Jihad Watch Board Vice President Hugh Fitzgerald discusses China, jihad, and realpolitik:
There has never been a major terrorist attack in China, though the suppression of Muslim Uighurs in Xinjiang, and their dilution by non-Muslim Han, could both be considered acts more dangerous to Islam than anything the governments of Western Europe have done. Might the absence of a response be explained by the understanding that the Chinese government and people, unlike those in the West, would likely respond to any such attacks in a way that would permanently affect the continued existence of Islam in China?Historically, in Xinjiang, cries of Jihad, as the Englishwoman and missionary Mildred Cable dryly noted in her wonderful "The Gobi," could be heard once every 30 years or so. The last major Muslim Jihad in that region was in 1930; it was bloodily suppressed. Foreign visitors to Xinjiang are always impressed by the superior hygiene of the Uighurs; they pay less attention to the unrest that Islamic tenets prompt. The Uighurs have houses that are neat and clean, the Chinese living cheek-by-jowl, per contra, are very unclean and un-neat. And no doubt the Uighurs have a point. But in the larger scheme of things, which from here on out is all that matters, Infidels have to take the side of Infidels, because in the end, alas, local Muslims with any axe to grind will not be immune to the larger message that Al-Jazeera and a thousand other sources of Muslim propaganda, helpfully translated into local languages, is spreading all over the world.
Outsiders sometimes extend to Muslims the same sympathy that they feel for the Tibetans. But the Tibetans make no claim to anyplace but Tibet. It is ironic that the destruction of the lamaseries, and of much of Tibetan culture, unique in the world, should be used to support the claims of Muslims, who are intent not on preserving various unique local cultures, but on extending Islam which, wherever it has gone, has actually worked to destroy the artifacts, and the historic memory, of everything non-Islamic.One should be able to support an independent Tibet and yet support the suppression of any move by Uighurs for greater independence in Xinjiang. They are different things, that only superficially appear to make the same appeal. One situation involves Islam; the other does not. And that makes, as Robert Frost would put it, all the difference.
By all means support an independent Tibet. Tibet deserves independence. But when it comes to Xinjiang, it might be necessary at least for the short term for Infidels simply swallow any scruples and be on the side of China, even ruthless Communist China, imposing the will of the people of Han on the people of Hui, or something like that.
It is an Us-Them situation. That is what those who wish us Infidels ill are taught to believe, or most of them, and that is the way in turn, Infidels, out of self-preservation, must come to see things.
The Chinese have also had cordial relations with Pakistan. One hopes that the Chinese, whatever their realpolitik calculations, will realize that aiding Pakistan is, in effect, aiding the world of Islam, a world which may seem only to have America, Israel, and a few other places in its sights, but in end, it has all of Asia as well.
And as the tide of Communism recedes, one hopes that fervent Christians, rather than the bearers of da'wa, will flood China with their message.
It is of note that in France and Italy, the communities most hostile to the Muslim immigrants are those of the Asian immigrants. They are at least as conscious of their own histories as are Muslims; yet unlike Muslims, they do not view their neighbors with hostility or hatred. They cause no trouble to anyone; they exhibit no signs of wanting to be other than productive and loyal members of the countries to which they have come. The contrast is stark and is beginning to be noticed, at least in the Corriere della Sera and Le Figaro (the latter has become the most sensible French newspaper, even at times publishing the truth about Islam, and about Iraq as well).
One hopes, finally, that Chinese everywhere remember the murder of 600,000 Chinese (described, of course, as "Communists" and "Communist sympathizers" for Western consumption) by Muslim Indonesians in the 1960s. Few paid attention; it seemed plausible -- Chinese, owing their allegiance to Communist China, and so on -- but in fact, the attacks were motivated almost entirely by a hatred that, whatever the jealousy over Chinese economic success (though almost all killed were poor peasants), had at its base -- as Chinese survivors noted -- a large element of religious fanaticism. Somehow, it does not seem to me that the apologetics that some Westerners (especially the most soft-minded of Christian clerics, who long ago lost their old-time religion and replaced it with the Church of Western Abasement and Self-Flagellation)fairly revel in will come quite so easily to Chinese, Christians or not. Ex oriente lux.
From the incisive Ali Sina (and which I posted elsewhere):
"Islam sees all of us as faceless worthless infidels and is determined to dominate or exterminate us all irrespective of what we believe. It would be foolish if we let our petty differences derive rifts between us and make the victory of Islam easy. "
While I loathe the Communists, I loathe the Islamists more. So, I think we should ignore
just about any bloody suppression of muslims anywhere.
Thanks for the prespective, Hugh.
One suspects that perhaps the USSR (post-Stalin or under Gorby at any rate) wasn't ruthless enough to dissolve islamic influences on sections of its citizenry. China by contrast has waged a demographic jihad and is quite likely to succeed where the russians failed. I only wish India had displayed the same ruthlessness and flooded Kashmir with demographic conquest....
Instead what we have is demographic annexation of swathes of the pristine christian northeast by Bangladeshi muslims.
Well, post-Gorby Russia has been good and ruthless. Just clumsy and incompetent.
Yes, do sympathise with Tibetans. Actually have Tibetan Monks here with quite a following at Royal Road. They are very well thought of - some
New Zealanders have become Buddhists, one young
lady a nun. Have visited them - they are very welcoming and non agressive about their religion,
don't entertain the slightest suspicion they will
become suicide bombers in spite of their wrongs.
But then Buddhism is a gentle,really peaceful Religion unlike Islam.
Re: Big China, we need all the allies we can get and there are reports that Chinese are
becoming Christians in their millions.Check that
out for us please Hugh!!
If it was good enough for U.S and Britain TO HAVE STALIN AS AN ALLY in last war, let China be our ally in Global Jihad. One thing for sure the
Han Chinese ain't going to play the Dhimmi to Muslims. For that at least we must respect them.
This is a splendid post by Hugh. I have felt for the longest time that we must call the Muslim's bluff. When facing a pliant generous and tolerant Western society, they seem like wicked children, willing and eager to take full advantage of the situation and greedy for all manner of concessions. When they are "managed" by tyrants such as Saddam Hussein, Assad, Moubarek, Khomeini, or Khaddafi, you don't here a peep from them. I believe some well placed counter terror measures, the real kind, would help to quiet their simmering rage -- I think the appeasement and concessions only encourage them to do far worse with the full expectation that they will gain even more.
We are dupes if we don't at least try pushing hard back at them. They already accuse us of every calumny and crime imaginable. How much worse could it get? Curtail them every time a Muslim transgresses. Since the ummah is a collective, punishment of the ummah should also be. Pretty soon the pressure we crave, and which has been utterly lacking, would begin to exert itself, and the Muslims would reign in the worst of the Jihadis. Up until now, their rampage has been without cost, or with nominal costs. Make them pay dearly to transgress against us, and the Jihad will be largely tamped down. It's worth a try. But will we assume the mantle of the stern master against this seditious bunch? I hope so!
Don't forget. Islam is a religion of agression and supression. That's why it appealed so much to the Mongols after they destroyed the Khwarizm.
Agression and supression is what the chicoms do best. Never underestimate the appeal of evil islam to evil chicoms.
Sorry, folks. I dissent.
Much as I respect Chinese culture, wish the best for the Chinese people, have ties of kinship with that culture, and pray for the continued progress of the Gospel in that benighted land, I cannot rally to the defense of a regime that is the last, best hope of 20th century totalitarianism and one which--in its missile drills on the Taiwan Strait--has shown that it is even willing to let even a supposed civil war turn nuclear. The Chinese Communists deserve every last bit of dissent they get.
If Sheikh Kabbani and the folks who fingered the Lackawanna Six had had the misfortune to be indigenous Muslims living under the PRC (Uighur, Kazakh, Hui, Kyrgyz, Salar, Tsat, Tatar, etc.), all their moderation would not have saved them from being forced to raise pigs.
The Chinese Communists cannot tolerate calls for independent labor unions or alternative political parties; but they do tolerate "think tanks" publishing articles on the supposed superiority of the Great Han race, disparaging blacks, whites, mixed-race people (that hurts!), and even pressing for the ultimate absorption of the Americas on the grounds that the Indians were originally "Mongoloid".
I'm in full sympathy with the "Back to Jerusalem" vision of many Chinese Evangelicals, but much as I'm for the conversion of Muslims, I cannot allow the Holy Gospel of Jesus Christ to be turned into a club over people's heads. There is a very real danger that the "Back to Jerusalem" movement could turn into an ugly "Yellow Man's Burden" in the desert back yard of my brethren in Fujian, Zhejiang, Henan, and Guangdong [check the map] if there is too close an association with Han settlement and the spread of the Gospel in Central Asia.
The Muslim Uighurs have stood up for persecuted Han Christians in the eastern and central provinces and they have been polite enough to me (as have their Hui coreligionists); I will not demonize them.
I've gotten in trouble for saying that making the world safe for homosexuality and abortion is not worth the sacrifice of my son. I'll stick my neck out again and say that I most emphatically will not offer up my son or ask any other middle-aged American to do the same for the sake of a decrepit Marxist ideology mixed with Prussianistic jackboot nationalism.
jsla,
Once again, I have an image of a hammer hitting the nail right on the head.
Kepha,
You can think what you want, and be willing to throw the fags to the mohammadans, but realize
using the golden rule that lots of people don't
want to sacrifice their sons to make the world safe for YOUR weird religious beliefs. Perfect example of what Ali Sina was talking about.
l always wondered why the muslims dont comlain much about the chinese..but then they dont say much iran that is about russia.. both these countries go to bat for them in the un...
Lord Lucan: " we british are too tolerant, they abuse us physically, mentally and verbally on a daily basis and now they have even bombed us yet we do nothing? complain and we are accused of islamaphobia, racism. "
Good observation here about your motherland. Do you know that your country opens its doors to Islamists that get booted out of other European countries? You have the most tolerant country but also the most stupid one.
I visited London in the late 90's and noticed the large Muslim presence living all throughout this great city. It is true than many of the Muslims in London don't want to intergrate. But don't tell that to the BBC. The BBC wants to convince the world that the white ethnic Christian population of Britian is the real nettlesome group that should change its ways.
I have no respect for the BBC. They are promoting Islam in Britian and despise the Christian heritage that helped build Britian.
Ethnic Chinese in Indonesia, Malaysia, Singapore, Southern Thailand often became the target of Islamic hate crimes and resentments.
Chinese-Malaysian have to pay more income taxes and barred from high govenment positions eventhought they have been around for 600 years. Even muslim police took advantage of them.
Check out http://www.malaysiakini.com
http://www.jeffooi.com
In Indonesia the Mullahs call for raping and kidnapping of infidels chinese-indonesian girls. http://www.huaren.org
http://www.huaren.com
The recent Jihad in Southern Thailand too has made ethnic chinese-Thai the target of beheading.
The regime in Beijing doesnt know a $#!t about Islam. They were the ones responsible for Pakistan getting the bomb. Jihad in Kashmir has been partially bankrolled from beijing. Chinese regime in its blind Indophobia has stoked the demon of Islamic Jihad in Kashmir and surrounding areas which now threatens to spread to Xinxiang as well.
btw lord luncan... are you sure you wanna have chavs run our country?
The US trade deficit with China is nearing $200 billion a year. Do the math. Over 5 years, that is a transfer of wealth of close to a trillion dollars.
Idiots like G Gordon Liddy claim it's nothing to be concerned about...that we're just trading paper (money) for goods. What he doesn't say is that those goods are used by us and become obsolete in a couple years, to be replaced by new imports. The paper (money) is used by China to finance the building of infrastructure and industry, espionage, R&D, defense spending, education, etc.
This is part of the larger problem of America living beyond its means. We consume $600+ billion a year more in goods and services than we produce. Our creditors - Japan, China, the Saudis, Tawain, Europe - are using their excess dollars to buy up America...our companies, industries, real estate and T-bills.
Pretty soon, we will be a vassal of these states (particularly China). This threat to our sovereingty and freedom is every bit as real as the Islamic menace. But like the issue of Islam, everyone is asleep at the wheel.
Vikrant:
The Chinese Communist authorities know plenty about Islam, including that it can be used against the West. They not only helped Pakistan with a nuclear weapons program, but helped North Korea and encouraged North Korea to sell to the Islamic rogues. Beijing is also in tightly with the thugs in Khartoum and Tehran.
The last-mentioned alliance shows that the Islamofascists themselves are ready to betray Muslims if it suits their purposes. Hence, there is no need for the USA to take sides when the Chinese Communists come up against jihadis who target them.
American:
I'm not asking anyone to sacrifice their sons for my religious beliefs, thank you. Christianity is the real religion of peace (evidenced by the fact that its followers can be shamed by the record of co-religionists who failed to practice what was preached). I have long argued that the Islamic world is stewing in its own juices, and if not given a reason to unite, it will be know more united now than it was when the followers of Ali and those of Mauwiyyah were busy killing each other.
Further, if we envision some kind of grand anti-Islamic coalition, we will have Christians lined up with radical socialists, sexual libertines, and all of the others who, so far, have given us the decline of the West. Such a coalition will be inherently unstable and unworkable.
Yes, keep our eyes open about the jihadi threat. But, at the same time, stay realistic.
"the murder of 600,000 Chinese in Indonesia"
This is nonsense. The killings of people in 1965/66 included the Chinese minority but to say they were the only ones killed is absurd. Most of those killed were in fact indigineous, non-practising Muslims, killed by their more 'devout' brothers.
I'd remind that historians and strategists alike have been pointing out for some time the inevitable Sino-Islamic Axis that will rock the world. Even Huntington has talked about it in Clash of Civilizations.