The Danish Muhammad cartoon controversy has not died down, and now a new one has begun in Norway. This is an element of free speech in the West: attempts to curtail it will inevitably meet resistance. The resistance, meeting the muzzling attempt head-on, will often look like a deliberate provocation. The Norwegian magazine would most likely never have reprinted the Danish cartoons of Muhammad if the Muslim reaction to their first printing hadn't been so disproportionate and ominous in its implications. "Norwegian Muslims Blast Magazine Over Prophet Cartoons," from IslamOnline, with thanks to Fjordman:
CAIRO, January 11, 2006 (IslamOnline.net) – Norwegian Muslims on Wednesday, January 11, blasted an obscure magazine for echoing a Danish daily and publishing a set of caricatures offending Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)."The Supreme Islamic Council (SIC) condemns in the strongest possible terms the publishing of such offensive cartoons by Magazinet," SIC Head Mohammad Hamdan told IslamOnline.net over the phone from Oslo.
The Christian magazine on Tuesday, January 10, published the same cartoons that caused uproar in the Muslim world after first emerged in Denmark's mass circulation Jyllands-Posten last September.
It printed the blasphemous cartoons in the name of "freedom of expression."
"What on earth does freedom of expression mean?" A furious Hamadan wondered.
The fact that you don't know, Hamadan, is part of the problem.
"The Supreme Islamic Council (SIC) condemns in the strongest possible terms..."
Well, not yet. Some mohammedan zealot will be delivering a package before long!
I keep the Danish cartoons on my webpage if you want to review them: http://www.muslimparody.com/Danish.html
שלום
Good. I hope the cartoons are published in other magazines worldwide. If Muslims do not want to see cartoons of Mohammed they should remain in Islamic countries. In the West we have freedom of speech and expression. It's irrelavent who's offended by someone else's free speech.
I wouldn't get my hopes up about seeing the caricatures printed in other newsmedia. Jyllands-Posten has, wisely one might say, denied the vast majority of requests to reprint the caricatures, as they feared they would be taken out of context and presented in a wrongful manner. Considering some of the articles that have been printed in foreign media about this issue, it seems like a wise precaution.
Magazinet(and a few others) was an exception, as they promised to publish them in their proper context; the (translated) article with which they were originally published.
The ´Supreme Islamic Council´ should be told to go and get stuffed, in no uncertain terms. Only public and open humiliation and ridicule will bring these fools to raison.
Sounds like the cartoonists and publishers are being accused of annoying Allah, Mohammad, and Muslims, and/or "stirring up sedition" against Islam. Of course, the Koran tells Muslims to take it all in stride, right?
33:57 Those who annoy Allah and His Messenger - Allah has cursed them in this World and in the Hereafter, and has prepared for them a humiliating Punishment.
33:58 And those who annoy believing men and women undeservedly, bear (on themselves) a calumny and a glaring sin.
33:59 O Prophet! Tell thy wives and daughters, and the believing women, that they should cast their outer garments over their persons (when abroad): that is most convenient, that they should be known (as such) and not molested. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
33:60 Truly, if the Hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and those who stir up sedition in the City, desist not, We shall certainly stir thee up against them: Then will they not be able to stay in it as thy neighbours for any length of time:
33:61 They shall have a curse on them: whenever they are found, they shall be seized and slain (without mercy).
33:62 (Such was) the practice (approved) of Allah among those who lived aforetime: No change wilt thou find in the practice (approved) of Allah.
The Norwegian newspaper, Magazinet, has received its first deaththreats today. One from a popular Middle-eastern e-mail service(not the provider, just an account provided by them) stating "You are a dead man!", another from a French Yahoo mail-address showing two pictures of burnt bodies...
http://magazinet.no/default.asp?menuid=&linktype=2&linkid=21887
Hey Constantinopole; Good show, my man. I had been reading about the "offending" cartoons, but never seen them. Thank you. They are funny. And what makes them funny is the fact that it based in truth. The Supreme Islamic Council (SIC, aint that the truth) needs to realize, Denmark and Norway aren't the Middle East. Or as I call it, Islamofecesland. There is a thing called "freedom" of speech. Mr. Hamadan knows this because he's to busy trying to surpress it. The question, I feel, was asked tongue in cheek. It's the same thing that CAIR was trying to do in the United States. They tried it last year with the FOX show 24. The storyline had an Arab terrorist cell, in the U.S., kidnap a presidential cabinet member, shoot own Air Force One, and almost make Los Angeles Hiroshima!!! This storyline caused CAIR to raise a fuss about, Arabs being "unfairly represented and typecast as terrorists". The lead actor, Kiefer Sutherland made an opening statement before one of the episodes that the show in "no way meant to put Arabs and Muslims in a negative light." He even went so far as to claim that they, Arabs and Muslims, love and are devoted to this counrty. And were good law abiding citizens. I even read where the storyline was changed to be more pc towards Muslims. Never mind the fact that the majority of the known terrorists in the world are ARABS!!! SAUDI ARABIAN, IRANIAN, PALESTINIAN, JORDANIAN. All MOSLIM or MUSLIM. SIC!!! CAIR, and Mr. Hamadan need to know that they can't suppress a free people. ALL free thingking folks of the Free World will not be bullied into submission. Seems to me that they've been raping and beating women to long and just don't realize that real men will stand up to them. Free thinkers are not politicians that have to cater to the pc whims of SIC(k) men. The fact that the Norwegian press has picked this up and has run with it is proof of the fact. Bravo Norwegians, Bravo!!!
Quotes from the article, with my comments.
"Hamdan said it is crystal-clear that the publishers want to trigger a sectarian sedition inside peaceful Norway."
Sedition (see previous post, 33:60-61). Was this based on Hamadan's choice of words?
""These caricatures do no good for Muslims, Christians or even atheists, but will only shake the national unity to its foundations," he said."
He's not kidding. This man actually believes the Koran. And he does mean sedition.
""He went on: "The prophet himself will not be affected by such provocative drawings, which are aimed at today's Muslims.""
So is he just cursing the cartoonists and publishers to hell-fires/doom, or is he threatening more?
""Editors should not take free speech as an excuse to insult a certain religion; otherwise they risk an extremist response from the offended,
which carries grave consequences.""
I see, he's threatening more, a lot more. This guy, given what he believes, just made a death threat.
""Rasmussen himself had refused to receive a delegation of Muslim ambassadors over the issue," he recalled."
Good for Rasmussen.
"Rasmussen urged the Danish people in a New Year address to practice their right to freedom of speech without inciting hatred against Muslims or other minorities."
That's impossible, unless we become devout Koran-adhering Muslims. See what Abul Kasem has to say about things that infidels do that are upsetting or "oppressive" to Muslims http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/AbulKasem51205.htm
"Hamdan further said that a lawyer currently studies the possibility of suing the magazine under relevant Norwegian laws. Danish Muslims are planning to take their legal battle against the Jyllands-Posten daily to the country's federal attorney general and the EU
human rights commission after loosing a local case. Al-Azhar, the highest seat of religious learning in the Sunni world, has vowed to raise the issue of the provocative caricatures with the UN and international human rights organizations"
So one faction carries out the soft jihad against western civilization...but let's keep in mind the other faction (of which Hamadan was sure to remind us), and that the official position of Al-Azhar on the hard (violent) jihad is that Sura 9 is still on.
"Hey Constantinopole; Good show, my man."
from Ironman, above.
Constantinople, Let me add to the applause. Great stuff!
I don't suppose it ever occured to those morons that WAY more people have now seen the cartoons since they created such a stink about them. I found a few of them funny but mostly I wondered why in the hell such a fuss.
Norwegian Moslem.
When I read that term, I see a blond man saying the words, "I hath shat my pants, please help me."
"Rasmussen urged the Danish people in a New Year address to practice their right to freedom of speech without inciting hatred against Muslims or other minorities."
Sounds like the usual muslim projection. Every couran-inspired evil is projected onto others. I seriously doubt these cartoon have "inspired hatred of muslims" by kuffirs, but they have no-doubt fanned the flames of couran-inspired hatred of kuffirs by muslims. Infidels are always expected to obey sharia laws. Can't touch the couran without white gloves (although I would advise rubber gloves to prevent contamination by the porcine shite contained within) so as not to "offend" our sworn enemies. Can't feed pork to the poor. Can't depict the "prophet". It's all part of getting the infidels to obey sharia law and "feel subdued".
Test questions.
How many of the drawings are of Mohammad?
What are they saying in drawing number nine?
What's the deal with drawings number 6 & 12?
http://www.newspaperindex.com/blog/2005/12/10/un-to-investigate-jyllands-posten-racism/#comments
a good cartoon like a good joke always has some element of truth in them.. and these are right on! that is most likely the reason why islamic people dont like it,, freedom of free speech!!
"First they came for the cartoons..."
"What on earth does freedom of expression mean?" A furious Hamadan wondered.
Hamadan, Now I hope your 'brain washed' pea brain will know what freedom of expression is: If you still do not know what it means, then I suggest go back to your hell hole where you came from. Savages like you will never know the freedoms we enjoy in the secular western countries.
Publication of the cartoons of Mohammed are a much-needed dose of reality for Islamists. The stated reason they don't want any pictures or cartoons of their Prophet is that this would be a form of idolatry. (How do they reconcile that with the profusion of pictures of religious leaders in Iran, Iraq, and elsewhere?) The real reason is that they fear any realistic picture of him would reveal that he was a monster or that his followers are fools.
To illustrate the first point, someone should draw this cartoon of Mohammed, based on contemporary descriptions of the man:
He had a scar on his jaw and was missing teeth due injuries in one of his many battles. He dyed his hair red with Henna and was afflicted with lice in the hair. He had a lump on the back of his neck like a partridge egg. He was an epilyptic. (These aspects are from various Bukhari ahadith and are documented in "The Islamic Invasion" by Robert Morey, Appendix A)
To illustrate the second point, someone should capture in art the incredible things said about him by his biographers.
His earliest biographer was Ibn Ishaq who wrote "The Life of Muhammad (Sirat Rasul Allah)" about 100 years after Mohammed died. In it he lists lots of fantastic things about Mohammed and his life. The most interesting is a description of a "seal of prophethood between his shoulders" (para. 123) Later when someone was trying to verify that Mohammed was a prophet, the man reports, "When the apostle saw me looking at his back he knew that I was trying to find out the truth of what had been described to me, so he threw off his cloak laying bare his back and I looked at the seal and recognized it." (para 141) All of this, I presume, is to underscore the verse in the Koran which says, "He is the Apostle of God and the Seal of the Prophets." (Surah 33:40)
Although the cartoons first published in Jyllands-Posten and later in Nagazinet are interesting and speak to Mohammed's character, none of them really shows him as he was described by people who knew him. I would like to see an artist draw a rendering of Mohammed based on descriptions by contemporaries. How could Moslems object to that?
Constantinople - bravo!
You might like this too . . .
Hilarious comic book about Islam:
"Mohammed's Believe It Or Else!"
http://islamcomicbook.com/
THREE MORE NORWEGIAN NEWSPAPERS HAVE NOW PUBLISHED THE SATAIC CARTOONS
http://www.dagbladet.no/kultur/2006/01/10/454375.html
http://www.dagbladet.no/kultur/2006/01/10/454375.html
AND AFTONPOSTEN PUBLISHED THEM TWO DAYS AGO
http://aftenposten.by.com/nyheter.asp?c4=@kategori&q4=Innenriks&qu=Kristen%20avis%20trykker%20tegninger%20av%20Muhammed
The Norwegian police have arrestted a man that sent threatening mail to JP
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/article1196608.ece
Maybe fjordman can trnalate as my Norwegian is not up to scratch
A writer for the Arab News also accused the unnamed publication (Magazinet) of deliberately publishing then during Haj.
shiva,
Thanks for those links. That picture in your third link says a lot.
1. Hundreds (or more) of Muslims can get motivated, angry, and well-organized to protest cartoons which they claim are defaming their religion.
2. If they could be this publicly demonstrative against Islamic terrorism (which supposedly defames Islam), they might have some impact on reducing the attractiveness of terrorist actions as a political tool.
Well, what a person does with his or her freedom of speech says a lot about what that person's priorities are. Cartoons that defame Islam are a higher priority concern than non-Muslims being slaughtered by terrorists. But as the Koran says, disbelief (in its various forms) is the worst crime.
But as the Koran says, disbelief (in its various forms) is the worst crime.
I'm guilty of mocking Moslems for always being angry and bitter. But, think about the fact that your Moslem neighbor bears the duty to convert, slaughter, or enslave every person on earth who does not agree with Moslem Man's chosen creed.
That's a lotta responsibility. It makes me scowl just to think about it.
Moslem Man got to shill you, or Moslem Man must kill you. If Moslem Man can't shill or kill you, then Moslem Man got to bill you. Moslem Man.
The first faith overturned by a cartoon.
Thank God Bugs Bunny is on our side!
Shiva,
...and the picture in the fourth link says as much (same protest), this being a small sample of the world-wide Muslim outrage over this.
Alarmed,
I think Mohammad realized that mockery could be a powerful tool. That's why he mocked everyone else's religion and then executed or assassinated those people who mocked him and his religion. The OIC and the various Muslim groups know this cartoon flap is a big deal, because it really does threaten Islam, mainly in the form of waking up the non-Muslims. But these Muslim groups have failed because the more attention that is paid to this, the more non-Muslims are likely to not just be woken up, but to find out what it is that they are facing.
Oh, and for Alarmed Pig Farmer-
I shouldn't forget that fearless freedom fighter, the Right Honorable Porky Pig.
His mere visage has been known to stampede a theocratic crank at 600 yards.
And I love his porcine estimate of Islam's future:
Th-theya-th-theya-that's all folks!
fireangel posted: I don't suppose it ever occured to those morons that WAY more people have now seen the cartoons since they created such a stink about them. I found a few of them funny but mostly I wondered why in the hell such a fuss.
The real purpose of islamists is to make islam preminent. I have said this since 9/11, that the 9/11 catastrophe was a positive event for islam. Not many would credit it at the time but now readily admit that this has been the case.
So it is with these cartoons. The more fuss islamists make of the cartoons, the more likely it is to create resistance from free people. This then creates the conditions necessary for islamists to get on the media and complain about islamophobia, and at the same time further islam through dawa. All publicity, bad or good, is good. And so it is for islam as well. So expect more of this.
The way forward is not walk into a trap that further raises the profile of islam. What frightens islamists/muslims more then anything is deportation to dar ul islam, where they would be unable to wage jihad. Those who question freedom of expression or those who threaten any who makes fun of islam/mohammed, should be deported along with their families. You will then be pleasantly surprised at the number of muslims who suddenly become avid supporters of freedom of expression.
The Supreme Islamic Council (SIC)...
What's wrong with that? Looks OK to me.
Rasmussen dosen't get it. These are Islamists, Muhammadans. You can't reason with them. You can't bargain with them. And they will not stop, ever until they have conqured you and the world for Islam. I love Denmark. Been there. Loved Copenhagen. But Copenhagen, Denmark is where I also met the enemy.
Terrorist Islamofeces in training. I won't repeat the story. But if he thinks that he can get along with these javamen, he's dangerously mistaken.
Muslims already hate them. It's just that they're better at hidding it. I hope Prime Minister Rasmussen finds his backbone, and has it permanantly fused in. Just like with the leftist in America, If you give in to them anything that they want, they'll take the rest of your freedoms!!! I'm a gun owner. I know from personal expereince.
Th-theya-th-theya-that's all folks!
Damn profitsbeard, that some purty harsh sheet right there.
Just this morning I was standing by Sty 12-Left --- that's my Potbelly facility --- with a grim social service worker. She was writing me up for failure to hire in a speech therapist to provide therapy for the 500 Pot Bellies housed there, all of who for some damned reason talk with New England accents. This socialist had became convinced that this is some kind of sick joke on my part.
I remember a few months back there was this new (to me) comedian doing a comedy series on radio 4 about a wide range of subjects. He did a controversial one on God.
The funniest line was "Some listeners may complain that I haven't mentioned Islam. Well I have now" and proceeded back into the safety of laughs inspired by other religions.
Guess he didn't think Islam is really a religion?
More likely, he just didn't want to spend time with Salman Rushdie!!!
Koranimals just don't know what a cartoon is. Should we excuse their ignorance?
Maybe they just don't have any literary expression in the koran (eg poems starting each new line with the next letter in arabic alphabet or even just poems?) Maybe the koran does so they are just collectively stupid?
Lets look at how they cannot understand anything cartoon like? (perhaps we should use the world liguisticly challenged to describe them and in the case of cartoons semioticaly challenged (I admit to being spellingly challanged))
http://www.theasiannews.co.uk/news/s/206/206571_eid_explosion_was_bad_taste.html
"This should not have been done. It sends out entirely the wrong message. What has explosions got to do with Eid? After what happened last July this was a very offensive thing to do."
Well maybe just logically challenged would be a catch all phrase to describe moslems.
These koranimals are offended by a cartoon graphic and that is because of last July --- hold on a minute --- aren't they offended at last July?? How can they be offended people see Islam as violent after last July. I can't make the connection. Ha.
Perhaps a cartoonist could do a flash animation of sesame street's "3 of these things belong together" to help these logically impaired people. I suggest "love, respect, peace" as the three and "Islam" as the odd one out.
Of course, I could be wrong and they are very very clever and as Mike_W wrote on another DW post
"What a perfect illustration of Islamic triumphalism when idiot Muslim children are reminding dhimmi Britain what they have in store if Britain doesn't submit to every childish demand."
That's part of the trouble with Islam: no sense of humor.
How about some better cartoons, or paintings, which
hit the target harder? A graphic novel perhaps? I
already suggested a picture, the deflowering of
Ayesha, but there are so many atrocities that old
Mo committed that a series of graphic novels would
be necessary.
I agree with Ali Sina though, Bugs Bunny kicks ass
on Allah, and his egregious cult leader.
I really like the idea of placing one of the Mohammed cartoons next to a cartoon selected from the Mideast press and published, most appropriately in the Jyllens-Posten, and then aske the readers to call in with their opinioins as to what's wrong with each picture. This exercise in comparative literature and bridge building would doubtless help all readers understand the sensitivities of other cultures. This can go on for weeks until everybody gets their fill of education or until the newspaper gets bombed by Porky Pig, whichever comes first.
A-bee-budda-bee-budda-bee...That's all folks!
"That's all folks" ... inscribed at the top of the headstone of Mel Blanc... a creative Jew, who brought smiles to millions and who's god, unlike that of the muslim, blessed him with intelligence and humor.
I have to ask this rather simple question
If allah is supposed to be god...
(Which he isnt)...
You mean to tell me a god cant handle having a picture of him....
You mean to tell me a god cant handle a cartoon..
You mean to tell me a god cant handle puny humans with a pen...
This just proves even more that the so called god of islam is FALSE...
why...
Because if he is god and created the entire universe (with all of his power and wisdom)..
Yet he cant handle or deal with a human being drawing a cartoon of his supposed prophet...
There are more drawings, they feel offended by, I posted a few here :
http://www.faithfreedom.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15457&highlight=
Holy Snikey! Hold the phone! It suddenly came to me, like a revelation even. The reason everybody's so twisted up about a cartoon...
Mohammed is a Toon!
Remember "Who Framed Roger Rabbit?" Remember Judge Dread and his campaign to do away with Toon Town? Well he turned out to be a Toon in disguise, susceptible only to Dip. I'll bet you a Gazilion-Bajillion bucks that Mohammed is a Toon in drag too. It accounts for so much.
But unfortunately he could then offer up the same excuse as Jessica Rabbit for his misdeeds: "I'm not really bad. I'm just drawn that way."
We can defeat Islam by putting a mirror to it's face.
Yes, reprint all the Images in publications all over the world.
Bravo to The Christian magazine!
Denmark, Norway,
maybe Finland
one day?
Sweden is dhimmi
and won't give a hand
to help her fellow Scandinavians.
It is like that in war.
Viking warriors,
hear the ancestors battle cry?
They are riding
through the mists of time,
sublime on noble steeds,
with weapons held high,
they long for heroic deeds
and cry "Live Free or Die!"
Well done Denmark,
well done Norway.
yea, well done
valiant sons.
In order too help the American People understand in particular the liberal red diaper doper baby left over’s the danger of Islam as a dangerous ideology is too show how it is exponentially more dangerous than communism and Nazism combined.
Islam is not a religion. It is more liken too a SOCIO POLITICAL DEATH CULT (SPDC), exponentially MUCH more dangerous than communism and Nazism combined.
There needs too be a FACTUAL VIDEO DOCUMENTARY put together too outline Islam (SPDC)it's history based solely on the Koran, Hadith, and history. It is going to impossible for liars and front groups like CAIR to refute SPDC’s (Islam) own writings from the Koran, Hadith, Sunna, and history. Not the Nazi propaganda put out by front groups and paid leftist apologist at our universities that have been infiltrated and bought lock stock and barrel.
The reason I say a VIDEO DOCUMENTARY needs too be done is that many Americans are too lazy too read the Koran or are working too much overtime in order too survive so we can be taxed more too pay for illegal aliens social welfare. (Which is separate issue altogether) Then there is the problem of the book stores and other groups who only promote the liars and apologists materials. I had too have a B&N employee get me a copy of PIG Islam and the Crusades out of the storage area in the back of the store not on the sales floor. When I enquired about this the employee told me that since there arrival they have been kept off the sales floor and sold by customer request only. I expressed my concern being that PIG has (was still) been on the New York Times best seller and should be at the front of the store like all the rest. This is a common trend as many people know.
However if there is a FACTUAL VIDEO DOCUMENTARY about Islam (SPDC) made and backed by scholars (Spencer, Pipes, Bostom, Warraq, I. Ishaq, Yeor, Mark Gabriel and who can contend with PhD Gabriel being a professor at AL-Azhar University in Cairo Egypt, no Islamic apologist can get over on this small list of scholars), reinforced by Islamic scholars, Imams, and the ayatollah own words as well as those of terrorist. It can be showed on TV (hopefully the History Channel), Congress, the White House, Downing Street, the UN. Impossible you say!
Last I checked we still have the internet, and if this can be done after awhile the whole world can download and watch it. The MSM’s won’t be able too silence it, the truth will be known, and the SPDC likeness to Communism and Nazism will be known. THIS I BELIVE TOO BE OUR ONLY CHANCE. We just need someone or some groups too fund it. Any ideas JW readers?
A good opening for the start of the video could be something like. “Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?” Galatians 4:16 KJV
Jingoist: "You mean to tell me a god cant handle a cartoon.."
Koran says no such activities of the disbelievers can harm Allah. You ask a good question: If this doesn't harm Allah, what's the fuss?
Part of the answer is it is harmful to Islam, harmful to Muslim believers (actually, it's good for them, they just don't know it yet), and is therefore prohibited by Allah. The Koran says those who malign Muslims are doomed and those who cause (non-violently) disruption to the Islamic community (sedition) must be executed (33:60-62). In his statements, Hamadan was almost quoting these verses. And who organizes these demonstrations? Leaders in the Islamic community including clerics. They know the Koran.
Cpt,
1. I like the video idea. I know some very critical films/videos have been done on Christianity. If it's fair to criticize Christianity, why not Islam?
(BTW, does anyone know if there is such a film/video that takes an honest look at Islam?)
2. Regarding Spencer's PIG to Islam, I too found that the book was not on the shelf, but was kept in storage. It's a best-seller! Do these stores want to sell books or not?!
Lots of Karen Armstrong, John Esposito, etc., but not much in the way of critical works.
Picasso produced a painting called Guernica, which depicted in cubist format the death and destruction of war, with dead people, severed limbs, people running and screaming, etc. A Nazi officer looked at the painting and demanded "Who did this?" Picasso replied "You did."
It is Muslims themselves that have made the association between Mohammad and bombs, Mohammad and burka-covered women, Mohammad and swords, Mohammad and angry facial expression, Mohammad and intolerance/overreaction/excess, and so on. It is their continued reliance on the Koran and its traditions that produced the material expressed by the comics. The Muslims don't like what they see in their collective mirror.
Archimedes,
Thanks, yes it ridiculous that Islam (SPDC) is alway given a free pass by the socialist/communist left in our country and Europe.
The media may black us out, but if there was such a video that couldn't be contested b/c of it coming from all of the SPDC's writings (Koran, Sunna, etc..) If it hit the net in a torrent file,news group, P2P, its over for the likes of the cover up being done by the modern day Gerbils.
Arch,
Yes. It is the clerics, the Muslim 'scholars', and otherwise educated Muslims (those who've read the Qur'an, hadith and sira, and refuse to acknowledge the obvious truth that Islam is a combination of plagerism and fairy tale) who should be publicly challenged about and embarassed by the ridiculous nature of their beliefs, statements, writings, and teachings.
Add to that list the naive and the uninformed among us, along with the many Muslim apologists in the media.
I believe that every successful challenge to those beliefs damages their credibility with the Muslim base.
Give me a jingle at robertcorrow@sbcglogal.net and I'll address one of my chief concerns with you.
BTW -- how are you and DP coming on your project?
This is mostly OT, but...
http://danielattias.blog.lemonde.fr/photos/uncategorized/guernica_pablo_picasso.jpg
Re: Picasso's legendary "You did" statement.
One can’t be sure whether Picasso actually made this “You did” statement directly to the German officer…but this from wikipedia (reader beware):
“Picasso himself probably had contributed to Barr's and others' perception of him having behaved rather boldly throughout the war when, immediately following the liberation, he told an American correspondent for Newsweek magazine that on the day when a German army officer had recognized a sketch of Guernica pinned to the wall of his studio and had asked him, "Did you do that?," Picasso coldly had replied, "No, you did."”
I take part in a Muslim web discussion forum. And of course, I go there to observe and to learn. And to express my "kufr" opinion in a respectful manner.
A discussion there recently turned to the film "Submission" by Theo van Gogh (the murdered Danish film maker) with Ali Hirsi.
The discussion was very interesting. My point about "right to free speech" and "no right to not be offended" seemed to not sink in very well. "Submission" the film was viewed as an insult and as blasphemy. Doesn't matter that it expressed people's opinion, and was free speech.
Another poster suggested that blasphemy (the charge leveled against van Gogh's "Submission") might not be against national law, but that it breaks Islamic law. My response that I was not under Islam law, went unaddressed.
One poster suggested that, as for the Danish cartoons, the Danish PM was creating chaos, and hatred between Non-Muslims and Muslims (I suppose for not condemning the acts of the Danish newspaper). At any rate, observing that forum, and others, really is helping me to get a better view of some of the "workings" of "the Ummah".
Pardon me, that name should be HIRSI ALI.
Cpt,
I wonder if the policy of keeping Spencer's "PIG" is very widespread. I bought mine in Toronto Canada, where it was not out on display. Maybe Robert should know about this?
I also noted that other critical works (eg, Ibn Warraq's) were very hard to find. Bookstores seem not to be acquiring the critical works on Islam.
PRCS,
Thanks, I will email you.
DP and I are both pretty busy with other work, so we haven't been able to give this pamphlet idea the attention that it deserves. It requires quite a bit of additional research to back up what's presented.
Otherwise, I have "completed" my articles on 5:32 and 2:256, which are now posted at at a skeptic's website (see next post)
Here's the links to the skeptic's site. These go right to the articles in question...
Article on 2:256, "Is there Compulsion in the Islamic Religion? You'd Better Believe It!"
http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/guestessays/islam_compulsion.html
"Does the Koran's Verse 5:32 Forbid the Killing of Non-Muslims?"
http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/guestessays/islam_peace.html
Archimedes,
Absolutely, I believe this is the policy on Dr Spencer's PIG as well as his other books and other authors who dare tell the truth. (This is in NC)
I had the same problem with Warraq's "Why I'm Not A Muslim" at he same B&N, I tried too order it from the store and they told me it could take 6-8 weeks to arrive. So instead I ordered it from Borders on line too there local store and received it in 3 or 4 days.
jim,
Thanks. My experience has been the same, even in talking to non-believers who come from Muslim families. They think there is some degree of justification for the harsh Islamic response to "blasphemers" (Rushdie, Hirshi Ali, Van Gogh, etc.). The "us versus them" attitude, with the identification with the ummah, transcends the mere "religious" belief in Islam...which suggests that "Muslim" is more a nationality than a religion.
Regarding Spencer's PIG to Islam, I too found that the book was not on the shelf, but was kept in storage. It's a best-seller! Do these stores want to sell books or not?!
--- posted by Archimedes
They are afraid of Moslem protests or violent attacks against their stores or their sales clerks.
ISLAM MEANS PEACE ISLAM IS A RELIGION OF PEACE ISLAM IS VERY COOL
Never forget: One of the many power sources that Islam uses to spread itself is the implicit threat of direct violence against individual persons for having committed the crime of being perceived by a devout Moslem activist as having offended Islam.
Got it?
Alarmed,
Re: Islam's use of threat. I know. And the Islamists know exactly what they're doing. It only takes one or two high-profile murders to have a chilling, inhibiting effect on a huge population. I get into this, a bit anyway, in my "compulsion in religion" article (see links posted at 2:22 AM). (PLUG)
Threat is the single most important factor in the establishment and expansion of Islam: Fear/terror. Fear/terror leads to submission/surrender (or warfare, if we fight back). Islamists have been using threat since the beginning, making "examples" of critics and satirists, etc., as well as whole tribes, and this "making examples" is ordered by Koran 8:57 (it is also implied by the 33:57-62 passage, above--those guilty of sedition against the Muslims would be slaughtered, not only to eliminate the trouble-makers but to discourage other potential trouble-makers).
The reason Islamists have to use threat to establish, maintain, and spread Islam is simple: Islam is such a bad ideology that it cannot stand on its own merits.
I think what we're losing here, due to these threats, is the general reader who, not knowing much about Islam, nevertheless might see Spencer's book in the best-seller section while browsing. That's a huge loss of potential readers. (Of course, some bookstores in the U.S. and elsewhere may have it on display; I'm only speaking from limited experience).
P.S. Those who would threaten to blow up a bookstore would probably not object to Korans being sold there. The Koran, exposed in all its ugliness to the non-Muslim readers, is the book that is most damaging to Islam. We need to get people to read it! Too many people still assume that it's just another religious text.
Thank you Magazinet. Thank you for standing up for one of the west's most precious values. On a previous thread, numerous posters called for the (still) free western press to stand bravely beside Jyllands-Posten and publish these same cartoons, in defense of our freedom of speech. Thank you Magazinet, for hearing the call of the west.
PRCS, I sent you an email but it got sent back with errors. I'll try again.
Hey Fire Angel; Why do we have to be morons? I thought we were on the same team? Save the hostilities for the Islamofeces!!! Lets be friends. Can't we just get along? PLEASE!!! Think of the Children.