Trying to reduce hostility to the U.S. within the Kingdom. Yes, this will fix it. Look what a sojourn in the U.S. did for Sayyid Qutb. "Thousands of Scholarships Lift Saudi Enrollments in U.S.," from the New York Times, with thanks to Sr. Soph:
WASHINGTON, Dec. 17 - Urgently trying to improve relations with the United States, the Saudi Arabian government is promoting a scholarship program that has already more than doubled the number of new Saudi enrollments at American colleges and universities since last year.The program, aimed in part at reducing widespread hostility in the Saudi public toward the United States, has reversed a steady plunge in Saudi students here that started immediately after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.
The Saudi government offered 5,000 students full four-year scholarships, complete with living allowances. About two-thirds of the 5,000 students enrolled in American schools this fall, the State Department said, and the number would have been higher had the United States been able to process all the visa requests....
Yes, and everyone is a winner here, except the American public, now more vulnerable than ever from horrific attacks. The Arabists in the State Dept. will be happy to welcome the increase in Saudi students, with an eventual 20,000 to arrive, if my memory serves me correctly. The universities will be happy with the increase in out-of-state tuitions. The local bars will profit from new, regular customers. And, the terrorist cells will be pleased to see folks from back home.
more lunacy at the top! send them packing, or only accept women students for a starter. then they can go home and civilize the country!
Make sure there is no profiling now!
No humiliating searches for box-cutters or some terror manual like the Koran, or some bomb-making ingredients:
Peaceful Jihad only, of course! What are you, some kind of Islamophobe?
The Arab News recently has had several articles and letters to the editor about how time consuming it is for the Saudis to get student visas. They complain that the U.S. consulate in Jeddah is closed to Saudis because of "security concerns".
The U.S. embassy is in Riyadh. The two consulates are in Dhahran and Jeddah. Lest we forget, Saudi terrorists broke into the public area of the Jeddah consulate last December and killed six consulate employees.
Or maybe it was just a Zionist plot to make the Saudis look bad.
The rationale of this "exchange program" is to create understanding between the Saudis and the U.S. One cannot stress enough that the so-called understanding in the same light as "knowing your enemy's culture and the mindset and world view of the opposition." Few Americans would go to study in Saudi Arabia with the intention of taking over as this is not the world view of American youth. Saudi youth, on the other hand, have been nurtured on triumphalist ideology infused in mother's milk. Bringing Saudi students here gives them a window into our world and gives them the technological skills to carry out their plan, sheer lunacy.
Interesting since the majority of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi.
The coup de grace is that instead of coming here and at least potentially becoming enlightened to Western thinking, most of these students will have their worst impressions confirmed through the anti-Western impetus of the university experience.
Wasn't the Marriott situation in Washington, DC a couple of weeks ago exacerbated by their fear that if an anti-Islamic forum was held there, the Moslem students at Georgetown University would rise up and abuse Marriott guests and employees?
Good idea. Bring in reinforcements.
So we will be hosts to more wahabbi teachings as such were the 911 hijackers???
Since they hate the west so much why oh why do they all wish to come here???
Giving scholarships to study in the United States in any other circumstances would be laudable and beneficial to Americans, but not in this case; these scholarships put American lives and well being at serious risk.
There already exists in the United States and Canada a vast network of well financed Muslims Student Associations, and the majority of their members, at the very least, 1) harbor sympathies with the global jihad against the United States 2) possess a strong sense of belonging to the ummah. The vast, new influx of Saudi students will feed the MSAs across the country that already enable quick networking for like-minded Muslims living in all parts of the United States. Besides a general rise in the anti-Americanism, da'wa, disinformation, and other such happy-happy, nice-nice Islamic propaganda, the opportunities and potential for violent jihad (if not perpetrated by students themselves, by those directly or indirectly enabled from the resources these students bring into this country) substantially increases. This is very serious business and must be stopped.
Is there anyone out there who knows the relevant departments and the names of officials in the government who have approved this? Their identities should be made known and letters should be written about the dangers to which these people have exposed the American people. People should be made aware that if something does happen, another 9/11 or worse, there will be those who will publically raise issues of accountability, and we will name names.
Abopve someone describes Saudi complaints about how difficult it is, how terribly long a wait, it is to obtain visas. Oh my. And the bombing at the American consulate in Jeddah (Jiddah) is mentioned. That building is located at the intersection between Andaluz Street, and Palestine Street. Not a word has been written in the American press about the use of those telling placenames, all over the Arab world. Why, just the other day, in Baghdad -- or was it Basra -- something took place on "Andaluz" Street, and this was dutifully reported. But why was no notice taken of that "Andaluz Street" as a toponym, and what that signifies?
Why, an entire doctoral thesis could be written on Islamic toponyms -- keeping brightly alive for Muslim memories all the lands that once were conquered -- and if things pan out, will be conquered again, though not necessarily by military means.
Why, an entire doctoral thesis could be written on Islamic toponyms
Not peculiar to Islam, this toponymic triumphalism. This week I've been enjoying myself near Trafalgar Square and catching the tube from Waterloo with patriotic glee.
Once again the Bush administration turns a blind eye to it's friends the Saudis. Where is the State Department? Oh yeah, getting paid off by the Saudis.
The problem with these students may not, in the end, be that expressed above -- a fear of terrorists. It is that their mere presence will tend to corrupt and disrupt their campuses, their fellow students, those among whom they have come to live.
How? Well, they will be seen as a moneypot, or as a link to money, and that understanding will corrupt. There will be girls, girls taken advantage of, whether or not they are used and misused as playthings, as temporary solace, or actually married and then either left behind when those Saudis return home, or perhaps even worse, taken along to Saudi Arabia, there either to endure permanently, or temporarily, life as a Saudi wife (whether alone or with other wives), and of course there is always the child-kidnapping problem, for the product of a marriage between a Muslim and a non-Muslim must of course be the sole property of the Muslim. No other outcome, for Saudis, is tolerable.
Then there are the impoverished faculty members eager to pleace, eager to set up "programs with Saudi Arabia" -- and even more desirous, those Administrations with dollar signs in their eyes. And what will be the effect on the American students? In classes, with large numbers of Saudi Arabs who will, in large numbers, insensibly lower the standards of discussio of literary and historical matters (just think about a class in which Emily Dickinson, or Zora Neal Hurston, or George Eliot is being disccussed, or a class that might have on its syllabus Bellow and Malamud. Think about a class in European history that tries to tell something like the truth about Muslim conquests, or about the Crusades, or about Hitler and the Nazi concentration camps, and the treatment of Jews in Europe? And imagine a class in American history, discussing the Bill of Rights, or for that matter the issue of slavery (slavery, of course, is permanently permitted in Islam, because it was there at the beginning -- Muhammad and His Companions lived in a world in which slaves existed, and the Qur'an regulates slavery even as it recognizes, permanentl, the legitimacy of the institution, as a Saudi cleric recently reiterated in uncomromising terms; Moqtada al-Sadr called last year for capturing Infidel women and enslaving them). Their presence will tend to confuse and debase the level of debate.
And precisely to the extent that they are seen by other students as "fine fellows" -- in fact, if they turn out to be the usual Saudis, flinging money about on fast cars, women, liquor, and drugs, as well as all the gewgaws of American life, they will be seen by some, paradoxically, in the very decadence of their lives, to be reassuring about Islam. See, someAmericans will say. They aren't all fanatics. Look at how much that guy spends on marijuana or whiskey. Americans, like other Infidels, cannot quite believe that that sort of life can exist, side by side, with a devout belief in the superiority of Islam, the justice and sheer rightness for Islam to triumph. And those "decadent Western ways" (as they will be called) do not prevent the bearers of Islam to return not to the Faith (which they never abandoned, but simply did not quite follow when it got in the way of American pleasures -- any more than Al-Saud princes deny themselves the incredible orgiastic lives that some of them live, both when they are abroad, and even behind the high walls of their palaces, the only fitting word for their tens of thousands of residences). The Saudi students can at any point jettison their ways, return to the full Islam, the path of Allah, with what is now a renewed fanaticism, made all the fiercer by some inward desire to make amends for having temporarily succumbed to Western ways. Did I drink alcohol for four years in Portland? Well, all the more reason to donate money to Al Qaeda or other terrorists, or build a giant mosque or two in the middle of some American city.
Of course, this is the kind of thing that the American government, and the universities that will be receiving this tuition bonanza, are not thinking about. The colleges just want the money. And the government can tell itself -- well, what better way to create a cadre of people who "understand and admire America etcetera"? The problem is that a few will, of cours, come to "admire" some things in America, but those are likely to be the outward and visible things, a way of life, an easygoing attitude, freeedom from the mutawwa or religious police. But many will find it quite easy, have found it easy, to hypocritically enjoy that freedom, to cause moral and educational havoc, and yet to still not understand what it is about Islam that prevents or discourages the real freedoms in this country that matter (not the freedom to swill bear, race Ferraris, and engate in the kind of things the Saudi students have specialized in, but the freedom of unfettered inquiry and expression.
It is a bad bargain.
It is no bargain at all.
But at the very least, the suggestion made repeatedly here that the real cost of their presence should be reduced to financial form, and the Saudi government required to pay, beyond the tuition and board and room, sums that will reflect, to the extent such things can be estimated, the real cost of the presence of those students.
I suggested elsewhere that $1 million per student is, given the costs of monitoring (police, FBI, etcetera) , the costs of the effect of such students on fellow students, on others with whom or among whom they live, or whom they take advantage of, should they take advantage of, and the political and social costs derviing from the further spread, by Saudis as by other Muslim students on American campuses, of venomous views (which affect all Infidels in America, but some -- such as Jews and Hindus -- more immediately and venomously than others).
Decadence, Da'wa, pedagogic and moral disarray --one million per student is an underestimate. But let's start with that. Ten thousand Saudis, one million in extra associated expenses for American society, and thus ultimately borne by American taxpayers -- that's a mere $10 billion. Considering that almost every college student in America is in a sense heavily subsidized -- or at least colleges like to tell us that no one pays anything like the "real cost" of the eduation, $10 billion is nothing. It is about ten days of oil revenue -- or perhaps as much as two weeks.
Any Congressman who makes a speech about the points above will find overwhelming approval. No one, except perhaps James Baker and Scowcroft and their ilk, thinks of Saudi Arabia any more as a "staunch ally" or an "ally." Even those who cannot begin to understand the full malevolence of Islam toward Infidels has no trouble, in the manner of James Woolsey, of identifying "Wahhabi" Islam as a menace. One can only gain by insisting that the Saudi government pay a sum that correctly compensates our society, our taxpayers, for the real cost of this Saudi presence.
It won't happen. The American government is absurdly afraid of offending Saudi Arabia, failing to understand that the price of oil, and the availablity of oil, is an entirely economic decision, and has nothing to do with whether or not we do Saudi bidding.
But raise the issue. Speak out. On both sides of the aisle. Raise the issue of demanding that the government find ways to charge Saudi Arabia for the real costs of its students.
And everyone in the Pentagon and the State Department and Congress and the press and in homes should be racking brains trying to figure out how can we use up, soak up, take up, divert, the vast sums now pouring in, as they have for the past thirty years, and will continue to if nothing is done, to Saudi Arabia and the other Arab and Muslim oil states. Figure out ways to soak up the discretionary income that otherwise, inevitably, will be used to spread Islam, and to conduct Jihad through all of its many and malevolent instruments.
Start now. Think of six possible things before breakfast on New Year's Day. You can do it.
They call us Great Satan, Enemies of Islam,and Infedel sinners. With what face these shameless Arabs send their sons here for education?. They pose themselves as the most pious,most intelligent,and most religiously clean(sic) guys on the face of this earth, but in their hearts,they know their short commings, and the internal struggle with their 'inferiority complex,when they compare themseles with rest of the non-islamic world,which is progressing so rapidly.compared to Muslims.
I bet these 5000 Arab students ,with a heavy purse of Arab-oil dollers in their pockets ,are instructed to hook co students of'white' blue eyed ,blonds as their mates. Soudi Arabia will be delighted,and thrilled to see these 'New blue eyed daughter-in-laws!
The most common Islamic terror suspects in Europe,America,and Australia are :1. Islamic Students. 2. Muslim Taxi Drivers. 3. Muslim Imams. 4.Illegal residents,harboured by Muslims.5.Visitors from Islamic countries.
Americans are required to bear the cost both in lives and in treasure in pursuit of the Bush administration's war on "terror". There are, however, two groups that are never asked to make even the smallest sacrifice to help out. The first is the cheap labor lobby with their insistence on open borders and mass third world immigration. The other are Bush's blood sucking Saudi oil friends and their paid leeches in Washington. Not even the slightest inconvenience for these folks.
I believe that American flight schools, who have been in a bit of a depression since 911, will be very happy at the prospect of increased enrollment.
Go Hugh. Truth in every line,
a fine way to start my day.
Think of six possible things before breakfast on New Year's Day. You can do it.
In my experience all sorts of things seem possible on New Years' Eve and in the early hours, but on New Year's Day nothing is possible before lunchtime, and even then, only primitive functions.
Triumphalist toponyms aside, Hugh, and I've thought of dozens while I've been out and about in my immediate neighbourhood, even my own street, you are right - about Saudi students.
There is a temptation to think that Saudi students, or Muslims generally are good blokes because they drink and like football/baseball/whatever and, of course, chat up women. Generally a good rule of thumb is to ask them - and I have done this - whether they would be happy for their sister to be doing what they are doing. If the answer is yes, I'm open minded about them. Generally they turn out to be apostates. I know this from personal experience. If no - they've no business, if they are not citizens, being in the country. Simple.
In discussing Islam, women are often seen as a side issue. To me a Muslim's view of women is central to determining whether he is a true Muslim or just a nominal one. If he respects women - and I can tell easily whether he does or not - he is no Muslim.
I'll bet every one of the "students" will be male.
The question is...how many are going to flight school where they can learn to be a pilot but never need to be taught how to land the jet?
I'll bet every one of the "students" will be male.
Now there's a thought. Say that you'll take Saudi students, provided that they pay the reverse jizya ($1 million per student), and provided that 50% of them are female. Even 30%. After all, Islam says that both men and women should seek knowledge, we are told. (Knowledge of the Koran only, and the 'both men and women' thing is misleadingly emphasised for Western audiences.)
A fierce American hater,and Anti USA Preacer,and President of a Fundamentalist Islamic Organisation in Pakistan called "Jamaat-e-Islami"has sent his seven sons(!) to the States for their education!.His Organisation was active in the recent KFC bombings in Pakistan ,and the destruction of many churches of the much persecuted Pakistan Christians.USA educted Suicide bombers getting ready!!.
I hope someone has the bright idea to restrict these students from taking sensitive scientific courses such as nuclear engineering etc.
Yes to the suggestion immediately above: Limit severely, and monitor with vigilance, access to science courses for any Muslim or Arab (including "Christian" or "islamochristian" students). Certainly nothing in biology or physics or chemistry beyond the elementary courses. Otherwise nothing in the hard sciences beyond those freshman introductory courses, save possibly for botany and ichthyology. Psychology and sociology courses, however, to their hearts' content. Sociology of religion in particular.
Just nothing that might ever have any military use whatsoever -- biological, chemical, nuclear. Sorry if that prevents you from learning all sorts of innnocent things. We just can't take a chance. The whole situation, or rather the whole understanding of the situation, has changed, and will continue to change. And the changes are not in favor of those Muslms who wish to appropriate, or exploit, Western education for their own quite different purposes. No can do.
My undergrad school was crawling with students from the Middle East; since math was one of my majors, Middle Eastern men were often the majority in my class. Fortunately, higher mathematics isn't much of a social pursuit, so there wasn't a great deal of interaction necessary. (I heard horror stories from a female engineering student about Arab men in the class not trusting her work in group projects.)
But it amused me that even American-born Muslim girls I had gone to high school with couldn't stand the FOB's (Fresh Off the Boat), as they called them. I certainly wouldn't argue, as from what I saw in class, the Middle Eastern "FOB's" were all devoid of personality (reminding one of Ahmedinejad's lightless eyes), especially senses of humor!
All the more testament to the culture they're trying to export in the same imperialist package as their religion. Ugh.
I agree with the poster who said that the
Americans who are facilitating this should be
taken out and shot. OK, that's a bit too harsh.
tarring and feathering would be appropriate.
have we lost our minds?
Anyone who has occassion to come into contact with these cretins on a daily basis should make them feel as ill-at-ease as possible.
I have been very impressed with the great coverage of this by the mainstream media. Say what you will, but over 1/10th of 1 percent of the American public is now aware that Condi is bringing in Wahhabis by the thousands.
Go Condi! Go George! Kill them with the love!
"Anyone who has occassion to come into contact with these cretins on a daily basis should make them feel as ill-at-ease as possible"
Infidel33-- I'm sure I did a lot, just showing up, participating in class, and showing my female face and hair... as well as scandalous amounts of arm and elbow!
Someone's gotta do it. ;)