1938 Update from Reuters, with thanks to the Constantinopolitan Irredentist:
TEHRAN (Reuters) - Iran threatened on Friday to halt snap U.N. inspections of its nuclear facilities if it is taken to the U.N. Security Council, and Britain said the council would consider sanctions if Tehran defied international demands.The United States and the European Union's three biggest powers said on Thursday that nuclear talks with Iran were at a dead end and Tehran should be brought before the Council.
Iranian Foreign Minister Manouchehr Mottaki said such a step would have "consequences" for the West.
"The government will be obliged to end all of its voluntary measures if sent to the U.N. council," he said.
You push one down and UP POPS THE WEASEL elsewhere on the board. From Saddam to Mahmoud. We've traded in a nut-job in for a nut-ball. Such is dealing with the leaders of Islam.
Let's send that old Swedish bitch Hans Blix into Persia, he'll straighten everything out.
How's this for a solution? Since the evil U.S. and Britain bungled the unwise
invasion of Iraq, we should just stand back and let Europe (France,Germany and
their sycophants) run the whole issue. Since they seem to think that they
have all the wisdom and we are the crude brutish louts, if I were GWB I'd
simply tell the Euros that it's their call. They should be told that the
solution is up to them, however, we will respond with our entire might if
or when their solution falls apart. Maybe then the rest of the world will wake up?
Sad thing is, that Iran is firmly in the driver's seat, thanks mainly to the fact the the Europeans decided to waste 3 years in a splendid display of what their "soft power" is capable of... They are the ones who refused to take this to the mat right after our stunning defeat of Iraq -- The mullahs were very nervous at that moment, and the Europeans thwarted our momentum by their pathetic and shrill weakness...
Ugly case of tail wagging dog...
Part of me is actually *cheering* Iran's increasing nutballism, in the hope that they wind up exposing Islam for what it really is.
Part of me is actually *cheering* Iran's increasing nutballism, in the hope that they wind up exposing Islam for what it really is.
Over the past several weeks there has been a intense series of meetings --- alternately held in the offices of CBS, CNN, ABC, FoxNews, NBC, and PBS --- with officials from State and many professors from prestigious Ivy League universities on how to make sure that the image of Islam is unharmed after Mahmoud sets off his bomb. Or Osama. Whoever.
The word is that they are close to finalizing a contingency plan comprising false frames, fake lexicon, image repetition frequencies, roster of Moslem talking heads, roster of Dhimmi talking heads, situation-based talking points memos, etc.
Apparently some of the prestigious Ivy League professors have been assigned to pre-write a series of sympathetic magazine articles and contemporary historical analysis books.
Being an active participant in the subversion of world freedom ain't easy. These people are working nights now.
Seems like we could get some help from our friends, the Israelis. Check out this story.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48327
Bush says he wants to resolve the Iranian nuclear crisis through peaceful means.
Farmer.. what you said about the far left whack jobs doesn't surprise me. My favorite fantasy about them is that some higher power with a sense of humor gives them an apt orfice for their face.
After all of the Lies and Deception...
What difference would it make if Iran doesnt allow inspectors now...
They either are really close or already have enough to begin production....
They are just trying to buy time so then can hook a bomb up to their own missles and being production...
I say hit them now before they hit us..
... some higher power with a sense of humor gives them an apt orfice for their face.
I've always thought that professors from prestigious Ivy League universities were pursing their lips out of disain for our lack of comprehension.
Could it be that Liberals are undergoing a genetic adaptation to result in an Anus Mouth in the middle of each of their prestigious visages?
Could it be that Liberals are undergoing a genetic adaptation to result in an Anus Mouth in the middle of each of their prestigious visages?
On that line of thought if it progresses then they will literally do what most of us think they're doing any way. Talking ... :)What a great Friday. I just grossed myself out.
Aside from bombing campaigns on Iranian territory which I do not rule out (and, by the way, I see no REAL reason why the USA cannot step in and apply its hard-core military muscle once again despite the hollering and hectoring from our Euro-nonfriends like France and Germany), there could possible be at least two ways out of this frightful nuclear mess:
Two things are common knowledge about Iran:
First, the masses of Iranian people, most of whom are under 25 years old, have for the most part, grown very, very weary of Islamic totalitarian rule which has lorded it over these people for over a millennium. Iran was once the seat of a great civilization, of course, and in the hearts of the Iranians there is a detectable yearning to reclaim the greatness that was once their nation. In short, the Persians are growing ever more resentful of the Islamic mullahs who rule over them with an iron fist. The western democracies are stupid not to take advantage of this, as they certainly SHOULD BE making use of this reality to their advantage as it might yield significant benefits especially in the war against terrorists. The Iranians are basically on OUR SIDE in this stand off!
Secondly, the Iranian Revolutionary Guard of Tehran can be proven to have been a ringleader in such recent atrocities as the Sudan jihad war (about which I have read accounts that the I.R.G. has conducted from behind the scenes and even supplied much of the weaponry and militias used by Khartoum against the southern Christians) which has claimed at least 2 million lives since 1983, and the international human trafficking trade, and even the slave trade in many areas of Africa. In short, the Iranian mullahs are known to have committed crimes against humanity outside Iran and they cannot hide this. The Iranian mullahs could successfully be prosecuted in an international court of law for crimes against humanity. Why not? America did this with Saddam Hussein's regime which to my mind was a smaller fish in the pond.
I see no reason why the western nations could not issue warrants for the arrest and prosecution of the Iranian mullahs and make an appeal to the Iranian people and, with their help, forcibly remove them from power. As has been established, the Iranians generally cannot wait to lose these creeps and this would be one method by which this dream of theirs cold be made to come true. I have no doubt that with the help of the Iranian people the Mullahs could be removed from power. And with their disappearance, the notorious Iranian nuclear power project should likewise bite the dust. It would be necessary to recruit some Iranian moles to ensure that we can locate the mullahs and their henchmen and capture them (shades of the Iraq War).
And, should the above not appeal (whatever, I think it would be much better than nuking these unfortunate people who I actually like as a whole and think deserve America's help) in a recent Wall Street Journal editorial it was brought up that the United States has considerable economic clout in the Middle East and if it decided to impose trade sanctions against the Iranian government, it could easily weaken the Mullahs sufficiently to empower the Iranian people to force them out by themselves. Perhaps if this is done, the western democracies could THEN go after the Mullahs and ayatollah fanatics and other assorted fanatics like Ahmadinejad and prosecute them for crimes against humanity. As I say, once these fanatics are gone, Iran's nuclear weapons scheme will likely disappear with them as well.
pythagoras is correct. I have an Iranian neighbor who travels back there from time to time and has told me many of the people there are hoping we will invade their country. Imagine that, we might actually get the "liberator treatment" we were hoping for in Iraq.
I think random bombings would be unsuccessful however. We should target specific things, being careful not to kill any civilians. I think a leaflet campaign and beaming radio and TV propaganda into the country first would be in order.
I would also like to see us use the Persian/Arab racial divide as a wedge to weaken the enemy.
Europe= Parent (MOM)
Iran= Child (JOHNNIE)
"Now...JOHNNIE (iran), when we get to Aunt Jane's house, I want you to sit down and behave." "OK, MOM (europe)....."
"Now...JOHNNIE (iran), what did MOM (europe) tell you at home?" "You told me to sit down when I get to Aunt Jane's house." "Good boy..."
They arrive to Aunt Jane's house, and JOHNNIE (iran) immediately starts running. MOM (europe) looks toward JOHNNIE (iran), and softly speaks to her child, "What did I tell you JOHNNIE (iran) before we came to Aunt Jane's house....now sit down! If you don't stop running.........MOM (europe) will have to start counting to TEN."
ONE.....TWO.........THREE.......JOHNNIE (iran) gives her a defiant stare back.................
FOUR..............FIVE..........JOHNNIE (iran) starts walking away from MOM (europe)......displaying a mean little grin..........
SIX............!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JOHNNIE (iran) is down the hallway..............SEVEN............
"I just don't understand what get's into JOHNNIE (iran), I warned him to sit down in your house before we got here, but you know how children can be..........."
"JOHNNIE (iran).......MOM (europe) is on EIGHT NOW.....DO YOU HEAR YOUR MOTHER (europe) SPEAKING?????"
"NI................NE, JOHNNIE (iran).....MOM (europe) is on the number NINE..........., NINE......NINE.......NINE........NINE..........NINE..........NINE...!"
JOHNNIE (iran) turns left toward the dining room....eyeing the beautiful clear crystal vase on Aunt Jane's table........
"JOHNNIE (iran)!.........JOHNNIE (iran)!.........your MOM (europe) is almost to the number TEN! I am almost at TEN... JOHNNIE (iran)......You know what happens to JOHNNIE (iran) when MOM (europe) gets to the number TEN?"
"J....OHN...NIE (iran)!!!!! Do..n't........tou..ch......the...V........A...SE!"
Alarmed Pig Farmer: "Over the past several weeks there has been a intense series of meetings --- alternately held in the offices of CBS, CNN, ABC, FoxNews, NBC, and PBS --- with officials from State and many professors from prestigious Ivy League universities on how to make sure that the image of Islam is unharmed after Mahmoud sets off his bomb. Or Osama. Whoever."
Alarmed Pig Farmer, what is the source of this information?
Victor Davis Hanson has a great article about the bad choices we are currently facing with regards to Iran:
http://victorhanson.com/articles/hanson011306.html
One quote particularly stands out:
"We remember that in 1981 the world did not blame the reckless and greedy French for their construction of a nuclear reactor for Saddam Hussein, but the sober Israelis for taking it out."
To support this trenchent quote, I would like to direct your attention to something I put together last year, based on actual quotes from the New York Times following that 1981 event:
http://www.6thcolumnagainstjihad.com/Rublev_P2.htm#pre-emption
pythagoras said "First, the masses of Iranian people, most of whom are under 25 years old, have for the most part, grown very, very weary of Islamic totalitarian rule...the Iranians are basically on OUR SIDE in this stand off!"
Oh sh*t, here we go again. The vast majority of the "moderate" Muslims are being controlled by a few "radical" Muslim leaders. The Iranian people share our values and goals, and hey, we're pretty nice so I'm sure they want to be our friends too. If we just get rid of their oppressors, the people will welcome us with rose petals and uulations...
This interpretation worked so well in Iraq, let's start using it as a model throughout the Islamic world. Let's continue depending on the Islamic man-on-the-street to defeat those few lone Islamic radicals.
Sad to say it, but these are probably the sentiments that we will begin hearing from our leaders in the next few weeks and months.
Alarmed Pig Farmer, what is the source of this information?
That's my point, Stendec. The fact that one could even consider it possible bespeaks how far we have sunk into Dhimmitude.
Lets see....where did I hear "welcomed as liberators" before?
It seems the only thing a muslim man hates more than his own government is the US
Alarmed Pig Farmer,
Well, I was worried you were going off the deep end. We must not spread rumors here on JW/DW. I'm not saying you were trying to do that; that's just the way your posting hit me, and I missed the sarcasm. My motivation for asking the question was to protect Robert, Hugh, and this site from unwarranted attacks, to the extent that is even possible on a subject such as this. Peace be upon you, as the Muslims say.
Why do they insist on "dialogue". All muslims understand is force, that how they spread there killing cult and hence the same should apply in putting an end to the foolishness.
I say give the israelis the green light to bomb the shit out of that reactor...if anyone complains tell them to suck salt!!
If we keep at the pace of the french nad hte germans in the near future we will all need radiation suits as part of our traveliing gear.
C'mon!! In 2006 someone has to show me the CAJONES!!!!
As the immortal Starsky of Starsky and Hutch fame once said..C'mon do it, just do it, do it DO IT NOW!!
Sorry for the false alarm, Stendec. Whenever I talk of media you can assume the most vile sarcasm on my part.
As the immortal Starsky of Starsky and Hutch fame once said...
That movie is a Modern Classic.
Say, that's a fake moustache you're wearing!
When they visited Big Earl at the State Lockup, well, that was cinematic art at its best. The bar mitzvah gift pony going down in the garage from multiple gunshot wounds was also sublime.
Elad:
Great link to worldnet. This is the most encouraging news I have heard in a long time. Apparently the Israeli air force has a March 1 deadline to fly bombers out of Turkey. I can't believe that Turks would let them do this.
Up until now I have always thought the mission unfeasible, but this development really changes things. If this happened, it would really complicate the Turkish relations with Iran as well as their own internal politics. Maybe Turhey doesn't like the idea of the 12th imman with nukes either.
As far as the greeting us as liberators line, keep in mind that it was basically accurate. I saw all kinds of footage of Shiite kids waving at the US tanks and dancing for joy during the initial phases of the Iraqi invasion. Bwtween the Shiites and the Kurds, you have about 80% who wanted the invasion and accepted its results. No such reaction would be forthcoming if such an action were to happen in Iran.
Although many in Iran are tired of the Mullahs, the present regime in no way has anything close to the record of oppression, brutality or torture as Saddam. We would not be seen as liberators and any US sympathers would quickly side with the mullahs.
Although many in Iran are tired of the Mullahs, the present regime in no way has anything close to the record of oppression, brutality or torture as Saddam. We would not be seen as liberators and any US sympathers would quickly side with the mullahs.
-GFB
Thus it appears you would simply maintain the status quo and allow mad mullahs the bomb eh? I cannot accept that.
Turns out that Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was a professor. I wonder if he was prestigious.
Iran can dealt with, and it could be done now.
This nuclear project can and will be taken care of, and will be done at a time of our choice, and without warning.
If the path that Iran is on continues, then one night they will go to sleep, the next day they will wake to destroyed facilitys, and bombs falling from the dark.
Thw wests (V9.11) of terror.
I found the following section at your stie too deja vu. Oh, the insanity.
Three years later, the Reagan administration is duped by Pakistan:
"If the word of the government of Pakistan and the word of the head of state is doubted, you can offer 200 explanations and you can't remove the doubt,” he said. President Zia has repeatedly pledged to the Reagan administration that Pakistan's nuclear program is purely peaceful, as a condition for securing $3.2 billion in military and economic assistance, including the delivery by 1986 of 40 advanced F-16 jet fighters. (Karen Elliot and Peter Khan, Wall Street Journal 7/10/84
It's way overdue for the West to be waking up to the threat from Iran, but better late than never. There isn't much time left before they reach the point of no return, but it's a window nonetheless.
Vital Perspective has great analysis on the next step for the West - and also some 'kind words' for the Coalition of the Weak Knees (New York Times & Co.)
"Thus it appears you would simply maintain the status quo and allow mullahs the bomb" post from Kafir Nonbeliever
The next step is to bring the issue to the security coucil and impose sanctions. The negotions with the European three have served only one purpose for Iran - to stall for time while they continue to work on their program. These European "diplomats" actually believed that they were negotiating. They have only succeeded in wasting valuble time.
Iran might be more vulnerable to sanctions than Iraq was. The mullah police state is not nearly as extensive as Saddam's was, and discontent would be harder to suppress.
But see the first part of my previous post. The Israeli air force is going to solve this whole problem. What's the old saying, "a deal that sounds too good to be true is, too good to be true."
Iran hid their nuclear program for two decades.
Nothing will stop them from attaining their own Pakistan-style Islamic Bomb.
The oil-addicted West (especially Europe) will not risk economic hardships from OPEC price hikes or "engineered shortages", and the U.S., having failed, from Jimmy Carter on, to implement a Manhattan Project level crash program to free us from the recurrent blackmail of oil embargoes, will wring its political hands, mimicking the self-neutered EU response.
'Diplomatic' dithering will continue until the fait accompli of Iran with a bomb is accomplished by the cunning mullahs.
What is curious about this present concern over a group of "extremist" Muslims getting hold of the secret of armageddon-power is:
-why was there no equivalent worry about Pakistan's atom spy creating their own bomb, and who, for his crimes of secretly proliferating the nuclear secrets to fellow Muslim nations, merely got "house arrest"?
Pakistan is a semi-out-of-contol hotbed of Taliban/madrasa maniacs, and, once Musharref is assassinated, the true face of that demented Islamic republic will appear. A twin of Iran. With an atomic arsenal already at hand.
No one in the West's leadership seems likely to oppose our slow suicide until the first Koranically-inspired nuke hits us.
We fear "the global Muslim backlash" if we act pre-emptively in Iran. So we bide our time and wait for them to annihilate one of our cities first.
Then, with "righteous anger", we can take off the pussyfooting gloves and act the way we know we should be acting NOW.
A pity hundreds of thousands of our brothers and sisters will have to die before we do what we already understand is vital for our survival.
3,000 murders ...in one hour... just wasn't painful enough.
So, I sadly say: let's get the slaughter of one of our cities done with so we are then "allowed" to destroy our sworn enemies as we must.
We're idiots, but such is the self-loathing self-division of the will-less West.
I know I'm risking this post getting deleted, but I'll re-iterate a suggestion I heard on Michael Medved's program about a month or so back (from a caller): Have nukes anonymously dropped on Iran's nuclear sites, like Natanz, Yazd, Isfahan, et al. Let all the anti-war crowd then move in with their geiger counters to determine whether Iran was working on nuclear weapons.
Only thing I'd add - while they are at it, drop one on that well in Qum, to prepare an appropriate reception for the 12th Imam/Mehdi (whatever its called). If after all that a glowing imam does emerge, then declare Ahmadinezad the Caliph of the world, and everyone worldwide bend over Mecca-wards.
The Islamic republicans would then learn to recognize a real halo from the fake one that the Iranian diplomatic corps in the UN claimed to have spotted on the wannabe ayatollah.
http://www.claremont.org/writings/crb/fall2004/helprin.html
Worth the reread on more than just neutering the threat from Iran.
"The next step is to bring the issue to the Security Council and impose sanctions."
-GFB
My friend, you live either in the past, or in a fantasy world. The world is neither "uni-polar" i.e. American controlled, nor is it "Euro-centered" as John Kerry fancied it to be. The once great powers of Europe are small compared to Russia, China and India. Their loss is NOT a consequence of "decadence" as some on this board assume, rather it is about economic power, large populations in huge developing countries, the loss of the manufacturing base, control over resources (mainly due to large territories owned), loss of colonial resources/empire, and the ever increasing ability of developing countries to spend ever more on resources. Couple this with Europe's low/negative birth rate, and you get the idea.
China and Russia are building up Iran to weaken us. They seek to inflate the crazy Shiite Muslims since they knew them to be a thorn in our side. TO them, it is a check on American power. What a dangerous game they are playing those wretched Chinese and Russians. But neither Russia nor China wants Iran to have nuclear weapons. Ironic, isn't it? Thus they hope we will swallow the Iran bait, and choke on it, thereby weakening the US. However, we have no desire to occupy Iran, as some may think. Thus, with our huge air power, we can manage it.
Consider also that Russia and China wield veto power in the UN. So even if we get the "powerful" allies and friends - UK and France on board, does that amount to much? The UK and even France are allies! Believe it or not, France is not really that different from the US and that is the problem. Pitifully, France still fancies itself a player on the world stage, which frankly, it is not. Like France, we Americans believe ourselves more powerful than we really are because all of the things that are weakening Europe apply to the US except population decline that we keep in check thru massive immigration. We have not come to terms with ascending powers like China. France opposed the invasion of Iraq, for several reasons, but chief among them was the problem that it effectively nullified the UNSC, the very place that little France has its coveted (by India and Germany)/sacred veto power.
The US and the UK, are seeing just how futile a referral is. President Bush is fully aware of the opposition inside of the UN itself. That is why the administration ingeniously attempted to make an offer to get Russia to get the money it wants by enriching the uranium inside Russia (presumably with foreign oversight), and then shipping the end product to Iran. Russia fell for the trap, but Iran did not.
Sadly, an assassination on President Mickeymouseajob failed a few weeks again. Arming insurgents inside of Iran is also occurring, but Iran is wise to that and is carefully conducting checks inside of homes, especially in Khuzestan - the home of Iranian Arabs who are both poor and sitting on much of Iran's oil wealth. Iran is anticipating our EVERY move.
There is no other solution but to let the bombs fly my friend. Sanctions will not work because, even if the UNSC allowed them (highly unlikely since Russia sells billions in arms to Iran, and China just singed a t 70 billion contract with them), they are unenforceable. I’m afraid the ONLY solution is not to invade the country (we cannot since it is so vast and mountainous and could lead to our getting involved in another ground conflict), rather we must strategically bomb the country and arm the opposition which we hope can take over the country relatively peacefully. But I must warn you all that this operation will be infinitely more dangerous than Iraq. But if it is not done now, we will not be able to do it in future.
Iran was a starting point to the very recent Islamist movement. Iran’s mullahs are a cancer that must be cut.
Simply put we cannot live with a nuclear iran because the concept of mutually assureed destruction does not work with them and because of the portablity of nukes (backpacks, off shore attacks with spent or even full nuclear devices). I have not mentioned all scenarios, but I have presented logical possibilities. Add to the mix a belief in fatalism, support for global terrorism and boom.
Iranian opposition:
WWW.ncr-iran.org
"But I must warn you this operation will be infinitely more dangerous than Iraq"
What would happen to the Straights of Hormuz if Iran is lit up like the 4th of July? No oil tanker would risk going through, thus shutting down a major part of the wrold's oil supply. This could creat pandamonium on the world oil markets.
How deep can bunker buster bombw really go? Can they penetrate all of the hardened sites? Do we know where all of the sites actually are? We really don't have much intelligence in Iran.
Would US troops in Iraq or British troops in Basra come under heavy fire?
At least we had a few coutries such as the British, Poles, Italians etc with us in Iraq. I doubt we would have any support at all for a preemptive strike on Iran.
If Iran launched a missile with a warhead towards Israel, how could they be sure that they wouldn't hit the West bank or Gaza as well, with nuclear fallout to other surrounding coutries in the area?
We shall see what happens.