Journalist Irfan Husain describes the horrors of forced conversions in this report from the SouthAsia Network:
MEET Sanno Amra and his wife Champa: a middle-aged Hindu couple. They live in a small, simple but spotlessly clean home in Karachi’s Punjab Colony. Until six weeks ago, they lived with their five children, reasonably content with their lot. Sanno worked as a chauffeur, and his wife cooked for a family. On October 18, their lives suddenly fell apart: Champa returned home from work to discover that her three oldest daughters were missing — Reena (21), Usha (19) and Rima (17) had seemingly vanished without a trace. This is any parent’s worst nightmare, but the couple’s woes had only begun.After searching frantically for the girls, they went to the local police station where the SHO put them off without registering a case. A couple of days later, they met the deputy superintendent of police for Clifton. This proved to be the only bright spot in the entire tragic episode, for DSP Raza Shah went out of his way to help. He forced his subordinates to file an FIR, and his intervention was invaluable in ensuring the safety of the parents. And just for the record, the MQM ‘sector-in- charge’ also lent them his organisation’s support.
On October 22, a police FIR for kidnapping was duly prepared, naming three young men from the neighbourhood as the principal suspects. Immediately, Sanno and his wife started getting threats from their neighbours. Earlier they had never had any problems, although they were the only Hindu family in a predominantly Muslim locality. But now, the same people were pressuring them to remove the names of the local boys from the FIR.
Within days, they received a package by courier containing three identical affidavits signed by their daughters, stating that they had converted to Islam of their own free will. The declaration concluded: “That since my parents are Hindu and after conversion of my religion, it is not possible for me to live and pass my life in Hindu system/society [sic] and therefore, I have decided to live separately...”
According to their affidavits, the girls (now calling themselves Afshan, Anam and Nida) were living in the hostel of the Madarsa Taleem-ul-Quran, and were being instructed by a local moulvi. On November 10, a court order directed the police and the administrators of the seminary to arrange a meeting between the girls and their parents.
When Sanno and Champa finally met their daughters, they were shocked to see that they were in burqas that concealed them from head to toe, leaving only their eyes uncovered. The eyes of the youngest girl were bloodshot from weeping. At this supposedly private meeting, a dour woman was present throughout as were a moulvi and a couple of cops. In subdued voices muffled by heavy fabric, the girls said they wanted to stay where they were.
Understandably, the parents are convinced that their daughters were under pressure. In fact, they simply cannot come to terms with the notion that their children have not only abandoned them, but also the faith they grew up in. As far as they are concerned, their daughters have been brainwashed. Interestingly, the girls have cited “religious channels on TV” as the reason for their conversion.
Read it all.
A modern day islamo-inquisition, no doubt...
Go ahead, ye unfortunate Hindus and Christians of benighted islamo-lands. Convert outwardly if you must, but somewhere deep down preserve the knowledge of truth and righteousness that is the core of your identity.
The article is silent on this but one must wonder if these girls were not also sexually assaulted and/or forcibly betrothed. Disgusting.
I'm speechless! Another 3 (benighted) additions to the great Islamic baby-factory. At this rate of conversion, I guess Hindus/Indians are going to make up a billion new Muslims in the world. Ah well, at least they won't be taking our jobs any longer, busy as they'll be with more pious activities.
Kufir said:"Another 3 additions to the Great Islamic baby factory'. These 'Baby factories' are not only thriving in Pakistan,but in the entire Islamic and Non-Islamic world. Particularly in the Western world,where the white population is dwindling day by day due to the poor reproduction rates(reason being not we are incapable,but we consider other factors like the welbeing of mothers,provision for the future of that child,etc)These muslim immigrant families in United states have on averalge five children per couple.Some go even for seven,The mosques confer titles on those who get ten babies!. Why to worry? The Govenment is there with their 'Child incentive allowances,and the more children you have,the more benifits for the family.unlike in Islamic countries). So there goes your tax money- to produce more future suicide bombers! So no wonder:ISLAM IS THE FASTEST GROWING RELIGION"(at other's cost).
The kidnapping and raping/forced marriage of non-Muslim young women is a repeated pattern throughout the "Islamic world." This is why I always challenge those who come with this or that number of Muslims in any part of the world. The thousands of forced conversions, plus threats of death to those who might leave Islam, add up to false numbers for the "world's fastest growing religion." When each person is able to chose Islam or reject it without fear of violence or death, then I will start to believe in the numbers of adherents that Muslims present. Of course, that day will never come, and I will never believe their numbers of one billion plus and growing. I feel so sad forthe Amra family and I sincerely hope that someday their daughters can return home.
Let me begin with a quote from a famous American……..
Mark Twain (1835-1910) also known as Samuel Clemens, one of the most widely loved and celebrated American writers since his first books were released in the late 1860s. Many of his writings have reached the pinnacles of American and world literature, including the timeless Adventures of Huckleberry Finn, The Adventures of Tom Sawyer, A Connecticut Yankee In King Arthur's Court and Following the Equator. Besides these easily recognizable classics, Twain wrote fascinating Travelogue detailing his experiences in Asia.
"So far as I am able to judge, nothing has been left undone, either by man or nature, to make India the most extraordinary country that the sun visits on his rounds. Nothing seems to have been forgotten, nothing overlooked."
"Land of religions, cradle of human race, birthplace of human speech, grandmother of legend, great grandmother of tradition. The land that all men desire to see and having seen once even by a glimpse, would not give that glimpse for the shows of the rest of the globe combined."
"India had the start of the whole world in the beginning of things. She had the first civilization; she had the first accumulation of material wealth; she was populous with deep thinkers and subtle intellects; she had mines, and woods, and a fruitful soul."
Varanasi or Banaras has been continuously populated for more than 3,000 years, and has often been called the oldest city in the world. It was the contemporary of Thebes and Babylon. Early visitors were struck by the "spectacle" the "panorama" of the Banaras riverfront.
In his around-the-world adventures, Following the Equator, Mark Twain wrote:
"The Ganges front is the supreme showplace of Benares. Its tall bluffs are solidly caked from water to summit, along a stretch of three miles, with a splendid jumble of massive and picturesque masonry, a bewildering and beautiful confusion of stone platforms, temples, stair flights, rich and stately palaces....soaring stairways, sculptured temples, majestic palaces, softening away into the distances; and there is movement, motion, human life everywhere, and brilliantly costumed - streaming in rainbows up and down the lofty stairways, and massed in metaphorical gardens on the mile of great platforms at the river's edge."
(Reference: Banaras: City of Light - By Dr. Diana L Eck, Harvard University, United States of America, p.14).
By the way, Dr. Eck, she was one of my teachers.
Now Kufr, lets take a look at your lovely comment directed at the supposed weakness of Hindus and how you are disgusted by our presence in your job market.
Kufr,
Your comment in regards to Hindus is outright insulting and uncalled for. For me to reiterate the history of Hindus and India that I have mentioned in other threads would be of no use after seeing your attitude towards the Hindu people.
You should be more concerned about the ignorance and lack of knowledge among your own not to recognize who is a friend and who is a foe. After 1300 years of attempts to make India Islamic, the Muslims have been defeated.
According to the British, when they began recruitment of Hindu martial groups into the British Indian army, their assessment of the population was such; out of 350 million people, 35 million belonged to one of the Hindu martial groups, of that 3.5 million were the elite warriors who kept the Islamic hordes at bay and did not let Islam take over India.
Source: A Matter of Honour, an account of the Indian army, Its officers and men (during the British Army) by Philip Mason isbn: 0-333-41837-9
If India had fallen, then all of Southeast Asia, China and perhaps even Japan would have had to face their own annihilation in the face of the Islamic onslaught.
“Now compare this Arab record on the frontiers of India with their record elsewhere. Within eight years of the Prophet’s death, they had conquered Persia, Syria, and Egypt. By 650 AD, they had advanced upto the Oxus and the Hindu Kush. Between 640 and 709 AD they had reduced the whole of North Africa. They had conquered Spain in 711 AD. But it took them 70 long years to secure their first foothold on the soil of India. No historian worth his salt should have the cheek to say that the Hindus have always been an easy game for invaders.”
Reference: CHAPTER VIII: MUSLIM INVASIONS WERE NO WALK-OVER, THE STORY OF ISLAMIC IMPERIALISM IN INDIA, SITA RAM GOEL, Voice of India, New Delhi.
Perhaps you forget that in India, there are still many who are ready to fight against Islam. Those remaining in Pakistan are naturally going to be open targets, as is the Christian population which is heavily persecuted.
However, your other comment “Ah well, at least they won't be taking our jobs any longer, busy as they'll be with more pious activities.”
Who said we were taking your jobs? Only an idiot makes that assumption without thinking that its one of your “White” guys who is offering the jobs in the first place. To top that off, maybe an education would seem fitting if wishing to compete in the job market. As Sheik Yer’Mami would put playing the race card is just unfit, especially in JW. JW. I thought, was a place that could bring all Kafirs and enlightened muslims together to stop the threat of Islam. However, I can see from your comment that the colour of my skin is of more concern to you.
Making a job comment is so pathetic, if you were up to the job then there would be no reason to hire us Brownies. Comments like yours remind me of the dangers I face not from Islam alone but the likes of fellows like you who I have been dealing with all my life.
Perhaps we were good enough to die in World War 1 and 2 fighting along side you as allies and comrades, but not to live among you or be given jobs by Coporate America, great attitude Kufr, nice one.
-Ayo Gorkhali
“Bravest of the brave,
most generous of the generous,
never had country more faithful friends than you.”
Sir Ralph Turner (former officer in the 3rd Gurkha Rifles).
Carved on the London memorial to Gurkha soldier unveiled by Queen Elizabeth II on December 3, 1997
Gorkhali --
You mention that Diane Eck was one of your teachers. I presume this was at Harvard Divinity School, or was it in India? Despite her thesis-into-book on the City of Benares (part of her careerist-spiritual search), which might make one assume that she would be sympathetic to Hindus and Hinduism, and therefore ill-disposed to Islam, Eck is best known for being a stout Defender of Islam, not least in the way she fails to see how Islam does not fit into, and cannot fit into, her grandly-titled and no doubt grant-showered "Pluralism Project." Karen Armstrong was an honored guest at her unconventional wedding. Along with Leila Ahmad, another one who managed to get tenure as a proclaimed fighter for "women's rights" in Islam, but spends more time deflecting any attention from Islam, and adopting the Leila Abu-Lughod defensiveness about Islam (though I'm not sure Ahmad goes the whole route by hailing the "portable seclusion" of the burka and suchlike), Eck has made common cause with that "scholar of early Islam" (list of grants and honors predictably follow), one William A. Graham, the current Divinity School Dean, who failed to be awarded tenure by his own department at the College, but perhaps acquired it, without too many people paying attention, when he assumed his dean's duties at the Divinity School. Despite the various "awards for scholarly achievement" (who gave those awards? Were Michael Cook and Patricia Crone the judges, or was it more like Rashid Khalidi and Fred Donner?), you won't find him mentioned even in a footnote in the useful summary of Western scholarship on the Qur'an that Ibn Warraq contributes to "Die dunklen Anfange."
Nowadays, anything is possible in higher -- highest -- education. Call the result what you will: joke, blague, barzelletta, shutka. The shades of Ascham, Milton, Comenius, Rollin, Ferry, Barzun and many others are not amused. Nor would the parents of the hapless students who are victims of this scandalous situation, if only they knew, fully, what it is their children are getting -- or not getting -- for their money.
Dear Hugh,
I have often read your posts and am impressed with your vast knowledge.
I said she was one of my teachers, but that doesn't mean I agreed with her on many issues. Actually Hugh, I was not born in India or Nepal, I was born in the West, was educated in the United States, Canada and India.
During my undergraduate years, I met many of the famous professors from across North America and India (one of them being Dr. Grewal a Sikh historian and Dr. King an Anglo-Indian from California) who had to do with South Asian Studies for many reasons, either because of my own academic capabilities and knowledge of certain issues which got me a lot of attention and also the family I belong to and their impact on India and Nepal’s histories, respectively.
I was on the path to pursuing a career in the field and eventually become a professor as well as a published academic, when I realized that I wasn’t allowed to speak the truth always. My mentor (an American, who at the time was the head of the department) also warned me of the fact that I would probably suffer if I chose to speak my mind in the academic circles since there is an attitude to protect Islam at the cost of others. He always allowed me to voice my opinions frankly as long as he was around.
I knew that he wouldn’t be around forever (as the Head of Dept), so I decided on changing my path (made a huge career change, and he was obviously disappointed and tried to talk me out of it) and instead promised to publish my works about Rajputs, Gurkhas, the defense of Hinduism against Islam and a number of works on my family (mostly to do with the Punjab and Nepal sides of the family) with him after I complete my studies which should be quite soon actually. I am still very much in touch with him and his wife. I will probably see them over the Christmas holidays.
I know exactly what you are talking about and it made me very cynical towards the department as it did my friends and classmates.
I once mentioned to one of my professors over an afternoon glass of wine that the attitudes and staunch defense of Islam in the South Asian Studies community is going to create Hindu fanatics out of Hindus who were once secular in thought because many Hindus are becoming disillusioned with the anti Hindu undertones felt in many of the courses and the Western media in general.
Anyways, my deepest regards to you Hugh, you are an ocean of Knowledge, a “Vidya-sagar”.
-Ayo Gorkhali
“Bravest of the brave,
most generous of the generous,
never had country more faithful friends than you.”
Sir Ralph Turner (former officer in the 3rd Gurkha Rifles).
Carved on the London memorial to Gurkha soldier unveiled by Queen Elizabeth II on December 3, 1997
Playing the race card, Gorkhali? Read my comment again and tell me where I mention race. "Our" refers to American (of all races). This is OT for JW, but have Indians produced a single product or a modern industry (a job market) worth speaking about? This tells me that giving them jobs will not lead to any new ideas, sort of crucial in the business world. Anyway, OT here. Race, it's disgusting to see you pull that one. And sorry, I'm not the least bit ashamed of belonging to my race.
"I feel so sad forthe Amra family and I sincerely hope that someday their daughters can return home."
maryrose, unfortunately that's never going to happen. They've entered burqadom. They'll be passed from male to male, giving birth to scores. Even if they don't internalize their Islam (which many do after a few years since there's no other choice if they want acceptance from their new community), their offspring will go forth to get more workers for the factory. Such goes the scheme..
That's why I maintain that the Ummah is eerily reminiscent of the Borg. Once minds are coopted, they themselves go forth to coopt more. Scary!
“We owe a lot to the Indians, who taught us how to count, without which no worthwhile scientific discovery could have been made.” - Albert Einstein.
“India invented the numerical system. Aryabhatta invented 'zero.' “
Kufr,
Please try to see what upsets me about your comment.
You say its disgusting that I should be mentioning race, please take a look at your comment:
"I'm speechless! Another 3 (benighted) additions to the great Islamic baby-factory. At this rate of conversion, I guess Hindus/Indians are going to make up a billion new Muslims in the world. Ah well, at least they won't be taking our jobs any longer, busy as they'll be with more pious activities."
...at least they won't be taking our jobs any longer....
Yes, I am one of "They" I guess.
Furthermore,
"I guess Hindus/Indians are going to make up a billion new Muslims in the world."
Where do you get off saying a comment like that. I happen to be a Hindu, so you are saying that my family is going to hop on the the Al-Jihad train any time soon?
You wrote:
"Race, it's disgusting to see you pull that one. And sorry, I'm not the least bit ashamed of belonging to my race."
You're the one who pulled the race issue buddy, don't try to throw it at me. And I can see that you are not ashamed of belonging to your race, as you shouldn't be, however when you start with the "I guess Hindus/Indians are going to make up a billion new Muslims in the world. Ah well, at least they won't be taking our jobs any longer, busy as they'll be with more pious activities.", its pretty obvious what you mean.
When Shiek Yer'Mami and I had a misunderstanding, I didn't blow up since I could see where he was coming from and eventually he saw my way too.
Yet to claim that we simply take "Your jobs", well maybe if people wanted those then "We" won't take them, or perhaps its more Corporate America's fault since they want to cut corners.
You also wrote:
“but have Indians produced a single product or a modern industry (a job market) worth speaking about? This tells me that giving them jobs will not lead to any new ideas, sort of crucial in the business world.”
"USA based IEEE has proved what has been a century-old suspicion amongst academics that the pioneer of wireless communication was Professor Jagdeesh Bose and not Marconi."
Ah, yes we have in case you haven’t noticed. What computer chip do you use?
“Vinod Dahm and the Pentium chip are synonymous with each other. It is so because Vinod Dahm is the creator of the Pentium chip, which runs almost 90% of the computers today. He is suitably known as the father of the Pentium processor. Vinod was born in Pune, India in 1950. He received his initial education at Pune. Vinod earned his bachelor's degree from the Delhi College of Engineering, in Electrical Engineering in the year 11971. After completing his engineering, Vinod worked briefly in Delhi for Continental Devices- a semiconductor company. To pursue advance studies, Vinod went to the US in the year 1975. There, he joined the University of Cincinnati to pursue a Masters in Electrical Engineering. After his masters, in 1977, Vinod joined the National Cash Register (NCR) at Dayton, Ohio. There, he worked as a team member of the NCR's memory design group. While working at the NCR, Vinod Dahm received many patents. It was during one of the presentations in Monterrey, California that Intel offered Vinod to work with it.”
Reference:
http://www.indobase.com/indians-abroad/vinod-dahm.html
I guess you have a lot of contempt for us “Indians/Hindus”, well you wanted a list, so here it is:
1. Who is the co-founder of Sun Microsystems? Vinod Khosla. The Sun founder also had an Indian Professor in Computer Technologies at Louisiana State University.
2. Who is the creator of the Pentium chip (needs no introduction as 90% of the today's computers run on it)? Vinod Dham.
3. Who is the founder and creator of Hotmail (Hotmail is world's No.1 web based email program)? Sabeer Bhatia.
5. Who is the president of AT & T-Bell Labs (AT &T-Bell Labs is the creator of program languages such as C, C++, and Unix to name a few)? Arun Netravalli.
6. Who is the new MTD (Microsoft Testing Director) of Windows 2000, responsible to iron out all initial problems? Sanjay Tejwrika.
7. Who are the Chief Executives of CitiBank, Mckensey & Stanchart? Victor Menezes, Rajat Gupta, and Rana Talwar. Indians are the wealthiest among all ethnic groups in America, even faring better than the Caucasians and natives.
There are 3.22 million Indians in USA (1.5% of population). 12% of the scientists in the USA are Indians. 38% of doctors in America are Indian. 36% of NASA scientists are Indians. 34% of Microsoft employees are Indians. 28% of IBM employees are Indians. 17% of INTEL scientists are Indians. 13% of XEROX employees are Indians.
8. Furthermore, the Consul General in New York, Mr. Pramathesh Rath has said that India (as of 2002) is the largest source of international students accounting for more than 11 percent or 67,000 of the over half-million studying in various universities in the U.S. In this case, Indian students for the first time outnumbered the hitherto largest source of international students, which was China.
For the period of 2002-03, Indian students remain number 1 in U.S. university enrollments, totaling 74,603, up from the previous year. This accounts for a good 13% of the 586,323 international students. This means the Indian student population in the U.S. has doubled in the last 7 years. The U.S. authorities also appreciate this since it brings in large sums of money for the U.S. economy. It also allows the Indian talent to contribute to the U.S., as well as brings home to India a work force with cutting edge skills.
9. Indian doctors, numbering more than 35,000, constitute over five percent of all physicians in America.
10. Another point is that three-fourths of all graduates from the prestigious IIT (Indian Institute of Technology) University in India are in the U.S.
11. Other than US and Japan, India is the only country to have built a super computer indigenously.
12. India is the world's premier centre for diamond cutting and polishing. Nine out of every 10 stones sold in the world pass through India.
13. Of the Fortune 500 companies, 220 outsource their software-related work to India.
14. India has the second-largest pool of scientists and engineers in the world.
15. India is ranked the sixth country in the world in terms of satellite launches.
Additional facts which deals with WORLD HISTORY FACTS ABOUT INDIA.
1. India never invaded any country in her last 1000 years of history.
2. India invented the numerical system. Aryabhatta invented 'zero.'
3. The world's first university was established in Takshila in 700 BC. More than 10,500 students from all over the world studied more than 60 subjects. The University of Nalanda built in the 4th century BC was one of the greatest achievements of ancient India in the field of education.
4. According to the Forbes magazine (1987 issue), Sanskrit is the most suitable language for computer software.
5. Ayurveda is the earliest school of medicine known to humans.
6. Although western media portrays modern images of India as poverty stricken and underdeveloped through political corruption, India was once the richest empire on earth.
7. The art of navigation was born in the river Sindh 5000 years ago. The very word "Navigation" is derived from the Sanskrit word NAVGATIH.
8. The value of pi was first calculated by Budhayana, and he explained the concept of what is now known as the Pythagorean Theorem. British scholars have last year (1999) officially published that Budhayan's works date back to the 6th Century, which is long before the European mathematicians.
9. Algebra, trigonometry and calculus came from India. Quadratic equations were by Sridharacharya in the 11th Century; the largest numbers the Greeks and the Romans used were 106 whereas Indians used numbers as big as 1053.
10. According to the Gemological Institute of America, up until 1896, India was the only source of diamonds to the world.
11. USA based IEEE has proved what has been a century-old suspicion amongst academics that the pioneer of wireless communication was Professor Jagdeesh Bose and not Marconi.
12. The earliest reservoir and dam for irrigation was built in Saurashtra.
13. Chess was invented in India.
14. Sushruta is the father of surgery. 2600 years ago he and health scientists of his time conducted surgeries like cesareans, cataract, fractures and urinary stones. Usage of anaesthesia was well known in ancient India.
15. When many cultures in the world were only nomadic forest dwellers over 5000 years ago, Indians established Harappan culture in Sindhu Valley (Indus Valley Civilization).
16. The place value system, the decimal system was developed in India dating back to at least 100 BC.
Kufr,
I hope you understand why I got upset by your comments.
-Cheers
-Ayo Gorkhali
Again with the race thing! What part of America vs India don't you get? I prefer American companies to create jobs for Americans.
Let me rephrase it to see if I can get through:
If India were (to become) an Islamic country, most of the jobs would stay in America (since there aren't that many English speakers elsewhere). That would be a good thing for us Americans (citizens of America). Just one of the upsides of this story I could think of. And yeah, I'm a nationalist. And I suspect most Indians are as well. And from what you say, you sound like an American citizen to me, with allegiance to the flag and country. I don't count you as an Indian (citizen).
I'm starting to see why people avoid commenting on topics relating to South Asia.
Since truth is self-evident, the best way to judge the solidness of a religion is by checking the way in which this religion treats the minorities. And Islam's record in this field is nothing short of abismal.
Thus, the forced conversions just prove that Islam is a Mickey-Mouse religion.
Having exhausted all rational arguments, Islam extends itself by bullying and threats.
I am surprised that so few people got outraged when Yohanna, the only Christian in the Pakistani cricket team, converted to islam along with his wife this very year.
The humiliations he had to endure previous to his capitulation can only be imagined.
"They're taking our JOBS!"
Back into the big, gay pile to change the future.
/South Park
Nobody owns their job unless they are their own boss. Sorry to break this to someone who was outproduced by someone in India for less money.
I think you guys have strayed too far from the forced conversions issue.
@Kufr,
You're beginning to see why people avoid commenting on topics related to South Asia? What do you see?
There should be a level of sensitivity towards your fellow Kafirs when discussing issues; that should be understood. And who would avoid commenting on the topics of South Asia? Through this exercise perhaps you can see where you may hit a nerve without realizing it, or where someone from the specific community may be highly sensitive to the issue and find outright offensive.
If you are a nationalist, which I am sure you are, then push the American government to stop giving places like Pakistan all those immigration visas when all of us down right know they hate the United States and are going to come here and try to destroy it.
Push the American Government to stop giving terrorists, from the Middle East, Visas to come and study or take jobs here in the United States while in the guise of Doctors and other professionals.
However, being upset that Corporate America is giving jobs to Indians doesn’t fit, in fact, America’s image is really improving in urban areas of India, whereas before America was always seen as the ally of Pakistan and thus the champion of Jihad. Therefore outsourcing sometimes is a good diplomatic tool which has improved the image of the United States in some ways.
Now look at what you also commented on “This is OT for JW, but have Indians produced a single product or a modern industry (a job market) worth speaking about?” By throwing that at me allowed me to share the facts of Indian contributions besides the Pentium chip, thus allowing for a lot of myths to be dispelled. For that I thank you, you gave me an opportunity to share a bunch of stuff.
http://www.niyam.com/writing/httech4u/indianscientists/indianscientists.php?jcbose
http://www.qsl.net/vu2msy/JCBOSE.htm and http://www.qsl.net/vu2msy/JCBOSE1.htm
http://www.niyam.com/writing/httech4u/indianscientists/indianscientists.php?cvraman
JW has my deepest regards since they report news from all over the world that otherwise gets brushed under the carpet by American Media.
-------------------------------------------------
@Beagle: That was too good. "Nobody owns their job unless they are their own boss. Sorry to break this to someone who was outproduced by someone in India for less money."
-------------------------------------------------
@Rocky: You're right; we have strayed too far from the original topic.
Here is an interesting link on the Hindus and Christians in Pakiland:
http://www.cidcm.umd.edu/inscr/mar/assessment.asp?groupId=77004
-Cheers
The links to India are interesting. We all need access to such information that helps get a picture of the contributions of eminent scientists that exist outside the Western world.
The topic, though, is forced conversions to Islam. These young women are following the path of millions before them in an established pattern that is being repeated all over the world where Islam plants a footprint. The historical and operative word for Islam in my mind is forced, for few are foolish enough to make the voluntary leap from freedom to the stifling world that is Islam.
The verbal spat between Kufr and Gorkhali is interesting, for lack of a better word.
Gorkhali:
Where is your sensitivity, man? How can you accuse a fellow-jihad warrior of racism when all he's done is wish that a billion Hindus fall under the yoke of islam from which, so far, we've seen there is no escape? How can that minor forced-conversion trauma compare to that enormous trauma suffered by true nationalists like kufr when their jobs are put up for open competition and goto a better quality or lower price (or sometimes, both) rival??
/sarcasm off
Gorkhali, it doesn't matter why you're upset. What matters is your being apologetic about it. Here's a FReerepublic thread you both may find interesting:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1534661/posts
This tragedy is strongly reminiscent of scarier episodes of the 'Twilight Zone'...
As is Islam itself and the endless horrors it creates seemingly in perpetuity. Except that of course these unending horrors are REAL!
@ Voletti:
Sometimes my temper gets the best of me, oh well, at least I don't immediately declare Jihad :D
-Cheers
Gorkhali,
Very interesting discussion. Not as knowledgable as you on the subject but I think there is some ignorance on the part of Americans regarding Indians. I know too many people who don't know the difference between an Indian Buddhist or an Arab Muslim (sad but true). I'll keep this short.
American jobs lost to the big, bad Indians? Please spare me. We need to look at our own internal problems before blaming others blindly. Don't like lost jobs? Thank the unions, healthcare/entitlement costs, taxes, lawyers, etc. Blaming the companies, whose first responsibility is to make profits for their shareholders (not make sure you're employed), or the people who take these jobs is just misguided.
As for America and India I think we should embrace eachother as I believe that at the heart of it we are not so different. I respect the Indian focus on family and education and moral fiber. We in America could learn a lesson there for sure. I also believe that deep down the citizens of both countries have a live and let live mentality. I truly hope that Indians (as well as Americans) will stand up and fight if necessary for their ways of life. After all, I haven't heard of any buddhists forcing conversions under threat of death.
JP
Jeez, so much for a casual remark on the upside of this story!
Clean air, good roads, healthcare benefits, lots of parks and recreation areas, great infrastructure, unemployment benefits, it all makes for costlier employees and pricier products. But what we get in return is a 1st world country. Indians crow about their low prices, but look at the state of their polluted, overcrowded, unlivable country. And their education system isn't that good either. It's just rote learning, no creativity is nurtured, and it's going to tell in the near future.. So I'm not too concerned because I know those jobs will come back..
So I'm not too concerned because I know those jobs will come back..
Keep ranting and teaching Intelligent design, your jobs are comming back for sure.
More teens in west want to be rockstars rather than engineers whilst its exactly opposite in India. Now theres the difference.
"Now theres the difference."
My point precisely. Indian teens can't afford to even dream of such lives. They have to stick with what can get them out of poverty, even if they hate it (which I suspect most do, but what can they do).
Interesting how the immigrants come out of the woodwork. Hey, if India's so great, why the heck did you leave it to come here?
Kufr,
It’s good to see your true colors come out. Obviously you have a lot of stereotypes about India and the Subcontinent (excluding Pakistan and Bangladesh).
Even when I tried to be civil, you refuse and yet I never attacked the United States. Instead, I have always admired and praised it. You immediately went on your "Anti-Indian" rant, which is so typical since the comment you had casually made in the beginning had such undertones and that is why I took offence to it. Now you have just made it obvious.
The US and other nations go to India to recruit Indian grads.
“Interesting how the immigrants come out of the woodwork. Hey, if India's so great, why the heck did you leave it to come here?” Why did my father come out West? He was given an offer by the Canadian Government to do research since he was advanced in his field for his time, was given awards in America for his work and so he took the opportunity, discovered the origins of a specific disease etc helping to find a cure. He didn’t come to the West on his own, nor was he ever thinking of going out West, he was asked to come out here and he took the opportunity.
I was born in the West, my father was asked to come here, and we stayed. Does that answer your question?
I guess you didn’t bother to read the link that Voletti had given.
Have you ever been to India to comment so casually about it? If I were to film the slums found in the deep south of the United States, or some of the conditions I have seen in North Carolina, West Virginia, while I was there, I cannot say that it represents America in its entirety. India is a vast country, and not all of India is how you describe it, maybe you should visit it if you can tolerate all the poor smelly dirty stupid unimaginative people there. I know I deal with myself everyday, boo-hoo.
If the education was not that good as you say or it was all rote learning with no creativity then why does America recruit so many Indians? America has always been a nation which got talent to come with it; it doesn’t go out there to recruit idiots. It’s true, many Indians do have rote learning; however Indian education gives them a strong foundation for more complex designs and advanced thought. It has produced creative minds, since you haven’t bothered to read the previous posts or links. And its true, Indian children are not given the luxury to become rock stars; instead they are pushed into fields which require a more complex array of thought. You cannot expect David Lee Roth or Van Halen or Bon Jovi to have a conversation with you about advanced Quantum Physics, so I guess you should be proud.
“My point precisely. Indian teens can't afford to even dream of such lives. They have to stick with what can get them out of poverty, even if they hate it (which I suspect most do, but what can they do).”
That was priceless, first study the history of the region, the impact of refugees and the survival of democracy before you throw such intelligent well thought out arguments. Do you think every Indian is poor? Honestly? Get real.
I guess you didn’t read my earlier post since I mentioned a number of Indians who have made a difference. Instead of giving an intelligent or polite reply you immediately go on an attack of India and
“Interesting how the immigrants come out of the woodwork. Hey, if India's so great, why the heck did you leave it to come here?” That’s right; you’re the only “real” American, now that the true colors have come out. It’s great to see
Sure the Jobs will come back to the United States, but that was never the fault of Indians as you put “Ah well, at least they won't be taking our jobs any longer, busy as they'll be with more pious activities”.
Instead of seeing how that could be taken the wrong way, you went further for an attack, that’s beautiful. “They” never stole your precious jobs; however, America’s image has improved in India since the past. Pakistan was mostly under military rule and was never a true democracy, however the Cold war always made strange bedfellows, India, the largest democracy in the world was being invaded by Pakistan (at least they were trying) in 1965, America supported them. In 1971, India helped East Pakistan gain independence from Pakistan and stop the genocide of Bengalis and become Bangladesh, this again brought India into war with Pakistan, and again America supported Pakistan.
However, now with relations between India and America on the upswing, people’s attitudes are changing and becoming pro-American, which saves me the time from defending America when I am overseas.
However, your attitude is priceless; it is a perfect example of why people will have a hard time trusting Kafirs like you. No matter what happens, you have this negative outlook on India, and your comment about us “immigrants” coming out of the woodwork is simply divine. Bravo, you know how to unite people and be civil in your discussion. Lovely to see that you view us with the same contempt as a Muslim would.
Your contempt towards Indians is priceless, I guess in the end there is no difference in your eyes between Hindus and Muslims.
There may be hope, after all.
I could counter-convert Moslems. I know I could.
Rent me a big room at the local hotel and I'll set up a table outside the door. I'd have a squad of trollops sitting on card chairs around me , dabbing lipstick and primping hair-dos, with fishnet flesh luridly ashine under the harsh overhead light.
The table would be stacked with boozy fare, along with several kegs to the side. Ply these hirsute holy men with cheap gin and a snort or two, chuka some spliff, a little ass-rubbing from Peggy and Sheila, and I'd have these guys in the big room crawling around on futons barking like dogs in no time.
From there I'd ship them off to Idaho or Western Montana for reprogramming. Once they got their acts together -- and had attained complete orthopedic recovery -- they could work as rodeo clowns to build their wallets back up to be able to return to Detroit or the East Coast to see how they like the Islam now.