Exhibition will combat myths about Islam

Organisers plan to invite survivors of the Tube attacks to attend with a special commemoration on the day.

SICKENING!!!

From the posting: "Organisers plan to invite survivors of the Tube attacks to attend with a special commemoration on the day."

Yes, now that you survivors have been properly terrorized in phase 1, you are psychologically ready to submit to Allah in phase 2. Please step forward and discover Islam (or die, but we won't mention that part, for now).

Europe's biggest exhibition of modern-day Nazism will take place in Berlin on April 20 which is coincidentally Adolph Hitler's birthday in an effort to depict the party in a positive light.

Organisers plan to invite survivors of the Aushwitz to attend with a special commemoration on the day.

If I was a survivor of the tube bombing, I couldn't think of a better thing to do than be a patron at a lovefest for the cult that tried to kill me. /sarcasm off

here's a suggestion.

why not stand outside handing out leaflets.

on the leaflets are the Koranic verses quoted many times on jihadwatch.org - you know - the stuff about Mohammed cutting off hands, cutting off heads , stoning people to death. stuff like that. throw in the 9 year old Aisha.

nothing else - nothing that can be construed as inflammatory - just the verses.

no links to websites or anything like that - just the verses and nothing else. (that way, you can get around all the crazy 'race/religious hate' laws in the UK)

blockquote>The Mayor of London, Ken Livingstone, is set to launch the event which hopes to "combat the myths, misconceptions and misunderstandings of Islam".

But surely it was the suicide bombers who were misunderstanding Islam?

The exhibitions will be divided into three zones: "Discover Islam", which will feature famous mosques and a demonstration on a prayer platform; "Muslim Civilisation", which traces Islam's history; and "Muslim World", which covers Palestinian history, religious chants and a gallery of famous converts. Seminars ranging from democracy and jihad to Muslim gardening and agriculture will also take place.

This exhibition could fit into a small toilet cubicle. What's to exhibit? What "Muslim civilisation"? What "Palestinian history" - 1967 to the present day? What Muslim "democracy"? And since when have Muslims been any good at gardening and agriculture? Unless you count Iran's "Department of Agricultural Jihad".

The more this kind of thing is done, the more the obvious questions are raised, and the more will Infidels, even or perhaps esepcially those disinclined to look too deeply into Islam, begin to do so --with salutary results. Those who go to visit, and come across, as they inevitably will, sly examples of desinformatsiya, will -- like some of the survivors of those cunning but in the end largely absurd efforts at "Muslim Outreach" and "Muslim-Christian" and "Muslim-Jewish Dialogues," be not only receive their first immunization against Muslim propaganda (booster shots will be required), but some will come away shaking in disbelief.

Go to the exhibit. See for yourself. Take notes. Engage the exhibitors in "dialogue." Informed dialogue. Ask them about the Khaybar Oasis, about the slaughter of the Banu Qurayza, abot Ka'f, about Asma bint Marwan, about little Aisha. See the change in the eyes and the phony smile. Do this in front of others who may not know what you know. Share your references with them; bring cards with a list of five good websites and hand them out to other, possibly more unsuspecting, Infidels.

This exhibit, and all other attempts at mass propaganda, can be a Learning Experience. But not the kind the exhibitors had expected.

The Mayor of London is promoting this?! DhimmWit.

This Ken Livingstone will be sporting a hijab shortly I would guess....He is severely touched in the head.

Misconceptions and Misunderstandings? I have a misunderstanding as to how this jackass ever got to play Mayor........He should be booted out of office for his utter stupidity and weakness.

And, I hear, although he won't ever tell it to his Muslim masters, that he likes ham, pork skins, and beer, and consumes it every day.

Excellent Idea Hugh! Bravo.

I will wait anxiously for the outcome of such actions by our British Infidel Friends should they take your advise.

Knowledge is power.

this is the website for it

http://www.islamexpo.com

note the "Muslim Association of Britain" advert on the right - otherwise known at M.A.B. - who have strong connections to the Jihadist "Muslim Brotherhood". Yup - you read that right : Qutb followers.

Harrys Place has the lowdown on MAB:
http://hurryupharry.bloghouse.net/archives/2004/08/11/muslim_association_of_britain_exposed.php

My question to Mayor Livingstone : were the July 7th bombings not enough to send warning bells ringing in your head you fucking nitwit?

How much will it take? A Jihadi nuke blowing up in London?

Do we really need to get to THAT stage for the penny to drop ?

Engage the exhibitors in "dialogue."

very good points hugh. but i wouldnt know where to start.

does Mr Spencer or anyone else have a one page - print out and keep - quick step guide to what to say in such dialog? it would be a handy reference.

This exhibit... can be a Learing Experience.

The good muslimah will be shrouded in a burqa to ward off any learing.

Presumably the whole exhibition is at Alexandra Palace, not just the "stand-up comedy"? (Take my mothers-in-law. Please.) This is just a bus ride away for me, so I'm very tempted to go and stir up trouble. (Is it a coincidence that it isn't near a tube station?) Last time I went to Alexandra Palace there was a beer festival and firework display. Both are probably haram, the first certainly. This could be a starting point for "dialogue".

I have a misunderstanding as to how this jackass ever got to play Mayor........He should be booted out of office for his utter stupidity and weakness.

And made to do time in the Big Brother House.

If you plan on trying to spread an alternate message at this event, you had better be prepared to defend yourself.

Such blatant refusal to accept islamic culture wouldnt be viewed favorably by muslim attendees, and I would guess that there will some 'youths' there to make your life difficult.

I sure hope that the fleet of tanker trucks, filled with fresh whitewash, and now heading to this 'sweetness & light' ISLAM-exhibition, DO drive carefully through those narrow English streets.

That many thousands of gallons of masking liquid could erase half of London should even one vehicle tip at a tricky intersection.

C.A.I.R.-ful!

Without it, some of the real history of Islam might leak out.

Like their contempt for Art.

Like their contempt for women.

Or their contempt for unclean infidels.

Or their contempt for the developing human intellect.

Or their contempt for the natural world, in general.

Whitewash is coming!

Hold on, Muslims and your lickspittle lackies!

All will be hidden from the dhimmi public soon!

The following was taken from www.islamexpo.com as the goals (*) they wish to achieve... I would laugh if it wasn't so seroiusly NOT funny.

* Introduce the British public to Islam as a global culture and faith that spans continents, races and languages.

Hasn't the World been introduced to the religion of peace enough.

* Shed light over the Islamic civilisation’s great achievements in the various fields of knowledge; from science to technology and from art to literature.

Great achievements? Such as burning libraries because they held nothing new about the koran? Torturing/enslaving and murdering innocents perhaps?

* Combat the myths, misconceptions and misunderstandings of Islam.

Okay... So we are wrong because we don't understand that allah is the god of death and destruction?

* Create stronger foundations for Muslims to understand their heritage and develop their identity as major pioneers of human civilisation and an integral part of British society.

"...major pioneers of human civilisation" WTF? How absurd this comment is.

* Encourage positive interaction between Muslims and the different races and cultures of British society. Working towards a more open, tolerant and pluralistic Britain.

This says it all. Britan MUST CONFORM to islam, not the other way around.

* Promote multi-culturalism as an enrichment of British identity.

Same as above... Britan MUST ACCEPT islam.

Archduke,

http://www.co-jet.org/

There is a pamphlet section that should have something to suite your needs.

This site incidentally for all the newcomers around here, was created by fellow JW/DW'ers. All are invited to browse and contribute.

Moslem civilization?! I thought the English were sticklers about how their language gets used.

Ask them about the Khaybar Oasis, about the slaughter of the Banu Qurayza, abot Ka'f, about Asma bint Marwan, about little Aisha.

These questions are good, but would be inifinitely more effective if they were asked on prime time TV. Repeatedly.

January 23, 2006
Exhibition will combat myths about Islam
From the UK Independent, with thanks to Archduke.

Europe's biggest exhibition of modern-day Islam will take place in London a year after the 7 July bombings in an effort to depict the religion in a positive light.
The Mayor of London, Ken Livingstone, is set to launch the event which hopes to "combat the myths, misconceptions and misunderstandings of Islam". IslamExpo will consist of a series of exhibitions on Islam's cultural heritage, lectures, debates, films, stand-up comedy and workshops at Alexandra Palace. Organisers plan to invite survivors of the Tube attacks to attend with a special commemoration on the day.

It is hoped that the event will help to improve relations between Britain's 1.8 million Muslims and the wider community.

The exhibitions will be divided into three zones: "Discover Islam", which will feature famous mosques and a demonstration on a prayer platform; "Muslim Civilisation", which traces Islam's history; and "Muslim World", which covers Palestinian history, religious chants and a gallery of famous converts. Seminars ranging from democracy and jihad to Muslim gardening and agriculture will also take place.

The event has received the backing of numerous Muslim groups as well as the al-Jazeera news channel and the Greater London Authority If it is successful, it could become an annual event in London...

Posted by Rebecca at January 23, 2006 11:40 AM | Email this entry | Print this entry

Comments
(Note: Comments on articles are unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of Dhimmi Watch or Robert Spencer. Comments that are off-topic, offensive, slanderous, or otherwise annoying may be summarily deleted. However, the fact that particular comments remain on the site IN NO WAY constitutes an endorsement by Robert Spencer of the views expressed therein.)
Organisers plan to invite survivors of the Tube attacks to attend with a special commemoration on the day.

SICKENING!!!

Posted by: km at January 23, 2006 11:55 AM
From the posting: "Organisers plan to invite survivors of the Tube attacks to attend with a special commemoration on the day."

Yes, now that you survivors have been properly terrorized in phase 1, you are psychologically ready to submit to Allah in phase 2. Please step forward and discover Islam (or die, but we won't mention that part, for now).

Posted by: Stendec at January 23, 2006 12:00 PM
Europe's biggest exhibition of modern-day Nazism will take place in Berlin on April 20 which is coincidentally Adolph Hitler's birthday in an effort to depict the party in a positive light.

Organisers plan to invite survivors of the Aushwitz to attend with a special commemoration on the day.

Posted by: JanuaryMan at January 23, 2006 12:01 PM
If I was a survivor of the tube bombing, I couldn't think of a better thing to do than be a patron at a lovefest for the cult that tried to kill me. /sarcasm off

Posted by: John Sobieski at January 23, 2006 12:06 PM
here's a suggestion.

why not stand outside handing out leaflets.

on the leaflets are the Koranic verses quoted many times on jihadwatch.org - you know - the stuff about Mohammed cutting off hands, cutting off heads , stoning people to death. stuff like that. throw in the 9 year old Aisha.

nothing else - nothing that can be construed as inflammatory - just the verses.

no links to websites or anything like that - just the verses and nothing else. (that way, you can get around all the crazy 'race/religious hate' laws in the UK)

Posted by: archduke at January 23, 2006 12:15 PM

archduke:

the only problem with your advice is that this is the line of defence being advanced in Hook Hamza's trial. He wasn't inciting violence against the kuffars; he was only doing his Islamic duty vis a vis jihad.

Where are they now dept.:

Not that I think he's been missed by anyone, but the troll we knew as KingTolerance may have found a new blogsite to infest... ...the Religious Policeman. Either that, or KT has an alter-ego posting (posing?) as "Tolerance" reproaching Alhamedi for exposing the hypocracy and malevolent side of the ROP.

The IslamExpo website lists, amongst the various attractions, a "Family Fun Zone":

An exciting and diverse programme of games, amusing activities and live entertainment shows for families and children.

Some of the girls will be the same age as Aisha was when she had a rude awakening from playing with dolls.

There will also be a live concert featuring "sounds of the Muslim world". Screams, thuds, bombs, that kind of thing? And a conference with "leading academics and experts on Islamic affairs and international politics". No prizes for guessing what line they will take.

William The C: Great site!! I just love the picture "Priceless". A total laugh.

SP

Peter Tatchell's lot should encourage gay couples to walk around IslamExpo holding hands lovey dovey style.

This is just a bus ride away for me, so I'm very tempted to go and stir up trouble. (Is it a coincidence that it isn't near a tube station?) Last time I went to Alexandra Palace there was a beer festival and firework display.

Was that one of the CAMRA bashes? I used to enjoy them.
My abiding memory of Ally Pally was failing Part II exams there twice in 1976. I swear I had nothing to d owith it burning down the following year. It's not co-incidence that it is not near a tube station, the bus journey from where I was living at the time was very stressful, with 2 three hours papers ahead.

I have only one thing to say.
Education, Education, Education.

Folks,

In anticipation of the Islamist apologist propaganda that will, no doubt, tell us that Islam forbids the killing of “innocent civilians” and that Islam is a “tolerant religion,” we should be prepared to defeat the arguments in advance.

1.
I suspect that among the various major propaganda weapons to be used will be the partial quotes from the famous verse 5:32 (“if anyone who kills a man, it is as though he killed all humankind”) and verse 2:256 (“no compulsion in religion”). At these links, I expose what these verses actually say, in context.
http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/guestessays/islam_compulsion.html
I go through the compulsion in Islam, from Allah-approved mass-rapes to compuslory jihad.

http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/guestessays/islam_peace.html
I show that the Koran does not forbid the killing of Non-Muslims.

In addition, Abul Kasem cites the Islamically-respected tafsir of Ibn Kathir, which shows that verse 5:32 does not forbid the killing of non-Muslims. http://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/AbulKasem50808.htm
Another exposure of a term used in 5:32-33, “mischief/corruption,” by Sam Shamoun, can be found here (Scroll down to his discussion of 5:33) http://answering-islam.org.uk/Shamoun/badawi_tolerance.htm Mischief is, among other things, disbelief/opposition to Allah.

2.
Ibn Warraq provides a guide to debating Muslim apologists and provides some useful examples.
http://challenging-islam.org/articles/warraq-debate-muslims.htm

3. Clearly, Spencer’s PIG to Islam (2005) is a very handy reference to have on hand for attacking many of the Islamic myths. Bostom’s The Legacy of Jihad is also a valuable tool for countering the myths about Islam’s history.

4. The propagandists will try to claim that the good verses are being ignored by critics, who only cite the bad verses. This is demonstrably false. There are, according to an on-line skeptical annotation of the Koran, 403 verses showing religious Intolerance, 529 verses showing Injustice, 331 verses showing Cruelty and Violence, 51 verses showing disrespect or mistreatment of Women, and only 62 verses showing what would generally be considered Good moral values (Source, retrieved December, 2005: http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm ).

Further, there are 85 Suras from the so-called peaceful Meccan period. Actually, 88% of the Meccan Suras contain at least one “bad verse” (i.e., it involves cruelty and violence, intolerance/hate, or injustice). Fully 80% of the Meccan Suras contain no verses (zero) that would would be considered to reflect “Good” moral values. Even the good verses require further scrutiny (e.g., is paying the zakat “good”? I guess we’d have to see Mohammad’s/Allah’s accounting books!).

I watched in horror last week as the BBC's Question Time featured Salma Yaqoub -- a Muslim woman representing Galloway's Respect party -- calling for MORE immigration to the UK (READ: demographic conquest). The other politicians on the panel could not scrape low enough in their embrace of this notion and the glories of multicultural Britain.

The UK is finished and I shall not wait around for the final act in this Tragedy. My academic stint ends in less than 4 months and my next flight on Virgin (undoubtedly to be renamed 72 Virgins after its acquisition by Qatar Airways) will -- for the first time in 10 years -- contain no return coupon to London Heathrow.

"Learing" Experience, a typo that fit, now modified to "Learning," could also have done. For what does Lear do but learn, in the searing experience, the learing experience, of the play? He (and we who pull up a chair in the gods and eavesdrop) learn to question who is the Justice,and who is the Thief, and why Pomp should take physic by exposing itself to feel what wretches feel, and which daughter truly loves him and which cruelly insist "what need one?" and why all his own nothings will come to nothing. And this Learing Experience from Shakespeare's Teaching Company, will happen in short compass, accomplished by the time his poor fool is hanged. And as a bonus, everyone gets to find out what the fine word "legitimate" means.

Nonetheless, that word sporting its one-the-less n has had that held-back, but not deliberately omitted dammed n put, as it ought deliberately to have been there in the first place, damnably back.

"http://www.co-jet.org/

There is a pamphlet section that should have something to suite your needs.

This site incidentally for all the newcomers around here, was created by fellow JW/DW'ers. All are invited to browse and contribute."

thank you William the Conqueror - exactly what i'm after. much obliged.

Archimedes - > thanks for those links!

Charles Martel -> Salma Yaqoub is an apologist for terrorist Islamists and a Sharia law promoter. seriously deluded - and highly dangerous.

more here:
http://www.mabonline.info/english/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=400

and more here:
http://hurryupharry.bloghouse.net/archives/2005/08/18/antiracism_against_communalism.php

"highly dangerous" - let me qualify - i was speaking in terms of media influence. she popped up on Question Time the other night.

We badly need Mr Spencer on Question Time. For the sake of the UK's, now fragile, democracy.
The appeasement to these Islamist apologists is just breathtaking.

Presumably the whole exhibition is at Alexandra Palace, not just the "stand-up comedy"? (Take my mothers-in-law. Please.) This is just a bus ride away for me, so I'm very tempted to go and stir up trouble. (Is it a coincidence that it isn't near a tube station?) Last time I went to Alexandra Palace there was a beer festival and firework display. Both are probably haram, the first certainly. This could be a starting point for "dialogue"

Posted by Interested.

This is indeed an excellent opportunity to start a counter operation against the jihad. I see there are many people from this site from the UK and what sounds like the London metropolitan area, (Intersted, Granny, Certiorari there are many others). What is the possibility of you all getting together and challenging this farce.

What about having a collection on JW to fund this escapde. There is no reason that our people should be out of pocket here. I will pledge $50 to help fund and organise this operation, i.e help to cover travel expenses, printing material. Anyone else interested, maybe some of our more computer literate members could setup a paypal account where we could make donations.

Lets start fighting back!

Here are some more links.

Here I cite some of the verses relevant to the question of whether the Koran permits suicide attacks. Verse 4:66 does say that if the command "slay yourselves" is given by Allah (in fighting for Allah's cause), then it should be followed.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/009859.php#c164912

EXCERPT----------

4:66-77. (Believers) slay yourselves in Allah’s cause and you will receive a vast reward (Paradise). Note, al-Jalalayn’s tafsir, (4:66) “slay yourselves” (in Allah’s cause).

4:66 (Pickthall) “And if We had decreed for them: Lay down your lives or go forth from your dwellings, but few of them would have done it; though if they did what they are exhorted to do it would be better for them, and more strengthening;

{al-Jalalayn, tafsir: And had We prescribed for them: (the particle an, 'that', is explicative) 'Slay yourselves' or 'Leave your habitations,', as We did for the Children of Israel, they would not have done it, that is, what has been prescribed for them, save a few (read nominative qalīlun, as a substitution; or read accusative qalīlan, as an exceptive clause) of them; yet if they had done what they were admonished to do, of obedience to the Messenger (s), it would have been better for them, and stronger in establishing, [a stronger] confirmation of their faith.} Source: the altafsir website.

And from Arberry’s (literal) translation, “…But had We prescribed for them, saying, 'Slay yourselves' or 'Leave your habitations,' they would not have done it, save a few of them; yet if they had done as they were admonished it would have been better for them, and stronger confirming them…”

4:67 And then We should bestow upon them from Our presence an immense reward,
4:68 And should guide them unto a straight path.
4:69 Whoso obeyeth Allah and the messenger, they are with those unto whom Allah hath shown favour, of the prophets and the saints and the martyrs and the righteous. The best of company are they!
4:70 That is bounty from Allah, and Allah sufficeth as Knower.

--------END OF EXCERPT

On a different front, one can challenge the Koran's authenticity and completeness. At this link, the reports of Aisha and others indicate that the original verses pertaining to stoning and breast-feeding were eaten by a domestic animal!

http://answering-islam.org/BehindVeil/btv12.html
Perversion of the Quranic Verses.
Events Which Led To The Loss Of Some Verses
A Domesticated Animal Eats Qur’anic Verses

If they have an exhibition of Islamic achievements in science, math, astronomy, etc., it will be a very small exhibit.

Also at the exhibition:

The Knowledge Zone:

An exciting, interactive journey through Islamic culture, history and civilisation. Exploring a multitude of subjects that encompass art, botany, science, poetry, music and philosophy.

The Global Village:

A fascinating panorama of the colourful folklore, crafts, arts and foods of the Muslim world from Morocco to Egypt, from China to India and from Turkey to Nigeria.

The "Oh!"-Zone:

A rollicking roller-coaster of a romp through Mohammed's colourful - if controversial - sex life. No holes barred.

Actually, I made one of those up. But the other two are about things that are nothing to do with Islam; things that, if not actually haram, happened in spite of Islam, not because of it.

Was that one of the CAMRA bashes?

Yes. A good laugh it was too.

Good to see the typo, downgraded by me into something coarse, now elevated into something cultural. King Lear was one of my A level set texts, so I remember, pointlessly, lines such as:

"Poor Tom's a-cold"

"Out vile jelly"

"Kill kill kill kill kill"

"Never never never never never"

"Chill pick your teeth, zir. Come, no matter vor your foins"

And last, but not least:

"Lurk lurk"

I think I'm going to puke.

Non-muslim Brits better boycott this sham if they want their country to survive in the long run.

"This is just a bus ride away for me, so I'm very tempted to go and stir up trouble. (Is it a coincidence that it isn't near a tube station?)"

I suppose Ally Pally is the likeliest venue for this kind of thing - must be the biggest open air exhibition site. Olympia probably wouldn't accept Ken/costs too much.

I live nearby too. Perhaps I should set up a stall selling sick-bags. Intellectually less challenging than Hugh's plan - and I'd probably be arrested which might be good publicity for the anti-dhimmi side (though it probably would not get into the news)

Modern secular democracies with respect for individual rights could use a fair.

Civilization bares its neck to the oldest enemy.

No film at eleven. Ho-hum.

http://islamic-world.net/

current online poll:
"Do you think Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was a perfect human being?"

yeah - just stand back and think about the implications of that.

beginning to see how the Muslim idea of what is "morally" right is completely at odds with the Western view?

As for organising a counter-jihad demo at that Islamo Expo - i can only give one word of warning - do NOT let the BNP hijack it. And if there are any JihadWatch readers who are BNP members/supporters , please do us a favour and keep well away - you know the deal with the media in the uk - one whiff of "BNP" and the whole thing is branded as "racist BNP supporters".

I am disgusted and appaled at such a appologetic gesture.

Anyone would have thought the London bombings were 'all our fault' for not understanding "peacefull Islam"! I am personally sick to death with the appologetic nature of our society and how minorities are constanly being treated with kids gloves and appeased. How about appeasing the majority in this country who want Christian celebrations and traditions held up in such a light as the Islam expo?!

If there are to be peaceful demonstrations count me in!

Our friend Derek has a competing exhibition at the link below. I think it's lovely, and I wish it had a wider audience. Well, ehy, you could pass around the link yourself. Why didn't I think of that?

http://thestudyofrevenge.blogspot.com/

As for organising a counter-jihad demo at that Islamo Expo - i can only give one word of warning - do NOT let the BNP hijack it. And if there are any JihadWatch readers who are BNP members/supporters , please do us a favour and keep well away - you know the deal with the media in the uk - one whiff of "BNP" and the whole thing is branded as "racist BNP supporters".

Posted by: archduke at January 23, 2006 03:06 PM

All the more reason to get organized now. I am sure I am not alone in hoping that something is going to be done by the people of the UK.

Come on guys get organized, get an official sounding name, distance your self from the BNP and go for it.

Archduke is right.

I think it is important to reach the survivors, as well as the family members and loved ones of those killed. It's important to reach them, perhaps through an advertisement which provides a phone number or a web-site. Once they see what Islam is really all about, and what an insult this pro-Islam exhibition is to the victims of 7/7, they could provide important voices of opposition to this non-sense. A counter-demonstration would be a good idea.

Frankly, I hope the exhibit goes ahead, precisely because it provides us with a golden opportunity to expose Islamic imperialism and intolerance.

Let's keep the spotlight on Islamic intolerance.

List of some Koranic insults directed toward Non-Muslims. Why not distribute a leaflet containing this:

What the Qur'an Says About Non-Muslims

According to the Qur'an, disbelievers (non-Muslims): are “worst of created beings” (98:6), are “miscreants” (2:99, 24:55), are the worst beasts in Allah’s sight (8:22, 8:55); (Christians and/or Jews are) turned into “apes and/or pigs” (2:65-66, 5:58-60, 7:166); (idolaters are) unclean (9:28); “evil” is upon them (16:27), evil (2:91, 2:99); “wicked” (80:42, 9:125); the “wrong-doers” (42:45, 2:254, 5:45); evil-doers (42:44); they have no good in them (8:23); are “guilty” for disbelieving (45:31, 83:29); on the side of Satan and are fighting for him (4:76-77); of the party of Satan (58:19); Allah assigns them devils for protecting friends (7:27); they choose devils for protecting friends (7:30); are partisan against Allah (25:55); “enemy” and “perverted” (63:4); disgraced lives (22:9); hypocrites (4:61); have a “diseased heart” (2:10, 9:125); are ill (84:20); deaf, dumb, and blind, and have no sense (2:171); deaf and dumb and in darkness, Allah sends them astray (6:39); have no sense (5:103); a folk who do not understand (9:127); their fathers were unintelligent and had no knowledge or guidance (2:170, 5:104); are “a folk without intelligence”/ “most ignorant” (8:65, 6:111); losers who are deceived by Allah (2:6), and deceived by Satan (4:60); liars/they lie (2:10, 9:42, 16:39, 16:105, 59:11) “losers” (7:179); foolish and liars (7:66), liars and losers (58:18-19), false pride and schism (38:2).

Shouldn't this list disarm the usual PC-defences of Islam?

I will lend assistance in any way possible. If there is an organised demonstration please post it here. I want to help.

islam offends me
http://www.fomi.nu/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=22057&highlight=#22057

and dont forget to give Peter Tatchell a call or an email about it...

dig up every link you can find about gay rights in Iran/Saudi and send it to him.

broad coalition here folks. gay rights liberals all the way across to neo-con right wingers...

get ex-muslims involved.

get iranian exiles involved.

get feminists involved.

give the pro-Israeli folks a call.

heck - that IS our western civilisation. time to stand up and shout about it - loud and proud.

here's a suggestion. why not stand outside handing out leaflets. on the leaflets are the Koranic verses quoted many times on jihadwatch.org - you know - the stuff about Mohammed cutting off hands, cutting off heads , stoning people to death. stuff like that. throw in the 9 year old Aisha. nothing else - nothing that can be construed as inflammatory - just the verses. no links to websites or anything like that - just the verses and nothing else. (that way, you can get around all the crazy 'race/religious hate' laws in the UK)
Posted by: archduke

Archduke

Great suggestion. My only improvisation on this would be to organize as many survivors you can find, and have them distribute it. While the ordinary Brits distributing it could be hauled up for trouble, doing that to the survivors of the blasts would be a major PR damage for anyone who engages in it. Only thing it should take is convincing enough survivors who don't have a positive view of Islam to do it. How difficult would that be?

I remember some years ago, when the movie "Siege" came out, and I had gone to watch it. When I returned, I saw a leaflet stuck to the windshield of my car with all the claims about how that movie distorted Muslims. Since I didn't get to see the lovable Mohammedans who had left it there, I put it under the wheel of my car and backed out of the lot.

Good thing they didn't leave a Quran

legally will I be able to protest peacefully to this mess?

I am concerned I may be arrested for expressing my opinion (so much for free speach) without recieving free bed and breakfast care of 'New Labour'.. Any ideas if protesting is still legal?

"My only improvisation on this would be to organize as many survivors you can find, and have them distribute it. "

simple answer - they cant. apotasy is punishable by death under Islam.

their families would come under threat, since it is entirely possible , given the close-knit nature of Pakistani/Middle Eastern groups in the UK, that Jihadists attending the Expo would be able to find out who they are - unless they clad themselves in balaclavas.

Having John Smith from Tunbridge Wells doing it, would be a far safer option.

Remember Theo Van Gogh? Thats the situation we're living under right now.

"Any ideas if protesting is still legal?"

god knows. you could be arrested for "breach of the peace" - or acts that could LEAD to a breach of the peace.

i would inform the local British police station beforehand and get their advice. Might as well play safe - British coppers just hate unannounced protests. If its pre-warned, then they are usual ok with it - gives them time to organise a few coppers for your protection.

Thanks for that... I'm thinking a good way to protest is to be there as a Christian; have excerts from the bible showing a loving religion; the ten comandmants etc, and versus from the Koran. Let people choose for themselves?!

Infidel Pride - i might have misread you. by survivors i thought you meant survivors of Islam.

i think you might have meant survivors of the tube bombing.

even then , that would be dodgy. the Jihadists could easily find out who they are. and they are so traumatised anyway , that the thought of facing Jihadists agains would probably give them nightmares.

then again, i could be wrong.

ausbrit -> that's what i'm banging on about a lot - WHERE ARE THE CHRISTIAN FUNDIES?

we need them - BADLY!

SICK SICK SICK

I still feel I need to pinch myself so as to check this isn't just a bad dream. What must Ken Livingston be thinking?

hey - i'm left wing (well libertarian left wing - not Marxist) and even i find it utterly repulsive.

god knows how Tories feel about it.

write to Melanie Philips , Daily Mail, Evening Standard... this will slip under the radar unless we shout about it.

i could be wrong, but would i be right in saying that if Rudy Gulliani proposed something like this a year after 9/11 he'd be lynched by New Yorkers?

What must Ken Livingston be thinking?

Power, influence, post of Grand Vizier, a harem of my own....come the revolution.

Islam is a psychopathic religion, if for no other reason because muslims have no sense of shame.

If it was any other religion that was involved in the bombings, then members of that religion would be keeping a low profile or having a memorial on that day for the victims. Not muslims. They use that day instead to flaunt their religion.

Whenever muslims bomb and kill, we are then urged to see the "positive" side of Islam. Isn't that what George Orwell called doublespeak?

Well, what can I say. Presumably Ken and his gang will close down churches and synagogues during the festivities - as not to offend the delegates. What utter and supreme madness. No doubt George Galloway will be a guest speaker - rather depending that TV engagements will allow his presence. Anyway, I`m glad they`ve announced the date - I`ll make sure that I will be well away from Londonstan during the embracement of the forward thinking, liberal, and modernist religion. Dark roads lay ahead....... Any chance of the Arch Bish of Canterbury putting on a Christian road show? Fat chance. I`m fairly convinced now that the heads of CofE will be present with Ken tree-hugging Islam rather than supporting Christian ideology.

I really hope that London JWers can organise themselves to leaflet outside the expo as well as ask questions as Hugh suggested.

Having done a similar thing in Paris I can assure you that there will be many people there supporting your efforts.

Normal people are sick to death of Islam

Remember also that these muslims are on their best behavior and will be doing everything they can to appear 'moderate' so don't hesitate to be provocative.

I would also like to suggest the following counter propaganda.

Take a word document and set it out in 4 columns.

Then type a couple of lines of text with something like:

"Had enough of Islam?

You're not the only one."

Copy and paste this text so it fills up all the columns. You should get this text repeated between 40 and 60 times.

On page two, write the web addresses of a few of your favorite websites. (Of which jihadwatch will be number one)

copy and paste this text down all the colums, like you did for the previous section.

Now you have a sheet of A4 that can be printed double sided on your infidel office printer.

Cut it up and you have between 40 and 60 mini double sided flyers made from one sheet of A4. Both eco and inifidel friendly

You can leave them discretely everywhere. In tube trains, phone booths, pubs, public bathrooms. Mcdonalds.

You can be be leafleting while spending an afternoon with your PC family and they will not know a thing.

There thousands of these mini flyers that find their way all over Paris. Don't let the cheese eating surrender monkeys outdo the Brits in counter propaganda.

This islamofest is the perfect opportunity to counter attack.

Instead of booking booking one way tickets out of Heathrow and saying I've had enough. Stay, these dhimmiwits need all our help.

When just one person thanks you for expressing what he felt deep down abot Islam , you will know you are doing the right thing.

Remember, one person can leave thousands of these these things. Just think what 100 people can do.

"Muslim Civilisation" Seems a bit of an Oxymoron if you ask me!!

What must Ken Livingston be thinking?

Who sez he does that? As a practitioner of the politics of self-delusion, surely he hears a dial tone inside that thick walled noggin' of his.

"What must Ken Livingston be thinking?"

Thinking is the keyword. Islam does not mean, as so many would have it, "peace," it means submission. There is no thinking involved. In fact, thinking is violently objected to under the closure of the gates of ijtihad, the prohibition against interpretation of Islam canonical works since roughly 850 A.D. You and I are not dealing with thinking people but with irrationalists, committed and professional emoters. Islam is orthopraxy, a matter of right behaviour. There is no thinking involved or allowed. To assume that they're just like us only different is quite right. It's a matter of emphasis: HEY ARE LIKE US but different; or They are like us BUT DIFFERENT. To project our values on them is not only ignorance at it's most fatal, it's avoidable. Muslims do not think. They do not have a secular version of the concept of truth, for example. Howl? Rage? Stamp your foot? The fact is that the truth is the exclusive monopoly of Allah, according to the Muslim. Accept that people are different and go from there. Muslims are obviously and beyond dispute as entitled to all the benefits of life as is anyone anywhere; but they do not think rationally or independently, and there is no good to come from sentimentalising or lying or deluding ourselves. Ideologues such as Livingstone can do so because they receive vast rewards of all sorts for doing so. The rest of us take the tube and risk death for it. Think about that, and think about what you intend to do about it.

I continue to gaze lovingly at Derek's art work. It speaks to me and I hope others in a way that Muslims can relate to. It gives direct insight into the mind of a Muslim. Derek's work is visceral and immediate, and in seeing his presentation we can know what it is to live that immediately, and in a mind's world of Islamic temporal atomicallity we can see what is to be done. We can be our normal rational selves and then also see the irrational mind of a Muslim at work. Same but DIFFERENT. We have no right to belittle others as poor imitations of ourselves. Muslims do not see or live life the way rational people do. Livingstone and his fellow Left Irrationalists do not live as Rationalist do either. It's reality. Confronting them on their own terms is valuable and effective. There is no reasoning with the Irrationalist. Why bother pretending? I urge that we accept our Muslim cousins as they are and meet them on grounds they can grasp. Otherwise we waste our energies and delude ourselves as they continue to make further progress toward destroying or Modernity. I would suggest that we all confront the picture of Islam as it is:
http://thestudyofrevenge.blogspot.com/

Who's bankrolling this little get together? The British tax payer?

Checking the various apologist websites might be useful ahead of time, if one seriously intends to debate put the questions to these guys. Preparing 3 or 4 questions ahead of time is excellent, but being prepared for the likely rebuttals will keep the discussion lively. Skillfully done, this could be a great service to the public.

Does anyone know whether the event will discuss the "Golden Age" of Islam? Islamic arrogation of wisdom, culture and civilization to itself must be confronted.

sebastian : that was such a great suggestion i've blogged about it. hopefully this will be picked up by other bloggers. Such a simple idea! And non-violent too.

http://islamophobic.blogspot.com/2006/01/what-to-do-about-islamexpo.html

I do my mini flyers a litle larger, 8-10 to a page, with a border to catch the eye. But same distribution principle, I think they are at their most effective in books in the bookshop or public library. On paper rather than card is both cheaper and sits in the book less obtrusively.

Sharia? Taqiyya? Dhimmitude? You won't like it!

"I urge that we accept our Muslim cousins as they are and meet them on grounds they can grasp."

any suggestions on what those grounds are?

Great post Sebastian

It seems to me there are already plenty of people willing to do something posting on this site. Can't someone in the UK just start the ball rolling in terms of getting organized.

The more I read this story the angrier I get, I am so pissed right now. The sheer audacity of putting on a Jihad fest on 7/7 is amazing. I feel like I have been physically and mentally assualted.

To sit and do nothing would be the wrong thing to do. Granny it sounds like you have been running a campaign for a while if you stepped up here you could be Britains first heroine of the 21st century.

sebastien above @ 04:31pm: "On page two, write the web addresses of a few of your favorite websites. (Of which jihadwatch will be number one)"

word of warning folks - DO NOT PUT ANY UK WEBSITES ON THERE.

The UK does not have a constitutional right to free speech , as what you have in the USA.

If you start putting UK sites on there , that will only give the dhimmi government more reason to shut down those UK sites. (because of Muslim lobbying)

Stick with American sites. They are protected by the U.S. constitution.

Archduke, I suggest that we drop off portraits of the prophet wherever discriminating people congregate. That is the ground on which I think we can meet on terms agreeable to all involved.

km -> i get the feeling that there's a latent Pim Fortuyn style undercurrent in British society thats just WAITING to be tapped.

last election - lowest turn out ever. that says a lot.

the BNP is trying to be a Pim Fortuyn, but that'll never work - the BNP has a long long history of nasty fascism. A new Fortuyn style movement is needed (which unites both the left and right - against Islam)

getting to know the "positive side of Islam," including "palestinian history," seems to mean seeing the Jews and Israel in a negative way. I think it's time to put Ken-the-red-and-green in jail. After all he's a Nazi which he proved by inviting qaradawi to London more than once, and then there was the Jewish reporter who was insulted by livingston. Any friend of Qaradawi is a Nazi by definition but maybe, for ken's sake, we could call ken a Vichyite.
So this event is all for "understanding" or maybe for getting yourself brainwashed. More power to our London friends who may try to bring some light into the dank Alexandra palace, which may become for the occasion like a mushroom farm. You know how they grow mushrooms?
Don't Tony and his govt have any say over an event like this? Which side is tony on in this affair?

If the taxpayers are footing the bill --- but then again, what Moslem's bill does the Infidel not foot? --- then I suggest booths on these subjects:

Myth: Islam is a religion.

Myth: The word Islam meant peace in medieval Arabic.

Myth: Islam is a religion of peace.

Myth: Islam is not misogynist.

Myth: Islam does not promote slavery.

Myth: Islam is not racist.

Myth: Islam is not antisemitic.

Myth: Islam is not anti-Christian.

Myth: Islam stated mission is not to dominate the world (Moslems just want to live in peace).

Myth: Islam does not call for violence.

Myth: Jihad means an individual's inner personal struggle with a moral quandary.

MORE MOSLEMS MORE KORANS MORE HADITHS MORE SIRATS MORE ISLAM MORE!!

Set up one booth per myth to debunk. Decorate it with placards displaying sacred Islamic texts and historical references that do the debunking.

The muslims are testing you, they are testing your strength and their own.

If this blatant spit-in-the-eye garners no outrage from the public, the islamists will finally know the mettle of the english.

To hold such an event on that day, and to invite the bombing survivors to attend, is horrifying in so many ways. I can only hope that the British muster a wave of public revulsion and condemnation at this event, and present their emotion in a noisy and massive display.

trouble is -they are so brainwashed by the bbc (when was the last time you saw Mr Spencer on Question Time?), that i doubt it will happen.

the brits, like the dutch, are a pretty laid back , tolerant bunch of folks.

the brits dont get all angry - stiff upper lip, blitz spirit, and just keep it to yourself kind of thing...

the brits arent like the french - anger in public is not their forte. in a way, they are very like the Dutch.

it'll take a Theo Van Gogh incident to rile them unfortunately.

here's a comparision for our American friends - on the evening of 9/11, most New Yorkers headed out of town.

On the evening of 7/7, the pubs in central London were overcrowded - it was the Brits way of saying , "fuck them - i'm having a British pint, in London - and by god wont they change me"

this was in spite of the Met Police advising people to go home. Blitz spirit and all that.

Off topic but relevant to British attitudes and media coverage of Islam: I posted a while back an article about Hamza in which the BBC relied almost entirely on quotations from Hamza and asked, 'A fluke or progress?'

Well, it was a fluke. Consider this piece of trash reporting about Gaza, a supposed overview of the state of affairs in Gaza. The Israeli army in the bad guy, still; and all the problems, like unemployment, poor economy, and even hostility, are implicitly blamed on the Israelis, who only suffer a rocket attack a day or so, but no one is ever injured you know...

A whole article on Gaza, on the power struggles in Gaza, on life in Gaza, and the 'I' word, Islam, is not uttered even once.

More crock from the BBC.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4631222.stm

I'm certain the exhibits will be instructive and interesting-

Bomb making 101

Throat slitting (without getting blood on your shirt)

Basic aviation (learning to land is optional)

90 uses for Sarin and VX nerve gas.

Pedophilia for prophets

Should be an absolute gas (nerve, mustard, chlorine)

On the evening of 7/7, the pubs in central London were overcrowded - it was the Brits way of saying , "fuck them - i'm having a British pint, in London - and by god wont they change me"

Not just central London. North London too. Very close family came within ten minutes of being slaughtered by those bastards and my second or third reaction - acted upon - was to drink a defiant pint or three at my local, where the "f" word (fiddlesticks?) was bandied about with gay (and straight) abandon. Others were doing the same.

This "exhibition", this disgusting piece of apologetics and propaganda needs to be publicised. So far it's in the wishy washy "Independent". The tabloids need to know. The British tabloids are awful in some ways, but intelligent people control them. Take their headlines. Phwoar, look at the puns on that. (Eg - "Celebrity Big Blubber", "Papa Razi"). They can destroy Ken and his dhimmi initiatives.

First step publicise. Then see what happens with this "Expo". Then decide what to do with what's left of it. Easy for me to get there, less so for others.

km -> i get the feeling that there's a latent Pim Fortuyn style undercurrent in British society thats just WAITING to be tapped.

last election - lowest turn out ever. that says a lot.

the BNP is trying to be a Pim Fortuyn, but that'll never work - the BNP has a long long history of nasty fascism. A new Fortuyn style movement is needed (which unites both the left and right - against Islam)

Posted by: archduke at January 23, 2006 04:59 PM

I agree with you archduke, it is such a pity there are no options within the British political system at the moment who could do what you suggest. What happened to that Kilroy-Silk fellow has he not started up an independant party yet!

I still think a protest vote in favor of the BNP would be the most effective way of getting the other parties to address the Jihad.

Your mainstream politicians are selling you down the river. Todays story is a case in point, I feel sick to my very core because of it. It is such a slap in the face to the British public.

There is a post above mentioning what would happen if they tried doing such a thing in NY after 911. There would be total outrage over here, mass demonstration and the media would be all over it. Although the Bush hating liberal loonies would probably support it, but we all know who they support.

archduke-

If jetliners had flown into Big Ben and Scotland Yard on 9/10, and there had been no 9/11 or Madrid or Bali or Beslan to make each further attack less impressive (literally and psychologically) , I might feel more uplifted by the comparison with "blitz"-style Brit courage on 7/7. But I doubt they would have been so phlegmatic on that kind of MASSIVE ATTACK on such an hypothetical 9/10... and the bridges across the Thames would have looked like the line from Dante, via T.S. Eliot:

"So many, so many, I did know Death had undone so many."

But I hope this outrage by the Imperialistic Islamic Disinformation Brigade, U.K. Division, in London next Julydoes rile the English bulldog to bite Great Britain's dole-leeching, Fifth Column Muslo-ingrates.

Free (FAUX) one way tickets to Mecca should be distributed outside the event.

If Islam is so damned wonderful, it's time that its followers went back to their Saudi Arabian roots. And stayed there until the light of civilization slowly dawns upon their medieval deathcult.

I'm willing to wait until hell, or Mecca, freezes over before the now-Koranically-twisted would be allowed back out of their happy Caliphate.

If ever.

(Some mental illnesses are permanent and fatal, as Nietzsche found.)

OT, but I need to share. News still hot - Hamza said in the trial as follows: "What was important, he said, was that the tone and the ideas were koranically correct." Will the prosecutor try to read "between the lines" and attempt to miss the message???
On the losing front Sir Iqbal will not face charges.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4640542.stm

BBC "dhimmily" repeats the infamous idiocy of Tatchell's ' : "After the interview was broadcast, Peter Tatchell, of gay rights group OutRage!, said it was "tragic for one minority to attack another minority".

"Both the Muslim and gay communities suffer prejudice and discrimination," he added.

"We should stand together to fight Islamophobia and homophobia."

Can we really forgive those who do not know what they are doing?

On the losing front Sir Iqbal will not face charges.

You're muddying the waters here. Sir Icky is perfectly within his rights to condemn homosexuality. Equally, homosexuals are pefectly within their rights to condemn Islam, Christianity, or any religion. Free speech is indivisible. That is the law. The law has been properly applied.

Of course I disagree with Sir Yucky. That is not the point.

"Can we really forgive those who do not know what they are doing?"

we can. its up to us to throw some jihadwatch propaganda over to the office of Mr Tatchell.

like those gay teenagers getting hung in iran.

Tatchell's heart is in the right place - he's all for human rights. And he isnt ideological - he is PURE 100 per cent human rights.

He was fuming mad when Ken Livingstone invited that homophobe Yusuf al-Qaradawi over to London - so he's definitely not part of the dhimmi brigade. He is gay rights - end of story. And he's consistent with it.

In my view - a non-dhimmi ally.

Livingstone and "kill all gays" Qaradawi in London:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/graphics/2005/07/19/nterr19.jpg

interested -> i agree. Sir Ikbal Slimey said nothing worse than any Catholic bishop.

that's free speech. deal with it.

and therein lies our strength as a civilisation.

i draw the line though when somebody calls for the outright killing of Infidels.

here's a thought.

can we convince Christians , particularly fundie Christians, that Mohammed actually was the anti-Christ?

after all, he was a prophet who said one day that he had a message from God, and then the next day said - "err.. no that was from Satan"...

I would suggest that all JWers living near London meet up before this Expo and descend en masse. Before this, we should arm ourselves with all the relevant suggestions made above.

WHO'S UP FOR A MEETING AND CONCERTED ACTION?
BLUE SCARVES RULE OK

The jihad has three main aspects:

1. Violence and the threat of violence;

2. Social and political pressure;

and

3. Psychological struggle within the believer against disbelief (i.e., hatred of disbelief (49:7)).

The goal of jihad is the destruction of disbelief.

Each of these aspects goes together to produce people (believers) willing to carry out whatever actions are most expedient in the service of the ultimate goal of Islam, which is to destroy disbelief, even if that requires destroying disbelievers.

The attacks of 7/7 were simply one instance of the violent aspect of jihad. What we are seeing with these various propaganda exercises, such as the planned IslamExpo, is the exercise of the social-political aspect of jihad. The attacks of 7/7 caused destruction of non-Muslims physically. IslamExpo is simply one of a series of follow-up attacks on Britain. The groups behind this propaganda exercise are people who want to destroy the British people socially, politically, and psychologically. This IslamExpo is simply an expression of Islamic triumphalism and imperialism, disguised as some kind attempt at dialogue between Muslims and non-Muslims. It is an arrogant expression of Islamic power. It is an open mockery of those innocent people who died on 7/7.

The Muslims behind this event are putting on one face for the public, and are barely concealing the grins on their true face. Never forget that Muslims hate disbelievers; they are required to hate disbelievers (60:4) as a religious duty that is repeated many times and in many ways throughout the Koran. To not hate disbelievers is, for them, to be a disbeliever/apostate/hypocrite. We can rule out the idea that the Muslims behind this Islamist Expo have positive intentions. For this Expo to be a genuine positive endeavour toward peace with non-Muslims, they would have to reject the Koran. They won't or can't, without being disbelievers.

This is not a genuine dialogue. The organizers and even the hopelessly foolish mayor Livingstone admit that the purpose of the event is to present Islam in a positive light. In other words, this is not a dialogue. It is advertising. It is worse than advertising, because at least advertisers are bound by some laws in making claims. Islamists cannot say whatever they want about their ideology, with no restrictions whatsoever on what they claim. They can say their Korans promote peace and love, and hardly anyone (and no one in position of power) will bother to open the Koran to find that it actually contains a doctrine of hate and religiously-based warfare.

How will this Expo reduce the chances of future terror attacks? How will it reduce the chances that political Islamists will continue to make inroads and gain influence in Britain? How will it make life better for Britains? The fact that the answer to all three questions is "It won't" ought to clue people in to the probable motives behind the Expo.

The other probable reason behind the Expo, as has been pointed out by a poster above, is to carry out a test of the infidels' knowledge and willingness to resist the treason that is being carried out right before their eyes. If the Expo fails to provoke outrage and indignation from the majority of British citizens, the Islamists can relax because they can anticipate smooth sailing.

In their barely containable urge to celebrate Islamic power, I believe these Islamists have made a mistake. They have provided us with the perfect opportunity to educate the public in preparation for this event and to truly expose Islam.

Glad you said that Silvester:

All JW's who attend this, don't forget to wear your blue scarves.

I would suggest that all JWers living near London meet up before this Expo and descend en masse. Before this, we should arm ourselves with all the relevant suggestions made above.

WHO'S UP FOR A MEETING AND CONCERTED ACTION?
BLUE SCARVES RULE OK

Posted by: Silvester at January 23, 2006 06:54 PM

I agree come on the British contingent meet up and face the enemy. Its your country you are loosing here.

Danish Muslims are backing down from the Jylands cartoon confrontation. They are archetypal bullies: face them down and they will back away, a lesson we do not seem to have learnt yet.

TO THE BARRICADES! The Blue Scarf Brigades!!

"Islamists cannot say whatever they want about their ideology, with no restrictions whatsoever on what they claim."

A typo, sorry, it should say "Islamists can say whatever they want..." (because Koran and hadith give full licence for lying in the service of islam).

I suggest that once this Expo starts to be publicised, we start flyer-bombing everywhere possible with leaflets. Tube trains, bus stops, council offices, libraries, where ever, all suggestions welcome.

We bombard London about the whitewhashing of Islam, and we stand outside and hand out more leaflets, and also engage the 'islamic scholars' inside with awkward questions, within hearing of the general public.

We've got to do this!! We tell the truth and nothing but the truth, all from Muslim, ie. their own, sources - how can that possibly be islamophobic?

Let's not forget the enormous DAWA centre being built beside the Olympics.. I've seen no public discussion about this in UK as yet... why, apart from the BNP, is the UK SO PASSIVE??. I suppose under-reporting has a great deal to do with it.

I live in the UK, but I'm Irish, and yes, I am ashamed of Irish anti-semitism, but also, I suffer from absolutely NO post-colonial guilt and will fight to the death for my children and grand-children.

AUX ARMES mes amis!

Voltaire, t-ham, and I will be at our respective McDondals diners on Jan 26 from 7-9:00 pm to gather in those who will join us. You will know who we are because we'll wear blue scarves.

If the Muslims aren't afraid of holding a Nuremberg Rally in commemoration of the 7/7 murders, then how can we be afraid to go for coffee at McD.?

Europe's biggest exhibition of modern-day Nazism will take place in Berlin on April 20 which is coincidentally Adolph Hitler's birthday in an effort to depict the party in a positive light.
Organisers plan to invite survivors of the Aushwitz to attend with a special commemoration on the day.

Thats a ridiculous comparison. Don't know what history books you read from but Muslims are still a minority in England. If muslims held secret meetings people on this site would accuse them of plotting or making no attempt to integrate. Lets face it what people on this site want is an end to all muslim people on earth. Instead of constantly linking Fachism to Islam with sly turn-of-phrase and nothing else just admit that...

I still think a protest vote in favor of the BNP would be the most effective way of getting the other parties to address the Jihad.

...this site is scantly clad racism and if all muslims were(to borrow a phrase) wiped off the map or gassed, most of you wouldn't care.

TO THE BARRICADES! The Blue Scarf Brigades!!
HAHA why don't you lead a march on parliament while your at it or put a towel on your head and torch Big Ben. Seemed to work the last time someone in Europe wanted races out.

Any truthful historical account revealing the facts about Islamic conquests of places like the Indian subcontinent and Northern Africa and the death tolls resulting from jihad (hundreds of millions across the planet) should take care of THAT problem.

And of course, the British non-Muslim folk COULD read a Qur'an out of their local bookstore or library, could they not????? So why the hell don't they????

Unfortunately, the ulterior motive here is to lie to these people and therein advance taqiyyqa to facilitate Islamic conquest of the British isles. Which is being done right before our eyes.

"There's one born every minute."

And at least ten Muslims born every minute...

Wonderful to see "the blue scarves"(hail! hail!) are still meeting in Mc D's by the way. No wonder the extreme right never makes it out to march on the streets.

William The Crusader, may we link to your site for pamplets from the blue scarf page (when we get it up)?

To all Real blue blooded ,original Britishers:-
If you consider your self as a true representative of your heroic forefathers, many of whom have sacrificed their lives for the sake of their country,culture,and faith, preserving their descendants proud heritage of the English people,it is time for you to wake up.
You,as the present torch bearer of your entire country's cultural heritage,religion,proud history,should rise up,and safeguard those values,for your children's sake.
It is sad,but dangerous trend that our own people like the London Mayer,joining these encouchers of our proud country,for the sake of 'thirty dollors' like Judas.
Boycot this Exhibition if you are a true ,blue blooded Britisher.Tell your friends,families,and Church members to not only boycot these sinister showoffs by these Islamists,but to protest for the way they 'put salt in the wounds of the beraved families of the innocent victims of the Sub way bombings..The same Pakistanies, who killed your people in the sub ways,are protesting in Pakistan,shouting 'Death to Ameriaka'-for a few people died in the US bombing on the terrorist areas in Pakistan. Will they allow an Exhibition by USA to appease the effected families?They will bomb and kill ,and burn the whole Exhibition. If their people are so precious for them,and they can kill our people,and celebrate with an Exhibition?Britishers, how you can tolerate and sit?
Enough of your tolerance-Show your real patriotism now.

"Lets face it what people on this site want is an end to all muslim people on earth."

That's false. You are confusing Islamic ideology with Muslims. Lots of Muslims don't actually follow Islam as it is laid out in the Koran and supporting texts. I have no problem with progressives and reformists provided that they are honest about the problems in Islam, and, have no major problem with the significant percentage of Muslims who don't actually follow their Korans.

The people behind this Expo are political Islamists and propagandists who have no intention of getting into genuine dialogue. The stated objective of the Expo is to present Islam in a positive light. What more can I say? Do you think that, just as Bill Clinton spoke about his regrets over the Crusades, there will be Muslim leaders coming out and expressing regrets over the massive slaughter of Hindus (60-70 million over a 250-year period)?

One suggestion: Read the Koran before you start criticizing its critics! Here it is, free, online, annotated by a skeptic.
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm

Kazuya-

"Duh" moment for you.

ISLAM IS NOT A RACE. It is a totalitarian expansionist ideology masquerading as a religion.

Now run away and play, little one.

"My only improvisation on this would be to organize as many survivors you can find, and have them distribute it. " - Infidel Pride

simple answer - they cant. apotasy is punishable by death under Islam. - Archduke

Huh? I'm talking about the survivors of 7/7 - the very people being targeted by this "expo". Don't tell me they were all, or even mostly, Muslims.

Having them do it would make it more difficult for the BBC brigands to malign them, since nobody would be in a better position to bunch them with the London bombers then they.

In summer also blue tee shirts, silk scarves, jewelry, and eye shadow - get creative, just make it obvious.

Go UK blue revolution!

"My only improvisation on this would be to organize as many survivors you can find, and have them distribute it. " - Infidel Pride

simple answer - they cant. apotasy is punishable by death under Islam. - Archduke

Huh? I'm talking about the survivors of 7/7 - the very people being targeted by this "expo". Don't tell me they were all, or even mostly, Muslims.

Having them do it would make it more difficult for the BBC brigands to malign them, since nobody would be in a better position to bunch them with the London bombers then they.

Kazuya,

"Wonderful to see "the blue scarves"(hail! hail!) are still meeting in Mc D's by the way. No wonder the extreme right never makes it out to march on the streets."

People from across the political spectrum post here. I'm a left-of-centre non-believer. And religious-wise, there are Christians, Jews, Hindus, atheists, agnostics, and, yes, Muslims who post here.

BTW, there are demonstrations planned in the U.S. on Feb. 1, in protest of Islamofascism. Though, surely you would appreciate, people may be more inhibited in protesting against Islam because Islamist tend to kill those with whom they disagree (and they friends and family members). When far-leftists protest globalization, etc., they know they are at least dealing with police officers who are restricted by laws in how much force they may use.

The Koran puts no limits on how much force Islamists may use in pursuing Islam's goals (e.g., 9/11, 3/11, 7/7, Bali, etc., etc., etc.). The Koran does not forbid the killing of what we would call innocent civilians. Non-Muslims are regarded as guilty of the worst crime (disbelief), which is considered worse than killing a Muslim, and non-Muslims are not considered fully human, much less citizens.

"..this site is scantly clad racism and if all muslims were(to borrow a phrase) wiped off the map or gassed, most of you wouldn't care. "

i would care. and i would be one of the first ones to join you in blowing up the gas chambers.

to me - its a battle of ideas. the jihadists take the path of violence, but i want to take the liberation message in a non violent , peaceful way.

i think that you are under the influence of a death cult - it is up to me and thousands more people on the internet to get you out of that situation. i am certainly not calling for the killing of you because of your belief.

in fact - i look at you as a potential ally - once you get the death cult rubbish out of your head and join us in the fight for worldwide democracy and human rights.

If muslims held secret meetings people on this site would accuse them of plotting or making no attempt to integrate.

That Moslems regularly meet in secret and plot --- and who wouldn't given that they're planning to implement the shameful and immoral dictates of Allah --- has been factually established several hundreds of thousands of times over.

Lets face it what people on this site want is an end to all muslim people on earth.

No. We want to retain our freedom and to be left the hell alone. Go back to the worthless rock farm from which your parents slithered. Please. We're begging you. We're sick and tired of you. Go, and keep your scowling ever-bitching mouths shut on the way out cuz we're also sick of your endless bullcrap. And don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out, should you prove good enough to use it (you're not).

"Huh? I'm talking about the survivors of 7/7 - the very people being targeted by this "expo". Don't tell me they were all, or even mostly, Muslims."

i misread you - its a long thread i know, but above i said that i figured it out - i thought you were talking about survivors of Islam... my mistake.

Alarmed Pig Farmer - we need allies. apostates are our friends.

just remember that.

i think you might have meant survivors of the tube bombing. - Archduke

Yep, that's what I meant. I know that it would be dicey, depending on whether the people involved are still recovering, or are angry. I'd pick ones from the latter category, and have them do this. I'm not suggesting that they do it alone, and if they get threatened, it should be reported to the police.

would any of them be up for it? i dont know... i would think that they would be fairly angry - in fact TOO angry... might be counter productive.

Kazuya-

"Duh" moment for you.

ISLAM IS NOT A RACE. It is a totalitarian expansionist ideology masquerading as a religion.

Now run away and play, little one

Ahh come on. I was obvously refering to the Jews when I used the word race. If you want to be pedantic I think "totalitarian expansionist ideology" is hardly scientific fact. If everyone on this site payed as much attention to detail you could omit most of the rubbish in this site.
I'm pretty big. Might even learn to drive one of these days.

"Thats a ridiculous comparison. Don't know what history books you read from but Muslims are still a minority in England."

yeah - and there's more Irish than muslims in England

"If muslims held secret meetings people on this site would accuse them of plotting or making no attempt to integrate."
the mosques?

"Lets face it what people on this site want is an end to all muslim people on earth."

no - we want an end to Islam. Much the same way as people wanted an end to Communism and Nazism.

nothing to do with the people themselves. i just believe that Islamic followers are deluded.

"Instead of constantly linking Fachism to Islam with sly turn-of-phrase and nothing else just admit that..."

I refer you to my Nazi salute page...

http://islamophobic.blogspot.com/2006/01/why-all-nazi-salutes.html

nobody else here is doing Nazi salutes

Kazuya: "Thats a ridiculous comparison [between Nazis and Islamists]."

Not at all. There are some differences, of course. For example, Islamists in 1400 years have killed far more people than the Nazis did (and more, for that matter, than any other ideological group, religious or secular, in all of history).

Commonalities between Nazism and Islam (based on Koran and Hadith).

1. Explicit ideological statements calling for the extermination of the Jews. Also strongly anti-Jewish.

2. Imperialistic goals.

3. Supremacism of the in-group.

4. Demonization of non-members.

5. Willingness to use any means necessary to achieve the final goal.

Interesting facts: Some Muslims (e.g., Husseini were directly involved with the Nazis and Hitler (some Muslims actually joined the SS); Hitler expressed his admiration for Mohammad; the special insignia and clothing that the Jews had to wear in the 1930s Germany were of Islamic origin; Mein Kampf is quite a popular book in the Middle Eastern countries and in Turkey (which is almost completely Islamic); Hitler is wildly popular in Palestine (political candidates even use the name Hitler to boost their popularity)...that's what I have off the top of my head at the moment.

hitler was a catholic - the SS division argument against Muslims really doesnt work for me.

heck, i'm irish - and even we used the Nazi's to supply arms against the British.

the Muslim SS Division thing is a serious red herring. avoid it. cos the islamists can come up with looooaaaaaaads of European history to justify that SS muslim division.

In summer also blue ... eye shadow - posted by Rebecca.

Uh... you first. ;)

One mustn't forget blue cravats and ascots, too.

the "mohammed is a perfect human being" idea is a good starting point.

go after mohammed, rather than what his followers did - destroy mohammed, and you destroy Islam.

*cough cough*

Well in spite of the feathers I ruffle around here, I am rather like JW/DW's Pim Fortuyn, aren't I?

But sadly, there is only one of me, perhaps two that I know of. I am willing to help.
Feel free to email me. I am currently about to leave work, and don't have internet access when I am on the road, as I am now, but I will check back in a couple days.

archduke: Tommy Tiernan(a witty Irish comedian) once reffered to Britain as being "the country that invades half the world then wonders why some fuckers follow them home".

no - we want an end to Islam. Much the same way as people wanted an end to Communism and Nazism.

Fantastic. Only problem is the latter two are political ideologies with roots in the last few hundred years when Islam is a Faith/Religion that has been around for (you can save me a search)________ years(well a long time). Islam is a way of life for millions of people. Religion grows stronger under persecution. Short of culling the lot it's not going to go away any century soon.

As for your searing piece of investigative journalism there, I wouldn't give up the blogging anytime soon.

How about a counter-exhibition hosted not too far from the IslamExpo?

The IslamExpo folks would have a tough decision to make-- patronize their own self-congratulating function or abandon it to protest a function that dares to tell the truth.

The world is full of like-minded, but timid, people waiting for someone else to be the first to speak up. Even a small counter-"Expo" would probably attract a tidal wave of positive feedback when those cowed by the PC atmosphere realize they're not alone.

If you want to show Mohammed's smiling face, then go to Derek's site and print off a copy. Drop them around. And if you care to make a note, let the reader know that the little girl in the foreground is Mohammed's nine your old "wife." The women in the background are his other "wives." and the heads are of some of his victims. The Swastika? Look at Haj Amin's Bosnian Handschar Division of the SS. It's all accurate, if vivid. That's what we could use here. Spread the word by showing the face of Islam:
http://thestudyofrevenge.blogspot.com/

the "mohammed is a perfect human being" idea is a good starting point.
- archduke

|I agree. Discredit M. and you discredit islam.
Brilliant article on Frontpage about this.

Right archy. Thought you were a Brit there and you were trying to put down d'oirish or whatever still don't know what you meant by that but I guess the TT quote isn't applicable.

BTW, there are demonstrations planned in the U.S. on Feb. 1, in protest of Islamofascism.

Care to enlighten me on where and when? Im always interested in attending such events. Thanks.

Archduke,

The overall evidence is that Hitler was publicly Catholic but, privately, had no intention of following Catholicism as such. He did obtain the support of the Catholic Church, and other Christian leaders and scholars, but this by no means included all of them. In fact, the available evidence that I've seen indicates that Hitler's brand of "Christianity" was unlike any other existing sect. His "German faith" was sufficiently different from existing sects that eventually he had set up a special division to enforce adherence to his version (he had even written a "Gospel According to Adolf").

As for the Muslim SS, you may know more about them than me on that one, though I suggest you talk to Eliyahu here because I know he has looked into these issues extensively.

Anyways, this is off-topic...let's get back to ideas about countering this Islamist Expo propaganda.

And for all those JW's who go to this exhibition, don't forget to mention that between the 17th Century and the early 19th Century, muslims kidnapped 1 million Britains and Europeans and brought them to Algiers where they were enslaved, tortured, and killed.

"destroy mohammed, and you destroy Islam."
--from Archduke.

I only partly agree with this. Yes, we should focus on Mohammad. But we should also have arguments to show that the Koran itself espouses an ideology of hate, etc. The reason we need this is that many Muslims say they are "Quran-Only" Muslims, and they especially say this when they are confronted with troubling information about Mohammad that is gleaned from aHadith and the Sira. I have encountered this argument many times. Even if some of these apologists are not pure Quran-Only, there is still a tendency for some to go for the "Hadiths are overruled by the Koran" argument. In fact, I have some arguments specifically directed at apologists who try to use the Quran only (i.e., in some cases, the Quran is worse if the ahadith and Sira are discounted).

For Dead Infidel Walking:

http://www.unitedamericancommittee.org/rally.htm

An update on the Texas Rallies Against Islamofascism on Wed. Feb. 1st. We just received the time information from our Houston coordinator for the rally in Houston. 12:00 Noon.
Those of you who can, are encouraged to attend both rallies:

- Houston, TX
Tranquility Park, right in between the Federal Court house, City Hall, City hall's address is 900 Bagby
Time: 12:00 Noon
Contact: houston@unitedamericancommittee.org
Make it a family event, & also bring your friends

- Dallas
Intersection of Beltline and Addison in Addison, TX.
Time: 4:00PM
Contact: rsh1776@comcast.net

Texas Chapter of the United American Committee
http://www.txuac.com

"Exhibition will combat myths about Islam"
What myths?
That Islam is a "Religion of Peace" that has been "hijacked" by "terrorists"?
Or that the verses in the Q'uran that command Muslims to subjugate the world under Islam in the name of Allah and kill infidels are "misunderstood"?
I wonder if people wearing crosses will be allowed in?

Archimedes-

The Koran IS Mohammad.

You believe in IT, you are endorsing its author.

It is the psychologically appalling (and unconsciously revealing) diary of a megalomaniacal, revenge-fantasizing warlord. A shameless plagiarist, liar, thief, pedophile, murderer and, sadly, VERY lucky maniac.

(Until, if we are to believe the Hadiths, he was poisoned by a Jewess... maybe that's why they aren't such big fans of the Hebrews -from whom they also stole their entire 'religion', along with later cullings from the gnostic heretics wandering around the desert, spouting Arian, Pelagian, Monophysite, Ophite and other unorthodox 'Christian' beliefs, long-supressed among the Synoptic Gospel majority.)

You believe in the Koran, you are channeling the mad warlord.

The book and the madman are Siamese twins, joined at the demented brain.

Neither can be the basis of anything but a global theocratic police state hellhole.

Anyone with any sense of freedom MUST oppose both.

Kafir Nonbeliever, any chicken who get his feathers ruffled is getting off pretty easy.

Marguerite Yourcenar writes in Memoirs of Hadrian something along this line: "We may perhaps be forgiven for contemplating the silent cogitations of stones." Given the nature of the use of stones in this day and age, even stones would be ashamed.

I'm here shoulder to shoulder with you and yours and everybody else who faces the doom of fascist Islam and our ideologically insane enemies.

Ruffles and Truffles for Islam.

profitsbeard,

As I said, we should focus on Mohammad. I have plenty of material from the aHadith and Sira on Mohammad--all the major stuff: pedophile, terrorist, approver of mass-rapes, mass-murderer, you name it.

But we should also have the arguments ready when Muslims argue that only the Koran is valid. They believe that Mohammad was simply relaying, not authoring, the word of Allah. This is one of the major weaknesses of Islam--the idea that the Koran itself is the infallible word of Allah. This assumption has been attacked very effectively and convincingly, mainly by showing that the Koran is (a) incredible and (b) immoral.

We need to add more arguments to the mix to deal with all possible defences. In every argument I've ever had with a Muslim (and I've debated with many), they all claim that whatever hadith I present, no matter if it is "Sahih" Bukhari or Muslim (considered valid by mainstream Sunni scholars), they'll use the 'hadith is not necessarily valid' argument. (Likewise, for the Sira). Conveniently, this argument happens to apply to whatever hadith happens to portray Mohammad in a bad light. I have found that Muslim apologists are very slippery in debates, so it is necessary to argue all the major angles.

Although there is no factual basis for supposing the Quran is more valid than aHadith and Sira, it is nevertheless useful to be able to attack the Koran itself. And there's lots there to attack.

Consequently, I have prepared arguments to deal with Koran-Only Muslims as well as.

An outrage! for the victims and for all of London.

People of England stand up for your dead and for your past and history.

I think "totalitarian expansionist ideology" is hardly scientific fact.

That it is totalitarian is established by the lack of democracy, freedom, and pluralism wherever Islam prevails. To illustrate, our current project in Iraq might be thought of as attempting to graft a pretty face onto a hairy pimply ass oft wiped by a left hand.

That is is expansionist is established by surveying political maps starting from about 625AD up through today. Pay especially attention to the north and west of the Indian subcontintent. 70 million dead and counting, Allahu Akbar!

That is is an ideology and not a religion is established by the fact that Islam's scriptures call for immorality and evil, and proclaims global subjugation as the main goal.

If we start from the premise that Muslims are rational we've lost. No argument is going to get them to change their collective minds. Get over the idea that Muslims are rational and that if only you could explain things to them they'd see the light and become sensible. Not gonna happen. Give them credit for being who and what they are as they are rather than what we are but different. They are Irrationalists from birth to death, and no logical argument is going to sink in. Not ever. They're not stupid, they're Irrationalist. One or two in a million doesn't impress me. Islam is a fascist mind-trap on irrationalism. There is no point discussing it with them.

What i REALLY want to do...
Is to get togehter one picture from each and every
Islamic terrorist Killing people
Islamic terrorist Beheading people
Islamic terrorist Suicide bomber
Islamic terrorist Rapists..
Islamic terrorist Tourturing

Then if you could find enough room
Tape them all toghether in a straight line

Right down the middle of the road in front of this evil Islamic love fest..

With a huge sign PAINTED ON THE ROAD

ISLAM
The religion of PIECES...
Here is the PROOF..

But even then i know what the muslim apologists would say..

Its ALL a PLOT...
Its all a zionist conspiracy to make islam look bad..

As if all the
Videos
Audio
Pictures
Articles.
TV shows
Printed banners
And the tens of thousands of civilians KILLED BUTCHERED by this FALSE DEMONIC FILTH called Islam

Wasnt enough evidence..

sonofwalker-

Bullseye.

Arguing whether it is angels of djinns inhabiting the head of the pin missing the fundamental fact:

-faith is not based on anything but a pre-existing prejudice for your 'truth'.

It cannot be demonstrated "wrong", because it doesn't have any basis in reality, reason or truth. Only power.

And must be answered by a stronger power.

Reason is that power.

It split the atom.

It will outwit the dogmatists.

But only when it is in enough pain to get serious.

3,000 dead on 9/11/01, and about as many in smaller attacks since, were not agonizing enough.

The West insists on experiencing a devastating attack before it will strike back in a manner that will force Imperialistic Islam to come to the same conclusion as Imperial Japan:

-these sons of bitches are even more dangerous than us!

I hope for that day to hit sooner than later.

The global death toll will be lower- on all sides- the faster this cult of expansionistic 'holy' murderers is defanged.

(I gave up arguing with the sanctimoniously deaf years ago. All they hear is gullible weakness.)

Its ALL a PLOT...
Its all a zionist conspiracy to make islam look bad..
Posted by: jingoist at January 23, 2006 10:48 PM

Jingoist you forgot ‘Bush is evil’

A splendid idea though, somehow though I get the impression that if you tried this in the UK you would be arrested and put in prison for inciting racial hatred, free speech no longer exists in the UK and truth is no defense any more.

I know most people from the UK are going to be a sleep right now but it bothers me that despite this massive slap in the face I haven’t seen any concrete steps to organize some kind of opposition to this Islamolovefest.

This is so sad, a real indication that the multiculturalists have a firm grip on the reigns of power and are not going to give them up before the green crescent flags flutter over parliament.

Hey, P. B., glad we're in contact agian.

sonofwalker-

Back at you.

Earning a sordid buck has taken me off 24/7 into a different millieu for a while. (Wish me luck that my 'creative' daywork pays off handsomely, so I can tithe Jihadwatch, and continue to fund the my own small subversion of the Cult of the Pedophile Prophet -with "KNOW THE DEADLY FACTS ABOUT ISLAM" stickers/pamphlets out here in the naive infidel boondocks.)

And good to be back in the fray.

Hmm, let's see, every Islamic country on the face of the Earth is a disaster, let's try and portray it in a positive light. Haccckk coughhh. Over 300 million (do the math) radicals.

The main audience of interest, as far as I'm concerned, is non-Muslims. They're the ones I'm interested in reaching, where I think a difference can be made. They (non-Muslims) can and should be reached through reasoning, argument. We live in democracies. Once a clear majority of non-Muslims (in U.S., Britain, Canada, etc.) is educated as to what Islam is all about, then pressure will be put on politicians to act. The general public still does not believe that Islam presents a serious threat. They still think it is a religion of peace, etc., due to the successful propaganda campaigns of the Islamic apologists. Until people understand that Islam is the key problem, they will not interpret a terrorist attack correctly. Four years after 9/11, most people still don't understand that Islam is the key problem. Those are the people we need to reach.

profitsbeard,

"Arguing whether it is angels of djinns inhabiting the head of the pin missing the fundamental fact"

Who is arguing that?

Doesn't "Livingstone" mean "Brown Tongue" in Arabic? while "ken" couldn't possible mean "know" or "knowledge" in any language.

...arguments that are played out in the public discourse concerning Islam have to be convincing to non-Muslims. Islamic apologists cite some verses that, cropped and clipped, make Islam sound good. We present the full verses (and explain what they mean) in order to expose the deception and educate the non-Muslim public (not the Islamic apologists, who are probably beyond reach). Warraq, Spencer, Sina, and so on, all present arguments and evidence that exposes Islam to non-Muslims. When they do so, they defeat arguments presented by Muslims, even though the main target audience is non-Muslims.

Hi Archimedes,

I think sonofwalker is largely correct: "If we start from the premise that Muslims are rational we've lost. No argument is going to get them to change their collective minds."

Your impressive research and cataloguing skills with regard to Islamic texts should mainly be used against Westerners who are either ignorant of Islam or semi-knowledgeable (worse than the former). Only a tiny handful of Muslims will be amenable to rational demonstration; we must assume the vast majority are too far gone in their mass hypnosis/psychosis.

Pepper,

Actually, this is what I've been saying all along, and I've said it again in my two previous posts. Let me be clear, again: My primary focus is on educating the non-Muslim majority. But I think some people get the idea that I'm trying to convert Muslims. (Some Muslims do turn apostate for good reasons (e.g., they finally read their Korans), but that's not my focus). The approach I intend to take with my website, when I get it set up, is the same approach taken by Warraq, Spencer, Sina, et al. You will notice that all of those authors address the arguments raised by Muslim apologists. That has to be done. To convince non-Muslims, one has to demonstrate to non-Muslims, using arguments and evidence, the problems with Islam.

I think most people find Warraq and Spencer, in particular, clear, readable, presentable to a wide audience, and eminently reasonable. In other words, when I read them, I am quite rightly concerned about the sanity of the Islamists, not about the sanity of the person talking about the Islamists. Sane, reasonable, fair, morally indignant...This is the approach we need to reach that majority mass of non-Muslims who are amenable to reason.

We increase public knowledge and open the eyes of non-muslims to the truth about Islam. Then see the post by Stendec last week regarding Islam's definition as a geo-political ideology, NOT a world religion. espectially not a "great" world religion. (OT, how do they define "great"? Numbers? Wealth? And who are "they"?)
The ultimate end being that Islam ranks with ideologies such as nazism, loses its privileges, suffers opprobium, and that should be the beginning of a very slippery slope.
It sounds simple but it will take hard work. Blood, toil, tears and sweat.
It has been interested to see the debate and encouragement overnight.
I have 50gm of azure boucle, now where did I put the Max Factor baby blue powder?

Pepper,

I almost forgot: Here's a couple of articles I managed to get posted at a skeptic's site. These articles address two major propaganda tools of the Muslim apologists (again, directed toward non-Muslims who have little or no familiarity with Islamic ideology). Abul Kasem was kind enough to read them over for me before hand, and thinks they're sound. Let me know what you think, if/when you get the chance. (You may have seen this material before in earlier drafts).

Addresses the "No Compulsion in Religion" quote.
http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/guestessays/islam_compulsion.html

Addresses the "anyone who kills a man..." quote.
http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/guestessays/islam_peace.html

Granny,

I'm glad we've been informed of this event so far in advance. This gives us time to get ready. I'd like to see the British public so well-informed by the time this event occurs that they regard it with as much disgust as do we, right now.

Hopefully JW/DW will repost/update this topic from time to time.

Rebecca,
Contact susanp re this, but I'm sure it's all right.

Archimedes
We'll meet again.

Granny,

you are so correct - "Islam is a geo-political ideology, NOT a world religion. espectially not a "great" world religion. (OT, how do they define "great"? Numbers? Wealth? And who are "they"?)"

I will try to come over to London for this and join you people, is there anyway we can get organised, I for one would be proud to stand by my fellow Brits in contesting these lies, especially the cheek in doing this one year after 7/7.

"Islam's definition as a geo-political ideology, NOT a world religion. espectially not a "great" world religion. (OT, how do they define "great"? Numbers? Wealth? And who are "they"?)
The ultimate end being that Islam ranks with ideologies such as nazism, loses its.."

It is a world religion and I suspect they mean great as in "great" Britain; and here we go again with the lazy Nazi comparisons.
-Find something universally disliked
-Link it to what you are trying to discredit
-Hey presto Muslims are Nazis

"Blood, toil, tears and sweat"

Hmm sound familiar. Now the battle of Britain is a struggle everyone agreed on, why not link it to our own?

I had this conversation on another web site, true there is the belief in God (Allah) so you could argue it is a religion, but after that it is just around the cult of the doings and sayings of Mohammed, who is defined as the perfect man, but is anything but. Its a cult around Mohammed, note that Muslims get more angry if you say something against Mohammed then when you say something against Allah, so its a cult.

Nazi's is a lose description of define something evil, some people will call me an Nazi because I find Islam offensive, that is lazy too.

Muslims = Nazi's is just a lame point to argue over, its a nasty evil killing cult which uses fear to control its followers, and war to reward its devout followers, all one has to say is that there is nothing good in it, as there was nothing good in Nazism.

I might well pop over myself. You will recognize me in the blazing London summer by my designer blue scarf.

Any ideas which christians will join this one way dialogue ? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4641066.stm

Looks like they need a little help understanding.

If anyone can find their email addresses it would be an idea to send them some polite info about Islam and more specifically on the Barnabas Fund.

Interested, you have said:

"You're muddying the waters here. Sir Icky is perfectly within his rights to condemn homosexuality. Equally, homosexuals are pefectly within their rights to condemn Islam, Christianity, or any religion. Free speech is indivisible. That is the law. The law has been properly applied."

I am not muddying the waters.

Firstly I do not consider the following statement issued by Sacranie:

"Certainly it is a practice that in terms of health, in terms of the moral issues that comes along in a society - it is. It is not acceptable."

a harmless exercise of free speech.

Secondly have the gay community said in any public interview that "the ptactice of Islam is not acceptable"?
I wonder what would happen if they did...

Archduke, as for Mr. Tatchell I can only take his words at face value. Thanks for giving me more background, but is it sheer naivety or gross irresponsibility on his part? With what you are telling me about Tatchell you seem to invalidate the first assumption so it is only the second one that I am left with.

I have today awoken to find the idea of holding "Islam Expo" on the 1st anniversary of the London bombings is true...I had hoped it was merely some sick fancyful nightmare; unfortunately it is not!

Due to the sickening nature of this celebration on such a tragic day, when the country should be in rememberance for the innocent victims of the Muslim terrorist who concucted their plans in 'British Mosques'! I am preparing my own (perhaps sickening to some) exhibition!

I know of, and am searching out cardboard coffins! I plan to buy myself one, drape it with the British flag. I am sure I will find another coffin bearer to assist me!

This would be a pungent reminder of what this 'peaceful' religion is all about!

indeed - tatchell, despite decades of evidence from Iran and Saudi, has never explicitly gone after Islam itself.

quite frankly, i dont blame him - he'd be the victim of some nutter Jihadist if he did, given his media prominence.

ausbrit:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Announcement/601081013.htm

sharia islamic law in action.

Sebastien, I hope to see you there.

Stopover in Tokyo:

"We should stand together to fight Islamophobia and homophobia."

or "support your friendly Halal butcher" or "A-soles of the world unite!"...

Just spent (involuntarily) two days at Frankfurt Airport. Heavy infiltration of kaftans, coffee-filters and hijabs, bilbabs, jilbabs: You name it!

Also a new Berlin mosque is due to open: (Rocket-launchers) Minarets 37.1 meters high, 9 meters higher than permitted! For 'peace' and a false understanding of 'tolerance' the Germans are being hoodwinked into acceptance. Who else would get away with s*#t like that?

77 mosques so far up and running in the fatherland, another 123 being built.

This thing is called "Sehitlik-mosque"- any idea what it means?

Likewise Daffersd. Will you attend the Blue Scarf Protest on Thursday?

http://www.claudereichman.com/larevolutionbleue.htm

@sheik yer'mami

IIRC, it means "Martyr".

kazuya is mightily concerned about Muslim lives. Then he ought to bear in mind that more Muslims are murdered by fellow Muslims than by either Jews or Christians or Hindus, separately or together. Think of the 130,000 approx Muslims slaughtered since 1990 in the civil war in Algeria. Think of the thousands killed in Iraq by what is called the "insurgency" or the "resistance." Then in Pakistan you have regular slaughters of Shiites by Sunnis. Why doesn't Kazuya realize that the Muslims are in more danger from each other than from Western people or Jews or Hindus?

Now about Muslims and Nazis, Muhammad `Inayat Ali Khan met Hitler and conversed with him at length about jihad. This was back in the 1920s in Berlin. He reported that Hitler was much interested in jihad. Then, in the Middle East, Arabs-Muslims oppressed Jews, Christians, and other non-Muslim groups for more than a thousand years. During the Holocaust, Haj Amin el-Husseini, British-appointed Mufti of Jerusalem, took part in the Holocaust. Why do you insist on seeing the Muslims as innocent? Is it because you see the British as guilty of oppressing Ireland? OK, but does that make the Muslims innocent? In fact, British officials promoted Islam. So in your support for the Islamic jihadists you are doing what British officials did in various countries, in Israel, in Sudan, in India, etc. Are you aware that Prince Charles is very pro-Islam? That Arnold Toynbee was pro-Islam? Do you think that because the British had an empire that Pakistani immigrants and UK-born Muslims have a right to blow people up on the London subway? The Arabs had an empire too. Do the peoples who were conquered by the Arabs have the right to blow up civilians in Riyadh or Taif or Mecca for that matter?

On Hitler's conversations with Khan, see JMS Baljon, Modern Muslim Koran Interpretation [Leiden: Brill].

I'm not concerned about Muslim lives any more than anyone elses and I pride myself on hating and liking humanity on without bias.

Why do you insist on seeing the Muslims as innocent? Is it because you see the British as guilty of oppressing Ireland? OK...

Here you ask a question, make an assumption and answer it all at once without reference. I'm giving out about the ridiculous way in which you defend your opinions. A lot of countries gave some measure of support to the Nazis but thats not the point.

Sebastian, if I lived in Paris yes, but alas I don't. Hope it goes well.

Firstly I do not consider the following statement issued by Sacranie:

"Certainly it is a practice that in terms of health, in terms of the moral issues that comes along in a society - it is. It is not acceptable."

a harmless exercise of free speech.

"Harmless" is a loaded word, but an exercise of free speech is precisely what it was, and one which, provided it doesn't incite violence or racial hatred - and it doesn't - he is, both legally and morally, fully entitled to make. His views offend me, as they offend you, and offend gays, but that is not the point.

The Gay and Lesbian Humanist Association have likewise exercised their right to free speech and criticised islam, thus:

"There are two terms that, increasingly, annoy us: Islamophobia and moderate Muslims. What we'd like to know is, first, what's wrong with being fearful of Islam (there's a lot to fear); and, second, what does a moderate Muslim do, other than excuse the real nutters by adhering to this barmy doctrine?"

They are also entitled to exercise free speech. Nothing has "happened to them". Polish Infideless and others so quick to criticise the UK, please get your facts straight first.

Interested, I would be interested where this quote comes from and if it was voiced nationwide like Sacranie's interview.
Anyway, we obviously differ in our understanding as to what the right to free speech entitles us to say. Please do not forget that the road to gas chambers started with intolerant words. And it was Heine who prophesied: "Where they burn books, they will, in the end, burn human beings too". Nobody believed this in 1933. Is not the borderline crossed if you say that the practice of one social group (notabene a group with no intentions to hurt anybody or preach its superiority) is branded as unacceptable (and this is in my opinion a heavily loaded expression). Furthermore Sacranie did not provide any evidence in support of his harsh words about homosexuality that would render his opinions rational and justified. On the contrary it would be dead easy for The Gay and Lesbian Humanist Association to prove that what they have said about Islam was not simply islamophobia but a fair criticism.

Polish Infideless, what you are saying, effectively, is that free speech should be curtailed if it offends you. Free speech should only be curtailed if it incites violence, which Sacranie's words - no different from the opinions of many fundamentalist Christians - do not.

"Where they burn books, they will, in the end, burn human beings too".

This is an argument in favour of free speech, rather than against it. Censor free speech you don't like and you can't complain if free speech that you do like is also censored.

Hi Everyone,
All this debating for and against the expansionism of the Islamic faith doesn`t add up to a hill of beans. It is going to happen, and this religion or `way of life` will predominate. Once Turkey joins the E.U hand-out club, there will be no way that the situation can be reversed, or indeed that we will all live in peace and enlightenment forever and ever. This is an EU endorsed programme, and Mr Blair (the next Secretary General of the U.N - I kid you not) thinks it all rather positive and cosy. Yes, it saddens me, yes, I fear the complete loss and suppression of free will and our cultural heritage. I would rather live side by side in peace with other faiths, but the strongest and more aggressive will always predominate - it`s nature unfortunately. The Christian church is weak and increasingly unpopular with the `christian` majority, and many worshippers are leaving the church in droves. In fact, some have even converted to `Allah`, but that`s another story. It`s fine to sit here and whinge, but we are all the authors of our own self destruction. How many of you voted Labour back in the heady days of 1997? Quite a few I suspect, but no-one will admit to it now. Anyway, two years down the line and you won`t be able to discuss Islam on the web because New Labour will block any site that doesn`t embrace their views. I think the best thing to do is to bury our heads in the sand and pretend that it`s all gone away. That`s really what this forum adds up too. All talk, no political lobbying. Please feel free to copy and paste text from this post to destroy my arguement. Time will tell.

Muslim mosque=Army barracks!!!

Muslim mosque=Army barracks!!!
Good man. Sterling contribution there.

This is an interesting article that touches on freedom of speech in Britain, or the lack thereof.

http://www.amconmag.com/2006/2006_01_30/taki.html

Susanp, not just, or even mainly, in Britain. Facts wrong, yet again, by Brit-bashers.

The problem here is that the whole world is up in arms over Pamuk’s arrest but is not exactly breaking down the doors of Irving’s prison. So, do we write Free David Irving and Orhan Pamuk, or do we drop the former because it makes for better public relations? Does freedom of speech mean freedom of views we find acceptable or the views we find convenient? Is selective free speech free? Is free speech confined to causes with which we agree? As someone wrote, “the unpopular and odious have their rights as well.”

Couldn't agree more. This was my point.

Kazuya, interesting that you should mention the Nazis. While Muslims are not Nazis per se, they share some of the goals that the Nazis had, i.e., the extermination of the Jews. Google Haj Muhammed Amin al-Husseini, the Grand Mufti of Palestine. He was made President of the Supreme Muslim Council in Palestine by British mandate in the early 1900's and immediately went on a killing spree to exterminate Jews. When Hitler came into power in the 1930's al-Husseini allied himself with the Nazis and lived in Berlin for most of the war aiding Hitler by helping control the Nazi's Muslim brigades in Africa and the Balkans. Not many people remember al-Husseini, but everyone has heard of his nephew who took over from him after he died. Husseini's sister died when the boy was 4 years old and he adopted his uncle's political views as well as his uncle's hatred of Jews. When he took over his uncle's position as leader of Palestine Muslims he dropped the family name al-Husseini and adopted the nom de guerre Yasser Arafat.

Interested, I agree that the odious and unpopular should have their rights, but if it's true that muslims can freely express their "religious" beliefs, which oppose homosexuality and many other practices the West is tolerant of, why can't Christians express their religious opposition to homosexualty? According to this article, which may or may not be accurate, that is not the case in Britain.

And at least ten Muslims born every minute...

Aw pythagoras, now why'd you wanna go and bum me out like that? Now I got to drive all the ways to the downtown clinic and re-up for those damned antidepressants.

France is holding a demonstration against its dhimmi politicians and loony Left supporters, a demonstration organized to express disgust at the government and media for covering up the attack on 600 train passengers by a mob of rampaging Muslims on the rails from Nice to Lyon, Jan. 1 this year. Enough is enough.

In support of them, and to meet each other face to face to begin organizing our own resistence, we are also donning blue scarves on Jan. 26, Thursday.

T-ham, Volatire, and I are showing up at our respective McDonald's diners from 7-9:00 pm to sit and wait and greet anyone who shows up. Today we're pleased to announce that Baltic Waves will also join us.

There's no great feat involved here. All we ask is that you go to the most public of public places and wear a blue scarf in solidarity with those who are fed-up with Islam in our world. You can do the same in your town or city. There is a McDonald's near you, it's certain. Stand up for Human rights by sitting down for a few hours on Thursday evening. Wear a blue scarf. Meet some friends and chat them up. Baltic Waves writes:

Anyone for Park Ridge, IL on Northwest Hwy /or on Rt 14, in Cary IL (across from the Jewel)?

Kazuya, interesting that you should mention the Nazis.

Everbody here keeps mentioning the Nazis. They've been gone since the 40's but a lot of the passionate statements on the board cooly link the two.
see:http://home.att.net/~hugh2you/jargon.html

While Muslims are not Nazis per se..
Per se?!!! They're not! You can make all the comparisons you want but the fact is they aren't.
Supposing your(collective) theories on Muslims taking over the planet are based on any evidence, this site is just full of selective sixth hand articles, armchair commentary, unrealistic conclusions, mountains of poorly phrased hysterical sensationalism and good old fashioned racism.

I won't be posting here again. You can go back to agreeing with each other and trying to plan your scarf revolution in McD's.

Interested, accusing me of being a Brit-basher is completely baseless. Have I made any comparisons between i.e. Poland and Britain in this respect? Has this been in favour of Poland? I am a British citizen, I live in the UK and whatever happens hear concerns me and my family as much as anybody else living here. Your comment is unfair.
Defining the limits of free speech is a matter of the law in a given country and there seems to be a lot of disagreement on this issue in the UK nowadays (vide The Religious Hate Bill).
I was trying to draw your attention to the fact that incitement to violence is just a step lower on the ladder that culminated in gas chambers and this is me speaking from the historical perspective of the part of Europe I come from. One of the books burnt in 1933 on Berlin's Opernplatz, after the Nazi raid on the Institut für Sexualwissenschaft, was the works of Heine and it was not destroyed because of its contents, but because Heine was a Jew. The point I am making is that violence towards books may lead further, and the limits of what can and cannot be said involve similar dangers. It is a matter of gradation.
You , however, claim to know better.

Kazuya,

The claim, at least my claim, is not that Islamists are Nazis. My claim is that they share certain key elements. One of the key elements is hatred of the Jews, plus explicit statements calling for the subjugation, expulsion, killing, and extermination of the Jews. What do I base this on? Well, we already know what the Nazism had these anti-Jewish elements. What about Islam? I base what I say on the Islamic texts themselves.

First point: The worst crime in Islam is to disbelieve, engage in polytheism, ascribe rivals to Allah, or reject Mohammad's validity as a prophet. The Koran accuses Jews (and Christians) of all of the above.

Mohammad claims Jews worship Ezra, 9:30, and are therefore guilty of polytheism (shirk) and Jews are called disbelievers (9:32). See skeptics annotated quran).

Christians and Jews who fail to convert to Islam: 9:29: “Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by his messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay tribute readily, being brought low...”

The policy is, and always has been, convert, subjugate, or kill.

Jews and Christians condemned to hell/cursed/doomed/bad/evil/turned into swine or apes, etc. (2:61-66, 4:48, 4:50, 4:116, 4:47-52, 4:55, 4:157, 4:160, 5:12-5:13, 5:37, 5:51, 5:53, 5:58-60, 5:72-73, 5:79, 7:166, 9:29-35, 18:52, 33:26, 59:14, 98:1).

Jews will face Allah’s wrath because they made friendships with those who disbelieve (5:80).

Must convert to Allah only, or else be doomed (2:62-65, 3:85). Note that 3:85 refers explicitly to the Islamic religion as the “Surrender.” Jews are wrong-doers who will face a painful doom unless they believe in Allah (4:160-161).He who ascribes partners to Allah is lost, as if a bird has snatched him out of the air and taken him away (22:31). Mohammad (Allah) says Jews look ugly and they are foolish (62:5). Jews are greedy (2:91), and are evil-livers (5:59).

Extermination of the Jews in Order to Bring About the End Times.

Sahih Muslim, Book 041, Number 6985.
Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: The last hour would not come unless the Muslims will fight against the Jews and the Muslims would kill them until the Jews would hide themselves behind a stone or a tree and a stone or a tree would say: Muslim, or the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the tree Gharqad would not say, for it is the tree of the Jews.

This passage was also quoted by Osama bin Laden, May 28, 1998, in an interview with John Bell of ABC News. (This Hadith is also still quoted in Palestinian media). Notes: Multiple variations on this (“rock and/or trees”) report occur, and are given by different reporters.

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177.
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, reported:
Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: The Last Hour will not come until the Muslims fight against the Jews and the Muslims will kill them until the Jews will hide themselves behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say: Muslim, the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him; but the Gharqad tree will not say this, for it is the tree of the Jews. Hadith number in Sahih Muslim [Arabic only]:5203

Expulsion of Jews and Christians From the Arabian Peninsula.

Sahih Muslim, Book 19, Number 4366: Narrated Umar ibn al-Khattab:"Umar heard the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) say: 'I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslims.'"

More anti-Jewish statements

Allah turned Jews into apes and rats, Sahih Bukhari, vol. 4, book 54, no. 524

Priests and Rabbis do “evil work” (5:63). Many Jews guilty of evil conduct (5:81). Jews act like Christians when they are around Christians (5:82).

Some of them (people of the scripture) are believers, but most of them are evil-livers (3:110), wretchedness is upon them because they disbelieved, slew the prophets wrongfully, were rebellious and transgressed (3:112).

Muslims won’t get hurt fighting them (the people of the book), who will turn and flee and afterwards will not be helped (3:111)

The Jews and Christians flung the scripture behind their backs and gained evil (3:187)

Christians and Jews who disbelieve scripture are the worst creatures in Allah’s sight (98:6) and will receive hell-fire

Kazuya,

"this site is just full of selective sixth hand articles, armchair commentary, unrealistic conclusions, mountains of poorly phrased hysterical sensationalism and good old fashioned racism."

We don't have time to disabuse the prejudices of every naive individual who happens to look at the site and immediately conclude that it a conglomerate of racists, etc. (I happen to have a lot of this stuff catalogued). If the above material is not enough for you to show that Nazism and Islam (based on the Islamic texts themselves) are virulently anti-Jewish, what would convince you? Need we also go through Mohammad's mass slaughters, executions, assassinations of Jews (all of which are described in the Islamic texts themselves)? Check out the faithfreedom site or answering-islam. Do some research before you make an ass out of yourself in the comments section of this site.

here's a thought.

can we convince Christians , particularly fundie Christians, that Mohammed actually was the anti-Christ?

after all, he was a prophet who said one day that he had a message from God, and then the next day said - "err.. no that was from Satan"...

Posted by: archduke at January 23, 2006 06:46 PM

Archduke... we 'fundies' are already quite aware of who mohammed was, is and will always be. Make no mistake.

Kazuya

Your off your head... I suggest you real alittle on the subject prior to jumpin on the PC bandwagon! Saying words such as "racist" may make you feel liberated, more important and of superior intellect to the rest of the us, but, perhaps you ought to open your eyes to reality; or convert to Islam!

Spread the word by showing the face of Islam:
http://thestudyofrevenge.blogspot.com/

Oh, Son of Walker... that is truly a terrible picture. Not sure how I'd react if I saw Jesus' face in that pic. Of course, I wouldn't go on a murderous rampage like muslims do, but what is the point of something so repulsive? I'm a fellow Kafir, but still... woah.

I'm not concerned about Muslim lives any more than anyone elses and I pride myself on hating and liking humanity on without bias. Posted by Kazuya.

Well done, you despicable example of a humanbeast. Allah will be proud of you.

You seem to be saying that whatever the Nazis may have done is irrelevant to today. If so, then do you defend Israel when charges are made that Israel is acting like the Nazis did, or that Sharon [not my hero, btw] is like Hitler? If the Nazi crimes are irrelevant then do you say the same when charges are made against Israel? Further, masses of people are being massacred in the Sudan, now. What are doing about their plight? Do you deny that Sudan is an Islamic state and member of the Arab League? Thus, is Islam [and Arab nationalism] irrelevant to the Sudanese massacres? How about Algeria? Is Islam irrelevant to the massacres there?

One of my points above is that the formation of Nazism was influenced by Islam. Does that tell us something about Islam?

"You" in the post above refers to kazuya.

Just Linda, I do understand how you feel about Derek's vivid graphic above. If it were Jesus or Lao Tzu or nearly anyone else I wouldn too have been offended. However, Mohammed, who is some kind of caricature from Islam itself, is so fetishised by Muslims that I felt that a good smack in the pretenses would be just right.

Islam is a poligion that is based soley on Irrationality as epistemology. One cannot know other than through irrationalism. Reforming Islam is worthlessand destructive of our energies because no one can debate with Muslims. It's not possible because Muslims must be, if they are Muslim, irrational. That is not to suggest Muslims are stupid. That might or might not be the case, but to a man they are irrational. One cannot reason with them. Thus, I posted a very disturbing but historically accurate graphic of Mohammed as graphic. What his is like as an historical figure will have to wait for Spencer's latest effort, if Spencer is indeed following through on his idea of a bio. What Spencer might do is paint word pictures that are similar to the graphic Derek created visually. Yes, it's disgusting. Yes, it's true. And yes, Muslims will find it offensive.

Need we build anything like a bridge of understanding between Islma and the reso of the world's people? I would ask why? Why demaean ourselves by sentimentalising a murderous cult? If we honestly face the nature of Islam and its adherents we will see that the most terrible plight is that of Muslims themselves, and that any honest person would agree it is ashameful and intolerable that children should be twisted into it from birth. To stop it, even at the point of the sword, as it were, is a gift to the whole of Humanity, and for that we must necessarily accept suffering.

The graphic is consciously meant to offend deeply. But it doesn't. They do not care. Muslims have not raised even one comment against it. Why? Because it's too honest. They care not to rage against what they know is real, preferring instead to rage against the most innocuous graphics from Denmark. That is a realm of psychology I cannot comprehend.

I am glad to see you here again. My best, and thanks for your past efforts on our collective behalf.

I won't be posting here again. You can go back to agreeing with each other and trying to plan your scarf revolution in McD's.

Posted by: Kazuya at January 24, 2006 02:43 PM

mmmmmm is this because he just took a pasting in his debates.

Funny how the PC defenders are quick to jump in here and use the word racist as if that is the only way to engage in any intellectual discourse.

Then they disappear....probably after they have looked into the validity of the facts and statements regarding Islam, posted on this site.

It is a pity that even in the face of established facts and reasoned arguments he would rather cling to his own multicultural PC biases than realize what a traitor he is being and the danger he is putting the rest of us in.

It is a pity we couldn’t save this unfortunate fellow but at least he will not have to listen to his fatuous statements.

Back to the most serious point on this board what about some organization against this sick proposed meeting on 7/7, please tell me some in the UK is doing something other than posting on JW.

Vive La blue revolution.

Some of us will do something to express our displeasure about the condition of the West as it is now thanks to -- us.

Volatire, t-ham, Baltic Waves, and I are going to sit at McDonald's diners on Thursday evening from 7-9:00 wearing blue scarves, partly in solidarity with our French fellows, partly in the hope of attracting fellow anti-jihadis for coffee and a chat. So far we'll be spread out from Sydney, Australia to New York to Chicago to Vancouver, Canada. If you and others opt to join us in this semi-silent protest/meeting then leave a location for others to join you. If it attracts Muslims, that'll be a first. They don't plan antyhing according to others but act on whims and self-derived schemes without regard to others. Is it certain that you won't meet Muslims at McD. who are enraged that you protest their jihad? No. But, you stand as great a chance or better of being murdered on the tube-train.

If people are afraid of Muslims, afraid to sit in public and be known as antagonistic to violent Islam, then Islam wins because fear rules. If we cannot safely sit in McD., the Western equilavent to a mosque, a public place open to all for nearly nothing, then we are confessing that we are not safe anywhere. Go with a friend. Go with ten friends. Demand the police accompany you. We have to ask just how serious is our fear of Islam.

If we cry out "What if.... What if...." then we are lost already because what if will already be what is. If we are not free to act, then our freedo to pretend is on its way out as well.

I'll be at McDonald's at Main st off Teminal ave. on Thursday from 7-9:00 pm., Vancouver, Canada.

I agree that the odious and unpopular should have their rights, but if it's true that muslims can freely express their "religious" beliefs, which oppose homosexuality and many other practices the West is tolerant of, why can't Christians express their religious opposition to homosexualty? According to this article, which may or may not be accurate, that is not the case in Britain.

The Christian anti-gays and the Muslim anti gay were both investigated. No inconistency, no double standard. Investigate is what the police do following a complaint. It does not mean that the person is charged with anything or that anything happens to them.

In other words, Susan and Polish Infideless, Christians can express their opposition to homosexuality and gays can express their opposition to Islam. You both seem to be labouring under the misapprehension that this is not the case. In fact the law has been applied logically and consistently. Please pay attention to the facts, and to the logic of the way in which the law has been applied, instead of leaping to conclusions about waves of dhimmitude sweeping from Land's End to John o'Groats.

In my view, even investigating is over the top - the complainant, whether gay objecting to "homophobia", or Muslim objecting to "Islamophobia" should have been told to get lost. But I believe in free speech, whoever it offends, stopping short only of incitement to violence.

I was trying to draw your attention to the fact that incitement to violence is just a step lower on the ladder that culminated in gas chambers and this is me speaking from the historical perspective of the part of Europe I come from.

Please read my posts properly. I have said repeatedly that incitement to violence should not, in my opinion, be protected in the name of free speech, and, futhermore, that it is currently a criminal offence. Saying that homosexuality, or Islam is evil, wrong, disgusting, immoral, whatever, is not the same as saying kill gays or Muslims. One is legal and should be, the other is illegal and should be.

I have said repeatedly that incitement to violence should not, in my opinion, be protected in the name of free speech...

You may regret that statement that day in the future when it's time to rise up against the Moslems to save freedom by violent opposition to Sharia.

Remember, Islam has an inherent speech advantage because the ideology's scripture itself repeatedly incites to violence --- all jealously protected by way of Islam's fake status as a religion.

APF - there is a distinction between law enforcement and vigilante "justice". For someone to say "kill the Muslims", would be wrong, and should be illegal. However, if it can be demonstrated that Muslims are themselves inciting violence by preaching the Koran, then there are laws in place to deal with that. Abu Hamza is on trial for doing just that. If Sheikh Faisal (two or three years ago) is to be taken as a precedent - he will be put away for a long time.

Abu Hamza is on trial for doing just that. If Sheikh Faisal (two or three years ago) is to be taken as a precedent - he will be put away for a long time.

I very much hope so

Pity "Kazuya" won't be here to read this as his statement "Supposing your(collective) theories on Muslims taking over the planet are based on any evidence," prove that he has no first hand knowledge of the Q'uran or the hadith which state precisely that or the Muslim belief that they will rule the world and one day "the rocks and trees will cry out to Muslims passing by "There is a Christian (or a Jew) hiding behind me! Come and kill them!". But then Kazuya demonstrated he wasn't interested in learning what Islam really says or teaches, just passing judgement on the critics of Islam. He was impotent, unable to debate the facts and ran off like a coward. So in the end we have just another Muslim apologist trying to pass themselves off as an impartial observer. (Bad Crusaders! Don't you feel guilty about the horrible things you're saying about the poor Muslims? Never mind that the things you say are true.) But then the "real" Kazuya was defeated by Heihachi and thrown into the mouth of a volcano twenty years ago (fictional video game character). This one was just as much of a loser.

Wow I dont think I have seen a thread on JW this long for a while and as I got the first in I will make it 200, kind of has a nice symmetry to it.

I am willing to frequent a McD's on a thursday in the bay area if anyone is intersted, although I would much prefer a bar. The alcohol should keep away the muzzie fanatics.

km, I get the strong impression that since "Kazuya" used a pseudonym of an action character from a video game for his screen name, he may not be old enough to get into an adult establishment.

Bohemond_1069 a very good point, his/her arguments were pretty lame the kind of thing you would expect from a child all emotion and no rational thinking.

Although they have left, deep down I wish they hadnt, every individual we cen get involved in debate is better in the struggle against Islamofascism.

Even if they personally dont agree other people that come to the site might be swayed by the arguments. Generally I am really impressed by the quality of posts and the depth of knowledge displayed on this site.

The problem is though a lot of it is preaching to the choir, 99 percent of the people on this site are going to agree that Islam is fundamentally flawed. We need to get those who know very little about Islam or are Islamoappolgists or Islamists themselves.

For someone to say "kill the Muslims", would be wrong, and should be illegal.

Until the revolution starts.

Er, you don't think that this historic mess that we're now climbing into won't end with street fighting, do you?

I mean, after the Sharia is installed, at best we can hope for a putsch by what free military units remain, and then widespread fighting with militia mustered from those of us who have exercised our 2nd Amendment right to bear arms.

MORE KORANS MORE HADITHS MORE SIRATS MORE MOSLEMS MORE ISLAM MORE!!!

These Moslems are pushy. Real pushy. History shows that they only understand the language spoken from the business end of a barrel.

The denouement will be violent. Quite. Got to be.

APF, you know, it's funny, but the Q'uran says "kill Infidels" and that seems to be neither wrong nor illegal according to the Mohammedans and their apologists......

I think the most effective response to this travesty would be a well-publicized boycott. That would send a very clear message to everyone that is a party to this outrageous celebration honoring the attackers of last July. There are many ways that this tragedy could be somberly remembered, but to celebrate the cult and ideology that motivated it is not one of them.

I cannot believe the SURVIVORS are actually going to participate in this circus!

For someone to say "kill the Muslims", would be wrong, and should be illegal.

Until the revolution starts.

Er, you don't think that this historic mess that we're now climbing into won't end with street fighting, do you?

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at January 24, 2006 10:05 PM

Very astute observation APF, this whole process of raising the issue of the RoP is inevitably going to lead to bloody exchanges, probably less so here in the US than Europe which has a much larger and more militant Islamic population but it is inevitable.

I am of the opinion that the sooner the blood letting starts the better it will be for everyone. Islamic states already possess nuclear capabilities lets deal with them now before their technological capabilities get to advanced and their numbers too great both here and in Europe.

The comments you are responding to are indicative of the fact that many people dont really realize how far down the path we are towards all out combat.

We are going to get the chance to face the umma down real soon. Keep your ammo well stocked and guns well polished.

For someone to say "kill the Muslims", would be wrong, and should be illegal.

Until the revolution starts.

Er, you don't think that this historic mess that we're now climbing into won't end with street fighting, do you?

Posted by: Alarmed Pig Farmer at January 24, 2006 10:05 PM

Very astute observation APF, this whole process of raising the issue of the RoP is inevitably going to lead to bloody exchanges, probably less so here in the US than Europe which has a much larger and more militant Islamic population but it is inevitable.

I am of the opinion that the sooner the blood letting starts the better it will be for everyone. Islamic states already possess nuclear capabilities lets deal with them now before their technological capabilities get to advanced and their numbers too great both here and in Europe.

The comments you are responding to are indicative of the fact that many people dont really realize how far down the path we are towards all out combat.

We are going to get the chance to face the umma down real soon. Keep your ammo well stocked and guns well polished.

I am of the opinion that the sooner the blood letting starts the better it will be for everyone.

There is no doubt in my mind that this is true. As Fitzpatrick is wont to point out, the demography metronome is always ticking, always speeding itself up by a beat.

The more the Moslems, the bigger the bloodbath.

I cannot believe the SURVIVORS are actually going to participate in this circus!

Posted by: Susanp at January 24, 2006 10:45 PM

It is a fine example of just how far liberalism and its evil sister multiculturalism has poisoned the minds of the UK populace.

Because of this I fear that when the real fighting starts Britain would rather submit to Islam than face upto the resposibility of defending its culture. A real shame.

APF, you know, it's funny, but the Q'uran says "kill Infidels" and that seems to be neither wrong nor illegal...

And thus our academics and permament governments have delivered us into the Fictive Reality called Moderate Islam.

As I sit here on my front porch, watching Unicorns bound over hedges in all four directions, I wonder why the epochal cognitive disconnect, and taking a sip from my Bud in the brown bag, know in my heart that a big part of their extraordinary prerogative is their fake status as a religion.

APF lets just hope that Israel gets up the courage to to start pounding Iran. I think if this happens it will kick start a chain of events that will eventually lead to tackling the demographic bomb thats ticking under Europes nose.

Here's hoping. And that entails also hoping that the younger Jews have not sunk too far into that warm delusional waterbed called Leftism to stand up and fight.

That happens, and maybe we can say shalom to a recovering future for all of us.

OT but our French cousins showing some more dhimmitude after last Autumns intifada.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4644766.stm

KM, it's not a big thing at this point to sit at McD., meaning there isn't likely to be a crowd waiting for you, but it's a beginning. It's important that we actually make the psychological step of announcing our willingness to physically stand up and say no to craziness. I realise that most people here are afraid they'd be murdered if they go to McD. on Thursday evening wearing a blue scarf, a red flag in front of a bull (colour-blind as I understand it,) and I considered the possiblity of a random attack on all people sitting at any McD. at any time simply because I've made the places a focal point. I think it's no more likely to happen than anything else they might bomb or attack, and they will. An attack on McD. simply because of our collective if scatteredd presence is so unlikely that I take the chance and possibly put uninvolved citizens at risk.

KM, let the world know, if you will, where you'll meet. Or perhaps, if we consider it, don't: let the world go and look for those with blue scarves in every McD. on Earth. I suggest specificity only because there's a chance, however slight, that we might relly meet fellows interested in joining in practical matters. If you and others do annoounce yourselves, I'll compile the list and post it tomorrow and Thrusday for all to see and to prepare for.

I'd rather join you for a drink in the Bay Area, but the truth is that S.F. cafes don't have the ubiquity we need. If you have any questions, pleasse click on my name below and leave a note.

Interested, what is "incitement to violence"? Is saying "A good Red Indian is a dead red Indian" already a crime or not? Where do you draw the line? Does saying that the behaviour of a certain social group (i.e. gays) is "unacceptable" imply that if something/someone is unacceptable then it/they should be removed? Do not underestimate the power of words.

I am interested in buying/making (whatever really) anything that looks like coffins (I hear you can buy carboard ones) and draping them with the Union Jack flag.

Having 1 coffin drapped in the flag for each of the innocent victims outside, or near to the exhibition would be ideal.

I believe this would gain media attention worldwide. With careful planing and a media response this is a very good opportunity to combat this sick exhibition on such a sad anniversary.

Anyone interested leave your interest here or pass the word.

With enough interest I will post an email address to contact and begin organising it!

P.S. This would be a peacefull demonstration.

This is OT but this is a good point to catch the majority of UK posters.

Gruesome Georgie Galloway in video footage being friendly with Uday Hussein. I appreciate that The Currant Bun is not first choice for academic excellence but I gather the footage is to be played on Channel 4 tonight.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006040109_1,00.html

http://stand-up-for-your-country.blogspot.com/

End the myth about Islam? You mean the Norse god Thor wasn't Muslim? And the prophet Muhammad isn't partying in the halls of Valhalla with the Valkries? Hokey smokes, Bulwinkle!!! What other secrets are being withheld from us?
Oh my!!! What about the Midgarde Worm and the jinns!!? Say it isn't so Odin, say it isn't so!!!

Does saying that the behaviour of a certain social group (i.e. gays) is "unacceptable" imply that if something/someone is unacceptable then it/they should be removed? Do not underestimate the power of words.

Saying that the behaviour of a certain social group is unacceptable means just that, no more, no less. It is clearly not incitement to violence. Saying that we should beat gays up is borderline and would depend on the context, eg, was it said with a loud speaker at a gay pride rally. Saying "beat those gays up" or "kill those Muslims" is incitement to violence.

It is simply ludicrous to argue that condemning behaviour is akin to inciting violence. Fortunately our law, as it currently stands, is not ludicrous. Sir Iqbal was treated justly under the current, very reasonable law.

Interested, you have not answered my question about Red Indians. Is it or is it not? Why is then Nick Griffin on trial? Can you explain to me how what he says is classed as incitement to violence/racial hatred and not merely stating the facts.
It transpires that inciting racial hatred (which I see no evidence of in the report below) is also transcending the borders of free speechor at least is enough to press charges against Griffin. You might have to rethink your stand on British law in the end:

"Islam is 'wicked' says BNP boss
British National Party (BNP) leader Nick Griffin who is accused of stirring up racial hatred said he believed Islam was a "wicked, vicious faith".
He said the religion is the "mortal enemy of all our fundamental values".

But he said his comments were not a criticism of Muslim people, Leeds Crown Court heard on Wednesday.

The 46-year-old and party activist Mark Collett are accused of using words or behaviour likely to stir up racial hatred in speeches in West Yorkshire.

The speeches were recorded by a BBC reporter and aired in a documentary.

Multiculturalism 'bad'

The court heard that Griffin, from Llanerfyl, Powys, entered the British nationalist scene at the age of 15 and at that time held views which many would consider to be racist.

But he said he now thought differently and told the jury that Europe would soon be forced to choose either to remain as a democratic settler society or to become an Islamic republic.

And he maintained that although critical of the Islamic religion, he did not object to "Muslims as a group and most definitely not Asians".

"Although I believe that multiculturalism and mixing cultures up is a bad thing because it destroys different human cultures," he said.

"I was brought to the conclusion that in many of the trouble spots around the world... in the vast majority there's a common denominator, not different cultures per se. The common denominator in these problems is Islam."

Mr Griffin denies two charges of using words or behaviour intended to stir up racial hatred and two alternative charges of using words or behaviour likely to stir up racial hatred."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_yorkshire/4647406.stm

Is saying "A good Red Indian is a dead red Indian" already a crime or not?

I have, in fact, answered your question in my previous post:

Saying that we should beat gays up is borderline and would depend on the context, eg, was it said with a loud speaker at a gay pride rally. Saying "beat those gays up" or "kill those Muslims" is incitement to violence.

Substitute red Indians for gays and you have your answer.

Let's see what the outcome of the trial is. And let's see what is the outcome of the trial of Abu Hamza.

At the moment, Polish Infideless, you are demonstrating that your heart is in the right place but your understanding of English law is deficient.

People of London,and those who lost your dear one on 7/7,get ready with your plea-cards,to stand in thousands with your wives and children before the Exhibition main entrance to denounce and shout at these killers, who celebrate the Killings Anniversary with an Exhibition. Boo at the London mayer,when he enters .Let these politecions know that they cannot use the Original Britishers as pawns for the sake of their own political interests,,Arab Dollors,and share in the loot.

The single most important myth we must combat about Islam is that civilized people can accommodate it any way (since they clearly have tried and found they can't--it will attack and kill them). The second most important myth about Islam that needs combatting is that it is a religion of peace. The third most important myth about Islam we must combat is that this is a religion at all (it's the world's deadliest and oldest CULT). Another mega-myth we must face down is that Islam is "Abrahmic". Islam's deity is al-lah -- which is not the deity of Abraham's (which was Yahweh). Judeo-Christians worship Yahweh and NOT al-lah the Arabian (and Babylonian moon-god). Islam has been disguised as a Judeo-Christian faith when it is fact a paganistic and human sacrifice cult displaying the most sinister characteristics of each.

These myths I have mentioned is among many other such misleading ideas commonly spread about Islam in the western democracies. And are unfortunately myths that die hard deaths. But until they are finally nailed there presently is scant prospect of humanity finding a way out of its manifold difficulties.