Turkish ruling party cracks down on alcohol

"Turks follow a more moderate interpretation of the Koran..."
-- from the article above

Alcohol is forbidden -- in three passages of rising disapproval -- in the Qur'an. The Turks in question who drink are not following a "more moderate interpretation of the Koran" but rather, are ignoring teachings in the Koran. Period. This "moderate interpretation" stuff is dangerous, because it prevents Infidels from understanding that "interpretation" is not what, for at least the past millennium, Muslim Believers are permitted to do. The "moderates" are simply ignoring bits and pieces of Islam. Stated thus, the problem becomes clearer: what is in Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira is that problem. If Muslims here and there, because of local conditions. In the case of Turkey, those local conditions meant the strongman Ataturk, with his systematic program to diminish Islam's social and political role, continued by his successors until recently, which resulted in the growth of a class of "secular" -- i.e. unobservant -- Turkish Muslims.Those "secular" Turks who drink alcohol are not "interpreting" the Qur'an differently. They are ignoring, on the issue of alcohol, the Qur'an.

There is a difference.

At least the rape will be non-consensual.

I'm willing to bet, that as Turkey tries more and more to become part of the EU, that, although they are secular now, they will get closer and closer to becoming an islamist nation. They will adopt sharia law sometime in the near future, probably sometime after they are in the EU (if they get in, which I have a feeling they will). This is just a first step toward that goal, to become the first majority muslim nation to adopt sharia law in the EU. From there, they will spread it throughout the EU, and also we'll see more and more jihad in Europe. Hopefully I'm wrong about that, but if I know islam like I think I do, this is probably what will happen on the present course.

At least the rape will be non-consensual.

Presumably you're referring to this?

I'm not at all happy about this development. As with marital rape, just because something is difficult to prove does not mean that it should be acceptable under the law.

In any case, I'm not sure there is such thing as rape in Islam, only 'zina' (fornication). Or at least it's impossible to prove without four male witnesses. Of course it happens - they just call it marriage, or if it's outside marriage, blame the woman.

To me this looks more like Erdogan showing his true face, "coming out"- to use a popular expression. The Turkish prime-minister, a convicted Islamist who did time in Jail has repeatedly threatened his EU-'partners" not to make Europe a "Christian club".

Turkey's 'secular' status is only upheld by the military and Erdogan has done everything possible to chip away on this perceived secularism. The re-islamisation of Turkey is well on the way.

Erdogan works towards a Europe that will become a Muslim-club instead.

Be of cheerful heart - more bombings and unrest with Muzzies, more Erdogan exposes his Islamist
self - means a big NO from Europe.
Also E.U is ridding itself of 'old guard pro Turkeyites' - Chirac is in deep shit including Turkey shite, Shroeder has been replaced by anti-Turkey Merkel already, Blair is on his way out and daily grows weaker. Which leaves good ol' U S A promoting their buddy Turkey Erdogan!!
Bush is greatly weakened in home polls:longer Iraq war drags on the more unpopular he gets.
In any case he is not loved by rest of E.U leaders and will get the 'fingers' sign when he urges them to accept this 'secular' Islamic nation.
What a Thanksgiving it would be if Erdogan was served up on a platter : Greeks take Constantinople, Kurds reclaim a sizable chunk of Turkey that was taken from them ,Armenians get back their stolen land....list goes on.

Gee.

I hope they realize this will make them less British.

Then again, if you read LGF at all, I think you'll see that they already know that.

Geoff

"Justice and Development Party (AKP) mayors in Ankara, the capital and symbol of the Turkish secular republic, have banned alcohol from local government cafes and restaurants citing a need to protect family values."

They could also protect family values by closing mosques, ban the Qur'an and dismantle Islam.

Interested,

The judge made a mistake directing a verdict based on "drunk consent is still consent." It should have gone to the jury without instructions to acquit.

Volunary intoxication is a terrible argument in court, especially combined with statements like "I would never..." Alcohol is probably the most common exception to the "I would never" rule.

The burden of proof is on the prosecution.

Unless you want a BAC test, sexual contracts, or a "no sex after drinking" rule, these sorts of cases will always crop up.

Automatically siding with someone who admits to being oblivious is not good policy. Nor is assuming a blotto person consented. By definition, the unconscious cannot consent.

That's why I think the judge made a mistake, but don't automatically side with people who make criminal charges without any direct or even circumstantial evidence. "I would never have sex in the hall" is a bit like "I would never dance on a table" or "I would never drive off a boat ramp" or "I would never wear a lamp shade on my head." Sure, until you get completely wasted.

So the judge made a mistake, but the 'rape' is iffy at best.

Moral to the story: don't drink yourself into a blackout.

I made a tongue-in-cheek suggestion to a lay preacher that some politicians may be "moderate Christians". He just looked me in the eye and said "either you are or you're not" (a Christian). Unlike Christianity, Islam is a legalistic religion, so "either you are or you're not" (a Muslim)is even more emphatic. "Muslim" means a follower of Mohammad, the author of the Qur'an. Muslims cannot be "moderate"; by consuming alcohol they are not following MohamMAD(BPOPPUH).
After the flood, Noah planted a vineyard, waited till the vines grew, crushed the grapes, made some wine, and got drunk. Think I'll just go pop a top.

http://www.theturkishtimes.com/archive/02/11_01/op_akp.html

AKP Leaders -In Their Own Words
The Turkish Times, October 30, 2002, Washington D.C. - Secular Turks, including most of the Turkish civilian-military establishment, look at Recep Tayyip Erdogan, the fiery leader of the perhaps-soon-to-be-in-power AKP (Justice and Development Party) as a wolf in sheep’s clothing, as a dyed-in-the-wool Islamist whose animosity towards Atatürk’s secularism has never waned. AKP followers cry foul play and vehemently insist that Erdogan in fact has changed and is now a liberal pro-European Union liberal who wants nothing short of a modern Turkey the way secularists envision it.

Therefore it is incumbent upon us to remind Erdogan’s sincere followers what he and some of his closest friends have said in the 1990s on a variety of issues. Here is a random sampling:

– "Elhamdulillah [thanks God] we are for Shariat!"
Recep Tayyip Erdogan (21.11.1994 Milliyet)

– "I am against New Year [celebrations]."
Recep Tayyip Erdogan (19.12.1994 Sabah)

– "I did not visit a tekke, but a dergah. [Both are Turkish names for religious orders.]
(22.1.1997 Gozcu)

– "There is no need to stand stiff like a geek in the name of showing respect to Atatürk."
Recep Tayyip Erdogan (12.5.1994 Hurriyet)

– "They’ve created such a hullabaloo on November 10
[the day Atatürk died in 1938 and is observed every year by all Turks]."
Recep Tayyip Erdogan (14.11.1994 Hurriyet)

– "Alcohol should be banned."
Recep Tayyip Erdogan (1.5.1996 Hurriyet)

– "We’ll transform Istanbul into Medine."
Recep Tayyip Erdogan (Akis)

– "All schools will be transformed into Imam Hatip [imam and preacher] schools."
[imam and preacher] (17.9.1994 Cumhuriyet)

– "I am the Imam of Istanbul."
Recep Tayyip Erdogan (8.1.1995 Hurriyet)

– "Swimming suit ads are lustful exploitations."
Recep Tayyip Erdogan (6.3.1996 Hurriyet)

– "National Lottery is oppression."
Recep Tayyip Erdogan (29.9.1994 Hurriyet)

– "The days are near when the President [of Turkey] will be an Imam Hatip [school] graduate."
Recep Tayyip Erdogan (5.2.1996 Akit)

– "Green is the color of civilization."
Recep Tayyip Erdogan
[after ordering some of the pavements in Istanbul to be painted green.] (25.6.1994)

– "I prefer to open the sessions of the Turkish Parliament with a prayer."
Recep Tayyip Erdogan (8.1.1996 Milliyet)

– "Imams should also able to marry couples."
Recep Tayyip Erdogan (9.5.1995 Milliyet)

– "In order to reach my goal, I’ll even wear a priest’s smock if necessary."
AKP Chairman Recep Tayyip Erdogan.

– "Atatürk’s perverted principles have become taboos."
AKP Parliamentary Group Vice Chair Bulent Arinc

– "They have turned Anitkabir [Atatürk’s mausoleum] into a wailing wall.
I wonder what he’s [i.e. Atatürk] doing? To whom he is accountable?"
AKP Founder Halil Urun

– "We are praying fervently for the end of secularism. We are being ruled by drunk Mustafa Bekri’s [a rude reference to Atatürk]. Our children should deny for Shariat instead of dying in traffic accidents or fighting the PKK."
AKP Bitlis MP Zeki Ergezen [Mr. Gezen has appeared in a video clip together with the PKK terrorists in a cave in northern Iraq.]

http://www.meforum.org/article/778
While Erdogan describes the AKP as a mainstream, inclusive party, a bridge between East and West, his actions suggest otherwise. While Alevis - a Sufi-influenced Islamic sect - number about 15 million in Turkey, the mainstream daily Milliyet surveyed more than 300 AKP parliamentarians and found not a single Alevi deputy. Traditionally, acceptance of diverse interpretations of Islamic jurisprudence is a prime reflection of tolerance. Despite the AKP's rhetoric, the Alevi barometer suggests a gathering storm.

Worrying signs abound in Istanbul, where East and West have long blended in harmony. While the Saudi-style (as opposed to Turkish-style) veil was once limited to outlying districts like Sultanbeyli, it is becoming increasingly common in the center of Istanbul. While secular society accepts the veil in the name of diversity, such tolerance is one-way. Turkish women say residents of more conservative districts make them feel unwelcome if they do not likewise adopt conservative Arab styles of dress.

In the past year, the AKP has begun to translate its near monopoly over most major municipalities and national government into action. Rule-of-law has been a casualty. On January 7, 2005, bulldozers and dozens of policemen showed up outside Chocolate, a trendy café adjacent to the Besiktas soccer stadium. After a Besiktas match, men and women, sons and daughters, would cross the street and relax, have a coffee or beer, and watch the boats go by on the Bosphorous. On that rainy day, the police arrived with bulldozers and told the shocked staff the municipality - run by AKP - had ordered the restaurant destroyed. Television cameras and the property owners videotaped the subsequent confrontation. The landlord's lawyer demanded to know on what grounds the municipality would demolish the restaurant. He produced the requisite permits and demanded to see a court order. "I don't know anything about a court order. And I don't want to see your permits," the AKP official said. "I have a job to do." Minutes later, bulldozers drove through the glass atriums of the restaurant in front of shocked onlookers. The AKP did not even switch off the restaurant's gas before the demolition. Vendetta trumped safety. Three other restaurants fell victim to the AKP's bulldozers on the same day. The video shows waiters and cooks weeping. No restaurants meant no jobs in Turkey's already tight job market. Had they worked at a more Islamic establishment, they need not have worried.

The January demolitions were not alone. On October 14, 2005, AKP officials demolished part of Reina, a restaurant and nightclub complex on the Bosphorous popular among affluent and Western-oriented elites. Again, the government operated without a court order. The AKP-led municipality has especially targeted Istanbul districts led by other political parties. Demolitions have occurred in SiSli, Bakırkoy, and Kadikoy.

Large firms deemed un-Islamic or pro-Western by the ruling party's advisors have also been subject to arbitrary taxation and penalty unsupported by any financial regulation or audit. The government has targeted beer manufacturer Efes and the local Coca-Cola bottler, while promoting products manufactured by companies deemed Islamist. Turkish Airlines once served Coca-Cola on its flights. According to flight attendants, at the request of the government, it increasingly substitutes Cola Turka, a brand owned by Ülker, a confectionary company long associated with Islamist causes.