shias who might be very highly disposed toward helping their brothers is Saudi Arabia's eastern provinces fight the Wahhabs. Hence the term: Shia crescent -- a broad sweep taking in Iran, Iraq and the eastern provinces of Saudi Arabia.

Hugh posted

Even a few thousand American troops will be surrounded by grateful black Africans in both places, pictures of certifiably third-world victims, very black, of Islam and Arabs, which will make an impression even among readers of The Guardian.-- will make an impression. And since it is important to help non-Muslims up and down black Africa, to feel that they are supported by the powerful, and that they can not only resist, but push back the Arab Muslims, whose attitude toward blacks remains that of the slavers

Not a chance. For the last three decades or more, the US and the UK have consistently sided with muslim aggression aginst non-muslims.
Have_mercy's posts show the depth of this dhimmitude. This administration is really much worse then previous ones as it is in a post-9/11 environment, and no excuses of ignorance of islam, jihad etc can be used in mitigation.

Sacranie, Yassin and Gandhi

So Sacranie thinks that Sheikh Yassin is like Gandhi? Being unsure how much Sacranie actually knows about Gandhi, I thought I would take this opportunity to follow his lead and compare the lives — and sayings — of the two men in question.

http://mcbwatch.blogspot.com/

What percentage of people in southern Sudan are Moslem?

There are a couple of big hurdles between current policy and the kind of reformed policy Hugh calls for:

1) The State Department's workforce, its ideology, and the willingness of these public employees to let personal ideology dictate pubilc policy by way of usurpation.

2) The CIA's workforce, its ideology, and the willingness of these public employees to let personal ideology dictate pubilc policy by way of usurpation.

One of the most obvious outcomes of ousting Saddam would be the ascendancy of Iraqi Shias, leaving the Saudis even more hemmed in by empowered Shias who might be very highly disposed toward helping their brothers is Saudi Arabia's eastern provinces fight the Wahhabs. Hence the term: Shia crescent -- a broad sweep taking in Iran, Iraq and the eastern provinces of Saudi Arabia.- Posted by: waterdragon52

And to this add the central asian countries with mainly shia populations, and Pakistan. It is time for the Shia to be in control of mecca. So they might as well start sorting ownership claims as soon as possible and we get to know which is the true islam. The sunni ripp4ed the shia off their rights.

Any mossie or apologist saying otherwise is insulting that holy prophet who said only 1 `true` islam would survive.
The greatest respect non-muslims can show muslims is to help the furtherance of this so muslims can find the true being within themselves.

And dat is the root cause and its treatment.

as to smuggling women for prostitution purposes into Israel, local criminal gangs are of course involved, but don't forget that in the past few years these women have been smuggled over the border from Egypt by Badawin tribesmen. Are the Egyptian authorities unaware? I am fed up with the government like many Israelis, but the police and border guard have been making an effort to stop this smuggling, as far as I know.

As to dp111 claiming that UK and USA have supported Muslim aggression against non-Muslims. In general this is true going back to at least 1922 when Britain, France, Italy, USA, USSR [yes, USSR] supported the massacres and ethnic cleansing perpetrated by Ataturk's Turkish nationalist forces against Armenians and Greeks [in Smyrna]. Today, the BBC makes pro-PLO, pro-Hamas propaganda. There is nothing new under the sun.