And once again, as in the early 1930s, few, if any, are paying attention. "Iran: Tehran Issues New Threat to Europe," from AKI, with thanks to Patrick:
Tehran, 4 Jan. (AKI) - The head of Iran's Supreme National Security Council, Ali Larijani, who is also the man behind Iran's foreign policy, has warned Europeans "not to force the Islamic Republic to cut short the dialogue process and to opt for another scenario". Speaking on Tuesday night on state television he said: "We are for a strategy based on dialogue, but if the counterparty Europe plays dirty, then we will pass onto another plan that we have worked out and then there will be problems for the Europeans."Without specifying the nature of the other plan and the other scenario, Larijani has compared the talks on Iran's nuclear programme to a chess game.
"In this game, we are for a result that will be satisfactory to both Iran and Europe," said Larijani adding that "if we lose, the same will also happen to the other party (Europe) and they will have to prepare themselves to live in a hell."
But Larijani used even stronger words for the United States. "A small error on the part of USA or the Zionists will be enough to induce us to unleash hell," said Larijani. "They know this very well and for this they haven't gone further than a verbal or psychological war," he said.
...and if ever there was a group of authorities on the subject of Hell, it's the devil's own spawn.
I found it interesting that...
A. The Thugger in chief in Iran uses the word Game
B. The Iranians want to keep the dialogue open
C. Then they Immidiatly WARN the USA that they will unleash HELL Obvioulsy referring to atomic weapons...
Do the Europeans realize what is going on?
Does the rest of the world realize the only reason the iranians are keeping the dialog open is to BUY TIME to finish their Arsenal...
If the iranians so called purpose is
to generate electricity
then how could a power plant ..
Unleash the Atomic HELL
the Thugger in Chief was referring too...
and Threatining both the USA and ISrael with
D. I hope the Islamo Faschists realize they hit either of us even with a DUD...
And we will Retaliate with everything we have..
Reducing Iran and their Holy sites
To a Giant Radiactive Hole in the Ground...
Short version: Dance the way we tell you to, Dhimmis!
Oh, yeah, like the hell we got when we arrived in Iraq a decade ago and the Iraqi army fell to its knees and we wound up with a bunch of desperate people in need of food and clothes. Or maybe the hell we found when we rolled into Iraq this time practically unopposed with the lying ‘Baghdad Bob’ the whole time telling the citizens “the Americans aren’t really here” as the people looked out their windows to find us rolling up in tanks. The Iraqi army didn’t stop us and, let’s not forget, this was the same army that kept Iran fighting for a decade! A DECADE!! Ha! What are the Iranians going to do if we decide to go in there? Wave white flags in a hostile manner?!?
Dialogue? What’s that? Since when have they even begun to enjoin in such things? The Iranians have done nothing but lie through their rotten teeth for years!
As RS calls him, the thug-in-chief, he’s proving to be the bully that he has the reputation of being. Sure, let those freaky little turbaned fools bark all they want because, personally, I don’t think they have any bite. As with any bully, you stand up to them and watch them crumble. The Iranians will do the same. They do nothing but talk, talk, and talk some more (and ¾ of it are lies) and should we go in there, the only hell anyone’s going to experience is the hell that we inflict on them.
I say we show them a one-trip ticket to the paradise that Allah has promised them. They worship death so much, it’s time we stand firm, laugh at the maggots they are, and send them onto their merry way into the afterlife. Think about how peaceful the world could be with a few specific locations on this earth turned to glass…
Nothing will be done about Iran getting nukes, just the same as nothing was done about North Korea.
Just like nothing was done in the 30's with Hitler (let's not forget the Religion of Peace supported him also - and still do), and that inaction led to war, the same will happen now. All the while the Peace Activists will be screaming, "In my hand, I have a piece of paper...peace in our time!", all the while mocking the Winston Churchill types.
The Islamic world is emboldened by our pathetically weak societies. We are strong, yet weak. This is a battle of minds, and as a society, our minds are weak and corrupt/selfish, undisciplined. As in the movie Pearl Harbor when the US President states -
"What choice do we have? While we are building refrigerators our enemies are building bombs!"
- which is what we are doing today. 9/11 was not a "Pearl Harbor". Our "Pearl Harbour" will be when one of our cities are wiped off the map. 9/11 was just the "warm up", and a "wake up" to the Muslim world.
And as Gen. Patton used to quote George Washington: "Times of peace should be used to prepare for war" - which our society no longer does. We think that if we offer our enemies a flower they will just lay down their arms and accept us for who we are. Bit like socialism/communism really - great on paper, but it sux in reality. It's like being nice to a crocodile thinking that he won't eat you one day. Our deaths will be like that of the croc's prey, a slow, horrible, tearing, drowing death. Is it really worth protecting this "species", just to make the flower power types and big business feel "nice" inside?
Unlike pre WW2, the weapons today are much more deadly than bombs and bullets.
"And as Gen. Patton used to quote George Washington: 'Times of peace should be used to prepare for war' - which our society no longer does."
-- posted by 3rdtimelucky
Don't be such an optimist, 3rd.
Nowawadays, we prepare *the enemy* for the forthcoming war by inviting them into our nation, putting them up in free housing and getting them on the welfare.
I await the day that George and Condi implement a "2nd Amendment for Moslems Program" whereby each non-felon Moslem [sic] is given high-powered rifles, a year's ammo, and educational vouchers for free gun range instruction.
DISLOYAL NYTIMES DISLOYAL WASHPOST DISLOYAL CHITRIB DISLOYAL LATIMES
As a stern measure in the War On Terrorism [sic] though, George & Condi will NOT allow our fine new Moslems exchange multiple gun range vouchers to upgrade to one voucher for a flight instruction school. Wouldn't be prudent.
IF we do anything against Iran, it will probably impose on us an oil embargo.
If there is an oil embargo, our economies will be under terible strain.
If we want to get our oil back, we have to go there ourselves, tanks rolling and drafted citizens and all.
This mean another occupation. Can we do it? Of course. Do we want to do it? Nope. Do we have a choice? Neither. What will happen? Probably military actions at the last minute, prompted by Israel's pre-emptive strikes in the next couple of months.
Maybe some good will come out of it. For exemple, this will force the europeans to put their shit together and make a decent pan-european military. They have the most hightech weapons, and 400 millions citizens, in the more powerfull economical bloc of the world. Maybe something good will come out of it.
Iran needs a nuclear program, and we don’t want them to get angry with us so lets stick our heads in the sand and do nothing. When the first nuclear bomb goes off in an American city or in Israel we won’t do any thing either because we won’t be able to figure out who planted it any way. Why don’t we all submit now because we don’t have the balls to fight?
/Euro-logic off
It's been 1937 for several years.
If nothing is done, something will be done, not to worry.
You see we may do nothing, but since the great shaitan will then have displayed how Allah will help those who do their part, the racist and genocidal nuclear power enhanced by the light of god (as that ignoramus put it) WILL most assuredly DO SOMETHING.
They can't help it. As the Templars fictionally put it in PCLAND..'God Wills It'.
Then, the pc idiots will caw and yack about the dead, and about why didn;t we know enough to act, but we will act THEN.
Or we will be grownups and act before.
At the least, the Israelis WILL act. Of course we will then have a regional war, but hey...
illustr8rg8r - the Iranians may be full of BS; but don't forget that they are also full of cash thanks to their oil supplies. Hitler was also full of BS, and the French could have wiped him off the face of the planet during the "Phony War", but the "peace at all costs" types didn't, and a massive 6 year blood bath ensured. During the Phony War Hitler become stronger and stronger. Hitler knew that war is as much of the will as the hardware. Hitler gambled that the English and French would not have the WILL to oppose him, even though they had the hardware to wipe him off the face of Europe in 1939 - and guess what? Hitler was right. The Muslims look up to Hitler, they know his history, and they know our will.
Don't forget that the Russians for over a decade now have been arming the Iranians with sub's that not only are nuke capable and undetectable, but also leave the best that the USA has for dead. The Russians have also been arming the Iranians with planes that are also nuke capable, and are more than a match for any USA planes.
The USA has been buying "books not bombs" for the last 10 years and disbanding huge swathes of her army/navy to pay for it. A legacy Clinton must be surely proud of (the lefty academic were, not that they had any conflict of interests or anything!).
It's part of the reason that even if he didn't believe it (but I think he does) Bush had to say "Islam is Peace" after and since 9/11 because quite frankly, the USA army is incapable of taking on the Muslim world. Let's face it, they can't even subdue Afghanistan or Iraq, let alone catch some pig humping Muslim called "Bin Laden". How does the poem go? "All the kings horses and all the kings men........" You don’t think that these signs of weaknesses show to the Muslim world that in her current state that the USA is a spent force?
Then we have the whole underbelly of Russia - which is both poor, Muslim, and FULL and nuclear weapons from the Cold War. How do you think all these "Islamo-stan" countries are going to get food and cash? Why sell the nukes of course to their Islamic buddies who have the cash, and now thanks to our Universities (“books not bombs/ Islam is Peace!”), have the people skills to use and develop them.
Iran doesn't need an army either. All you need is nukes, a few Islamic Terrorists to do your bidding for you, and BINGO! Plus they already have how many millions of Muslims in Eurarabia , the USA and Australia?? They will wipe a few Western cities off the map before we wake up and smell what the Flower Power types have been shoveling to us.
Furthermore the USA will NOT invade Iran due to the Iraq debacle. It is to politically sensitive and the USA election terms are not "ripe" to undertake such an action. Let's face it, politicians in the West care about themselves, not their countries. Furthermore the USA army is already stretched (“books not bombs” is really starting to pay dividends – for enemies of the USA!) , they can’t even get new recruits (as in Australia – although I believe our Aussie gun laws have a lot to do with that – guns are “evil” why use them and be “evil”) . As the Cronulla riots showed, people are willing to mass against an enemy, but only when leaders identify whom the enemy is. Our political leaders won’t (“Islam is Peace”), hence our armies cannot recruit, our armies are stretched, our people are blind (so why fight? Just what exactly is the “war on terror”?? – if I’m going to die in the army fighting “it” – I want to know what I am dying for! – but I don’t!), and finally, our enemies rejoice!
OT, but probably by now everybody's heard about Ariel Sharon's massive brain hemorrhage.
To me, Sharon should be held up as the paragon for how to resist Islam: Take a stand and fight. Talk the one language that Moslems can understand.
3rdtimelucky writes:
"Don't forget that the Russians for over a decade now have been arming the Iranians with sub's that not only are nuke capable and undetectable, but also leave the best that the USA has for dead."
Care to reference a respectable source which shows
that the Russians could even make such a sub?
Sorry, I don't believe this! The Russians would
sell anything, to be sure, but they couldn't
build it.
Alarmed Pig Farmer - I think Sharon has caved in with the "pull out". I am hoping that Ben Neten... (excuse the spelling!) gets in. He understands fully that if Israel gives up the West Bank it will lead to Islamic invasion followed by nuclear war (as Israel will be indefensible). He also fully understands the history and betrayal of the Czechoslovakian people by the West in WW2 - and he draws conclusions for Israel today with that (don't trust the Euro powers for your security - they will sell you out). In fact in the essay that I read of his, he explained that the language the "Palestinians" use today ("occupied territory" etc) was EXACTLY the same as what Hitler used in the media to build his case with the Sudaten (Sp) Lands in Czechoslovakia. Which makes sense, apart from killing people, have your ever known a Muslim to be original?
Me too, I have an hard time believing the russians could roll out anything superior, or even equal, to what the americans can do. Since a decade minimum, the russian dont have the academical and economical ressource, nor the willpower, to equal the americans, military speaking. Its not even their objective. When the URSS fell, institutes like Harvard and co went into Russia with truc loads of money, and literaly emptied and bought reaserch centers of all kind.
America's naval are air power aren't overstreched. Only the ground forces are. Then again, they have started to massivly withdraw the ones in Europe and Asia.
If you want to appreciate the distance between America and the rest of the world, read this little article.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/carriers.htm
You can compar England to France, France to Germany, Germany to Russia, but you can't compar any individual countries to the americans. Its just not the same scale.
I feel like screaming from the rooftops, that people
who talk about "boots on the ground" are making a
huge mistake.We don't need to invade Iran to stop
it's nuclear program, nor do we need to have bases
close by. Our enemies understand asymmetric warfare.
We need to play to our strengths.
We can destroy the sites from here. Not sure exactly where they are? Destroy all of the suspected sites.
Not sure we can penetrate the hardened facilities?
Destroy the areas surrounding the sites.
On the plus side, making an example of Iran would
do wonders for our image in the mohammadan world.
It would be an image of strength.
Ariel, "Arik," Sharon doesn't look like he'll make it, raising questions. I think this paves the way for the return of Netanyahu who looks tougher on the Arabs, BUT, he's also the one who continued with Oslo give aways to Arafat, but he's been clear and provacative on Iran, ie the military should wipe the Iranians nuclear capacity off the face of the earth. Such a move is good for peace(in the real sense of the world). Sharon was almost 80 and literally worked up to the day of what may be the end. Totally off topic to this board, I see patients all the time in my practice who are older than 75 and quite a few still work--and the ones who don't retire and continue to work are definately the happiest.
American –
The main sub in the USA navy (as far as I know) is the Ohio Class Trident type. It is 560ft long, 18700 tons, and has a 42ft beam. Speed 20+ knots. Single shaft, 60,000shp.
It has 24 tubes: Trident II D-5 (4-6000 mile range)
Cost : $1+ billion each.
Plan: 18 (9 in Pacific; 9 in Atlantic)
- The Trident creates cavitation, causes bubble collapse etc. Passive sonar: SOSUS net; ship bourne and aircraft sonar bouys.
The main Russian sub (the type Iran has) is the Typhoon. It too is 561ft long. But is 25,500 tons which is larger than British WW2 cruiser, HMS Belfast)
Speed: 25knots; depth unknown (40kts @ 3000ft??)
It has DOUBLE TITANIUM HULLS which gives it a big advantage in depth, speed, and survivability in combat.
It has 2 shafts; 2 power plants (double that of the Trident – again improving it’s combat ability); 75,000shps.
Under Arctic Operations:
It has retractable hydroplanes;
Upper works strength;
CCTV equipment aft.
20 tubes; ss-20 SLB; 10MIRV’s; range 4300nm (5000mi)
Each Typhoon can hold up to 200 cities hostage – EACH.
Russians are experts in R&D in non-acoustic subs; magnetic and electrical fields; wake and thermal energy, biolumninescence etc. (They were working hard on this technology during the “Books not Bombs” era of the Clinton government!)
It is silent, undetectable. Experts say it is the ultimate weapon.
Source: Dr Chuck Missler K House “Gog and Magog” supplementary notes. (yes he is a USA Christian; but he is also ex-Navy engineer and work in the upper echelons of R&D in the USA Navy, he has also been a CEO on many a large USA company)
Don't forget guys - the Nazi's had the same attitude towards the Russians in WW2 that the Russians (being "backward" and all) were inferior in terms of military equipment. To the Nazi's horror not onlt was the Russian T-34 and tanks after that superior to what they had, but so were new models of Russian planes. The Russians had the best tanks of any country in WW2, the USA at the May Day parade in 1945, Moscow were shocked to see how far advanced the Russian tanks were. The Russians may have a 2nd world economy, but they have a First World Army. Think about that sub that sunk recently, why do you think that the Russians DID NOT WANT help? It's because their subs are WAY AHEAD of the rest of the world. Think about the Cold War also. The Russians could NOT compete with the USA airpower. The next best alternative? Subs!
You can see from the stats, that the Russian subs are larger, more powerful, and stronger. Russia is cash poor - how do you think they get money?? There is a reason the Muslims buy arms off Russia rather than France, Germany, or England (all of whom are very friendly towards Muslims), or for that matter the USA - the Russian hardware is good, tuff, and VERY capable. The Muslims in the ME may buy USA planes, but they buy Russian subs for the same reason! You don't spend money on second best when preparing for war.
The fact that this joker is still alive proves we are not fighting the war against Dar-al-Islam (I refuse to call it the war on terror, PC newspeak that that is). Just as the fact that Pakistan got to say "no" to pursuing bin Laden proves it.
The rest of the world is (save .au, .il & some of .uk) either directly allied or at least complicit. They shouldn't get a say.
If we must clean up TROTW's mess, then we do it our way.
/wants COL Hunt's TKA (terrorist killing agency) to be a reality.
I meant to say "the war against Dar-al-Islam... seriously. PIMF
May Day parade in 1945 - should be '46
Actually no - I think it was '45?? Anyway who cares - my point being, the Russians trumped the world with their tanks in the 40's 50's when they were a "third world" economy; we shouldn't be so arrogant to think that they can't do it again. Look at the AK-47, albeit partially copied off an earlier Nazi/German version but it is still one hell of a army rifle. Russian military hardware is not to be under-estimated.
American I read your link - it was all air power. Nothing on subs. Aircraft carriers can be seen, detected. Subs can't - they are far more dangerous in a total war situation.
The Russian sub may look good on paper but that does not necessarily mean much.
I don't discount the Russians, and I don't trust them, but I think their main investment is in the Rocket Forces, and nuke-war survivability.
Iran MUST be stopped and WMD must be eliminated from the muslim countries. These fruitcakes are not civilized enough to be trusted. Which is a no-brainer here.
First-- God bless Ariel Sharon.
Onto Iran: Iran must know that, like North Korea, the second they strike outside their territory, their land will abruptly become much, much flatter. And if they nuke anyone, Tehran and other major cities will be transformed into smoking, radioactive craters.
It's a tossup as to whether Ahmadinejad or Kim Jong Il is dumber with respect to the likelihood of their pulling the trigger, but it seems like there's somewhat more leverage worldwide-- if only we can harness it-- to keep Iran from milking the brinkmanship tactics for all they're worth.
My longtime favorite source of information on military hardware has been the Federation of American Scientists. It seems like they could be more up-to-date, though I'm not entirely sure how much that's possible given the secretive nature of the arms industry.
At any rate, they're very comprehensive:
http://www.fas.org
FAS's US Navy Page:
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/index.html
Should've specified the early Ariel Sharon. Steadfast. Any Israeli leader, less a demigod, would've folded under the withering Arabism of recent American administrations.
3rdtimelucky;
Just so you know, you can't buy a 688 or an SSBN from the US for love or money. These boats are nothing if not secret, secret, SECRET.
Iran is mimicking Stalin's bluffing tactic used brilliantly and most effectively in the 1945-1949 period, before Soviet Russia's spies and Fifth Column traitors (Klaus Fuchs, etc. in England and the Rosenbergs, etc. in the U.S.) managed to steal the A-bomb secrets throroughly enough to duplicate:
-bluster, threaten, intimidate and divide your opponents with seeming "mad" behavior, absurd declarations and contradictory promises and threats.
While we are busy trying to figure out what the hell the Iranian leaders "really mean", what they are actually doing is buying time through our confusion while they rush their nuke program forward underground.
All we need to know is what Islam preaches, ultimately: total victory for the Muslim cult and the utter subjugation or annihilation of all infidel opponents.
The name of the country under its rule is immaterial.
The doctrine of every honest Islamic state is the same: We are the Rulers; you the dogs. Submit or die.
It appears that only the U.S. will seriously fight this global theocratic madness. Our coalition "allies" are wavering, at best (Britain, Poland, Denmark, The Netherlands, Japan and Israel) and militarily too insignificant to matter against a billion potential militants without the U.S. arsenal and troop strength to back them up, since Europe's self-castration under the umbrella of defense provided by America since WW II.
Russia, meanwhile, is trying to use any influence it can to destabilize the West, as is China, for their own myopic gain. (As if the Islamic uber-termite won't be burrowing into their region next.)
The rest of Europe and the world are either intimidated (France, Germany, etc.) or indifferent (South America and most of Asia).
This apocalyptic Game of Chicken will end up with the mullahs roasted if they aren't brought back from the fatalistic brink they seems to find as mesmerizing as a chalk line draw from a hen's beak.
And if the Iranian people do not rise up and destroy their demented leaders, they will suffer their rulers' otherwordly lemming arrogance. And fricassied fate.
For a hint of what the tenor on the "street" in Iran is check out:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/01/04/opinion/edacker/.php
Too bad some of you who are willing to do this, that, and everything else; aren't running Washington and the EU.
The stomachs in those places aren't so strong; the sound of rattling knees is something to behold. Right now the politicians are looking every which way to appease the beasts in Iran.
Truly sickening!
Well decision time is approaching -- March 2006 is the begining of hunting season.
Opps... one slash too many at the end of the address above - it should be:
http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/01/04/opinion/edacker.php
Sheik-- watched the O'Reilly/Letterman debate last night, and came away feeling good about it because I think Bill came out on top; he had the audience with him by the end, too.
I used to be a bigger fan of Letterman before the Cartoon Network started its late-night block, but I've been a fan over the years because of his comedy, not his politics. He should stick to the former.
That reminds me, as someone had posted yesterday, Our Intrepid Leader will be on The Lee Rogers and Melanie Morgan Program on KSFO (560 AM) at 7am PST tomorrow.
From the KSFO website:
7AM: ROBERT SPENCER
Director of Jihad Watch and author of The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam, says muslims are held to a lower standard than westerners.
Looks like it'll be possible to listen online:
http://www.ksfo.com
3rdtimelucky,
What constantinople said is what I was
going to write, with the one mistake being that
we do not sell (or make!) diesel military subs
any more. The Israelis have three state of the
art German subs, not because German subs are
better than ours, but because we don't make
diesel subs or sell nuclear ones, hence we
don't sell anyone our subs.
When I asked for a respectable source, yes,
I was excluding that guy.
OPTION #1) Surgical air-strikes over selected targets specific to Iran's nuclear program.
LIKELY OUTCOME: Probable short-term degradation of the program. But the attacks will provide both an impetus and a justification for Iran to explode a nuclear device as soon as possible to deter future strikes. Extended repercussions involve the world's worst nightmare: nuclear war and nuclear terrorism.
OPTION #2) Accept Iran's membership in the nuclear club as a fait accompli.
LIKELY OUTCOME: In addition to the above-mentioned extended repercussions, we'll also see a legitimation of the pursuit of nuclear weapons throughout the region, resulting in proliferation that may encompass a half a dozen countries or more.
OPTION #3) Regime change.
LIKELY OUTCOME: An end to the program as the new regime seeks the cooperation and support of the international community to help in its inevitable struggle to consolidate itself.
METHODOLOGY FOR ACTION: Regime-change in Iran simply cannot be accomplished via the Iraqi model. Iran is too vast and populated for a conventional invasion/occupation. And the US military is currently woefully over-extended as it is.
Steps that could to be taken to accomplish Option #3 (unlikely by this snake-bitten Administration):
1) Immediately organize an alternative leadership for Iran made up of prominent Iranian exiles living in Europe and the USA to constitute a government in exile.
2) Those members of the Iranian Mujahideen still camped in Iraq should be given the option to pledge their loyalty and join the new government as the beginnings of its military wing.
3) Propaganda blitz; preparing the American public and the world for the coming conflict. A major selling point should be that we are acting now in order to spare the world the carnage and destruction of a future nuclear exchange.
One major psychological advantage we have is the precedent of Iraq; the world (and the Iranians) are already on notice that we will act unilaterally if need be to protect our interests. Quite obviously, we don't have the luxury of time, so a prolonged diplomatic dance is just not in the cards. But we should consult with allies and interested parties, explaining our motives.
Critically, it has to be communicated to the Iranian people that their government - through its reckless ambitions - will bring about the destruction of their country, and that the one way to avert a massive bombing campaign is to turn the regime out. Encouraging a campaign of mass disobedience and demonstrations will transform the world's attention from impending war to Iran's internal dynamic (and the chance to avert war). We might consider going as far as to issue explicit warnings that if the regime fires on demonstrators, this will be considered an act of aggression against the Iranian people and will trigger a US intervention, with the nuclear facilities, all Revolutionary Guard compounds and the Intelligence Ministry to be first-line bombing targets.
It's a long-shot, but it's possible that if the right kind of psychological pressure is applied, we could precipitate the collapse of the Islamic Republic without firing a shot. Some creative thinking and steely reserve are what's needed (along with alot of muscle in place to back it up). I don't think the Bush Admin. is up to the task, but I could be wrong.
In the likely event the mullah's crack down, we're in it, but only after the world - riveted at the unfolding drama - has watched as Revolutionary Guards fired on peaceful demonstrators.
Another considered option is to encourage the Iranian military to sieze power from the mullahs in the name of preserving the country from destruction.
I'm not positive which option is the right one. The third is the most comprehensive. Sometimes true recklessness is the unwillingness to take decisive action while one still has the chance.
I know one thing: Iran is the litmus test. Either we face them down or nuclear weapons will become standard-issue throughout the Middle East.
Iran is attempting to talk tough with Europe, Israel, and the United States. But Iran is in a weak position vis a vis the west.
All that Iran can do is threaten to cut its supply of oil to western nations who import their oil and make outlandish claims which are intended to annoy and incite fear in the west. Iran has a less than robust economy that is dependent upon oil revenues and little else.
Iran is controlled by an Islamist nutcase who will use every trick in the book to corral support for his agenda to acquire nuclear weapons.
Russia and China like to destabilize the west by coming to Iran's defense, however, they probably wouldn't do much if Iran was attacked.
The United States and her allies should stand up to Iran and send a strong message that it needs to come clean and cease its efforts to develop muclear weapons.
It will always be easier to confront an Iranian regime that doesn't posess nuclear weapons than one that does.
American & Constantinople I concede I'm no expert on the subs.
But don't write off Missler as a "religious fanatic" just because he is a die hard Christian.
In fact from what I see, he is one of the few in the USA who uses his influence to speak out CONSTANTLY (well almost) about the dangers of Islam to the USA and the West in general. He puts his life on the line doing so publicly, as do many of his peers. What would you prefer? Millions of Bible thumping Christians in the West who know and speak the truth about Islam (thanks to the likes of Missler) or millions of ignorant Christians in the USA and West willingly letting in the Muslim hordes?? A fanatical Christian is much easier for an atheist/Humanist to live with than a fanatical Muslim. Missler does put his money where his mouth is. Don't forget that Bible thumping Christians, well aware of what Muslims do to our brothers and sisters in the "3rd World", are in the forefront of telling all who will hear in the West about the "joys" of Islam. I’ve met a few of these brothers and sisters here in Australia, and they play an important role in informing the West (take the two Daniel’s in Australia for instance).
I didn't say either that the US sells subs - all I am saying is that the ME Muslims are supplied by Russia with some very high tech gear that rivals the USA gear - which should be a real worry to ANYONE in the west - especially when you combine it with Islam. Am I a military hardware expert of modern weapons? No way! But I do know that Missler has some very good navy credentials, so who is right? I don't really care - it's all-moot. Why? Iran being supplied by Russia is a real worry - especially when the USA forces are stretched. One only had to see how the communists defeated the West in Korea (stalemate) and Vietnam to see that technology of Russia is not totally “inferior”.
Yes I could be wrong on the Russia v's Yank subs. I hope to God I am. I hope the USA has a few "aces" up her sleeve, and doesn't fall into the same trap as the Germans in WW2 by under-estimating the ability of the Russians to produce war winning hardware.
It must be assumed that Iran is not bluffing. The United States has never bluffed in the nuclear arena. The US nuclear posture during the cold war was based on the mutually assured destruction (MAD) doctrine that depended on both actors behaving rationally. Iran is not rational. It's leaders are motivated by a belief systems that irrationally presumes that they will be victorious in any conflict with the Infidels. The United States is serious about its willingness and ability to use its nuclear weapons and to underscore that willingness and ability it has made extensive information about its strategic forces available to the public. The US wants the world to know that its capability is real. I highly recommend a careful examination of the USSTRATCOM website.
Contrary to popular belief, NORAD is not the place from which the actual command to launch a nuclear strike is issued. USSTRATCOM is the source of that command. The facility that promulgates that command (NCA) is the USSTRATCOM, i.e., it is the actual place where "the button" is physically located.
On the morning of 9/11/2001, it was decided to transport the President of the United States to the USSTRATCOM Command Center where he would be as close as physically possible to the source of the NCA command promulgation system. Karen Hughes called it "undisclosed secure location". Never in the history of the world were we as close to global nuclear winter than on that fateful day. I have often wondered if the USTRATCOM Command Center was catered that day.
No offense 3rdtimelucky but...
It was'nt hardware that decided Korea or Vietnam. Korea ended up a stalemate because of fears of it escalating into a direct confrontation with the USSR, and the fear of Chinese manpower.
Vietnam was a similar situation, and a "stalemate" had been "won", through the destruction of the Viet-Cong proxies of the North shortly after Tet'68. The (communist-sympathizing,or were they just Pragmatic?) American congress cutting off all aid to our allies in the South is what handed the North the opportunity for victory.
As far as Soviet hardware winning WW2, I would say that Soviet production and manpower was the main factor, not so much technical superiority. Plus the Soviets had the advantage of space.
The T-34 was superior to German hardware initially, but still the loss/kill ratio favored the Germans. The Panther and Tiger were both technically superior to Soviet counterparts, but it was production that doomed them. Technical superiority only goes so far, there must also be a quantitive accounting.
Actually, the German tanks suffered from being too quality-oriented, which made mass-production on the scale necessary impossible. And they were put into service too soon, thereby giving the Soviets time to upgrade their own stuff as a counter-measure.
"Technical superiority only goes so far, there must also be a quantitive accounting."
In the skies over Lebanon in 1982, Syria lost over 70 planes, about a third of its airforce, while Israel lost exactly 2. The Syrians inexplicably held back their advanced Mig 23s and engaged the Israelis only with their less capable Mig 21s, which were no match for Israel's F-15s.
In the 1st Gulf war, US superiority in technology and command and control were instrumental in quick and decisive victory. Iraq had many more tanks and artillery in theatre than the Coalition troops. It made no diff. Control of the skies and pinpoint accuracy from attack aircraft negated all Iraqi quantitative advantages.
Technical superiority made all the difference in both conflicts.
The "terrorist in chief" Sends a lap dog (oops!)flunkie to threaten us? I guess he didn't have the balls to do it himself. I guess it has something to do with the fact that the hostages from 1978-79 still remember him, and just maybe he dosen't want to draw attention to that memory. These Iranians must think that we're all like Jimmy Carter. No talk, no action. I'd love for them to try something. Anything. Ali Larijani's mouth may have signed a check that Iran's Muslim ass can't cover. He's in error if he thinks that we'll just stand by and let them carry on their nuke program without something to say or to do about it. "Further than a verbal or psychological war". "Unleash hell" Keep it up, we'll show you a war and hell you won't believe. Don't make the same mistake that the Japanese made in 1941. We'll unleased the hell known as the U.S. Marines!!!
"These Iranians must think that we're all like Jimmy Carter."
To this day, I'm amazed that this flagrant violation of international law wasn't answered by a concerted closing of all foreign (or at least allied) embassies in Iran as an act of solidarity with America. Canada was the only country to break relations with Iran...and even this was only a trick to clandestinely evacuate US diplomatic personnel who had taken refuge in the Canadian embassy.
In the negotiations to release the hostages, Carter Administration members of the UN-US delegation agreed to virtually every demand from the Iranian side. It was the UN members who put their foot down and insist that Iran comply with standard diplomatic convention.
In other words, it took the gelatinous spine of Jimmy Carter to turn the UN into a hawkish defender of international law.
Americans are capable of unleashing plenty of hells of their own as they proved in WWS II and I.
And as the Japanese and Germans found out and as these guys are about to.
If HE wants to experience hell on earth he's talking to the right people-US!
Muslims forget WE have plenty of nukes too. Enough to send every one of them to their non-existant pie in the sky.
The Oil Cartel did not care about the US invading Iraq because they were more scared of Saddam then we were.
But if we invaded Iran, then the Oil Cartel will be afraid of us and who knows what the consequences will be.
Iran is a piece of cake for our military, but what would be the reaction of the Oil Cartel and
what they can do to the world's economy.
This is the equation that Washington has to deal with and I doubt that they have the answer.
This is the real threat and time is running out.
Last month, the Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Terrorism, Technology and Homeland Security chaired by Kyl, held a hearing on the electromagnetic pulse, or EMP, threat.
"An electromagnetic pulse (EMP) attack on the American homeland, said one of the distinguished scientists who testified at the hearing, is one of only a few ways that the United States could be defeated by its enemies – terrorist or otherwise," wrote Kyl "And it is probably the easiest. A single Scud missile, carrying a single nuclear weapon, detonated at the appropriate altitude, would interact with the Earth's atmosphere, producing an electromagnetic pulse radiating down to the surface at the speed of light. Depending on the location and size of the blast, the effect would be to knock out already stressed power grids and other electrical systems across much or even all of the continental United States, for months if not years."
If Iran has the above capability then we have to act soon!!!!!!!!!!
Cornelius, my friend. It wasn't Jimmy Carter's anything that helped in the release of the hostages. It was the election of Ronald Wilson Reagan aka "Ronaldus Magnus" to the Presidency. The United Nations, back then just like now, couldn't negotiate a proper right turn. With Instructions!!! The Iranians Islamofeces knew that "Ronaldus Magnus" was not going to negotiate anything but how they wanted to die!!! Think about it. The hostages were released right after "Ronaldus Magnus" was sworn in as President!!! Thus helping to embarass Jimmy Carter.
Cornelius, my friend. It wasn't Jimmy Carter's anything that helped in the release of the hostages. It was the election of Ronald Wilson Reagan aka "Ronaldus Magnus" to the Presidency. The United Nations, back then just like now, couldn't negotiate a proper right turn. With Instructions!!! The Iranians Islamofeces knew that "Ronaldus Magnus" was not going to negotiate anything but how they wanted to die!!! Think about it. The hostages were released right after "Ronaldus Magnus" was sworn in as President!!! Thus helping to embarass Jimmy Carter.
No question Ironman. And they further stuck it to him by waiting until the inauguration before the jet left Iran.
But there WERE negotiations by a joint US/UN delegation during the Carter Presidency to secure the hostages release. One participant later went public, describing the atmospherics.
He wrote that Carter's people agreed to every single demand of the Iranians without a single counter-proposal...and that it was the UN members who were insisting upon the Iran's adherence to international law and convention.
Of the course Carter was fighting a re-election campaign while the UN members were facing no such pressures. I just thought, given today's perceptions about UN-American differences on how to resolve the world's problems, it is ironic how the hawk-dove equation was reversed at that particular moment in history. And it could only have been so with the likes of Jimmy Carter in the Whitehouse.
PS - Let us not forget how the Iranians took Reagan for a ride, securing arms and spare-parts for their American-made arsenal by releasing kidnap victims in Lebanon.
At one point, there were six kidnap victims. the US delivered 3 C-130s full of arms....and three were released. 3 more were kidnapped over the next week. The policy was a disaster.
Though I'm a great admirer of Reagan, he was played for a fool by the Iranians. Let's not get too giddy in trumpeting his policy towards Iran vis-a-vis Carter's.
Interesting how selling arms to the Ayatollah - technically legal via executive order even though we had slapped an arms embargo on the country - was a bizarre policy that shored-up an avowed enemy and was antithetical to US interests....but arming the Contras - technically illegal because of Congressional intervention - was a rational policy that clearly served US interests.
Cornelius; Ronaldus Magnus wasn't prefect. I didn't like the fact that he sold arms to Iranians, but he did it to combat communism in Central America. To support the Contras. But re-election or not, Carter was an abysmal failure in this hostage crisis. His only bold move was a secret rescue mission into Iran to free the hostages which failed because
1. His budget cuts on the military left them without the new parts needed to maintain proper maintenance on military vehicles.
2. The mission was running low on fuel. Thus
3. Causing President Carter to abort the rescue mission.
Result: Dead American Commandoes. One downed US helicopter!!!
The Iranians had a field day with his failure, bringing about national and world wide embarassment for the American government and people. Because of Jimmy Carter, the United States lost face in the international community. This cost Mr. Carter a second term as President. The United Nations move slow on Mr Carter because there was no sense of intestinal resolve. No backbone!!! The United Nations had no respect for President Carter!!! And judging by the landslide victory of Ronaldus Magnus to the Presidency, the American people gave Mr. Carter a solid vote of no confidence. The Ayatollah may have took Ronaldus for a ride, but they (with the United Nations) gave President Jimmy Carter the business.