This is part of a larger pattern of appropriating the history and heritage of non-Muslim peoples, which is rooted in assertions such as "Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah's (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah" (Qur'an 3:67).
From Israel National News, with thanks to S.:
The Palestinian Authority’s Office for Religious Affairs claims that the Western Wall, revered by Jews for generations as the last structural remnant of the Second Holy Temple, is Moslem property.The PA office claims Moslem ownership of the Western Wall by referring to the wall on its website as the Al-Boraq Wall. According to Moslem legend, the wall is the place where Mohammed parked his horse, named Boraq, before ascending to heaven.
Moslem tradition holds that Mohammed rose to heaven from the Temple Mount, though that idea is not mentioned anywhere in the Koran, the central text of the Moslem faith.
The Palestinian Authority’s official website, echoing the claims of its religious affairs office, also attempts to negate Jewish ownership of the Western Wall.
Rabbi Chaim Richman, Director of the International Department of the of the Temple Institue in Jerusalem, said that the PA’s claims of Moslem ownership of the Western Wall has “far reaching implications” for Israel.
Richman said that the PA’s denial of the Jewish Temple's existence “is part of a campaign to totally eradicate, erase, and destroy all Jewish connection to the Temple Mount, Jerusalem, and the land of Israel.”
“If we have no connection to the Temple Mount, then we have no connection to Jerusalem, and no right to anywhere in the land of Israel,” he added.
No sale. Muslim "tradition" does not trump well-documented Jewish history. Thanks for playing, but we are not stupid. These claims should be rebuffed immediately, given no serious consideration, and these people propogating these blatant lies should not be given a platform.
Also, Abraham was not a Jew or a Christian, but a father of many nations. However, he worshipped the G-d of Israel, not Allah. It's typical Muslim replacement theology, they take a figure that is supposed to symbolize the unity of humanity through faith and pervert him as a pre-cursor to Muhammad. That's the problem with Islam coming in existence so late, they are at pains to explain its prehistory and they end up making ridiculous claims like Alexander the Great was a Muslim.
I am so sick of muslims' claims of "everything was islamic", islam didn't exist until around 800 A.D., two centuries after muhammad's birth. Just because people claim something doesn't make it true. (Hey, I claim that Mega-Bucks lotto! Did that work?)
Israel has G-d on their side, baal is on the other side. Jerusalem is G-d's city and the capital of Israel, like it or not.
Muslims have only two operating modes: triumphalism and humiliation. It runs against the nature of a free spirit to humiliate another human being -- even an enemy -- so we make concessions and compromises as Moshe Dyan did after the 1967 War, ceding control of the Temple Mount to Jordan. The Islamofascist wars will go on for 50-100 years because we don't have the heart to do what's necessary to defeat the barbarians.
There is no legitimate Muslim claim to Jerusalem except that based on the belief, after the Qur'an was written, that the phrase "the farthest mosque" should be attributed to a site in Jerusalem. Thus undoubtedly was decided, after much debate and even early rejection of that idea, by Abd-el Malik the ruler of Damascus.
As for the Arab inscriptions on what is called the Dome of the Rock, they are in Arabic, but they have been assumed to be Qur'anic, or at least verses that were intended to be Islamic.
But were they? Or were they something different, and do we merely assume because the Arabic language is used, that the verses are Islamic in nature?
One who thinks the Arabic verses on this Byzantine martyrium now known as the Dome of the Rock are not Islamic at all is the German scholar Christoph Luxenberg.
See his essay on the matter in "Die dunklen Anfange," a collection of essays published a month ago in Germany. What is in that essay will, of course, be carefully passed over in silence by Muslims and those whose idea of doing the history of earl Islam is to follow the Muslim narrative, never daring to question it, never daring to waver from the true path. But while the Whelans and the Fred Donners of this world will continue to plow their unproductive fields, along comes a Goldziher (to question the Hadith), a Wansbrough (to revolutionize the attitudes of Western scholars toward study of the Qur'an), or Patricia Crone to offer her skepticism about the existence of Mecca in the 7th century, and then comes Luxenberg, harking back in a line from Arthur Jeffery to Mingana, to tell us that the Qur'an makes little sense unless its knotty indecipherables are read with the Aramaic subtext, ur-text, understood, put back.
And what's more, now comes Luxenberg again to look, more closely than anyone, at the actual Arabic that almost no non-Muslim scholars have ever bothered to examine critically, and of course no Muslims would dare to, for their version of the history of Islam has nothing to do with the kind of Higher Criticism that Wellhausen and a cast of thousands of scholars were able to employ in studying the history of the sacred texts of Christianity and of Judaism. For Islam, only the Believer's Version will do.
Along comes Luxenberg, looks up at the Dome of the Rock, sees things that he thinks are worth study and investigation and analysis, and proceeds to do so.
It will be interesting to see what, if anything, is written about this or the other essays in this excellent volume. Few of the members of MESA Nostra are competent to comment upon Luxenberg, or for that matter on the other contributors (Larcher, Gilliot, Puin, and others). Those at the loyal, Muslim-narrative Muslim-agenda Massad-Khalidi-Dashabi level of "scholarship" cannot conceivably deal with this material. They exist, they have jobs and in many cases tenure, they attend departmental meetings and give courses that are guides to nothing and nowhere (but the students hardly know that -- only much later will they discover what they have been uninformed about that is going on in the world of real scholarship). But who feels able to monitor them? Not the suave fund-raising university presidents. Not the other don't-rock-the-boat administrators. Not other faculty members who have their doubts, but are reluctant to voice them -- why bother? why get in trouble? what does it matter if that whole field or whole department is a joke or a quasi-joke, and who cares about those pesky and ignorant students anyway? Let's just stay away from that matter.).
Meanwhile, Luxenberg and others continue to produce. And the real history of scholarship on early Islam and the Qur'an continues, with far more modest contributions than, given the numbers of university researchers supposedly interested in the field, one might have expected.
Eventually even to belong to MESA Nostra will be seen as somewhat comical and suspect. When will the revolt of its sensible members take place? When will they revolt, and form a new group, devoid of politics and devoid of subservience, in the study of Islam, to Islam itself? The other day Roger Shattuck died; he had been among the founders of a group fed up with the poltical tendentiousness (and all sorts of other things) at the MLA. Even though the group he helped found has by nwowcongealed into yet another group, with a bureaucracy, and Official Dinners, and careerist jostling for position, and the same annual meetings that turn out to be in the end such melancholy and depressing affairs as all such get-togethers for what should be a private matter (reading and writing) will always turn out to be (but if you are an officer of the thing, that adds one more grant-getting line or two to the resume, and isn't that what it's all about?), still the idea was a good one.
And eventually some rebels within MESA Nostra will get sick of the whole thing -- only after they get tenure of course -- and announce their new group (no Khalidis, Massads, Dabashis or Donners need apply), which, at least for a few decades, may save the honor of Islamic and Middle Eastern studies in this country.
Or perhaps not.
And perhaps no one will comment on Luxenberg's arguments, or all the other work that is being done by scholars who would not be out of place with Snouck Hurgronje or Schacht, but have nothing in common with MESA Nostra as it is currently constituted.
Let's watch and see.
So what's new here. Muslims claim all of Israel as Muslim territory (along with Spain, France, Italy, Malta, Greece, Macedonia, Croatia, Serbia, Albania, anywhere the flag flew or a Muslim trod..they in fact claim the world, just not politic to put forth that claim publicly, might alert the kufr and cost them support}
Abraham was a Muslim
Moses was a Muslim
Jesus was a Muslim--Oh Yes
The man,who escorted Columbus,when he discovered America was a Muslim
When Neil Armstrong went to moon,he heard a faint Muslim 'call of Prayer'(Deen)on the moon,,and instantly he became a Muslim.(For Allah will permit only Muslims to set foot on moon)
The Greek- Alexander the Great was a Muslim-So all the Greek inventions in medicions,science,and mathamatics are Muslim inventions.(and the Western guys just stole all these knowledge,and claimed they were the inventors)
Allah said the Koran contains the whole knowlege in the entire universe. So no harm in destroying all other books of knowlege.
Mohamed flew to heavan on his 'flying horse' from Jesrusalem.-so it is the Muslims who invented the first Airplane.
First man Adam was a Muslim,and Allah gave the entire earth to him to enjoy.So the whole world belongs to Muslim.
....I am not jokeing,but these are the things taught by the fanatic, illiterate mullas in the Madarasas to the equally illiterate students in the Middle eastern countries, and muslim Countries like Pakistan and Indonesia.
This is the logical result of the Israeli government's refusal to confront what is surely the greatest archaeological crime in history...the Waqf's destruction of the remains of the first and second temples under the pretext of expanding the Aksa mosque underground. There is now just a pile of rubble outside the south wall of the compound.
the PA seems to think by saying something over and over, it will become the truth.. enough stupid muslims to believe their own lies... what the heck no need for proof, just say it is, and it is!!
This latest and most dangerous lunacy by the PA should be the final straw for Israeli negotiations and for any money or assistance that the Bush adminstration is thinking of throwing at the Palestinian black hole. Unfortunately, this probably won't be the final outrage. The Palestinians will continue on with their hatred and violence and the generous amounts of sympathy and money that pours into them from all parts of the world will also continue.
EVERYTHING belongs to the great Allaballawallah!
Don't question it, just hand it over.
Just lie down and let 'em have it...
Pay the Jiziya with 'willing submission", while being humiliated, beaten, spat upon and finally killed or forcibly converted...
Let's be good dhimmi's,
give 'em Israel, Al Andaluz, Chechnya, Thailand, Australia, everything and more.
You disagree? What are you, some kind of Islamophobe...?
Muslims claim that everything is theirs, and always has been. It's part of their take over the world or die tryin' mentality. But the very idea, that the Temple Mount, or the Western Wall, belongs to Muslims, not only has no basis whatsoever in their Koran, but no basis historically or archaeologically either. The Western Wall is theirs because Mo' parked his horse there? What rubbish. What's next, the Vatican belongs to muslims because Mo' took a big crap there? Or the Church of the Holy Seplchre belongs to muslims because Mo's second donkey wife cheated on him there, several hundred years before ol' Mo' was born? It's one thing to make claims that are historically vague, but it's a whole other thing to make claims on things that is historically known to be untrue. And that's not the worst part; muslims, who claim to be so intelligent, fall for such garbage. And what's worse than that, is that the dhimmi EU, UN, etc., will probably give it to them, knowing that they have no claim to the Jewish Holy site whatsoever. It's also odd to me, that, while muslims make the claim that there was never a Jewish Temple on the spot, they absolutely refuse to allow archaeologists access to the site for research. Sounds to me like they're hiding something they don't want the rest of the world, especially the ummah, to know. Of course, we see that all the time with muslims, like, "we only want nuclear energy for fuel, we're not making nukes, but you can't come in and check and make sure, and oh, by the way, we want Israel wiped off the map." What garbage that muslims spew.
No doubt the Palestinian Authority will claim that Israels' reluctance to bend to this absolutely ridiculous request as another sign of israeli agression. Just like that moment last week when an isreali missle sent 5 more jihadis to meet allah after the mall bombing that killed an injured innocent jewish citizens.
Those darn JOOOS, always stirring up trouble!!!
From Faith Freedom,
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/GeraldHonigman51125.htm
Jerusalem is not mentiond in the qur'an.
At the rate they are going, they will control the western wall, Europe and soon, the planet.
This group have been, to quote the Danish Peoples Party, terrorists from the getgo; they cannot change their ways now, because their terrorism is all 'holy writ'; mo's way must be followed, and, they obey.
Unless our leaders lead, the mob, as in todays riot in Australia, will do the job.
It is high time that islam is exposed for what it is:
A sham. Pure falsehood and deceit.
As long as it is taken seriously and considered obne of the world's "great religions", we will have to endurem islam's insulting behaviour.
Islam's greatest accomplishment, and not a mean one, is to have convinced the media, the political elites and the intellectuals worldwide that it is not the plain murderous bullshit that it actually is.
Any fool can claim anything anywhere. I can claim that the Buckingham palace is mine as I pay UK taxes. But in reality it will never be mine.
Muslims are not only arrogant but utterly STUPID.
I agree with PastorMatt.
From what I read, the ring that Muhammad tied his flying horse to was the SAME RING that the OTHER PROPHETS had tied their steeds to.
SO: Why did Muslims decide to name this Wall after Muhammad's horse, when it was used by the Prophets? I guess since Muhammad touched it last, he gets to keep it, somehow..........
I have touched the wall since Mohammed - can I have it please???
Pretty please??
With sprinkles????
Because the Lord answered my prayer so he must look on the request with favour.
This is a painful subject for us, as you can imagine. Besides this groundless claim made by the PA, the PA-appointed mufti of Jerusalem, like his predecessor, Haj Amin el-Husseini, uses Friday Muslim prayers at the al-Aqsa mosque --on top of the Temple Mount-- to agitate against Jews. Nevertheless, EU diplomats have defended the rights of Muslims on the Temple Mount. I am sure that Western diplomats are hovering in the background, like a mother hen watching her brood, especially since the EU has been vocal lately about the Old City belonging to the Arabs.
They'd better start owning up to that what's actually theirs: terrorism, hatred, and stupidity.
It seems that Moshe Dayan's decision was unilateral and not discussed in the cabinet. Many people here think that Dayan made a very big mistake.
the PA seems to think by saying something over and over, it will become the truth.. enough stupid muslims to believe their own lies... what the heck no need for proof, just say it is, and it is!!
Posted by: Lulu at December 11, 2005 08:07 PM
Lulu:
The problem is that, since at least the late 1960s, this tactic has worked very well for the PA. The overwhelming concensus these days in the MSM, academe and among pop cultural celebs is that a bunch of European Jews came along and callously kicked an indigeneous "Arab" (and largely Muslim) population out of their dearly loved, lush and verdant ancestral home.
I have never understood why Israel ever allowed the Dome of the Rock to remain standing. Seems to me it should have been bulldozed years ago. To do so would be to pay the mohammedans a great tribute - to behave exactly as they would.
I just dont see why you people dont get it. Of course the Islam owns the wall. In reality Islam owns evertything. It all belongs to them.
In the beginning there was Allah. The first thing he did was create the Pen Of Destiny, who wrote everything that was going to happen on the Memorial Tablets. The Pen only wrote about muslims. So Adam was a muslim. So was Joseph, Moses, Jesus ect. Abraham, Ishmeal, all of them, all muslims. So of course the Pen wrote that the entire land where muslims are, belongs to them.
Just because the Jews were there several thousands of years previously, has no bearing on it. The wall is not all they are going to take (if they can get away with it), but whole countrys. Britain, France the US, ect and now Australia. They are going to keep up this hegemoney both peaceful and martial, untill someone breaks that damn Pen. It's starting to scribble incoherantly...
Anthony:
According to Daniel Pipes, had the Dome's fate had been left to the Turks at the time of the fall of the Ottoman Empire, it would have been destroyed instead of being left to fall under British control. Instead, the Turks' ally -- the Austrian army in the personage of a Jewish (wouldn't you just know it) captain -- physically intervened to prevent it from being blown up.
Well Elijah had a fiery chariot and horses, that beats Mo's one of a kind. And he's coming back !
Hey, I know this is a pretty wacky thought, but it just occurred to me …let’s say that within the next 50 years or so we start exploring space in a real concentrated effort to spread ourselves out and not have all of our ‘eggs in one basket’, so to speak. Do you think there may come a time when someone has to pass a law stating that no Muslims will ever be allowed in space? I mean, if they went to the moon or Mars or wherever with us (it’s inevitable, too, because if we can have them all throughout our government, then we can certainly have a few in NASA and even one on some flight into space, someday) wouldn’t they wish to impose Sharia there, too?
Funny, but I can almost imagine a future where the U.S. and other modern countries are doing stuff and growing and expanding and exploring …and the whole time there’s some damned towel-headed freak sticking right next to us like some monkey on our backs, bitching and moaning and complaining the whole way and touching stuff and saying “Mine! I touched it first for all of the Muslim brothers back on earth, so I’ve got dibs!” Hmm …have you ever seen a Muslim on Star Trek?
We can’t let it spread. We can’t let it get off of the earth! We need to destroy it before it spreads to other planets and then we have an entire galaxy living under Sharia law!!! Heck, that’s probably the reason that aliens don’t come down and land on the White House lawn …they fear these backwards @ss-faced barbarians will hitch a ride and come to their planet and f*ck things up REAL bad!
Isn’t it strange that all throughout history, weaker and less advanced civilizations always fell before more advanced civilizations, and yet here we are, a modern world with modern civilizations capable of some pretty amazing things, yet slowly we’re all being eaten up and destroyed by a lesser entity from 1400 years ago?????
RE: the wall is the place where Mohammed parked his horse, named Boraq, before ascending to heaven.
Sorry to disappoint them, but it didn't happen this way. Mohammed, the pedophilic terrorist and butcher "descending to hell".
The Quran also says Jesus is not the Son of God and that Jesus did not die on the cross, was not buried three days and was not resurrected from the dead. The Quran lies and is wrong there also.
learjet 0450: " Sorry to disappoint them, but it didn't happen this way. Mohammed, the pedophilic terrorist and butcher "descending to hell".
Yep....I have a real hard time seeing Mohammed the pedophilic, the terrorist, the polymagist, and the illiterate ascending anywhere upwards.
Isn’t it strange that all throughout history, weaker and less advanced civilizations always fell before more advanced civilizations, and yet here we are, a modern world with modern civilizations capable of some pretty amazing things, yet slowly we’re all being eaten up and destroyed by a lesser entity from 1400 years ago?????
And yet the converse is true as well, The roman empire fell to germanic tribes fleeing their homes for safety, Constantinople was eventually toppled as well by jihadi barbarians, etc. Numerous highly advanced civilizations have falled to cavemen with the will to see their visions enacted. At least the germanic tribes became enlightened, as opposed to the muslims, who have simply become less and less advanced, and become more and more parasitical. (yes I realise the advances in the muslim world were vastly the work of Dhimmi's living under islam's boot)
I think it was Catherine I was communicating with several weeks ago about Mormon missionaries leaving Venezuela, I haven't seen her posting recently (not that I've been on here a whole lot, as I've been swamped with work), but the church is sending non-North American missionaries to Venezuela, as I said before, because Americans are having a very difficult time getting and maintaining visas there, not because the effort needs to be pulled back until it's safe there. (although she was spot on with why it was getting to be so problematic)
Don't underestimate these guys. The Kaaba used to be a McDonald's.
So what does the arabic script say on the "Dome of the Rock"?
Don't leave us hanging...
JSLA --
I just attempted to provide here a reasonable summary of the article, but having looked it over, saw how unsatisfactory it was, and deleted it. I do not read German (graduate-school German, that has fallen into desuetude and never rose high in the first place, hardly counts). With dictionaries, imprecations and prayers both sent sky-ward, possibly I could slowly go through it, but for its contents I am relying on the careful explanations provided to me by Ibn Warraq, who knows it backwards and forwards.
As for Luxenberg's book on the "Syro-Aramaic Reading" of the early Qur'an, that book (now in a second, revised edition) can be read in German, or one can read in English extensive scholarly reviews that will supply the argument and its details. There was a meeting earlier this year at Notre Dame, devoted to Luxenberg. Some good scholars, enthusiastic but naturally guarded, delivered remarks. And there were others there as well, including Fred Donner, whose own work has never given any sign that he was willing to refuse to accept, to take issue with, to deviate from, the Received Standard Believer's Version of the Origins of the Qur'an, but who knows? Perhaps even Donner has decided the mixture as before just will not do, and he would like to leave something he can be proud of.
The Dome-of-the-Rock article depends upon precise philological detail. What do the inscriptions say, and what were they taken to mean by Muslims and then, of course, others who were in no position to offer a counter-interpretation, and what do they really mean? None of this can be conveyed properly or convincingly in a summary. But let's start with the Arabic for "the Blessed One" and work from there -- to whom might that epithet refer? I hope, and believe, that a translation of both Luxenberg's book, and the article in "Die dunklen Anfange," will be undertaken soon. If any serious scholar writes about the article, I will post something about it here.
Even some world-famous scholars, secure in their jobs, are wary in what they write about this matter. No names here, but perhaps you can guess. Some will not even allow certain of their own works to be republished, giving as an excuse that they are "not quite as certain" as they once were. Say, do you know how much the book "Hagarism" is now selling for? I'll leave it at that.
For many months at JW I have been dropping hints about this article. Now it is in print. But it remains, for now, only in German. Stay, you know, tuned.
Waterdragon,
the story about a Jewish captain in the Austro-Hungarian artillery refusing an order to bombard the Dome of the Rock as the Ottoman forces and their German & Austro-Hungarian allies were retreating from Jerusalem, comes from a book by Pierre van Paassen. Maybe Earth Could Be Fair. I think that van Paassen spoke to the captain years later.
That's probably where Pipes got it from.
JSLA,
I understand that a not insignificant portion of the writings consist of insults to Christians about God not being the Holy Trinity, not having a Son etc., Jesus not being resurrected from the dead because he did not die on the cross etc.
In light of the posts by Hugh, my "understanding" may be somewhat off the mark - to say the least.