Australian authorities have been tightlipped concerning the target of the attack which was apparently thwarted by arrests made last week. Now, we may know, from Reuters:
Eight Sydney men arrested on terrorism charges may have been planning a bomb attack against the city's nuclear reactor, police said on Monday.Their Islamic spiritual leader, also charged with terrorism offences, told the men if they wanted to die for jihad they should inflict "maximum damage," according to a 21-page police court document.
The document outlines how the men, arrested last week in the nation's biggest security swoop, bought chemicals used in the London July 7 bombs, had bomb-making instructions in Arabic and videos entitled "Sheikh Osama's Training Course" and "Are you ready to die?"
Under the heading "Targets," police said three of the men were stopped near Sydney's Lucas Heights nuclear reactor in December 2004. A security gate lock had recently been cut.
Oh, how I long for the kindler, gentler days of the United States and Soviet Union sitting on high alert waiting for the "go" to start a giant thermonuclear war. At least we knew mostly adults were in charge who planned for a future on this world.
As if we needed any more reminders of the perfidy of this ideology.... This is a truly chilling reminder nevertheless...
I would ask -- if this is the threat we face in the West by allowing Muslims into our homelands -- if this is what happens when they are welcomed among us -- is it worth tolerating ANY Muslim presence in our midst?
If someone from the Muslim community is likely or inevitably going to perpetrate culture shattering events such as 9/11 or much worse, culture annihilating events such as nuclear/dirty bomb/biological attacks, then I must ask the question: why would we tolerate ANY Muslim on our soil... ?
What benefit accrues to our society? If part of the deal of welcoming Muslims includes welcoming abominations such as the pious fanatical Muslim terrorist, then I don't see much value in having ANY Muslims immigrate here -- PERIOD...!
I no longer give a damn about their human rights -- they aren't willing to fight seriously for them in the Muslim lands where they are most curtailed, and instead focus all their hatred ire and demands on our societies when we are generous towards them -- ENOUGH!!!!!!!!!!
How does it come to pass that Muslims are so filled with rage and accusations of "Islamophobia" "racism" and "intolerance" in our lands, where they have been welcomed and received staggering benefits and rights which are COMPLETELY ABSENT in their Muslim shit holes of origin...
How does it come to pass that WE are the recipients of all their feral hatred, their endless protests and demands, their endless diatribes and finger jabbing lectures, their Islamic fury and rage....?
It is becoming incredibly clear that it is extremely difficult for non-Muslims to distinguish the "moderate" from the "fanatic" in the Muslim community... This is not just an "infidel" problem, as the vast majority of Muslims in the West seem to think -- they sit by, accuse all efforts of being motivated by "racism" and "Islamophobia" -- We all see that Muslim efforts to root out the evil in their midst is null... In fact, they seem far more likely to hamper these efforts, and when not hampering or slandering, they are content to sit idly by and watch with smug smiles as we frantically try to avoid the next Muslim atrocity...
Some questions loom larger and larger in my mind as I reflect on the Muslim community, their attitudes about anti-terrorism, and their continued disavowals of the link between Islam and terrorism --
Here are some of the things I'm wondering -- they just won't go away...
Why should we welcome Muslims of ANY stripe into our midst if part of the deal means importing terrorists?
Muslims regularly fail to leave their Islamic fascist ideals, their tribal hatreds and barbaric customs behind when they immigrate. Why should we be forced to put up with their antisocial and unacceptable behavior? Why does this become a problem the West must somehow solve for them? And why should we be expected to welcome ANY Muslims under ANY circumstances if this it the kind of baggage they bring?
Every Muslim community seems to be fertile recruiting ground for terrorists, yet the Muslim community continues to miss the terrorists in their midst. Why shouldn't we protect ourselves from the inevitability of Muslim horrors by simply expelling or interring ALL of them?
Why does the Muslim community deny any link between Islam and terrorism despite the jaw dropping and obvious correlation between the two? Muslim denials in this regard are patently incredible statements, yet we hear it again and again... WHY SHOULD WE TRUST ANYTHING MUSLIMS SAY???
The Muslim community seems to have great difficulty rooting out the "extremists" in their midst. WHY?
Do so called "moderate" Muslims sympathize with the "extremist?" Is the only real difference between a "moderate" and an "extremist" a difference of willingness to act on one's beliefs? i.e. the "moderates" just sympathize with terrorism, while the terrorists are willing to actually kill and die for this belief...
Are there really "moderates" in Islam at all?
If not, why continue to use the rubric of "moderate" and "extremist?"
Why is Islamic radicalism an axiomatic manifestation of Islam everywhere in the world?
I am really getting tired of hearing our leadership match the Muslim's own rhetoric, denial for denial, lie for lie, when it comes to the obvious links between Islam and violence, hatred, and terrorism....
And I think the smug Muslims who reside in Western lands, blithe and convinced that they cannot be touched -- convinced that they are safe and beyond accountability -- the complacent or complicit in their support for Islamic Jihad -- might well consider their real position in the West...
The tolerance of Westerners is being sorely tested. Muslim abuses of our tolerance is wearing thin, EVERYWHERE... Muslim, I say to you:
If you don't embrace the perfidy of CAIR, or MSA -- then why are you silent? If they and other hate groups are perverting your beliefs and sullying your religion, then why are you silent? How are we to interpret the silence of the so-called "moderate" Muslims in our midst? How can we understand your unwillingness to speak out and marginalize your radicals, even here, where we have provided a free speech forum for you to speak out ??? If not here, WHERE? If not now, WHEN?
Increasingly it becomes more and more difficult to believe in the existence of the "moderate" Muslim -- I see little evidence for it, and many signs that there is no such thing, or that signs of moderation are really tainted by subterfuges and deceptions...
I suggest that "moderates" in Islam begin to make their voices heard, if such voices exist -- We are listening -- we are waiting -- so far there is no sound -- so far we wait in vain...
How long do you think we will have patience with you, "moderate" Muslim??? -- How long do you think we will listen to your silence, your denials?
This possible attack in Australia shows us the validity and international success that Al Qaeda and its operatives have thus possessed. Al Qaeda has now become a prime example for other terrorist organizations to follow. Bin Laden resembles the succesful icon Donald Trump in the terrorist world. This possible attack should make intelligence communites realize that they need to work together with each other on sharing information, and ot just within the United States government, but rather with other governmental agencies throughout the world. They will not stop as we have seen. We must use this possible threat in Australia as a prime example of catching possible terrorist threats earlier (almost an unheard of scheme).
Agree. What do the non Muslim majority Taxpayers get for their money in huge increased security payments,extra police & intelligience experts needed etc
whilst threat of Jihadists in every country increases daily?? Moderate Muslims - Ho Hum. ISLAM IS A VIOLENT MURDEROUS IDEOLOGY. There are millions of Eastern Europeans of Christian & atheist views who would only be too happy to come to the West and would fit in with our societies. Who would be loyal and fight for their new countries. What about all the persecuted Christians living in Middle East, Indonesia and Asia going in daily fear of their lives? THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO ADMIT VAST NUMBERS OF MUSLIMS WHO OPENLY PROCLAIM THEIR AIM IS TO TAKE OVER OUR COUNTRIES AND KILL US.
Targeting Nuclear Plants now?
8[)/\/\8 7#[)$3 /\/\(]+#3|2 |=|_|(|
oops... that last part was cut off. It was |( 3|2$.
Just to add what jsla said.
We are expected to open up our doors and except Muslims into our country and make accomodations to their beliefs!
This is obviously no recriprocated in the vast majority of Muslim countries where it is against the law to practice other faiths. Christians can and have been killed just for sharing their faith in Saudi Arabia as well as other countries.
I know that in America we believe in the free exercise in religion but we do not have to let them in if they weren't born there.
I have asked the few Muslim friends that I have that immigrated here about why they haven't spoken up about the extremism and mostly they have nothing to say except that Muslims are to not fight Muslims where the infidels are concerned.
They can fight wars against each other but must defend the faith if challenged by an infidel even if the Muslim is wrong. I am sure that there are soem Muslims out there that disagree with this statement but where are they?
I do not see them either speaking out and taking action!
If you Muslims want to convince us that you do not believe in terrorism than take action en masse, then and only then will I believe that we can live peacefully in the end together.
jsla posted: I would ask -- if this is the threat we face in the West by allowing Muslims into our homelands -- if this is what happens when they are welcomed among us -- is it worth tolerating ANY Muslim presence in our midst?
I have been writing on LGF since 9/11, that we are now in a state of perpetual war with a fifth column that is increasing in numbers by the day. This is not going to stop this side of Judgement Day, or total victory, with ethnic cleansing or dhimmitude for the losers.
Muslims in our midst are causing a severe dislocation in society, in fact they have virtually destabilised it. The costs in terms of security and damage to the economy is so great, that it does not bear thinking about. The damage to our freedoms, such as freedom of expression, can have no value put on it.
Yet we hear the constant refrain that we need immigrants to bolster the labour force. In Britain, over half the muslim population is unemployed and gathering benefits. Eventually they will retire from this occuptaion and be eligible for pensions.
What a mess our ignorant politicians have got us into.
Im4America: I am sure that there are soem Muslims out there that disagree with this statement but where are they? I do not see them either speaking out and taking action!
You will see them when the going really gets tough for muslims in America.
jsla....Well said! The sound of silence is deafening.
Thanks Gods, they were arrested. What's wrong with Islam?
The crescent of fear - Rod Liddle
http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php?table=§ion=&issue=2005-11-12&id=6899
Hey, if these muslim f#$%ers mess with western nuclear weapons plants, then I am afraid we are obliged to liquidate mecca and medina...during the hajj....with H-bombs.
DP111,
The Washington Times had an article yesterday about the rise of Le Pen in France.The article also contains information that the head of one of the French television networks played down the rioting for fear of the rise of the right wing to power in France.This executive said he did not want the right to rise to power in France because he showed a burning car on television.So you have the case of one executive admitting that rather then report the news he seeks to shape the news for political reasons.
As well as
It’s the demography, stupid - Mark Steyn
http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php?issue=2005-11-12&id=6901
and their thug friends who attacked camera crew
will be charged, say police..
http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,17195386%5E2862,00.html
The above article by Mark Steyn is the most hard hitting and pessimistic that has come from his pen.
templar:
"I am afraid we are obliged to liquidate mecca and medina"
I disagree. Retaliation in such an extreme manner, especially when no attack has actually occurred would simply have the effect of enraging a large population of the world. The lack of condemnation from the muslim communities in response to the daily atrocities carried out in the name of Islam is indeed worrying but steps are being made. There is no quick and simple solution, and the long term effects of an attack on mecca/medina need to be taken into account.
The other side of this argument is that a terrorist group is unlikely to consider such implications if they were to obtain such a weapon.
jsla:
"is it worth tolerating ANY Muslim presence in our midst?"
I believe that it is necessary to tolerate some muslim presence if simply to encourage debate to reform amoung so-called moderates. There have been numerous requests for moderate muslim to make themselves heard to no avail but the pressure from within their communities needs to be considered.
We are beggining to hear statements condeming violence from a number of prominent immam's and lobby groups and whilst it is currently nowhere near enough, I believe this will increase over time.
Removing all muslims from Western societies would have te short term effect of making us all feel safer and more secure, those that are trying to speak out against the violent nature of islam would be prevented from doing so.
Roxanne
I read about this self-censorship elsewhere, and it again crops up in the Spectator magazine.
There are 3 articles worth reading in this issue of the Spectator.
otterfisher
These thugs are brave when they are in gang, just as they are when assaulting a couple of girls. If we really hit them hard, you will find these erstwhile jihadis crawling for mercy. Just mention deportation and their blood will cold.
To paraphrase Churchill, "They are either at your throat or at your feet".
Nqamah Ben Mavet: There are many on here who are actually adults and can't read the cult language of geeks and gamers, so could you please translate
the following which you posted
8[)/\/\8 7#[)$3 /\/\(]+#3|2 |=|_|(| |( 3|2$.
Posting scribble like this is tantamount to holding your head under water while talking..a waste of effort if it is not received and compreheneded.
Thanks
Angry Muppet: I believe that it is necessary to tolerate some muslim presence if simply to encourage debate to reform amoung so-called moderates. There have been numerous requests for moderate muslim to make themselves heard to no avail but the pressure from within their communities needs to be considered.
In the final analysis it is the demography.
So let us consider the hypothetical situation that ALL muslims at present living in the West, accepted the call to clean up their communities of extremism. They even went further and made the changes in their teachings of the koran and the jihad. Such an outcome would no doubt come as a relief to many on this site and elsewhere. But I counter, that all such changes were being done merely to protect the ummah while it grows at ever increasing pace in the West. Once a near majority is achieved, that future generation of muslims will simply revoke any changes and return to the traditions of the unchanging and unchangeable koran ie the "canonical texts" as Hugh puts it. They will even praise this generation of muslims for having done what was necessary to protect islam.
Islamic ideologues take the long view - in several decades or more. It is only right that we as well consider options keeping in mind islam's long-term goals.
Separation from islam and muslims is the only answer. Such a course will give ample time for muslims to reflect on the failure of their societies, while the the population swells to an extent that it cannot be fed.
I see no reason why we should be blown up, murdered, assaulted etc, just to give muslims the chance to reform. Besides, it will not happen unless they have an incentive to do so.
otterfish:
They have been charged this morning...
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17251919-29277,00.html
Five charged over court brawl
FIVE men allegedly involved in a brawl with media outside the Melbourne Magistrates' Court have been charged with affray.
DP111:
Paraprased: Reform will not happen unless they have an incentive to do so.
You are correct. Also right about the ummah likely to revert to "canonical texts" once a near majority is reached. What needs to be done is to make them realise that the basis of their beliefs will need to be looked at from the perspective of the 21st century.
My initial point in response to templar was that H-bombs over mecca/medina wont really do all that much to give them the incentive needed to make the necassary changes.
"I see no reason why we should be blown up, murdered, assaulted etc, just to give muslims the chance to reform. Besides, it will not happen unless they have an incentive to do so."
And I heartily agree -- Why is this OUR burden ? Especially when we see so little evidence that they are willing to fight for reform and for rights.
Daily Muslims are tortured, mangled, suppressed, oppressed, and maltreated in Muslim lands, but they are overwhelmingly SILENT... Yet let one fabricated and absurd story be told about "Koran flushing" or some other hysterical trash, and they are murdering and rampaging in 40 Muslim countries across the globe.
They don't consider our largesse and sacrifices for them as something worthy of gratitude or reciprocity -- They simply think it is Allah's gift to them through the mechanism of ignorant infidels -- Haven't you ever noticed that their contempt and hatred for us seems to be directly related to the amount of money and assitance we have funneled towards their society? Why is this?
thanks angrymuppet, made my day..best part is ,the charge apparently and explicitly mentions
causing "terror" to others...no pussy-footin'..
"Affray was an offence under Victoria's Crimes Act (1958) and carried a penalty of up to five years in jail.
It was an indictable offence and was regarded as more serious than the charge of unlawful assault, the spokesman said.
The charge covered the actions of one or more people that caused "terror" to others"
DP111 - God bless The Spectator, and all who read it.
That Eurabia series of articles was superb.
Angry Muppet:
You are wrong about Mecca. After 9/11 we could have cleaned up, but all the looney lefties and the Muhammedan PR-brigades were up in arms about the "backlash" before there was one.
If indeed the center of terrorism, Mecca (and Medina) were erased from the Arab desert, we would see that Mohammedans the world over would have to look for a new "Allah"- because they believe that "Allah" protects these "holy places".
If these places happen to be gone, Allah obviously has no balls, (cojones, power) and being obsessed with superstition like Mohammedans are, they would have to look for a new "Allah".
By myself I would be -somehow- worried if a billion + ex-mohammedans would suddenly be on their knees and pray to George W. Bush, because he has proven himself to be stronger than the moon-god.
I think I'm getting carried away...
Mohideen: What say you?
They called them vicious, cowardly thugs!!! In a newspaper!!!
No "we have to understand their FEEEEEELINGS PC multiculturalist bs".
I just LOVE Aussies.
sheik yer'mami:
I don't think that the destruction of mecca/medina will have the effect you say. Do you really think that the Arab world could be made to look for a new 'Allah' just because two cities have been reduced to rubble?
The location of these places will remain. They will still be mecca & medina. I could almost guarantee that it would only serve to strengthen the hatred of the west and non-muslims in general.
As far as Allah not protecting these places, there will be a reason why he has allowed them to fall. There is always a reason, and it is never the fault of a muslim.
Mecca/Medina may well be the spiritual center for islam but I don't think this translates to them being the centre of world terrorism. We have moved beyond that point in time.
Good that these "scum" have been arrested. I hope they deport them and their families.
As for those who had plans to destroy a nuclear facility - this is really an attempted nuclear attack. At the least, the entire ummah in Melbourne should be deported forthwith. That BTW, is the least that Canberra should do, given the nature of the planned attack. This is war and the judiciary should play no role in it.
Why are we pussyfooting around with these people. What exactly are these muslims bringing to our societies that make them so desirable? Are they some kind of cross that we have to bear to prove our humanity and worth? A trial of our resilience? What?
OK, I have written that muslims are the first victims of islam. That is true, but if they want help from us to be free, then nuclear terrorism is not the way to ask.
Ernest Renan was right saying -"Muslims are the first victims of Islam. Many times I have observed in my travels in the Orient, that fanaticism comes from a small number of dangerous men who maintain the others in the practice of religion by terror. To liberate the Muslim from his religion is the best service that one can render him."
Can't read spectator.Can you post the whole texts of above articles?
Are there really "moderates" in Islam at all?
This is a Western invention - moderate Muslim. This describes the non-exploding Muslim. The one who looks and acts "moderate" to us - law-abiding, polite, friendly, nice, doing normal things like dropping their kids off at school, shopping, etc. The ones who smile and assure us "Islam is peace" (but ask them the definition of their "peace"). The ones who smile and assure us "the extremists are not Muslims, they are perverting Islam". They are the vanguard. The PR front office. The glossy tourist brochure. The facade.
But as one of their spokesmen says, to be called a moderate Muslim is an insult, same as being called a moderate intellect. The moderate Muslim's actions might look moderate, but what's in their head and heart, is far from moderate.
"ALL OF THESE WERE posted by: AngryMuppet
1 - The lack of condemnation from the muslim communities in response... but steps are being made
2 - We are beggining to hear statements condeming violence from a number of prominent immam's and lobby groups
3 - Removing all muslims from Western societies... (but)those that are trying to speak out against the violent nature of islam would be prevented from doing so
4 - Mecca/Medina may well be the spiritual center for islam but I don't think this translates to them being the centre of world terrorism. We have moved beyond that point in time"
NOW, LISTEN HERE ANGRY LITTLE MUPPET,
FIRSTLY: CAN YOU SUBSTANTIATE YOUR CLAIMS IN NO 1-3 ABOVE, ABOUT MUSLIMS SPEAKING OUT AGAINST TERRORISM? CAN YOU QUOTE EVEN ONE EXAMPLE OF STEPS BEING TAKEN, OR STATEMENTS MADE?... I DON'T THINK YOU CAN!
SECONDLY: IN NO 4 YOU IMPLY THAT YOU ARE A MUSLIM BY SAYING "we...."
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN WE HAVE A MUSLIM IN THE HOUSE AND HIS/HER NAME IS AngryMuppet!!!
THIRDLY: WHAT DOES THE 'ppet' IN YOUR NAME STAND FOR?
AngryMuppet, are you perhaps an AngryMu(slim)?
P.S. I DON'T MIND IF YOU ARE A MOZZIE, BUT DON'T HIDE BEHIND TAQIYYA, AND LIE LIKE THE REST OF THEM. STAND UP FOR WHAT YOU BELIEVE IN, EVEN IF YOU CAN'T BLOW YOURSELF UP IN THIS FORUM! HAHA ANGRY MOZZIE, YOU DIDN'T FOOL ME!
to angry muppet,
I DID NOT mean that we should attack mecca and medina now.
However, I strongly believe that a nuclear, chemical, or biological attack by Islamic terror forces on a Western city- Auckland, New York , Tel Aviv -should GUARANTEE a nuclear response on Mecca.
Why do i say this? Am I a lunatc on the fringes?
No, I am not.
If the (former)Soviet union sent a force into the US to commit nuclear terror, we would retaliate against Moscow.
And, If North Korea put off a "dirty bomb" in New York, it would be Minuteman time for Pyongyang.
And, if the barbarians of Islam attack us in such a horrific manner, I would DEMAND that my government strike the capital of Islam, which is Mecca.
Angry muppet, do you understand that World War three is at hand, and the media will not say that it is so.
Strange times, No?
also, angry muppet you say that H-bombing Mecca would make the muslim world enraged? enraged? Angry.Hopeless. bitter. jealous. Apparently, these are the only emotions that arabs muslims are capable of.
When was the last time you hear about grateful muslims? you know, for the US defending their capital nation, saudi arabia, from Saddam. Or for Bill Clinton intervening in Bosnia.Or for Clinton/Bushes effort in trying to establish another terrorist state on the west bank.
Perhaps Arab muslims aren't capable of any emotion other than anger....but you know what - I am a gentle, well-educated, fairly well to do American, reared to respect liberal values- women, minority, even gay rights- AND I AM ENRAGED AT MUSLIMS!!! AND AIRHEAD LIBERALS WHO APOLIGIZE FOR THEM!! I had NEVER voted republican befor 9/11 and now I am not sure I will ever vote democrat again.World war three is at hand. Can't we at least admit that we are fighting it?
Templar - it is all moot.
The powers that be, be they Left or Right, have decided that "Islam is Peace". Hence when the “Peace Lovers” nuke us, we will not retaliate. Not until that is, that the “Powers that Be” are personally threatened.
History is littered with such cases. Unless the "Powers that Be" (and that isn't always the democratically elected government) are threatened, then there will be no retaliation on such a grand and massive scale.
There is a reason that our soldiers are training in urban warfare. The “Powers that Be” have decided that this Muslim threat is to exist within our societies for some time yet, regardless of the cost to every day infidels.
Here we see a perfect example of former humans converted by the "religion" ("Islam") of the anti-God into killer-Zombies.
The exchanges between these former human beings stationed in Australia in no way resembles any exchange between human beings that I have ever witnessed...
Yes, killer-Zombies, folks. Terrifying--and not for the reasons thought of by the imam/zombie-masters.
DiscipleofJesusChrist:
Your arrogant and condescending tone does absolutely nothing to help you or this discussion.
All my statements can be proven if you could be bothered to look. I agree that we still have a long way to go but there are signs of improvement. Allowing ourselves to fall into the 'crying wolf' game and ignoring all statements simply because they are made by a muslim means that genuine condemation and positive ideas will be missed. I feel that we should be assisting muslims to rid themselves of an evil and violent ideology in every way possible.
My comment of 'we' was meant to imply eveyone, muslim & non-muslim. I am not trying to fool anyone, my beliefs are unimportant in the context of this debate but I am offended at the suggestion I would want to blow myself up. I am just trying to promote debate and the fact that the only response you can articulate is labelling me a Muslim says more about you than I.
templar:
Sorry for misunderstanding your statement. I agree that WW3 may be here or just around the corner.
However, the idea of nuclear retaliation just seems horrifying to me. There must be a 'nicer' solution to this crisis. Why we should try to find 'nicer' methods when our enemy is decapitating school children is another argument altogether but we do not need to lower our standards simply to find common ground.
Of course, if nuclear attacks were to happen in the middle east in response to a similar attack on western interests I would certainly not lose any sleep over it.
AngryMuppet writes:
"However, the idea of nuclear retaliation just seems horrifying to me."
The idea of a retaliation, implying that another
Western city is hit, is certainly horrifying to me. But the idea of a first strike is not, not
any more.
"There must be a 'nicer' solution to this crisis."
Because you say so? Sorry, but it may be that the
alternatives are worse.
I though Tom Tancredo (the US pol who advocated
nuking Mecca in response to a mohammadan nuke strike) had his heart in the right place, but I'm
all for doing it now, since we were already attacked on 9/11. I'd actually go a bit further
than just sanitizing M&M, but since it is unfair to take advantage of Robert's absence and discuss such stuff that we know he doesn't advocate, it's
best to leave it at that.
In any case, every month brings another horrific mohammadan atrocity, and while you don't see it now, one day you'll come around to my way of thinking, and I'll see you when you get here!
Angry muppet
I herby propse a "nicer" solution to the conflict....
1. a SANE Immigation policy...Harvard university doesn't let every applicant in, and neither should the USA. We stop taking in arab Muslims. Period. Yes, its discriminatory. I want it.
2. The government infiltrates mosgues, muslim student groups, etc. I do not believe that they love America. They are a source for terrorists.
3. A Manhattan-project like attempt to wean ourselves off of foreign (ie Saudi)oil. Windmills, solar power, hybrids. Whatever it takes.
4. Legalize (or at least decriminalize) racial profiling. They target us for being non muslim, I demand my government put more resources on the muslims.
5. Prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. immeadeatly and by any means necessary.
6.Form a new alternative to the dangerous and corrupt United Nations. Maybe an upper house of the world composed only of democracies.
7. Form an anit -muslim military front.USA.Israel, India. Austrlia. Russia, and any European country that hasn't surrendered to the Arabs yet(NOT FRANCE!!!)
8. Make hate speech by imams a federal offense, and make incitment to jihad a capital crime. Yes Capital, as in DEATH PENALTY.
9. Put the option of a nuclear retaliation on mecca for a "dirty bomb" on the table (alright muppet, we disagree on this one, can get to it in committee.).
These reasonable steps are fair and will make AMERICANS safer.
I love America
I hate Islam
templar:
Wonderful suggestions. And a little more reasonable than the "you're a mozzie" response I had earlier.
It isn't that I am totally against violence or nuclear weapons, I just don't think that it should be our first option. Put it down the list as a last resort and I am satisfied.
Still hope it doesn't come to that though...
AngryMuppet,
I noticed you did not reply to the claim that you are a Muslim. Are you Muslim? If you are Muslim why did you not admit that when asked? Also if Muslims attack a Western city with a nuke why shouldn't a nuclear attack on Mecca or Media be a first option? It's my understanding that in the event of a nuclear attack the US policy is to respond (within minutes) with overwhelming force.Overwhelming force is used in order to render the enemy incapable of striking again.
JIHAD ALERT
templar:
Good suggestions, but I'd suggest that we don't
take in muslims period. Arab, Swedish, Chinese, Bosnian, ..., race is not the issue. If an Arab or Iranian or Chechen rejects Islam, I have no problem. I almost don't care what they reject it for; Atheism, Christianity, Bahai, whatever.
And as I said I'd go somewhat further than you on
point 9, preferring to ape OBL with multiple
simultaneous high value targets, but this time
geographically dispersed so that all of the OIC
states can be directly affected. In an asymmetric conflict, play to your strengths!
Oh yeah, God bless America! (yes, I include Atheists and Agnostics in that too ;-)
And God bless the entire Infidel world!
AngryMuppet:
You're a gentle soul, and that is good, the problem is that muslims are very bad. I value
people like you, because there is a great danger
that when we rise to fight the threat, that we
become like them. I think that's unavoidable,
as war is ugly, and it is won by doing ugly things. Calling forth "the dogs of war" from
our souls is a necessary evil. But we'll pull
them back when it is safe again.
Hi Roxanne.
I did not give a reply to the claim that I was a muslim because I didn't think it was relevant. I have been a longtime reader of JW/DW and have to come to rely on it as a valuable resource for info that is not always widely reported.
I thought that participating in the exchange of ideas in a relatively anonymous forum would help gain a greater understanding of current events and ideas. I (incorrectly) had the assumption that my age, sex, religion, polital persuasion, location and astrological sign were irrelevant.
I AM NOT A MUSLIM.
I hope that has cleared things up.
Now, as for your question as to why a nuclear attack on Mecca/Medina shouldn't be a first option. My point was that I am not conviced that it is the only option. It may come to that but I am optimistic that it can be avoided. I do not feel that Mecca/Medina would be high on the list of strategic targets, although they do have very high value as symbolic targets.
Although the widespread extermination of Islam would do wonders for peace and stability around the world they do NOT all deserve to die. I do not agree with the "hijacking/perversion of Islam" comments but not EVERY muslim is evil.
Wouldn't it help while discussing the Muslim Menace, especially in the context of high energy hijinks over M & M... to maybe tone it down a little? Don't get me wrong -- I sent $100 to Tancredo's campaign fund as soon as I heard his sensible and refreshing ideas, but maybe it's slightly premature at the moment and in this forum...
Posters probably know that this site appears to finally be gaining some serious traffic and Robert's heroic anti-Jihad word is beginning to filter out and spread. I sense the blinkers are starting to come off... finally...
And our Muslim friends are helping in every way they can: by continuing to wage their "internal struggle" and remain "moderate" and adhere to their religion of peace. They're doing the lion's share of work awakening the slumbering ones, who almost always prove to be better than their leaders, and always better than their silly media... Andecdotally, I'm having discussions nearly every day at the super market, with the mail man, with contractors, at shops, at work, at the garage, and the right things are being discussed and the right things are being said and the right things are beginning to be figured out -- That's my experience, at least...
We all know, even those posters who are pondering the structure of the atom and it's broad applications, that this common sense site must not begin to appear too extreme to the new readers -- And, it is a comfort to me to know that if certain measures eventually prove to be necessary -- I'm certain we'll make the right choice, and pick the right places and select exactly the right items to suit the various sites...
When our Muslim friends decided to fly those airplanes into our minds -- and got us pondering the blackness of their hearts and souls -- they couldn't have possibly known who they were coming up against... If they had known, they never would have dared...
Well said jsla. When the time comes I do have faith that the required action will be taken. But there is no need to give ammunition to those looking for it and there is no need to scare away those looking for the truth.
Perhaps a reason to worry about France. It is almost all nuclear. Everything a armed wing of islam could want. I think in the U.S. ,ALL nuclear sites & material should be under heavy military protection, if it is not done then we should not move forward with any more civil nuke programs. I look at France, very worrying...
Speaking of France here's an update on France from polipundit.
10 Nov 2005 - Paris - AP and Reuters reported that after the recent
rioting in Paris and other cities, the French government today raised
its terror alert level from RUN to HIDE on their four level danger
scale. The two higher French danger levels are SURRENDER and
COLLABORATE. The rise was precipitated by a fire yesterday, which
destroyed France’s white flag factory, effectively paralyzing their
military, according to informed sources
No one should mistakenly believe that the west isn't presently in WW-III because we sure as hell are. It just hasn't been officially declared.
Roxanne -- ABSOLUTELY HILARIOUS!
If the French do something right, it's only by sheer accident...
WW3 indeed. I've learnt a lot from JWs and elsewhere, mostly since 9/11, about Islam and how to deal with it. Don't encourage it. Don't appease it. Don't even say nice doggie. Rebuke it! Drive out the evil spirit! Say "no you are wrong!" and "no you can't have it!" Say "your Allah does not scare me!" even "get out, go away!" Spiritual babies understand this talk. We understood it when we were babies making unreasonable demands. This letter published was in The Australian today: WHILE Steve Bracks claims sedition laws breach freedom of speech, it was the Victorian Premier who brought in the religious vilification laws that completely gag anyone who dares to challenge Islamic propaganda or expose the real text of Islam. While the media happily print/show every piece of unchallenged Islamic propaganda, other views and any of the massive amount of text that underlies Islamic violence against non-Muslims, the repression of women or the aims of political Islam rarely appear. While many Muslims may ignore such text or want to hide it, others follow it exactly and teach it. Even if some Muslims are "offended", we must have the right to publicly challenge ideologies that threaten our society and our children's safety, equality, freedom and future. Do we really think that if we don't mention it, it will go away? I don't and I want my freedom of speech back. Attacking an ideology isn't an attack on individuals. The only way to stop the march of this frightening ideology is to expose its text and aims and show that they are unacceptable in our society.
"....Mecca/Medina may well be the spiritual center for islam but I don't think this translates to them being the centre of world terrorism. We have moved beyond that point in time..."
Posted by: AngryMuppet at November 14, 2005 08:12 PM
There is nothing "spiritual" in Islam. Its all in the flesh. Many "moderates" who went on a "hajj" to Mecca return as radicals, grow beards and start running around with kaftan and coffee-filter.
Yes we are at war: OBL, Zwahiri and Zarqawi and another million firebrand-clerics have declared war on the West long ago.
The Jihad is fought on many fronts from Indonesia to Chechnya and from Londonistan to "Al Andaluz", from Mindanao to Sweden and everywhere where Mohammedans have been allowed to settle.
In Australia they can out-breed us in 15 to 20 years time if the current laws are not changed. What happens then is what is happening in France now.
The "Muslim world" (I call it "planet Islam") is always "enraged".
Disengagement, internment, mass deportations would "enrage" them just like retaliation in any form "enrages" them. Disregard it.
We are expected to lay down and surrender and hand over the loot, if we don't, they are "enraged" and we are the enemies of
Allah.
I am an "enemy of Islam" and proud of it.
And all those hungry for "moderates denouncing terrorism"- don't hold your breath and ignore, I mean IGNORE what Muslims say: They always lie, it is their second nature. Just look at what they do and judge them on that. Nothing else.
There's a huge difference between the Islam of UBL and the Whabbist theology, in which he was raised. This is why wise politicians, security analysts, educators, and citizens alike always take pains to distinguish between one who might be an Islamist, in contrast to a *Jihadist*.
The Islamic world is not so monolithic. Characterizing the whole population based upon a violent and vocal splinter movement is simply wrong. Imagine if all Westerners were considered akin to Jerry Springer's guests and audience by the Eastern world. Or, all Americans are drug/alcohol-abusing, sex addicted, obese cowboys, right ?
rob@egoz.org
egoz07-
Please enlighten us as to how UBL's Islamic beliefs differ substantially from Wahhabi theology. Some of us were under the impression that he was raised and inculcated in Saudi Arabia, silly us!
Here's the links to the Spectator articles as requested by a poster above. You have to register (free) to access them. It's heartening to see terms like 'Eurabia' slipping into the (almost) mainstream! Remember, there's probably not a single Tory MP who does not read the 'Speccie'.
Cover Story: Crescent of fear - Rod Liddle (trailed as 'Eurabian Nightmare' on the front page)
http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php?table=§ion=&issue=2005-11-12&id=6899
Will London burn too? - Patrick Sookdheo
http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php?id=6900&issue=2005-11-12
It's the demography stupid - Mark Steyn
http://www.spectator.co.uk/article.php?id=6901&issue=2005-11-12
There's one or two more, but they are not available online.
I'll attempt to post an image of the front page below, if you can't see anything it obviously didn't work! If you're in the UK please go out and by the 'hard copy'. It will serve as an encouragement to produce more of the same!
Here's a link to the front page of the Spectator:
http://img470.imageshack.us/my.php?image=spectator4mk.jpg
I can tell that many of the posters on Australian issues have not read Mr. Spencer's book. Onward Muslim Soldiers is tough but informative. I urge you to read it if you want a better understanding of the situation we face. You will have many questions answered. Think of it as your own crystal ball. Events that would normally leave you shaking your head and muttering things like "Why would people do that?" will suddenly be clear to you.
Watching the Borg
- and understanding it...
jsla said:We all know, even those posters who are pondering the structure of the atom and it's broad applications, that this common sense site must not begin to appear too extreme to the new readers.
I agree.
AMerican said: war is ugly, and it is won by doing ugly things. Calling forth "the dogs of war" from our souls is a necessary evil. But we'll pull
them back when it is safe again.
I agree with that too. I must admit that following the global jihad can be depressing and rage-inducing. It is difficult not to become enraged at these animals and say things like
"annhilate mecca." However, we are OBLIGED to undertake ENLIGHTENED ACTION against these fools. Enlightened action comes from widom not hatred. It comes from a profound love and respect for the wonderful culture we have inherited from our forefathers. WE MUST DEFEND IT. WE MUST DIE FOR IT IF NECESSARY.But, as Christ said, we must also (at least try) to love our enemy.Thanks for the insight.
YW and thanks for yours.