Israel: suicide bombing outside mall kills 5

Constantinople:

You are far from alone in your convictions that leaving is wrong and staying is fraught with all sorts of bad things, but what stay we must. It's even the front cover story on the current issue of The Economist, which certainly didn't support the invasion. We are living in the strangest times -- wherein the domestic media is so thoroughly ideologically opposed to anything the government says or does and has distorted the news from and about Iraq beyond belief and the government, in its despiration has also done foolish things that have caused it great embarrassment. How else do you explain the incredible attention paid to the opinions of an obscure member of the House of Reps who has never been there(Jack Murta) as it is consistent with the the MSM's point of view, and the poor coverage of Joe Lieberman's fairly positive report, based on four trips over there.

Military control of Gaza, which the Jewish villages (not "settlements") helped dilute, and also maintained a justified claim to the territory, and the removal of which has led to triumphalism among the "Palestinian" and other Arab Muslims which can only whet, not sate, their appetites for more, and which has furthermore been a source of friction, demoralization, and despair in Israel itself, needs to be maintained. Gaza is right there, awthwart the historic invasion from the south -- and juts deep into Israel. It is a place from which attacks are launched, have been launched, will be launched.

Iraq is quite different. It is thousands of miles from the United States. It is therefore costing that same United States hundreds of billions of dollars, for the men and equipment there, and the desert conditions degrade that equipment at rates far faster than anything that was ever planned or contemplated. Under Saddam Hussein Iraq was a monstrous place. He was a threat to his own subjects, and killed many of them. One might therefore deplore him. His regime was a threat to Iran and Saudi Arabia, and therefore one had not to deplore him. He was a worry to Israel becuase of his support for terrorists (those $25,000 awards to the families of dead terrorists), and because of his aggression and growing armory -- but it was, and is, Iran that mainly worried the Israelis.

Iraq is a place where men, money (and the corruption in contracts-awarding is another story), materiel (that desert-degrading), and morale (of the military, forced to go on a thankless errand, one that continues because the Administration is too embarrassed and too timid to admit, even tacitly, to its misreading of Iraq and its gross misunderstanding of the menace, and the instruments, of Jihad).

There is only one element of similarity. The only good that can possibly come, for the Israelis, out of their withdrawal from Gaza is if the "Palestinians" dissolve into chaos and internecine warfare. That would be a desirable result. In Iraq, the best result would be the very "instability" and "civil war" that the Administration, and apparently all Right-Thinking People, deplore. Well, they can pretend to deplore it, they can use other words, such as saying "we need to leave because sooner or later the Iraqis have to decide by themselves if they can live together, or not -- we can't make them, and we shouldn't make them." (That's a fine way to put it, perfectly acceptable). And then hope that the ethnic and sectarian fissures will draw the attention, the men, the materiel, the money, from the Sunnis and Shi'a alike, and meanwhile, the Americans can concentrate on drawing up real plans, for use everywhere, in dealing with the menace of Jihad.

The first thing is Iran (and let us hope Iran becomes further entangled in Iraq, not less; any Sunni bombs, or even Iraqi Shi'a attacks, on Iranians would be welcome). The second thing is the islamization of Europe -- which partly depends on the continued wilful ignorance of Infdiels everywhere, and partly not on wilfulness, but on loss of will. It is early, there is plenty of time to reverse what might in a decade or two be much harder to deal with.

In the end it will be necessary to discuss all those things that so-called Nice People, Good People, Compassionate People, seem to think they can dismiss by calling those things "unthinkable." Benes, Masaryk, the Sudeten Germans, the Benes Decree. At least let the means for self-protectiononce deemed so obvous and so acceptable in the Western world, and practiced today everywhere within the Muslims lands (where large-scale expulsions of fellow Muslims have taken place in Saudi Arabia (Yemenis), Kuwait ("Palestinians"), Libya (Egyptians and "Palestinians"), be brought to the attention of those who may decide what is, or is not, "unthinkable" in tryinig to preserve their lives and their civilization. What do the current largely unimpressive inhabitants of the decadent and idiotized Western world owe those who, over more than two thousand years, created that world, left that legacy? Anything at all? Or will it all go down in a sea of Muslim overbreeding and aggression, and Infidel ignorance, confusion, and fear of giving offense?

If the Gaza withdrawal has taught us anything, its that population transfer works. Since the Palestinians are doing the killings, they must be transfered the already-in-existence Palestinian state called Jordan.

And yes, if population transfer is good enough for post-WW II Europe (where millions of ethnic Germans were kicked out of their countries, to "go back" to Germany), and millions of ethnic Japanese were kicked out of Manchuria and many other places, then its good enough for the "Palestinians"

If the Arabs can't play by the rules, then they can't be in the game.

I'm starting to get a nagging feeling that the advice/cajoling given to Israel by Condoleeza Rice and tag-team partner Jimmy "f*ck the Jews" Baker might not necessarily be in Israel's best interests.

A perfect example of the mentality of muslims, and specifically in this case, the "palestinians." Give, and they want to take more. If Sharon thought that the giving of Gaza would make them happy, he was dead wrong. Giving up Gaza was probably the worst thing he could have done. Muslims have a messed up and backward way of thinking. They think that the Israelis giving up of Gaza was a "victory" for the palestinian jihad. What it was, in reality, was Sharon attempting to put an end to the attacks on Israelis by the palestinians. But, due to the way of thinking of muslims, it had the adverse effect. We see what happens to those who try to appease the islamists. We see what's happening in Europe, and to those who were opposed to the war in Iraq, such as France. Muslims turned on them just as easily as anyone else. We have to understand, they don't want to live in peace with those of other faiths, they want to dominate those of other faiths, and, in effect, the whole world. They want nothing less than the entire planet, all for their demon allah. To try to reason with them, is only to prolong the coming worldwide jihad. They do not understand reason. They only understand domination and destruction. The only answer to these fiends, is complete destruction of their belief system. They have brought this upon themselves, and they cannot be trusted, at all. As far as our situation in Iraq, I would have to agree that there is no easy answer on what we should do, but just stay and wait, and see what happens.

Reacting to the news of this bombing, this is what Abu Mazen had to say:

"Those who are responsible should be hunted down by the Palestinian police. The Palestinian Authority will have no tolerance for such actions."

Judith Apter Klinghoffer points out in response:

"This week, he approved the budget designed to take care of families of such terrorists to whom the PA refers to in official documents as Shahids, i.e., 'martyrs.' Each family will get $250 a month from the PA.* Married ones get an extra $50 and children $25 per child. All in all, $11,000,000 will be paid by these official terror paymasters to the families of men they supposedly condemn. Of course, these families receive additional sums from 'charities.'"

* $250/month is a great deal of money in the PA, and where the families are typically large, the $25/child "bonus" is a nice benefit escalator.

Another murder of innocents in the name of Allah?
How many more will it take? Millions? Billions before the west opens its eyes?

If something is not done to prevent the islamist whack-jobs of Iran from getting their hands on a credible nuclear threat, the only chance for the west to survive will ,sooner or later, be total war. It will be too late for anything less. Anything less would guarantee defeat. Islam will not recoil from its mandate from Allah. All must submit to the will of God. Such fanatics cannot be reasoned with. Islam is the reason.

In order to once and for all insure the security and freedom of western posterity, the enemy will have to be confronted and either killed or de-islamified. The twisted, satanic cult of Mohammed must be stamped out for it will never otherwise be rendered gentle.

The backbone-endowed part of the western world will have no choice because its fate at the hands of muslim masters is spelled out in the pages of history and the teachings of the Quran and hadiths.

Generations of brainwashed europeans are incapable of contemplating war in self-defense because it would involve terrible sacrifice. Europe has so thoroughly devalued itself that it does not consider itself worthy of sacrifice.

In all likelihood, the diversity-obsessed, multi-culti worshiping lands of the cheese eating surrender monkey will suffer the same submissive fate at the hands of islam whether Iran gets nukes or not. The timing of total war will determine if europe will actually be drawn into the final confrontation on behalf of islam.

If the decisive war between enlightenment and islam is delayed a generation or so, the dhimmi remnants and janissary armies of europe will suffer the same fate as their Muslim lords. What an exquisitely just destiny, profound in its irony, for the pusillanimy of modern eurabia.

Funny. Those of the Islamic faith are always screaming about the innocent civilians--women and children--killed by the evil, imperialist U.S., and yet they think nothing of blowing themselves apart in the middle of a crowded shopping mall. I guess those shoppers were infidels...

Here is a more complete story on official PA reaction to the Netanya attack:

From Israel National News:

PA in Official Response: Netanya Attack Bad for PA Elections
14:05 Dec 05, '05 / 4 Kislev 5766

(IsraelNN.com) A senior PA official responsible for negotiations with Israel, Saeb Erekat, told the Arab Al Jazeera news agency that this morning's attack against Israelis in Netanya was bad for “the process of elections for the Palestinian council.”

Erekat made his statement to Al Jazeera as part of an official announcement by the Palestinian Authority condemning the Netanya attack.

Erekat’s statement, however, did not condemn the attack because it resulted in the deaths of five innocent people and the wounding of 40 others.

In Erekat’s statement for the PA, he said, “The attack does not serve the interests of the Palestinians, and threatens the stability of the calm, and the process of elections for the Palestinian council.”

In other words, the PA once again deplores acts of terror against Jews only insofar as it will slow down the diplomatic dismembering of Israel.

Hugh said "The only good that can possibly come, for the Israelis, out of their withdrawal from Gaza is if the "Palestinians" dissolve into chaos and internecine warfare."

But if (or rather, when) that occurs, it is Israel who will bear the "blame" for the killing of Muslims by Muslims. Just as the U.S. will get the "blame" in Iraq.

As if either Israel (which has existed for less than 100 years) or the U.S. (which has existed a little over 200 years) is responsible for the 1400+ bloody years of Muslim violence. As if the Muslims are not capable of committing these atrocities on their own, with no assistance from the all-powerful Great Satan. As if "blame" was more appropriate than "credit", when applied to "Palestine" and Iraq.

There's a limit to how long that nonsense of blaming the Infidels for the violence and idiocy of Muslim life can continue. I think that limit has been reached -- in Gaza, and in Iraq. In Iraq it will not be hard to point out the sources of Sunni-Shi'a friction, or that between Arab and non-Arab Muslim. In fact, one should welcome the fact that the American government, in defending itself, will have to make such internecine hatreds known, will have to learn about them itself, and in so doing, may begin to get a glimmer of the old Roman idea "divide and conquer." It is not a notion that is hard to grasp.

sheik yer'mami said "But then we cannot fight them, because they will always outdo us in cruelty and atrocities."

I doubt many here want to engage the Muslims in a competition for cruelty and atrocities. They can have that award all to their lone selves.

There are so many things to do, so many reasonable and rational things to do, to protect ourselves. Limit immigration of "radical Muslims". Severely punish those who support the "radical Muslims", including those who donate money at their local mosque that ends up in the hands of the jihadists. Reduce our dependence on oil. And so on.

Let the "Palestinians" uulate as they dance around with body parts of other "Palestinians" in the glow of a burning "Palestinian" bus. Ditto for Iraq. Our job is to protect American (and Canadian, British, Israeli, Austrailian, etc.) lives, full stop.

Waterdragon. Jack Murtha may not have been to Iraq, but unlike the chicken hawks, whom you seem to champion, he has actually fought in wars and was a decorated hero.

I get so pissed, that I could wring the neck of Chicken hawks, that call real patriots traitors, Chickenhawks who mouth crap like "cut and run" when none of their sorry asses has ever been in harms way, or like Cheney got five deferments and Bush went AWOL from the Texas Air National Guard of all things.

Hugh has hit it on the head, staying in Iraq is a no win situation, all we are doing is providing the Islamo's with a recruiting center and training ground for mujahideen, wasting our economy (perhaps bankrupting our nation, diverting national attention and resources away from real problems and solutions which could detox us from oil, dividing our fractured country even further, and putting our sons and daughters in harms way.. for what?

For absolutely nothing.

Here comes the clincher though, and I am loathe to make this comment here.

It is a conspiracy theory not only amongst Muslims, that the reason we are in Iraq is because of Israel. It is a theory that is supported by wording the Clean Break document, (Clean Break: A strategy for securing the realm) prepared for the Israel Institute of Advanced and Strategic and Political Studies. Black and white at the link signed by Richard Perle, American Enterprise Institute, Study Group Leader

James Colbert, Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs
Charles Fairbanks, Jr., Johns Hopkins University/SAIS
Douglas Feith, Feith and Zell Associates
Robert Loewenberg, President, Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies
Jonathan Torop, The Washington Institute for Near East Policy
David Wurmser, Institute for Advanced Strategic and Political Studies
Meyrav Wurmser, Johns Hopkins University

And it doesn't help any, for Zionist and Jews to be in the forefront of the "Don't withdraw crowd", while America per se is generally supportive of Israel and wants Israel to survive, they are not at all supportive of starting wars, going into debt for decades to come,and sacrificing the lives of their children for another country, not even Israel.

The excuses given for invading Iraq have been proven to be false (in fact lies).

And if we stay the course, as chicken hawks want, we accomplish nothing except to provide the mujahideen more opportunity to recruit and train more Jihadis' (shades of Afghanistan and the Afghanistan Bosnia network). In fact it was Afghanistan, our funding of the mujahideen, which kick started and breathed life into the Islamists.

Unintended adverse consequences.

Which is the bigger threat to western civilization? The Muslim or the Commies. Communism collapsed of it's own dead weight and Marxism has been discredited, though I'm sure that some need to keep it alive romantically, or as a convenient foil and distraction.. but died it did in 1989, and all that is left is romantic wishful thinking.

There are only two communist governments left. Laos and China, Laos is off the radar and insignificant and China is a favored trading partner whose currency is pegged to ours.

NAZIism died in 1945, totally discredited, yet there are still NAZI's hanging around (and they too are gasp "right wing", they certainly aren't leftists.. they hate the left and liberals, consider them Jews and minions of the Jews).

As regards Gaza. Bear this in mind, every Jew in Gaza was a potential hostage to the Arabs, and a signficant drain on the Israeli economy as it required expenditures for protection and security.

No more. Now Israel doesn't have to worry about it's citizens in Gaza when the Arabs act up, they can seal it off in a flash, cut off the water and power, and entrances. Gaza is actually now one hell of a large cantonement area, and there are no potential Jewish hostages living therein, thus no reason to go soft in response to acts of terrorism or aggression that originate in Gaza

I've actually heard (on Mosaic) Palestinians complain that now that the Jews are gone out of Gaza it is a prison. (More Muslim hyperbole, as any country (thanks to borders and customs and passports) can be called a prison.

What they want is access from the "Westbank" to Gaza, and I think that a long underground tunnel could provide that.. costly project., but it will let them flow from one side to the other, without comprimising Israeli security, and if they blow up the tunnel (which should have sensors and videos monitored by Israel) then they cut their own throats, just so long as their are no housing or major building built over the tunnel path.

one of the main reasons why the PA and their fellow islamofacist henchment aka hammas can get away with killing Jews in Israel,is that they have a willing accomplice, the "Media".

Constantinople~ Right there with you. No pun intended.

I half-dread the coming elections ('06 and '08). I am pretty sure there will Not be a third Republican in a row in the White House.... and the Dhimmitude that follows will be incredibly bad for the world.