Charles Moore skewers dhimmi Western Christians in the Telegraph:
'The Koran is the Muslim Bible" is something that most Westerners would say by way of a shorthand description. Although Koran and Bible are the most sacred scriptures of their respective religions, the comparison may be misleading.Last month, Dr Rowan Williams, the Archbishop of Canterbury, visited Pakistan. He went to the Islamic University in Islamabad, and told his audience what he thought Christianity was. He did this with scholarly, scrupulous fairness. Part of his speech, naturally, was about the Bible. He pointed out that it was composed by "ordinary human writers" over hundreds of years, and could therefore err about minor facts. The Bible was inspired by God, he said, but, "We do not think that God dictates the Bible to its writers, but that he works with and in their human minds to communicate his purpose". It "tells one story in different voices".
I am looking at a book called What Every Christian Should Know about Islam, published by the Islamic Foundation. So far as I know, it presents an orthodox account of Muslim belief. It says that Mohammed was probably illiterate, and that the Koran was therefore dictated by him from memory after he had received it in visions. It is not his teaching: it is the unmediated word of God: "The Holy Koran differs from any other religious text in that it was not written or edited by any human author; no word has been added to it or subtracted from it."
What this means is that all Muslims are what we call "fundamentalist" in a way that no Christian, not even the most literalist, can quite be. One man, the Prophet, was given the perfect truth in one form, and so the truth, and the form, are absolute. To question the status of the Koran as described above is to insult God.
Read it all.
This is the first op-ed I've read in a major newspaper which mentions interpretation of the Koran, persecution of non-Muslim minorities, blasphemy laws, and several other topics.
Good on Charles Moore, but terrible on journalism as a whole.
Charles Moore is wrong to say that Christians cannot be fundamentalist in the same way. Many believe every word of the Bible is "God breathed" and entirely infallible. They regard Rowan Williams as a dangerous liberal heretic. Moore is unjustified in citing him as an authority on all Christianity.
This is the first op-ed I've read in a major newspaper which mentions interpretation of the Koran, persecution of non-Muslim minorities, blasphemy laws, and several other topics.
The Telegraph is excellent when it comes to telling the truth about Islam. Will Cummins wrote two very good articles for The Telegraph, costing him his job at the British Council, as discussed on this site.
The Spectator is good too. It had a whole series of articles on Eurabia by Anthony Browne and others. The Times is variable. It has Rod Liddle, Anthony Browne and Julie Burchill, who understand Islam, but also David Aaronovich, who doesn't, sensible as he is in other ways.
Charles Moore is wrong to say that Christians cannot be fundamentalist in the same way.
Would you rather get on a plane full of Christian fundamentalists or a plane full of Muslim fundamentalists? The worst the Christian fundies might do is play guitars in a nerdy way - the devil really does have the best tunes - and "love bomb" you. It wouldn't kill you; it would make you stronger.
Read Ibn Warraq's "Why I Am Not A Muslim", particularly the sections on the invention of Islam and the origins of the Quran. Warraq's detailed accounts of at least 7 recognized(each with 2 versions of transmission) and uncounted other versions of the Quran and the efforts of Uthman to destroy them and diseminate his "New Improved" version, the presence of over 250 foreign(non-Arabic) words, and the striking similarities to far older texts from neighboring areas and religions, makes claims of divine dictation and that "no word has been added, no word subtracted" ridiculous, even laughable.
In all fairness, I wouldn't make claims that the Bible is divine either, but Christians aren't crushed under the weight of "submission".
It's just a shame that muslims can't take that fantastic ability to ignore reality, construct an alternate form, and, in an effortless and apparently unashamed manner, turn truth precisely on it's head, and channel it into something that's worth a damn.
The Coran reflects Mo's insecurities. He had made a complete hash of the Torah scriptures and when the Jews of Yathrib confronted him with his mistakes, Mo got furious and began persecuting them.
Please don't compare the Coran with the Bible.
I agree with M. Houellebecq when he said that the Coran is an "insult to human intelligence."
http://www.barnabasfund.org/
As referred to by Charles Moore in his article. The Christmas appeal for the School for Christian Children in Cairo is very affecting. We raised a modest sum at our toddler nativity this week.
RE: I wouldn't make claims that the Bible is divine either.
If you study the Bible, everything that is happening in the Middle East has been prophecized.
The Bible is the ONLY religious book to contain Prophecy.
In the near future, Israel will discover oil and Russia and the Arabs will invade Israel. I won't tell you how it ends, but if you want to know then read the Bible (better yet, read books as they help with the understanding)
RE: I wouldn't make claims that the Bible is divine either.
If you study the Bible, everything that is happening in the Middle East has been prophecized.
The Bible is the ONLY religious book to contain Prophecy.
In the near future, Israel will discover oil and Russia and the Arabs will invade Israel. I won't tell you how it ends, but if you want to know then read the Bible (better yet, read books as they help with the understanding)
In one regard, I'm not surprised by the acidic hatred and contempt Muslims feel towards many Christians. When a chief prelate of the Anglican Church panders to Muslims in this manner, the Muslim fascist must lick his chops.
If an arch-bishop speaks so ignorantly, if he displays such blindness and stupidity before his Islamic audience -- he deserves contempt and more. I can barely imagine agreeing in the first place to stand before a throng of fascist Muslim bigots. Pakistan is full to the brim with Muslims who bear a malignant hatred for the Christian religion, and who revel in denigrating Christianity as heretical. The evil Muslims reduce Christian adherents to beasts for slaughter, and actively seek to subdue, murder, and anihilate the Christian world... So it is stupefying to see this Arch Bishop go to Pakistan and proceed to validate the favorite Muslim pretexts for Islam's cancerous contempt of his religion. He abases himself and his religion, vainly hoping to receive in return some mirrored abasement from the Muslim -- some acknowledgement that Islam too is imperfect, that it may be flawed. His miscalculation is that Islam and Muslims and the Koran are the same as Chistianity Christians and the Bible. He assumes that the Muslim is free to say that Islam too is at best a distorted and possibly flawed version of God's word -- of God's will -- His miscalculation, his deadly conceit is INCREDIBLE. This censurable criminal should have known beforehand that his servile words would not soften the Muslim's heart, but steel it to hate him even further. They smell blood. They sense weakness.
There are embarrassingly few things in which Muslims can claim preeminence in the world, but as opportunistic beasts who feed hatred and contempt, the Muslims are first in the world. The Muslims must have delighted in every word, and taken great comfort from them. With witless shepherds such as Dr Rowan Williams leading his flock to slaughter, they have nothing to fear, and everything to celebrate. Shish kebob lamb -- a favorite Muslim delicacy delivered to their doorstep by a Prince....
If you study the Bible, everything that is happening in the Middle East has been prophecized.
The Bible is the ONLY religious book to contain Prophecy.
In the near future, Israel will discover oil and Russia and the Arabs will invade Israel. I won't tell you how it ends, but if you want to know then read the Bible
QED
Good post jsla. I cannot agree more. You hit it right on the spot nothing more to add. Congratulations.
Exactly jsla.
Do not engage with the Muslim masses. It will always be a complete waste of time. If he wants Muslims to question the infallibility of their religion, he's going about it the wrong way. Shame Islam, constantly. That will make them question the validity of their religion. Print out all of the embarrasing stories regarding Muhammad in context. Print cartoons of Muhammad. Write a sura on a pig. The Muslim masses only understand strength and shame. The archbishop doesn't have to bomb them, but he can ridicule Islam. Muslims are so used to their religion being respected in their home countries so they expect nothing less from infidels in the dar-al-Harb because that's just they way Allah intends it. Well, what if the infidels don't respect it, what if they can withstand their terror? Does Allah intend for that to happen? Hmmmmm.
Igor and jsla are absolutely correct on this one. You cannot defeat Islam by debate or logical argument. You have to undermine and destroy the base of their ideology to that it it no longer in their interest to remain Muslim. Look at the few successful examples of de-islamicization in history. Spain after 1492 comes to mind. We have to treat Islam just like we treated Nazism in Germany at the end of World War II, as an evel ideology that must be rooted completely out of the culture. We didn't worry about the average German's religious freedom and uphold their right to worship Hitler but instead instituted a de-nazification program that did not compromise its goal. That has to be done now. Reward those who abandon Islam and humiliate those who won't. Instead, it looks like Bush, Blair and their neo-con supporters are happy push an Islamic state in Iraq and elsewhere they can control.
"The quran differs from any other religious text in that it was not written or edited by any human author; no word has been added or subtracted from it" - what a sick pathetic joke - see this -
http://www.understanding-islam.com/related/history.asp
might have been posted here before.
learjet - where in the bible does it say israel will strike oil? btw williams is a complete apostate
Is he an Archbishop or is he a Queen?
Anglicans please do not be insulted! Several years ago, I was tuning my I radio and I tuned in to what I later discovered it to be a pro-gay Radio station, which was saying that the ordination of Archbishop of Canterbury will go ahead despite the fact that he was caught having relations with a Scottish farmer in a Parrish restroom. Apparently, his grace has the habit of assuming the inverted “L” position. To all the Britt’s: is this accurate or a fabrication by a far left radical gay station? If it is accurate though, I must say, it explains much about the Archbishop's behavior.
We do not think that God dictates the Bible to its writers, but that he works with and in their human minds to communicate his purpose". It "tells one story in different voices". Quote..
A good reason to look for it to be true, it supports itself by the numbers of writers, all working to aid the reader to come to their own conclusion.
" It says that Mohammed was probably illiterate, and that the Koran was therefore dictated by him from memory after he had received it in visions. It is not his teaching: it is the unmediated word of God: "The Holy Koran differs from any other religious text in that it was not written or edited by any human author; no word has been added to it or subtracted from it." Quote...
I think many here would argue that point. I say that Mohammed was indeed given the word of "Alah", but I see no reason to think "Alah" is god. "God" never gave a single word to Mohammed, only a angel (Gaberal) did, so "alah" is really the word of Gaberal.
Mohammed was the only messenger, so no other is added to his teachings as to reinforce his message. And there is no reason god would favor him over the approach of "many voices", many adds to the truth of the word.
To belive the Bible is to take it for truth, so demons, satan, evil do indeed exist.
For me, It means Mohammed could have been forced to do the bidding of a evil spirit in the form of a angel. And everything I see on the tree of Islam supports this to be true.