German Muslim groups angry over 'racist' citizenship test

If you want to live in any country you should be required to pass a loyalty test...

If you dont like it ...
Too bad...
Move to Iran... or Syria or Indonesia..
These islamic meccas have everything you could want...

Dont move into our countries then try to take over...

We tend to get a little upset over this...

You dont see Americans moving or trying to immigrate to Iran do you?
Or any Islamo Faschist state?

I wonder why that is...

Also you Morons ..
Since WHEN is ISLAM a RACE!!!!1

Idiots..

Imagine that. Angry, enraged, aggrieved Moslems. Such is the emotional range of Moslems.

ALWAYS ANGRY ALWAYS AGGRIEVED ALWAYS BITTER ALWAYS PREROGATE ALWAYS

Now, if anybody in Germany had any brains or nerve they would respond point-by-point with myriad quotations taken from the most sacred and holy Islamic scriptures, from the Sharia, and from statements of contemporary Moslem leaders.

But few in Germany has any mental firepower left, and they're all enervated (EU). This German gambit reflects only their innate bureaucratic impulse. Nowadays, they are leftists above all. They need to appear on David Letterman and have an agreeable rap session. Or at least on Charlie Rose. If not that, Oprah maybe?

Defeatism has its hiccups. Do not underestimate the Germanic culture's determination to destroy itself.

ja voll.

" blatant discrimination because only people of the Islamic faith are forced to give answers"

Simple solution: ask ALL people seeking German citizenship these questions; the only people that will have trouble with the questions on a cultural level will be Muslims. Discrimination problem solved.

OT - In France there seems to be a growing feeling of Anti Dhimmitude since the new year.

The government announced that New Year's evening had gone well, despite a record 425 cars burnt in the country. Meanwhile the scandal surrounding the government trying to cover up the 'Train of Terror' where, depending on the source, between 20 and 100 'youths' attacked, vandalised, terrorised and raped their way through a train for 5 hours. And almost all of them escaped.

A resistance movement is growing, where all those who are tired of government lies are wearing blue scarves. I haven't got one myself yet, but I understand that they are devilishly difficult to find now. There is a planned, Blue Scarf demonstration on the 26th of January. You can be certain that it will be better attended than the Muslims against Terror march in New York last year.

A few days ago, several of us went to a Paris church to hand out leaflets to people attending a meeting entitled "Introduction to Islam". The only person who objected to our presence was the dhimmi priest.

As we were handing out leaflets, some poeple asked if we were connected to the meeting. We replied that we were anti islam and were presenting a very different point of view. Some expressed gratitude that we were there. No one accused us of provocation or racism.

Also, some people unknown to our group asked some very pertinent questions. We are really less alone than I believed a week or so ago.

Here is a thread on France-Echos about this event. Interesting are some of the comments

http://www.france-echos.com/actualite.php?cle=7894

Gilles vendredi 6 janvier 2006
Re : Les limites du débat

Courage camarades !

Dans ma ville de l'Est de la France, les écharpes bleues commencent à fleurir comme par enchantement dans les artères du centre ville.

Trans:

Courage my friends. In my town in Eastern France, Blue Scarves a magically appearing everywhere in the major streets of the city centre'

ZAZAE
Et puis ici les commerçants refusent de servir toutes les salopes en tchador. Du coup elles sont obligées d'aller au carrefour voisin mais là d'autres surprises les attend... que je ne peut pas dire sinon le big chef va censurer

Trans: And here the shops refuse to sell to those bitches in Chadors. Suddenly they are forced to go to the neighbouring Carrefour (Large Supermarket) but there are other surprises awaiting them there..I can't say what or the big boss will censor me"

Add to this, the 'provocative' feeding of homeless with Porc Soup, weekly in Paris, Nice and now in Charleroi Belgium seems to be a thorn in the side of the government who just wants a to fade into dhimmitude as quietly as possible.

The report from last night's Porc feed at Montparnasse, Paris is not out yet. So I have no idea how it went. But the next time the police try to prevent them. They may find a little more resistance than they bargained for.

Well see. It's not over by a long shot.

Aux Armes Citoyens.

The US should start requiring the same test for Muslim immigrants in America. I want a complete halt of Muslim immigration. How's that for political incorrectness.

Dr. Pepper wrote:

"...ask ALL people seeking German citizenship these questions..."

Agreed.

I don't know what thinking went into this, but the obvious solution, IMO, would have been to ask all applicants the same queststion.

Thirty oral questions.
Two hours time.
No discrimination complaints.
No discrimination lawsuits.
And Muslims would still be subjected to the same questioning, as they are now.

Another poorly conceived, shoot themselves in their collective feet, give 'em another victim card plan.

I bet they'll be forced to rethink this one.

Although I'm usually very opposed to any government questioning about what could be considered "thought crimes" this is clearly different. In the case of Muslims, it is directly related not just to beliefs but to actions. Besides, Germany has a history that makes this necessary.

In West Germany during the 1940s and 1950s, any applicants for government, school, police, or any other official position were asked similar questions as part of the de-nazification program. Since questions of this type were imposed on the entire German people, it is not illegal discrimation to impose similar screening today.

The similarities between militant Islam and Nazism are obvious and Baden-Wuerttemberg is acting sensibly according to Germany's long established anti-nazi policies.

There are other questions that need to be asked.

To whom should a Muslim be loyal? To his fellow Infidel citizens, in an Infidel nation-state? Or is his loyalty owed to the umma al-islamiyya?

Yes, many will lie. But then citizenship can be denied for evidence of perjury. And it is not hard to prove that someone who calls himself a Muslmi is required, by everything in Islam, to owe that loyalty not to the Infidel nation-state, but to Islam and the Community of Believers.

And there are a hundred other questions that might and should be asked.

Note to Congressmen, and especially Tom Tancredo:

Look into this.

And if you want some sample questions, contact Robert.

Merely discussing the matter, merely pointing out that Muslim loyalty is supposed to be (there may be unobservant or "bad" Muslims -- and that's fine) reserved for Islam and the umma, is good.

Merely introducing or releasing these questions into the ether,into the pages of The Bandar Beacon and The New Duranty Times, is good.

Let some scoff at the preposterousness of the very idea.

We are ready, ready to quote from the texts and from histroy, sura and ayat, Muslim authority after Muslim authority, chronicle after chronicle.

"Although I'm usually very opposed to any government questioning..."
-- posted by Provoslavni

Remember that --- with every incoming Moslem or convert to Islam --- America becomes a little bit less free.

I look at the U.S. Constitution and see a shrinking document. As the Moslems pile up here via immigration and buck-breeding, our Constitution inches from vibrancy to antiquity.

I don't get it.
We all know that Muslims feel no compunction about lying to infidels, in fact they seem to derive pleasure from it.
Islam commands them to do it.
So how is a test going to prove anything?

They will simply lie.

Islam is laughing at the West.
Look how ridiculous we are, arguing about piddly issues such as cartoons and immigration tests, when we should be getting tough about important issues.

We need to learn a lesson from the Muslims.
It's a bit like haggling in one of those Middle Eastern bazaars...
Muslims set the price impossibly high and rarely haggle if violence and threats will suffice.

We in the West set the price rock bottom and beg the buyer to 'please be nice'.

The answer is,

ABSOLUTELY NO MORE MUSLIM IMMIGRATION

NO EXCEPTIONS...even for family reunion, hardship, or any one of a thousand reasons the touchy-feely humanists will dream up.

We have to get tough about this.

No doubt we will get tough eventually but it will take a spectacular tragedy, touching many millions, to wake the West out of it's fabulously comfortable apathy.

When we have stopped Mualim immigration we can start sorting out mass Muslim deportation.

Since the multi-ethnic Muslims (from Fez to Jakarta) always want to be considered a race (otherwise their cries of "racism" ring nonsensical), and since the "human" race, as a meaningful concept, has already been taken, let's give them what they want and let them be known from now on as the "inhuman" race.

I'm happy.

They're happy.

Accuracy rules.

Sebastien

That is really good news. I'm going to get myself a blue scarf and wear it in support. We need something like this in the U.S. to hold us all together and show support. Also it is a good conversation starter.

'Ute Vogt, the opposition Social Democratic (SPD) leader in Baden-Wuerttemberg, slammed the practice as 'full of cheap clichés and based on prejudice against Muslims.'"

Anyone know how Ms. Vogt responded to the various honour killings that have taken place in Germany's Muslim community?

You can ask her, Waterdragon: http://www.ute-vogt.de/

Click the "Weiter" button - there's an email link in the navigation bar.

Sebastien:

Good luck and please keep us informed.

Good luck, Sebastien... if you need any assistance let us know. I'm sure there are a few people here who'd love to help you guys.

This test should be imposed on all Muslims irrespective of whether they are already citizens or not. This will weed out the Muslims who do not want to assimilate but want to have their own sharia land in Germany. If they don't like it, they are always free to leave and go back to their Islamic hell holes, then they could live under sharia or whatever law they please. Get out if you don't like it.Its as simple as that!!!!!!!!

The blue scarf could also be used to show support for Israel. A double edged sword, as it were.

... slammed the practice as 'full of cheap clichés and based on prejudice against Muslims.'
Ute Vogt, Social Democratic (SPD) leader

I am prejudiced against Moslems. Being so is the only rational response. When members of an ideological cult call for the extermination of my people, am I not allowed to prejudge them right back?

And what cheap clichés? First, the points to which Herr Vogt no doubt refers, are demonstrably true.

And they ain't nothing about these Moslems that's cheap, exept for they themselves.

I'm often critical of our (USA) out of control immigration situation. But Muslim immigrants take arrogance to a whole new level. They just washed up on Europe's shores a few decades ago and are already trying to order around EUropeans. To make EUropeans tip toe on egg shells whenever there is a Muslim disagreement. This stinks. What awful pests!! European Islamics love chaos and anarchism just witness the automobile burnings in France. What pests!!

Many Muslims must be OK and even ashamed but they do nothing about the vocal-complaining Muslims. Many secretly like the in your face Muslims

Dms. Thanks for your response to the posting I made a little earlier. Of course the Blue Scarf suggests support for Israel.

There are 600,000 jews in France, the highest anywhere in Europe. They have been demonised by the most obscene press and media coverage seen since the Soviet Union.

Claude Reichman who has launched the Blue Revolution sounds very kosher to me.

http://www.claudereichman.com/larevolutionbleue.htm

Thanks for your support

Islam is a pestilence and European Muslims are mega-pests. A plague.A cancer. I refuse to call it a religion. It's a cult for the pissed off and disaffected to join forces in. Islam recruits in USA prisons and amongst the lumpen. Among the marginalized losers and those in mental crisis. Muslims unite under phony submission to their phony Allah. What malarkey! What hypnotized unwashed masses. That's Islam's power for you.

The (Muslim) tail tries to wag the (European) dog. It's succeeding incrementally.

Ute Vogt, the opposition Social Democratic (SPD) leader in Baden-Wuerttemberg, slammed the practice as "full of cheap clichés and based on prejudice against Muslims."

I say her statement is a cheap leftist cliché based on ignorance and/or prejudice against anyone not in a minority.

Alarmed Pig Farmer wrote:
"Remember that --- with every incoming Moslem or convert to Islam --- America becomes a little bit less free.

I look at the U.S. Constitution and see a shrinking document. As the Moslems pile up here via immigration and buck-breeding, our Constitution inches from vibrancy to antiquity."

Absolutely!

That's why I made the exception to the rule about government concern with beliefs and opinions. In the case of Muslims, their beliefs lead directly to oppression and violence. I don't think Islam should be treated as a religion but as an ideology.

Advocates of Islam should be treated exactly like advocates of Nazism during World War II or advocates of Communism during the Cold War. They are a clear and present danger to the survival of the Freee World.

Sebastien: ”Meanwhile the scandal surrounding the government trying to cover up the 'Train of Terror' where, depending on the source, between 20 and 100 'youths' attacked, vandalized, terrorized and raped their way through a train for 5 hours. And almost all of them escaped.”

I live in Sweden and I have not heard even a whisper about the ”Train of Terror” so the cover-up must have been very successful.

Can you fill me in?

I agree with Mike_W that one can't stop prospective immigrants from simply telling the test-givers what they want to hear.

In fact, I think a whole cottage industry might spring up, coaching people on the right things to say.

And then the dhimmi media will come out with a story about how surprisingly liberal all the test-takers have been, so there can't be a problem with Islam, now, can there?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

The blue scarf could also be used to show support for Israel. A double edged sword, as it were.

Posted by: dms at January 6, 2006 12:38 PM

Of course the Blue Scarf suggests support for Israel.

[...]

Claude Reichman who has launched the Blue Revolution sounds very kosher to me.

[...]

Posted by: Sebastien at January 6, 2006 12:52 PM

Hmmm. Normally, I stick to basic black, but I think I shall go out and purchase myself a blue scarf this weekend and pass word on to other friends as to the symbolism.

It's Frau Vogt, APF... she's probably looking forward to wearing the burka soon - you never know with the German left.

Hans:
Spot on. It's a cheap tactic with the left to cry "cheap cliches!" and "stereotypes!" when they themselves can't come up with counterarguments and solid evidence. I've seen many a folk having his mouth shut by the accusation of indulging in stereotypes, when it was evidently not the case. Often just the fear of these dreaded words makes one refuse to engage in any discussion about groups of people, no matter how legitimate it might have been.

Sebastien

Great news. Do the French Boy Scouts wear a blue scarf? I remember I got one from a French kid once, in exchange for my communist red one. The blue was much cooler; instead of being tied in a knot, it was held together by a stylish leather ring.
I refuse to believe the French spirit is dead.
I'm spreading the word about your web site.

I'm picturing a light sky blue. Are the scarves light blue or a darker navy blue?

(Don't want to purchase the wrong shade, now do we?)

Here's a stupid question. If the questions are based on cliches and prejudice, then won't the Muslims answeing them have no trouble giving the right answers?

Sebastien, please send me details on the Blue Scarf protest. I can post your copy at a number of sites and perhaps we can make this an international protest in time.

Write direct at dagdotwalkeratgmaildotcom or leave a comment at http://nodhimmitude.blogspot.com.

Also let me know about the leaflet campaign you're involved in. Thanks.

RebeccaW:

Actually, I have the royal blue of the Israeli flag in mind myself.

A couple of years ago, they were handing out little royal blue ribbons to attendees at the Toronto Jewish Film Festival to symbolize opposition to anti-Semitism, and I have to say that the royal blue looks very striking, even against black.

I recognize the impetus of most posters here to try to formulate a "solution" to the Muslim menace in legalistic terms, and to initiate a kind of contractual basis for immigration... This all sounds so reasonable...

Although I am unaware of the parameters of German immigration -- we have plenty of laws already on the books in America to supposedly "insure" the dedication and loyalty of potential applicants for US Citizenship -- foremost is an oath to honor and defend the Constitution... If a Muslim swears this oath, and then is found to be in violation by his so-called "thought crime" of wishing to see sharia laws trump those of the Constitution, there is ample legal reason to withdraw his citizenship, and at the very least, deport him back to his shit hole of origin... There is also ample precedence to be far more harsh with such traitors...

But has this ever been effective? Has this ever been enforced? Not to my knowledge... Now, however, aspects of this legalistic framework seems to form the basis of several pending cases including Al Arian, and the Imam of Ohio's largest Mosque Fawaz Damra -- both of whom were caught in various lies and deceptions in their applications for citizenship -- mainly denying affiliations with terrorist groups.

There is a never ending maze of arcana involved in enforcing such laws... And our legal system, by its very nature, is largely precluded from fast neat clear cut answers, even to things that appear simple and clear cut such as the treachery of these two pious Muslim hypocrites...

So, this legalistic solution proposed by Germany, which has a vague semblance to the American Immigration policy, will probably be nearly ineffective at staunching the Muslim menace and Islam's Jihad in the West...

Much harsher measures are needed to repudiate Muslims in our midst and without -- measures which remain undiscussed and unmentioned here...

If we cower in the face of having this discussion, Muslim predation against us will surely continue. Muslim undermining of our societies is so far unabated, and there are plenty of signs that their Jihad on our soil has only gained momentum... So far, our approaches have only guaranteed that we will become weaker, and the Muslim will become stronger over time...

This is nothing short of an epic existential fight for the survival of two conflicting views for the human species... What trajectory will we take? Pluralism, capitalism, humanism, science, democracy? Theocracy, totalitarianism, hatred, ignorance, bigotry, murder, oppression, terrorism...? Which?

Our formidable, relentless, patient, and evil foe Islam has already proved its bona fides at gobbling up giant tracts of land, and reducing formerly great cultures and religions to wreckage and dust and oblivion...

Our record is also formidable -- but only 2 or 3 centuries old... And already, through our sped up process of "progressive" change, we seem to have jettisoned much in our culture and religion that formerly made us strong and formidable. We have traded these characteristics for questionable and theoretical alternatives, the embrace of false "multi-culturalism" being only one... Fantasy that legalistic approaches to conflicts which may be more accurately viewed as all-out war is another... The European construct -- that which fantasizes that war is a bygone relic of primitivism, that borders are inconsequential, that relentlessly following goals of liberalism without expending blood and money on steely defense, that diplomacy is always better than fighting, or that police actions are a satisfying and credible substitute for massive violence against your enemies -- all of these things seem to me to be responsible for placing us in the precarious situation we now find ourselves with regard to Islam and her devious adherents...

Loyalty tests aren't a credible solution for this plague...

The Israeli flag is an azure blue, I think. I would say that it is my favorite color, or colour, as Granny and Interested would say. It stands out and makes a statement. I love it. I'm going to go look for some tomorrow to take to our grassroots meeting next week. Like the white carnation - a secret thrill in the wearing of it. A secret thrill in seeing it on others. I just don't know if I should be having this much fun.

And what kind of scarf? A silk scarf? A woollen scarf? A small scarf? A long scarf?

Voltaire
Any kind of scarf that can be worn round the neck.

Rebecca,can you elaborate on the grassroots meetings such as contacts in various states?

@Voltaire:

Any scarrf you like comrrrade. As long as it's blue.

Imli

The good part is that even if the German Muslim Council is going to drag this all the way to the Bundesverfassunggericht (the German Supreme Court equivalent), because the questionaire is so pointed, the individual points will get discussed in the open.

I do agree with one of the sentiment of the people who are against it -- it is very true that the muslims will all learn to parrot the 'correct answers' very quickly.

However, there is a small clause in the citizen ship application, which states that the citizenship is void if the applicant is found to be lying during the application, and that is the small, but important bit.

For those who speak German, the full list of questions can be found here: http://www.zeit.de/online/2006/02/gesinnungstest

As the Zeit mentions further, the Grundgesetz(the basic law) states that no-one can be deprived of their German citizenship. However, this is currently being contested at the Bundesverfassungsgericht in a case where a Nigerian used certificates of a namesake to become a German citizen.

The baden-württembergische Justiceminister Ulrich Goll is defending the questionaire as 'Protection against Islamisation'.

The politically correct omerta over the true nature of Islam is finally fraying, and that right in the center.

Imli

dms, I'll bring up the idea of posting meeting places and grassroots contact information with Robert and Hugh and the rest of the board. I'm not sure how people would feel about putting their names addresses and phone numbers on this site...There may be a way to shield the list and pre-approve those who enter to view it.

ideas?

Rebecca
You are right. Everyone needs to protect him/herself for sure and I hadn't thought of it that way. I forgot the first rule of warfare which is to know well your enemy and thanks to Jihad Watch I certainly know mine.

Know your enemy indeed! The questions should be asked of all immigrants (migrants, entrants, or whatever they call themselves), even of those that don't propose to become citizens. Many entrants come, never intending to apply for citizenship, but for more sinister reasons...

Although taqiyya and kitman are Muslim practices, one should understand that lying for self-preservation is a universal trait and there are many others in the world that consider lying to America to be an honorable thing...

dms, we could have public meeting places and times posted without posting names - we could wear our blue scarves so we would know each other...

Rebecca, I hope you are not kidding or, as the English say, having me on because I'm serious about this. Sky blue is my favorite color. Vive la resistance bleu. My ancestry is mostly French and British.

I think ANY group which traditionally embraces such notions as bigamy, "honour" killings, death penalties for homosexuality and adultery and so forth, should be required to take this test. Not just Muslims.

Oh, wait a minute. Sorry, never mind.

I think the scarf is a great idea, but we should be careful to stick to the correct shade, otherwise I can foresee some strange misunderstandings..
To me in the KlausReichman picture it looks like a cobalt blue.
BTW what about when summer comes?

Above should be 'Claude'

Silvester
In the summer you can wear one of those cotton kerchiefs the cowboys wear around their necks like a sweatband of sorts. They come in all colors. Mine will be sky blue.

dms
Yeah, that could look quite cool. But are you sure about sky blue - have you looked at the photo on Claude Reichman's site linked by Sebastien? Or maybe any shade of blue would do, blue being the operative colour, I suppose!

dms - of course I'm serious.

It is very hard for a political movement to form if people can't meet...we must find a way to organize at the grass roots.

Dear Friends
to all of you from UK, Germany, France,Sweden,Holland, Belguim and Denmark, in fact any country where there is an emerging 'problem with Islam'.

I wish to express my absolute solidarity with you all from Australia. I shudder to read about the train of horror situation in one of the comments. It is the type of thing which occurs in Sydney also. Gang rapes based purely on 'Are you Aussie' ? yes.. WHACK.. and rape.. etc.. but the stupidity of all this, is that we are many, they are few.

Some girls are plain stupid, wandering alone, or are acquaintances of some Muslim who will in turn have friends who see an opportunity to 'catch a slut' in her. Even the brothers will join in on the rape. They are so stupid and arrogant they will even send SMS to each other about what they are doing !

One young man from Pakistan, began his rape spree just 4 days after arriving in Australia.

I urge all of you, to strenghten your ties with each other and with us. We have enough cultural similarity and commonality to do this. In my case I'm evangelical Christian, of Anglo Scott background, but I would stand shoulder to shoulder with an Atheist or Jew if the goal was to defend our freedom to 'be' those things from the onslaught of Sharia.

To all of you who as yet do not have a personal faith in God. I urge you to reflect, to seek, and hopefully find.

We need to be acutely aware of the intensity and urge to kill and fight 'for Allah' which exists in the minds of radical Muslims. They fight without worrying if they die nor not. Can we say that ? I can, but then, I don't really like the idea of fighting, thats part of knowing Christ.

But as Romans 13 says, "The emporer does not bear the sword in vain.. it is to deter the evildoer"

The point is, there are legal ways we can organize ourselves such that we can defend against outbreaks of animosity towards us.

Self defense is legal in most countries as far as I know...and ORGANIZED self defense, with a goal of restraint and citizens arrest, is also legal.(Check each of your countries)

I urge and encourge all of you, to look at forming loose but well disciplined groups of defenders, on a street by street or suburb basis.
Have a chain of command, alarm system, communications system, (with redunancy and backup)
so that at any time, a large number of young (and old if needed), can descend onto your street, and capture these invaders. There was a convoy of around 40 cars went from the Lakemba Mosque to Maroubra/Cronulla, with emergency lights all flashing, to attack the 'white scum'. The police were too strung out to cope.

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2005/12/12/1134236005902.html

Have the following on hand.

Inside premises: Baseball bats,Capsicum Spray.

For use outside: Capsicum spray, cable ties (for tying hands of offenders).

The police should be notified as a first instance response, but the offenders will have fled by the time they arrive usually.

I encourage each one, to learn some basic self defense moves. Kick boxing offers the most for a street encounter, and is not difficult to learn.

-Flying kick... probably the easiest to pick up and safest against an assailant with a knife or bat.

-Follow up with the 'old 1-2' (to jaw) from Boxing to disable the attacker or render him unconscious.

-CLOSE COMBAT.. duck,weave, and use of knee to groin or stomach.

Maintain a level of fitness, a good walk most mornings with lots of stretches. Young guys from football clubs and gyms are probably already fit.

Finally, BEWARE of any orgnanized movement being HIJACKED by interest groups such as Neo Nazis or Racial supremacists or Radical Socialists. This is NOT about persuing any political agenda other than self defense and freedom. (I am hearing an echo.... yes..its Braveheart.. "they can never take.......our freeeedom !)

My best wishes and solidarity to all of you.
In the name of freedom.

REBECCA
I have a suggestion about how to arrange meetings.

You can do a letter box drop of a whole street... so get a sense of response. Direct them to either a web site (with further instructions) where they can express their opinions and feedback.

A public meeting can be held in community houses.

It would not be a bad idea also (I think :) to invite a representative from the local Police to attend, to advise on the limits of what citizens can do in the area of self defence and citizens arrest under the law.

There is an aspect of law which is most important at the moment in regard to these things.

On who, is the onus to prove guilt or innocence ?

New South Wales changed the law recently so that the onus is on the 'prosecution' to prove ill intent, NOT for the defender to prove he did NOT have it. So, this is in FAVOR of citizens now.
Check your local legal situation.
cheers
ABNER

ABNERbarNER, we, here in the States, are still in the leaflet and poster stage and hopefully, if we take enough political preventative action here and now, then we won't have to go through what you are describing in the future, which is horrific - beyond belief.

my prayers are with you

Abner, mine also, and keep in touch, friend

1. The point of any test is to discriminate.

2. Islam is not a race but an Ideology

3. Germany bans Ideologies threatening the state.

4. The Koran is an open declaration of war on western ideals and its followers use themselves as missiles to kill non-Muslims.

5. Islamic state, by the very fact, that they lack separation of state and religious ideology, discriminate against non-Muslims.

So let's non-Muslims wake up and not apologies for want some societies to discriminate against Muslims

Raven:

Spot on. It appears that the Germans see Islam in a similar light to Nazism and Scientology, both of which have pseudo-religious overtones to them.

What colour of blue people are asking.

I think as long as it's the blue of the Israeli flag, the Tricolour, the Union Jack, the Australian flag or the Stars and Stripes we're on safe ground. (So far as I know, no Islamic country has blue on its flag, but not being an expert on this topic, I could stand to be corrected.)

It is very hard for a political movement to form if people can't meet...we must find a way to organize at the grass roots.
-- posted by Rebecca JW

And here is one of Islam's many sources of power. Since the earliest days in the streets of Medina, we all know that to openly criticize Islam is to place one's life at risk.

Religion of Peace my Royal Irish Ass. Like when that acolyte skewered a Jew in the Medina market because he felt the Jew had made fun of a Moslem female.

ALWAYS ANGRY ALWAYS AGGRIEVED ALWAYS BITTER ALWAYS SO VERY MOSLEM

If you have your get together, try not to get stabbed through the back of the heart by an angry 23 year old Yemeni welfare recipient.

Alarmed....
you have a very good point. Large public meetings or... even high profile individuals who are part of those meetings, CAN become a target for the fanatical fringe Muslims. Classic example is the murderer of Theo Van Gogh.

It is wise to try to keep (at all costs) tracability to home addresses and not to give out or use surnames. This should not be a huge problem because I feel the goals of this movement is not to elevate any particular individual to prominence but to raise public awareness and influence elections.

So, meetings should be fairly spontaneous, not regular, and home groups are the best approach once the initial launch is done. The Church in China grew at the house level, and when I think that the early missionaries of the China Inland Mission buried more of their own children than they saw chinese embracing Christ, if only they could see where their glorious efforts have gone, with today MILLIONS of believers in the house church movement.

People who wish to attend meetings in homes should be only those who are known to you or to those you know and trust.

Thanx to those who are with us in prayer.. we also with u :)
God bless

Ooops.. that should read "Tracability to home addresses SECRET....'
sorry.

"German Muslim groups angry over 'racist' citizenship test"

Germans are the citizens. The Mohammedans are infil-traitors and racist by nature. Mohammedans use our laws in order to subvert our laws, pervert the ideas of freedom and democracy, they come with resentment and hatred to their host country and try to destroy its economy. Thus they make life for the infidels in their own country very unpleasant, dangerous and expensive.

Mohammedans don't invade in order to become citizens of a nation state, but as conquerors and to turn the host country into an Islamic hell-hole in order to establish the Sharia, Islamic law.

No can do.

Internment and deportations. No mosques, no madrassahs, no residence, no welfare, no support of the Mussulmanic menace.

Whatever it takes to ship 'em out! No other way...

Those who've been here a long while know that we have done amazing things as a group of organizers on many fronts. We are now reaping some of the benefits of those experiences. I'll keep an eye on this and see if we might be able to do more that we've done in the past. I'm optimistic again.

Ute Vogt, the opposition Social Democratic (SPD) leader in Baden-Wuerttemberg, slammed the practice as "full of cheap clichés and based on prejudice against Muslims."

I say her statement is a cheap leftist cliché based on ignorance and/or prejudice against anyone not in a minority.

Posted by: Hans Brinker

No, Hans:

I say her statement is a cheap leftist cliché based on her own ignorance of Islam and Muslims .."

I'd say her statement manifests the stupidity and the ignorance of the lefty-looneys and greens who are whores for the vote and are therefore prostituting themselves in order to win support from Mohammedan voters.

Expose them for what they are and ridicule them 'wherever you find them...'

A few months ago I also saw one Greeney by the name of "Roth" - a rather big-mouthed, militant female who was arguing for mosques in rural Bavaria with the minister of the interior who found himself in a rather precarious situation combatting a militant, irrational female who was arguing the Mohammedan agenda.

Germany seems to be on the right track, here. Keep it up!

One of the victims on the Nice-Lyon 'Train of Terror' has given an exclusive interview to France-Echos.

This person had already been interviewed by an FM radio station and his since received anonymous phone calls, despite haveing given no personal details.

He also gets phone calls from various government (police)services to get him to revise his story. He is certain that there is pressure to minimise this event.

Should anyone like a translation of this interview availble here http://www.france-echos.com/actualite.php?cle=7901 I will be happy to do it. I think its important for the world to see the advanced state of dhimmitude currently infesting french society.

To those above who asked questions about the Blue Revolution. I know not a great a deal about it except that it was set up by Claude Reichmann from Radio Courtoisie and is strongly supported by Louis Chagnon. Thats good enough for me to want to take part. Louis Chagnon was the school history teacher dismissed for teaching that Mohammed was brigand and a thief.

The Muslim Council of Britain, the country's main Islamic umbrella group, has decided to boycott the National Holocaust Day for the second year running saying that the January 26 event was not "sufficiently inclusive."

"The MCB would be honoured to participate in a national memorial day providing that it clearly affirmed that the lives of all people, regardless of race or religion, are to be valued equally," a spokesman for the organisation said.

"This is why the Muslim Council has consistently called for a genocide memorial day," he said.

The Council, considered to be the main representative body for Muslims, caused controversy when it declined to take part in last year's national event which marked the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz.

Stephen Smith, the chairman of the Holocaust Memorial Day Trust said, "Holocaust Memorial Day has always been an inclusive event. That is why, from its first year, survivors from Bosnia, Rwanda and the holocaust have come together: Jews, Muslims and Christians, as well as non-Jewish victims of the Holocaust."

He said, "Holocaust Memorial Day is an opportunity for all communities and faiths to learn from a salutary past and expose all forms of racism - including Islamophobia and anti-Semitism - xenophobia, discrimination and bigotry."

Christianity makes no such claim, that the hand of God authored the writings in the Christian religion. The content was written by humans inspired by the philosophy, morals, ethics, and parables of Jesus and his followers. Western society emerged from Christianity, and contains all the freedoms we expect. Christianity is dynamic since it is human, and fully conforms with the International Bill of Rights, consisting of the ICCPR, ICESCR, and UDHR.
ICCPR: International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights
ICESCR : International Covenant on Economic, Social and Cultural Rights
UDHR : Universal Declaration of Human Rights

Islam’s religious writings are claimed to be the direct hand of Allah, and these writings were given to Allah’s messenger, Mohammad. Since Islamic writings were not written by humans, they cannot be reinterpreted by humans. The writings remarkably reflect Arab tribal beliefs in the 6th Century. Most of the content in Islam’s religious books do not comply with, and rather fully contradict the International Bill of Rights consisting of the ICCPR, ICESCR, and UDHR.

Muslims are starting to talk about reforming the Islamic religious books. Reforming Islam is not an option. Islam must be reformed. Islam is a snapshot of the 6th Century world, severely contradicting the human rights and freedoms we have established. Islam poises an imminent danger to the world’s citizens. Radical followers of Islam wish to destroy the world, as we know it, and return the world to the mentality of the 6th Century.

The world & humanity is dynamic and constantly changing. If a religion is to be considered significant, it must be dynamic, and evolve with the ethical and moral wisdom of the world’s citizens; this is what the International Bill of Rights represents, and this wisdom must be consistently reflected and interpreted in the world’s religions.

I just read some of the posts regarding some you of meeting each other. I would not advise any of you to do so for more than obvious reasons. With the exception of an honourable few (like Spencer, Fitzgerald, Fjordman, and a couple of others) all of us are anonymous.

Hell, I could be Osama Bin Laden writing anti-islamic posts and none of you would know about who I really was. I do not reside in America, so this whole thing does not affect me in the least.

If you want to do political work, talk to people you already know - your friends - and show them sites like Jihad Watch or FaithFreedom. People aren't stupid and they will accept the truth. Hell, I already showed FaithFreedom to the (non-Muslim) daughter of a Muslim after she started talking to me about Islamic tolerance. I easily found out that the little I know about Islam was a lot more than what her 28 years had taught her.

Rest assured that she will spread the word to people she knows like I have done. The world is a global village, everyone knows everyone.

There is literally no point in risking one's safety. You could be lucky and get Red Riding Hood. You could also get the Big Bad Wolf. You never know.

Sebastien: "Should anyone like a translation of this interview availble here http://www.france-echos.com/actualite.php?cle=7901
I will be happy to do it. I think its important for the world to see the advanced state of dhimmitude currently infesting french society."

I'd love to see the translation, if you do it, Sebastien. Perhaps it will be circulated some through the English language blogsphere.

Here's an auto-translation:

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.france-echos.com%2Factualite.php%3Fcle%3D7901&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&prev=%2Flanguage_tools

A link to the Washington Times, a newspaper that is aware of what is going on.

http://www.washtimes.com/world/20060104-115755-9546r.htm

Gangs Terrorizes Train in France
By Marc Burleigh
AGENCE FRANCE-PRESSE
January 5, 2006

PARIS -- A gang of more than 20 youths -- thought to be North African immigrants -- terrorized hundreds of train passengers in a rampage of violence, robbery and sexual assault on New Year's Day, French officials said yesterday.
The five-hour-long criminal frenzy was "totally unacceptable," French President Jacques Chirac told reporters. "Those guilty will be found and punished, as they deserve."
The gang of between 20 and 30 youths boarded the train, heading from Nice on the French Riviera to Lyon, in eastern France, early on Jan. 1, as it carried 600 passengers home from New Year's Eve partying overnight.
Once inside, they went wild, forcing passengers to hand over mobile phones and wallets, and slashing seats and breaking windows.
A 20-year-old woman cornered by several of the marauders was sexually molested.
"It was a real scene of pillage on the train," said the regional state prosecutor, Dominique Luigi, adding that the passengers were in a state of "panic."
Train staff alerted police, and the train pulled into a station to wait. The three officers who initially turned up later were joined by reinforcements.
A waitress in a bar near the station said two young women from the train had come inside in tears.
"They told me there had been groping. They talked about sexual assaults. They were really traumatized," she said.
The train resumed its journey with the heavy police presence on board but, just before Marseille, the youths pulled the emergency stop and many escaped.
Only three -- two 19-year-old Moroccans and a minor, all living in France -- were arrested. Both men were being held for robbery and one also was facing charges of sexual assault. The minor was to be judged separately.
Three others -- a man and two boys -- were arrested briefly in Marseille but were released despite reports they were carrying a knife, a screwdriver and a small amount of hashish.

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Police in Nice, meanwhile, said they had escorted the group of drunken youths and put them on the train Sunday to ensure they did not cause trouble in the city.
Police said they thought the gang was part of a bigger group of 100 youths from the Marseille area who had gone to Nice and nearby seaside resorts for New Year's Eve, taking advantage of a special $1 New Year's Day train fare.
News of the violence shocked France, which still was reeling from three weeks of rioting that flared in impoverished suburbs across the country in late October and early November last year.
The opposition Socialist Party said it viewed the incident with "astonishment."
It said "such acts show a worrying lack of security" and questioned why it took so long for police to rescue the passengers and why so few arrests were made.
Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy, who has championed hard-line security policies in France, partly blamed the state rail company SNCF for not communicating better with the police.
"The problem is that law-enforcement services didn't know that there was a promotional fare going," he said.

CRUZADO.. yes you have a valid point regarding meetings.. the crucial point is... work through those you KNOW. I've advised as much in another comment.

TO ALL FRENCH FRIENDS.

I just about rip my hair out when I hear of such a SMALL number of louts controlling so MANY citizens on a train. The simple fact of them already being bonded through the gang structure is the main factor in them being able to achieve this.

EVERY French person should learn some basic self defense and BE FIT. One person should be able to keep 2 to 3 people at bay by the use of some good kicks. At least looking like you can do something will unnerve them.

Learn a threatening stance.
Have a confident call rehearsed to stir your fellow citizens into immediate action.

I recently tried out some kickboxing techniques and found them wanting a bit...The best combo in my opinion when faced by 2 attackers, is as follows:

a) Keep your distance so that you can lift your left leg, then, a scissor action to lift your right leg and launch out with a seriously impacting kick with the right. (this should at least push away the attacker on your right and could be reversed if u want to deal with the attacker on the left first)

b) Kick strongly and downward onto the knee of the next attacker with whichever leg is available.
shielding your head with both hands and arms while doing this is a good idea)

When I tried this at gym with a punching bag and a fellow gym friend approaching me with intent to strike, it seems to work (I didn't kick his knee)

c) If you have any boxing ability, now is the time to go in for the knockout, a hard left right combo to the Jaw should do it.

Stretches are needed to give leg flexibility.
Sit down with legs wide apart, then bend torso and arms toward one toe until you feel pain in the muscle under your thigh. Remain there for 30 seconds and do the other leg. Repeat a few times.

stand up...and be counted.

Agreed about being very suspicious of meeting up with any online aquaintance.
A few people have been fishing about contact details here lately...very dangerous.

Remember that Coptic Christian family that was recently butchered in the U.S. after the father criticised Islam on an Islamic website.

Don't underestimate these monsters...in many ways they are incredibly stupid but when it comes to death and deception they are masters.

ABNERbarNER, I've memorized the locations of all objects suitable as impromptu weapons of self defence along the route of my usual walks, if a car load of these thugs pulls up.
A large rock or log could spoil at least one Muslim's day quite badly :)
I might be Christian but I intend defending myself if attacked.

Oh, nearly forgot - there are some excellent pointers on self defence here,

http://orangecow.org/pythonet/sketches/selfdef.htm

Europe certainly knows how to lose to a bunch of Islamofascist gangsters.

Times when Islam was humiliated should be taught in schools.

For example the fact that Necephorus Phocas had Islam on the run, and had he not been assassinated would have advanced from Antioch towards Mecca and Medina, and then to Jerusalem to as he said cast down the shadow of infidelity and in it's place build a house of God.

He defeated the Caliph's forces, there was no way the he could have lost had he set out.

Now how is that for politically incorrect? The German school system should teach about a Greek hero who fought with a death cult of the east, destroyed it's advance thus saving his people, liberated opressed christians, and was only stopped from claiming victory over the death cult by an assassins blade.

Now that would outrage Muslims.

Hey while the Germans are at it they should also order history teachers to wear bullseyes on their shirts.