That's the headline of this story from The Australian (thanks to JE). It means, of course, that there can be and will be no "peace process" at all.
AT the start of a year in the Holy Land that promises more uncertainty than hope, a once unthinkable scenario is being touted as a solution for lasting peace.Israeli officials, watching chaos consume the Palestinian Authority as this month's elections approach, have looked to sworn enemy Hamas as a party some would prefer to do business with.
Twelve months ago, even to consider dealing with Hamas to advance peace with the Palestinians would have been considered treason by many Israelis. But much has changed since then.
The ruling Fatah party that Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas took over following Yasser Arafat's death is now more fractious than ever.
The candidate list Fatah intends to take into the January 25 poll is only just holding together, in the face of a revolt from an impatient new guard, who reluctantly agreed to run a unified ticket. Most of the PA's public servants have suffered through months without pay, anarchy has replaced the rule of law, corruption is still disastrous, and militant groups call the shots.
Mr Abbas has failed to convert the strong mandate he won in January last year to assertive leadership. Given the mess he inherited from Arafat, it may be too soon to condemn him. But anarchy at home has not inspired confidence, on either side, in his ability to negotiate peace with Israel. Into this vortex has stepped Hamas, which Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon has refused to recognise as anything other than a terrorist group. Hamas, responsible for hundreds of Israeli deaths in the past five years and dedicated to the destruction of the Jewish state, poses a serious threat to Fatah if the poll - the first general election for 10 years - is held as scheduled.
Mr. Sharansky, please tell us again how democratic societies are always peaceful and stable and how speading democracy must be the linchpin in our foreign policy...
Yes, call all the hamas leadership to a meeting and then deliver all the Israeli "concessions" from a helicopter missle ship.
This goes to the core of the problem with the Muslim world.
Many in the West think that if we, in good faith, attempt to spread our wonderful democratic principles to arab lands, the world will be a great place... I can even hear the liberals joning hands with the mozzies to sing "koom- ba -ya"
Oh wait, what you say.. the Muslim Brotherhood just won over 20% of the Egyptian parliment.. hmmm....well, uh that must be some sort of abberation... oh, hamas is the strongest party in the Paley territories....oh, uh, huh huh um this must be some sort of mistake, right?... Oh, the iraqi elections showed a strong preference for religious candidates who favor sharia law...oh, uh, huh huh...mmmmm....
Perhaps- just Perhaps, the moslem world is so backward that it DOES NOT DESERVE DEMOCRACY!!!!
Democracy relies on an educated, informed, rational electorate. These election results show that Arabs should not be allowed democracy.They are too backward and stupid. This is why the best that can be hoped for is secular strongmen, like Mubarak and ...sigh... Saddam. Iraq and Gaza ain't Virginia and Pennsylvania.We need to wake up and smell the coffee. Democracy ain't for everyone.
No need to do anything. No need to encourage, or discourage, elections. No need for further jizyah to be turned over to the "Palestinians." No need for Israelto establish a "corridor" that would allow one group of "Palestinians" to visit another group of "Palestiinians."
Instead, the less the Infidels, including the ever-hopeful Israelis, have to do with the local Arabs, or other Arabs, both Muslims and islmochristians (but not the real, non-islamochristian Christians) the better. The more widely and deeply Islam is understood by Infidels, then the less attention and effort will be given to negotiations that will lead, if they lead to anything, only to treaties or agreements that must be based, as the Muslim side sees it, on the Treaty of al-Hudaibiyya (and if Rice and Bush do not know what the Treaty of Al-Hudaibiyya is, or what principle it stand for, someone quickly get them a copy of Majid Khadduri's "War and Peace in Islam" with the relevant pages helpfully postnoted).
Let Gaza go its way, sinking into greater chaos -- a chaos like that, perhaps, which developed in Somalia and reigns there today, confined within its borders, making Somalia a threat only to Somalis -- as long as they are kept from emigrating to the Infidel lands. In the West Bank (JudeaSamaria quondam JudeaSamariaque futurus)the world's organized Christians, instead of allowing themselves to believe, and to be manipulated by, the carefully-orchestrated campaigns of pseudo-Christians such as Naim Ateek, or such deeply and viciously anti-Israel "clerics" as Rev. Stephen Sizar of Virginia Water, should be demanding that in Bethlehem and Nazareth, Iraqi and other Arab-speaking Christians should move in, and Muslims be moved out. The retaking of Bethlehem, by the Israelis, and its being repopulted by Arabic-speaking but non-Arab Christians, or by Christians who are from Europe or Latin America, and willing to live there to keep the place safe for the world's Christians and out of Muslim hands and inevitable Muslim domination at the expense of a Christian presence, a Christian flavor, and ultimately of Chrsitian access -- should be a cause that will also, and most usefully, serve to separate out the Christians from the islamochristians. Let's see who wants to provide a refuge for the Christians in Iraq who have had their own experience at the hands of Muslim Arabs. And who can object if Christians arrive to protect Bethlehem from Muslim depredation and demographic conquest -- and focus on this will raise, in the Infidel minds, that very matter -- of demographic conquest -- that needs not only to be identified, but all the means to undo it need to be suggested.
Hugh writes:
"should be demanding that in Bethlehem and Nazareth, Iraqi and other Arab-speaking Christians should move in, and Muslims be moved out. The retaking of Bethlehem, by the Israelis, and its being repopulted by Arabic-speaking but non-Arab Christians, or by Christians who are from Europe or Latin America,"
That's a good idea.
hugh, great idea. Evangelical Chrisitan leaders here should be encouraged to have their followers move to areas of the west bank to Christianify it. It could work.
Indeed. Turn their own weapon of demographic creeping back against them.
Why there isn't a peace process, or a snowball's hope in hell of one:
2,990 attacks during 2005 'truce'
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1136102653775&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Too bad the journo writing for the Australian omitted this part of the story.
"Let Gaza go its way, sinking into greater chaos "
The problem is, they won't let themselves be ignored. They keep reminding Israel that they are there, willing to (as Hamas has stated) "pile the skulls of Jews up to the gates of heaven" Or something like that.
Ignoring them is wishfull thinking. As far as Christians retaking Bethlehem, that's also wishfull thinking. Their are hardly any left, less than 10,000 by some accounts, from what was once a thriving Christian presence of more than 100,000. When they can't find a Jew hiding behind those rocks, they turn towards the Christians for terrorism "practice".
All Israel can do is defend its borders from attacks, and hopefully in time the "Palestinians" will devower itself.
It's clear Hamas does not want power from Israel, so stop repairing the power lines they destroy. It's clear they do not want Israeli water, so turn off the tap for good when they damage a water main. They don't want Israeli food, so seal up that crossing for good, it's no longer needed.
When they launch attacks, destroy those who attack. Leave Satan's spawn in the darkness they obviously have choosen to live in.
They will never allow themselves to be ignored however. The UN will make sure of that. They will continue to feed and arm them so they can keep on being heard.
What Hugh suggests for Bethlehem we should be doing for the entire Yesha. And also the heavily populated Musilm areas in Europe. Immigrants from Latin America and Eastern Europe would be the best choice to drive the Muslims out of both Yesha and Europe.
I like Hugh's idea of letting Gaza dissolve into chaos and go the way of Somalia.Ten years ago people actually cared about Somalia, now nobody gives a s**t. Let the same thing happen to Gaza.
Explain to me again why the West is giving any aid to the "Palestinians"? A recent poll showed 65% of "Palestinians" hope AQ attacks the US or the western world again. "Palestinians" are willing to bite the hand that feeds them.They are the very definition of the scum of the earth.
Roxanne:
There's a significant difference between Somolia's or Sudan's chaos and Gaza or the West Bank -- the amazingly well-oiled and well oil-funded Palestinian Propaganda machine. There are far too many people in and out of government, civil service, the media, NGOs, etc., whose very livelihood depends on keeping this issue front and centre and unresolved, never mind the obsessed freelance nutbars who picket Israeli consultates, etc.
Templar I've got to agree with you on one thing. Democracy isn't for every one, but at least give them a chance at it. Lets not deny a person the right to vote for enslavement to a murderous Islamic regime or not. It is only then that we will know for sure if democracy is for them or not. They may prove too stupid to be free, in which case, they'll get what they deserve. But, if not, lets help them along the way to a lasting free society, where Islam is not the rule of law, nor the governmental guideline of conduct. The seperation of Mosque and state. (Did I just hear a liberal fallout?)
The only "peace process" that Israel should concern itself with is building enough walls to keep the Mohammedan hordes from killing them.
We can only hope that the situation disintegrates to the level of Somalia and not Afganistan. Lets hope that Iran does not share its soon to be developed bomb with their psychostelian brethren. At least Saddam is out of the loop. He easly could have caused huge problems with money, arms, training, and propaganda.
Perhaps, the moslem world is so backward that it DOES NOT DESERVE DEMOCRACY!!!!
Although you may be right in that the Muslim world is unable to accept a democratic system I would have to agree with Ironman that we need to at least give them a chance to prove themselves. No-one should be able to decide that a particular coutry is undeserving of democracy and then impose their will on the people.
I am not saying that a democratic system will always be the answer but who is to decide the point at which it is taken away? I am reminded of an article written after the last Australian election by some academic. One of the statements made implied that since John Howard is obviously unsuitable to be Prime Minister but was elected by the people, then the population of Australia is too stupid and backward to be allowed to vote.
Just because someone disagrees with the system in place (because it doesn't suit their needs) does not warrant them being able to modify the system. Most here would agree that democracy in islamic coutries does not seem to be working in a way we would like, but give them a chance to determine ther own future.
Hamas as the only key to peace...
Please.....
They have already STATED there will be no peace until all the jews are either dead or pushed into the seas...
The Left is so stupid they actually believe this vile crap...
Maybe im glad i never went to college...
Now hang on a minute, let me get this straight???
Haven't we been told that Hamas is evil, aggressive, killers, war mongering, and that they have only a small number of extremists Muslims in the group, and that they are not backed by mainstream Muslims because they are so aggressive, and now we are being told that they are in fact so popular that they could win the elections????. Hmmmm so why have our leaders kept telling us that most Muslims are peaceful, when a nation is prepared to vote this evil group into government. Well, I supose it is something that most of us on here allreally knew, that most Muslims in their hearts want the destruction of anyone who is not Muslim, and Hamas is proving the best group to bring this about. If this comes about, it will bring more hell for Israel. So much of this seems to be biblical. Will the rest of the world stand by and let these animals destroy Israel, I think not, on second thoughts maybe when the left wing governments gets into government, they will. .
I have been fascinated to see so many of biblical prophecies being fulfilled so really fast over the past 40 years. I found biblical prophecy so fascinating and it turned a once definitely non church person into totally turning my views around, it fascinated me to see that things that were written 4000 years ago were happening in our time NOW, so as I was seeing the fulfilment of prophecy happening before my eyes, I had to come to the conclusion that what it said in the bible must be true,... ... my heart goes out to Israel.
Templar, I do believe that democracy is for every one, however in saying this, it seems that violent people in the Middle east who seem to hate and fight everyone around them, don't have the ability to live under anything other than the threat of fear from a dictatorship. I believe that IF every one worked together, as most people the west do, that it would work, but unfortunately there are to many people full of hatred and lies for democracy to work in Muslim countries.. .
Democracy is the only way to go because it covers everyone from the not so bright to the industrious. The not so bright are looked after and the industrious can work as hard as they want. Surely people would not want to live in a country where they live in fear every day...How many dictators are there who have been good????
Gaye-
"Democracy" means nothing but the popular will. If the popular will is poisoned by Islamic lunacy from the start, you get legitimized Islamic lunacy in power.
The real issue is the Constitutional underpinnings.
If it is Shariah Law, then democracy has no meaning, because the will of the people is pre-empted by diseased dogma.
We should be talking not about "democracy" but BELIEFS.
If the majority have been headlocked into a theocratic nightmare system, then the only hope is not "democracy" (more of the same, with the pointless imprimatur of "free elections") but a Constitution guaranteeing freedom of thought for opposing all mental tyrannies.
(But if appears we've already failed to do this in either Afghanistan or Iraq, so what was the f*cking point?)
Any religion that kills its way into power deserves to be destroyed.
That's my faith.
profitsbeard, you are so right, so in effect they have a democracy, no different I supose to the manipulation of our left wing media. There was never any good going to come out of us going into Afghanistan or Iraq, if the reason was to bring about a "democracy" then we failed before we started, and if it was to stop nuclar, then we still failed, because Bush gave them 18 months to hide what they had, see below. The Un knew that they had nuclear as I have the Handbook for Notification of Exports to Iraq,
SC Resolution (1051),
Annex C
COMMODITY DESIGNATOR CODES AND THEIR ITEM DESCRIPTIONS
Format of the Commodity Designator Code: and all the items that were exported to Iraq in 1995, which included Nuclear materials, Plants and equipment used in uranium enrichment, and a mass more...
. one of the things that I dont understand is why did the UN give Iraq viruses like, Bacillus anthracis,'causative agent of: anthrax'... Brucella abortus...Clostridium botulinum which is a causative agent of: botulism....Salmonella typhi, also known as: Salmonella enterica var typhi, which is a causative agent of: typhoid fever.... Vibrio cholerae, which is a causative agent of: cholera.... Rickettsia prowatekii, which is a causative agent of: typhus fever... AVIRAN influenza virus....and along with the many other such virus's there was the B01040800-31 Ebola virus... all this and pages and pages of things that you wouldnt even want your friends to have.... so why would anyone give this to such a dangerious people who will use it for their own ends...then there is
August 6, 2003 NewsMax.com has obtained exclusive photos of a buried Iraqi jet fighter (one of two dozen buried fighters) being recovered by U.S. Air Force troops. The Iraqi jet, an advanced Russian MiG-25 Foxbat, was found buried in the sand after an informant tipped off U.S. troops. The MiG was dug out of a massive sand dune near the Al Taqqadum airfield by U.S. Air Force recovery teams. The Russian-made MiG-25 Foxbat being recovered by U.S. Air Force troops is an advanced reconnaissance version never before seen in the West and is equipped with sophisticated electronic warfare devices. U.S. Air Force recovery teams had to use large earth-moving equipment to uncover the MiG, which is over 70 feet long and weighs nearly 25 tons. I wonder what else is buried in the sand, or given to the neighbours...
Hugh, this rev. s. sizar sounds like a dreadful guy. On his website, he talks how he was a pro-zionist preacher until he visited Israel and he 'converted' to anti-zionist preacher on the day he visited Yad Vashem, the wwII memorial to the murdered Jews. I've read his writings on his website and it's as if there are no problems for the Islamic--christian world outside of Israel. Forget the former soviet republics, forget Yugoslavia, forget the far east, certainly forget Africa. Just forget. Only Israel. I've seldom read as biased crap in my life as his 'scholarship.' What does he say when the Bali bombs go off, when girls lose their heads(frequently) in Thailand, when Christians die by the thousands, by the hundreds of thousands in Africa(murdered by Islamic truthseekers). How the heck does this weasel look at his face in the morning. Wonder if he's getting a few dollars thrown his way by some Islamic think tank.