This is in accord with Sharia provisions, based on Qur'an 4:92: "It is not for a believer to kill a believer unless (it be) by mistake. He who hath killed a believer by mistake must set free a believing slave, and pay the blood-money to the family of the slain, unless they remit it as a charity. If he (the victim) be of a people hostile unto you, and he is a believer, then (the penance is) to set free a believing slave. And if he cometh of a folk between whom and you there is a covenant, then the blood-money must be paid unto his folk and (also) a believing slave must be set free. And whoso hath not the wherewithal must fast two consecutive months. A penance from Allah. Allah is Knower, Wise."
This is, therefore, the face of Sharia, not "extreme" Sharia, but simple elaboration of Qur'anic dictates. This is the society the jihadists want to impose on the rest of us. "Family Needs SR3.5m Blood Money to Save 17-Year-Old," from Arab News, with thanks to Sr. Soph:
RIYADH, 19 December 2005 — Time is running out for Fawaz Muhammad. With a March execution deadline approaching for the 17-year-old Saudi boy, his family is calling on generous and good-hearted people in the Kingdom to help pool the SR3.5 million in blood money that would spare his life.“It was kid stuff, the sort of fights that occur after high school between boys. Nobody expected it to reach this. But this is God’s will,” Fawaz’s brother, Owayid, told Arab News.
The story began almost two years ago when Fawaz had just enrolled in the 10th grade at a local secondary school in the village of Al-Raqeeah in Al-Dawadmi Province. According to his family, Fawaz was an ordinary boy who was enjoying a healthy and prosperous life. However, a moment of rage and the determination to end a personal dispute put all that he had in jeopardy.
A personal argument to settle a score with his high-school buddy — who happened to be a relative living in the same neighborhood — ended in tragedy after a heated argument turned into a fistfight. Fawaz drew a knife, which landed in his relative’s chest — a place where, he claims, he did not aim.
Fawaz froze as he saw his friend bleeding. He never expected an argument to lead to this. In a moment between shock and regret, Fawaz attempted to save his friend’s life by taking him to hospital. The attempt was futile. The victim bled to death before doctors could do a thing. Guilt caused Fawaz to turn himself in to the local authorities and confess to his crime.
Local police then transferred the case to a religious court. In the presence of the victim’s mother and relatives, as well as Fawaz’s family, the court laid down its sentence: Death.
According to the court statement, the relatives of the deceased have agreed to spare Fawaz’s life on the condition that blood money is given by a March 2006 deadline. The other condition was that Fawaz be banished from the area should the blood money be collected.
The convicted murderer is currently being held at the Dar Al-Ahdath Juvenile Center in Riyadh.
l guess in islam money talks big time! what did the kid expect when he plunged the knife into the chest of a person? good thing he is a muslim, otheriwse no money could spare his life!
I find this so strange.
The "bloodmoney" seems to me to be simply a gateway for the wealthy to gain physical absolution for crimes rather like the buying of papal pardons in the past for both secular and spiritual crimes.
Tough luck if you aren't rich then.
Does the blood money also buy back the heavenly ticket?
Maybe some of the money poured into madrassas could come his way.
What is the bet that Christians actually contribute towards this also?
While Muslims have absoluely no charity with regards to nonMuslims, from memory I am not that certain that they are overgenerous with each other. Certainly they seem very eager to stone each other when given the chance so i dont like his chances of missing "Chop Chop" square.
Robert wrote "This is the society the jihadists want to impose on the rest of us."
And they've tried.
See: Blood money in Denmark
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/006916.php
The Imam said "the practice of paying blood money to the family of a deceased person was normal in Muslim societies."
Not sure what this stands for, exactly -- the primitiveness of Saudi Arabia, or the primitivenvess of the Saudis continuing to observe, in the hudud, every part of that old-time religion. Wergild was good enough for woad-painted inhabitants of the British Isles in their wild and woolly (but the mammoths were far to the east) pre-Boadicea days. And those primitives were not Muslims.
I just read your voting is not all they need post at Jihadwatch, and I am very much inclined to agree. One of they key differences between a prosperous society and a failed one is not the ballot box but the just rule of law. And I say "just" with a full measure of Eurocentric absolutism, a prejudice for square deals and honesty.
Yes, voting is a way of a maing a society more just. But look closely at the American model and one of the key components is the concept of justice in the bill of rights which ensures.
If the rich can buy their way out of trouble a sharia society is no more just than any other warlord society.
From Article:A penance from Allah. Allah is Knower, Wise."
Allah's wisdom is amazing, he really knows how to punish transgressors. And religious courts? A stroke of genius. No one can outdo Allah when it comes to crime and punishment. Blood money was one of Allah's greatest expressions of wisdom. The whole justice system works like a well oiled machine. Accidentally kill another muslim, pay the blood money and free a slave. Case dismissed. The only fly in this ointment that Allah, in all his wisdom, forgot about, was the freeing of a slave. This kid has no slaves to free, so he is dead meat regardless. The slaveless cant obey 4:92 by default. Only those rich enough to own slaves and pay exorbitant blood monies can obey 4:92. In the strictest sense, all non slave owning muslims are apostates, because they cant obey 4:92. The only true believers are rich, slave owning muslims.
Allah has seen to it...boy is he ever smart...
"The whole justice system works like a well oiled machine."
swami,
Whether intended or not, this is an excellent pun.
Re: "Fawaz drew a knife, which landed in his relative’s chest — a place where, he claims, he did not aim."
Yup, just happened to land in his chest. Where was he aiming with that knife? It seems the Saudis have learned at least one thing from the West, the culture of victimhood. Quite frankly, I don't give a damn.
Hugh
Wergild was a Saxon institution practised about 650 years later. Which does not change the point you make, that British society progressed. Saudi has not.
Where is Mike Farrell in all of this? And has Oprah weighed in on Fawaz Muhammad's case?
You guys are pontificating on this very serious subject without any emotional context. I'm emailing Sean Penn, John Cusack, and Tim Robbins to see about maybe a Fawaz Fundraiser to save this young Moslem from his innocent mistake.
Everybody makes mistakes.
I'm sorry - why is this a concern for those of us on the salutary side of the Enlightenment?
Yes, yes, it would be a Very Bad Thing if sharia were implemented here, and I understand that the reason most people read and post here is that JW and DW are invaluable resources in the struggle against the inrushing Fascist tide - and I don't mean to minimize the usefulness of news tidbits like this story.
But in SA, Islam and Sharia aren't going away in the foreseeable future. Let's posit that the anti-human animals who are attacking us fail to reestablish the Caliphate (again, not a foregone conclusion in my mind, but I'm an optimist.) They will still hold sway on their home ground, just as they do now.
This kind of thing happens dozens of times a day in their backward cultures and countries. It always will, unless they embrace the concept of human progress. I'd rather husband my energies to fight them here. Complaining that their self-made hellhole of a country is a self-made hellhole of a country may be satisfying, but I don't think it really addresses their depradations here.
Jesuit and Saudi love fest
From Total Catholic.com Saudi prince gives $20 million to Georgetown Muslim-Christian center
Jesuits and the Saudis...hmmmm.
Qur'an Surah 4:92 which specifies and sanctions blood money.
004.092
YUSUFALI: Never should a believer kill a believer; but (If it so happens) by mistake, (Compensation is due): If one (so) kills a believer, it is ordained that he should free a believing slave, and pay compensation to the deceased's family, unless they remit it freely. If the deceased belonged to a people at war with you, and he was a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (Is enough). If he belonged to a people with whom ye have treaty of Mutual alliance, compensation should be paid to his family, and a believing slave be freed. For those who find this beyond their means, (is prescribed) a fast for two months running: by way of repentance to Allah: for Allah hath all knowledge and all wisdom.
PICKTHAL: It is not for a believer to kill a believer unless (it be) by mistake. He who hath killed a believer by mistake must set free a believing slave, and pay the blood-money to the family of the slain, unless they remit it as a charity. If he (the victim) be of a people hostile unto you, and he is a believer, then (the penance is) to set free a believing slave. And if he cometh of a folk between whom and you there is a covenant, then the blood-money must be paid unto his folk and (also) a believing slave must be set free. And whoso hath not the wherewithal must fast two consecutive months. A penance from Allah. Allah is Knower, Wise.
SHAKIR: And it does not behoove a believer to kill a believer except by mistake, and whoever kills a believer by mistake, he should free a believing slave, and blood-money should be paid to his people unless they remit it as alms; but if he be from a tribe hostile to you and he is a believer, the freeing of a believing slave (suffices), and if he is from a tribe between whom and you there is a convenant, the blood-money should be paid to his people along with the freeing of a believing slave; but he who cannot find (a slave) should fast for two months successively: a penance from Allah, and Allah is Knowing, Wise.'
"Jesuits and the Saudis..."
-- from a posting above
Make that "John Esposito and the Saudis, and any other Arabs, Muslim or islamochristian, from whom money can be obtained.
Many Jesuits deplore what is going on at Esposito's center, and are disgusted with the craven thanks offered for this "gift" -- what's that line about "timeo danaos dona ferentes" which we all remember, don't we, from Georges Perec's bibliography that he included in his dazzling "Experimental Demonstratio of the Tomatotopic Orgnaization in the Soprano (Cantatrix sopranica L.)."
If memory serves, and my memory has been forced to adopt the same motto "ich dienst" as Prince Charles, that entry goes like this:
"Timeo, W., Danaos, I., & Dona-Ferentes, H. E W. Brain cutting and cooking. Arch. metaphys. endogen. Gastrom. 56, 98-105, 1971."
Talk about Trojan Horses. Talk about Greeks. Talk about Gifts.
But the Jesuits are no fools remember. Google the article on Islam by Professor James V. Schall -- also at Georgetown and, unlike Esposito, a Jesuit.
Whom do you prefer -- John Esposito, or James V. Schall? Which one do you think tells the most home truths about Islam? Which one would Christopher Dawson prefer? Josef Pieper? Pope Benedict XVI?
I have my own hunch.
Other posters have covered the fate of foolish Fawaz-I nean what was he doing with a knife anyway if he was only 'playing' or is this part of training to kill Infidels? Am more concerned with fate of slaves [am sure there are plenty] in
Saudi Arabia.Does any JWatcher have info about Slaves and are any Human Rights Group doing anything about it given that this country is among the most secretive & undemocratically controlled in the world?? Will only add that John
Esposito is another sickening example of a Dhimmi Westerner sucking at the Saudi Tit. IT IS TIME JOHNNY LAD WAS WEANED...
Provided the victim’s family agrees, a murderer can escape the death penalty by paying blood money. However no such escape from death penalty is given to adulterers and apostates. Most Muslims I asked cannot answer me. Those who are able, say that the reason is because Islam considers apostasy and adultery to be far worse crimes than murder.
However so far none have answer my question of where is the justice in allowing a murderer to escape punishment by paying blood money for taking a human life, but not allowing a thief to return the stolen goods and further pay compensation to escape the mandatory amputation of one of his/her limbs. This shows that Islam considers stolen goods to have more value than humans.
The author, Raid Qusti, is generally a little more rational than this.
Here, he seems to have forgotten the real victim. And Fawaz really was not at fault. The knife just jumped into his hand, then into his victim's chest.
Two more points:
First, he has learned that actions have consequences, a lesson many Saudis never learn.
Second,
/devil's advocate on
How is paying blood money any different from a rich person hiring a world class legal team? OJ Simpson comes to mind. At least this way, the victim's family gets something.
/devil's advocate off
One of the problems with blood money is that it is assessed on a steeply sliding scale. If, for example, he had killed a Bangladeshi, blood money probably would not have been more than 50,000 Saudi riyals - about $13,000 dollars.
Hugh:
Re: Professor James V. Schall
Thanks for the reference - I've just copied a few of his articles for later reading.
Necolei - Islamic jurisprudence is all mambo jumbo, it does not follow any accepted patterns of human enlightenment. Its all laid down by an illiterate Arab who heard voices!!!! in the 7th century. Why are we even surprised that murder is less then stealing a camel or having sex????????
Hugh,
This one? "When War Must Be the Answer"
Flinty-eyed realism on pacifism, Islam, and Jus Ad Bellum, well worth the read. This is the sort of Christianity I can support.
Two articles related to this topic:
Blood Money Is Now Big Business and Lawyer Pockets Blood Money, Leaves Convict to Die.
Hugh, Robert:
Here is the outrage of the day. The Liberal nomination for the riding of Mississauga-Erindale (suburban Toronto) has just been won by Omar Alghabra. Here is what happened:
"Toronto, Canada Monday, December 19, 2005 - On December 2, the Liberal candidate for Mississauga-Erindale, Omar Alghabra, made his victory speech after winning the nomination. In that speech, he reportedly exhorted his audience, "This is a victory for Islam! Islam won! Islam Won! ... Islamic power is extending into Canadian politics".
"Alghabra's victory speech was delivered to an audience of several hundred in the Coptic Christian Centre of the Church of the Virgin Mary and St. Athanasius in Mississauga."
David Ragheb, a member of the congregation, reported that following Alghabra's victory speech, Markham Councillor Khalid Osman took to the stage and declared, "We have the east, we have the west, and now we have Mississauga!" to cheers and applause from the audience. Ragheb also reported that Rogers Cable was present throughout and may have filmed the event. "A member of parliament is supposed to represent my concerns about taxes and roads in Mississauga, not promote an Islamic agenda," said Ragheb."
"Victor Fouad, a Coptic Christian, was disturbed to hear of such Islamist rhetoric from a Liberal who could easily become a Canadian parliamentarian. Mr. Fouad assumed that Paul Martin would likewise disapprove of such incitement by a Liberal candidate, and so wrote to the Prime Minister detailing what had happened. That message was ignored. The event took place over 2 weeks ago, and Paul Martin's silence since that time can only be interpreted as approval of Mr. Alghabra's rhetoric."
"I was surprised that Prime Minister Martin showed no interest in such a dangerous mixing of religion and politics," said Mr. Fouad. "Since he has said nothing about it and this candidate is still representing the Liberal Party of Canada, I have to assume that Alghabra has the endorsement of the Prime Minister."
Hat tip to Damian. Now imagine if a Christian, Hindu or Jewish candidate made the same remarks. BTW - it should come as no surprise that this is Carolyn Parrish's former riding.
http://canadiancoalition.com/forum/messages/12071.shtml
johnb,
Interesting development. You should submit this link to Robert so he may comment on it.
Jay,
You said that 'One of the problems with blood money is that it is assessed on a steeply sliding scale. If, for example, he had killed a Bangladeshi, blood money probably would not have been more than 50,000 Saudi riyals - about $13,000 dollars.'
Wikipedia has an article on blood money at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_money#Saudi_Arabia
'In Saudi Arabia, when a person has been killed or caused to die by another, the prescribed blood money rates are as follows:
* 100,000 riyals if the victim is a Muslim man
* 50,000 riyals if a Muslim woman
* 50,000 riyals if a Christian man
* 25,000 riyals if a Christian woman
* 6,666 riyals if a Hindu man
* 3,333 riyals if a Hindu woman.'
It seems the amount would depend on the religion of your hypothetical Bangladeshi. And I notice that Jews are not on the scale at all. I wonder why?
Beagle -- that's the one.
JohnB -- that must go up as an article. It had been received, but I will bring it to Robert's attention.
Curious that the celebration was held in a Coptic Church -- was this to give cover to the Muslim triumph, the triumph for Islam? What a horror it must be for Copts, who know perfectly well what Islam is all about, to leave Egypt for Canada, only to find that Muslims and Islam have followed them even there, and are now making triumphant noises. Brividi, for Copts, for Maronites, for Jews, for Hindus. Soon enough, for Frenchmen and British and Italians and Spanihs and Germans and Danes and Norwegians and Swedes. When will the Quebec government, when will the Canadian government, when will Canadians stop being so determined to distinguish themselves from the Colossus to their South that they will even endure self-inflicted wounds just to prove how unlike America they are, and stop being so oblivious to Muslim speeches, Muslim attitudes, Muslim atmospherics, like these, and try to understand what they mean now, and what they portend?
Aardvark,
From what some of my Saudi coworkers have said, most Bangladeshis in the Kingdom ARE Muslim. And since they are a lesser breed of Muslim, SR 50,000 is at the upper end of the scale. Based on Arab News reports, the average for a middle class Saudi male is up around SR 1,000,000.
I also am surprised this was held in a Coptic church. I am reasonably optimistic that if this situation is properly aired, the s__t will hit the fan. The response in the following CBC forum for this riding gives cause for hope as opinion is against Alghabra although he could coast to a victory on the coattails of the Liberal party itself. Compare Alghabra with the NDP candidate for the same riding, Dr. Rupinder Brar.
BTW - it's surprisingly easy for a candidate from a large special interest group, usually ethnically based, to capture a party nomination for a riding. The group rounds up as many people as they can find who have a pulse and have them take out party memberships (which are quite cheap and probably paid for by the interest group anyway) thereby swamping long time loyal party members.
http://forums.cbc.ca/ridings/2005/11/156.html
http://www.rupinderbrar.ca/
If this boy was a Christian and went before Christ with his crime, Jesus would forgive him and tell him to go and sin no more. Wow. Look at how far we've come on planet Earth in 2005.
Why are we even surprised that murder is less then stealing a camel or having sex????????
Posted by: faqi at December 19, 2005 03:04 PM
The most egregious "sin" in Islam is polytheism. Allah will forgive all else. In fact, Allah encourages muslims to commit rape, murder, genocide, grand larceny--you name it and Allah approves, as long as the victims aren't muslims. And even that designation is vague, since one sect considers another to be heretics, apostates or whatever. So Sunnis can steal from and murder Shi'as with impunity, and vice versa.
There is absolutely no morality in Islam. Murder is fine if you have the means to pay the blood money. If not, then you sacrifice your life for the one you took. The tribal instincts of these savages are perpetuated by the barbarity of sharia. There is no way muslims can ever fully integrate into the civilized world as long as sharia is practiced.
The hypocrites at the UN accuse the US of "violating human rights" but turn a blind eye to the barbarians in Saudi ARabia, and hold conferences on ways to address Islamophobia. Bush rejoined UNESCO, which Reagan ditched during his presidency. The NO Child Left Behind fiasco, the brainchild of none other than Ted Kennedy, was merely a smoke screen to facilitate UN intervention in our public schools. The UN's curricula and textbooks have already been distributed throughout America to prepare today's children to be "citizens of the world." Bush has taken an aloof public stance on the UN, but he is an active and enthusiatic participant in its insidious agenda. If all goes as planned, in less than five years Mexico, Canada, and the U.S. will have no internal borders. Mexican and Canadian nationals will be working in our Department of Homeland Security, an ominous and suspect mega-bureaucracy. This worries me much more than the Patriot Act. I don't relish the idea of combined police forces or a "North American community" but in the name of "security", it is imminent, thanks to the CFR. I think Congress and the civil liberty advocates should be actively opposing this insane plan to merge Mexico, the US, and Canada into one big country, but nobody even talks about it. We're about to have a North American "EU" foisted on us, with unfettered movement of people between countries. Won't it be grand when half of Mexico comes to the U.S., the half that's not already here?
.
Ragheb also reported that Rogers Cable was present throughout and may have filmed the event
From the Canadian story from Johnb above.
Were Rogers not the outfit who had their mobile phones cloned and used by jihadists as reported here over the weekend?