And why do they not feel French in France? Of course the whole world knows the French reputation for unkindness to foreigners. But why is any discussion of the EU/Arab League agreements in which the EU foreswore assimilation at the Arab League's insistence off limits for the IHT? Why no discussion of the statement by Dyab Abou Jahjah of the Arab European League calling assimilation "cultural rape"? Now it is all the fault of the French that these young Muslims feel marginalized? Well, I'm not buying. There is too much evidence on the other side.
And now, this article suggests, an end to French discrimination, a little money, a few jobs, and everything will be all right. Well, this is certainly a theory that is going to be tested. But I doubt that it will be met with reciprocal efforts on the part of Muslim leaders to encourage assimilation.
From the International Herald Tribune, with thanks to Caratacus:
BONDY, France "Burn!" A knot of young men join their voices in a battle cry as they edge closer to the silhouette of a parked Mercedes, some of them aiming what look like handguns, others reaching for lighters.
In the harsh light of an underground parking lot in this grim suburb northwest of Paris, the guns and lighters are imaginary - but the sense of aggression is real. As one of the young men films with a digital camera, the others move to the angry beat of music blasting out of an open car door, echoing into the dark December night.
They sing about the riots that erupted two months ago, about being Muslim and about not feeling French in France. For them the unrest is not over, it is waiting to break loose again.
"The quiet is deceptive," said Bala "Balastik" Coulibaly, 24, of nearby Clichy-sous-Bois, his eyes scanning the deserted parking lot from deep inside his sweatshirt as he took a break between two songs. It was in Clichy that the accidental death of two teenagers on Oct. 27 set off three weeks of rioting in immigrant neighborhoods across France.
Since then, the whiff of gasoline and tear gas has disappeared. But the calm is fragile, impatient and tinged with the cynicism of youths who fear being let down again by a political class that allowed mass unemployment and social exclusion to accumulate over three decades in the poor suburbs ringing France's big cities.
"The rage in the suburbs is only asleep," said Balastik, a French youth of Mauritanian origin who has been jobless since dropping out of school seven years ago and is dreaming of a career as a rapper with his band, Styladone. "It wouldn't take much to wake it up again."...
At the same time, the government announced a raft of measures aimed at fighting joblessness and discrimination, and declared 2006 the year of "equal opportunity." Businesses will be offered tax breaks for setting up shop in difficult suburbs, local schools will receive more attention, a new apprenticeship program for teenagers is being drawn up, and state funds for nongovernmental organizations that were canceled three years ago will be restored.
President Jacques Chirac, clearly shaken by the riots, has urged French media and businesses to reflect the country's diverse population. The minister for equal opportunity, Azouz Begag, is pondering ways of measuring diversity in order to provide companies with a benchmark.
But in suburbs like Bondy and Clichy-sous-Bois, the buzz and debate sparked by the riots are dismissed by many as little more than political posturing.
"Right now they're afraid of us, so they're making a lot of promises," said a friend of Balastik's, Ker, 23, whose parents are from Cambodia and who sings in the same band. "What we need is concrete action that is felt, here, on the ground."...
Outside the Clichy-sous-Bois city hall, Mehdi, 24, who also works for an NGO for disadvantaged youth, confirmed that he had not seen any of the new funds promised by the government.
"The faster some of the promises are transformed into action the better," said Mehdi, a Frenchman of Algerian-Moroccan origin who grew up in Clichy. "We are taking the temperature with people every day. They are waiting for changes that they feel in everyday life - and they are also waiting for justice for the two dead teenagers."
The trigger for the November violence was the accidental electrocution of two teenagers of African origin who hid in a power substation. A third teenager, who survived the incident, says the three friends were being pursued by police, a claim officers deny. The outcome of an investigation is keenly awaited in the suburbs. If the police are exonerated, it could trigger new unrest, said Mehdi, who, like others interviewed for this article, did not give his last name.
Back in the parking lot in Bondy, Balastik mimes lighting a lighter, his eyes glimmering in the harsh neon light. One of his friends is wearing a red T-shirt with a big caption that reads "Rakaille" - a rap spelling of "racaille," or "thugs," which is what Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy called the rioters at one point, fueling their anger.
"We're thugs and we're proud," Balastik quipped, adding that music was "one way of dealing with the frustration of never getting a reply to your job application."
Others channel their anger differently. Cars have continued to burn every night since the riots ended, including more than 100 across France on Christmas Eve.
"the frustration of never getting a reply to your job application"
Excuse-moi, but how on earth is it that the yellow man always finds a job wherever he goes on this globe ?
"We're thugs and we're proud," Balastik quipped, adding that music was "one way of dealing with the frustration of never getting a reply to your job application."
I have had numerous job applications ignored. I did not go berzerk and fire bomb cars over it.
Instead, I shaved , showered, put on clean cloths and deoderant, learned something, and re-applied. Right action sooner or later brings right results. No one except terrorists hire car bombers...rioting and acting up, is not right action...unless you are a muslim...proud thugs...thats about it...Mohammad would be proud...
What's amazing in contrast:
There are a ton of stories in the US mainstream press exposing the "insensitivity" of Christian aid groups in Indonesia (the "year after" type stories being run). The charge is that these groups have taken advantage of the dire circumstances to "convert" Muslims to Christianity. The many Indonesian Muslims claim the "missionaries" are at "war" with Islam. They complain the Indonesian Gov't has been lax about enforcing the prosyletization laws.
Muslim hardline groups are becoming active as they see some Muslims convert to Christianity. The MSM stories claim the Christian groups are causing problems by effecting the status quo harmony. Of course, even the hardline Muslim groups want the aid $ and help. These Christians have given up a year of their lives to live in poverty and aid the Muslim communities. They are told by their leaders they can only talk about religious issues if asked.
Now think the absolute double-standard and cowardice in the press coverage of these two stories: France is a traditionally Christian country that allows Muslims freedoms non-Muslims could only dream about the Islamic World. Muslims are free to proselytize, have others change religion to Islam, openly practice their religion, etc. Muslims have grossly distorted the French religious "status quo" "harmony" by the demographics and immigration.
Unlike the Indonesia story, any French complaints about the rising Islamic horde are called racist. As France is being overthrown, the complainers getting coverage are the Muslims. Meanwhile, the Indonesian Christian community is being persecuted beyond belief (3 girls are decapitated, 3 mothers jailed, other murders, tens of churches shut down, etc. etc. etc.). Not one bit of coverage of the Christian oppression. INSTEAD, the cowardly MSM covers the concerns of Muslims toward the aid workers who are giving their lives for Muslims. We must be in the twilight zone.
That said, I want you to think about something: Muslims are TERRIFIED of perceieved missionaries. They realize non-Muslims can only have small clandestine conversations about religion. However, this TERRIFIES them. They HATE apostates and do all they can to kill or re-convert apostates. Why:
Islam is a lie, and most Muslim leaders know that. Why do you think they call Islam "The religion of truth". Insecurity. They know Islam is NOT "true". When rational, un-biased Muslims are given a choice (with all the facts) most would not stay Muslim. It is only held together by force: Apostacy laws, Proselytization laws, no criticism of Islam/Mohammed, Hellfire for questioning the Koran, etc. etc. Fear/Coersion
Our best weapon is information and truth, and Muslims know this. We must all continue to take the fight to the enemy by spreading the truth of Islam to all (Muslim and non-Muslim). A religion that claims the Jewish Temple never existed (despite every bit of historical and archeological evidence). A religion that claims the Gospels are true (Surah 3:7 and 5:46-47) and yet Jesus was not crucified and claimed to be a "prophet" of Allah (and claiming Mohammed brought the "final" revelation to something he didn't even know about). A religion that claims the Christian trinity is Mary, Son, and Father. A religion that claims Mary was the sister of Moses. A religion the exhorts followers to kill in the name of an all-powerful God who made all humans (he doesn't need anyone's help in "punishing" so-called "infidels", particularly if "infidels" are headed to Hell). A religion the tells young Muslims they will go straight to "paradise" for murdering infidels while committing suicide. Etc. Etc.
Islam is a friggin joke, held together by fear, coersion, and lies. It will fall apart as soon as enough people are informed about the ridiculous claims of the Koran and Hadiths and Sira. To any Muslims reading this: Wake up and see the light before it's too late.
Why do they call Islam the religion of truth --" insecurity??" Why do they become enraged when Islam is challenged or questioned? Because they know that Islam can't stand up to scrutiny!
The distortion in the liberal press over these incidents has been absolutely gross - as it was over the Sydney beach riots. The liberal press never mentioned how the "disaffected youth" smashed up little children's nursery schools, their classrooms, paintings and books generously provided and paid for by the French state and that working mothers on very modest incomes were unable to go to work and left for days without anywhere to leave their children - the type of people that normally should be defended by liberals but have been utterly abandonned in their unseemly haste to slime around Islamofascists. We also were never told about the other working class people living in those areas who are white French people and had to put up with their cars and property being trashed by the poor, misunderstood yoofs. That's because liberals don't have to live anywhere near these kind of people.
For anyone who understands French, this 5 minute interview with Philippe de Villiers, recorded on the 23rd of December, might be of interest.
http://www.france-echos.com/IMG/wmv/4v_20051223.wmv
Well, Sebastien, I have seen the vidéo, and I have a few comments.
First, I agree with De Viller's position concerning the brain drain that is selective immigration. If the idea is that poor immigrants must stay home and not bring their dead weights to our societies, we must help them improve their own society for them to actualy chose to stay there. But by taking away their socio-economic élites, we're pauperizing them, we're forcing them to come here.
So, if our goal is to stop immigration here, we must improve the world abroad. Then again, if we could improve the world abroad, while still profiting from foreign brains, that would be the best outcome, and I think we can do both. But I can agree with the general idea.
Second, I disagree with De Villier's view on globalisation. He caracterize globalisation as a detrimental, unstopable "buldozer" thats destroying french national identity, and as such, it must be stopped. De Villier, and I'm sorry to say, but France in general, cannot seem to be able to concliliate identity and globalisation. Yes, it is a daunting task, and it is tempting to give in to primitive nationalism, but if you fail at the challenge of cultural globalisation, if you recoil yourself around your culture, you're no better than Iran.
It is possible, and desirable, for France to "francisé la mondialisation", as opposed to build imaginary walls around Europe, hoping the World will stop spinning for France. And this is what De Villier, or Le Pen for that matter, are talking about I believe.
Third, De Villier speak of an islamisation of the France, or the West. Isn't it insteed the other way around? How is it possible to analyse and observe who's assimilating and changing who, between muslim immigrants, and the western host? I really whish to discuss this third point at lenght, but you folks here seem to lack a forum. Can't mr. Spencer host one in this site? please. =
And by the way, this is my first message, so a warm welcome to myself. =)
Greetings Elliot. It's great to see another French speaker on this site.
I take your point about globalisation, but this to me is a minor point. The argument between left and right wing economics takes second place to dealing with Islamisation of Europe.
I would like to add, that the most succesful counter attacks to islamisation so far have been the Crusades and the colonisation of Algeria, both French initiatives.
France, like America feels that it has a destiny to guide the world. America chooses to do this with freedom, the french chose to do this with culture.
Clearly France today no longer has any culture of value to teach the world because all creative impulses have been put under state control. So you will not find a rich bourgeois paying an an artist to create something magnificent any more. You will however find state sponsored bongo players at every municipal event.
But this clearly has not always been the case.
The colonisation of Algeria in 1830, was an attempt to rekindle the latin empire, of Roman times, once again on the African continent. We are now 40 years after Algerian decolonisation and this arab country is one of the most unpleasant places in the world.
This French experiment was naive, in the way Americas attempt to bring freedom to the natives of Iraq was naive. It only ends up with good people having their heads cut off by savages.
Anglo Saxon globalisation, does imply letting everyone do what they want. This is OK as far as it goes, because it rewards efficiency. But give muslims free choice and 20 % of them will chose more Islam. With all that that entails, for the infidels in the neighbourhood.
The ideas behind Globalisation, will permit a Saudi company to buy a 50 % share in a news organisation for example. (Although, judging by the way news is delivered in the west, this investment hardly seems neccessary)
De Villiers is the only non loony french politician to have said that Islam is the problem and not islamism. For that, he gets all my respect.
The public lynching of figures such as Maurice Dantec and Alain Finkielkraut is on a par with russian show trials.
The French state is active in shutting down, so called hate sites like www.musulmanesonline.com and blocking organisations feeding the homeless because porc is on the menu (http://www.association-sdf.com/action_15_12_2005.html)
While Blair has been taking advice from Tarik Ramadan, it appears that de Villiers has been reading Mark Steyn and LGF
"We're thugs and we're proud..."
-- French Moslem
Finally, we see Islam coming to grips with itself.
MOSLEMS HATE HATE MOSLEMS GRATE GRATE SEE THE MOSLEMS INFILTRATE
A rotting fetid root only stinks if your forebrain has the necessary sensors operating. Islam is all about mind over matter, childishness over responsibility, emotion over reason, dissolution over art, fakery over facts.
And certain nerve endings are frozen during this stupefying process. Thus all this Moslem Sincerity of which we're fed a daily diet, in heaping portions no less.
Sebastien writes:
"This French experiment was naive, in the way Americas attempt to bring freedom to the natives of Iraq was naive. It only ends up with good people having their heads cut off by savages. "
Quite right. This is why I don't curse when I use
the word "neoconservative". I think many of these
people had noble impulses, they were just naive.
As they say, the road to hell is paved with good
intentions.
So Sebastien, the more important question now is,
"What becomes of France?". The trajectory France
is on now leads to destruction. Will France awake
before it is too late?
Elliot,
Welcome aboard. I'd be curious to hear your opinion about the following:
Virtually every Islamic nation legally prevents Muslims from changing religion, legally prevents non-Muslims from discussing their religion with Muslims, legally prevents criticism of Islam/Sharia law/ohammed, etc. Legally prevents non-Muslims from the open practice of religion. Etc. Etc.
Meanwhile, throughout the West, Muslims have all rights mentioned above AND attempt to enforce restrictions on Western society (Killing/Fatwas of critics of Islam/Mohammed: Theo Van Gogh, Salmon Rushdie, Denmark Comic issue, murder/threats against Dutch politicians, etc. etc.).
Is the world supposed to sit back and allow this open unfairness to continue without making efforts to require equal treatment? For example, don't we have moral authority to curtail/restrict Islam in the West if the Islamic nations continue the legal discrimination? Doesn't this involve immigration issues.
Another thought:
The problem is that religions are not the same. The Western ideals (freedom, equality, etc.) come from a Judeo-Christian background and ideology. Democracy/ind freedom can exist in the Western Tradition because the teachings of Jesus Christ are unique in the religious split between this world and the next. Islam cannot allow for separation of Church and State. Islam holds that Sharia Law must dominate all humans and it is the obligation for Muslims to bring this about. Individual rights, democracy, freedoms (speech, religion, etc.) are not valued under Islam. "Community Virtue" trumps everything. Therefore, Islamic society cannot allow non-Muslims the freedoms Westerners allow Muslims.
Turkey was the only Islamic democracy of any repute only because Kamel Attaturk destroyed Islam in the public square. He forced complete secularization outside the private sphere. His reforms are now falling apart.
When you disussed the immigration issue, you are talking from a context of "all religions are basically the same". I know you don't admit that, but that is what you are doing. Islam (as an ideology) seeks world domination and does not value freedom and democracy. It is not fair in it's reciprocity of treatment of those outside Islam. It never will be. Therefore, allowing unhindered immigration and attempting to build up Islamic society (while Islam retains it's values and treatment of non-Muslims) is a recipe for absolute disaster in the West.
Elliot, I would recommend you do some serious research into the Koran, Hadiths, and Sira. If you are unknowledgable about the Bible, I'd recommend you do some serious research into the roots of Judeo-Christian thought/values. A problem with globalists: they discount the DNA (religion) of society. You cannot discount the DNA of society and attempting to do so will bring ruin.
France is lost, they just dont realize it yet. I suppose it will dawn upon them when they run out of cars.
Je sais que M Jacques Supermenteur et son gouvernement de "droit" sont epris de l'idee de conceder du tresor francais aux Arabes. Mais pourquoi voyager tellement lointain au Moyen Orient pour donner des dons? Il y a beaucoup d'Arabes chez eux en France meme. Ces Arabes plus proches accepteront de l'argent volontiers. Et l'argent restera en France, dans l'economie francaise. La France peut cesser d'envoyer de son tresor aux Arabes dits "Palestiniens." Les Arabes en France meme ne sont-ils pas plus meritants?
These deserving Arab denizens of the banlieues, aren't they more deserving of the dinars that France sends to the palestinian authority? Stop the injustice of favoring the palestinian authority Arabs to Arabs in France itself, who will even keep the money in the French economy!!
CORRECTION: previous should read "favoring palestinian authority Arabs over Arabs in France itself."