Suicide killer Reem Raiyshi with a rifle and a Qur'an
Last week in New York Oriana Fallaci said (according to my article about the event): "...the Qur’an is the Mein Kampf of this movement. The Qur’an demands the annihilation or subjugation of the other, and wants to substitute totalitarianism for democracy. Read it over, that Mein Kampf. In whatever version, you will find that all the evil that the sons of Allah commit against themselves and against others is in it."
This statement, as you may imagine, has caused considerable controversy. A few of the statements I have seen:
"Calling the Koran Mein Kampf is muddle headed and hysterical.....deserves a rebuttal.""There are moderate Moslems.....I lived among them in Turkey while my Bulgarian relatives went to concentration camps..."
"Tarring the whole religion is counterproductive.....Arab Moslems are terrorists in training but many non Arab Moslems are not jihadists....."
"If there are no moderate muslims, as Fallaci says, then we are doomed.....Is it not better to call them Islamofascists or Jihadists?"
"The Koran is 'Mein Kampf'.....oh come on...."
"In order to be a moderate Moslem does one have to renounce the Koran? I think that as usual, Oriana goes too far."
There is a muddle in these comments that needs sorting out. Fallaci said that there was no moderate Islam; she did not say that there were no moderate Muslims. This is a crucial distinction. As Ibn Warraq has said, "There may be moderate Muslims, but Islam itself is not moderate." In other words, there are manifestly peaceful people who have no intention of working by violent or subversive means to impose Sharia on the West, and who identify themselves as Muslims. This simple fact does not mitigate the other fact, that some high-profile moderates, such as Cleveland Imam Fawaz Damra, who signed the recent Fiqh Council of North America's fatwa against terrorism, turned out to be deceivers. No one can claim that all peaceful Muslims are deceivers without being able to look into the soul of each one -- although I know that some ignorant and intemperate writers on Islam have made just such a claim. And to say that the Qur'an is the Mein Kampf of the jihad movement is not to deny the reality that many, if not most, people who identify themselves as Muslims are primarily interested in living ordinary lives, making a living, providing for their families, etc.
How could it be that the Qur'an could be the Mein Kampf -- that is, the inspiration and guidebook, the motivating force -- of the jihad movement, and yet there could be peaceful Muslims? In the first place, because jihadists themselves routinely invoke it as the justification for their acts of violence, and as a means to recruit other Muslims into their movement. Anyone who keeps up with jihad news knows that I could have posted a hundred other photos similar to the one above, each depicting jihad terrorists holding the Qur'an. And any cursory glance at the statements of jihadists shows them to be filled with Qur'an quotes and appeals to other Muslims that they represent "pure Islam."
Nor are these jihadists misrepresenting, twisting, or hijacking what the Qur'an says. Indeed, they are fiercely literalistic, taking the book's many martial verses at face value. There are over a hundred verses in the Qur’an that exhort believers to wage jihad against unbelievers. “O Prophet! Strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell, an evil refuge indeed” (Sura 9:73). “Strive hard” in Arabic is jahidi, a verbal form of the noun jihad. This striving was to be on the battlefield: “When you meet the unbelievers in the battlefield, strike off their heads and, when you have laid them low, bind your captives firmly” (Qur’an 47:4). This is emphasized repeatedly: “O ye who believe! Fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him” (Qur’an 9:123).
This warfare was to be directed against both those who rejected Islam and those who professed to be Muslims but did not hold to the fullness of the faith: “Prophet, make war on the unbelievers and the hypocrites and deal rigorously with them. Hell shall be their home: an evil fate” (Qur’an 9:73). This warfare was only part of the larger spiritual conflict between Allah and Satan: “Those who believe fight in the cause of Allah, and those who reject faith fight in the cause of evil: so fight ye against the friends of Satan” (Qur’an 4:76). “Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them captive, and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is forgiving, merciful” (Qur’an 9:5). The “poor-due” in this verse is zakat, which is a central obligation for Muslims. Thus the verse is saying that if the “idolaters” become Muslims, leave them alone.
Jews and Christians were to be fought along with “idolaters”: “Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued” (Qur’an 9:29).
Jihad is the highest duty of Muslims: “Do ye make the giving of drink to pilgrims, or the maintenance of the Sacred Mosque, equal to the pious service of those who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and strive with might and main in the cause of Allah [jihad fi sabil Allah]? They are not comparable in the sight of Allah: and Allah guides not those who do wrong. Those who believe, and suffer exile and strive with might and main, in Allah’s cause [jihad fi sabil Allah], with their goods and their persons, have the highest rank in the sight of Allah: they are the people who will achieve salvation” (Qur’an 9:19-20). In Islamic theology, jihad fi sabil Allah refers specifically to taking up arms for Islam.
Paradise is guaranteed to those who “slay and are slain” for Allah: “Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth” (Qur’an 9:111).
One may attempt to spiritualize such verses, but there is no doubt from the historical record that Muhammad meant them literally. They are also backed up by numerous passages of Islamic tradition and law. Nonetheless, the fact that warfare against unbelievers is not a twisting of Islam, but the Islamic mainstream, and is repeatedly affirmed in the Qur’an, Hadith, example of Muhammad, and rulings of every school of Islamic jurisprudence, still does not make every Muslim a terrorist.
There are several principal reasons for this. One is that because the Qur’an is in difficult, classical Arabic, and must be read and recited during Muslim prayers in that language only, a surprisingly large number of those who identify themselves as Muslims actually have scant acquaintance with what it actually says. Although the media establishment continues to use the words “Muslim” and “Arab” as if they were synonymous, most Muslims worldwide today are not Arabs. Even modern Arabic, much less classical Qur’anic Arabic, is foreign to them. They often memorize the Qur’an by rote without any clear idea of what it actually says. A Pakistani Muslim once proudly told me that he had memorized large sections of the Qur’an, and planned one day to buy a translation so that he could find out exactly what it was saying. Such instances are common to a degree that may surprise most non-Muslims.
Other cultural factors have up until recent times also militated against Muslims, particularly in Eastern Europe and Central Asia, acting on or even knowing much about Islam’s actual teachings on how to deal with unbelievers. However, that is changing: in those areas and elsewhere around the world, Muslim hardliners, though not always financed by Saudi Arabia, have made deep inroads into peaceful Muslim communities by preaching violent Islam as the “pure Islam” and calling Muslims back to the full observance of their religion. And they are doing it by means of the Qur'an.
So is the Qur'an the Mein Kampf of the totalitarian, supremacist movement that is the global Islamic jihad? If we take seriously the words of the book itself and how they are used by jihadists, then it clearly is their inspiration and justification. Are we to ignore the jihadists' clear statements on this because they offend contemporary sensibilities? The challenge for genuinely peaceful Muslims today is to confront this fact, rather then deny it as Islamic apologists in the West so often do, and try to formulate strategies for a large-scale rejection of literalism in the Islamic community in America and worldwide, so that Muslims can coexist peacefully as equals with non-Muslims without the continuing recrudescence of this supremacist impulse.
Can it be done? The odds against it are prohibitive. But we do not do genuine Muslim reformers any favor whatsoever by denying that there is any work they need do with the Qur'an and Islamic tradition, or by pretending that the source of the problem is other than what it is.
In Mein Kampf Hitler laid out his intentions. The Koran lays out Muhammadans intentions to conquer the world. The Koran inspires the kooks in Iran to state over and over their intention to destroy Israel. Never trust someone who has said he wants to kill you.
Even if he says it just once and the Muslims say it repeatedly. The anti Jew venom from preachers in the Palestinian territories is amazing
Indeed "QUR'AN IS THE MEIN KAMPF OF JIHADIST MOVEMENT" referred to at every turn by Bin Ladin,Zaqawi,Abu Hamza,Omar Bakri etc - ad
infinitum.
Of course Dhimmi Western Leaders are going to continue in self denial, keeping their heads buried in the sand - until it explodes in their faces!
Oriana Fallaci is as right about this as she has been in her other wonderful writings on Islam. Congratulations Robert on your steadfast courage in exposing the truth : you will get the usual abuse and death threats but I suppose you are used to it...
I think, by now, everybody understands that there are indeed "moderate" muslims who do not wish to blow anyone up, marry 9 year olds, etc., but these moderates are completely inconsequential when it comes to combatting the extremists. They are the only ones who could truly change things by revolting against the jihadists, but refuse to do so. So what if there are moderates? Their silence makes the lame. Their silence makes them accomplices. They're only useful to the extremists, not to the rest of humanity....
Until the moderates are willing to to stand up to the terrorists among them, I wish they would shut up about how "moderate" they really are.
It would far more effective to convince the Western countries of the real intent found inside of the Koran. secoundly bringing about westernization of the middle east, aka.. democracy. the fear that Bin Laden has is that western influence would destroy his cult of islam.
The following plain instructions exist in the Qur'an.
1) To radically distinguish between those that believe and those that don't; to view the world of believers and non-believers in completely different terms.
2) To view those who do not believe morally, socially and politically deficient and inferior, worthy of subjugation by believers.
3) To view those who do not believe with suspicion, vigilance, lack of trust.
4) To react aggressively, forcefully, with violence if necessary, against those who do not believe if believers are in any way hindered, opposed or denounced.
5) To kill those who leave Islam and accept non-belief.
6) To work to impose the commands and laws that Allah imposes through the Prophet on all non-believers.
7) To follow strictly, completely, wholeheartedly, the instruction of the text or risk hellfire and an unimaginably painful fate.
And this is just the beginning, of course. Sura 4 and the unequal treatment of women, including spousal abuse. The obligation of jihad, fighting in the way of Allah, which almost always occurs in the context of battle; images of horrible slaughter, dismemberment, blood (sura 9 et alia); the glorification of dying in jihad, in the fight for Allah, the promise of eternal rewards for dying on the battlefield in the cause of Allah.
And, then, we turn to the Sunnah...
Fallaci did not create this problem. She only articulates in ways that only she can, the nature of the problem of Islam. This problem will not go away for non-believers, nor for Muslims who chose to either ignore or dance lightly around the plain instructions of the Qur'an and Sunnah. The problem will be with us as long as there are people who read these texts and take them seriously, that is, dead seriously.
Maybe the moderates should show some backbone, consider opening the gates of ijitihad themselves and openly denounce the violent underpinnings of
Islam...or we do it for them via ethical and very public challenges to their faith.
Given the fact that Muslims take skeptical inquiry into Islam as a strike against their collective honor, maybe they'll clean their own house rather than face the humiliation of non-Muslims tearing their faith apart at the seams.
Either infidels come in and grind the hell out of Mein Kampf...er Qur'an or Muslims can do it themselves.
Kicking, screaming and complaining from Muslims shouldn't matter now. Either they elevate Islam into a spirituality that can co-exist without subversive spread, violent expansion, taqiyya, da'wa and jihad...or bury this evil lie.
“…, still does not make every Muslim a terrorist.”
It does however make every Muslim a potential terrorist doesn’t it Mr. Spencer? Which routes us back to another question raised many times here; how do we tell the difference? And at what point, when time after time we see potential terrorists becomes a real terrorists, do we say enough is enough. Isn’t there a point where, as a collective, all Muslims must suffer the consequences of the actions of a “few?” Take for example, organized crime. Not all mobsters are murderers, but when the murderers begin to do things that hurts the collective, they are either taken out by their own or, hopefully, eventually arrested. What is the point in continually arresting murderers when, in actuality, it is the collective mob which, ideally, would be shut down. Why should Muslims have it any different? Because it’s called a religion? I’m sorry but this is confusing for me.
"No one can claim that all peaceful Muslims are deceivers without being able to look into the soul of each one -- although I know that some ignorant and intemperate writers on Islam have made just such a claim."
-- posted by Robert
I'll be "intermperate" and claim just that. If all these putative Moderate Moslems are not engaging in manipulative deception, they must in the least be engaging in self-deception.
Saying this makes me ignorant? I refer you to the myridad commandments in the Koran and Sunnah that demand hatred, segregation, racism, supremacism, misogyny, lying, terror, torture, pedophilia, theft, slavery, rape, antiChristianism, antisemitism, and murder.
Nothing moderate about these things.
PBUH PUBH PBUH PUBH PBUH PUBH PBUH PUBH PBUH PUBH PBUH PUBH PBUH PUBH
The argument that the unicorn exists -- oops, I meant to say Moderate Moslem -- is predicated on the long-term viability, and even desirability, of coexisting with Moslems who possess a stunningly distorted view of their "religion's" scripture, which if nothing else has clarity when it comes to Islam's goals.
This is either wishful thinking or disingenuous analysis. After all, how can a distorted view be reformed?
Moslems have exhibited a straight-line pattern for 1,390 years now. The thread that drew that line is Islamic scripture.
There are reasons for clinging to the delusion of the Moderate Moslem, none of them good. My guess is that all the various rationales for the Moderate Moslem Delusion is that non-Moslem humans are simplpy too optimistic to admit the worst.
In matters of life and death, it is everybody's -- whether a Moslem, an infidel Islamic Scholar, an MSM operator, or a politician -- it is everybody's moral responsiblity to deal with the truth and not self-deception.
*Of course* 100% of the adult Moslem population doesn't take up arms. The key is that the ones who don't provide the infrastructure and hate-energy needed to impel the Jihadists whom they silently support.
So long as so-called Moderate Moslems are tolerated, Islam will continue its expansion unabated. They above all others must be called to account. It's sad to seem them coddled in these pages.
Hello Mr Spencer or anybody on this site !
Do you know if it is possible to meet Oriana Fallaci ? I have been wishing to meet her since I read her book "The Rage and the Pride". Thank you very much for any advice.
Hitler commended Mohammed in Mien Kaumf. Mohammed is quoted as saying "kill every Jew" in the Hadith. The connection is not a loose one.
Excellent article! It deals accurately with the religion (as evidenced by the texts and historical practice) and the sociology of those who call themselves Muslims, today. And it helps sort out the confusion and fallacious superficialities found in the mainstream press.
Facing the hard facts is the only way to come to grips with the problem. In truth there is hope. I’ve linked to this article and suggest others read it.
JTF
when Muslims are confronted with such verses from the Quran that they know show the violent and discriminatory underbelly of Islam, their response is that the verses are quoted out of context.
Unfortunately the context gets somewhat lost when a suicide bomber, in the name of Jihad, blows himself up into million pieces with the aim of maximum human carnage.
Raven,
you are quite right there.
Had that discussion yesterday again on a forum where some muslima was throwing a tantrum how these things were quoted out of context.
What everybody forgets, and I hope the real arabic scholars will correct me if I am very much wrong here (my interest lies more with east-asian languages), the arabic used in the quran is one that does not resemble much of current day arabic dialects anymore. So you are stuck with quranic arabic and spoken arabic and the real scholars knowing old style arabic are very few. So this whole nonsensical debate how you can never translate the quran is tiring, not to mention the endless debate how they themselves know jack about real arabic to fully understand the text in itself.
Of course, most muslims are quite trigger happy when it comes to misquoting bible verses or even saying buddhism venerates idols, which, being a buddhist myself, makes for excellent training in patience.
Faced with being labeled un-Islamic, then shunned, burned, stoned, raped, or beheaded for not following the mandates of the Koran and the direction of sheik, mullah, Imam, indeed, most Muslims would prefer to do to non-believers that which would be done to them for not following the Koranic scripture. Thus, any Muslim could at any moment become intolerant and an abuser in the name of Allah. That doesn't necessarily mean terrorism; it means treating non-Muslims with contempt and disdain, violating human rights, diminishing, subjugating, and subduing.
If there are moderate muslims , lets hear them speak out loud and clear againt Osama bin Laden and all terror acts.
Were there moderate Nazis?
Can there be Moderate Muslims who read the Koran, the Hadiths and follow the teachings of their prophet? There in lies the problem of Islam one cannot be moderate if one follows Islam!!!
"The Koran is the Mein Kampf of Islam"
"The Koran is like Mein Kampf"
"Muslims are like Nazis"
All of those statements ring true to me.
All of these well heeled folks might not like it, but it's true.
All the bloodshed in the Arab world is promoted in the Koran. It wasn't a problem when the Muslim world was poor and Christendom was on the rise. Since the petrodollar, Islam has new confidence and is now making everyone miserable.
BTW - Orianna Fallaci is desperately ill with cancer and says in public appearances that she won't be with us much longer. I'm sure most of us hate to lose her. She has been an important voice of sanity.
"Take for example, organized crime. Not all mobsters are murderers...."
But not all Italians are mobsters. Not even all Sicilians.
And the Mein Kampf of the killer-Zombie movement as well. Needless to say, all who thoroughly observe the Qur'an's 'teachings' will end up having abandoned all aspects of their identity as human beings and become walking killing machines.
Diabolical.
Deliver us from Islam. Amen .
Too bad there is no "moderate" Qur'an to go along with "moderate Islam"!
Too bad there is no "moderate" Qur'an to go along with "moderate Islam"!
Posted by: pythagoras at December 6, 2005 05:02 PM
OH but the Russians made one not that it helpped them at all??
After all this is the 2nd swimming pool they have lost?? I think Iran is just sending islamic terrorist to kill Russians??
Look at what happened today in Iran reporters killed said a plane hit a building but i saw no plane??
And how many of theose Reporters were Russian??
Funny how you saw no woman in any of the video??
SAD SAD SAD??
and we can't forget DW
May 17, 2004 Russian province bans Qur'an
Suicide bombers Asif Hanif and Omar Khan Sharif pose with the Qur'an
What's in the Dag Bag? Not the Qur'an: Dagestan has banned the Russian version of the book of peace. There was a similar initiative to ban the Qur'an in Calcutta in the 1960s, on the grounds that it was an incitement to violence. The great Indian scholar Sita Ram Goel wrote a classic book about it, The Calcutta Quran Petition.
From IslamOnline, with thanks to Mentat:
DAGESTAN, May 17 (IslamOnline.net) - The religious administration of the Muslims of Dagestan, a republic of the Russian Federation, has decided to ban circulation of the Russian versions of the holy Qur'an as well as a number of Islamic books published in Russian, under the pretext of "fighting terrorist and fanatic ideas" these books are alleged to promote.
In a statement, a copy of which was obtained by IslamOnline.net Sunday May 16, the religious administration of the Muslims in Dagestan said that it has decided to ban all Russian versions of the holy Qur'an and books of prophetic Sunna (Tradition) as well as some Islamic books that are available in different parts of the Russian Federation .
It is worth noting that versions of the Qur'an have only been previously banned in Dagestan during the Communist regime in Russia between 1923 and 1991.
In its statement published also in al-Salam monthly newspaper, the religious administration reiterated that the decision was due to its keenness on "fighting terrorist and fanatic ideas," in reference to the Wahabbi beliefs adopted by several Islamic schools and movements in Dagestan.
Dagestan Wahabbis call for setting up an Islamic State. They are supporters of Chechen fighters in the war currently underway against the Russian troops.
According to a 2002 report made by the research center of the governmental Dagestan University, Wahabbi followers in Dagestan represent 3% of the total Muslim population, who, in turn, represent 84% of the two-million total population of Dagestan.
Wahabbi movements appeared in Dagestan between 1980-1985. The "United Islamic Socialist Party," led by Ahmed Qadhi Ahtayev is one of the greatest Wahabbi movements and it has several offices in south Dagestan .
The number of religious schools teaching Wahabbi ideas are 14, including two in the Dagestani capital "Makhg el-Qalaa."
UPDATE: Some people have commented well here on the fact that only the Russian version was banned. I respectfully disagree that this is a move toward Wahhabism, although that may indeed turn out to be the case. I tend to think that restriction of Russian editions in a place like Dagestan will only decrease ready understanding of the text — and rapid dissemination of the text's message. Few Muslims there can be as fluent in Arabic as they would be in a place where they speak it every day — although modern spoken Arabic differs considerably from Qur'anic Arabic in any case. Still and all, although time will tell about this measure, it is absolutely correct that it isn't enough if its intention is to cut off violent fanaticism at its roots.
Posted at May 17, 2004 11:03 AM
OF COURSE THIS DID NOT SOP ISLAMIC WOMEN FROM BLOWIN UP THEIR PLANE'S OR ISLAMIC MEN AND WOMEN FROM BLOWEN UP A SCHOOL WITH CHILDREN IT IT??
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE WORLDS EYES TO THEIR THREAT LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECEIVED BY THEM AMEN
PS
FOR THOSE WHO DON'T KNOW ME I AINT YELLING!!!
At least Hitler didn't calim he was divinely influenced by an angel who squeezed him until he recited "Mein Kampf". Compared to Mohammed, Hitler was a class act.
Either I’m missing your point or you’re calling me a racist Godefroi de Boulogne. My reference to mobsters was “criminals.” I said nothing, nor implied nothing about Italians or Sicilians. You’re the one making that connection, not me, but you can think what you like.
But not all Italians are mobsters. Not even all Sicilians.
Posted by: Godefroi de Boulogne at December 6, 2005 05:00 PM
Have you even lived in Italy???
and if so did you ever ck your utility bills??
MA Io amo Italia!!!
Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM OPEN THE WORLDS EYES TO THEIR THREAT AMEN
PS
Remember France was burning??
http://media.putfile.com/French-riots
But the French said they weren't islamic terrorist LOOKS THAT WAY TO ME!!!
Of Course Oriana Fallaci is right, she is the voice of the politically incorrect.
All Muslims want the same thing - Sharia. They just disagree as to how to get there.
Which is why Islam should not be encouraged, maybe even tolerated in the West.
The "moderates" go kicking and screaming to condem their fellow Jihadi Muslims. Even if they do condem, so what?!! The Koran says you can lie to an infidel if ye fear persecution. A Muslim's word to me, an infidel, cannot be trusted. It is worthless.
The USA, the worlds greatest superpower yet (China is catching you!) cannot even get Bin Laden (may pigs piss be upon him). Why? I'll tell you why, it's the same reason that M15/London police didn't see the 7/7 bombers comming - the "moderates" protected them through their silence (after all - the target was just infidels), and that a "moderate" can become a "terrorist" (aka a TRUE Muslim in Mo's eyes) in a blink of an eye. Not even the USSR could have done such a good job at placing "sleeper cells" within the West as Islam has done.
You can pick a fanatic retard everytime. You will always know a jihadi/shaheed.
Look into their eyes you will notice that dull vacant look which means everything inside the head has been washed nice and clean. Also check for Holy Quran(aka Holy Toilet Paper) AK 47 locked and loaded, and green bandana with islamic jibberish about allah and heaven at their side. That my friends is called being a "good muslim". Sweet aren't they?
So i guess by the time she had this picture taken in her feeble mind she believed that mohamed did not: rape a little girl and call her his wife, massacre thousands of men women and children, robbed and pillaged, desecrated hundreds of synagogues and churches. Instead she beleived that women are seen as equal in islam AND that mohamed(shaitan)was a nice misunderstood guy...kinda like Jim Jones or David Koresh.
I firmly beleive that she was justified in blowing herself to Mohamed(shaitan). That is ABSOLUTELY FINE by me. I believe many more muslims shouldcome forward and be brave enough and DO IT...my only caveat would be that they should do it on a ranch in the boonies with a dozen other muslims in tow instead of innocent people.
Oh well, maybe next time allah will come down with the angel Jabreel fire back a few tequilas and pull the cord a little too early.
WAITER!!! WHERE ARE MY CRUISE MISSLES!?!?!?!...LOL
"thou shalt not kill" - Lord Lucan - it's actually "Thou shall not MURDER" - there is a difference. Evil should not be tolerated, and if it threatens you - it should be fought.
Sense of Humour? I heard another good Muslim joke the other day, and the above picture made me remember it:
"To Muslim girls are walking down the streets of London with back packs on. One Muslim girl turns and looks at the other and says, "does my bomb look big in this backpak?"
Butterfly said: "It does however make every Muslim a potential terrorist doesn’t it Mr. Spencer? "
I think we'd all have to realize that Mr Spencer runs a high-profile anti-Islamic site.
Anti-CAIR is being sued and CAIR makes no bones about suing the crap out of anyone that speaks the truth about Islam.
Mr Spencer probably agrees with everything we're all saying but simply cannot admit to such without exposing himself to deadly liability.
Would we really like to see this site shut down?
Only the blindly politically correct believe that there is "good" Islam. Only the intentionally obtuse claim that moderate muslims exist and that we shouldn't allow the actions of a few to "hijack" Islam.
Islam has murdered its way forward for 1400 years now. How in the world do we stop a billion muslims from "hijacking" Islam from the 12 muslim moderates? Ooops! There's 11 now.
The ONLY people talking about "moderate" muslims are INFIDELS. They don't exist. Islam is a political murder-cult. What we need are a crop of politicians that will admit to such and root out Islam from the west.
Islam cannot co-exist with American secularism, and we cannot allow Islam to destroy the democracy that gives us our freedoms.
An Islamic upbringing is probably the most difficult thing to overcome. I worked in the same office as a Moroccan programmer back in 2001. When the WTC came down, we turned on the office TV and he shouted "Yeah, man!" I don't think another person spoke to him again and eventually he quit.
Even non-violent Muslims tacitly agree with religious murder. Many of us were raised Christian or Jewish and have this internal programming. We don't want to offend God by being a rotten person. The Muslim doesn't want to offend Allah by being too friendly to infidels, or by rejecting jihad.
It's really a horrible trap. Muslims don't want to offend God anymore than we do (if we are religious). The problem is that the god of the Muslim is a vengeful monster urging his followers to bondage and murder.
Tragic for all of us, but even the Muslim is a victim.
Mussolini,
You are quite right. My apologies Mr. Spencer. I will refrain from using your name directly in any future posts. Thank you Mussolini.
The Moslems are not bad people! They are misunderstood. They are merely people who have been intensely programmed from birth to live by blind faith. All the terrorism we have seen executed on the world stage is sanctioned and commanded by God, and these commands are beyond dispute, being very clearly written in the Koran. Blind obedience is required by this God, of the followers of this God, who says He is the one and only God, and all who will not obey him will suffer forever in torments beyond description. These people are not our enemy! The only enemy is the Koran which must be fought against in order to set these poor innocent people free. But the trouble is that the Koran commands those who fear God's wrath, to murder anybody who will speak out against this bible of lies and murderers. But, the only way to stop terrorism is to tear down the edifice of terror that is the esteem and respect that this bible commands because of the fear of murder happening to anybody who should dare point out the extreme evilness of this book. Yet there is no other way to put an end to Islamic terrorism and murder. The foundation of Islamic terrorism is the Koran, tear down this most powerful evil book and Islamic murder and insanity will stop. Ask those who have converted Moslems at great risk to their lives and they will tell you that all Moslems will quickly convert to Christianity, jumping at the chance to be free of this religion based on and supported by sheer Horror. Who will make the first move and begin to tell the truth about the abomination of desolation that the Koran is, and therefore begin to set one billion innocent people free of extreme thought control operating by the mechanisms of Murder and the threat of Murder. If it is the way I have said it is in this letter, why is anyone wasting time and energy talking all around the real and only cause of Islamic worldwide terror and mass murder, instead of telling it like it really is? There is only one answer: They, like the poor Moslem people themselves are very afraid of having themselves and their friends and families Murdered in horrible ways as commanded by Allah from the launching pad of the Powerful and Fearful Koran. So, why are we Christians any different than the Moslems, and, indeed, the rest of the terrified world? Yours, in Christ, Hal Barton P.S. No use killing or converting a suicide bomber, Like the mythical Hydra, The Mighty Koran will just grow back 4 more suicide bomber! It's the Koran - solo Koran!!
While you remarks are true, Hal...
... you can't kill a book.
Dear Mussolini, Yes you can! The Koran is the most assailable book in the world - full of contadictions and faily easy to trace plagerisms - reality is on our side, not their's. There is sits, make of paper, the match of logic is ready to burn it to nothing, however, if you talk against it successfully you will be on the murderer's list. A lot of people could do it! Salmon Ruskie just did it a little tiny bit, and his life was a horrified life, his children and family in danger - could happen to any of us - that is why the koran is still stronger than any man, and we all fear Allah more than any other God! You should perhaps say not that you can't kill a book, but that you dare not kill that book that calls itself the Koran and in its pages it threatens to kill you if you dare impugn its Mighty Power. I am terrified of it!
There were moderate, peaceful Nazis who read Mein Kampf and never hurt anyone (Oskar Schindler comes to mind). David Duke's probably never assaulted or killed anyone, either. That still doesn't put Mein Kampf in a favorable light.
The trick for moderate Muslims has always been to prevent their radical brethren from turning their beloved Quran into a manifesto for violence. So far, they haven't fared very well. Instead of trying to fix the problems within their ummah, they too often turn to non-Muslims and ask them to "just think differently" about their religion. Like an owner of a pit bull trying to convince his just-mauled neighbor that his dog is really a "pet of peace".
One difference between Mein Kampf and the Quran is that there is no country in the world where desecrating Mein Kampf would be a felony or the cause of riots/protests among its admirers around the world.
mein kampf my left foot. What these people have always intended to do would make the holocost look small. all these brain baked people want the same thing. their version of peace on earth. through the sword, bullet, nuke, etc. there is NO room for them. try traveling in the mid-east. you cant sleep for the dip dunk on the loud speaker calling the "faithful" to prayer. somwthing is dead wrong with these people. I will always refer to their religon as that of satan!
Best I could probably do, Hal, is buy a Koran and take a picture of it draped in raw bacon to put on my site.
But, buying one is probably the smartest thing I could do. Been relying on the online versions and I would rather have something I could read from cover to cover. ... and take rude pictures of...
My forefathers in this country fought for ideals. Washington led brave men to their deaths over not murder or rape or WMDs or Halliburton, but over TAXES. The civil war, the bloodiest war we ever fought, over the relationship between the state governments and the federal.
Nowadays, Americans are too wimpy to even think of fighting for anything unless someone gets killed, and even then would rather excuse the deaths away. We need to recover our American pith. We didn't defeat the nazis by welcoming them into our country. Neither the British, the Japanese, the commies, or any other enemy of the time. The Barbary muslims were not defeated by "respecting" them!
Ham on the book will just give it meat, instead we need an intellectual approach, For example, educated rumor has it that the Koran has 'evolved' over the years and that when ever an old Koran sufaces, it is quickly beheaded befor someone should read the old version which rumor has it (I'm too frightened to say it dirctly) might be in some degree of disagreement whith the modern koran. But, if we ask hugh or Robert to tell us what is wrong with the Koran, well, they might not want to be too spcific because it is a tireing thing to have to be on the alert all the time. But, some brave soul out there might concider this tack. It would not take much, once a book has be successfully discredited it's supporting movement has lost it's head and will soon succum. Some on on this thread said, "too bad there isn't a moderate Koran to go with the moderate moselem. You might be moderate now but when your reading comprehension improves, you cannot help but see that Ben laden is the bravest and most holy man of the last 300years !!
Mussolini observes:
"...you can't kill a book."
The success of Robert's latest is proof of that.
You can, however, kill a religion. Mohammad demonstrated how it's done:
"Muhammad's first act upon entering the city was the announcement of a general amnesty. Next, Muhammad and his associates entered the Kaabah (the holy Mosque) and cleared it from all the idols.
Mohammad invaded Mecca, entered the Kaaba, and cleared it of idols. There is a profound strategic lesson here for the perspicacious reader. The way to victory in war is not by nibbling at the fingers and toes of one's foe, but -- Mo knows -- to strike off its head.
The internet -- where philosophers of paradox discourse with fascist icons.
Agreed Zeno. It wouldn't even require boots on the ground unless we wanted some propaganda shots.
The whole decapitation could occur with one sortie from our floating cigars.
"Inactivity is death." - Benito Mussolini
Robert
I am just wondering if the Netayna bombing prompted you to make your comment.The Qur'an: the Mein Kampf of the jihadist movement?and use the image Suicide killer Reem Raiyshi with a rifle and a Qur'an (ISLAMS MIEN KAMPF)?
I was making a comment about loosers last night where I also included the above mentioned looser,as a follow up to my comment to the Netayna bombing,
http://www.fomi.nu/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1627&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=195
By the way I hope you dont mind to much that I titled this thread Ilustrated P.I.G.to Islam.My motive for doing so,is it enables me to show images that are not found in the MSM.
I would like to thank you and you staff for not closing this site,as you where considering a short while back
Many thanx
Regards
Shiva
come on you guys, we have plenty of floating cigars, they are floating right now, and we have already won without putting boots on the ground,but for how long? We are losing the war, these barbarians are winning hands down. They will keep on winning until someone brave stands up and distroys their launching pad which is the mighty Koran, the Book that is so veverated by Christians that some day it will stand along side their Bible as a near equal. Mixed marriages will become comon and insecure women will be come suicide bombers. What drives them except for the all mighty Koran. There is no defence against the truely mind washed except compelling evidence that life is worth concideration and not comtempt.
Well, the main modus operendi for hard headed realists today seems to be the great free market, we will do anything for it! It has benefited so many of us who were able to get much richer and all we started with was our little old trust funds we got from the dear old family. However,.. Well, certain political types can not tell the truth about a certain religion because the free market requires that all extremely large groups of people get along with each other. Unfortunately, one of the groups is inherently violently opposed to all the other groups, and, frightenly, it is an amazingly large group! I'm talking about the people who worship the Koran.
Everyone in the world would have plenty of eggs to eat now and forever, except that the free market is dead set against blocking the Raccoon from living in the chicken pen. But, if you want eggs, it has to be done. The Koran has to be exposed for the social cancer that it is. There is no other way for the free market to survive. We don't need war, we need some people willing to be killed by the mandate of murder that is in the Koran, to stand up and point out that that book is poisoning human minds and making minds that commit suicide and mass murder. But we hate to do that. We would just rather send young people off to war for years and years. Anything is better than talking about it. Yours,Bookburner.
I wish I could put this on every thread and have it tatooed on my forehead: "do you think that you are genetically different than the poor people who have been deceived by the Koran? If you had beed subject to the brain washing techniques of the Koran everyday of childhood - you know you and your children would be no different! You would be a suicide bomber same as anybody! Never mind them! You are all getting suckered off - chasing mentally ill humans instead of the real problem! Whether one or a thousand suicide bombers get free or goes to the 70 virgins every 24 hours (sex with blood, what could be better?), doesnt matter a wit because that many headed Hydra, the Koran, will grow 5 suicide bombers while you are digging the virgin hoppers grave! Instead, we need to fight the Koran, It's not people! It's the Koran stupid!!!
lord lucan,
Maybe an even better caption would be: Does my bomb look big in this?
sheik, hal,
I agree with both of you, and I'm not simply being diplomatic.
Clearly, the Koran is an incitement to every kind of war against non-Muslims, and needs to be exposed for what it is. If the vast majority of non-Muslims, and particularly our leaders, knew what the Islamic doctrines were all about, we would be much further ahead in the battle.
At the same time, the Koran would be merely a dusty book of grizzly pronouncements on the shelf if Islamist despots and propagandists, clerics, teachers, and brainwashed parents in turn did not try to brainwash each successive generation of children. The young people learn to hate, and have their hate directed (e.g., at Jews, Hindus, the U.S., the west, Christians, etc.) before they have read the Koran. These people grow up to be, if not terrorists, fans and moral supporters of the terrorists. The terrorists thrive on that kind of social support.
Shortly after 9/11, our leaders talked about how our response was going to be a war fought on multiple fronts. There would be actual battles, but there would also be attempts to restrict terrorist's financing, to put strong pressure on countries that teach jihad ideology in schools, target radical clerics, to deport radical Islamists, to increase security, etc. In this war, I would say that our governments have failed in dealing with the ideology (Islamic doctrine) and those who disseminate it and perpetuate it. (They also failed to tackle the issue of large-scale Islamist-state-funded atrocities, which continue).
Given that we are (mostly) democratic countries, we need the weight of a strong majority of public opinion in favour of our efforts to defeat Islamism. We are held back in dealing with the problem due to the inertia of ignorance in our societies. This ignorance (coupled the prejudices of misplaced PC mentality) impacts on every decision we might make in any aspect of the war. We won't get far without the majority support. To get this majority of support, we've got to defeat and expose publicly the propagandists (Islamic apologists and clerics) while demolishing their hate-filled doctrine. When the doctrine has been exposed in all its ugliness to the vast majority of people, the propagandists will have no credibility and will be rendered ineffective.
asmodai,
Re: the usual claims, by Islamic apologists, about context and translation.
Translation
1. Numerous translations are in pretty high agreement on the main points. In addition, on content, there is internal consistency within the Koran because it's so repetitious. Also, there is ideological consistency between the Koran, Hadith, and Sira, i.e., Mohammad is a terrorist thug hell-bent on imperialistic pursuits in each.
2. According to Ali Sina and others, the Arabic version is actually worse; he characterized reading the Koran in Arabic as like meeting Satan face-to-face (and Sina is an atheist!). No doubt, there has been some attempts to make the Koran seem kinder and gentler (Yusufali is an example), but even these are still convey the same messages of imperialism and intolerance.
Context
1. Apologists use this "out-of-context" complaint whenever they get into trouble, but they commit worse crimes in readily in quoting the Koran's so-called goody verses. In context, the goody verses are only good for strict believing Muslims. There are, to my knowledge, no verses in the Koran that are good for non-Muslims and casual/nominal Muslims, but there are hundreds of bad ones.
2. Apologists often fail to realize that bringing in further contextual information means bringing in the gory details, from the Hadith and Sira, about the circumstances in which a verse was revealed. And when such ugly details are brought into the discussion, then they suddenly start questioning the validity of the Hadiths, etc.
3. A common apologist complaint is that the harsh verses in the Koran are made in reference to battles or prospective battles. But apologists fail to account for why Mohammad and his men are involved in so many battles in the first place. We know that the vast majority of these battles were what outsiders would call wars of aggression. Indeed, several of the "battles" were actually ambushes and raids led out by Mohammad.
4. Apologists also fail to acknowledge that, for some verses, there is really no realistic context that would ever justify the ruling laid down by the verse. For example, in what context is it ever appopriate to condemn poets and critics to a painful doom? In what context is wife-beating a morally acceptable way to make wives "obedient"? In what realistic circumstances could it ever be morally sensible to claim that disbelief or ascribing partners to Allah were worse crimes than than killing a believing Muslim (the most valuable person)?
5. Apologists fail to acknowledge the overall goal of Islam, which is to conquer all religions, no matter how averse this may be to the non-Muslims, as stated clearly in the Koran multiple times. This goal subsumes all of the contexts in the Koran; it explains the early Muslims' treaty-making and treaty-breaking; it explains their wars of aggression and expansion; it explains their intolerance; it explains their use of terror and assassinations as political and psychological tools; it helps explain why Mohammad wanted to physically and socially segregate Muslims from Non-Muslims, and so on. This overriding goal is a larger "context" that contains all of the smaller contexts in the Koran.
...on the "context issue" I would just add that the Koran is supposed to contain the timeless principles by which believers can guide themselves through varying life circumstances. To some extent, then, there must be some allowance for the applied circumstance to vary from the example circumstance in the Koran, otherwise the whole text would be time-locked in the 7th century Arabic-Bedouin culture. (If only the aoplogists would take their appeals to context to their logical conclusion).
Mein Kampf and the Koran,
I have to concur, again, on Fallaci's comparison. There are all kinds of examples in the Koran and Hadiths pertaining to violent imperialism, totalitarianism, etc., and there are specific proposals for the expulsion and extermination of the Jews.
There is also the supremacist component. The Koran and Sunnah have this also, in multiple forms. Supremacy of (a) strict Muslims, (b) males, and (c) Arabic ethnicity. In regards to (c), here is an example, from Abul Kasem who writes at faithfreedom:
"Why should we consider Islam as Arab/Bedouin imperialism? Here is the answer.
You see, the ultimate goal of the Islamists is the creation of a Pan Islamic world, which must be ruled by a caliph (the Islamists call it the Khilafat movement) who will be responsible to enforce Islamic laws (Sharia) globally. So, what are the requirements to be a caliph?—you might ask. According to Islamic law, (ref: Reliance of the Traveler, published by Amana Publications, Bettsville , Maryland , 1999, pp.640-642, law number o25.3) the mandatory qualifications of an Islamic caliph are: 1. must be a Muslim 2. must be a male 3. must be from the Quraysh tribe of the Arabs 4. must be a freeman (i.e., not a slave) 5. must be of sound mind. This provision of Islamic law means that the world—the Pan Islamic world, must be ruled by an Arab (from the Quraysh stock, probably from Saudi Arabia or Jordan ) and no one else."
Link:
http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/AbulKasem51205.htm
All would-be suicide bombers have to be pretty brain dead, like the egregious Mohammed 'I am a soldier' Khan from 7/7 (except I dont want to fight anyone who might fight back, like a proper soldier might...), but female islamic suicide bombers - it just makes even less sense, if thats possible.
Whats in it for them? In all the juvenile descriptions of the paradise that awaits holy murderers in the Kran, are women ever mentioned, except as dark-eyed hoes (sorry, raisins) to serve the men?
Raiyshi blank looks makes you think how disgusting the koran truly is! she must of been caught with her boyfriend, and is given either strangulation by her closest male relative, or blow herself up to pieces to allah! you will find that lost of women is same predictment, and or widows.. they have nothing left in life. so they chose to kill others.. what an inspiring culture!
As a supplementary note to Archimedes' cogent commentary:
Islam's war against religion most certainly includes what we in the West deem to be anti-religion, or more commonly known as Secularism. Islam views such as the most vile of religions.
Thus, those in the West who believe that secularism saves them from the decaptitating knife and that Islam is a convenient tool against the Judeo-Christian culture they despise (or at least shun), are very mistaken.
"Inactivity is death." - Benito Mussolini
HAL SAYS, HUMMM, PRETTY INFORMATIVE STUFF UP THERE ON THIS THREAD, EVERYONE READS IT AND BECOMES ENLIGHTENED i THINK, THANKS, HAL, THE BOOK BURNER
The resemblance between Islam and Nazism was asserted by none other than the Haj Amin el-Husseini [Husayni], British-appointed mufti of Jerusalem.
We recall that he was chief leader of the Palestinian Arabs in the 1920s, 1930, and 1940s, a Nazi collaborator, living in the Nazi-fascist domain during WW2 and urging the Germans to kill more Jews faster. [documented in various sites on the Internet: do a google of ["arabs and nazis" + husseini] and ["arabs and nazis" + husseini + bosnian] ["arabs and nazis" + husseini + handschar]
He gave a pep talk to the Bosnian Muslim SS division, the Handschar, in which HE asserted a similarity between Islam and "National Socialism". That is, Husseini said so, not Robert Spencer, or Hugh Fitzgerald, or Prof. Bostom. Now this personality, the Mufti, combined in one man a Pan-Arabist, a Pan-Islamist, a mufti [Muslim religious judge], and a "Palestinian" Arab political leader.
So likening the Quran to Mein Kampf was already done by a pan-Islamic leader. Right out of the horse's mouth, or the camel's mouth if you like.
NOT SO sheik yer'mami! book BURNER HAL HERE: BELIEVE IT OR NOT, MULIMISM IS A HIGHLY INTELLECTUALIZED INSTITUTION, HISTORY SHOULD SHOW YOU THAT. THEY HAVE BOGUS SCHOLARLY TOMES GALORE, AND LOTS OF CONVERTS WHO CAN PUT ONE WORD AFTER ANOTHER WITHOUT GETTING TANGLED UP. AND, THESE ARE ABOLUTELY WORSHIPPED BY THE BILLION OR SO MOBOTS - BUT, THROW SERIOUS DOUBT INTO THE UPER-CLASS, AND THE WHOLE MOVEMENT WILL LOSE IT'S HEAD. YOUNG INTELLECTUALS WHO WILL HEAR OF THE MANY DISPROVABLE ELEMENTS OF THE AUTHENTISCITY OF THE KORAN WILL LOUDLY DEFECT (AND GRATEFULLY) AT THE FIRST WELL PUBLICIZED PROOF OF CORRUPTION - I KNOW IT IS WELL KNOWN, BUT THIS HAS NEVER, EVER BEEN GIVEN THE PRESS IT DESERVES - LOVE, BOOKBURNER.
to "mussolini"
Are you aware that you're namesake several times met and communicated with Haj Amin el-Husseini whom I discuss in a post above? He also supplied him with $$ and weapons during the so-called "Arab revolt" in Israel in the 1930s. Il Duce was a clever fellow in many ways, but it is a measure of his foolishness that he thought he could use the Arabs, specifically the pan-Arab nationalists, and the pan-Islamists. When Husseini [often called "the Mufti"] arrived in Europe, he met Mussolini before he met Hitler. Then he decided that it was more opportune for him to be closer to the Germans and be Hitler's protege. So he ditched Mussolini and set up his camp near Berlin with German Nazi subsidies. Nevertheless, Mussolini continued to allow the Mufti's broadcasts over Radio Berlin to be transmitted to the Arab countries through the Bari radio transmitters.
Another self-deception by Il Duce was declaring himself a sort of protector of the Arab world and/or Islam. Kaiser Wilhelm had done that around 1900, by the way.
After Italy left the war in 1943 [without relating how this happened], the German troops massacred tens of thousands of Italians, not only partisans, but Italian troops who surrendered to them. Think of the Greek island of Cephalonia. On one island, maybe Cephalonia again, there were regular battles between Italians and Germans. All this was a product, perhaps indirect, of Mussolini's alliance with Hitler. So if you think Mussolini was good for Italy, think of Cephalonia, etc.
Back to the common ground of Islam and Nazism.
Hitler met the Indian [proto-Pakistani] Muslim scholar Muhammad Inayat Allah Khan [or Ali Khan?] in Berlin in 1925. They spent long hours together discussing Islamic jihad which the future fuehrer was much interested in. They exchanged correspondence several times in later years. Khan wrote that Hitler was "congenial."
source: J.M.S. Baljon, Modern Muslim Koran Interpretation [the spelling of the word Muslim may differ in the book, as may the word order of the title], published by Brill in Leiden.
Sounds like adolf the paperhanger [housepainter?] was influenced by Islam as much as the other way around.
Mein Kampf Popular in Islamic Countries.
1.
This article covers the recent surge in popularity of Mein Kampf in Turkey.
http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=10&categ_id=4&article_id=13511
2.
Their Kampf
Hitler’s book in Arab hands.
By David Pryce-Jones, from the July 29, 2002, issue of National Review
http://www.nationalreview.com/29july02/pryce-jones072902.asp
RE: cannot even get Bin Laden (may pigs piss be upon him)
not a peep out of bin Laden in months and I would bet my bottom dollar that he is dead.