Mark Steyn issues a call to Europe in the Chicago Sun-Times (thanks to Bryce):
Ever since 9/11, I've been gloomily predicting the European powder keg's about to go up. ''By 2010 we'll be watching burning buildings, street riots and assassinations on the news every night,'' I wrote in Canada's Western Standard back in February.Silly me. The Eurabian civil war appears to have started some years ahead of my optimistic schedule. As Thursday's edition of the Guardian reported in London: ''French youths fired at police and burned over 300 cars last night as towns around Paris experienced their worst night of violence in a week of urban unrest.''
''French youths,'' huh? You mean Pierre and Jacques and Marcel and Alphonse? Granted that most of the "youths" are technically citizens of the French Republic, it doesn't take much time in les banlieus of Paris to discover that the rioters do not think of their primary identity as ''French'': They're young men from North Africa growing ever more estranged from the broader community with each passing year and wedded ever more intensely to an assertive Muslim identity more implacable than anything you're likely to find in the Middle East. After four somnolent years, it turns out finally that there really is an explosive ''Arab street,'' but it's in Clichy-sous-Bois.
Read it all.
Eurabia has arrived! Put any spin on what's happening (poverty, lack of assimilation, what have you), the truth is still the same: civil war has erupted, and the two sides are Islam(ism) and Western civilization.
In their own words (instead of the slanders of people like Steyn and Co.):
Ziwyana Cherif: "I don't think it was racism, just a mistake by the police which they should admit.
"But I do see racism every day. People's faces change as soon as they see a black or Arab face. The death of those boys was the straw that broke the camel's back."
Mamadou Nyang, 19:
"This sweatshirt says 'Dead - for nothing'. It's in memory of the dead boys, Bouna and Zyed.
I left school two years ago but have never had a job. As soon as I say my name and where I live, they tell me the vacancy has gone.
I am happy to do any job, except be a policeman. I hate the police. As soon as they see blacks or Arabs, they just try and cause trouble."
Yes I remember when I couldn't get a job back in the early 90s, I would often set fire to cars and disabled people.
Oh good, let's hope the civil war leads to the elimination of islam in Europe.
Mamadou Nyang, 19:
"This sweatshirt says 'Dead - for nothing'. It's in memory of the dead boys, Bouna and Zyed. ~ Shirki
Well, you are somewhat correct.
They got caught doing something illegal and Ran.
They were scared because they suddenly realized they weren't so superior that they could get away with it.
They jumped over that fence on their own accord.
They got electrocuted because of their own stupidity and arrogance.
So yes. They died for Nothing.
From the BBC's "Have Your Say" Forum:
I lived in France for 8 years and I have never understood why the “youths” deal with "social problems" only through riots. Until one day, I was admitted in a meeting of a so- called "cultural association" subsidized by the local council. A Muslim "brother" talked for about an hour on the difference between "us" and "them", to conclude that whatever we do to "them" is of god's will, a kind of Jihad. Well, the French authorities should start inquiring on the kind of “culture” they are subsidizing.
Chadi Bou Habib, BEIRUT, Lebanon
"The sweet dream of universal cultural compatibility has been replaced by the nightmare of permanent conflict.'' Which sounds an awful lot like a new Dark Ages.""
Also sounds an awful lot like Israel's rude awakening after the failure of the 'peace in out time' talks at Oslo and Wye.
I just want to empathize with France for a moment.
This is going to be very bad for them. If they were to do all they can do (which they do not have the political will to do), they would
- become highly selective about immigration (like requiring a college degree)
- expelling all illegal aliens to their country of origin.
But this will not be enough, because the rioters are 2nd generation FRENCH CITIZENS. So I think this must end in defeat for France. They will go back and forth between financial appeasement and "tough measures", back and forth, back and forth, to no avail. And the French citizens of european ancestry will shoulder the bill for the extra security and welfare programs, and this for an already economically distressed and demoralized nation.
At what point do you decide that you cannot separate the man from his religion/creed, and what do you do then? Is there no point at which a "religious cleansing" is the most rational course? Must they actually come to your door before you decide that violence is justified? I am not trying to be a hate monger here, and would invite smart comments on this specific topic.
In my country (Canada), we recently had a scandal wherein a Native American community had its water infested with E. coli. This went on for days, and some parts of the government actually tried to cover it up. Eventually it got so bad the whole community, 2'000 people, had to be evacuated.
It was sad and inexcusable. Every Indian in this country has every right to be pissed. But how many riots and arson attacks are we seeing from angry Aboriginals? Zilch and counting.
The difference between extremist Muslims and ordinary people isn't that Muslims are wronged. Many groups in this world can claim to be wronged. The difference is how they deal with it. Islamic militants take the view that, since something bad was done to them, everything is now fair game.
To be fair, the victim mentality is an incredibly powerful tool for any kind of evil; Hitler used the screwage of the German people to rise to power, and Al-Qaeda has this idea that there's an enormous Crusader-Zionist conspiracy out to destroy Islam.
Canada was built on centuries worth of screwage of Native Americans, but they continue to abide by the law and live peacefully even after the government fails them yet again. They protest through the channels of media and politics like anyone else. They don't roll over, but they don't throw away everything either.
The people rioting in the streets have grievances, but are dealing with them in the worst possible way. This destruction they're causing solves nothing, and will only make their situation worse.
They should be glad the French government doesn't think like I do.
http://blog.vdare.com/archives/2005/11/03/pondering-paris-why-not-emigration/
Interesting read from
http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/:
“Arrêt sur Images” (freeze frame), a media-watch program hosted by Daniel Schneidermann is the only French public affairs TV show that ever questions the domestic media on a regular basis. Schneidermann is a career journalist who was fired by Le Monde for having written a book that had criticized their editorial line.
Today’s subject was, not surprisingly, the recent coverage of the riots.
It appears that Nicolas Sarkozy was deliberately demonized in the TV reports of him using his strong language earlier in the week. In fact, there was footage available showing Sarkozy using the word “racaille” (riff-raff) while speaking to an inhabitant of Clichy-sous-Bois who herself had just used the word while expressing how fed up she was with local crime.
Sarko answered her using her own words. In politics, that’s a way of communicating empathy. Her words were edited out and never shown in the insuing days. His weren’t. “Arrêt sur Images” showed the whole exchange today.
Mr. Sarkozy was filmed quietly and calmly speaking to youths from Clichy who were apparently very deferential toward him (calling him Monsieur), eager to talk to him and seemed impressed that he was willing to leave himself unprotected by bodyguards in order to spend some time with them. In a what amounts to a ghetto that’s a sincere display of trust.
French police find petrol bomb factory
http://telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/11/06/ufran.xml&sSheet=/portal/2005/11/06/ixportaltop.html
Sorry, try this link for no-pasaran
http://no-pasaran.blogspot.com/
So now that France (and Denmark) have their own "Intifada", I wonder how they are feeling about Israel and her problems with wacko Islam?
The French were always good with PENAL COLONIES.......
The 2 dead brats were and are being constantly tagged onto the end of every news bulletin about the war, sorry this is not a riot, it is civil war, as if they are the cause of a spontaneous demonstration.
Nothing about these actions is spontaneous, it has clearly been planned for weeks if not months beforehand. The bomb factory is a prime example of careful planning.
They are targeting the French economy including the tourist industry, US and UK tourists are now being warned to either avoid certain areas or avoid France completely. Once a country like France loses tourism it loses a huge chunk of it's revenue, not good for a country with a social welfare system like France's.
The usual ogres of the Islamist world such as McDonald's are being attacked as is their transport system.
This is not a riot, this is an uprising, I am surprised that the French don't see it as they did it 200 or so years ago.
The thing that annoys the *&%$ out of me while watching the news (both US and French) is the fact that no one wants to call it what it is: French-grown intifada!
I am Black (actually a chocolate-colored brown LOL) and lived in France for more than 5 years with my French husband. I also happen to be from the Horn of Africa and Christian. I NEVER in 11 years of living in Europe had a negative experience based on my skin color. Not one "racist" experience. After living in the deep south of the US for years, trust me it was refreshing. ;-)
This is NOT about "blacks" or "Africans"... its about muslim punks, who happen to come from North and West Africa. The same ones who used to cause trouble on the trains, metros etc when I lived in France just a couple of years ago. Only it now seems that they feel power in numbers. Arrest them where they stand and if they are illegal deport them so they can go back to the paradise called Mali, or Algeria or wherever the heck their parents came from. In the worst case, send them all to Saudi so they can see how long they'd last burning down businesses because they don't feel warm and fluffy on a daily basis.
I'm sick and tired of black Muslims making me look bad. They are NOT my people. And they are not the "brothers" of the millions of African Christians anywhere. Just ask my real "brothers and sisters" in Sudan, Nigeria, Gabon! They are instead sell-out idiots who are too stupid to understand that once they've served their purpose, the next phase of the intifada will begin, where they like the thousands of black muslims in Sudan will be raped, murdered or taken as slaves.
I usually agree with Steyn, but this really burned me:
"In defiance of traditional immigration patterns, these young men are less assimilated than their grandparents."
"Assimilation", meaning whatever you want it to mean, is not the issue, nor has it ever been the issue. For a guy with no formal education, Steyn is brilliant, but how can he compare the rioting Muslim youths to the army of general Abd al-Rahman in the bulk of his article and come up with the problem being lack of "assimilation"? Al-Rahman's army and these Muslim youth had one thing in common, a portable theocratic state, where the only difference between the two was that al-Rahman wanted to achieve his goal with terror through his military whereas the "youth" seek to achieve it by terror through their demographics. Steyn should know better than to kow-tow to the multiculti crapthink that all people are capable of "assimilation".
La ChrA??tienne -
I am a white person who lives in the American South and I find it somewhat astonishing that you've experienced such a degree of racism since moving to the US, as compared to your experience in Europe. (The US is a big place and it might matter precisely where one is residing in order to account for your experience here). Nevertheless, what you describe about your experience in France is utterly at odds with the prevailing point of view I have seen posted on sites like the BBC forum, which describe the French as racist as hell towards ALL black people. And obviously one cannot tell by looking at someone whether they are Muslim or Christian so I am left, well, somewhat befuddled as to what is the reality over there and, since the "French as racist to black people meme" is figuring so prominently in the explanations we are seeing for the riots, I am interested in your insights in this regard.
One thing you said, though, that I totally concur with, is that these "Muslim punks" as you call them, "feel power in numbers". And from what I can see, they have the numbers now; that "magical 10%" that for whatever reason always seems to represent the 'tipping point' for Muslim self-assertion and agitation for autonomy everywhere.
To Shukri, re your comment above, in which you cite (shall I assume approvingly) a local stating that this was a mistake by the police which they should admit.
Excuse me, but what "mistake"? Are the police not entitled to investigate break-ins? Are the police responsible for French citizens running away from them and climbing into high voltage power stations? Admit WHAT mistake?
The fact that you even cited that woman lets me know EXACTLY where you're coming from. You are implying that Muslims should be above the law in some sense, that they are entitled to some extra special degree of respect that does not apply to other citizens. And you are implying that if the rest of us "ordinary" people don't understand these so EXTRA-SPECIAL rules applying to Muslims, because of their extra-special entitlements, well then screw the rest of us. We infidels deserve to have 10 nights of mayhem and violence thrown our way, until we can see our way towards apologizing, just as good dhimmis should.
Caroline,
Josephine Baker relocated to France in the 1920s because of the welcoming atmosphere and lack of discrimination in France.Back in the 20s, 30s and 40s entertainers like Dorothy Dandridge enjoyed touring in France and Europe because of the lack of Jim Crow laws that existed at the time in the Southern US.It was not uncommon for Black American GIs to relocate to France rather then the US after WW2 with their French wives.The presence of large numbers of arrogant, abusive, bigoted Muslims may have changed the attitude of the French to people of color. But at one time the French were open and welcoming to Blacks from the United States.
Thanks Roxane - Yes, that makes sense just in terms of France's very liberal history. And what you cite is compatible with the recollections of ChrA??tienne above (sorry - don't know how to render the special characters) from her experience in France. I hope ChrA??tienne will return and shed some light on her experiences as a black in France (how many years ago it was before she moved to the US isn't at all clear). But then, in contrast, look back at Shukri's previous quotes about the French attitudes towards blacks. "People's faces change as soon as they see a black or Arab face." So the recency of ChrA??tienne's experiences in France are obviously relevant to understanding to what extent native French attitudes may have changed towards blacks over the years and what might be the explanations for those changes in attitude from the days of Josephine Baker. You describe the Muslim immigrants as arrogant, abusive and bigoted. I am curious as to how precisely this manifests itself, in what I assume must be a fairly subtle way. (I do hope that ChrA??tienne returns to explain how it is that as a black African Christian in France she experienced zero racism, while the rioting African-Muslim population in France describes their experiences in such a radically different way.)
Caroline,
To clarify my comments about the Deep South, I lived in South East GA for some years 1980's to mid 1990s)and still have a lot of family there. I'll be frank in saying that I delt with more problems from blacks that didn't see me as fitting their mold than from whites. But there was the occasional event like being waited on last or having (usually older) whites make comments to me which were simply nasty. Not to mention the KKK handing out pamphlets at the red lights in town. Honestly though, I made many more white friends than black and found the names like "sell-out" and such much more annoying on a daily basis than the occasional problem faced with whites. I left out the details since the issue at hand is not American racism; but the situation facing France at the moment. My apologies if my lack of clarity misrepresented my thoughts on the subject.
As to the situation in France with blacks. I'll tell you what I have experienced in my years there: I am not West African in appearance nor is my accent when speaking French. When many people asked me where I was from after being unable to detect the origin of my accent, I would simply tell them California; because that is where I moved to France from and I am proud to be American. I can tell you that when I said America, many assumed that meant I was Black American (technically true; but not in the sense they thought). They'd always smile big and start talking about how they loved jazz LOL
If you think about it though, there are primarily immigrants from ex-colonies; and most of those are Muslim. All of North Africa, Mali, a lot of Senegal, 1/2 of Cameroon, and parts of the Ivory Coast are Muslim, with little exception. So with the exception of the few Christians from Gabon, the Ivory Coast and Senegal the remainder of Black immigrants are from the islands of Reunion (off the coast of Madagascar, officially a french "county"), and the Caribbean and look quite different than people from West Africa due to years of mixing up the genepool so to speak. I guess its why many figured I was from Martinique or something.
These non-muslim black immigrants and "french blacks" generally have little problem with integration into French society because they have similar cultural values (based on common religion for one thing). So, you don't hear about them. Squeaky wheel gets the grease.
As to basing opinion on France on what you read on the BBC, I'd be weary. I'd never base my opinion of the real situation in Britian on the French news either for that matter either ;-)
For the record, I lived in rural France, an hour outside of Paris for 5 1/2 years returning to the States in 2003.
PS:
It's La Chrétienne (the Christian) :)
here is an interesting link at bbc.com, a "your comments" section where they have listed the most popular comments. It seems the liberal media have not brainwashed us all.
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?sortBy=2&threadID=144&edition=1&ttl=20051106223643&#paginator
Shiek,
When accessing your link I get a blank page, actually a single pixel gif image. I used to read the BBC Have Your Say from time to time as I always found many of the opinions there quite enlightening to realize that the unsophisticated, uncultured unread masses are not limited to the U.S. Since the BBC changed the format of the page, I can not enter the discussion forums, in fact they do not even appear when I pull up the page. At first I thought it was my browser's security settings. Even after reconfiguring my browser for minimal and no securtiy whatsoever, the spots where the topic for the discussion forums should appear were still blank. This has baffled me, I couldn't find any help topic on the BBC, nor after extensive google searching.
How did you do it?
Lisa,
It's too bad you can't read the comments as they are illuminating. Several of the people who commented don't buy for one moment that the rioters are innocent victims.Most also have no problem identifying the perps as Muslims. Thanks for the link
Sheik.
first the bombs, now the guns, riots and inflammatory anti western rhetoric.
Thankfully the next volley will be from us, the silent majority, the hard working indigenous european tax payer, average joe bloggs from lands end England to the czech republic will answer with the ballot and the hard right parties will sweep to power in every european nation and this jihadist menace will be over.
what an incredibly dumb enemy, thats our only saving grace.
Lisa
Try this link
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?threadID=144&&&edition=1&ttl=20051107000152
or this one and then click on the link to "Paris riots: Your reaction"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4412968.stm
What I found most interesting was that you can "recommend" the comments that you liked most and they have a tab of most recommended comments as well as most recent comments. The comments that people liked the most show that people are not believing what the socialist media are trying to feed us. All in all, very good comments.
No luck, even the link to Have Your Say in the 4412968.stm article is blank. The HTML source for this page shows that the JAVA class definitions and loaders are missing. It is even more embarrassing since my line of work entails JAVA based web applications. I can't get the Have Your Say page to load with either MSIE or Firefox, yet I don't have problems with any other JVM application.
“Chrietianne”
Thank you for clarifying your extremely complicated history! I do know that Georgia has no shortage of black Americans and I admit that I have no understanding whatsoever regarding the local inter-black dynamics you are describing. The KKK? Oh yes, quite acquainted with them and southern whites denounce them en masse but that’s easy enough. Not sure what you mean by being called a “sell-out” by your southern black Americans neighbors. Are you a Republican or something To?J
Re your experience in France, you said, :“I can tell you that when I said America, many assumed that meant I was Black American (technically true; but not in the sense they thought). They'd always smile big and start talking about how they loved jazz LOL..”
So are you saying that the French are NOT racist towards Black-Americans? Much as Roxanne described earlier about the French welcome towards Josephine Baker and Black GI’s post-WWII?
“These non-muslim black immigrants and "french blacks" generally have little problem with integration into French society because they have similar cultural values (based on common religion for one thing). So, you don't hear about them. Squeaky wheel gets the grease.”
So are you saying that it is your experience that NON-Muslim blacks assimilate relatively easily into French society because they share similar (Christian) cultural values with the local French (even though the latter appear to be quite secular?) But How do they assimilate in this way? Do French employers aASK if you are Christian vs Muslim??
Because you seem to be implying that the average native French person is quite capable of discerning a difference between American blacks, West-African/Christian blacks, Carribean black-Africans, and Muslim North African blacks, - distinctions that come up, for example, in a job interview. But HOW are those distinctions made? I don’t get it. (And incidentally IF those distinctions ARE made, are they also made between French Christian blacks and French Muslim blacks, and if so, then how so? )
Here's any interesting little essay I ran across when I was browsing for something else, but it says SO MUCH about the attitude of Muslims living in European countries, and their snide responses to sincere requests that they do a bit more to assimilate.
http://www.yementimes.com/02/iss2/culture.htm
This is simply unrepentant anti-European racism, characterizing Europeans as unfeeling automatons completely devoid of depth, character, emotion, compassion, etc.
Lisa
Here is a sample of some of the most popular comments:
Added: Thursday, 3 November, 2005, 08:37 GMT 08:37 UK
Since when has unemployment been a legitimate excuse to start a riot, petrol bomb firemen or fire live rounds at policecars? The Government should get tough with these people who have no respect for the laws of this country. I moved to France 15 years ago, adapted myself to the French way of living, married a French girl and took French nationality. Whatever happened to "when in Rome do as the Romans"?
[1969zappa], Metz, France
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Added: Thursday, 3 November, 2005, 09:09 GMT 09:09 UK
Sarkozy is correct. There is no excuse for violence and destruction in any society or from any part of that society, regardless of its origins. Troops should be brought onto the streets if the police cannot handle the situation.
Ettienne Buisson, Bristol
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Added: Wednesday, 2 November, 2005, 14:53 GMT 14:53 UK
I lived in France for 8 years and I have never understood why the “youths” deal with "social problems" only through riots. Until one day, I was admitted in a meeting of a so- called "cultural association" subsidized by the local council. A Muslim "brother" talked for about an hour on the difference between "us" and "them", to conclude that whatever we do to "them" is of god's will, a kind of Jihad. Well, the French authorities should start inquiring on the kind of “culture” they are subsidizing.
Chadi Bou Habib, BEIRUT, Lebanon
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Added: Saturday, 5 November, 2005, 18:21 GMT 18:21 UK
Besides Muslims, there are also very large numbers of Eastern European immigrants in France (including Romanians). I myself am a Romanian immigrant in the USA. What have we all learnt from the immigrant experience? That when you live outside of your native country, you have to work even harder and try to adapt yourself to the lifestyle and laws of your new country. You can continue to practice your religion and traditions intimately but you should not expect your new country to change for you.
Cristina Bugnaru, Washington, DC (but Romanian)
In this article, Steyn quotes the Chronicle of Isidore. I located the Chronicle of Isidore about the battle in 732 A.D. which Charles Martel won. Does anyone know if Isidore ( many times referred to as Isidore of Beja or Pacensis)wrote anything else about the Crusades?
Here is what I am wondering:
Has the prophet Mohammed, this illiterate Beduin, really managed to write manual for world conquest that actually works?
So far, it looks like that. Islam is winning, and I don`t see where the multiculturalist West has any chance to survice.
China and India will be tougher nuts to crack, but demographics will get them too, no?