I am quoted in this WND article, "Radical Islam blamed for French rioting: Muslims 'scorn' Europe's ways, 'conspire to take it over,'" saying a lot of things I have never said; I think they have mixed up my article on the French riots with someone else's. But anyway, the statements of Tancredo and Pipes are noteworthy.
U.S. Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., in an interview with WND, said he believes the chickens are coming home to roost in France because, for years, the country with the largest Islamic population in Europe has ignored rising Muslim tensions within its own borders. The real issue the French "are now dealing with," he said, "is [that] you cannot integrate some people into your society."Daniel Pipes, an expert on Islam and the director of the Middle East Forum, a think tank promoting American ideals in that region, thinks the riots in France are a microcosm of the larger radical Islamic goal of gaining a solid foothold in Europe.
"The great majority of Muslims in Europe see themselves as bearers of a superior civilization and see themselves growing prodigiously," he told WND. "Through a cultural, religious and demographic confidence they feel scorn towards European ways and conspire to take it over."
I'm tired of France. I'm not going to say much except this, they've brought this on themselves and they deserve every bit of it.
Mr Spencer said: The great majority of Muslims in Europe see themselves as bearers of a superior civilization and see themselves growing prodigiously,
A Superior Civilization?.....AAAAAHHHHHAAAAAA!!!
Honestly, how can people with such a low level of education and such low achivement worldwide consider theselves superior? Superior to what? Large rodents?
Honestly, it is time to call a crusade.
Defend France!!!
Defeat Jihad!!!!!
"We are Ummah. You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile."
The real issue the French "are now dealing with," he said, "is [that] you cannot integrate some people into your society."
Doesn't he mean: the French are finding it a tad difficult assimilating into Islam.
But not to worry, young 'uns brought up on Islam find the going easier and easier. So it's only a couple of generations of pain. Then it's full-fledged "victim" membership of the IslamoBorg "civilization"!
You will be assimilated. Resistance is futile.
It's seems so. We need a hero...fast.
And buried in this evenings news...
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20051105/D8DMKAVGC.html
The anger spread to the Internet, with blogs mourning the youths.
Along with messages of condolence and appeals for calm were insults targeting police, threats of more violence and warnings that the unrest will feed support for France's anti-immigration extreme right.
"Civil war is declared. There will no doubt be deaths. Unfortunately, we have to prepare," said a posting signed "Rania."
"We are going to destroy everything. Rest in peace, guys," wrote "Saint Denis."
(Do you think their riots always start at 9pm since they are so poor they have to use their free nights and weekend minutes to plan the attacks.)
They are talking civil war, destruction, deaths.
Maybe the officials haven't noticed yet, ya think?
They aren't reading the web sites we are reading.
Watching the Borg
Wow! Quite an accusation that these riots are due to Muslims being Muslim. Logically then, using the same argument, the 1992 L.A riots were due to blacks being black. But of course, while the one is obviously racist, the other is just muddied about enough by a group of people who have apparently convinced themselves that it is acceptable to have ill-will and hatred towards a people whom they know little about.
"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king"
Peace.
Hmmm... let's see, now.
Pipes sees this as a "micro"cosm of larger Islamic goals.
Personally, I wonder if this insurrection could establish a bridgehead in Europe, since the Moslems already know that the French can't defend themselves. That's not what I would call "micro"-anything.
The Moslems know they have to get a sharia foothold established somewhere in the West to use as a base of expanded jihadist operations. Why not France? It makes perfect sense. The French can't fight. It's been proven several times in recent history. They'll capitulate soon enough and a new Islamic State will emerge in Europe as a springboard to the rest of the Western World.
But I digress. These riots are about unemployment, aren't they.
Wherever muslims are, there is strife. I dare you to deny that. islam is not compatible with civilization.
It's all about Iraq, isn't it?
Yep, it's all about Iraq and...
India and the Sudan and Algeria and Afghanistan and New York and Pakistan and Israel and Russia and Chechnya and the Philippines and Indonesia and Nigeria and Thailand and Spain and Egypt and Bangladesh and Saudi Arabia and Ingushetia and Dagestan and Britain and Turkey and Kabardino-Balkaria and Morocco and Yemen and Lebanon and France and Uzbekistan and Gaza and Tunisia and Kosovo and Bosnia and Mauritania and Kenya and Eritrea and Syria and Somalia and California and Kuwait and Virginia and Ethiopia and Iran and Jordan and United Arab Emirates and Louisiana and Texas and Tanzania and Sri Lanka and Pennsylvania and Belgium and Denmark and East Timor and Qatar and Maryland and the Netherlands and Scotland and...
...and pretty much wherever Muslims believe their religion tells them to:
"Fight and slay the Unbelievers wherever ye find them. Seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem of war."
Qur'an, Sura 9:5
Shukri,
A riot usually is a manifestation of a breakdown in culture. Riots are rarely purely noble events in defiance of an evil regime. While some riots may involve some genuine grievances that have motivated the unrest, frustration and tempers to flare, the riot itself -- torching cars & buses, beating up people, looting stores, running amok in a herd mentality -- is an obvious expression of serious dysfunction.
The 1992 LA riots had, therefore, something to do with urban black culture and a tendency to be unable to rein in frustrations from boiling over into widespread and indiscriminate (and often self-defeating) violence.
The current Paris riot seems to have a lot to do with a community of Muslims that have chosen to entrench themselves in a foreign land while choosing not to assimilate themselves. They come from impoverished, extremely dysfunctional, repressive and corrupt Muslim countries, plant themselves in a society that is light years ahead of the hell-holes they have fled from, and they burrow down into their ghettos (banlieues) nursing and nourishing their sense of victimized otherness, based on an Islamic self-identity and sense of Islamic superiority that is in manifest dissonance with the material superiority of French society, with a wounded pride.
Your post also seems to imply that all riots are equivalent -- perhaps out of a Marxist interpretation that all riots (at least all riots in Western countries) are expressions of protest against the evils of Capitalism and Western racism. But riots, like anything else, can have different features and causes, in different places where they happen.
Shukri writes:
"Wow! Quite an accusation that these riots are due to Muslims being Muslim. Logically then, using the same argument, the 1992 L.A riots were due to blacks being black. But of course, while the one is obviously racist, the other is just muddied about enough by a group of people who have apparently convinced themselves that it is acceptable to have ill-will and hatred towards a people whom they know little about."
Well, obviously, you know little about logic, as
"being black" and "being Muslim" are not substitutable in any meaningful way, one being a
genetic condition of birth, the other being a belief system. But I suppose that, being Muslim,
logic is difficult and lies come easy.
When this starts happening in the USA, Americans will be glad we have our 2nd Amendment. Sharpen
the knives and prime the powder!
"When this starts happening in the USA, Americans will be glad we have our 2nd Amendment. Sharpen
the knives and prime the powder!"
Yeah, for the first few decades anyway. After that, peace will become more desirable as has inevitably happened and happens. America has the advantage of geographical isolation at least. For Eurabia, I'm afraid it's going to continue for a generation or so, till they finally become smart enough to realize that Islam (ie. Submission) is the best and only option. Just ask the Nuristanis :(.
Let the French wallow in the nightmare of their own making. I hope that they do not flee to the US and stay to take their medicine: we have enough Marxist morons.
There was a Frenchmen blaming the elites… I blame the people who do not take their democracy and liberty seriously. We in the US too deserve the blame for allowing the elite to nominate just two candidates for us to choose from. Having voted for Bush, I will never forgive myself, especially after seeing the mess in Iraq firsthand. I would have not voted for Carry either.
There is no more true democracy in America when we can not get a single electiable candidate to reflect what the average citizen want: sealed border, very restricted and sensible immigration, sane trade policy, keeping the jobs home and punishing companies who use tax breaks to export jobs, halting the Islamfication of American and the Dhimmification of its people, crushing our enemies in the world in an intelligent manner.
Kufr:
I can not get a weapon’s permit because I live in an ultra liberal county in an ultra liberal state. I held a security clearance when I worked for the government and I can not get a shotgun to protect my home without paying thousands of dollars for a lawyer to sue the Police department to get my permit. My own brother and father were threatened by Muslims because of online discussions with Muslims. All I have to protect my home is an axe and baseball bat, but would that stop a punch of armed Muslim thugs. In certain geographical locations the 2nd amendment does not exist. I do not have the extra funds or the time to spend on a legal battle with the PD.
OT,
Is the Meadowlands "profiling victim" an extremist?
http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/meadowlands.asp
Templar and Johnny Dub: Templar: God will bless you. Johnny you said: " the French can't defend themselves."
The Franks started this 900 years ago. They can fight. They're leadership sucks, but don't, please, give up on the Normans.
As long as Islam keeps Christians and Jews in dhimmitude, Christian countries should make Muslims living in them live under the same conditions. Let them pay a jyzia until they convert to Christianity. Furthermore, no mosque should be allowed in Europe until a Catholic Cathedral is opened in Mecca. We should apply the same reciprical standards so religion and culture that we apply to trade and economics.
have_mercy, you should never make any statements about Islam in public that can be traced to you and yours. That's the cardinal rule if you want to live and not end up like Van Gogh. So be smart when you have discussions about this mortally incorrect subject. Be safe!
There are some risks you have to take, such as posting on this website. If it were hacked tomorrow and IP addresses of posters gotten hold off, they will pick off each of us one by one, but one can only hope these things aren't saved on disk.
Provoslavni, good point. But unfortunately, since the secular West has claimed equal treatment of all religions (something Muslim countries never did or will ever do), it has to live with the consequences. Unfortunately, the likeliest scenario is going to be Islam persisting patiently in Europe for generations (millenia even, as in India), making land Islamic inch by bloody inch, always claiming intolerance as justification for more Islamic land. Kashmir 95% Hindu and Buddhist in 1300 today is an Islamic country. Think about it, 700 years! And will they be satisfied with Kashmir. You bet they won't. The goal is omnipresent and incumbent upon every true Muslim.
All I have to protect my home is an axe and baseball bat, but would that stop a punch of armed Muslim thugs. In certain geographical locations the 2nd amendment does not exist. I do not have the extra funds or the time to spend on a legal battle with the PD.
Posted by: have_mercy at November 6, 2005 12:46 AM
That is very sad. And very stupid of your gov. There are provisions in the USA to take all firearms from the populous upon the president’s declaration. A… National emergency? Or some such*
*(not sure- as this info was not recorded for retrieval),
Anyways.... we have discovered that one can whip out one of these puppies in about a week or so with no electrical power, for home DEFENSE of course
http://www.atarn.org/chinese/rept_xbow.htm
Apologies............................................perhaps these last Avragejoe entries should be deleted after the need is served. We would not want any pious youth types getting bad ideas for the harming of civvies trapped in Paris
Good luck and safe tomorrows to you and yours have_mercy.
http://www.vintageprojects.com/archery/crossbowfull.pdf
source:
http://www.vintageprojects.com/archery/cross-bow-plans.html
http://www.arco-iris.com/George/chu-ko-nu.htm#9
AvrageJoe:
I do not have the carpentry skills necessary to construct such a weapon as a repeating crossbow. However, if you are being rushed by bunch of Muslims who just broken-down your door, you need something with serious stopping power like a sub machine gun or a powerful shotgun. If fully armed riot police can not stop a Muslim mob, what can even a single well armed person do against Muslims armed with Molotov cocktail bottles ready to burn down his home? When my brother discovered that his computer was hacked (never use a Muslim moderated site to debate Muslims) when he and his father were called on their private phones. As a veteran of our armed forces, he felt betrayed when the police did not take the matter seriously and he could not get a gun.
From an earlier thread, responding to Nariz's defense of multiculturalism...
Nariz shows the same misconception about multiculturalism that afflects so many on the Left. It is not cultural diversity that is problematic; immigrants are going to retain their culture to varying degrees regardless of what is propagated in the schools and the media. This is fine. Diversity in food, music, art, philosophy, etc is enhancing to a nation.
"Multiculturalism" is something very different; it is a socio-political-educational construct based upon the concept of relativism, that all cultures are equally valid and that value judgments of any culture are inherently bigoted and therefore unacceptable. Since we are a Western country, this is tantamount to the abandonment of our own cultural values. Furthermore, as part of the construct in practice, Western Civilization remains the one culture that is allowed to be held up to continued critical scrutiny.
The result is vilification of the West and a white-washing of all non-Western cultures. David Horowitz described the effort to propagate it in our schools as an attempt to "detach the future elite from their own country."
AvrageJoe
Thanks, take cara and stay safe.
This route is more dangerous to the user and also could result in more severe criminal penalties for the "enthusiast” but stopping power is to be had here. Not recommended for the layperson.
http://www.escape-co.com/weapons_books.htm
Sorry Robert and crew but this "is" serious business, and the removal by the elite of one's ability to protect one's self and loved ones is part of the dark Islamic plagued future.
AvrageJoe:
Thank you for the tips. I can not use them because I don't have the time or skills to bulid them. I am sure the ones who can build them already have more powerful weapons though. An easy weapons idea is converting a propane welding torch into a flame thrower. The goverment can not punish you for having a plumber tool and it will scare and mame the bravest Jihadist thugs.
The psychological stopping power of the silent and obvious* was first choice (and also the possibility of escaping the net of anti-civilian firearms laws.
*(Shafts sticking out of screaming members of said unruly mob assaulting home)
For some reason shall more effectively diffuse the power advantage of being a member of the attacking mob. After that advantage is taken from them there is only cowardness left for the fodder. And the immediate controllers will see their armies melt into disorganization and random sporadic action with a sharp decrease of effectiveness…. think of your neighbors.
Apologies once again .ending survivalist oriented material henceforth.
further
QUOTE:
An easy weapons idea is converting a propane welding torch into a flame thrower.
endquote
Also good psychological stopping power, but huge drawback of potential disaster for you, yours... and neighbors.
Be thou not daunted by lack of skill. just dont cut off any digets ,or find a carpenter and make them your buddy ;)
The people here at Jihad Watch know more about Islam than supposed "followers" of it.
Shukri is an Islamist waging a psychological war here in this forum.
Again, there is no honor in Islam, only arrogance.
Peace to those who follow the Straight Path,
It's helpful to read your comments, God Willing you are thinking about how this all makes sense in the grand scheme of things. have_mercy, last time you quoted the Bible and used some verses, explaining how Jesus, peace be upon him, will disown the people who will attribute deeds done in his name.
The Qur'an: Surah 5, Ayat 116: And (remember) when Allah will say (on the Day of Resurrection): "O 'Isa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary)! Did you say unto men: 'Worship me and my mother as two gods besides Allah?'"He will say: "Glory be to You! It was not for me to say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, You would surely have known it. You know what is in my inner-self though I do not know what is in Yours; truly, You, only You, are the All-Knower of all that is hidden (and unseen). 5:117. "Never did I say to them aught except what You (Allah) did command me to say: 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord.' And I was a witness over them while I dwelt amongst them, but when You took me up, You were the Watcher over them; and You are a Witness to all things. (This is a great admonition and warning to the Christians of the whole world).
5:118. "If You punish them, they are your slaves, and if You forgive them, verily You, only You, are the All-Mighty, the All-Wise.
5:119. Allah will say: "This is a Day on which the truthful will profit from their truth: theirs are Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise) - they shall abide therein forever. Allah is pleased with them and they with Him. That is the great success (Paradise).
Elsewhere in the Qur'an, there are great examples: Sura 4: Ayat 171. O People of the Scripture! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allah aught except the truth. The Messiah 'Isa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allah and His Word, ("Be!"-and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a Spirit (Ruh)(see footnote) created by Him; so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allah is (the only) One Ilah (God), glory be to Him (Far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is All-Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs.
4:172. The Messiah will never be proud to reject to be a slave of Allah, nor the angels who are the near (to Allah). And whosoever rejects His worship and is proud, then He will gather them all together unto Himself.
(Footnote on Ruh). Ruh-ullah: According to the early religious scholars from among the Companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and their students and the Mujtahidun, there is a rule to distinguish between the two nouns in the genitive construction: a) When one of the two nouns is Allah, and the other is a person or a thing e.g. Allah's House (Bait-ullah); Allah's Messenger (Rasul-ullah); Allah's slave (Abdullah); Allah's spirit (Ruh-ullah), the rule for the above words is that the second noun, e.g. house, messenger, slave, spirit is created by Allah and is honorable in His Sight, and similarly, Allah's spirit may be understood as the spirit of Allah, in fact it is a soul created by Allah, i.e. 'Isa (Jesus). And it was His Word: "Be!"-and he was. [i.e. 'Isa (Jesus) was created like Adam]. b) But when one of the two is Allah and the second is neither a person nor a thing, then it is not a created thing but is a quality of Allah e.g. Allah's Knowledge (Ilm-ullah); Allah's Life (Hayat-ullah); Allah's Statement (Kalam-ullah); Allah's Self (Dhat-ullah). (end footnote)
One should look at the religion, not necessarily at the people practicing the religion, because we humans are always going to fall short, regardless of our beliefs. have_mercy, you had mentioned that Islam promotes aggression and warfare (I'm paraphrasing) and that Christianity doesn't do so. Yet, you also state that you have served in the military. Shouldn't we Muslims defend ourselves as well? In fact, there are many rules of engagement that we Muslims must adhere to, and aside from the Geneva Convention (which is voluntary), the U.S., the U.K., the French, etc. military also have rules of engagement, true? The difference is, of course, Islam is the religion that God has chosen for all humanity to follow and the rules are God's Rules, whereas, for anyone of the service branches, their rules were created by humans. As you know, God is Perfect and we humans are not. I'll leave you with a few verses from the Qur'an.
Sura 5:Ayat 82. Verily, you will find the strongest among men in enmity to the believers (Muslims) the Jews and those who are Al-Mushrikun (idolaters, polytheists, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah, pagans), and you will find the nearest in love to the believers (Muslims) those who say: "We are Christians." That is because amongest them are priests and monks, and they are not proud.
5:83.And when they (who call themselves Christians) listen to what has been sent down to the Messenger (Muhammad, peace be upon him), you see their eyes overflowing with tears because of the truth they have recognised. They say: "Our Lord! We believe; so write us down among the witnesses.
5:84. "And why should we not believe in Allah and in that which has come to us of the truth (Islamic Monotheism)? And we wish that our Lord will admit us (in Paradise on the Day of Resurrection) along with the righteous people (Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and his Companions, May Allah be pleased with them)."
5:85. So because of what they said, Allah rewarded them Gardens under which rivers flow (in Paradise), they will abide therein forever. Such is the reward of Al-Muhsinun (the good-doers).
5:86. But those who disbelieved and belied Our Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), they shall be the dwellers of the (Hell) Fire.
May Allah Guide you all and set your affairs in order,
Abdullah
Adullah:
Why you do not you take your typical Muslim b.s and sell it to someone ignorant or stupid enough to believe it? I grew up in a Muslim DOMINATED country and you do not have to preach Islam to me… I was preached at since I was 5 years old. I read Arabic and I do understand, the Quraan, Tafsser, Sira, Ahadith, Sunanin and fiqh very well.
In one tongue you miserably fain concern and another you make threats. You started your post with a translation of “As-salam ‘ala men itabi’a al-huda”, and since I do not follow the “huda” of your prophet, there is no peace for me, in fact all that awaits me is having my throat cut as a “9addo allah wa rasulih”, an enemy of Allah and his messenger.
The history of my country and people under Islam and the struggles of my own family tell me all I need to know about the Muslims and their religion. And do not preach to anyone about hellfire... Remember what your prophet said in the Quraan about himself and his Ummah: Inka maiit wa inakum maytoon انك ميت وانكم ميتون : You are dead and all of you are dead, but Jesus said: “I AM THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE”
ABDULLAH: "...Islam is the religion that God has chosen for all humanity to follow and the rules are God's Rules, whereas, for anyone of the service branches, their rules were created by humans. As you know, God is Perfect and we humans are not."
CORNELIUS: The Quran explicitly allows for the killing of prisoners of war. The Geneva Convention doesn't. Which is more humane, God's rules or man's?
If these are bloodthirsty muslims that are intent on killing infidels according to the teachings of the Quran, then why are they only attacking property?
Cornelius,
On multiculturalism. Well said. I think multiculturalism, as you've defined it, amounts to moral relativism. I once had an argument with a post-modernist professor who actually tried to defend cannibalism (among the Aztecs) by appeal to the principle of moral relativism.
Ethical principles must trump multiculturalist relativism. Some western countries are learning this lesson the hard way, as we see in France. (Note: France produced many of the early post-modernist philosophers).
Ryan,
You ask why aren't they killing infidels?
First of all, they almost did kill someone yesterday. And their tactics could easily end up killing people. (Stay tuned).
My guess for why they aren't just going around murdering people en masse is that they deem it a more effective strategy to gain political power through terror tactics. They are claiming that the land that they are occupying belongs to them and not to France. This violence is organized and coordinated.
If the people who are committing the violence now were stronger militarily, you might very well see them kill lots of people. Remember Kosovo?
One thing to keep in mind, also, is that among these communities there is a strong bias against French European society, and there is plenty of racism directed at whites. The racism goes both ways. However, the key problem is neither race nor economics but that traditional Islamic principles require that Muslims must not integrate. Some Muslims reject that and become more secular, but many others don't.
Archimedes: "This violence is organized and coordinated."
A lot of the "riots" seem to be slash and burn raids. Cheap technology, motorcycles and cellphones (all made by the kaffir of course), and Muslim pyschosis are all it takes to terrorise the "settled communities". Their prophet would be proud of them.
Shukri
That's pretty ironic coming from a Muslim apologist. Almost every major conflict, nearly ever terrorist attack, and a disproportonate percentage of street crime is attributable to Muslims.
We'd love to have "peace." It's Muslims who make that impossible.
And no, I won't 'submit' to 'peace' in a medieval caliphate where I need to get a ruling from an imam before farting.
“I'm tired of France. I'm not going to say much except this, they've brought this on themselves and they deserve every bit of it.”
Delia
“Let the French wallow in the nightmare of their own making.”
Have Mercy
How sad this is. You mock weakness and yet you display an even greater weakness: defeatism and disunity.
When 9/11 happened, some non-Americans said: “these stupid American bastards, they sold out their lofty principles for oil [Saudi Arabia & the Bin Ladens] and anti-Communism [nurturing Islamism in secular Soviet occupied Afghanistan], and now it’s all come back and bit to haunt them. Serves them right!” And of course people that made such comments were scum in your eyes. Now the French are paying for their own past political mistakes – nevertheless millions of good and honest French people are waking up and smelling the coffee (or at least smelling the smoke from distant burning buildings and cars). Support these unfortunate people in their fight against the monstrous evil which is Islam! Curse the Muslims by all means but offer France hope and encouragement, damn it! If you can’t find it within your stony hearts to feel sympathy for the newly benighted French, - at the very least keep your nihilist and fatalistic thoughts to yourself. The French armed trained and clothed the American separatist ragtag rebel army during the revolution. Your grandfathers and great grandfathers died for the liberty of France. France is still a combat zone against expansionist Fascism. France is still the proving ground and battlefield of our liberty – and what are you doing about it? Posting the above poisonous bullshit, is that your contribution?
France is the front line of Western civilization right now – yet instead of supporting OUR team you’re both smug about an impending downfall, because they “deserve every bit of it”. You talk of “Marxist morons” – well, you and your defeatist ilk prove that European Leftists don’t have a monopoly on folly.
…………………………………………………..
Abdullah
Oh, thanks a lot. And to think, there’s me thinking that Muslims were warlike savages that create hatred, oppression and strife wherever they establish themselves, but now you have enlightened me! You have taught me that Islam is in fact a peaceable progressive religion! And looking at the evidence – who would have thought such a thing! So the fact that innocent tourists are gunned down in the Middle East, innocent commuters are blown to bits in Spain and England, and well, you know… I could really write a book – all of this is but an illusion! Oh rejoice! Burning bodies plummeting from New York skyscrapers, mangled dismembered shoppers in wrecked New Delhi Markets, massacred and pillaged Buddhist Chakma villagers in Bangladesh – all this is but an illusion as Islam is essentially good! Fantastic – thanks for sharing this wonderful news with us.
Well, Abdullah, when your messenger from Satan wasn’t busy executing hundreds of guiltless Jews, waging war, and raping prepubescent girls, the psychopathic rapist lunatic may have wrote the odd fair-minded verse, but afterwards he wrote another two that tell you to slit our throats. And even if these verses mean anything in your horrendous death cult, more fool you, for your aforementioned lofty principles and your practices seem to be irreconcilably alienated.
PS. The Koran is an illogical and unsound pile of garbage.
Yours faithfully
Tim Barrett
Hurstville
New South Wales
Australia
You think I’m scared?
Come and get me you Satanist barbarian Muslim filth!
hey Abdulah, l know muslim when l read God Willing.. you think you can con anyone with the God Willing. like your false prophet knew what was God Willing.. smell the coffee, with Bush's armies in Iraq, it keeps killing your losers muslim men, muslim men are killing their own people.. so you french muslims are
killing cars in France? what a bunch of cowards.. you cant use an country's army, you need to hide behind the skirts of women.. you feel mighty powerful in your cult that you can dominate your women... again you dont have a religion, you have a cult of cowards...
Abdullah;
Selective quotes are a red flag, I discount you immediately.
I served in the military for 10 years between the active and the reserve, an national army, not a Christian army, observing agreements and treaties covering conduct and rules of engagement, like not tarfeting children in strollers.
And stop dropping those damned quotes all over the place, you're making a mess and someone could slip and throw their back out. The trashcan is over by the door, use them both.
Mercy;
One of my first assignments in the reserves was a Military Police unit in NY. One day I was sent with some others to transfer a load of M16s to a HQ company on the other side of NYC. Due to the gun laws in NYC, we wore empty .45 sidearms, and were forced to circumvent NYC because even we, the US Army, could not get clearence to cross the city with our weapons.
How long will our advanced western cultures accept these muslims into our countries where they only cause trouble and conspire to grow in numbers and some day overthrow the government in favor of an islamic state? (about half the respondents in a survey of muslims say that they would support such a move.)
How long? If I ever saw rioters in my town setting fires or whatever, they had better hope I don't find them before the authorities do because being a soldier, we can take care of our land.
Dr. Pepper, riots are criminal acts and those involved in exacebating the situation deserve to be punished.
My problem is with people who are attributing riots to a specific religion, perhaps due to prejudiced biases that have been formed against that religion by those with a preconceived agenda.
In this particular case, Jihad Watch is deliberately engaging in falsehood of the worst kind by deliberately ascribing the riots to religion while discounting(again, through bias) what is pretty much universally acknowledged to be the roots of the problem: discrimination and racism against the North African populations in France.
I.E: They are not marginalized due to an inability to assimilate but rather they are marginalized due to racial and religious discrimination as has been widely reported and an elementary look will confirm.
But definitely, riots are completely unacceptable. It is to be noted that the vast majority of French Muslims and North Africans have condemned it and it is only a small group of trouble makers who are systematically spreading chaos.
The people on Jihad Watch know more about hatred and ill-will than even people like Zarqawi.
Beagle, Christians are responsible for some of the worst acts of mass killing in world history from the cannibalization of children in the Crusades to World Wars 1 & 2 to the genocide in Rwanda, in which Nuns and Priests took delight in participating. So the pot would be better off not calling the kettle black.
Add up the number of all people killed in Muslim terrorist attacks. If it adds up to more than the civilians "accidentally" killed in any one of America's military adventures, I would be very surprised. Who is a threat to world peace and stability is a very debatable topic.
I rest my case.
It is clear that the environment right now for Muslims is the same as the festering hatred that has occured throughout US history beginning in the 19th century with the Chinese, then the Blacks, then the Japanese and many others too numerous to mention.
Hate is a very self-defeating mechanism. I pray that people are awake to that reality.
Peace.
Shukri:
Still touting your "portable theocratic state"?
The difference between Muslims and other minority groups is that Muslims have a game plan for taking over whereever they happen to be and that game plan was provided by big Mo, piss be upon him.
Mentat, very honestly and meaning no disrespect, you are too paranoid. Go visit your local Mosque (enter zip code here: http://www.islamicfinder.org/) and you'll be more informed about Muslim intentions. That would be better than to spin Muslim-take-over conspiracy theories. Seriously, don't be afraid and go visit your local mosque...even on a daily basis. At the very least, you can consider it your patriotic duty to see what is being done in the Mosques.
"But definitely, riots are completely unacceptable. It is to be noted that the vast majority of French Muslims and North Africans have condemned it and it is only a small group of trouble makers who are systematically spreading chaos." ~ Shukri
Where have I heard this bilge before? Oh yeah, everytime there is an islamic attack against the Infidels. But this rote response begs the question: Just how large a number is this "small group of troublemakers who are systematically spreading chaos"? It always seems to be a small group who have hijacked this 'religion' that causes problems all over the world.
Shukri,
You said:
"The people on Jihad Watch know more about hatred and ill-will than even people like Zarqawi."
It is ridiculous to compare the people of this web-site to a psychotic killer who is running around Iraq wreaking havoc, cutting people's heads off in the style of his hero, the prophet Mohammad. Let's also keep in mind that Zarqawi, as leader of al Qaeda in Iraq, is not only killing coalition soldiers, but he is killing and further endangering the lives of the Iraqi civilians who he claims to be "defending."
Every web site has some loose cannons and sometimes people get angry, let loose, and hit "send." One thing I've learned from this site is that the majority of people here are fair-minded and are quite legitimately concerned about the rise of Islamic imperialism.
We're concerned that, in otherwise free and democratic countries, we may openly criticize and question any ideology, any religion freely, but we cannot do this with Islam. Apparently, Christians, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Atheists, and everyone else can handle some criticism and some lampooning. They're mature; they can take it. Many Islamists seem to have trouble handling it. Scholars and critics like Ibn Warraq (a Muslim apostate) or Robert Spencer must either use a pseudonym or leave their whereabouts unknown, or both. Many progressive and secularly-minded Muslims also quite legitimately fear making criticisms of Islam for fear of reprisals from members of their own community. We're concerned about the readiness and willingness of many Islamists to target, injure, and kill civilians, apparently with little remorse. Indeed, many of the jihadis celebrate their butchery with glee. We find numerous problems with the Islamic doctrine, in particular we find that the Koran, Hadith, and Sira not only provides justification for killing non-Muslims, but even commands it and rewards it. The Islamic texts explicity permit the killing of anyone who criticizes Islam. Such difficulties have been discussed many times on this site.
I think the attitude of this site is best summed up by Robert's Spencer’s comment several days back regarding Ahmadinejad's call for the extermination of the Israeli people. Ahmadinejad went on in his rambling hate speech to condemn all the "cheeky humans"--all those people who don't support his brand of strict Islamism. Robert wrote,
“All Cheeky Humans -- men, women, Jews, Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, atheists, secular Muslims, whatever -- must unite to make sure his dream (of fundamentalist Islam) is never realized.”
Sounds pretty fair, reasonable, and inclusive to me. And I believe the majority of the people on this site would agree with this. I know that the majority of Muslims are peaceful, but I believe this is to their credit as human beings, and it is despite what is written in the Koran.
WWI and II versus the Jihads.
World Wars I and II were not fought in the name of "Christendom," as you call it. They were fought to stop one of the worst tyrants in history from exterminating the Jewish people and destroying Europe. Hitler attacked. The Allies responded. At most, Hitler had a very selective and distorted view of "Christianity," so selective and distorted that his views were significantly at odds with all known forms of Christianity. In any case, there is no command in the New Testament for believers to exterminate the Jews or anyone else.
Compare that with the Islamic doctrines and the jihads waged by Mohammad and his various successors. The jihads involve fighting in the name of Allah, and are clearly sanctioned in the Koran. The Hadith contains statements calling for the extermination of the Jewish people. The Koran says that the goal of Islam is to conquer all other religions. The Koran tells Muslim believers to kill, convert, or subdue all people until all religion is for Allah.
And when we turn to the historians, we find that the bloody imperialistic jihads throughout history were in strict accordance with the Koran.
Dr. Andrew Bostom, in his article _Confused Islamic Apologetics_, writes (citing Tibi)
"Islamic institution of jihad itself, expressed eloquently by the contemporary scholar Bassam Tibi:
"At its core, Islam is a religious mission to all humanity. Muslims are religiously obliged to disseminate the Islamic faith throughout the world. “We have sent you forth to all mankind” (Q. 34:28). If non-Muslims submit to conversion or subjugation, this call (da’wa) can be pursued peacefully. If they do not, Muslims are obliged to wage war against them. In Islam, peace requires that non-Muslims submit to the call of Islam, either by converting or by accepting the status of a religious minority (dhimmi) and paying the imposed poll tax, jizya. World peace, the final stage of the da’wa, is reached only with the conversion or submission of all mankind to Islam…Muslims believe that expansion through war is not aggression but a fulfillment of the Qur’anic command to spread Islam as a way to peace. The resort to force to disseminate Islam is not war (harb), a word that is used only to describe the use of force by non-Muslims. Islamic wars are not hurub (the plural of harb) but rather futuhat, acts of “opening” the world to Islam and expressing Islamic jihad. Relations between dar al-Islam, the home of peace, and dar al-harb, the world of unbelievers, nevertheless take place in a state of war, according to the Qur’an and to the authoritative commentaries of Islamic jurists. Unbelievers who stand in the way, creating obstacles for the da’wa, are blamed for this state of war, for the da’wa can be pursued peacefully if others submit to it. In other words, those who resist Islam cause wars and are responsible for them. Only when Muslim power is weak is “temporary truce” (hudna) allowed (Islamic jurists differ on the definition of “temporary”). 6
On Islam in Spain:
"From the two greatest modern historians of Muslim Spain, Evariste Levi-Provencal8 and Charles Emmanuel Dufourcq,9 we learn the following, all of which occurred before (and thus in addition to) the 12th century Almohad persecutions alluded to by Professor Ormsby:
"Iberia (Spain) was conquered in 710-716 AD by Arab tribes originating from northern, central and southern Arabia. Massive Berber and Arab immigration, and the colonization of the Iberian peninsula, followed the conquest. Most churches were converted into mosques. Although the conquest had been planned and conducted jointly with a faction of Iberian Christian dissidents, including a bishop, it proceeded as a classical jihad with massive pillages, enslavements, deportations and killings. Toledo, which had first submitted to the Arabs in 711 or 712, revolted in 713. The town was punished by pillage and all the notables had their throats cut. In 730, the Cerdagne (in Septimania, near Barcelona) was ravaged and a bishop burned alive. In the regions under stable Islamic control, Jews and Christians were tolerated as dhimmis – like elsewhere in other Islamic lands - and could not build new churches or synagogues nor restore the old ones. Segregated in special quarters, they had to wear discriminatory clothing. Subjected to heavy taxes, the Christian peasantry formed a servile class attached to the Arab domains; many abandoned their land and fled to the towns. Harsh reprisals with mutilations and crucifixions would sanction the Mozarab (Christian dhimmis) calls for help from the Christian kings. Moreover, if one dhimmi harmed a Muslim, the whole community would lose its status of protection, leaving it open to pillage, enslavement and arbitrary killing.
Link. http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=14578
More jihadic killing in accord with Islamic Holy War Policy...
Andrew Bostom. Jihad Killings of POWs and Non-Combatants
Dr. Bostom writes...
"Abu Yusuf (from the Hanafi school of jurisprudence, d. 798):
“..that one can even ..finish off the wounded, or kill prisoners who might prove dangerous to the Muslims.. As for the prisoners who are lead before the imam, the latter has the choice, as he pleases, of executing them, or making them pay a ransom, for the most advantageous choice for the Muslims, and the wisest for Islam. The ransom imposed upon them is not to consist either of gold, silver, or wares, but is only in exchange for Muslim captives..” 9
"Ibn Abi Zayd Al_Qayrawani (d. 996), head of the North African Maliki school at Qairuan:
“There is no inconvenience to kill white non-Arabs who have been taken prisoner”. 10
"The famous Syrian jurist Ibn Taymiyya (d. 1328) of the Hanbali school under the Mamluks:
“…If a male unbeliever is taken captive during warfare or otherwise, eg., as a result of a shipwreck, or because he has lost his way, or as a result of a ruse, then the imam may do whatever he deems appropriate: killing him, enslaving him, releasing him or setting him free for a ransom consisting in either property or people. This is the view of most jurists and it is supported by the Koran and the Sunna…” 11
And Amir Timur, during his jihad campaigns through Northern India (1397-99 C.E.) conducted what may have been the greatest mass slaughter of prisoners ever chronicled:
“Next day, Friday the 3rd of the month. I left the fort of Loni and marched to a position opposite to Jahan-numa where I encamped… I now held a Court… At this Court Amir Jahan Shah and Amir Sulaiman Shah and other amirs of experience, brought to my notice that, from the time of entering Hindustan up to the present time, we had taken more than 100,000 infidels and Hindus prisoners, and that they were all in my camp…I asked their advice about the prisoners, and they said that on the great day of battle these 100,000 prisoners could not be left
“…with the baggage, and that it would be entirely opposed to the [Islamic] rules of war to set these idolaters and foes of Islam at liberty. In fact, no other course remained but that of making them all food for the sword. When I heard these words I found them in accordance with the rules of war, and I directly gave my command for the tawachis [drumbeaters] to proclaim throughout the camp that every man who had infidel prisoners was to put them to death…When this order became known to the ghazis of Islam, they drew their swords and put their prisoners to death. 100,000 infidels, impious idolaters, were on that day slain. Maulana Nasiru-d-din ‘Umar, a counselor and man of learning, who, in all his life, had never killed a sparrow, now, in execution of my order, slew with his sword fifteen idolatrous Hindus, who were his captives…” 14
"…Babur (1483-1530), the founder of the Mughal Empire, who is revered as a paragon of Muslim tolerance by modern revisionist historians, recorded the following in his autobiographical “Baburnama,” about infidel prisoners of a jihad campaign:
"Those who were brought in alive [having surrendered] were ordered beheaded, after which a tower of skulls was erected in the camp." 15
"Both Muslim and non-Muslim sources document countless episodes of the pillage and massacre of non-combatants during jihad conquests and raids. And there is ample juridical justification for such acts. For example, the great Maliki jurist and philosopher Averroes (d. 1198) asserted,
“Most scholars agree that fortresses may be assailed with mangonels, no matter whether there are women and children within them or not. This is based on the fact that the Prophet used mangonels against the population of al-Ta’if.” 16
"The much lionized Sufi theologian Al-Ghazali (d. 1111) made a similar pronouncement:
“…one must go on jihad (i.e., warlike razzias or raids) at least once a year...one may use a catapult against them [non-Muslims] when they are in a fortress, even if among them are women and children. One may set fire to them and/or drown them...” 17
"The Hanbali jurist Ibn Taymiyya (d. 1328) provided this caveat, which allowed for killing those who would otherwise be classified as non-combatants, if they merely engaged in verbal or written propaganda:
“As for those who cannot offer resistance or cannot fight, such as women, children, monks, old people, the blind, handicapped and their likes, they shall not be killed unless they actually fight with words [eg. by propaganda] and acts [by spying or otherwise assisting in the warfare]. Some jurists are of the opinion that all of them may be killed, on the mere ground that they are unbelievers, but they make an exception for women and children since they constitute property for Muslims” 18
"Unfortunately, historical examples of the killing of non-combatants during jihad campaigns, abound, beginning with the very earliest Muslim conquests. The 7th century Chronicler John of Nikiou describes the jihad conquest of Fayyum and Nikiou, including the massacre of non-combatant women and children:
“[In Fayyum] The Ishmaelites attacked, killed the commandant, massacred all his troops and immediately seized the town…Whoever approached them was massacred; they spared neither old men, nor women, nor children…Then the Muslims arrived in Nikiou. There was not one single soldier to resist them. They seized the town and slaughtered everyone they met in the street and in the churches – men, women and children, sparing nobody. Then they went to other places, pillaged and killed all the inhabitants they found… But let us now say no more, for it is impossible to describe the horrors the Muslims committed when they occupied the island of Nikiou, on Sunday, the eighteenth day of the month of Guenbot, in the fifteenth year of the lunar cycle, as well as the terrible scenes which took place in Cesarea in Palestine.” 19
"John Cameniates provided an eyewitness account of the jihad capture and pillage of Thessaloniki in 904 C.E. Cameniates, his elderly father, and his brother, taken prisoner while they tried to escape by the ramparts, were spared their lives because they promised their captors a large amount of money. They were marched as prisoners through the city, and thus witnessed the terrible carnage of their fellow townspeople who had sough refuge in the church of Saint George. A summary, and excerpts from Cameniates narrative reveals that:
“The Thessalonians tried to escape through the streets, pursued by the Saracens, who were unleashed like wild beasts. In their panic, men. women, the elderly, and children, ‘fell into each other’s arms to give each other one last kiss.’ The enemy hit with no mercy. Parents were killed while trying to defend their children. No one was spared: women, children, the elderly, all were immediately pierced by the sword. The poor wretches ran through the town, or tried to hide inside the caves; some of them, believing they could find refuge inside a church, would seek shelter inside, while others tried to scale the walls of the ramparts, from where they jumped into the void and crashed to the ground. Nuns, petrified with fear, with their hair disheveled, tried to escape, and ended up by the thousands in the hands of the barbarians, who killed the older ones, and sent the younger and more attractive ones into captivity and dishonor… The Saracens also massacred the unfortunate people who had sought refuge inside churches.”
“The church [of Saint George] was full of wretches who had sought safety within it. There were about three hundred of them, as we learned later. A great number of murderous enemies came in. Immediately their leader bounced onto the holy altar, where the divine offices are held by the priests: there, crouching down with his legs crossed, in the manner of the barbarians, he sat, full of rage and arrogance, looking at the crowd of those people, full of the evil spirit of what he intended to commit. After grabbing my father and my brother with his hands, and after ordering that we be guarded in an area near the entrance by some of his men whom he had chosen, he gave a sign to his men to do away with the crowd. Like wild wolves when they meet their prey, they began to massacre the poor creatures quickly and mercilessly, and, overflowing with rage, they inquired with their eyes as to what the terrible judge wished to do with us: but he stopped them from doing anything against us, for the moment… After the end of the massacre of those poor people, the entire floor was covered with bodies, with a lake of blood in the middle. Then, as the murderer could not get out, he ordered that they pile up the bodies one on top of the other, on the two sides of the church; then he quickly jumped down from the altar, came up to us, and grabbed my father and my brother with his hands.” 20
"Professor J.B. Segal reviewed the jihad destruction of the Christian enclave of Edessa in 1144-1146 C.E., during the Crusades, using primary source documentation, including a contemporary account by Michael the Syrian.
“Thirty thousand souls were killed. Women, youths, and children to the number of sixteen thousand were carried into slavery, stripped of their cloths, barefoot, their hands bound, forced to run beside their captors on horses. Those who could not endure were pierced by lances or arrows, or abandoned to wild animals and birds of prey. Priests were killed out of hand or captured; few escaped. The Archbishop of the Armenians was sold at Aleppo…The whole city was given over to looting, ‘..for a whole year..’, resulting in ‘…complete ruin..’. From this disaster the Christian community of Edessa never recovered.” 21
"Professor H.Z. Hirschberg includes this summary of a contemporary Judeo-Arabic account by Solomon Cohen (which comports with Arab historian Ibn Baydhaq’s sequence of events), from January 1148 C.E, describing the Muslim Almohad conquests in North Africa, and Spain:
“Abd al-Mumin…the leader of the Almohads after the death of Muhammad Ibn Tumart the Mahdi [note: Ibn Tumart was a cleric whose writings bear a striking resemblance to Khomeini’s rhetoric eight centuries later] …captured Tlemcen [in the Maghreb] and killed all those who were in it, including the Jews, except those who embraced Islam…[In Sijilmasa] One hundred and fifty persons were killed for clinging to their [Jewish] faith…All the cities in the Almoravid [dynastic rulers of North Africa and Spain prior to the Almohads] state were conquered by the Almohads. One hundred thousand persons were killed in Fez on that occasion, and 120,000 in Marrakesh. The Jews in all [Maghreb] localities [conquered]…groaned under the heavy yoke of the Almohads; many had been killed, many others converted; none were able to appear in public as Jews [emphasis added]…Large areas between Seville and Tortosa [in Spain] had likewise [emphasis added] fallen into Almohad hands.” 23
Spencer confirms that the killing of non-Muslims is an obligatory aspect of spreading Islam:
Robert Spencer Article. _Karen Armstrong’s Fantasies About Islamic Terror_
He writes...
“The Shafi’i manual Reliance of the Traveller, which bears the endorsement of Sunni Islam’s most respected authority, Al-Azhar University in Cairo, stipulates that jihad is “a communal obligation” to “war against non-Muslims.” It teaches that “the caliph makes war upon Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians…until they become Muslim or else pay the non-Muslim poll tax . . . The caliph fights all other peoples until they become Muslim” (o9.0, o9.1, o9.8, and o9.9).”
Link. http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=18732
Unfortunately, the interpretation that has been used historically has often been that disbelievers not only can be killed, but should be killed. Otherwise, disbelievers could be enslaved, or treated as dhimmis, if this was beneficial to Islam. Clearly this is cause for major concern. We must call for a complete rejection and repudiation of the Islamic doctrines of terror, intolerance, and imperialism. I hope you agree, Shukri.
Further evidence is described in Andrew Bostom's (ed.) volume _The Legacy of Jihad_ and Robert Spencer's _The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam_.
Readers,
The link for the second Bostom article, Jihad Killings of POWs and Non-Combatants, is
Sorry. Link for second Bostom article:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=14964
It is clear that the environment right now for Muslims is the same as the festering hatred that has occured throughout US history beginning in the 19th century with the Chinese, then the Blacks, then the Japanese and many others too numerous to mention.
Whose fault is that? Better go back to your homelands, now.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
There are provisions in the USA to take all firearms from the populous upon the president’s declaration. A… National emergency? Or some such*
There are thousands of acres of land where our firearms will be buried in that eventuality. We will never be left to the mercy of the merciless.
Timbo wrote: “Have Mercy: How sad this is. You mock weakness and yet you display an even greater weakness: defeatism and disunity.”
Hey Timbo: How are you in down under? When I was in Iraq I worked with both Britt and Aussies and I know very well both our friend and enemies are? The Americans, the British, the Australians are the only peoples with the guts to fight.
I do display neither defeatism nor disunity for they both require certain preexisting facts: 1) Does the West even know what the enemy is to have even a chance to beat it?
2) The native French with their innate weakness in the face of danger, their willingness to cut deals rather than stand on principles, their lack of spiritual fortitude and religious convection dooms them to defeat.
3) How can I show disunity with an enemy? France in every sense of the word enemy is an enemy to the US and every anti-Dhimmitude Westerner. I have read captured documents and seen with my owe eyes the fruits of French animosity toward America in Iraq. Too bad my government has not exposed the magnitude of French betrayal, its impact on our forces and the prosecution of the war. The French in an opinion poll after opinion poll continuo to show their hatred of everything American. The history of the struggle with the Ottoman Empire shows that the French helped the Muslims kill and enslave millions of Christians for centuries. The French work to undermine us in our struggle politically, diplomatically, militarily, and technologically.
Show unity with whom mate? Be serious and objective for one second… The governments of the West need an overwhelming impetus and a glaring example that they can not ignore or hide from their population in order to save themselves. If the French are so welling to volunteer, who are we to knock them!
Shukri:
I talk to Muslims every day. I am surrounded by Muslims. I have a Dawa Centre not 10 minutes from my house. I have been studying Islam intently ever since 9/11. Do you think I am an idiot? I know that not all Muslims are terrorists but I also know that almost all terrorists are Muslims and that sad fact is directly attributable to Islam as taught by big Mo, piss be upon him. I also know that Muslims because of the teachings of Islam are compelled to seek political power anywhere they end up. Gimmee a break Shukri! You're talkin' to grownups here not 2 year olds.
Fact: Shukri enjoys freedom of expression provided at great cost--and at no charge--by Western Civilization, an adamintine alloy of Judeo-Christian belief and Greco-Roman culture.
Fact: Where Islam prevails, there is no such thing as freedom of expression.
Why are people (like "Shukri") comparing a passive trait, such as that of skin color, with a behavioral trait, such as that of these "youths" in France, for example? Anyone remember John Walker Lindh? He was the American Taliban who, being from the San Francisco Bay area was, to quote his deranged father, "Getting in touch with his inner Muslim." He was as white as Wonder Bread. It is has nothing to do with race and everything to do with evil ideology (such as Islam) that people blinded by relativism have no moral compass to detect. Evil favors no race, save for the complicit.
"In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is King."
This may be, but if one were to "smite the neck of the unbeliever" who doesn't see the "truth of Islam" lack of eyesight certainly would no longer be a problem, would it?
"Peace" is for the "one-eyed" and the "blind", for they are the only ones who believe such a thing exists.
Timbo is absolutely right. Let me say that France richly deserves its fate: for back-stabbing the US over Iraq; for trying to create new anti-American axises every chance it gets (within Europe, with Arabia, and lately with China) so that it can act again like the "great power" it thinks it still is. But most of all for selling out Israel to the Palestinian barbarians for the last 30 years. "I will curse them that curse thee" the God of the Israelites once promised, and what better proof of his justice (and irony) than that Paris, the "capital of the Arab world", the home of Third World revolutionary chic, should now be in flames thanks to France's own intifada.
A pause to savor the moment is warranted- but only a pause. Because France now truly is on the front-line of the battle to save civilization, and we must do everything to make sure it stands strong and does not capitulate to the Muslim barbarians. No matter how tempting it may be, we must resist the urge to use this moment as an opportunity for France-bashing by throwing back in its face those spurious charges of "racism" and "social neglect" it so unjustly hurls at us. If France goes, can Britain (with its treasonous, New Labour elites) or Spain- with its inane socialist government urging the Spanish to "celebrate" the days of al-Andalus- stand long?
France's pride in its civilization and national identity will help it in this struggle, but its fragile self-esteeem, its need to be admired and liked and thought tres-civilized will hinder it from taking those hard measures that must be taken now. If France and Western civilization are to survive we must help by calling out those intellectuals, journalists, and government officials who would demoralize France by using this moment as an opportunity for foolish, short-sighted pay-back. The international media and govenment elite is surprisingly interconnected and chummy, and even "conservatives" bow to the idols of multi-culturalism and "tolerance" in their efforts to remain within the bounds of what the Davos-hoppers consider respectable discourse. The "conservatives" at National Review bashed Europe for its "racism" in refuinsg to admit Turkey into the EU; do not let them, out of the same irresponsible churlishness- now undermine France.
Of course, Rick. See, every terrorist attack is only carried out by a handful. Not more than 40 people were involved with 9/11, for instance. Are you going to attack 6 million American Muslims because of that? I mean, seriously...
Archimedes, please provide me with a single unambiguous instance of the above.
I'm 100% Muslim. I can speak for virtually all practicing Muslims when I say that our religion is the source of our peace and good behaviour and anything bad that you see is due to our failure to follow the religion.
They were primarily fought and instigated by people who called themselves Christian.
Can we not say the same for Muslim extremists?
This belies the fact that anti-semitism has been a primarily Christian European trait. Note that Theodore Herzl proposed the Zionist project only after witnessing the case of Col. Dreyfuss who was being oppressed by anti-Semites who were European Christians.
"Muslim anti-semitism" today is primarily due to the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and the massive oppression perpetrated by Occupation.
Anyways, please do excuse me but your article's too long for me to individually respond. I would suggest that you read some of the perspectives of Muslim to get a fair grasp. If you need to know books that have Muslim responses to all the topics that you mentioned, you can ask here.
No sir, Mentat. My suggestion was simply that you should regularly interact with those in your local Mosque so that at least you won't constantly be suspicious of what they're up to. I'm not sure that you are doing this right now.
Peace.
"I'm 100% Muslim. I can speak for virtually all practicing Muslims when I say that our religion is the source of our peace and good behaviour and anything bad that you see is due to our failure to follow the religion."
Yup, you are 100% Muslim all right. You would lie through your teeth, say anything to put Islam in a good light.
It's called apologetics; it's called Taqqiya; it's called Kitman. In plain English, it's called lying!
Talk to my local Muslims, about anything other than the weather ... are you joking? You guys have taken the art of deception to its ultimate expression. You constantly say one thing in public and another in private. As if I wouldn't get anything other than sweetness and light from any Muslim I talk to in public, to my face.
Shukri ... you really think we are all idiots? I am sorry. You and Tariq Ramadan and the whole army of apologists for Islam are just out to destroy my civilization. And get this Shukri ... you are not going to! I am teaching my children about Islam; every day I am educating people about your evil cult. Islam will go into the dust bin of history.
Shukri is really too much. He claims that Muslim/Arab Judeophobia is all due to "oppression" & "occupation." Without correcting all of the historical frauds in those words, let's go back in history. How were Jews treated when they were dhimmis in Muslim states? Why does the Quran say, as your fellow Muslim Abdullah quotes it above, that the Jews are the worst of the unbelievers in their enmity to Islam [if I am inexact in my quotation, you may correct me]? Why did Haj Amin el-Husseini, the British-appointed mufti of Jerusalem, spend the World War 2 years in the Axis domain, encouraging the Germans to murder more Jews faster? Why did he tell an audience of the Bosnian SS division [called the "Handschar"] that there was a great resemblance between Islam and National Socialism?[see J Schechtman, The Mufti and the Fuehrer]. Why were the Jews treated so badly in Jerusalem under Muslim rule --in the mid-19th century-- that Karl Marx, no less, wrote that: "Nothing equals the misery of the Jews at Jerusalem," suffering "Mussulman oppression and intolerance," etc. Marx published this in the New York Daily Tribune, 15 April 1854. See a full quote of this passage at http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/06/karl-marx-on-treatment-of-jewish_16.html
Do you want a list or summary of all the humiliations inflicted on Jews in Muslim states over the centuries? Look at Bat Ye'or's books, read Les Juifs en Egypte, by Yahudiya Masriya. I am sure you understand what that pen-name means, Egyptian Jewess. Her book contains choice quotes from Edward Lane's famous book on Manners and Customs in Egypt in the 1830s. Check out what Lane's book says about how Jews were treated in Muslim Egypt. What about the massacre of Jews in Baghdad in 1941, the Farhud? Don't feed us baby food, that is, sweet, soft and sticky stories about how tolerant the Muslims were toward Jews. Check out the American author and traveler, John Lloyd Stephens, on his trip to Hebron in the Land of Israel and how Jews were treated there, in 1836. Theodore Herzl wasn't even born yet [not till 1860]. If you are sincere, then you owe it to yourself to enlighten yourself.
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/07/american-among-jews-in-hebron-1836.html
See the post at this link and subsequent posts about Stephens' visit to Hebron.
No sir, Mentat. My suggestion was simply that you should regularly interact with those in your local Mosque so that at least you won't constantly be suspicious of what they're up to. I'm not sure that you are doing this right now.
Peace.
Posted by: Shukri at November 6, 2005 02:51 PM
Well now,....thats just plain stupid,
What you need to do is remain hidden and observe and follow targets building the conection charts.{Nicknamed subjects and the adresses they retire to... )
*kinda like observing lions without them knowing.}
on a palm-pilot or some such, mebbie even just a pencil and notebook like some poor gumshoe,untill after a time you shall dicern their REAL meeting times and locations and THEN WITHOUT INTERACTING WHATSOEVER observe and record the groups as they do Allahs work.At the locations revoed from said mosque's areas.THAT is the way to TRULY get to know your favorite niegborhood Muslemans.Thanx you and goodnight...............................
Heh...."lions" Is that irony ???
seriously, we cannot tell.
DISCLAIMER: this course of action IS NOT RECOMMENDED for they DO have SPOTTERS just waiting for someone to display interest in activities removed from said mosque’s immediate location. Only trained persons should conduct any covert observations of any group of muslims.
Humble apologies............
Abdallah (slave to Allah), you poor thing...You, IA786, Mohideen, Kingky Tolerance, Shukri, and a few others should show more respect to 'Have Mercy'. Knowledge, understanding and experience= wisdom. 'Have Mercy' is clearly more knowledgable about Islam, and has a much clearer understanding of Islam than any of you. And he has extensive experience...this means that his wisdom level is superior to yours. Instead of trying to show how 'wrong' he is, you should be asking him to give you lessons on how to see the truth when you are looking at it.
As far as home protection is concerned, they got to get passed the barbed wire fence, a twelve foot, broken glass top wall, a fourty foot moat with gators, and fifteen vicious pit bulls wearing bullet proof vests. If they get passed all that, there are still the snakes...
I meant 'Past'...darn beer...I better drink some more of it, I'm losing my ability to function...
Shukri,
I'll try to address your points as briefly as I can.
Punishment of Critics
I said:
"The Islamic texts explicity permit the killing of anyone who criticizes Islam
Then you said,
"Archimedes, please provide me with a single unambiguous instance of the above."
How Mohammad Dealt With Critics.
37:34 Lo! thus deal We with the guilty.
37:35 For when it was said unto them, There is no God save Allah, they were scornful
37:36 And said: Shall we forsake our gods for a mad poet?
37:37 Nay, but he brought the Truth, and he confirmed those sent (before him).
37:38 Lo! (now) verily ye taste the painful doom -
37:39 Ye are requited naught save what ye did -
37:40 Save single-minded slaves of Allah
Here we see that Mohammad condemned critics (e.g., who dismissed him as a “mad poet”) to a painful doom. In order to clarify whether Mohammad simply meant they should be damned (i.e., by Allah) or actually killed by believers, it is necessary to turn to the Hadith. We find that he actually had many of them assassinated, see http://www.answering-islam.org/Muhammad/Enemies/index.html Also note that the Koran states that Mohammad is an example that (male) believers should emulate (33:21).
If you don’t have time to address all of these killings, then address the death of just one of those critics, a very elderly man named Abu Afak. Do you morally approve of Mohammad's ordered assassination of Abu Afak?
Also,
Those who malign the prophet and Allah will be damned (33:57), those who malign Muslims will be doomed, hypocrites and alarmists (or “agitators”) will be slain wherever they are found (33:58-61). Sounds like a pretty tough punishment for being a hypocrite or an alarmist, doesn’t it?
Also, if you had read my lengthy posting above, you would see that I cited a historical example of an Islamic ruling that POWs and non-combatants, including the elderly, handicapped, and women and children, could be put to death for verbal expressions against Islam.
Re Hitler's Distorted View of Christianity
You said:
“Can we not say the same for Muslim extremists?”
The problem is that the message of the Koran, particularly in the later revealed Suras which are not abrogated, is overwhelming a message of war against the disbelievers. This is confirmed by the Hadith reports. The interpretation among Islamists historically has often been, as the examples in my previous lengthy post indicate, that believers should be at war with disbelievers, with a policy of kill, or convert, or subjugate. Allah sent Mohammad to conquer all other religions (9:33, 48:28, 61:9). The Koran exhorts believers to defeat/kill all disbelievers until all religion is for Allah 2:193, 8:39, and allows provisions for conversions and subjugation. I have provided my notes on this issue in a recent posting under the thread for Spencer’s Israel-Palestine Conflict article. Both the Koran and Hadith call for believers to conduct jihad and terrorism against the disbelievers.
I should add that hatred and discrimination toward disbelievers is not limited to the later revealed Suras; it occurs throughout much of the Koran.
When we turn to the overall message to the New Testament, we find that disbelievers may be ultimately damned in the afterlife (that’s also an issue of some contention), but believers are not ordered to take it upon themselves to kill disbelievers simply for the sin of disbelief. At most, they are told to spread the message of Christianity. If we use the examples of the apostles, they did not and were not told to use violence in this endeavour. (Jesus did warn of a huge penalty to those who rejected the message, but administering the penalty would be the Lord’s doing and not for believers).
I said:
“In any case, there is no command in the New Testament for believers to exterminate the Jews or anyone else.”
You said:
“This belies the fact that anti-semitism has been a primarily Christian European trait. Note that Theodore Herzl proposed the Zionist project only after witnessing the case of Col. Dreyfuss who was being oppressed by anti-Semites who were European Christians.”
First, with regard to Germany, there was a tradition of anti-Semitism among Christians that went back at least as far as Martin Luther. I do believe that was a major factor in the Holocaust, but again, there is nothing in the New Testament that calls for Christians to kill Jewish people (i.e., there is no doctrinal support for the Holocaust). There is, however, doctrinal support in the Koran for anti-Semitism , and the Hadith contains reports calling for the expulsion of Jews and Christians from the Arabian Penninsula, and for the extermination of the Jews. (See my recent posting under the thread for Spencer’s Israel-Palestine Conflict article).
Second, anti-Semitism is not primarily a Christian trait. It is at least as common among Muslims historically, and it is primarily Muslims in the post-WW II era who are responsible for anti-Semitism. Let’s keep in mind that prior to Mohammad’s rise to power, there were many Jewish people living in Mecca and Medina (this is according to the Islamic texts themselves). Let’s also keep in mind that, prior to the expansionism of Mohammad and his successors, there were no Muslims living in or around the traditional Biblical homeland of the Jewish people. Finally, note that today, anti-Semitism is most severe and most widespread in Islamic countries, particularly in the Middle East.
What is happening in France is something I do not gloat about and say the French had it coming. But it wasnt hard to predict that it was coming, just waiting for the spark to light the match. If anything this is not good for the US as well. The US is so tied into what Broils of Europe that George Washington saw all to well was going to be our inherent sink or swim into what goes on in Europe the coming next years.
If we go back into history, you can find Anti Semetics everywhere, across the board, from certain Christians and Popes, to the expulsions of the Jews in 1492 in Spain(along with the Moors), to Commies in Russia, the Nazis of course, to many gangs in societies like skin heads and so on. The Jews have had a hard time about everywhere and anywhere they have been.
But of course these were choices made by people in their choosing of that path of Hatred. This has nothing to do with actions of people that went off into darker paths, Christianity just provided the base to choose from. But with Islam, you have a branch of tenant of Anti-Semetics.
If Allah was preaching the good word to Muhaddmed, then why were Christians and Jews allowed to retain their beliefs, it seems to me that Almighty God, I will face One day, would have commanded those religions to not become the People of the Book, but as complete Apostates that Allah doesnt want, wasnt that the reason for Muhhadmed? No that is why the face of Islam stinks to high Heaven verses the teaching of the Resurrection of Christ. Christianity then following Jesus does not codone killing Jews, as the Koran does. Why?
THe Jews today are descedants of all this persecutions that have transpired around them, They had nothing to do with the old trangressions of before, from the problems that the Christians have sometimes been guilty of and of course Nazism is the oppostie of Christianity in its doctrine. The Jews were almost wiped out in systematic genocide that where If the Jews are such wretches and Apostates in Muslims eyes, why didnt Allah order them wiped out immediately as the Koran was transmitted? Why? It makes very good sense to me that the clever Koran, was allowing a dark and destucive lineage that was going to go after Christians and Jews and yet allow them to continue
under its protective deception of the People of the Book. Never in any Christian writing have you ever heard of calling for the destruction of groups of people. It called for each man or women to be accountable to God and Christ for their choices in following the teaching of the New Testament. Now before you point out the actions of people from Christian nations, let me say that those people were not of Christian ideals and every Christian knows the road to heavan is narrow and the gate to Hell is wide. We call deviations from God Sin and the One who reject Christ follow the Devil, something that Muslims and Christians both beleive exist.
In Christian he is a fallen Angel who rebelled against the Lord ALmighty. In the Muslims viewpoint he was the Jinn of Fire who did not bow to Adam upon ALlahs creation. And Allah Allowed Iblis(Satan), who said about Adam why he didnt bow, I am made of fire and He of Clay. In Satan in Islam we have a childish Satan, who whines about Adam, in Christianity, we have the fallen angel who has rebelled with his insurrection to wanting to be of God. This is where the difference lies in how the Evil One is perceived. Hence why Muslims will not listen, but act in deadly, childish Jihad. There Satan was sent to test humanity who told God that he would destroy his creation and God agreed to it as long as anyone who turned from Satan to Allah would be
released from Satan. This is way off from the viewpoint of Christiandom, that the advesary is in full warfare with God.
Shukri:
"Christians are responsible for some of the worst acts of mass killing in world history from the cannibalization of children in the Crusades to World Wars 1 & 2 to the genocide in Rwanda, in which Nuns and Priests took delight in participating."
Yes, you're right, but none of these wars were done in the NAME OF CHRISTIANITY, they happened despite Christian ethics, not because of them. Whereas THIS CENTURY thousands of terrible crimes have been carried out specifically in the name of Islam. I would hazard a guess that 99% of religiously motivated murder in the 21st century has been perpetrated by Muslims. In India they hate the Hindus. In Thailand they hate the Buddhists. In the Middle East they hate the Jews. In Russia they hate the Russians. In England and elsewhere they bomb and spread sedition, in France they riot. And of course, you all hate the Americans. How on earth do you expect any rational non-Muslim not to equate this 21st century global avalanche of Muslim malevolence and criminality with Islam itself?
As for the riots in France - perhaps they were not specifically in the name of Islam (perhaps) but it is strange that the most hostile immigrant community within every European country are the Muslims, and in the light of viciously hostile tracts in the Koran, it is easy to make a link between Muslims rioters and their overtly antagonistic religion.
We are being swamped by Muslims, and Muslim communities everywhere prove to be economically worthless and highly antagonistic towards their “infidel” hosts. When they are in the minority they complain of discrimination, and yet wherever they find themselves in the majority they become the most discriminatory set of people anybody could have the misfortune to live under. They are liars and hypocrites that spill blood wherever they settle. You talk of peace and yet every week there are new Islamic atrocities. The philosophical core of Islam is based on odium and conflict, therefore we must do what we can to evict this intolerable community from all civilized nations.