While the more overt acts of religious intolerance in Indonesia, say the beheadings of Christian schools girls, garner the most attention, the steady but covert campaign to intimidate Indonesia’s Christian population continues with very little fanfare. The latest incarnation, from Voice of America:
Christian groups in Indonesia say their right to worship freely is being hindered by conservative Muslim groups that have forced more than 30 churches to close this year. However, Muslim groups charge that Christians are violating the law by using shops and houses as places of worship.As real estate it is not much. Wedged in beside a major highway, off a dirty little lane and behind a Muslim boarding school, it is hard to imagine that these two houses have become the focus of a dispute in the Jakarta suburb of Jatimulya.
Last month, a group of white-robed young men, wearing the peci caps of devout Muslims, arrived and blockaded the houses, which had been serving as the Jatimulya Protestant church.
A sign declares that the buildings were closed on behalf of local government, because nearby Muslim residents objected to the house being used as a place of worship. Under the law, religious groups must obtain permission from local residents before they can build a mosque or a church.
But Reverend Ana Nenoharan, the minister of the Jatimulya church, says it was not local residents, but students from a boarding school outside the suburb, who forced the church closed. She says that the closures are always done by outsiders, because her congregation knows all the Muslims in the area.
Christian groups say more than 30 churches have been forced to close in Indonesia over the past year. Most reportedly were intimidated by a group called the Anti-Apostasy Alliance. Their tactic is to accuse Christians of breaking the law by praying in unlicensed churches, and claiming that local Muslims object to the churches.
Maybe it's time the Christians started rioting and demand their rights. Seems to work for the Religion of Peace.
Indonesia like Pakistan has had a lot of largesse from our governments as well as charity from individuals. Yet our charity is used as another tool to persecute Christians.
If you intend to donate then please consider the Barnabus Fund, as this charity helps the most marginalised and persecuted people on this planet - Christians in muslim nations. I have been writing about this for over three years. If we cannot persuade our governments from giving away our money to muslim nations, the least we can do is to help the really persecuted.
On a slightly different note, this is a recent post on a BBCforum concerning causes and solutions to the Paris violence.
(It's clear that these people are not rioting for the sake of rioting, they are responding to oppression from French authorities.It's time for France to stop treating those poor, Muslim immigrants as second-class citizens. It's time to accept the only permanent solution - to partition France. It's time for an independent Muslim state to be created. Before this cycle of violence spreads throughout all of Europe, France needs to do the right thing.
Dim Rasp, Irkutsk Russia )
WHAT MORE CAN I SAY??!!!
Dim is right. He's dim.
Anyway, with regard to the thread, I thought that islam considered anywhere a place to worship this fictional 'allah' character. A ring of stones, a flat place in the earth, a small corner of the bowels of Hell - anything.
Apparently, that is not allowed for the dhimmi folk.
Prophet Geoff
... A ring of stones, a flat place in the earth, a small corner of the bowels of Hell - anything.
Next to an air intake vent at an NFL football game.
A ring of stones
Don't tell me that Islam is claiming Stonehenge now?
Absolutely, Granny, all places of blasphemous paganism and idolatry must be reverted to Islam. What's next, Graceland?
William the Crusader writes:
"Maybe it's time the Christians started rioting and demand their rights. Seems to work for the Religion of Peace."
The problem with your suggestion, William, is the
same as Ghandi's suggestion that the Jews should try
nonviolent resistance to the nazis. Mohammadans have
no notion of restraint, and will simply kill all of the rioters, and then use their widows and daughters as sex slaves.
Currently, people in the West have been restrained, but I suspect that a few attacks in the USA and we'll relearn the most fundamental of moral rules,
tit for tat. And when that time comes, we'll see
just how "impossible" it is to solve the problem of
the mohammadan fifth column.
I guess that hoping for the State Department to intervene would be naïve. This double standard has been going on far too long.I have noticed that another avian flu victim was in Indonesia...if only there was some way to keep an epidemic isolated to only one area.
Kind of makes one want to fly over Indonesia and drop down a ton or so of Piglets.
Many of us Americans are just waiting for the other shoe to drop..........and us Average Americans taking care of business here on our own soil.
Let the Games Begin!
OT: An oped in todays Times has criticized Bat Ye'or and paranoia about Eurabia.
The article is here:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22369-1872150_1,00.html
My reply to the writer is pasted below. Should anyone else feel the desire to write to David Aaronovitch, his email address is at the bottom of his article.
Dear Mr Aaronovitch,
While I can agree with you that the concept of 'Eurabia' as defined Bat Ye'or could be flawed. It is after all, a kind of conspiracy theory. I have not read the book and cannot judge. I have however, read other books written by her. They are well argued, fulfil the requirements of any historical research and I have no reason to question her intellectual integrity. The conclusions of her books are that Islam is not pleasant for individuals or civilizations who wish not to join up. I have come to the same conclusion independently.
I can also accept that the Rod Liddle article you refer to The Spectator was pretty much completely anecotal. However, there are an awful lot of people with similar anecdotes. There are no concrete statistics to say what percentage of the youths actually shouted 'Allahu Akhbar', during the riots, and how many called Sarkozy a dirty jew. There were clearly enough for the French Government to allow the UOIF to issue a fatwa to ask them to calm down.
And yes, as Rod Liddle noticed, walking through a muslim neighbourhood is extremely uncomfortable for an infidel or uncovered female. I no longer go these parts of Paris and my anecdotes are not disimilar to Rod Liddle's.
There was however two other articles in The Spectator. One was by Patrick Sookhdeo of the Barnabas Fund. He knows full well the realities of life for non-muslims in islamic countries.
The other was by Mark Steyn, entitled 'Its the Demography, Stupid". The demographic realities are that, in France, one child out of every three is born muslim, that life in muslim majority areas is very uncomfortable for infidels and finally, that the vast majority of peaceful muslims can do very little about extremist behavior amongst their ranks because the sacred texts support Bin Laden rather than Ayaan Hirsi Ali.
Yours sincerely
Where are those moderate muslims when you need them?
Abt living in the MIddle East:
I was part of ARAMCO in Saudi Arabia for sometime. And you have to be there to understand. Five times during the day, people have to stop all activities and pray. It doesnt matter whether you are a believer or a kafir. Of course, if you continue what you were doing (such as walking in the streets), yo stand the risk of being caned by the moral police. They also have the right to enter any home and inspect. So, during their month of Ramdan, we non believers are not allowed to cook, within the confines of our home!! I smuggled a Bible and kept it hidden under my clothes. But to be honest, I was scared to take it out, in spote of locking myself up in my room.
A woman can go out only with her father or her husband. She has to be fully covered in that sack cloth, even in temperatures well above 40 degrees C. Men and women have separate shopping areas, separate doctors,....
Of course, I havent had the privilege of going to their holy cities since no infidel is allowed there. I have to tell you, they do paint a veru good picture of what hell is like.
Sorry to be somewhat off (a very good) topic .. but anyone know if the recent fatwah against his Mom has caused Charles to tone down his Islamaphilia a bit? Perhaps he's rethinking his terminally unique claim of "Defender of the Faiths" ?
Daisytoo
Kind of makes one want to fly over Indonesia and drop down a ton or so of Piglets.
They would get slaughter in no time,so not such a good idea.
Pig manure would be better
http://www.fomi.nu/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=16703#16703
Sebastien
I too saw the David Aaronovitch piece in this morning's Times. My reaction was slightly different in that I thought it excellent news that enough people had written to him with a realistic view of Islam for him to feel the need to reply. Even if that response, entitled "It's the latest disease: sensible people saying ridiculous things about Islam" was pretty silly. I did think he let himself down refering to Eurabia as a concept created by "a writer called" Bat Ye’or which is derogatory toward a writer of her stature.
I saw Madame Ye'or and Revd Dr Sookhdeo (unlike Mr Aaronovitch I am happy to give him his qualifications) lecture in London last night. I expected it to be interesting. They were very impressive. Which makes Mr Aaronovitche's comments even more petty.
American...
Americans need to rent more John Wayne movies.
He fixed things the two fisted way. Lots of grit 'True grit'. Too many Americans lack 'grit'. They are mostly liberals and members of the Hod Carriers Union #36, Oakland California, USA. There is nothing quite like an American hod carrier with no grit. It's like mashed taters with no gravey, or hominy without the grits. John Wayne movies wont fix the problem, but they set a standard for Americans
That is, 'enough is enough, and enough is too much'. When we reach that, it is time to punch the man in the nose, Wayne style. I dont know if the liberals and hod carriers have the grit to do that, but if we keep showing them Wayne movies they might eventually get the message.
BTW, I once saw an old Wayne movie where he was about twenty years old. He got into a fight with an old grey haired man and got his butt kicked. That may have been the first and last movie where John lost the fight...
But duh_swami, The Duke we know wouldn't beat the lights out of a respected elder. He HAD to lose that one!
Was that the early film where he played a Swiss immigrant? -- the one where he's "shanghai-ed" by a "mickey" in that bar with those pirates ? If so, he was not playing an American -- although later, in his deplorable "performance" as Ghengis Khan, (that rough but lovable scoundrel) he sticks with a dissonant Cowboy formula -- It is my least favorite performance of John Wayne -- hardly his best...
I love the idea of kicking the enemy's ass remorselessly, when ever and where ever the opportunity arises...