Fitzgerald: Muhammad and Aisha

Jihad Watch Board Vice President Hugh Fitzgerald discusses the nature and significance of Muhammad's most controversial marriage:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64:
Narrated 'Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

I quote Bukhari directly because one of the tactics in Muslim apologetics is to deny Aisha's age -- to insist disingenuously that "it isn't clear how old she was" or "some sources say she was 18 or 19." This is nonsense, and the speaker knows it is nonsense when he utters it to the credulous Infidels at Mosque Outreach gatherings and Muslim-Christian or Muslim-Jewish "Dialogues." All too often, of course, these “dialogues” become Muslim monologues, delivered so sweetly, with furrowed brows and expressions of sincerity.

Aisha was 6 when betrothed, nine when she had sexual intercourse with Muhammad. Muslims like to insist that he was not a "pedophile" because, you see, "pedophiles" do not marry older women, and most of Muhammad's 9 or 11 (but who's counting?) wives were not pre-adolescent. Robert Spencer and others have noted that his behavior was not unusual for the place and time in which he lived. But they have also noted that as uswa hasana, a model for all time, whatever Muhammad does is what Muslims must do, throughout time and space. There is no better pattern for life than the example of Muhammad, al-insan al-kamil, the Best of Men, to be emulated by all Muslims. Apologists for Islam today, Muslim and non-Muslim, try to explain away what he did as "of the period" and then, in the next breath, the same soothing spokesmen insist that his business with Aisha, or the way he treated prisoners, or had others treat them, is valid and worth emulating for all time. Which is it?

The most important modern example of this influence of the manners and morals of someone believed (by Believers) to have lived in 7th century Arabia, was the Ayatollah Khomeini. On coming to power that learned Shi'a theologian promptly reduced the marriageable age of girls to nine. If you didn't know before why he did this, you know why now.

This was not a dynastic marriage, that of Muhammad and Aisha. He had his eye on her since she was six, and when she picked up her toys and moved to his house, the intent was clear. Read the Hadith and the Sira. They make no bones about it. But even if such child-brides were not uncommon at the time because, for example European brides of 12 and 13 sometimes were betrothed to seal royal or aristocratic alliances, there is a big difference between a 9 year old (first spotted at age 6) and a girl aged 12 or 13.

Those who wish to find out more about Muhammad and Aisha should visit www.faithfreedom.org and www.answering-islam.org.uk. Both will have articles devoted to the matter.

And there is more than just Aisha. There were raiding parties, looting, seizing of women, killing of captives -- simply consult the Muslim versions of the Sira. They don't hide it. They are perfectly content with it. What they do not like is Infidels reading the same thing and coming to quite different conclusions. So they wish to hide as much of this from us as they can. Yet that concealment is an increasingly tough act, considering that it is all merely a click away, and eventually a lot of clicking will be going on as Infidels engage in the largest act of collective auto-didacticism in human history. Not because they want to, but because the actions of Muslims, in Dar al-Islam and Dar al-Harb, are making it unavoidable. What else can we Infidels be expected to do -- keep repeating, despite all the evidence, that Islam is a religion of "peace" and "tolerance" and leave it at that? While Muslim fanatics have said they will kill any woman, Muslim or non-Muslim, who appears without a burqa and veil anywhere in Bangladesh?

How much of this stuff are we expected to permanently ignore?

One has witnessed, in mosques, the damage a single well-informed Infidel can do to a whole evening of propagandistic nonsense -- simply by referring to Aisha, or Khaybar, or the Bani Qurayza, or mentioning the hadith (usually the hadith are never mentioned, nor the sira -- the dumb Infidels are kept from learning about those).

All one has to do is properly inform oneself. And that goes not only for individuals, but for F.B.I. agents, local police, journalists, and others. There is no justification, none, for not learning what is in Qur'an and hadith and sira -- and learning not from apologists, but from the very best sources of all -- including, most obviously, scholars such as Bat Ye'or, and ex-Muslims such as Ibn Warraq and Ali Sina.

You know the reason why: the civilization you save could be your own.

| 50 Comments
del.icio.us | Digg this | Email | FaceBook | Twitter | Print | Tweet

50 Comments

"You know the reason why: the civilization you save could be your own."

Indeed, but, you also might educate some muslims.

Most people in this life are trying their best to do the right thing(tm).

But, because everyone only can do their best, if their 'best' isn't good enough, they get stuck.

So, you can also think of all of this as enlightening these people and helping them find their way out of the trap they prayed themselves into.

Imli

1) Imli I think that you will find that at the usual level of indoctrination found in muslims as children and adults when added to the constant stream of rhetoric and misinformation from their mosques, it is only the very superior types who can throw off the shaclkles of Islam. Unfortunately these will never be in sufficient numbers to have any real effect.

Brainwashing from childhood + constant misinformation = incapacity to see a problem let alone confront it.

2)The Aisha "problem" has always been interesting in the greater context of Islam.

The main reason why men sleep with younger women (besides their inherent sexual allure) is because of a fear of rejection which is often based upon sexual inadequacy.

Thus a man with an increasing fear of rejection would sleep with younger women, girls, young girls, baby girls, animals and finally in the ultimate case, corpses. This is no joke and is well-known and documented.

Muhammad by his marriage to a 6yo pre-pubertal girl demonstrated a fear of rejection.
This was no doubt on account of him having had relationships with older women who, no doubt, found his constant delusional conversations with Allah not exactly conducive to a fulfilling sex life and said so..

The fact that he kept his hands off her until 9 tells me that he was aware that he was pushing the line and as even Muhammad had to abide by some rules other than his own (oops sorry… Allah’s).

The problem with this is that here is the probable origin of the Muslim male sexual inferiority complex which has led to so many Qur’anic restrictions and barbarisms.
eg: honour killings. female dress codes and other restrictions, female circumcision,
child marriages, virginity needs etc. While some of these are not directly due to Muhammad, all of them can be traced back to him or the Qur’an.

The effect this has on Muslim boys and men is that it creates an innate sexual fear of woman which means that adolescent libido is bottled up and he has to live with it, no doubt with difficulty, until marriage. In the meantime, as soon as he thinks some woman does not do her part he is likely to fly apart in a backed up libidinous violent rage. In fact their life in so many ways is under the thumb of the Muhammad control freak that you would expect violence to be just under the surface at all times.

So perhaps (and IMHO) many of the faults inherent within Islam are due to the fact that Muhammad was merely a dirty old man with either a small penis or an erection problem.

I agree that the victims of this cult are brainwashed from an early age, but, I believe that human beings have an amazing capability of learning.
Without the opportunity to change things, is there any point in trying to? :)

As for Mohammed waiting till Aisha was 9 -- my guess is that this is when she had her first period. (That doesn't really make it better!)

I wouldn't want to second guess whether Mohammed was feeling 'rejected' -- he might have just been after a second childhood, midlife crisis grief, we'll never know. Or, his wives read him the riot act, personally, if I was a man, I'd be very scared to have that many wives :-D

As for muslim men and boys being socially deficient when ti comes to interacting with women, that is hopefully gathering momentum. There is a great article in 'Die Zeit', unfortunatly it is in German[1]. The gist of it is that the social workers in the turkish areas of Berlin are having to flag a 'politically uncorrect problem' and are afraid to do so, unless anonymous.

What is happening is that muslims girls and women are on a pedestal, out of reach, and it is tolerated that the boys get German girlfriends. When things go wrong (things like assaults to make the pregnant girl abort), the girls are blamed for being 'sluts' and the mothers claim that their sons are too little to even bring home women.

The main problem is that to those young men, the girls they chat up have no value as people because of the poor social skills of the males which also are displayed towards their own sisters(I omit the long analysis here, but you can add 2+2 yourself)

Still, it must be possible to break the vicious circle, fact is that our society doesn't do ethnic cleansing(and I'm glad we don't) -- so far, we have successfully assimilated most 'aliens'. I'm sure there must be a way with those folks as well, if not the adults, then at least their children.

Imli
[1]http://www.zeit.de/2005/51/Moabit

Imli that is an excellent summary.

Howeve 9yo with periods in those times? I strongly doubt that. the average age for menses
only 100 yrs ago was 14. However in a warmer climate it could have been lower but not as low as 9 yo. Even now that is extremely uncommon in Australia. 11 is about normal minimum now with the occasional unfortunate 10yo.

Do you think that turkish muslims in germany are more truly westernised than say arab muslims there? Do you think that german turks ameliorate their Islamic traits and beliefs over time and improve with each generation of do they exacerbate like elsewhere?

There is another Hadith from Bukari in which Aisha discusses her de-flowering, saying "nothing surprised me more than when Allah's Apostle came to me in the firenoon."

I've had many on-line discussions with Muslims over the last 5 years over this issue. The level of self-deception and denial is unfathomable.

Some say that the calander was different back then, that Aisha was really 14 by today's standadrds. Others suggest what Zathras touched on, that the warmer climates brought early maturity.

One American convert to Islam, whose name I can't recall but had a "Squires" in it, wrote a fascinating article which unapolagetically acknowledged that "9 years old means 9 years old." He went on to write that Muslims should gladly follow the example of the Prophet and not be intimidated by Western mores.

I once knew a strongly dhimmified South Asian woman who insisted that discussions of Aisha's age are counter-productive because Muslims are offended by the topic. I disagree vehemently. If Muslims are ever to be weaned from their crippling psychological dependence on Islam, they must be confronted with the ample contradictions and intolerance of their religion.

In another Hadith, Muhammad orders the murder of a pregnant poetess who had ridiculed him in his verse. After the dirty deed, the perpetrator comes to Muhammad to express his concern over what has happened.

Allah's Apostle replies "two billy-goats won't even knock their heads together over it."

This is ample evidence of his callous, mafia-like disregard for human life.

Muslims and non-Muslims alike must be made aware of the profound moral failings of the Prophet Muhammad. The Ahadith provide an invaluable source.

That should read "forenoon."

It is the description of how her nurse or Mother washed her face before she was taken into Mohammed that got me. She had been playing with her friends on a swing when she was called and was out of breath. Then, according to another version afterwards he pulled back a curtain in her room and found her cuddly toys, including a horse with rag wings. Which is more proof of her youth.
Could that have been what he was dreaming about during his "night journey"? The original Al Buraq was really Aisha's beanie baby horse.

Pythagoras have you seen this article by Abul Kasem about Muhammad's violations of the Qur'an?

http://www.mukto-mona.com/Articles/kasem/muhammad_violated_quran091205.htm

I personally think that I have as much a chance of talking to God as did Muhammad but I will spare you the reasons as to why I think this so as not to upset the believers here.

The Aisha thing was probably what clinched it for me. I just can't get past it. Apologists and PC types say things like, 'But you shut down dialogue if you ask Muslims to acknowledge that Mohamed was a paedophile'. Well, yes, you do. But so what? This 'marriage' alone should be enough to put anyone off Islam.

"Do you think that turkish muslims in germany are more truly westernised than say arab muslims there? Do you think that german turks ameliorate their Islamic traits and beliefs over time and improve with each generation of do they exacerbate like elsewhere?"

Speaking from a safe distance, I have the impression that the fortress is fraying at the edges.

Also, most Turks are not as religious (for example, they drink Efes (a beer) and Raki (pernod like schnaps). There is also a strong secular military back home who takes a very dim view of radical islam.

It mainly is a messy mix, since the majority of turks in Germany are country folk, who are completely different to city dwellers in their outlook.

In general, the parents keep themselves to themselves, but the kids, who go to German schools obviously at times have different ideas and dreams about their future. Islam itself is a bit secondary here, but it is the flavour that is forming and dictating the partiachal structures that are so destructive.

Most turks simply don't care/know too much about Islam, religion is a stick used when convenient, and ignored when it is annoying. A lot of the women are illiterate and cannot speak German -- what do you think the chances are that they know what Islam actually is, other than some hazy idea about 'the right way'? Their menfolk often aren't that much better off btw. Clinging to the 'Islmaic cooking recipe for life(tm)' is the only dependable thing those people have.

Schooling their children properly really is the key -- to free those kids (boys and girls) from traditions that are pressed upon them, and to enable them to live the modern lives that a lot of them know is within reach. Only education and protection will be helpful here in any way, but as concerns the older generations, I'm sad about it, but they are hopeless dinosaurs.

Imli

Thanks..so there is a chance until the madrassas grab hold of the children

Perhaps that is an avenue..but a very controversial one...ban madrassas everywhere!!

Still the alternative: "the final solution of the Islamic problem" is far worse.

If western governments could be convinced that madrassas are pernicious places of violent political indoctrination as opposed to religious schools there couldn be a chance.

This is a possible tack IMHO

http://islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=5788

married at 6 joined him at 9. so what if a moslem site says it, us infidels will be accused of lying.


with father's consent a pre-pubescent girl can marry
http://islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=12796

There was also some mention of pre-pubescent girl on what happens when a husband dies. (no it didn't say she could have her toys back)


for some humour see how BDSM is ok but elsewhere (http://islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=631) on the same site it is not ok to even look at your partner's tackle or use anything other than your tackle and your finger!
http://islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=4398


not so humourous:

"FREQUENTLY FACED" situations of father's molesting relatives and the prescription that a son's wedding must be dissolved as a result or touching the son's wife!!!
http://islam.tc/ask-imam/view.php?q=15789

The presciption that to prevent incest and lust women and men should be separated and women covered incites me to religious hatred every time I see a covered women. I object to be being told I am unable to control myself or respect women. It pisses me off big time because everytime one covered woman walks past the accusation that as a male I am unable to control lust or treat women well is spoken in actions louder than words.

If they thought that they should invent a chastity device for men and give the key's to mothers and wives!!!!

and Allah Ta'ala Knows Best
my ass

In this piece Hugh Fitzgerald writes with the clarity, simplicity and power of Ali Sina.

So, it is fitting to put a link to Ali Sina's riveting essay, "Why I left Islam", in the comments section.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina/why_i_left_islam.htm

Folks should pass this one around.

Muslims of present times know that having sex with a nine year old girl is not correct. This is well explained by the fact that middle aged Arabs coming to India for marrying(?legitimized prostitution)are not offered nine year daughters by Indian muslim parents. They also know it very well this crime is paedophila otherwise these parents would have forced Indian govt. to lower the marraige age to nine years for muslims. Shariat laws are legitimate (in India) for Indian muslims. This part of Civil Law of India is known as Muslim Personal Law.

Muslims of present times know that having sex with a nine year old girl is not correct. This is well explained by the fact that middle aged Arabs coming to India for marrying(?legitimized prostitution)are not offered nine year daughters by Indian muslim parents. They also know it very well this crime is paedophila otherwise these parents would have forced Indian govt. to lower the marriage age to nine years for muslims. Shariat laws are legitimate (in India) for Indian muslims. This part of Civil Law of India is known as Muslim Personal Law.

Regarding Aisha and her age, we may as get it from the horse's mouth (camel's mouth maybe?). The following excerpt is from Islam Online - just watch the tortured reasoning.

Question: "Dear scholars, thanks for your efforts in educating people about Islam. But would you help us address the misconceptions filling the mind of some people, especially the Westerners about the Prophet’s marriage to `Aisha, may Allah be pleased with her, as they claim it to be a sign of child abuse? "

Answer:

"As for the Prophet’s condition before this marriage, it clearly explained what we’ve said that it was a purely sublime aim and purpose that motivated him to marry `Aisha. That’s why the marriage was not consummated until sometime after the emigration to Madinah, when she had reached maturity.

"One important point we have to clarify here is that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, when proposing to `Aisha, was not the first suitor, for, according to many historians, Jubair ibn Mut`am proposed to her before the Prophet, peace and blessings for him. This gives an indication that `Aisha, may Allah be pleased with her, was mature enough for marriage at that age."

"After the passage of many centuries, we find now some Orientalists who try to strike a comparison between the conditions of our present time and what was existing 1400 years ago. They are trying to apply the criterions of the Western society to that society that existed in the Arabian Peninsula very long ago. "

"It should be noted that in the hot regions, it’s normal for a girl to attain maturity at a very early age. Thus the case is totally different from that which does exist in the cold regions where a girl does not attain puberty before 21 [Physicians maintain that the age of puberty in the hot regions normally ranges from 9 to 16]. At all rates, it should be stressed that the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, on marrying `Aisha, never aimed at fulfilling a lust or satisfying a desire; rather, his aim was to strengthen his relation with the most beloved Companion of his. "

Speaking about cold climates, what a snowjob.

http://www.islamonline.net/servlet/Satellite?pagename=IslamOnline-English-Ask_Scholar/FatwaE/FatwaE&cid=1119503544940

"There is no better pattern for life than the example of Muhammad, al-insan al-kamil, the Best of Men, to be emulated by all Muslims. Apologists for Islam today, Muslim and non-Muslim, try to explain away what he did as "of the period" and then, in the next breath, the same soothing spokesmen insist that his business with Aisha, or the way he treated prisoners, or had others treat them, is valid and worth emulating for all time. Which is it?"


I quote from above:

Muslims of present times know that having sex with a nine year old girl is not correct. This is well explained by the fact that middle aged Arabs coming to India for marrying(?legitimized prostitution)are not offered nine year daughters by Indian muslim parents.

I now speak from personal knowledge:

Arab/Saudi men used to fly over to bombay not just for female prostitutes but for young boys too. If moslem indians are so up to date with morality, no doubt they will have stopped this practice.

By using the past tense here, I can say this disguisting behaviour used to happen but I am not informed of today's situation in mumbai.

Perhaps another reader could put us up to date?

I know there was a documentary recently that showed arabs marrying 16yr old indians for a temporary sexual fling and then leaving them.

I wonder if those 16yr olds made their own choice about this, not! I guess that is what the contributor was implying by putting "legitimised prostitution" in brackets.

I'm not sure the parents would force the government to lower the age to 9 as that would shatter any illusion of Islam being associated with civilistation.

This moslem family law sure sucks if you are a teenage girl legitimised into prostitution under the banner of marriage. don't forget this example when moslem family law is advocated in the west.

Height of Early sexual maturity of females in hot(islamic) climates- According to reliable islamic doctors of Islamic World,muslim female babies have now started mensturating while they are still inside their mother's womb. This was detected by Islamic ultrasound machines, however kafir ultrasound machines refused to show this great islamic discovery of 21st.century.

Aisha's story is reminiscent of cult leaders all over the world. Many cult leaders have been known to use the daughters of their brainwashed followers, with the parents hearty blessing.

"They [Muslims in India]also know it very well this crime is paedophila otherwise these parents would have forced Indian govt. to lower the marraige age to nine years for muslims."
-- from a Muslim poster above

The Muslims of India "would have forced Indian govt. to lower the marriage age to nine years for muslims" [sic] but held back because they knew it was wrong, it was "pedophilia"? Nonsense. What Muhammad, uswa hasana, al-insan al-kamil, did cannot possibly be wrong. What he did was good for all time and all places. The reason Indian Muslims have not demanded that the age be reduced to nine years is that such a demand would not be granted, and enough of them have been uplifted by contact with a circumambient non-Muslim society (the same is true for some of the Muslims in Lebanon, insensibly improved by their contact with large numbers of Christians) to realize that such a demand would harm the image of Islam.

But in Iran, when that sincere and well-trained Shi'a theologian the Ayatollah Khomeini (it's not easy to get to be an Ayatollah; you have to memorize a lot of the canonical texts, and of course you take them very much to heart, as all Muslims are required to) came to power, he promptly lowered the marriageable age of girls to nine.

What explains that if not the model of Muhammad? Why else would he have done it?

So, to the poster above, one question: is Muhammad a model for all mankind in everything he said, and did, or isn't he? Which is it?

Indeed, an let us not forget the Qur'an, the holy word of Allah, and the generosity of Allah when it comes to the Prophet's desires:

Muslim men can only have up to four wives, but the Prophet can have as many as he wants.

Peace be upon him...

A sample of Islamic Scientific Thought, offered by a poster above:

"According to reliable islamic doctors of Islamic World,muslim female babies have now started mensturating while they are still inside their mother's womb. This was detected by Islamic ultrasound machines, however kafir ultrasound machines refused to show this great islamic discovery of 21st.century."

And you were worried only about that School Board in Kansas.

From the website of Bounty.com an organisation for new families (very useful goodie bag as I recall)

Chapter 1 - Meet your Newborn.

The genitals – babies of both sexes may have slightly swollen breasts and genitals; the effect of your hormones still at work in the baby’s body,which will soon wear off......Sometimes baby girls have slight vaginal bleeding, which is quite normal,caused by high hormone levels at birth.

http://www.bounty.com/upload/PDF/Your%20baby%20guide/yb2_05%2002%20your%20newborn.pdf

This is not early puberty, it's Mum's haywire hormone levels.

"Muhammad by his marriage to a 6yo pre-pubertal girl demonstrated a fear of rejection".

Zathras, you forgot to mention the fact that Mohammed was over FIFTY years old at the time of him deflowering Aysha who was NINE.
His age makes it worse as he was OLD enough to be her grandfather.

Why the need for such a scholarly analysis of the murderous, pedophile rapist "prophet"? But you can go further than that, and claim that some Muslim behavior doesn't necessarily stem from the Qur'an---on the contrary, the Qur'an is a mere justification of such behavior. What kind of people do you see convert to Islam? Decent people? Look at the lowlife scum who convert to Islam in any Western country. Islam gives its male converts the right to abuse women and kill Whites (who happen to be kafir), which is exactly what some members of our society want. You worry about mosques---they're NOTHING compared to the recruitment to Allah's cause that goes on in prison. On the other hand, what kind of people do you see LEAVING Islam? They are necessarily decent people. Evil attract evil and repels good.

The "race riots" in Australia are just the beginning of the end of multiculturalism and political correctness in the West, and maybe the timid dhimmis of East Asia and India will follow this example as well, if they want to survive.

"Why the need for such a scholarly analysis of the murderous, pedophile rapist "prophet"?"

Because we need to win the argument by convincing our own people that we have a serious problem.

Our main problem is to get people to listen, look and think!

Right now, many people think that we are a cranky minority, some would probably confuse us with racists.

The way to beat this is patiently, with solid proof and open discussion.

Imli

"Our main problem is to get people to listen, look and think!"
-- posted by Imli

Produce a dramatic biographical film of Mohammed -- the real Mohammed -- and people would be listening, looking, and thinking like never before.

Why is it against the law to envision Mohammed sexing it up with his hot child lover. It's true, ain't it? If Moslems are offended by the truth of their own sacred scripture, well, they can lump it.

Enough whitewashing. Let Mohammed speak for himself!

What we have in Islam is a pathological mental disorder masquerading as a religion. I'm no psychologist but what I've read so far in the Q'uran, surras and the haddiths lead me to the conclusion that the great prophet was obsessive compulsive and possible schizophrenic.

Way, way up toward the top of this thread, a posting by Imli avers that Muslim boys in Germany deem German girls to have no value as people because of the Muslim boys' "lack of social skills." This is probably true, but peripheral to the fact that Muslim males are permitted to have sex with kafirs, who, as unbelievers, are less than human, as opposed to Muslim girls, with whom sex outside of marriage is forbidden. Intercourse with kafir girls, however, is not deemed fornication (a capital offense for Muslims), and is perfectly acceptable as a means of managing the male Muslim's sexual urges. I cite the behavior of the devout Muslim Mohammed Atta and his cohorts, who, before murdering 3,000 people in the service of Islam, frequented strip clubs and consorted with prostitutes in America. Atta et al. knew that this was permissible behavior, as none of the women involved were Muslims.

THE PSYCHOANALYTIC ROOTS OF ISLAMIC TERRORISM
TO THE POINTNEWS.COM ^ | JUNE 3, 2003 | PHYLISS CHESLER, PhD.

"In the battle for Fallujah, terrorists used women and children as human shields against American soldiers. On April 27, 2004, in Jerusalem, Hamas used a Palestinian human bomb to kill two Palestinian alleged "collaborators." On April 28, 2004, even as UN envoy, Lakhdar Brahimi, was busy characterizing Israeli policy as the "great poison in the region," Jordanian police arrested Al Qaeda operatives who were quite literally trying to launch a chemical poison attack that might have killed 80,000 Jordanians and Americans. And, on May 1, 2004, in Gaza, Palestinian gunmen shot and killed a Jewish woman who was eight-months pregnant together with her four young daughters.


Despite enormous and continuing denial on the part of left and liberal ideologues and the media, we are facing an exceedingly pathological strain of Islamofascist terrorism. So a crucial question must be asked: from a psychological and anthropological point of view, what kind of culture produces human bombs, glorifies mass murderers, and supports humiliation-based revenge?
According to Minnesota based psychoanalyst and Arabist, Dr. Nancy Kobrin, it is a culture in which shame and honor play decisive roles and in which the debasement of women is paramount. "

more....
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1277756/posts

I just figured it out:

David Koresh was a weak reincarnation of Mahomet!

Some general observations on Aisha.

1: a six year old is a small child in any culture. To hold that she already has a suiter just shows what kind of fellow perverts Muhammed had attracted to his message.

2. The age of the onset of pubescence is more affected by diet than by climate and without a serious hormone inbalance no six year old will enter puberty. Even if she did, she is STILL just a six-year old!!!!!!!!!

3. While a normal man can recognize and admire the beauty of prepubescent girls, only a man with a serious moral deficiency will see them as sexual possibilities.

4. The rape of a small child is criminal and degenerate at all times, in all places, and in every culture. To defend it shows a moral blindness that is inhuman.

Last, other cultural cases are not comparable. Many cultures had child marriages but their reasons were social and economic, and not based on a desire for sexual gratification. Even then, there was always something considered unseemly about them.

Some Muslim apologists have pointed to the case of King David and Abishag, a pubescent (NOT pre-pubescent) girl brought to David to "keep him warm" when he was an old man (I Kings ch. 1). Interestingly, the scripture as well as the commentaries of the Rabbis and the Christian Fathers all agree that this was not a good thing. In fact, the very meaning of Abishag's name implies "given to error" as the end result was rebellion and death.

Others point to Mahatma Gandhi who shared a bed with his young nieces. But Gandhi was a celibate and there was nothing sexual in this act.

Even most Shi'ite Muslims refuse to defend the marriage with Aisha, pointing out that it was opposed by both Ali and Fatima as improper. It is rare to even find the name "Aisha" among the Shia.

As I wrote earlier, Muhammed mental instablity seemed to have become unrestrained after the death of Khadijah. The rape of Aisha would appear to be the culmination of his insanity.

Mohammed Atta and his cohorts, who, before murdering 3,000 people in the service of Islam, frequented strip clubs and consorted with prostitutes in America. Atta et al. knew that this was permissible behavior, as none of the women involved were Muslims.

Posted by: commonsense at December 20, 2005 06:09 PM

After Atta completed his holy mission in America and his face was plastered all over television for six months, I wonder what went through the minds of the prostitutes he consorted with.

It must be quite a sobering experience to realize that last night's trick was the same guy who just murdered three thousand Americans. Sounds like almost enough to write a titillating short story, if not a full length novel, or would that be considered in bad taste? No, nothing is in bad taste these days except telling the truth about Islam.

I've been thinking quite a lot about the miserable multicultural hell that so many academic elites, "Progressives", and other assorted intelligentsia have been foisting on the Western world for the last forty years. I am convinced that the uncannily similar circumstances in Europe, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and America are not coincidental. There is an insidious master plan behind the massive invasion of our countries by third-world immigrants. There has to be!

Massive immigration began at about the same time in all Western countries, consisting mainly of third-world muslim immigrants. Europe was hit harder because it is closer to the source, making it easier for them to get to Europe than to the U.S. In the European countries hardest hit by unassimilable muslims, laws have been enacted to prohibit natives from rejecting the immigrants; hate speech laws and anti-racism laws. Some in Congress are trying to enact similar laws here, which I expect to see by next year. With these laws on the books, if people voice their contempt for these incongruous savages and their vile cultural practices they will be arrested and imprisoned for breaking the law. So the way I see it, Western governments are shoving these rejects from humanity down our throats and making damn sure we suffer their presence in silence---or else.

Throughout the mass migration process from east to west, Westerners were indoctrinated by the media, schools, and in the workplace in the doctrine of multiculturalism, political correctness, diversity, and moral relativity. The wonder and awe of the multicultural "tapestry" is touted like some magical cure for all that ails us. No longer do people hop on a plane and visit far-away places to partake of disparate cultures; now you can find them a few miles from your home but without the exotic, inticing qualities advertised in travel brochures.
All cultures have sordid, shady components and an underclass that suffers from chronic poverty, illiteracy, dysfunctional families, and an inability to cope as mature, adult human beings. We have them in America; they've been here forever and I wouldn't dream of dumping them in someone else's lap to feed, clothe, and diaper. But they are being dumped on us from Mexico, Latin America, and every Islamic hellhole on the planet.

I believe this is the result of a systematic, defined agenda that was hatched years ago, probably in the bowels of the despicable UN and with the help of Ted Kennedy and his cosmopolitan cronies. George Bush is an active and enthusiastic participant in this insidious, utopian debacle. I pray it will soon end, but I fear it's going to get much, much worse. Soon our countries will be unrecognizable with no defining culture at all, just millions of people with no commonalities and no sense of community.

This pedophilia seems to be shared by both Muhammed and his companion Umar (634-644 A.C.) who suceeded Muhammed as the Second so-called rightly-guided Caliph.

"Imam of Ahl'ul Sunnah Allamah Zurqani in Sharh Muwwasab Volume 7 page 9 states: 'Umme Kalthum, wife of Umar did not attain puberty by the time that he had died'".

This is from the Shia Muslim website: http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/umme_kulthum/en/index.php defending the Shi'te version of Islam against the Wahhabis.

Susanp:

I don't think Atta ever did have sex with those females in clubs that he frequented.

These guys are too screwed up to relate to a female, any female. They were curious, sure, but I'm sure they saved it all for the 72 'houris' and the 24 boys in Mo's bordello in the sky.

Let me know if you know more than me on this. But after all I know, they wanted to remain 'pure' for the great Allaballawallah...

Provoslavni

I already considered diet and ignored it.

Her father was one of Muhammad's closest followers. At that time Muhammad was doing very well finacially(loot slaves) and if this man could not have fed his children well then who could have?

I personallyu doub that she menstruated before 12 years of age.

For the above person who talked about female infants bleeding, we can go further. Remember the Indonesian woman whose unborn child was heard to be saying Qur'anic prayers in utero?
Of course her "water" had not broken and this was not physically possible but all of islam believed it.

Any reports on how the Islamic Pedophilia Program is working in Iran?

Surely the muftis and mullahs have loaded up on the 9-year old foxes in those palaces they've built up in the hills above Tehran and Qom.

Hotel California.

Zathras,

"Remember the Indonesian woman whose unborn child was heard to be saying Qur'anic prayers in utero"

What? You don't believe this?

I guess you also doubt the veracity of the California woman who saw Jesus in her taco. Or that Elvis is working at a Burger King in Nashville to support his two-headed son by the space alien babe.

If it's proclaimed by Muslim scholars then it must be as true as the news in your supermarket tabloids :)

Everytime one reads about Islam the following words come up.

ISLAM............HOW CAN I GET SOME SEX?
ISLAM............WOMEN WHORES!
ISLAM............INFIDEL IS FILTHY PIGS.
ISLAM............HOW CAN I GET SOME SEX?
ISLAM............FAMILY HONOR.....KILL HER!
ISLAM............HOW CAN I GET SOME SEX?
ISLAM............FEMALE CUNTS...DESERVE BEING RAPED!
ISLAM............SHE BETTER BE A VIRGIN......PURE SEX!
ISLAM............TEMPORARY MARRIAGE......PRETEND SEX!
ISLAM............HOW CAN I GET SOME SEX?
ISLAM............VIVA LAS VEGAS......SEX.......SEX......SEX!
ISLAM............SAVE MYSELF.....DO JIHAD!
ISLAM............I REALLY LIKED THAT SEX!
ISLAM............IT'S OK......YOU JUST HAD SEX WITH A INFIDEL WHORE! THANKS MOJO........

"Muhammad by his marriage to a 6yo pre-pubertal girl demonstrated a fear of rejection. This was no doubt on account of him having had relationships with older women..."
-- posted by Zathras

Like mommy, who got rid of baby Mohammed the day he was born.

"The fact that he kept his hands off her until 9..."
-- posted by Zathras

We don't know that. All the holy & sacred Islamic scriptures tell us is that he didn't make penile penetration of the little girl's vagina until she turned 9.

I refer you to President Clinton for instruction on how much can be done short of that.

The uncontrollable libido of the muslim male requires the females to be suffer the humiliation and discomfort of the burka. How about solving the problem with a castration blade instead?

Even most Shi'ite Muslims refuse to defend the marriage with Aisha, pointing out that it was opposed by both Ali and Fatima as improper. It is rare to even find the name "Aisha" among the Shia.
Posted by Provoslavi

Then why did the demon Khomeini lower the age of marriage in Iran to age nine? Why did he write that hideous book in which he sanctioned sodomizing infant females (and many other fiendish perversities)? The Satanic Khomeini is revered and idolized by Shi'ite muslims. Fully veiled muslimas were marching around in Dearborn not long ago, carrying hideous images of this demon from Hell.

I saw it on the news and I was deeply offended at the sight of that wicked monster. Do you suppose it would do any good for me to complain? Of course it wouldn't; I am a member of the oppressive majority so I have to like it or lump it.

The Shi'ites are not in a position to disapprove of anything their satanic prophet did; that is blasphemy. They are expected to emulate his nefarious life and the filthy ayatollahs are his most dedicated acolytes. It's no wonder they defend everything he did---that gives them a free pass to be lecherous, murderous, thieving fiends too.

Islam is preoccupied with sex. But then so are we. Could there be a relationship between our all-holds-barred approach to sex over the past forty years and the rise of this most pernicious and deplorable infection called Islam? In the big scheme of things, and as much as I wanted to vomit after reading Otterfish's link above in the Free Republic by Phyllis Chesler, can we really see ourselves as morally superior when we look the other way on adultery, teeny-bopper dating and in-your-face homosexual PDA? We need every bit of strength we can muster, including and perhaps, especially, moral strength, to fight this superhuman foe. If we point one finger at them, we point three fingers back at us.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be stopped. I'm saying that in order to stop them, we can't ignore what we ourselves do in the sexual realm and expect the enemy to change. I think it's about cause and effect...If I can't or won't control my sexual appetites I have no credible way to enforce others doing so. But that being said, what kind of a world are we creating for our children and grandchildren. Is this the kind of crap they have to look forward to under Sharia? And here's the nitty gritty about this:

The Moslems control outward things. But they don't control inward things. They want to stop us from doing whatever we want to do. They beat us into submission with what "Allah" wants. But then they don't follow it themselves. All this sexual loophole crap. It really is a filthy and vile way to live.

What I didn't understand was why would a man not want to have a fulfilling sexual relationship with his wife if it was available to him? Why would he prefer to not have his wife derive any pleasure from the sexual act, in fact, take away any possiblity of her enjoying sex and destroying any possiblity of building intimacy in their relationship because a) she has lost all respect for her abuser & b) she has underlying resentment seething & c) she sees him using her for his own enjoyment, all the while knowing she will never be able to partake of or share in the pleasure of the act. Do these guys really prefer to have their wives just lie there and think about their grocery lists or would they rather have a loving, fully participating partner that gives back freely?

Islam is preoccupied with sex. But then so are we. Could there be a relationship between our all-holds-barred approach to sex over the past forty years and the rise of this most pernicious and deplorable infection called Islam? In the big scheme of things, and as much as I wanted to vomit after reading Otterfish's link above in the Free Republic by Phyllis Chesler, can we really see ourselves as morally superior when we look the other way on adultery, teeny-bopper dating and in-your-face homosexual PDA? We need every bit of strength we can muster, including and perhaps, especially, moral strength, to fight this superhuman foe. If we point one finger at them, we point three fingers back at us.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be stopped. I'm saying that in order to stop them, we can't ignore what we ourselves do in the sexual realm and expect the enemy to change. I think it's about cause and effect...If I can't or won't control my sexual appetites I have no credible way to enforce others doing so. But that being said, what kind of a world are we creating for our children and grandchildren. Is this the kind of crap they have to look forward to under Sharia? And here's the nitty gritty about this:

The Moslems control outward things. But they don't control inward things. They want to stop us from doing whatever we want to do. They beat us into submission with what "Allah" wants. But then they don't follow it themselves. All this sexual loophole crap. It really is a filthy and vile way to live.

What I didn't understand was why would a man not want to have a fulfilling sexual relationship with his wife if it was available to him? Why would he prefer to not have his wife derive any pleasure from the sexual act, in fact, take away any possiblity of her enjoying sex and destroying any possiblity of building intimacy in their relationship because a) she has lost all respect for her abuser & b) she has underlying resentment seething & c) she sees him using her for his own enjoyment, all the while knowing she will never be able to partake of or share in the pleasure of the act. Do these guys really prefer to have their wives just lie there and think about their grocery lists or would they rather have a loving, fully participating partner that gives back freely?

Hi Susanp;

You wrote: "Then why did the demon Khomeini lower the age of marriage in Iran to age nine? Why did he write that hideous book in which he sanctioned sodomizing infant females"

Khomeini suceeded in merging Shi'ism and Salafism creating a system that kept the worst of both. You see this in the nutty neo-nazi President of Iran as well as in Hezbullah.

Traditional Shi'ism was the religion of the oppressed within Islam but today has become just like Sunnism. It is rare to fing any Muslim group today that rejects this evil oppression known as Sharia...only the Ismailis of the Aga Khan, some Alawites, and a few liberal Muslims like the exiled Shah Reza of Iran. And they aren't even considered to be real Muslims by the majority.

Khomeini also issued a fatwa that if a man had sex with a sheep, he was not allowed to kill and eat the sheep, beause now they had a familial relation with each other. This form of perversion is rife within the Islamic system because devout believers always strive to emulate their religion's founder: Christians try to emulate peace and righteousness of Jesus Christ, Buddhists try to follow the enlightened path of the Buddha, while Muslims emulate the sick perversions of Muhammed.

Khomeini also issued a fatwa that if a man had sex with a sheep, he was not allowed to kill and eat the sheep, beause now they had a familial relation with each other. This form of perversion is rife within the Islamic system because devout believers always strive to emulate their religion's founder: Christians try to emulate peace and righteousness of Jesus Christ, Buddhists try to follow the enlightened path of the Buddha, while Muslims emulate the sick perversions of Muhammed.

Posted by: Provoslavni at December 22, 2005 11:40 AM
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I thought the rule for bestiality required the debauched muslim to kill the animal after the sex act, and that it was forbidden for him to eat or sell the meat in his own village, but allowable to sell it to total strangers a little farther away!

The finer points of Islamic depravity are irrelevant; Islam and its arabesque rules for deviant behavior are repulsive. I suppose these clowns believe that by imposing rituals and silly edicts on barbaric acts, they magically become legitimate and civilized.

Susanp: Please identify the book in which Khomeini sanctioned sodomizing infant females - I would be very interested in reading it, and I am sure that others who visit this site would be as well.

Susanp,

You may be correct about the details. I read an English translation of Khomeini's "Islamic Government" as well as several of his fatwas when I worked for the US government in the 1980s so my memory is hazy on the specifics. What I do remember clearly is that Khomeini did approve of beastiality with female sheep.

Several of us made many crude jokes after the translation was distributed and you're right that the finer points of such depravity are irrelevant when dealing with a system that sanctions such perversity.

commonsense, the name of the book is Tahir-al Wasilah and it's a jewel, guaranteed to precipitate gut-wrenching nausea. The upstanding, patriotic, law-abiding jihadists in Dearborn adore Khomeini. There is a new watch-dog group monitoring the Islamic community in Michigan; apparently it contains a disturbing militant element that bears close scrutiny. Link below.


http://www.geocities.com/anti_mcws/







Not Peace But A Sword by Robert SpencerDid Muhammad Exist? The Muslim Brotherhood in America, by Robert SpencerIslamophobia: Thoughtcrime of the Totalitarian FutureMuslim Persecution of Christians, by Robert Spencer Obama and IslamThe Ground Zero Mosque: Second Wave of the 9/11 Attacks
The Complete Infidel’s Guide to the Koran


Stealth Jihad


The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam


The Truth About Muhammad


What they’re saying about Robert Spencer
“My comrade-in-arms, my pal, my buddy.”
Oriana Fallaci

“Robert Spencer incarnates intellectual courage when, all over the world, governments, intellectuals, churches, universities and media crawl under a hegemonic Universal Caliphate’s New Order. His achievement in the battle for the survival of free speech and dignity of man will remain as a fundamental monument to the love of, and the self-sacrifice for, liberty.”
Bat Ye’or

“Robert Spencer is indefatigable. He is keeping up the good fight long after many have already given up. I do not know what we would do without him. I appreciate all the intelligence and courage it takes to keep going despite the appeasement of the West.”
Ibn Warraq

“America's most informed, fearless, and compelling voice on modern jihadism.”
Andrew C. McCarthy, Senior Fellow at National Review Institute

“Robert Spencer is the leading voice of scholarship and reason in a world gone mad. If the West is to be saved, we will owe Robert Spencer an incalculable debt.”
Pamela Geller, Atlas Shrugs

"The consummate Islam critic and expert." — Bruce Bawer

“Over the years, we have become friends, and I have received his assistance on several pieces of legislation I proposed.”
Former Congressman Tom Tancredo

“Few people are capable of applying scholarship, analytical reasoning, and objectivity to their topic -- while simultaneously being readable and witty -- as can Robert Spencer.”
Raymond Ibrahim

“A national treasure...The acclaimed scholar of Islam.”
Frank Gaffney, Center for Security Policy

“I am indeed honored to call him my friend.”
Brad Thor, novelist

“A top American analyst of Islam....A serious scholar...I learn from him.”
Daniel Pipes

“A brilliant scholar and writer.”
Douglas Murray

"One of my best teachers."
Ashraf Ramelah, Voice of the Copts

“Thank God there’s at least one man with balls left in the West.”
Kathy Shaidle, Five Feet of Fury

“I read people like [Mark Steyn] and Bob Spencer and the rest of them, and I say, ‘Boortz, you’re pretending you’re an author. These people really are. They really write some entertaining, some standup stuff.’”
Neal Boortz

“Robert Spencer is the Stephen King of Jihad.”
Chris Gaubatz, Muslim Mafia

“Armed with facts and fearlessness, Spencer stands up for Western civilization.”
Michelle Malkin

“Widely read in conservative foreign policy circles.”
New York Times

“Widely read in many quarters in Washington.”
Washington Post

“A canny operative who likely has the inside track on the State Department’s Middle East affairs desk should the tea party win the White House.”
New York Magazine

“A hero of the American right.”
Karen Armstrong

"The leading anti-Islamic intellectual in the United States....The go-to Islam expert for the right wing."
Salon Magazine

“Robert Spencer is an Edward Said turned upside down.”
Stephen Suleyman Schwartz

“One of the nation's most notorious Islamophobes.”
Hamas-linked CAIR

"Geller and Spencer are probably the most important propagandizing Islamophobes in the world. These people's voices speak very loudly — not just here in the United States but overseas."
Heidi Beirach, Southern Poverty Law Center

“Satanic ignoramus.”
Khaleel Mohammed

“The Likud anti-Christ.”
Dar al-Hayat newspaper (Saudi Arabia)

“Zionist Crusader, missionary of hate, counter-Islam consultant.”
Al-Qaeda’s Adam Gadahn, “Azzam the American”



Follow me on Twitter
facebook islam
RSS feed

Monthly Archives



Donate
Jihad Watch is a 501 (c) 3 organization. Donations are tax-deductible.


Robert Spencer debates on The Quran Teaches WarVideo: Robert Spencer on CPAC Breitbart News
Crucified Again by Raymond Ibrahim
SIOAFreedom Defense InitiativeJihad Watch VideosAmerican Freedom Law Center
Note: Listing here does not imply endorsement of every view expressed at every linked site.

» ACT for America
» Always on Watch
» American Center for Democracy
» American Coptic Association
» American Council for Kosovo
» American Freedom Alliance
» American Freedom Law Center
» American Islamic Forum for Democracy
» American Sheepdogs
» American Thinker
» Americans Against Hate
» Americans for Legal Immigration
» Amerisrael
» Amillennialist Contra Mundum
» Annaqed
» A New Dark Age Is Dawning
» Answering Islam
» Answering Muslims
» Anti-CAIR
» Apostates of Islam
» Aramaic Broadcasting Network (ABN)
» Armies of Liberation
» Assyrian International News Agency
» Atlas Shrugs
» Atour — The State of Assyria
» Australian Islamist Monitor
» Biafra Nation
» Blazing Cat Fur
» Bosch Fawstin
» Brad Thor
» Brussels Journal
» CAIR Watch
» Campus Watch
» Caroline Glick
» Christians Under Attack
» Citizen Warrior
» Coalition for the Defense of Human Rights
» Conservative Nation News
» Copts.com
» Creeping Sharia
» Daniel Pipes
» David Horowitz Freedom Center
» The David Project
» David Thompson
» David Yerushalmi Law
» D. C. Watson
» Dearborn Underground
» DEBKAfile
» Dhimmitude.org
» Dry Bones
» Ellis Washington Report
» Europe News
» Eye On Islam
» Ezra Levant
» Faith Freedom International
» Father Zakaria
» Federale
» Five Feet of Fury
» Foundation for Democracy in Iran
» Free Congress Foundation
» The Free Copts
» Freedom Defense Initiative
» FrontPage Magazine.com
» Geert Wilders
» Genocide1915.info
» Global Research in International Affairs (GLORIA) Center
» History of Jihad
» Hizb ut-Tahrir Watch
» Honest Reporting
» Honor Killings
» Human Rights Congress for Bangladesh Minorities
» India Defence
» Infidel Blogger’s Alliance
» Infidels Are Cool
» The Intelligence Summit
» International Analyst Network
» International Free Press Society
» Internet Haganah
» The Investigative Project on Terrorism
» IOwnTheWorld.com
» IranPressNews
» Iran va Jahan
» Islam Review
» Islam Speaks
» Islam Versus Europe
» Islam Watch
» Islamic Terrorism in India
» Islamist Watch — Middle East Forum
» Israel Matzav
» JihadOnBuddhists.org
» Kejda Gjermani
» KRSI: Radio Sedaye Iran
» Liberated
» Logan's Warning
» Looking At the Left
» Mahdi Watch
» Mapping Sharia
» Mark Steyn
» Martin Kramer
» MEMRI TV
» Middle East Facts
» Middle East Quarterly
» Middle-East-Info.org
» Middle East Media Research Institute
» Middle East Review of International Affairs (MERIA)
» Militant Islam Monitor
» Morning Star
» Muhammad Tube
» The Muslim Issue
» Muslim World Today
» Myths and Facts
» National Vietnam & Gulf War Veterans Coalition
» NewsReal Blog
» No Mosques At Ground Zero
» Nonie Darwish
» Northeast Intelligence Network
» Occidental Jihadist
» One Jerusalem
» Open Speech
» Operation Give
» Operation Gratitude
» Organiser
» Orwellian Culture
» Palestinian Media Watch
» PamelaGeller.com
» Panun Kashmir
» Pedestrian Infidel
» The People's Cube
» The People of the Book
» Persecution Project
» Political Islam
» Politically Incorrect
» Politiskt Inkorrekt
» Q Society of Australia
» Radio Farda
» Radio Jihad
» RAWA: Revolutionary Association of the Women of Afghanistan
» Raymond Ibrahim
» Red Alerts
» Refugee Resettlement Watch
» Religion of Peace
» Republican Riot
» Reuters Middle East Watch
» The “Reverend” Jim Sutter
» SANE: Society of Americans for National Existence
» The Second Draft
» Shire Network News
» SITE Intelligence Group
» Small Wars Journal
» Smoke-Filled World
» The Snooper Report
» Snow Report Blog
» StandWithUs
» Steve Lackner
» The Stiletto Blog
» STOP! Honour Killings
» Sultan Knish
» Tell the Children the Truth
» Terrorism Awareness Project
» Theodore’s World
» Tom Gross Media
» Translating Jihad
» Una via per Oriana
» Undaunted
» United States Central Command
» Urban Infidel
» Walid Shoebat
» Winds of Jihad
» Women Against Shariah
» World Council for the Cedars Revolution
» Yid With Lid
» Z Street
» Zilla of the Resistance
» Zionist Conspiracy
David LittmanOriana Fallaci Thousands of Deadly Terror Attacks Since 9/11The incredible Reza Aslan automated insult generator! iGoogle Gadget
Site Meter