Wretched simpleton update

"Wretched Simpleton"...hmmmm

Nah, I'll stick with Mr Ape Pig

Not a Hindu. Why would a Hindu feel animosity towards Israel? Jews in India were never prosecuted.Bilateral ties are most cordial since 1992.Israel is India's second largest military supplier after Russia.

Bilateral Relations: Historical Overview

Bilateral Relations: Bilateral Treaties and Agreements

India-Israel Economic and Commercial Relations

he claims he is a hindu, but secretly i suspect he is just the first wave of the newest relegious threat to hit this planet, he is of course the warring bhuddist

you see muslims, jews and christians are getting all the limelight these days and its simmering away nothing but resentment in the bhuddist community

only the other week i heard of the bhuddist 'jihad' plan for them all to wear blue robes instead of orange, is there no end to their cunning? its peace love and flowers to our faces, but its simmering tensions behind our backs

as from today i therefore suggest a name for this 'hindu' poster and he shall be known as bhuddist laden,- if only because it will really upset him

Well, one point well-taken: That is one bad case of sibling rivalry that has really gotten out of hand.

Heh. And I thought my sister and I had some serious knock-down, drag-out fights.

What an apology of an imposter!

This sorry impostert can't even construct a simple sentence in English language. If he/she had any common sense, he/she would know that a Hindu dedicates, regardless of life circumstances, him/herself to education and knowledge. In Hinduism, so important is knowlede and education, that Hindus even have a 'Godess' of knowledge.

In short, however misplaced a Hindu's hostility is, he/she will do a better job of expressing him/herself, correctly & completely.

No wonder little Israel beat the crap out of those Arab countries, time and again.

Masquerading as a Hindu is just another Jihad tactic - deception. And of course, deception in Jihad is fully justified by "the religion of peace."

My first thought on this matter is that this guy is a white supremacist.

98 percent of Hindus are very peace loving,tolerent people. When Islam invaded Persia(Iran),a stream of persecuted Zorostrians came down allthe way to India ,for they knew Hindus were very tolerant ,peaceful people. They were well received in India,and to day they are known as Parsies. But there is a sect of Hindus ,who call themselves as Brahmins-hardly 2percent of the entire Hindu population. They call themselves "high class" and otherHindus are not suppose to touch them! Now they are mellowing down,thanks to British occupation of India,which provided western education to ALL Hindus.They are a cunning people,thriving well in foriegn countries-thanks to the english education.are instrumental in the burning alive of An Australian Missionary Bro.Stains, Who was working for the leppers of India ,along with his two sons.So no one from the J/W should take any notice of this tiny 'black dot' of hindus. Just ignore them,as the majority Hindus do.I was in India for two years,and loved that country. I find so many well-meaning Hindu posters for jihad watch. Let not this stupid crap lead to the conclusion that all Hindus are 'Anti-semitic or Anti Jihad watch..

Rafia, though your conclusion is accurate but your knowledge of caste system aint. Caste system was a social hierarchy. With castes placed one below the other in social standings. Almost all castes have their fair share of blame to what happened to Dalits. Brahmins though instituted the sytem, my ancestors the Kshatriyas were responsible for implementing it. So categorisation of all Brahmins as bad people is uncalled for.

P.S the guy who murdered Staines is on death row.

Vikrant,

If you could have a look at what I wrote up about Sandhya Jain I'd appreciate it and perhaps you could offer some explanation for this kind of Hindu appeasement of Islam. No Hindu masquerading there, the real thing.

Does anyone believe this guy is really a Hindu?

The real question is, islamonazi or vanilla nazi?

I've had enough. I've bene lurking here for months and just waiting for the right handle. (Kidding) Actually, I can't sit back watching anymore. Silence implies acceptance. I will not accept Jihad and what it entails. My eyes have been opened wider than I ever expected from information here as well as links provided on this site and by it's posters. I have shared my new knowledge with others and have been described as intolerant, racist and an Islamophobe (my personal favorite). I am grateful to see people from around the world participating on this site. That gives me some measure of hope.

The quote isn't verbatim but captures what I feel and what is simply, plainly, true:

"The only way evil can triumph is when good people do nothing"

patung nows Hindus appeasing Muslims is nother matter altogether. We have more than our share of islamopolgists. To understand these so-called "secular" (read minoritist) Indian individuals you'd need a basic understanding of Indian politics. Indian politics revolves around the 140 million Muslim votebank for whose sake an entire history-revisionist has been created under the guise of "Human Resources Development Ministry". Indian Muslims have their own personal sharia laws which means that they are allowed polygamy and other social evils, they get $30 million Haj subsidy... Anyways thats a fairly contentitous issue and i guess not many will be intrested in it.

http://koenraadelst.voiceofdharma.com/

This is pretty handy website if you wanna learn more about The genocide of Hindus and present appeasement of Muslims by Indian politicians.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/008347.php

This is a JW story about an Indian "secular" party using OBL lookalike to woo Muslim voters.

sorry for some typos there.

There are Hindus who are anti-Islamic. There are nominal Hindus who are anti-Jewish (and anti-Hindu and anti-Christian) - they are called Leftists. There aren't Hindus who are both.

Robert, on the number - 70m, is that the number
killed during Moghul rule (1526-1761)? I've seen this number here, and I've also seen the number 80m bandied about in the context of their predecessors between 1000 to 1526. Can anyone confirm what the total number really was throughout Indian history?

Within India, when this topic comes up, the opprobrium tends to focus mainly on foreign invaders, such as

- Mahmud of Ghazni
- Mohammed Ghori
- Timur
- Nadir Shah
- Ahmad Shah Abdali

Aurangzeb is also sometimes thrown into the mix for reversing a policy of limited tolerance started by Akbar, and gradually eroded by his successors Jahagir & Shah Jahan.

However, the truth is that every Muslim ruler that India had - be it the Delhi Sultans, the Bahmanis, the Moghuls or others - pursued a systematic policy of persecution. On the rare occasion that the atrocities eased, it wasn't due to a change of heart, but rather the focus of external threats, such as Genghiz Khan threatening the Delhi sultanate.

And I've not even counted Mohammed bin Qasim or Mohammed Ali Jinnah.

Vikrant

As for the party that tried to use UBL in the election to woo the Muslim vote bank, they were trounced for the first time in 15 years.

In my company work many Hindus (and a few Indian and Pakistani Moslems, but mostly Hindus), along with Russians, some Nigerians and Ghanians, and Chinese (and of course many people born in the USA). One Hindu co-worker, a friend of mine, is very well aware of the Moslem massacre of Hindus and thinks that the silence about it is disgusting. I'm sure there are more like him.

Hello all,

I hope you enjoyed your little (or large festivities at Christ-Mass). I have been busy looking afetr my hubby who isn't so well at the moment, so I thought I'd take a break....a Jihadwatch if you will and I find this delightful topic.

My father-in-law who was in India (for sometime before the partition) had some opinions.

The Hindus and the Bramins in particular he would say were very keen to keep up their knowledge, appearances and deception.

The Bramins he would say are like a rolling log, rolling over to whichever way is more favourable. They had no loyality only a smell towards what will favour them...today.

Small wonder that we (muslims) had so many of them as junior ministers in our courts during the mogul empire...they were there for their cunning...not their loyality....which was there as a result of the muslim army prowess.

To many they are known as "the enemy within".

Someone above says "There are Hindus who are anti-Islamic" ...yeah some. But mostly they will favour who ever will treat them best.

Someone above says "There are Hindus who are anti-Islamic" ...yeah some. But mostly they will favour who ever will treat them best.

Yeah, it's called gratitude - an evil quality non-existant within the ummah, and which only an infidel would follow.

My father-in-law who was in India (for sometime before the partition) had some opinions.

The Hindus and the Bramins in particular he would say were very keen to keep up their knowledge, appearances and deception.

The Bramins he would say are like a rolling log, rolling over to whichever way is more favourable. They had no loyality only a smell towards what will favour them...today.

What a bunch of bigotry!

None of the above, especially about Brahmins is accurate. First of all, caste system was formed for convenience. Brahmins were men of learning, Kshatriyas were the warriors, Vaishyas dealt with the businesses and Shudras with the rest of the tasks, often labourers in the field and so on. The caste system wasnt rigid but became so over the period of several millenium.
All this crap of Brahmins being cunning people is a bunch of crap. Get the facts right
And before you guys call me a Brahmin, I am a Christian. Never have Christians been persecuted in India and unlike what a lot of people think, Christianity was brought to India much before Europeans ever heard of Christ.
If Staines was murdered, the murderer is on death roll. Lots of missionaires convert tribals (who are illiterate) with the lure of money, food and medicines for their children. If you guys read up on history, never have Hindus treated Christians with animosity.
As for Jews, ask them. There are two very small pockets (one in Bombay, the other in South INdia) with practising Jews. And each and everyone of them will vouch for the royal treatment they have been given by the Hindus. Hinduism is as much a culture as it is a religion today. The advances made by Hindus in Mathematics, sciences, even medicine are unparalleled. I am proud to call myself a Hindu, in spite of practising Christianity.

the fact is anyone can come on this website and claim to be what ever they say. l dont for one beleive this idoit calling himself a Hindu. just one sick individual wanting attention. l dont have problems with most religions but islam, which most on this site agree is a cult of death. its all of us against this evil machine. and l know as long as humans long for freedom, islam cannot destroy us!

Razdan says "What a bunch of bigotry"! Someone else says "All this crap of Brahmins being cunning people is a bunch of crap". Then you my friend know very little about it.

I hope that some sikhs are reading this thread, perhaps some of them will tell you about how they have been screwed by this enemy within.

I have been on the phone to my sikh friends in the UK. Muslims...whatever they feel about them they can deal with....they know that they were the enemy ...you knew where you were with them ...but how can you tell about the enemy within.

Satan above says "None of the above, especially about Brahmins is accurate. First of all, caste system was formed for convenience".

YES...BUT FOR WHO'S CONVENIENCE.

Ordinary hindus were not allowed to pray to God...they had to do that throught the Bramin...who told them that.....why is that?

The God Bramaha says "NO matter what he has done treat my Bramin with respect"....Who would write that?

The cleaner would have to tie a brush behind his back so that it cleaned his footsteps as he walked ...who but the bramin instigated that.

All the lower caste & Dalits were told "there is no hope for you in this lifetime....treat the bramin well and you will come back as a bramin in your next life...then it will be your turn to be treated well....who but a bramin would say that....for their conveninece.

The bramin screwed who he could to win favours...nothing much has changed in that respect.

Christianity was brought to India much before Europeans ever heard of Christ.

Naseem opines, "Ordinary hindus were not allowed to pray to God...they had to do that throught the Bramin...who told them that.....why is that?"

You obviously have no clue about Hinduism except for the junk that was fed to you by your father-in-law and your local imams. Hindus do not need a priest to pray for them... each Hindu has a small shrine within his/her house to pray to whichever diety he/she chooses to, without interference from any priest. They DO NOT need a Brahmin to pray for them!

I have been on the phone to my sikh friends in the UK. Muslims...whatever they feel about them they can deal with....they know that they were the enemy ...you knew where you were with them ...but how can you tell about the enemy within.

I don't know who your Sikh friends might be who seem to give you such idiotic ideas. I can assure you that that is not the mainstream view of Sikhs. I have plenty of Sikhs as friends and all have tremendous respect for Hindus. You must be aware that the Sikh religion arose mainly to fight the scourge of Islamic jehad. It was common for every Hindu family in Punjab to raise a son as a Sikh in order to safeguard and protect Hindus. Here's a history about the common heritage of Sikhs and Hindus:

http://www.hinduweb.org/home/sikh/rverma/goel1.html

You might learn a thing or two by reading the history of Guru Gobind Singh, the last Guru of the Sikh faith, who laid down his life to help protect Kashmiri Brahmins (whom he and everyone else revered and respected).

http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/gurus/nanak10.html

So quit trying to create a wedge between Hindus and Sikhs where there is none.

Islam has nothing to do with Christianity or Judaism; there is no ' family fight'.

To understand islam, think of someone called Asshole opening up a store and calling it
'Walmart'; when the real Walmarts tell him to change his name, his response is to kill them, and to insist that the Asshole family name was really Walmart, and that the Walmart family are lying about their name.
The Asshole family had nothing to do with Walmart, they just stole the name and a few of the sales slogans, killing anyone who challenged them; islam, similarly, has nothing at all to do with Christianity or Judaism; mohomed, of the a--h-le family, attached his new religion to Christianity and Judaism to give it credibility, borrowed a few bits from those older religions, and insisted that the early Christians and Jews, Moses, Jesus, etc, were all really moslems, ie of the a--h-le family like himself.

To repeat, there is no relationship between islam, and Christianity or Judaism.
There has been a long family fight between Christianity and Judaism, now apparently resolved.

I like Hindus, all of them, and reject, out of hand, the ignorant and ugly slurs on a truly ancient and truly great religion.

I join with Hindus in the great 21st century project for this planet: to render impotent the threat of islam; to once and for all rid ourselves of the ghost, the terrible legacy, of ....., the destroyer of people, families, societies and civilizations.

I just realized I made a small error in my posting above. It was actually Guru Tegh Bahadur, father of Guru Gobindji, who laid down his life for the sake of the Kahmiri Hindu Brahmins. His biography can be found in:
http://www.sikh-history.com/sikhhist/martyrs/nanak9martyr.html

and

http://www.searchsikhism.com/nanak9.html

(excerpt from above)

The Emperor Aurangzeb had adopted a cruel policy of extermination against the Sikhs, whom he considered to be grave political danger to his centralized Empire. He persecuted the non-Muslim constantly dreaming of a Muslim Empire in India. However, the Hindu shrines were thrown down in cities like Banaras and Brindaban in broad daylight and mosques raised instead. The official sword put to death all those who refused to accept Aurangzeb’s political religion. To kill a Hindu, “a Kafir” was represented as a religious duty. The whole country rose, with one cry, one prayer and one curse against the blind tyranny. The experiment of wholesale conversion was first tried in Kashmir. It was thought that if Kashmiri Pandits were converted, the inhabitants of Hindustan would readily follow their example. Thus, in pursuance of the Emperor’s order, Sher Afghan Khan, the Emperor’s viceroy in Kashmir, set about converting Kashmiri Brahmins by sword and massacred those who persisted in their adherence to the faith of their forefathers. Ultimately, about 500 Brahmins, under the leadership of Kirpa Ram, proceeded to Anandpur where Guru Tegh Bahadur was then residing. They were hopeful of Guru Tegh Bahadur coming to their rescue. He would surely save dharma from extinction. Their honour and faith could be protected by Guru Tegh Bahadur only and he alone could mould their destinies in this hour of trial. The Brahmins at first went to Amritsar where they took bath in the holy tank.

When the delegation arrived at Anandpur the Guru was holding his Darbar, which by now had become a daily routine. He had just finished his sermon when Kirpa Ram, along with others, appeared on the scene. He addressed the Guru: “Osaviour, please save us! save us!” Tears rolled down the eyes of Kirpa Ram. He told the Guru of the atrocities committed on fellow Brahmins by Aurangzeb’s Governor, Iftikhar Khan, in Kashmir. The Guru was deeply touched on hearing the pathetic story and plunged into deep thought. He knew well that the ruthless campaign launched by the Emperor would exterminate Hinduism. Something tangible was needed to arouse the conscience of the Emperor. He patted the Brahmins and consoled them. The Guru said that some priestly and noble should had to lay down his life in order to save dharma and honour of the depressed people. A very holy person was required immediately to sacrifice his life in defense of the freedom of worship and freedom of conscience. The Guru was seized of some problem. The Guru’s son, Gobind hardly of nine years reacted to this and said, “Dear father, why is your ever bright and gleaming face drawn in agony. May I know the reason, Gurudev?” The Guru replied: “Bad days are ahead, my dear son! The rulers have turned hostile to their own subjects. They are adopting cruel methods to spread their religion. They are resorting to the use of force which is not permitted even in their own religion. The only way out is that of the purest and the holiest persons in the land to throw themselves before these thirsty wolves and save the religion from destruction.” The child listened to him quietly and patiently without uttering a single word. The Guru continued “Where to find such a holy and pure person?” The child said: This is a very simple proposition, Gurudev, you are holiest of holy. Who else can be holier than you.” The Guru was thrilled on hearing the proposal of the child, hardly nine years of age. The depth of his thought surprised the Guru.

There was a glow on the face of the Guru. He replied: “I have absolutely no hesitation in giving my head but I am grieving that you are still a child and who would take care of you.” Guru Tegh Bahadur was pleased to hear the courageous word from his worthy son and then advised the Pandits to go to Aurangzeb and tell him that they, together with all the Brahmins of Kashmir, were ready to embrace Islam if Tegh Bahadur who was their Guru was first converted. The Pandits then went to Zalim Khan, the then Governor of Lahore, and presented him their petition to Aurangzeb. The Emperor was highly gratified to read it and called the Qazis and maulvis in a darbar and joyfully announced to them the contents of the petition. The Emperor told the Pandits that he accepted their condition for conversion to Islam.

The emissaries of Aurangzeb came to Anandpur to summon the Master to Delhi; but he would not go with them, he promised to follow. He had yet to go to see disciples who were thirsting for him, those that lived on his way to Delhi. He took his own time and his own road; it lay through the midst of his disciples, and it lay covered with their flower-offerings. At Agra the Master with five chosen disciples delivered himself to the Emperor’s men there awaiting him - he had taken so long in coming that they doubted his promise. He was then taken to Delhi. The Master and his companions were kept in Kotwali lock-up at Chandani Chowk in Delhi and tortured there, under the orders of Aurangzeb. But all torture was to him as a mud spray against a mountain wall. Guru Tegh Bahadur never for a moment took his mind out of the Dhyanam of Reality. He maintained a peace of mind that the dissolution of three worlds could not have disturbed. The Guru and his companions were summoned again to the Emperor’s darbar in an effort to persuade them to accept Islam. It was the last meeting between the Emperor and the Guru. He could not change the Guru’s mind. The Guru advised the Emperor: “You should treat all your subjects equally. The lives of all the people are valuable. It is no use eliminating men of other faiths.” The Emperor did not listen to him and firmly declared that either Guru Tegh Bahadur must accept Islam or show some miracle. If he did not show the Karamat (miracle), he would have to face execution. The Emperor asked for Karamat again and again but the Guru refused to perform any miracle. He replied: “It is against my religion to perform any miracles, but you will see a miracle the day I am executed. I do not believe in performing miracles for saving my life. When my brother performed Karamat, my father disapproved of it and my brother had to sacrifice his own life. Our religion does not permit showing magical powers. I hope one day you will realize the futility of your policy and let live all people in peace. All is in the hands of God. He is the Supreme Creator. Everybody will have to answer the Almighty for his deeds.”

The Guru was put in an iron cage now. The Emperor suspected that the Guru might escape. Aurangzeb immediately passed orders for the execution of Mati Das. The orders were conveyed to him in the presence of the Guru. He was give a choice between embracing Islam and death. On hearing this, Mati Das’ face beamed with joy. He bowed his head at the Guru’s feet and said: “O True King, bless me. I am glad I have been given this exalted position of dying before my Great Master. The day is not far off when the rule of tyranny and injustice will be no more in this land. With your benign grace, I shall be able to swim the ocean of death cheerfully.” Mati Das handed himself over to the executioner. At the same time, Bhai Dayala and Bhai Sati Das were asked to embrace Islam or face death. They bluntly brushed aside any such suggestion. Finally, Guru Tegh Bahadur embraced them, kissed their foreheads and blessed them “Your act of bravery will be written in golden words in the history of the country. I bless all of you. I am proud of you. I am full of joy for your devotion. May God bless you.” Then, in the presence of Guru Tegh Bahadur, Bhai Mati Das was bound between two pillars and his body cut in twain with a saw. When the executioner began to apply the saw to his body, he started repeating Japji. It is said that even as his body was cut into two, he continued to repeat the great morning prayer and became silent only when its repetition was complete. Bhai Mati Das’ body was mercilessly cut into pieces. It was a heroic death. Bahi Dayala feet and hand were tied and he was thrown into a cauldron of boiling oil. Not a cry of pain was uttered by him. He died with the Name of God on his lips.

I recently returned from a tour of nothern India, specifically Rajastan. I was able to visit palaces and forts. They were for the most part built either by Moslems fighting with Hindu's or Hindu's fighting with Moslems, I asked my guide the following:
"When did the Hindu's finally through the Moslems out?" My guide repled, "They didn't. It was the British who gave us our freedom." Is this true?
What really baffled me was seeing Hindu women who were now living with the personal restrictions of a more militant Islamic push. They were restricted to the borqua and were allowed no contact with the opposite sex aside from family. The Hindus should be proud of their heritage and should seek to strengthen it.

"When did the Hindu's finally through the Moslems out?" My guide repled, "They didn't. It was the British who gave us our freedom." Is this true?

No it isn't. British never gave us freedom. British didn't inherit India from Muslims. They defeated Sikhs and Marathas in northern India(with the help of a Hindu army of course) to perpetuate their rule. Muslims had ceased to be a domitant force by the time the British started establishing their rule. However the British routed Tipu Sultan in Karnataka and Siraz ud doula in Bengal.

Hi, Robert and the rest of the gang!

As a hindu, I am appalled by what this person has stated. He/she truly has no clue about what muslims have done to India, and what they continue to do to the sub-continent.

The sad part of this is that many of my people think the same way as this imbecile does. I have been embroiled in some rather heated arguments with family and friends regarding muslims and Islam, with some of them finally seeing the light.

I have many Jewish friends, and can honestly state categorically that they are VERY different to muslims. Chalk and cheese, my friends! One truly cannot compare Jews with Muslims.

I've always been on the side of Israel and the Jewish people, and will always be. Hindus and Jews have suffered greatly at the hands of muslims over the past 1400 years or so, and people must start waking up to this fact. Hindus and Jews need to stand together with Christians and other non-Islamic peoples against Islam and its adherents!

Take care, my friends, and have a wonderful and happy 2006!

Cheerio!

Vikash.
(From sunny South Africa)

It's interesting in this context --although a little off topic-- that as far back as 300 BCE, the Greek writer Megasthenes, a follower of Aristotle's Peripatetic school, if I am not mistaken, joined Jews and Indians in a common comparison with the Greek philosophers. He wrote that Brahmans and Jews had had certain knowledge, knowledge of certain things, at least as early as the Greek sages, if not before. Megasthenes had gone to India representing the Seleucid dynasty of Macedonians then ruling in northern Syria, Babylonia, and Persia, and hoping to regain control of the territories of "Hind" and "Sind." This is as I recall the story. Chandragupta was a Hindu ruler mentioned in connection with Megasthenes. The name Chandragupta is rendered in Italian as Sandracotto. The above poster,Sandracottus, may be using a Latin form of the name.

The bramin (sic) screwed who he could to win favours...nothing much has changed in that respect.
- Naseem

This is one of the standard techniques of Hindu-baiters like the above poster to deflect attention from an 800-year long holocaust of non-Muslims in the Indian sub-continent. By slamming the caste system, all attention gets diverted from a systematic campaign of murder, rape, pillage and slavery to the horrors of the caste system, which at its worst, discriminated against unfortunate groups of people, but didn't come close to the vile behavior of the warriors of Mohammed.

If the fault of the Hindus was due to Brahmins, why was it that all Hindus, regardless of caste, were the targets of the Jihad? Why didn't the various armies single out just Brahmins for their slaughter/conversion, but leave kshatriyas, vaishyas & shudras alone?

Also, the ministers that the Moghuls did have in their courts were Dhimmi Rajputs, like Man Singh in Akbar's court. They were not Brahmins. In the case of Man Singh above, his sister was married to Akbar, and it was he who defeated Rana Pratap at Haldighat. Given this context, it's amusing to see the above poster write:

Small wonder that we (muslims) had so many of them as junior ministers in our courts during the mogul empire...they were there for their cunning...not their loyality....which was there as a result of the muslim army prowess.

Given what those "junior ministers" did for the Moghuls, it's amusing to see the comments above, but in this case, I believe that the contempt, though misplaced, is well earned. In case one thinks that the "loyality.... was there as a result of the muslim army prowess", that prowess was on display by Aurangzeb, when he re-imposed the Jiziya tax, and found himself in wars w/ the Rajputs, Jats, Sikhs and Marathas. By the time he was done in 1707, his empire was on the verge of disintegration.

What an army!

As for the Sikhs, while Razdan has already pointed out the history of Guru Tegh Bahadur's murder, Sikhs were persecuted from the get go. Guru Nanak saw Babur's barbaric incursions into India via Punjab, Guru Anjan Dev was executed by Jahangir, his son Har Govind was at war w/ Shah Jahan. The only Sikhs who might have preferred Pakistan recently were the leading lights of the Khalistan movement, but even that movement has lost support across the board. After all, if India's Prime Minister can be a Sikh, who needs Khalistan?

"When did the Hindu's finally through the Moslems out?" My guide repled, "They didn't. It was the British who gave us our freedom." Is this true?

Since you were touring Rajasthan, your guide was pathetically wrong, and didn't know his own history. Rajputs by & large got their freedom after the death of Aurangzeb, w/ the Moghul army too stretched out and burned by wars w/ the Jats, Sikhs & Marathas to try & keep holding Rajput terretory. Also, the wars of succession for the Moghul throne that followed saw to it that Moghul influence disappeared. In Rajasthan, the Rajas & Ranas regained full control of their state.

As for the Moghul empire itself, after Nadir Shah's invasion of 1740, it was reduced to the walls of the Red Fort in Delhi. The dynasty itself didn't end until 1857, when the last emperor was exiled to Rangoon and died there. A fitting end to a vile dynasty.

What really baffled me was seeing Hindu women who were now living with the personal restrictions of a more militant Islamic push. They were restricted to the borqua and were allowed no contact with the opposite sex aside from family. The Hindus should be proud of their heritage and should seek to strengthen it.

It depends where you look. It tends to be a more of a practice w/ middle aged, married women. In case of young women who are married, it tends to be a practice more in the presense of elderly conservative in-laws.

Personally, I doubt it will be there for too long.

Vikk

Are you telling us that your acquaintainces happen to be both anti-Muslim and anti-Jew?

I know Hindus who are anti-Jew, and as I said before, they happen to be anti-Hindu as well, among other things. But even they tend to be Leftists, and make common cause w/ the Jihadis more out of a hatred of both the West and Hindus, rather than a fascination for the Quran. In some cases, they may mistake Urdu culture (music, movies, etc) as Islamic culture.

As for anti-Islamic, while most Hindus don't want a bloodbath w/ Muslims, they don't have any illusions of what they are capable of. And even if they happen to be the type pandering to Indian Muslims, they still don't have a positive view of Pakistan.

Mr/Mrs Naseem:???
I hope that some sikhs are reading this thread, perhaps some of them will tell you about how they have been screwed by this enemy within.

Sikhism would have never been born without the cruelty of Islam (Thanks for that but we'll scr*w Islam in the end...Raj Karega Khalsa).

In India, it is not the Brahmins but the mohammedans who are considered "the enemy within". It will be foolish of me to lump all mohammedans together as some are as patriotic as Sikhs, Hindus, Christians, Parsis, Bene Israels etc. My fear is, with most Indian mullahs and imams on the payroll of some middle eastern states, things *will* turn ugly. It is happening slowly but surely. Sooner the better, I say. Then, maybe, we can fill Naseem's Pukistan with these mohammedan leftovers fom the partition days.

Naseem, you being an 'Ahmadiyya' try to save your as*. I would not say your hubby because I know you are male. Come to a board with anti-islamic people all around. Weave a web of deception on them(poor female, ahmediyya persecuted by mohammedans in pukistan,tsk tsk and then slowly show your true colours talking and praising about your wretched allah. This is your takkiya-kalaam, wrap it and ph*ck off.

As for us and Hindus, what you are saying is famously known as Lahori Logic (heard of it from my paternal & maternal grandfathers from Rawalpindi & Multan resp). Anytime someone says something irrational and nonsensical, its classified as lahori logic.

Hi, Infidel Pride!

Most of the discussions/arguments I have had with people centred around Islam and muslims. Most of these people have defended muslims and their actions, and have hammered Jews and Israel.

Please understand that the people I have discussed or argued these matters with are not just hindus. They're from various religions, including Islam.

Another thing you should take note of is that the South African government is pro-Islam/pro-muslim. The government of my country have very close ties with Arabic/muslims nations, and they also favour the Palestinian cause over the Israeli one.

In fact, the ANC-lead South African government have been rather too friendly with countries like Libya, Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, etc. Sadly, any country that opposes the UK and the USA is a friend of the South African government.

Now this filters down to the ordinary citizen (brainwashing by referring to the UK and USA as colonialists, and their muslim and/or communist pals as victims), and you will find that people here follow like sheep regardless of what the truth is.

Do you know that the FBI discovered seventeen Islamic terror cells operating in South Africa about six months after 9/11? A lot of these groups train in the Kalahari desert, and our government conveniently turn a blind eye. I know a muslim woman who is actively involved in this "terror training". And I also know that a great deal of the funding of these groups comes from Saudi Arabia.

Must get home now, mate. Thanks for your question. Have a good day.

Cheers!

Vikk.

"Anytime someone says something irrational and nonsensical, its classified as lahori logic." from posting by desi_singh

This "lahori logic" which permeates all across Pukistan, is but a sub-category under the more generic oxymoronic category called "Islamic logic". One has only to read the Koran to realize how rife with contradictions Islam is (see, for example, http://answering-islam.org/Quran/Contra/ ). A good write-up on the warped Islamic mind, as exemplified by Naseem, is given by Barbara Stock in her excellent article "The Pathology of an Islamic Mind" (see: http://www.therant.us/staff/stock/11212005.htm )

Excerpt:
Within Islam, the killing of Muslims in other countries is not a crime if those Muslims are behaving in “un-Islamic” ways. If that country’s government has contact of any kind with the West, that is considered “un-Islamic.” Only killing Muslims in their own country is a crime. These Muslims then convince themselves that fellow Muslims would not do such a thing, so they point the finger of blame towards Israel. These warped Muslims believe Islam is always innocent. No matter how obvious the evidence showing otherwise, Islam is innocent. It must be. It has to be. Their twisted Islamic minds can accept nothing less.

Sadly, this is what happens to the human mind when it must be constantly bent and twisted to accept the unreasonable. The Muslim mind is twisted early in life and while there is hope that it can be made whole again, those who do recover must be willing to abandon friends and family because they will no longer be welcome.

The lucky ones will escape the insanity, and for them it is like being re-born. Their minds now clear of the maddening storm clouds of Islam, they will attempt to start a new life away from Islam. These few must move away from Islam—far away—because Islam will hunt them down and if they refuse to re-warp their minds to fit Islam, they are killed. Only in Islam is the abnormal mind accepted and the normal mind is killed.

You are right Eliyahu.
Sandracottus is actually the Greek name for Chandragupta Maurya not Latin.

"Christianity was brought to India much before Europeans ever heard of Christ."

St. Thomas? No. The Apostle Nathaniel traveled to India during the time of the persecutions and it is believed he died there.

Desi Singh, Ai-sallama-laikum to you.

I have been reading about Sikh History on the Internet & have been fascinated by their heorics. Like I said I have some good Sikh friends in the UK.

Sadly it seems that you are not up with your own history w.r.t. to hindus.

I read that after the 5th Guru (Arjan Dev) was cruelly executed, the 6th Guru was imprisioned in Gwalior prision and after being released also freed 50 odd HINDU hill rajas.

A centuary or so later was it not the grandchildren of these same (ungrateful?) hindu rajas who started to fight the sikhs...could not defeat them and then asked the MUSLIM ruler for help to defeat them.

Further, was it not a bramin who handed over the 10th Guru's (Gobind) Mother & grand childerns to us Muslims in exchange for gold coins...after having been in the service of the Guru for some time....talk about loyality there then.

Further, I read that in the Muslim court, where the children were brought to, an Imam said it was against Islam to execute children ....but that a hindu minister of the court insisted that they should be executed as they may become a problem in later life.

Desi, Lest you forget, these Hindus that you so love so much were responsible for finishing of the guru lineage of the Sikhs. They knew full well what would happen when handed over.

Did you conventiently forget all that desi, or didn't you just know...and does it take a muslim to remind you fo your own history.

And as for takkiyia on every turn....you over play that crap....look at the history.

Thomas taught and preached around the Mediterranean. He was apprehended and put to death by the Romas in Malta.

Actually, Rebecca, St. Thomas was indeed the Apostle to India.

This is well-attested in ancient Christian traditions as well as in the collective memory of the ancient Christian communities of India: they have always taught and understood that he founded their Churches, such that when Roman Catholic missionaries arrived in the 16th or 17th century and began speaking about the apostolic Church, the native Christians told them proudly that their Church had been founded by St. Thomas and was as apostolic as theirs.

Also, don't miss "St. Thomas" by Sonny Rollins.

Yours
Robert

R

Here is a little bit of background on St. Thomas in India:

http://members.tripod.com/~Berchmans/apostle.html

Yrs
R

Thanks Rebecca for clarifying about the coming of Christianity to India. Actually, it is not clear whether St. Thomas or Nathaniel came to INdia. There is the St Thomas Mount in Madras which is built for his memory.
But there is one thing that is definite, Thomas of Canaan came around 300AD to Southern India and settled with his people. Som Christianity has been peacefully co-existing in India with Hinduism and other religions for 1700 years. Of course, with the coming of the Portuguese, who tried to impose Catholicism through conquests and rapes and the British who tried to impose their version of Christianity, the local Hindus started feeling aggrieved with these so called foreign Christians. It was here that that Hindu Christian troubles started.

As for Naseem who raises the caste issue,
Naseem, caste system is a problem in India. Unfortunately, you know very little or conveniently forget the rest. Caste System is rampant only in the remote villages of North India. Of course, Brahmins and the so called high castes impose their unfair policies against the Dalits. But none of this can be generalized for the entire nation. Look at any major (or minor city) - the four metros, smaller cities like Bangalore, Vizag, Jamshedpur, Kanpur... It is not even practised there.
But from your name, I gather that you are a Muslim. How about the castes within the Muslim society? Ahmediyyas, Shias, Sunnis, Sufis - look at all the denominations. Muslims murder Muslims every day in the name of caste, look at your beloved Pakistan, Iraq.

And what did you say about Islam against execution? ROFL, so what does that caste Wahabis do in Saudi Arabia? What about amputation of body parts? Stoning people for adultery? Honour killings (by fathers and brothers!!!)?
Perhaps, you should look within, sincerely before posting here.

About Sikhs being persecuted: Once again, ROFL. Look at the breakdown of the INdian Army, you'll see that the Sikh Regiment is one of the best and the strongest. Perhaps, you should go to Punjab in India and ask the Sikhs there of their opinion. They are our brothers who guard us day in and day out from the evil eyes of the Islamist Terrorist Nation of Pakistan.

Naseem: Desi, Lest you forget, these Hindus that you so love so much were responsible for finishing of the guru lineage of the Sikhs. They knew full well what would happen when handed over. Did you conventiently forget all that desi, or didn't you just know...and does it take a muslim to remind you fo your own history.

Ah, yes, you must be talking about the wonderfully concocted Islamic version of history that is based on pure imagination as fantastic as that of its founder, Maha-mad. Can you supply us with even one actual historical reference to back up your claims? Stop spreading your taqiya here!

Razdan,
Didnt you know, Shakespeare was a Muslim? And all scientific inventions were because Allah blessed the Muslim scientists?
Naseem is so fortunate to be part of that religion of peace. Since this fraud has posted as a lady, let me take time to warn her of the atrocities that await her. If she dies as a virgin, she'll be one among the 72 virgins allocated for each of their terrorists. When she passed puberty, her own father must have dragged her to a place (or if she is rich enough, a group of ladies must have arrived at home) to perform the female circumcision (Muslim version). And why is this done? So that she doesnt gain any sexual pleasures while her husband enjoys himself. After she gets married, she'll be confined to the 4 walls of her husband's house, cooking and washing for her husband and kids. Even in 100-120 degrees of heat, she'll be dressed from head to toe in several layers of black cloth, lest someone cast an evil eye on her. When her husband gets tired of her, all he has to say is talaak talaak talaak and he is rid of her for ever.
Oh, Islam the beautiful religion.

jihadwatch writes:
"Also, don't miss "St. Thomas" by Sonny Rollins."

I salute you, sir!

Available in most CD stores on the album
"Saxophone Colossus". Probably on some
compilations as well.

Regarding St.Thomas, my Indian friend from Kerala(South India) tells me that he belongs to a sect of christians called :Mar Thoma" Christians. He gave me the following Information: Mar Thoma (Revered Thomas) christians are the direct descendants of the christianity that St.Thomas himself established in Kerala(South India).When the first Portugese voyagers came to India ,they were thrilled to see a huge cross at the sea shore of South India. These people are also known as Thomas Christians.They speak Malyalam- a language of South India. There are millions of this sects living here .There is a hill in Madras ,Where Thomas used to preach ,and even today,it is called 'Thoma Malai'(St Thomas Mount).

Small wonder that we (muslims) had so many of them as junior ministers in our courts

Naseem u speak as if you descend from the line of Mughal-Rujput bastards. Hast it ever occured to you that one of your ancestors may have been a "devious","cunning" Brahmin you so ignorantly generalise here. We see through your taquiyya. Quit trying to draw a wedge between Sikhs and Hindus and inbetween Hindus here when none exists.

desi_Singh is a Sikh and Razdan is a Kashmiri Brahmin whose brethren your mujahids soo gleefully exterminated from Kashmir valley. Better luck next time.

ViK-rant bhai....I love speaking to people from the East....so much more knowledge of each other than the sterile book read stuff spewed by the American infedel.

Vik bhai, give us a break here...we share common ancestors...what's the point in getting upset...we are where we are ....chill.

Naseem,
if you and Vik share the same ancestors, it goes on to show that this terrorist ideology called Islam has nothing to do with genes.
BTW, I thought Muslims, especially in Pakistan often claim that they are descendants of Mahmud of Ghazni, Mohammed Ghauri etc. After all, why else would you name your Chinese imported (and/or stolen) missiles Ghaznavi and Ghouri?

Naseem: Vik bhai, give us a break here...we share common ancestors...what's the point in getting upset...we are where we are ....chill.

How typical of Naseem to utter some meaningless inaninities when her unsubstantiated drivel is challenged!

SatSriAkal,

LOL,Naseem . I have read my history in full not in dribs and drabs which suit my purpose.

Vikrant has succinctly put it: We see through your taquiyya. Quit trying to draw a wedge between Sikhs and Hindus and in between Hindus here when none exists.

Save your breath for, as you say,"American infedel".