Muslims offer to guard Christian churches in Indonesia

This is just another meaningless gesture by lying Muslims. It may be designed to ally fears by those who are beginning to scrutinize the actions of Muslims across the globe. This is designed to assure them -- to quite their fears. There are those who will maintain that things like this are important -- grasp desperately onto items like this to bolster their convictions that Islam couldn't possibly be the problem. It is a hollow gesture towards the threatened minorities in Indonesia, and worse, it is a propaganda ploy by the wolf, petting the sheep and saying "See? We don't eat sheep! -- you can relax now... go back to grazing and dreaming... it's so much better when you're relaxed, and distracted, and tender..."

Muslims guarding Christians churches? Yeah right!
It's probably an ambush to slaughter all non-muslims in one place at the same time. Indonesia has made it perfectly clear that they want their country to be 100% muslim.

Give the Fox the guard duties to the hen houses!!
Just a couple of weeks ago we saw the same savages wearing Islamic headbands sitting in a court room with seven coffins - 3 coffins for the 3 poor women in the dock for taking kids on an outing and 4 coffins to intimidate the judges for an Islamic verdict; if not their fate was sealed.

I'd rather leave my dog in charge of my Big Mac.

Wolves guarding the sheep pen.

or

Foxes guarding the chicken coop.

Of all the Muslim parties/groups in Indonesia, NU is the oldest and largest. It has always been very tolerant of other groups/faiths. The most wellknown NU leader is ex president Wahid.

It is losing members to the more radical Muslim groups and/or parties.

After the Pasuruan riots, where churches were burned, a pastor and his family died and which also spread to other towns in East Java, the youth section, this same one who has offered to protect the churches, issued a report on their investigation of riots.

It is an unbiased report, in which it clearly stated that the riots were caused not by any of the Christians/churches burned, but by Muslims themselves. It particularly names a cleric which was alleged to have used his influence to pressure the government to sentenced to death another Muslim that was prosecuted for blasphemy. This cleric's anger at this Muslim was apparently cause by some land dispute.

NU was the face of Indonesian's Muslims before the petro dollars from the Saudi Arabia started sending their Wahabi-ism to Indonesia, a face of tolerance towards other faiths.

NU has lost ground, lost a lot of its members since then the petro dollars started to influence Islam in Indonesia.

Wahhabism is islam's real face.

Suppose we would begin to say: "Hey, the stone age was a great time! let's go back there!"

And then, going back in our quest we would inevitably find backwardness, superstition, brutality, mindless violence, lack of hygiene, and so on and so forth.

This should not come as a surprise, for this is what you would find if you insist on going back there.

In the same manner the Wahhabis keep saying that the mellow indonesian muslims are not islamic enough and want to go back to the age of the Prophet.
And when was that? 1,400 years ago.
Where? in a forsaken desert untouched by the Egyptian, Babylonian or Greek civilizations, which had remained very slightly above the stone age culturally.

And what will they find those Wahhabis on the quest for islamic roots: backwardness, superstition, brutality, mindless violence, lack of hygiene, and so on and so forth.

What else could they find?

Rocky, same page. First thought I had when I saw this was the fox offers to guard the hen house.

This is the equivalent of having the KKK guard a black church in the Jim Crow era. Unacceptable.

l would rather trust one of my dogs to guard a BIG MACK anytime over any muslim! rather than let the muslim near a church, let the Christians arm themselves for their own protection!

Give the Fox the guard duties to the hen houses!!

-exactly!

The Muslim men are probably just working out which female they will abuse/behead/rape down the track.

I'm sure the Christians will feel much safer now!

How about we reciprocate - lets send in marines to guard Mecca.

>

Bloody well said!
Last I remember, we were doing that when osama decided to make that fact his rallying cry against America. We should never have left Saudi, merely increased our guard around the Royal palace and the oil fields as well....

Dingoes minding the maternity ward.

3rdtimelucky rightly said:"The Muslim men are probably working out which female they will abuse/behead/rape down the track." When the Koran clearly commands that muslims must stay away from Christians ,this plot of protection sounds real sneaky. I dont know they will demand "JIZIYA' for their work!. We christians are taught to turn the other cheek, from our childhood days,but the same Jesus took a WHIP to protect the temple from the merchants,money changers,etc.He forcebly toppled the tables of money lenders,and chased out those hooligans with a whip!! Why the church pasters and leaders never ever emphasise this fact to christians- to be more agressive in protecting their faith ,country and rights? You cannot deal peacefully with these guys,who dont have a heart. A thorn in your leg should be taken out by a similar thorn only. In this respect,cant President Bush,who is agreeing to supply arms to Indinesia warn that govenment to guard the churches,and be responsible for the safety of christians,as we in America and the West protect these UNGREATFUL pests?? USA not even protested for the gruesome beheadings of three innocent chritians girls! Time is nearing for the entire world uprising against this Satan.

Or what about pigs to guard mosques?

We are left asking the question: Why is "guarding Christian churches" a necessity? The solution for the problem created by Islam and Muslims should be a change of attitude and the elimination of those that threaten and attack rather than putting the onus on the victims.

This I personally am not going criticize. In fact, this may be a gesture of sincere good will. I can hope...

Let us wait and see what happens with this before we speak negatively--if it turns out to be a trap or something to that effect THEN we can open our traps and open fire (I might).

Indonesians are NOT Arabs or Iranians, whatever else is to be said for or against them. Indonesia is not the Middle East. And many of Indonesia's current serious troubles with terrorism originated THERE and are not in fact homegrown. Note the infamous Indonesian terror-master, Bashir, is of YEMENI ANCESTRY-- NOT Indonesian...

It is not even clear WHO exactly in Jakarta has been pushing Indonesia deeper into orthodox Islam--something Indonesians have traditionally and usually successfuly resisted.

Pythagoras:

I tend to agree with your take on matters. the announced action did mention that other faith groups were invited to join in the watch. Let's see what happens.

Another poster mentioned infusion of Wahhabibucks as the cause of radicalization in Indonesia. This would be quite a smoking gun if true. How does the East Timor timeline match up with the history of Saudi funding in Indonesia? Does anybody know off hand?

Chatillion:

32 years ago I travelled extensively in Indonesia.
No women was wearing headscarves or any other form of 'portable seclusion'-in Malaysia you could see it here and there, mostly in the vicinity of the mosques. I was there in 1970, just one year after the Mohammedan 'culling' of mostly ethnic Chinese and Indians, who were seen as prosperous while the Malay-muslims banged their heads on the floor of the local mosque (sarc: That time the jihad was definitely out of envy) In Kuala Lumpur that time they killed about
20 000 infidels.
Hugh posted here about the killing,raping and looting of the Chinese community in Indonesia where Jihad-warfare was proclaimed to be 'anti-communist' - they killed about half a million mostly Chinese then, but they did they same thing about 7 years ago, when muslims raped, robbed, looted and killed the Chinese in Jakarta while the police looked on. I think there are not that many Chinese business-owners left now in Indonesia.

But your question is about the nexus of Saudi-petrodollars and Wahabism in those countries:

The enormous (undeserved) wealth of the Arabs attracted large numbers of workers to the Gulf-states, where they were quickly indoctrinated and often returned with money and lots of religious fervor to their home-countries. They started up mosques and madrassahs, made gifts of money to the' right people' and kept sending more and more young people to be indoctrinated by the Saudis.

So, if you ask me is this related, I can assure you it is and this is a first hand account, I spent most of my adult life in Asia and this is a depressing, worrisome development.

One should mention that all this started in the early seventies,

With 747's and DC 10's affordable Jet-travel came the oil-shocks, which increased Arab wealth massively over night. Much of that money was ploughed into the worldwide Jihad.

Thanks Sheik.

Since the 1990s there has been a very large number of Middle Easterners immigrating into Indonesia which is likely continuing. Very little information has been available about who these people are. But the fact that they are from the Middle East entering a country which has not fully been Islamicized (Indonesians still practice many religions, many of them indigenous and many unrelated to Islam), the general blackout of info on this, and the tone of recent developments there should serve as a red flag.

The number of Middle Easterners entering Indonesia, I have read, is large enough to significantly alter the country's basic demographic statistics--so it must be a pretty staggering amount of immigration. Indonesia's political and religious situation has likely been heavily affected by this--in fact this could be the explanation for much of the recent trouble and unrest there. It is possible that we are witnessing a clandestine invasion aided and abetted by corrupt Jakarta officials and possibly the Indonesian Armed Forces. There is also a possiblity that this Middle Easternization of Indonesia is somehow related to the massive "illegal logging" operations that have been devastasting Indonesia's remaining tropical forests.

With regards to the global jihad, this could be one of the most under-reported developments. Disturbing.

#epg
You asked: Why is "guarding Christian churches" a necessity?

The reason is that Muslims act instinctively like gangsters.

Islam has many common points with gangsterism: The readiness to do violence, firm belief in their own superiority, fascination with their own strength, recklessness, despising the ones who are out of the "gang". So it comes naturally to them to bully and oppress minorities.
The measure has twofold benefits:

The first (short term one) one is economical, they will cash on the service of their "protection."

The second one (long term one) has to do with intimidation by means of systematic humiliation the spreading of fear, "teaching those guys their proper place". Its eventual goal is to make the atmosphere in Indonesia unbearable for Christians so that they will either emigrate or convert.

You could well say that Islam is "religious gangsterism" instead of a true religion.