Jihad Watch News Editor Patrick Devenny explores Presbyterian dhimmitude at FrontPage:
Hezbollah official Nabil Qawuq is undoubtedly a busy man. As Hezbollah’s commander in Southern Lebanon, Qawuq is responsible for leading the bulk of the Shi’ite terrorist group’s combat forces, while frequently overseeing attacks on Israeli positions and attempts to kidnap Israeli soldiers or civilians. A confidante of Hezbollah General Secretary Hassan Nasrallah, Qawuq is also a fixture on Al-Jazeera and Lebanese television, his appearances generously mottled with calls for the destruction of the Jewish state.Nevertheless, Qawuq recently found the time in his busy schedule to meet with -- of all things -- a church group. On October 20th, a delegation from the Presbyterian Church of the USA (PCUSA) met with Qawuq and other Hezbollah leaders for an hour in southern Lebanon as part of their three-week regional tour. Led by the head of the Chicago Presbytery Reverend Bob Reynolds, the meeting was convened for supposedly “educational” purposes, with Reverend Reynolds suggesting “I think one way people can learn from one another is to learn the way people talk about themselves and describe their own reality.”
Unfortunately, the conversations which took place between the two parties were anything but realistic. Quwaq opened the conference with a lengthy harangue against the “chaos” and “fear” created by President Bush and “American policy,” whose true purpose he defined roughly as enabling Ariel Sharon to “turn Lebanon into a bridge to harm Syria.” Eager to endear himself to the perturbed Hezbollah commander, PCUSA delegation spokesman Robert Worley, a retired seminary professor, assured Quwaq that all delegation members had voted for John Kerry. Furthermore, Worley promised his host to help disavow Americans of the notion -- impressed upon them by the Western media -- that Hezbollah was a terrorist group, stating:
“Americans hear in the Western media that Hizbullah is a terrorist organization, and they do not hear any other opinion. They know nothing about the party’s concern for the people of the south.”
Worley then pointed out that Hezbollah and his church share similar goals, along with comparable opponents:
“We have suffered much pressure on the part of Jewish organizations in the U.S. because [of our help in] divesting corporations working with Israel. We want Jerusalem to be a united city..”The words of Worley and Quwaq (translated by MEMRI.org) were then broadcast on Al-Manar, Hezbollah’s televised conduit for frothing hate speech, which featured them prominently as part of their virulently anti-Israel programming. The visit gained little notice until last week, when it was reported on by both The New York Times and The Chicago Tribune. Even in the glare of hostile media attention, Worley and Reynolds remained unrepentant, with Worley declaring “Hezbollah got its reputation for resisting occupation…Hezbollah is part of rebuilding Lebanon.”
Instead of engaging in condemnation of the Bush administration, perhaps Worley and company could have better served the people of Lebanon by asking Qawuq to adhere to UN Resolution 1559, which calls for the disarmament of radical groups within Lebanon. Or, as American citizens, the delegation could have queried their Hezbollah hosts on their role in the 1983 attack on the Marine barracks in Beirut which killed 241 American servicemen -- including numerous Presbyterian adherents. Finally, as supposed proponents of inter-faith dialogue, Worley should have asked why Hezbollah carried out an attack on the Jewish community of Argentina in 1994, a bombing which led to the deaths of 86 people and destroyed a nearby church.
Such questions went unasked, of course, stemming from the fact that the PCUSA leadership cannot even bring itself to deem Hezbollah a terrorist organization. As Mr. Worley later asked the Times, “is ‘terrorists’ the right word? They [Hezbollah] are resistants.”
Inexplicably, the PCUSA’s recent “unofficial” Lebanese soirée represented the second such trip taken by high-ranking church officials. On October 17th, 2004, a PCUSA-led delegation -- including Robert Worley -- met with Mr. Qawuq. During the cordial discussion, Ronald Stone, a church elder and former professor of church ethics, stated the following to his gracious hosts:
"We treasure the precious words of Hizbullah and your expression of goodwill towards the American people. Also, we praise your initiative for dialogue and mutual understanding. We cherish these statements that bring us closer to you. As an elder of our church, I'd like to say that according to my recent experience, relations and conversations with Islamic leaders are a lot easier than dealings and dialogue with Jewish leaders..”
The conversation was aired with much fanfare on Al-Manar Television and Iranian state television. The resulting controversy led to the condemnation of the PCUSA leadership by several U.S. Congressman and the Anti-Defamation League, forcing Stone to offer a weak excuse, suggesting Al-Manar “edited” his comments. He did apologize, however, for publicly airing his “own personal frustration” with Jewish leaders. The uproar -- which led to the resignation of two PCUSA staffers -- was apparently insufficient in negating the PCUSA’s seemingly deeply-rooted desire to converse with Qawuq.
Americans unfamiliar with PCUSA’s current political machinations in the Middle East may be shocked to learn that a rudimentary Hezbollah-Presbyterian synthesis exists. To observers aware of PCUSA’s relentless attempts to divest money from the state of Israel, however, Worley’s and Stone’s willingness to meet with the “peace makers” of Hezbollah comes as little surprise.
In July 2004, the PCUSA synod passed the “Divestment Resolution,” which called for all church funds to be withdrawn from businesses based in, or involved with, the state of Israel. Since then, the PCUSA has vigorously expanded and nurtured the program, including the distribution of divestment literature to 11,000 churches and holding national expositions, where hundreds of local church leaders have been educated on divestment action tactics. Additionally, the PCUSA leadership has been thoroughly infiltrated by pro-Palestinian activists who hold dual-memberships in the church and political action organizations, such as the Middle East Council of Churches.
The PCUSA’s incessant crusade against the state of Israel now tinges almost every church initiative. A recent press released aimed at denouncing the ravings of Iranian President Ahmadinejad could not help but spend over 100 words denouncing the “illegal Israeli occupation of Palestinian territories.”
Approximately 64,000 Presbyterians currently serve proudly in the armed forces of the United States. Their security -- along with that of their millions of civilian co-religionists -- is being severely undercut by the hierarchy of their own church, which, on two separate occasions, has seen fit to lend respectability to an organization which thinks nothing of murdering thousands in the name of God.
“Even in the glare of hostile media attention, Worley and Reynolds remained unrepentant, with Worley declaring “Hezbollah got its reputation for resisting occupation…Hezbollah is part of rebuilding Lebanon.”
The reputation of Hezbollah…let’s see: (expanding from Frontpage article)
“Hezbollah's reputation for violence against the West is well deserved. The group was behind some of the worst attacks against Western military and diplomatic targets including:
*The October 1983 bombing of the US Marine barracks in Beirut (241 servicemen died)
*The 1985 hijacking of a TWA flight (in which an American serviceman on board was brutally beaten, then killed and dumped on the tarmac)
*The kidnapping and assassination of American citizens in Lebanon, such as Terry Anderson and CIA station chief William Buckley, who was tortured before he was killed. (A Lebanese terrorist group called Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility for many of these attacks, but the group shared many of the same leaders as Hezbollah, and US intelligence officials allege it was merely a cover for Hezbollah's military wing.)
*The 1992 bombing of the Israeli embassy in Buenos Aires, which killed 29 people.
*The 1994 bombing of a Jewish community center in Buenos Aires, killing 85 civilians.
*Implicated in the 1996 truck bombing of Khobar Towers, a US military base in Saudi Arabia, killing 19 US servicemen…
also Google: Imad Mughnieh
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=20644
These false “Presbyters” would serve their congregation well by remembering the facts and preaching the truth. The political statements they make may also be grounds for loss of "non-profit" status, I suggest they stick to the purposes of the gospel and stop using the church for their own purposes. Hezbollah would just as soon chop their heads off given the right opportunity, (once their usefulness is expired, that is.)
I would condemn the lot of them to live as Presbyterians in Gaza. Of course, these spineless barf-bags would immediately recite the shahadah. Still, even forcing them to live as muslims in the midst of "palestinian" street gang-rule would be ample retribution.
This is a shining example of the infiltration of western institutions by dhimmis. Many Infidels have an inherent will to fill their place in the Sharia, as supplicants. Unspoken but crystal clear in their actions, they sense the power of the death cult and want to secure their place in the coming new order.
The innoculation to this fatalistic self-subjugation is to "reveal what is at the end of every fork" (thank you Burroughs). How many of these Presbetyrians have ventured to open that dusky tome of tyrrany, the Quran, or explored the life of Muhammad, away from the smokescreen thrown up by Karen Hughes and John Esposito? We here, everyone who makes JW happen and breathe, are the intellectual line of defense of the west against the encroaching darkness. Groups like PCUSA are a most potent threat. Their danger exceeds that of the Jihadis.
Quijybo
Quijybo-
Even in the new testament, Jesus never went after the average "sinner" but he had a special word or two for these "whitewashed tombs" that pose as righteous men. More dangerous indeed!
“I think one way people can learn from one another is to learn the way people talk about themselves and describe their own reality.”
I thought that too, untill I statred visiting JihadWatch. Hearing ramblings of people like Qawuq and I'm glad I don't come in contact with many Muslims.
"The trouble is communication. Too much communication."-Homer Simpson
Once again Jade' manages to put a smile on my face.
Once again Homer Simpson's succinct wisdom shows us the way.
Once again my fellow Christians lead me to ask the question: "WHAT THE F**K IS IN THAT CENSER?!?!"
I'm used to seeing Church groups do some very stupid things but stopping in for a quick this and that with a terrorist group is more than even I would usually expect.
It's a shame also for the fact that the Pressies are a pretty easygoing Church that generally avoids uberfundamentalist readings of The Bible and that hand-waving, falling-on-the-floor behaviour that put people off Evangelical Churches.
. . . stopping in for a quick this and that with a terrorist group? What the f**k were you smoking that day?
Isn't JF Kerry part Jewish by birth?? Surely the arabs can't have been too happy with the Chruch's voting habits. I find it outrageous that such contacts occur . . . between Americans and Islamic terrorists with American blood on their hands.
You cannot judge Presbyterians by their leadership, just as you cannot judge myself by my Rabbi's political/religious leanings. One of the things I admire most about Christianity is the mosaic of groups here in the US and abroad. The great Japanese novel Silence by Shasaku Endo examines the Catholic strain in Japan which somehow survived for hundreds of years(although outlawed and relentlessly persecuted). Neglect, hatred towards adherants, and a lengthy interlude of zero interaction with mainstream catholicism could not defeat the faith . . . centered in the Nagasaki region.
Being Christian does not mean one needs to be a complete dhimmi wuss.
St Francis for example tried personally to comvert the Muslims to Christianity.
Exerpt from the following website, http://www.satucket.com/lectionary/Francis_Assisi.htm
In 1219, Francis went to the Holy Land to preach to the moslems. He was given a pass through the enemy lines, and spoke to the Sultan, Melek-al-Kamil. Francis proclaimed the Gospel to the Sultan, who replied that he had his own beliefs, and that moslems were as firmly convinced of the truth of Islam as Francis was of the truth of Christianity. Francis proposed that a fire be built, and that he and a moslem volunteer would walk side by side into the fire to show whose faith was stronger. The Sultan said he was not sure that a moslem volunteer could be found. Francis then offered to walk into the fire alone. The Sultan who was deeply impressed but remained unconverted. Francis proposed an armistice between the two warring sides, and drew up terms for one; the Sultan agreed, but, to Francis's deep disappointment, the Christian leaders would not. Francis returned to Italy, but a permanent result was that the Franciscans were given custody of the Christian shrines then in moslem hands.
St Francis also sent his Brothers to the Muslims as missionaries.
Here is an exerpt from an on-line book on St. Francis I found of one Franciscan btother's experience,
from,
http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/stf010091.htm
'Daniel, speaking with great energy, one of the Moors cut him across the head with his scimitar, from which he did not even wince, and another exhorted him to embrace the law of Mahomet, to save his life with honor. "Wretch!" exclaimed Daniel, "your Mahomet and all his followers are but ministers of Satan, and your Koran is but a series of lies; be no longer misled, but embrace the Christian faith."'.
No dhimmi he.
Oh yeah, forgot to mention St Francis is generally credited with being the second to come up with the Christmas nativity scene.
No points for guessing who was the first to get the idea :)
Merry CHRISTmas all !
St. Bonaventure (d. 1274), in his Life of St. Francis of Assisi, writes:
"It happened in the third year before his death, that in order to excite the inhabitants of Grecio to commemorate the nativity of the Infant Jesus with great devotion, [St. Francis] determined to keep it with all possible solemnity; and lest he should be accused of lightness or novelty, he asked and obtained the permission of the sovereign Pontiff. Then he prepared a manger, and brought hay, and an ox and an ass to the place appointed. The brethren were summoned, the people ran together, the forest resounded with their voices, and that venerable night was made glorious by many and brilliant lights and sonorous psalms of praise. The man of God [St. Francis] stood before the manger, full of devotion and piety, bathed in tears and radiant with joy; the Holy Gospel was chanted by Francis, the Levite of Christ. Then he preached to the people around the nativity of the poor King; and being unable to utter His Name for the tenderness of His love, He called Him the Babe of Bethlehem. A certain valiant and veracious soldier, Master John of Grecio, who, for the love of Christ, had left the warfare of this world, and become a dear friend of this holy man, affirmed that he beheld an Infant marvelously beautiful, sleeping in the manger, Whom the blessed Father Francis embraced with both his arms, as if he would awake Him from sleep. This vision of the devout soldier is credible, not only by reason of the sanctity of him that saw it, but by reason of the miracles which afterwards confirmed its truth. For the example of Francis, if it be considered by the world, is doubtless sufficient to excite all hearts which are negligent in the faith of Christ; and the hay of that manger, being preserved by the people, miraculously cured all diseases of cattle, and many other pestilences; God thus in all things glorifying his servant, and witnessing to the great efficacy of his holy prayers by manifest prodigies and miracles."
"St Francis is generally credited with being the second to come up with the Christmas nativity scene."
-- from a posting above
In Assisi, on Monte Subasio, where St. Francis was born and raised, and the Giotto or giottesque fresco-cycle of his life can now be seen, having been magically put back together again after the recent earthquake by wizards of the Belle Arti, a wonderful restaurant, with tables both indoors and, when the weather permits, even better tables outdoors (that bed-garden theme again) is called "La Stalla." I wouldn't mind being away, in that particular manger, having seven kinds of seafood, or just anything at all, right now.
The Presbyterians are Calvinists, they are also the fount of Dominion Theology, or Christian Reconstructionism, they are legion and pose (as does Gary North) and Lew Rockwell as libertarians,being adamant opponents of the (secular) state, also see Chalcedon Foundation, they are anti Zionist, the other half of that equation are the pro Zionists Baptists and Tim Lahaye crowd. they meet and break bread at the Council of National Policy and come together in the "culture war" against secularism.
The Christian Right has two halves, one zionist, the other anti Zionist.
I hate to break it to the good Jihad Watchers, but the Zionism of that half of the Christian Right (Presbyterians are also on the so called Christian Right) is based on antisemitism, as is the Left Behind crowd.. They believe that the Jews will burn in hell at the end times, save for the few that are redeemed by accepting Christ, whom these people do believe, was crucified by the Jews. As do do "true" catholics, hence the uproar about Mel Gibson's The Passion, which depicted Jews as Christ Killers.
It is earnestly believed by the antisemites (despite all evidence to the contrary, evidence they refute and refuse to accept) that Jews run the world, and especially the U.S., that Jews control the media, created and run the ACLU, Hollywood and are responsible for the "moral decay" of the West.
And it is true, Jews have been leaders in protection of civil liberties, and it is our civil liberties that has enabled America to rise head and shoulders above the rest of the world.
As I've seen many times, too many times, the conflation of terms e.g. Marxist/Communist/Socialist/leftist/liberal/antichrist/talmudic Judaism as one.
And that's why I take umbrage at this posturing and rhetoric against liberals and the left, because wittingly or not those who engage in that rhetoric are lending their voices to the Muslims and antisemites who habitually hate secularism and conflate all of the above together.
If Jihad Watchers fear and abhor secularist and secularism, they have good company because as the Islamic "intellectual" Mazheruddin Siddiqi put it, secularism is a greater threat to Islam than even Marxism.
Jew haters use a broad brush. Time to start painting with a new brush, with a fine and exact point, and not emulate the Muslims and antisemites.
The Hizbullah have a very frank Nazi-like Judeophobic ideology, although their hostility to Christians is being played down, so it seems, by their need not to overly alarm the Christians in Lebanon.
Their TV station, al-Manar, was taken off the French TV satellite because of virulent Judeophobia. [by the French Audio-Visual Council].
One of their Nazi-like remarks was: "The Jewish microbe is everywhere." I read this in Le Figaro back about 1987 or 88 after an election in France which had results that did not please Hizbullah, apparently because of the Jewish vote in France. The phrase quoted in Figaro was: Le microbe juif est partout.
It seems that our Presbyterian "peace-seekers" don't mind peace-seeking with fairly good, late 20th century facsimiles of Nazis.