Iran warns US, Britain of missile response if attacked

1938 Update from AP, :

TEHERAN – Iran’s Revolutionary Guards chief warned the United States and Britain on Saturday that Iran would retaliate with missiles if attacked, state-run television reported….

“The world knows Iran has a ballistic missile power with a range of 2,000 kilometers (1,300 miles),” Safavi said on state-run television. Israel is within that range.

“We have no intention to invade any country. We will take effective defence measures if attacked,” he said.

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Comments

  1. says

    Peace In Our Time?


    Before I come to describe the Agreement which was signed at Munich in the small hours of Friday morning last, I would like to remind the House of two things which I think it very essential not to forget when those terms are being considered. The first is this: We did not go there to decide whether the predominantly German areas in the Sudetenland should be passed over to the German Reich. That had been decided already. Czechoslovakia had accepted the Anglo-French proposals. What we had to consider was the method, the conditions and the time of the transfer of the territory. The second point to remember is that time was one of the essential factors. All the elements were present on the spot for the outbreak of a conflict which might have precipitated the catastrophe. We had populations inflamed to a high degree; we had extremists on both sides ready to work up and provoke incidents; we had considerable quantities of arms which were by no means confined to regularly organised forces. Therefore, it was essential that we should quickly reach a conclusion, so that this painful and difficult operation of transfer might be carried out at the earliest possible moment and concluded as soon as was consistent, with orderly procedure, in order that we might avoid the possibility of something that might have rendered all our attempts at peaceful solution useless…

    . . . To those who dislike an ultimatum, but who were anxious for a reasonable and orderly procedure, every one of [the] modifications [of the Godesberg Memorandum by the Munich Agreement] is a step in the right direction. It is no longer an ultimatum, but is a method which is carried out largely under the supervision of an international body…

    …The army, whose courage no man has ever questioned, has obeyed the order of their president, as they would equally have obeyed him if he had told them to march into the trenches. It is my hope and my belief, that under the new system of guarantees, the new Czechoslovakia will find a greater security than she has ever enjoyed in the past. . . .

    Chamberlain read this statement to a cheering crowd in front of 10 Downing St. and said;

    “My good friends this is the second time in our history that there has come back from Germany (Iran) to Downing Street peace with honor. I believe it is peace in our time.”

    Iran threatens action if attacked

    In the role of Neville Chamberlain, using awfully clever carrot-and-carrot diplomacy, Jack Straw.

    There is growing pressure to refer Iran to the UN Security Council, but American Senator John McCain said yesterday that it was important to maintain the “leverage” of the military option.

    Jack Straw, the Foreign Secretary, rejected talk of military action against Iran, saying it was “not on the table”.

    Mr Straw was speaking ahead of talks with Mohamed El-Baradei, the head of the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA).

    He told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme: “There is not a military option. There certainly is not one on the table, let’s be clear about that. And no-one is talking about it.

    “I have never had a discussion with any senior American from the very top downwards, except to say the military option is not on the table.”

    But is there a military option?

  2. says

    We have no intention to invade any country…

    Who exactly is we?

    If it’s Persia, they’re probably telling the truth. If it’s the Moslems, then they’re absolutely lying. The nebulous we is one of the many fine features of Islam that is catapaulting it to victory, to Global Sharia.

    Think about it, Condi and all her counterparts in the West are flitting about the planet in private jets arranging for the useless scowling Moslem to be imported into Dar al-Harb in order to receive the welfare and begin pissing and moaning and the like.

    That’s a winning formula in my book.

  3. says

    And if those missiles were also destroyed in the first strike, along with the potential nuclear bomb making facilities?

    I suppose then it’s back to sending assassins around the world as the Iranian maniacs usually do.

    (I guess the ‘military option’ that Jack Straw is so afraid of mentioning or acknowledging or entertaining must be in the drawer of said table, and not on top of it. A telling diplomatic point, since who knows how long it would take to open that drawer?… it may be sticky, with swollen dovetails joints from disuse or the damp English climate, or maybe Jack left the key to it in his other pants and would have to take a cab home to retreive it… all of which could add up to hours before they could get that pesky ‘miliatry option’ back on the table and out of that damned drawer.)

  4. says

    The punch:Israel/US/West attack Irans nukes.

    Counter punch: Iran sends off some missiles.

    Counter-counter punch: Iran ceases to exist.

    End of the fifteen minute war…

    Over so quick none of Irans buddies are fast enough to help.

    Bye-Bye mullah dudes…may your former mosques be populated by millions of Zoroastrians.

  5. says

    What used to be sword-rattling is fast becoming a showing of actual steel.

    I think conflict is at hand. Jack Straw is just part of a snowjob tactic. It’s not like Allied forces are going to telegraph the intent to open fire.

  6. says

    Get the war started already. The longer we wait, the more anti aircraft weapons they get, the more they launch spy satellites. Bring the satellites down NOW and destroy Iran’s mullahs. We don’t even have to admit having vaporized the satellites.

    However, I do not want troops in that country. The 65% (more?) of the popluation that hates us will await our troops with anticipation (of killing us). Only special ops forces should enter to eliminate the nuclear sites. Perhaps some special forces to aid “resistance” forces. Other than that, no one ought to be on the ground. Let them seethe in their anticipation of the arrival of the infidels (and the mahdi) with glorious throats to slice.

    I am also not opposed to using targeted “reverse explosion” nuclear weapons to destroy Iran’s deep underground bunkers.

    Iran has chosen its fate. Give them what they crave: death.

  7. says

    Declared nuclear weapons states:
    __________________________________________________

    United States United States
    Russia Russia (formerly the Soviet Union)
    United Kingdom United Kingdom
    France
    People’s Republic of China
    India
    Pakistan (1998)
    North Korea (2003)

    About India’s program:
    India tested a “peaceful nuclear device”, as it was described by their government, in 1974 (“Smiling Buddha”), the first test developed after the creation of the NPT, and created new questions about how civilian nuclear technology could be diverted secretly to weapons purposes (dual-use technology). It appears to have been primarily motivated as a deterrent against China and had been developed in collaboration with U.S.S.R . It tested weaponized nuclear warheads in 1998 (“Operation Shakti”), and also claimed to have tested a hydrogen bomb (though the truth of this is debated). In July 2005, it was officially recognized by the United States as a “responsible nuclear” state and agreed to full nuclear cooperation between the two nations. This is seen as an “official” entry into the nuclear club of the above nations.

    About Pakistan’s program:
    Pakistan covertly developed its nuclear weapons over many decades, with active Chinese assistance, beginning in the late 1970s, and tested its first fission devices in 1998. The main reason as to why Pakistan began its nuclear development programs was in response to India’s so called “peaceful nuclear device” the “Smilling Buddha”, Pakistan fearing for its national security began its nuclear development projects and by the 1980s it was suspected that Pakistan had successfully developed nuclear warheads, yet this was to remain speculative until 1998 when Pakistan conducted its nuclear testing at the Chaghaii hills.

    Suspected nuclear states
    __________________________________________________

    Israel
    Israel is not a member of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and refuses to officially confirm or deny having a nuclear arsenal, or to having developed nuclear weapons, or even to having a nuclear weapons program. Although Israel claims that Dimona is a “research reactor,” no scientific reports based on work done there have ever been published. Extensive information about the program in Dimona was also disclosed by technician Mordechai Vanunu in 1986. Imagery analysts can identify weapon bunkers, mobile missile launchers, and launch sites in satellite photographs. It is believed to possess nuclear weapons by the International Atomic Energy Agency. Israel may have tested a nuclear weapon along with South Africa in 1979 (see Vela Incident). According to the Natural Resources Defense Council and the Federation of American Scientists, they may possess 300-400 weapons, a figure which would put them above the median in the declared list.[10]

    North Korea.
    On January 10, 2003 North Korea withdrew from the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. In February 2005 they claimed to possess functional nuclear weapons, though their lack of a test has led many experts to question whether or not they have a working weapon. They have recently signed a treaty with the United States, promising to give up all of the supposed nuclear weapons and programs.

    States formerly possessing nuclear weapons:
    __________________________________________________

    Ukraine
    Belarus
    Kazakhstan
    South Africa

    States that possess the technology to build nuclear weapons, but abandoned their nuclear programs:
    _________________________________________________

    Argentina
    Australia
    Brazil- NOTE: STILL SUSPECTED
    Egypt
    Nazi Germany
    Iraq
    Imperial Japan
    Libya- ??
    Poland
    Romania
    South Korea- NOTE: STILL SUSPECTED
    Sweden
    Switzerland
    Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia

    Other nuclear-capable states that have not instituted a nuclear program:
    __________________________________________________

    Canada
    Japan
    Italy
    Lithuania
    Netherlands
    Saudi Arabia
    – Saudi Arabia – In 2003 members of the government stated that due to the worsening relations with the USA, Saudi Arabia was being forced to consider the development of nuclear weapons. However, so far they have denied that they are making any attempt to produce them. Rumor has it that Pakistan has transferred several nuclear weapons to Saudi Arabia, but this is unconfirmed.
    Venezuela
    – In 2004 Venezuela’s president Hugo Chavez expressed interest in developing a Nuclear reactor with the help of Argentina, critics claim that it might be a stepping stone for Venezuela developing nuclear weapons in response of US military training of Colombian armed forces and possible US Invasion. Venezuela ratified the NPT. In a recent statement US President George W Bush said the US has no objections on Venezuela acquiring nuclear technology.

    Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_with_nuclear_weapons

    Please note that I ommited Iran for obvious reasons. I thought this list might be helpful to see the big picture. Please do not infer from ym posting this list that I support Iran’s nuclear program. I do NOT. I want it destroyed.

  8. says

    “We have no intention to invade any country. We will take effective defence measures if attacked,” he said.”

    Note what he said: “we have no intention to invade…” he said nothing about having no intention to simply attack with nukes.

  9. says

    These governments only understand force, not reason. Destroy the Iranian government and there is no one to give the order to attack. For security, destroy all their nukes also.

  10. says

    The comments of the Iranian leaders lead this American Patriot to but one conclusion. They need some hot steel shoved up their ass…and it needs to happen in short order.

  11. says

    Just so you know, The United States will not invade or take any significant military action against Iran, not after it has worked so hard to build it up.

    Iran is the new “Evil Empire” the United States needs in order to begin a whole new “Cold War”.

    The powers that be in the United States will now have more than enough justification to start building new and improved weapons and delivery systems, build whole new defense systems including orbiting weapons platforms and new and improved stealth bombers and supersonic fighters. How far away are we from robot fighters? The XBox generation will go WILD!

    And the number one customer after the United States military will be Saudi Arabians – they sure will want the latest and greatest now that there is a threat right in their front yard and they have all that US fossil fuel money just burning holes in their pockets.

    Yup, it will be Happy Daze for the United States weapons builders and civil rights oppressors.

    The Bush regime and the hawks that follow will now have a legitimate reason to continue eroding away at the civil liberties and guarantees afforded by your constitution.

    All those legal rights were just getting in the way of making the western world a good Christian society that wants to teach creation and abolish abortion and wants women to assume their role in society as is prescribed by scripture. And absolutely NO gay marriages!

    Sound familiar?

    Bar

  12. says

    If the US decides to take out Iran’s capability to attack, Iran will not have anything left to retaliate with. One tactical nuke and Tehran would be a smoking hole in the sand.

  13. says

    Iran can shove their nukes right up their own ass and push the button.

    It’s time for the international community to strap on a pair and deal a death blow to these maniacs before they start WWIII because once that pandoras box is opened then all hell is gonna break loose on earth

  14. says

    Bill The Crusader: “…this isn’t the democraticunderground, idiot.”

    Wow Bill, very astute of you.

    I think Robert Spencer encourages free speech – do you know better?

    I am also making a prediction and describing some of my conclusions – are you unable to argue my theory without becoming rude?

    Perhaps it is you that is the idiot.

    Bar

  15. says

    blazar-jet–You have a good point about the military industrial complex being peachy keen over this. I only see one flaw in your argument. What makes you think the Iranians won’t shoot first? They really don’t seem to care what the rest of the world thinks of them. Right now there are no real options the US or the EU can do to remedy the situation. I think the best one I have heard so far is to get out of Iraq and let the Iranians and the Saudis have their proxy war. Let the war drain their economies, not ours.

  16. says

    Caratacus: “What makes you think the Iranians won’t shoot first?”

    I am certain the Iranians will not shoot first!

    Lets go back and look at the expulsion of the Shah in 1979. After 25 years of brutal tyranny sponsored and supported by The United States, the revolutionary Iranians invaded the US Embassy and took 66 Americans hostage.

    Not a single hostage was tortured, injured or subject to a rendition flight or GitMo Bay interrogation. All 66 hostages were eventually released unharmed.

    I can tell you this, the revolutionary Iranians showed much greater restraint than the US ever has.

    Lastly, it wouldn’t serve the weapons makers if Iran were to be rendered harmless too soon.

    The US has digested Iraq so now Iran can now take control and turn it into a virtual vassal state once the US forces reluctantly leave (forced out by the weak willed leftist Dems, no doubt).

    Without a hostile Saddam Hussien on their border, Iran can now grow unchallenged into the new and improved “Axis of Evil” cough “Evil Empire” for a whole new “Cold War”.

    The Saudis now have something to fear right across the Gulf so they will spend all those fossil fuel dollars on new and improved weapons, delivery systems and defense systems, all from America, BABY!

    The United States can now repatriate all those fossil fuel dollars, repatriate US jobs (can’t be offshoring defense contracts) and get rid of all those pesky civil rights that interfere with making The United States of America the model right wing christian country it was always meant to be.

    The Saudis will be so busy wondering what Iran/Iraq et al is going to do that they just may forget about all those mosques and madrasas they were planning to build in America? They may even be forced to take a firm stand against their own Islamic hardliners and deal that movement a financially crippling blow.

    Bar

  17. says

    blazar-jet,
    I wish I could share your confidence. Iran is the largest supporter of state terrorism in the world today. I believe every word little Mahmoud says. The world has to be in chaos for the 12th imam to return and I think that is exactly what little Mahmould is striving for. I doubt the “thinkers” in the Pentagon and Foggy Bottom, let alone the White House have thought this through. I see no viable scenario for a US attack. We don’t have enough troops to be successful (I am referring to a conventional type war). Far better to let the Sunnis and Shia slug it out. Iraq is one hell of a tar baby, as Hugh says, let someone else get stuck to it.

  18. says

    It still astounds me that there still exists imbeciles like blazar-jet.

    The world has prospered under Christianity.

    God defined murder as the taking of innocent life which defines abortion. It is my heart felt conviction that God will not condemn abortions to save the mother or due to rape or incest. Years ago I asked God what the penalties for abortion are and what I saw you do not want to see. Those that have intentional aborted an innocent life with out reason will continual live through all of the abortion they performed as the one being aborted until the end time when their souls are destroyed in the lake of fire. What abortionists do is no different that what Hitler did to the Jews and what Muslims do today. You can not be an abortionist and be a Christian. Abortionists’ souls are lost and can not be regained.

    God has made it clear that marriage is between a man and a woman. God has also stated that homosexuality is an abomination and that makes homosexual marriage an abomination (unacceptable to God). If you want to live as an homosexual that is your choice. It is my choice not to recognize homosexuals living together as marriage. If this makes you feel unacceptable, that is your problem.

    The Texican

  19. says

    I’m in big trouble.

    Last week, I sent an email to my teacher, describing the subject of my essaie. I said I wanted to discuss the case of Iran, why I was in favor of the preemptive strike doctrine, because of how Iran couldn’t be trusted with nuclear thecnology. I also said I wanted to draw parallels between the crisie resolution methods with Iran, Irak, and the Suez Canal in the 50s and Munich in 1938, to see how international cooperation evolved, or if it did at all.

    Well, he replied, he’s not happy, and he’s a convinced leftist, and he wants to see me in his office this monday to discuss my views. Maybe I should bring tea and cookies, what do you think?

    He believe that the fact that Western powers wants everyone but themselves to disarm is one of the world’s greatest hypocrisy, and that Europe and America’s view on Iran is merely a dikta and neo-imperialism, and that Iran’s case fit into a grand scheme to round up every dissident country into the Global Capitalist Western Empire.

    Well, whish me luck.

  20. says

    blazar jet-

    Your history of what happened to the Iranian hostages is mistaken.

    Many of them were abused and kept in solitary confinement for months on end, subjected to physical, psychological (and nutritional) torture. (Far worse than ‘Gitmo’.)

    Get your “facts” straight.

    They were only released, finally,
    out of fear that “cowboy Bring-On-The-Apocalypse madman” R. Reagan would overthrow and kill the newly arisen mullahs if anything happened to the captive embassy personnel.

    The Iranians, as in most Islamic countries, only seem to understand “strongmen” in power, identical to their “perfect” warlord prophet, the pedophile Mohammad. The Shah and Khomeini were cut from the same dicatorial cloth, and both fully grasped the craven (“submission”) mindset of the generic Muslim. And exploiting its inherent weaknesses and irrationality. (Mubarak, Musharref, Khadaffi, Arafat, etc. etc. where are the non-dictator Muslim leaders?)

    Whether you think that Iran won’t strike first, or not, is immaterial to the central problem, which is: the mullah-ocracy cannot be allowed (with the current lunatic Mahdi-hungry nutjobs at the helm) to control WMD’s.

    Their fatalistic skulls long for the joys and glory of martyrdom. And slaver openly over the idea of exterminating Israel. (Bringing on the return of the mythical 12th Imam.)

    I’m for containing them and denying the madmen in control anything that might endanger more than their own people. And hope that the disgusted Iranians, themselves, are finally so disgsuted and deprived that they rise up -and string up the ayatollahs from the nearest lamposts (in place of the helpless 16 year old girls now being hanged from construction cranes for sassing the maniacal imams).

    P.S.-

    The U.S. is about as close to turning into a Christofascist land of no freedoms as the Gaza Strip is in becoming the big tourist spot for 2006.

    Crank conspiracy theories have plenty of websites.

    Americans are personally well-armed, and if the government, right, left, or whatever, goes too far toward eroding serious aspects of their Constitutional freedoms and bedrock rights that give the land its savor, the leaders will be thrown out of office.

    It happens every few voting cycles, as the teeter-totter of social changes make certain cultural nuances more or less important. “Gay marriage”, and unlimited “abortion rights”, without any leavening of rational restraints like “parental notice for underage girls” [who cannot even have their ears pierced without such consent] – do not please the present majority.

    But as much as the conservative extremists would like to prevent it, gays will gain civil partnerships in most states, which is the same, rights-wise as “marriage” (a primal cultural institution that most people think should retain its meaning of “for a man & women” alone), and abortion will remain legal in most states, even if Roe vs Wade were declared a non-federally controlled “right to privacy”, as seems likely, by an Alito Supreme Court.

    We like our liberties and will keep them. They may change, somewhat, but shall not vanish under a Jesus-Jackbooted Police State (ho-hum).

    But debates over issues like: when does the “soul” enter the fetus in the womb (if such a spiritual thing even exists) and makes it a legal “person” (and not just a “viable” organism) are part of the permanent discussion in a free society. It is even profound.

    People can disagree about fundamental and ontological essentials- and the Constitution will adapt and be changed to meet new ideas of human worth for as long as the nation continues. Just as the document was amended in regard to slavery, a woman’s right to vote, etc., etc., etc.

    I’d advise you to worry more about the freedoms sadly lacking in every realm under Islamic dominance, from a woman’s insultingly denigrating ‘rights’ under patriarchally-poisoned Shari’ah Law (considered as “only worth half of a man”), and honor killings, censorship, iconclastic irrationality (blowing up the “Bamiyan Buddhas” under the Taliban), Saudi religious intolerance in the root region of Islam, and the current push for a global theocratic nightmare state: The Restored Caliphate. Hungered for by Islamic Imperialists from Fez to Jakarta.

    America will evolve, and the people in the U.S. will “kick out the bums” whenever they get too uppity, greedy, incompetent or ineffective.

    Worry more about the lumberyard in your own eye, and not the toothpick in your American brothers’ and sisters’.

  21. says

    There will be War in the Middle East and across the globe. The War is fastly approaching. The next War will be violent and tens of millions will die if not 100’s of millions. If China comes out of the Far East then it may be billions that die in the next War.

    Our politicians still refuse to take the necessary pubic stance with Islam that War with the West will mean utter destruction of the Middle East.

    And to top it off, it appears that America may have a War along our southern border with Mexico to keep Mexico from taking back the southwest as Mexican President Fox has stated that Mexico will do.

    Inside America there is a 3,000,000 armed Muslim army and 12,000,000 armed and unarmed Mexicans that have no loyalty to America thanks to President Bush for not locking down our borders after 9/11 and hunting down everyone that has invaded America (illegal immigrants – political correctness).

    If live in America, you will go through the WAR regardless if you are a Christian or Jew or Hindu or atheists. The only way not to go through the War is to be killed. The rapture happens after the main part of the War, just before God unleashes his wrath on the earth. There will be untold Christians remaining across the globe to take the Word forward through the Tribulation times. Become armed, stock ammo, learn how to use your weapons and use your weapons when needed to save America and your right to be free.

    There will be War in America and across the globe.

    If you are not prepared for War, become prepared or you and your loved ones will perish.

    The Texican.
    It is better to fight and die free than to ever live in oppression.

  22. says

    posted by Elliot:

    “Well, he replied, he’s not happy, and he’s a convinced leftist, and he wants to see me in his office this monday to discuss my views. Maybe I should bring tea and cookies, what do you think?”

    I think he should stick to doing what he’s paid to do, ie. teach, and I think you should remind him that his job is not political indoctrination, but teaching.

    Seriously, the West has to kick the closet Communists out of it’s media and education systems…it’s just unbelievable what these “teachers” get away with!

  23. says

    posted by Elliot:

    “He believe that the fact that Western powers wants everyone but themselves to disarm is one of the world’s greatest hypocrisy, and that Europe and America’s view on Iran is merely a dikta and neo-imperialism, and that Iran’s case fit into a grand scheme to round up every dissident country into the Global Capitalist Western Empire.”

    Elliot, you can tell that “teacher” of yours, that he needs to crack some books on Islam before he starts spouting off Marxist propaganda in our schools again.

    The simple FACT is, the difference between the United States, Europe and even China and the Soviet Union versus those Islamic nations everywhere, is that the former have proven they have restraint when it comes to the use of Weapons of Mass Destruction, while the suicide bombings that are part of the cultural landscape in the Middle East prove beyond question that a people that hold DEATH in such high esteem can not possibly be trusted with weapons that can create death on such a massive level. Martyrs launching us all into World War III is not something any sane people want to watch develop, but this is exactly where nations like Iran are driving.

    The time for these silly Illuminati conspiracy theories of “hippy” teachers is over.

    Let the ultra-liberals hide behind their trees when the shooting starts, but I sure as hell am not going to applaud for anyone that wants to toss flowers at Hamas or the Mullahs of Iran in hopes of some shakey pseudo-peace that just ultimately leads to Muslim nations to become armed with the means to carry out their visions of “Islam will dominate the world”.

    It’s time to strap on the six-shooters again and clean some house.

  24. says

    Texican

    You have your views on abortion. Wonderful!!

    But push them elsewhere as I totally disagree with you but I will spare you my views as this is not the place.

    As for speaking to God OMG!! Spare us from this also!!
    Believe all that you like but keep it to yourself.

    Your quote:”The world has prospered under Christianity”. Is not really as true as you would think. Christianity paved the way for for humanitarianism but ONLY when power was taken from the churches who showed little evidence of using it to betetr mankind. The current state of the world where most try to be kind and hunmanitarian is due to the teachings of Christ not any religion formed and abused in his name. ORGANISED RELIGION has shown very little tendency to further man and is really only another excuse to kill somebody.

    JC’s philosophy represents the greater good by far which is why I am here but spare us your views about what happens to abortionists as then you are no better than any blunt knife wielding Muslim.

    This is an ANTIJIHAD site not pro extreme Christianity site. Please remember that.

  25. says

    Elliot if you believe in your views and can back them up then take no notice of him. if he fails you then take it to the head of the department or whatever exist in the US for this.

    I have had quite some experience in biased teaching and marking where bigots use their profession to push one view only. That is NOT teaching it is propaganda pushing. If he cannot accept a differing alternative view then he is a bigot and NO teacher. I lost all marks for one question in an exam when my views differed from that of the examiner even though time proved me correct. I asked for a remark but as the examiner was head of the department I received short shrift. He will feel very threatened if you disagree but that is what intellectual courage is all about.

    Post your essay on a forum (even here) and get others to help you polish it up. This may not seem totally honest but in times of prejudice it helps to recruit allies and you will still be writing it.

    Mike_W G’day!!

  26. says

    Zathras, whether you like it or not, many people, in fact the vast majority of people, who could prove very useful in the fight against Islam are Christians and others who believe in organized religion.

    What do you want, you and your fellow atheists to fight Islam on your own?

    Good luck with nothing but your sorry arses to believe in.

    Is the fight against Islam to be limited to devout atheists and agnostics only…the very people responsible for all the relativism, humanism, nihilism, marxism, etc. that have led to the weakened secular West that Islam is currently exploiting.

    Or maybe you will allow them on your team, but only if they never mention the G word.

    Get real.

    PS. does your head spin like the girl in “The Exorcist” when people mention God?

  27. says

    Blazar:

    “Just so you know, The United States will not invade or take any significant military action against Iran, not after it has worked so hard to build it up.”

    “Iran is the new “Evil Empire” the United States needs in order to begin a whole new “Cold War”.”

    Blazar, listen to me. I am gay. I am a non-believer. Ok? Relax. Before you come here and get all worked up, listen to reason. I am here because I am aware of the dangers of Islam. You cannot equate Christianity to Islam. The teachings of Christ (of moderation, tolerance and peace) alone are completely different from Islam. Moreover, Christians are nearly always peaceful and they are increasingly enlightened. It is for this reason that I do not harbor the hatred of Christians that I have of Moslems. Moslems are part of quasi- religious, warlike belief system that threatens the stability of the world. I do not believe that Moslems will succeed in what they want to do, but this alone will not stop them from trying to inflict immense damage on the Western World. Like it or not, Bush is the leader of the free world. As my Commander in Chief, though I sometimes may disagree with his actions, I give him (and my country) my full allegiance.

    Iran possess an immense threat not simply because it desires nuclear weapons and for the following reasons:

    1) The Moslem (in this case Shiite) mindset. The notion that it does not matter that many Moslems die for a greater cause; that if the infidel pigs/monkey Jews (and their friends the Christians) die, it will not have been in vain; that the doctrine of mutually assured destruction does not work in such a case; and

    2) Apocalyptic dreams of Iran; believing that a war (with the West) will hasten the return of the Mahdi, the 12th Imam; and

    3) That Iran sponsors, supports and gives safe haven to terrorists worldwide. Once it has nuclear weapons, Iran will be the safest place on the planet for terrorists; Iran has stated that it will give this technology to other Moslem countries; that Iran can create “portable” or off-shore nuclear devices to bring the West to its knees, or to extort money or make other demands of the West as has been the tradition in Islamic countries; See http://nationalreview.com/comment/london200512160955.asp; and

    4) The Shiite brand of Islam that Iran practices is not radical, rather, it is simply the Sharia or “divine law; the Sharia is pure Islam is any sect of Islam really; Iran is working hard to spread its ideology of hate through its sphere of influence. Perhaps you should learn more about what Islam really is. I can assure you won’t like what you see.

    Moreover, do not fool yourself into thinking Bush created the Islamic republic of Iran. Believing that is rather like believing Saudi Arabia’s most recent claim: the US “forced Palestinians to vote for Hamas”!
    I am far from thrilled with the Bush administration, however, what was the alternative? John Kerry? A man I respect tremendously, but a man does simply does NOT understand the war on terrorism. Mr. Kerry, like myself, also did not know anything about Islam. Before you rant anymore spend some time on this site and others and acquaint yourself with our enemy, “radical” Islam. I place radical in quotation marks because the entire religion is radical to the core.

    Do you like the Moslems because they oppose Bush? Do you think we will find favor with them because we oppose Bush? Is it because the bad Christian white man is the eternal oppressor; that no oppressor can ever exceed his brutality? Have you not seen what fate gays in places like Iran suffer? Does their plight (and that of others, most notably women) not infuriate you? Why are you only concerned with a simple man like George Bush? He may be simple, but at least he understands the threat that our civilization is under.

    “The powers that be in the United States will now have more than enough justification to start building new and improved weapons and delivery systems, build whole new defense systems including orbiting weapons platforms and new and improved stealth bombers and supersonic fighters.”

    You bet your sweet arse we need to upgrade our military superiority. Pax American is alive and well in large part because of our ability to project power. In other words, our military superiority PREVENTS wars. As for advanced weaponry, we desperately need to counter such threats as missile attacks from rogue nations. If you still believe a system such as the missile defense system is a boondoggle, you are a fool.

    “And the number one customer after the United States military will be Saudi Arabians – they sure will want the latest and greatest now that there is a threat right in their front yard and they have all that US fossil fuel money just burning holes in their pockets.”

    The users of oil are increasingly have Chinese, Indian, African, Asian and European money from fuel too. The US by no means the only economy dependant on fossil fuel. I know of no economies that are completely free of oil. As for arms sales, there are those of us here that strongly oppose arms sales to the likes of SA and Pakistan and Indonesia.

    “On the US weapons builders and civil rights oppressors.”

    Iran and its Moslem world are the true oppressors and civil rights violators. Their barbarity knows no bounds.

    The Bush regime and the hawks that follow will now have a legitimate reason to continue eroding away at the civil liberties and guarantees afforded by your constitution.

    I fear this as well. I too believe Alito to be too conservative. So fight the loss of our rights. If is your right, and indeed your duty, to fight to safeguard constitutional rights.

    “All those legal rights were just getting in the way of making the western world a good Christian society that wants to teach creation and abolish abortion and wants women to assume their role in society as is prescribed by scripture.”

    On abortion, I support the right to choice, but like most Americans, I (by the way I am a lawyer) do not see how limiting that right a bit (such as adding a ban on third trimester abortions and parental notification of minors receiving abortions) is hardly ground shaking or extreme as some want to pretend it is. Abolishing the right to privacy, and by extension, abortion, is indeed extreme. I certainly hope that the war on terrorism does not allow people to loose all sanity.

    As for gay marriage, I really don’t care what they call it. Sure I would like it, but I will live with another system so long as I get the full benefits of marriage and it is called something different. Fine. I have faith that Americans see the current injustice in the current system. As long as I can get retirement benefit rules changed to allow for my partner to receive survivorship benefits coupled with the same federal income tax benefits as heterosexual couples get, I really don’t care what they call my relationship. In my own state of California, we have domestic partner laws in the state, which is marriage in every single way save federal benefits. If the federal government would simply change the laws to b equitable with respect to taxes, pensions for military/civilian federal workers and enact laws preventing the punishment of those seeking to avail themselves of state benefits.

    Perhaps if gays demonstrate that we are just human beings, and want to be treated fairly, maybe fair minded people, on this page included, will realize that gays are not all pro-enemy, i.e. pro-Moslem!

    Join me. Join Chirac in seeing the devastating threat that Iran is. Join the late Pim Fortuyn and oppose the greatest threat to our modern civilization: Islam.

    Kindly forgive the grammar mistakes, it was a long day.

  28. says

    Mike_W can’t you let Texican answer for himself?

    Of course, I realise that most here are believers. So what? I am allied with my former debating opponents but for ETHICAL reasons not because of a common belief system. Do you find that more or less comforting? I do not need to have a different belief system to be here I am here because I, not my God or my church, consider Islam evil because of its violence.
    I am also quite happy to be allied with believers as i beleive that the existence of not just civilisation, but mankind is at stake

    However I still am allowed to retain my views which I do not push here until I see posts which appal me. The fate of abortionists and abortionees? what garbage!! Nice God!!

    Your quote:”Good luck with nothing but your sorry arses to believe in”. From your point of view that might be just mildly insulting but my POV it simply shows me that you have no idea
    beyond your own belief system as well as being intellectually quite insulting to agnostics like myself.

    Belief in a God has no problem with me. In fact I use people’s own beliefs to help them personally every day and I am quite happy to do so as I can see the obvious benefits of such a belief and yes, I do respect someone’s belief. That is until I hear the extreme right with their antiabortion rants. I see NP if they believe this but not if they go around squealing it as i find it offensive if posted HERE.

    Why don’t you read what I posted. It has nothing to do with God or a belief in him. It was about the extreme view of some christians and my view of people who claim to hear God advocating violence, either in this world or the next.

    Then they are no better than Muslims in my view.

    I wont bother with any attempts at facetious comments as I leave that to you.

  29. says

    “Americans are personally well-armed, and if the government, right, left, or whatever, goes too far toward eroding serious aspects of their Constitutional freedoms and bedrock rights that give the land its savor, the leaders will be thrown out of office.”

    Amen.

    I have a license. I practice and I carry.

  30. says

    Caratacus: “The world has to be in chaos for the 12th imam to return and I think that is exactly what little Mahmould is striving for.”

    President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is absolutely perfect for the role he will assume for the next 10 years or so – the big bad bogey man of Islam!

    The United States weapons makers need a viable and scary long term enemy that will inspire the same kind of fear that the dreaded “communists” inspired in the 50s.

    Does it get any better than an “Islamic Dooms Day” leader? And a democratically elected one at that?

    Iran will have to finish developing their atomic weapons program and produce some spectactular tests so as to put the American people into a receptive mood to shift full blast into a second “Cold War” economy.

    The USA has begun to languish since the end of the first “Cold War”, nobody was buying their expensive weapons anymore, even the Saudis were balking at further purchases. “Why do we need new weapons when we are not under threat by a major power?”, they are asking.

    The kind of warfare that Islam is waging uses AK47s, bathtub explosives and human delivery systems – nobody can get rich in that weapons environment.

    Since the West has almost certainly supplied all the technology that Iran needs to develop nuclear weapons and the West has cleared the way for Iran to expand its sphere of influence (by destroying the secular Saddam Hussien regime – thank you very much Washington), it is time for Iran to start scaring the good (Christian) God fearing folks in the US of A.

    Watch and see how this plays out.

    Bar

  31. says

    blazar-jet is our resident conspiracy theorist, or 5th columnist, spreading confusion and disinformation…like those SS Germans in Normandy after D Day in WW2 dressed as MP’s.
    Waylaying the unwary, pointing street signs in the wrong direction and generally trying to cause as much mayhem as possible.

    The West is currently full of them.
    People like Chomsky, Kaminski, Chossudovsky.
    Gee, with names like that you’d swear the Russians are coming 😉
    The proof that Kaminski is pure bull-plop is the fact he is still kicking.
    If his conspiracy theories about Bush and Co. were true he’d be dead years ago.

    I wonder if these people know just how dangerous their position will become when the dirt really hits the fan.

  32. says

    Zathras:

    I float in and out of the web between the times that I am working, which I have been working all day at my desk so here is your reply.

    The Texican did not bring up abortion or homosexuality, this was done by Blazar Jet. Get you facts straight.

    As a Christian and a conservative, I will voice my POV concerning anyone that shows intolerance to Christians and other peaceful religions or persons.

    Most Christians are tolerant and will live in peace with homosexuals as long as the homosexuals do not try to foster their life style on others. It astounds me that the homosexual society across the world has not risen up in complete opposition to Islam. If Islam takes over there will no longer be a homosexual society for Islam will murder (behead) all homosexuals per the dictates of the Quran.

    Abortion is murder of innocents. Enough said on both.

    Texican appreciates the support for all out there, including Kafir Nonbeliever.

    There is no reasoning with Muslims. The hate for Jews, Christians, homosexuals, women and all other non-Islamic religions is as old as the Quran. I have yet to meet a Muslim that does not show this. When you have any association with a Muslim, watch the Muslim in a mirror or other shiny object when you are not looking at them direct and see their true self.

    I told the one extreme liberal friend that I have that thinks only the government should have weapons, that when the fighting starts go look to the government for his protection. God has instructed me to protect my family, my religion and my country form attack. I will do this to my death if needed.

    As to your statement that I am no better than a Muslim, you take that and stuff it. Your intolerance rivals that of the Muslims, because you fear that there is a God and you fear that your soul will die in the lake of fire because of your rejection of God.

    So, Zathras and Blazar Jet, yall need to decide if you are part of the solution are part of the problem. Are you committed sufficiently to die to stay free?????

    There are tens upon tens of millions of Christians in America that are ready for the War that is coming.

    If all that you are doing is typing comments on the web and insulting Christianity and other peaceful religions, you are wasting your time.

    If you are not prepared for the War and willing to fight to the death to be free, you and your loved ones will perish or live in slavery.

    You can bank on it that God will help us to defeat the enemies of Christianity and Judaism and save America, Israel, England, and even France – the Western Civilization.

    The Texican.
    It is better to fight and die free than to ever live in oppression.

  33. says

    Texican, you mentioned Mexican Americans not having any loyalty to the US. I dispute this strongly. I remind you that when you the names (and faces) of dead soldiers, they are so often Mexican American.

    This does not mean I favor illegal immigration. However, be careful not to mix ethnicity, race and loyalty. Racism is the greatest weapon of the Moslems. Look at the recruitment in our prisons. Islam is different, it is not a race.

  34. says

    Kafir Nonbeliever:

    If you will read my comments again, my comments were concerning the Mexicans that have invaded America and that have no loyalty to America. Not to the Americans of Mexican descent that have been born in America to American parents or have come to America through the legal process. There is a high percent of Americans of Mexican decent are also displeased and concerned with this invasion from the south. It is an invasion regardless what our federal government calls it.

    The last time I looked at the map of America, I did not see any state or region listed as Mexico-America, Africa-America or even Ireland-America.

    Referring to yourself as any type of modified-American is the way to divide America. This division in America is being fostered by the left to create such disharmony that the left can help corral us into total government control because we as individual Americans can not get along with each other so Big Brother Federal Government has to tell us how to live our life each minute of each day.

    My pen name may be Texican, but my loyalty is to America.

    Either you are American or you are not.

    Enough said.

    The Texican.
    It is better to fight and die free than to ever live in oppression.

    The

  35. says

    Kafir Nonbeliever: “I am here because I am aware of the dangers of Islam.”

    I am not here to defend Islam or communism as some have alluded. I believe Islam is a brutal medieval stagnant sexist messianic belief system requiring total submission to their God. There is much more but I am not debating right and wrong with Islam, either sunni, shi’ite or other.

    I believe the CIA learned something significant about Muslims when they trained armed and funded the majahideen in Afghanistan. After the Russians invaded, the CIA went into “Hot War” mode, spending billions and sending thousands of tons of equipment to the Muslim majahideen. They set up training camps in Pakistan, madrasas, where jihadist Islam was taught alongside weapons and techniques. The CIA imported Islamist fundimentalists from around the world to join in the training and battle against the Soviets.

    Kafir Nonbeliever: “Bush is the leader of the free world.”

    I am sorry but Bush is a liar and a cheat and totally corrupt, as is his party.

    Kafir Nonbeliever: ” do not fool yourself into thinking Bush created the Islamic republic of Iran.”

    Of course not, not alone. I believe Iran has been groomed for this role since the CIA discovered the Muslim majahideen in Afghanistan. I think the US oversetimated the Iranians ability to commit war when it lost hideously to the Iraqis. Even after Bush Sr. went in and trashed Iraq the first time, Iran still didn’t have the balls or where-with-all to conquer Iraq. Now that Bush Jr. has thoroughly destroyed Iraq a singular force the Iranians don’t even have to invade – they can now just assume control of Iraq as part of the Sunni led elected parliment (thank you George W. Bush).

    Ever wonder why Sadr had a get-out-of-jail card with the American forces in Iraq? Do a little checking of his connection to Iran.

    This is getting too long but I would like to thank you for your reasoned and logical response to my revelations concerning US motives and interests – it is certainly NOT what it seems on the surface.

    United States citizens and the world for that matter are being duped as to the real agenda behind American activities in the Guld and Middle East as well.

    The people behind these activities are working for what they believe is the best course for the United States and it’s interests – they truly believe in what they are doing. And in the short term, they may be right.

    Employment will increase in high paying high technology fields of manufacture and investment in military research. Billions in US dollars will be repariated as foriegn allies retool for the new nuclear “Cold War”. US Patriotism will create a new “Buy American” movement that may save the US auto industry and could resurrect domestic production in some traditional fields (clothing, electronics,appliances).

    The US could again proudly wear the mantle of World Peacemaker, even if it is all a farce.

    Best regards Kafir Nonbeliever, we will talk again some more.

    CD ‘Bar’ Baric

  36. says

    Constantinople: “You would probably serve everyone best by investing some time into researching facts”

    What facts are in dispute? Cite me and I will provide sources for my facts that you can check yourself.

    “You simply sound like a hater.”

    I think you “hate” the message. The fact that it may be true scares the Hell out of you.

    I am a Canadian, a father and a grandfather. I am not a communist or a Muslim – I am not a Christian.

    Do you think Bush dreams up US policy on the spot after too much corn liquor? Do you think attacking Iraq twice in a dozen years is an accident? The ONLY secular state in the Gulf?

    Where are the Weapons of Mass Destruction?

    The United States is an aggressor nation with a self serving agenda. A nation that supports torture and other basic human rights violations.

    Your CIA has toppled democratically elected governments when it suited US interests and has participated in the deaths of 100,000s of noncombatants.

    Perhaps it is you that HATES the truth.

    If you have any complaints about my facts, state them!

    Bar

  37. says

    Elliot ,

    Set your facts, refrences, in order. Printed out, everything you used as the bases of what was reported by you.

    Take them with you, and see if he can discredit it. And make sure to take notes of where his ideas are from, study this to find the truth.

    Most here [in ref.. to Islam] use this method in one form or another, and he might think twice about cornering a student who really homeworks in the future.

    Good Luck!

  38. says

    Blazer-jet:

    You won’t be aware of all the facts if you rely on the main stream media.

    Even UN Inspectors stated that in all lielyhood, WMD were moved to Syria.
    Stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons have been found in Iraq, but the MSM doesn’t tell you that since they are anti-Bush.

    There is a lot more to refute your statements and I will end my comments with this question,

    Name one DEMOCRATIC Country that the CIA has overthrown?

  39. says

    blazer-jet, your whole problem is that you think you’ve got it ALL FIGURED OUT.

    I know your sources, and I know how to find THEIR sources, and their sources, and on and on until I reach the ULTIMATE source. I know how they operate too. It’s very easy to take individual facts and then shape a pre-determined, politically useful scenario around them. It’s very easy to detach the facts from context and it’s very easy to ommit mitigating factors. It’s very easy to ignore facts that go counter to the desired pre-determined outcome. It’s also very easy to manipulate language.

    But when your scenario is denied credibility your response is that we can’t handle the truth. That’s funny. The FACT that public schooling teaches SLIGHT variants(which channels the mind towards the basic conclusion of your thesis), means nothing, right? The fact that the MAJORITY of college “professors” at so-called liberal-arts colleges spout the same basic line seems to be meaningless to you, the FACT that the mass-media from varying degrees of outright agreement of some parts and subtle hints to other parts of your scenario means nothing right?

    The FACT that your sources can be traced to COMMUNIST theorists/agitators/useful-idiots means nothing right?
    Yes, there are the books such as” Lies my teacher told me”, or “You are being lied to”, funny how popular they are, and then there’s the propagandist Noam Chomsky, funny how popular he is too. Funny how popular Che Gueverra is too.
    Funny how the openly communist websites all support the core of your thesis.
    Funny how they are in general agreement with the basic premise you are selling, which is, America IS the “Great Satan”.

    It’s also funny how you only single out the “Republican” party as being corrupt.
    I think Dr. Pepper would call a “Pot calling the kettle black ALERT!!” on that one.

    It’s funny too, how the commies are never satisfied, sooooo impatient. But, what works works, eh?
    Yes, WE KNOW SOMETHING IS WRONG, we know there is corruption, we know we are not really represented by those people in the elitist world, and we know that truth is illusive, but sorry, we’ve seen it all before, some of us actually believed it before, but lo and behold, upon checking both sides of the issue what is found is deception, manipulation and simple propaganda.
    I’m not posting to argue or debate with you, there’s no point, I’ve been there-done that(and I have NEVER been defeated),but the fact is debate does not necessarily prove anything.
    My main purpose here is to learn and throw out stuff that I have learned, hoping to peak somebody’s curiousity and stimulate investigation.
    And to counter propaganda.

    You called yourself a “shadetree scientist”, your stuff can’t stand up to real scientific criteria. In other words a more accurate description of you is PSEUDO-SCIENTIST. A very popular movement, and very lucrative as well.

  40. says

    Elliot,

    You are a “radical”(a real one, one that actually risks something, not a fake one), and you’re gonna have to figure out ways to maneuver around in a world with a large population of programed(illogical)drones(like your “teacher”).

    Get books on LOGIC, preferably start with OLDER ones, around the early 1900’s. And preferably ones that acknowledge Bertrand Russells contribution. I would also recommend looking into Logical Positivism/Empiricism which is an attempt at applying strict scientific criteria in the area of philosophy and developing a “unified science”. You may need an older dictionary to make sense of it though. If you force yourself to read through the stuff, things WILL start to dawn on you.

  41. says

    Blazar, it is indeed true that the US did once assist terrorists in such places as Afghanistan. It is also true that the US covertly, and at times, overtly, supported the “theist” Moslems in such places as Egypt, Syria and even in Iran because the US feared the greater expansion of Russian (atheistic) influence.

    All I can say is no one foresaw the pan-Moslem nature of this movement, which is spurred on by globalization (the internet, tv and radio). The other factor was collapse of the former Soviet Union. Its collapse really opened up Central Asia to reIslamification, the Caucasus and of course, parts of the Balkans. These areas mentioned supra are all near the ME and no doubt emboldened the more “ambitious” Moslems.

    As for Iraq, I agree that it was folly. I have always believed that. However, since our fighting men and women are there now, I dare not do them injustice by opposing this war at this critical time. I also believe that whether entered into under false pretexts or not, we are there now. We cannot leave now. Whether we have done the “correct” action only time will tell. In time, the administration will withdraw anyway. Perhaps there is some chance that Bush might succeed. While I sincerely doubt that we will “win”, I hold out that powerful American sentiment of hope that all will be better. More likely however is that we will have spent an enormous amount of money to keep together a non-nation; we will have to simply forestalled a civil war; we will have strengthened Iran.

    I was always of the opinion that Iran was a much greater threat. I do not agree that the CIA created the Islamic republic. You might point to Mossadeq and say, AHA! Really, there is very little in common the suppression of Mossadeq and the establishment of an Islamic state.

    Moreover, because Iran is the real threat- and was all along, I strongly support ANY action necessary to bring Iran to sanity. I am angered that Iraq is absorbing military and financial resources that seem to be emboldening our enemies, such as Iran. It is our relative military weakness due to the Iraq war that allows the mullahs to sleep soundly at night in Teheran. Another argument for more advanced technology to keep us safe, and our Canadian friends too.

    The US is not perfect. We indeed have erred at times. However when we do, the government is criticized and sentences are generally levied when wrongs are committed. However, the US is also no Iran. We are a free country with most of the same Western values as other modern countries. After all, you don’t fear the US will use weapons against you Canadians, do you?

  42. says

    Blazar Jet

    You have no basis for your existence. You do not believe in anything and blame others because they chose to believe. You try to dominate those around you to believe in nothing because it is wrong to believe in God.

    You have accepted the elitists’ venom that all of the world’s ills are due to America and its Christian philosophy.

    America’s democracy is based on the Bible that each one of us have certain inalienable rights of LIFE, LIBERTY AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINESS. As Americans, we have freedom of religion, freedom of speech, freedom to be armed, and freedom to be free of discrimination whether it is for an American to be a Christian or Jew or Hindu or no belief art all and to say so to the world or to have equal opportunity in employment or housing regardless of your sex or race. You detest our rights to be free and believe as we wish.

    Our freedoms in American has been earned through the last four centuries 1776-2006 by the sacrifices of its patriots, most of whom professed to be religious and the majority Christian. America has fought and helped the free nations of the world to defeat imperialism in Germany twice and in Japan once. America is currently fighting in the Middle East to help maintain freedom in the world.

    Those that condemn America think it is ok to condemn and attack America but also believe that Americans do not have the same rights to condemn others that mean us harm for as Americans we have to live with the feel good premise that as Americans we can not say what we really believe because it may upset others. When an American does voice their opinion, they are condemned and attacked and called an extremist.

    When feelings rule and facts no longer matter, you have what we have today.

    The three monkeys of hear no evil – see no evil and say no evil have taken over.
    The ostrich principal is in full force.

    If it is wrong, it is wrong and I will iterate that it is wrong until ill refutable proof is presented.

    Blazar Jet you are as wrong in your beliefs about America as are the Muslims.

    Wake-up and realize that Islam is evil and means to dominate the world — not America.

    Christians, Jews, Hindus and the other free people of the world have to unite to defeat Islam from enslaving the world.

    The Texican.
    It is better to fight and die free than to ever live in oppression.

  43. says

    learjet0450: “Name one DEMOCRATIC Country that the CIA has overthrown?”

    Iran – Dr. Mohammad Mossadegh and the Shah’s
    coup d’état in 1953. By the summer of 1953, the British and American governments initiated a joint Anglo-American plan for the covert overthrow of Dr. Mohammad Mossadegh, the Prime Minister of Iran. The plan called Operation AJAX with Kermit Roosevelt, the CIA Mideast Agent in charge (a grandson of Theodore Roosevelt and a distant cousin of Franklin Delano Roosevelt). “So this is how we will get rid of the madman Mossadeq in Iran” announced John Foster Dulles to a group of top Washington policy makers in June 1953. The U.S. Secretary of State held in his hand a plan of operation to overthrow the Prime Minister of Iran. There was scarcely any discussions amongst the high powered men in the room, no probing questions and no legal or ethical issues raised.

    Guatemala 1954 coup – Arbenz was elected President of Guatemala in 1950 to continue a process of socio- economic reforms that the CIA disdainfully refers to in its memoranda as “an intensely nationalistic program of progress colored by the touchy, anti-foreign inferiority complex of the ‘Banana Republic.'” The first CIA effort to overthrow the Guatemalan president–a CIA collaboration with Nicaraguan dictator Anastacio Somoza to support a disgruntled general named Carlos Castillo Armas and codenamed Operation PBFORTUNE–was authorized by President Truman in 1952. As early as February of that year, CIA Headquarters began generating memos with subject titles such as “Guatemalan Communist Personel to be disposed of during Military Operations,” outlining categories of persons to be neutralized “through Executive Action”–murder–or through imprisonment and exile.

    Nicaragua – CIA funded and participated in bringing down the Sandinista Party.

    The World Court ruled that “the United States of America, by training, arming, equipping, financing and supplying the Contra forces or otherwise encouraging, supporting and aiding military and paramilitary activities in and against Nicaragua, has acted… in breach of its obligation under customary international law not to intervene in the affairs of another state.” Afterwards, critics of the United States’ policy in Nicaragua called it a “blueprint” for successful U.S. intervention in the Third World. A Pentagon analyst agreed: “It’s going right into the textbooks.”

    There are more but I shall stop here.

    Just so you know, much of this information comes from the CIA’s OWN FILES!

    People such as kimtim think this is totally acceptable because he is a fascist and he hates communists with a passion.

    I am very curious about the US citizens universal hate for communists. Communism is a failed doctrine that dooms any coutry to a slow and wracking economic death.

    CD ‘Bar’ Baric

  44. says

    Kafir Nonbeliever.

    You have to see the BIG picture. The US has deliberately created an arena in the Gulf where Iran’s Islamic fundamentalist regime can now grow and prosper. With the removal of Saddam Hussien, Iran can now absorb Iraq, essentially by democratic election, thanks to the efforts of the Bush regime, father and son.

    The weapons makers in the United States WANT a new “Cold War”. The US weapons makers WANT a new “Evil Empire” – don’t you get it?

    Everything is going to plan.

    Once the US Forces are reluctantly withdrawn from Iraq, Iran wins what it couldn’t accomplish on it’s own, even after being supplied with weapons during the Iran/Iraq war – remember?

    Iran has the capability to create atomic weapons which is perfect for it’s role as the new “Evil Empire”. It has even been given a catchy new name by the Bush regime – it is called “The Axis of Evil”!

    The US power elite have worked long and hard to get to this point in history and is not going to wreck it by attacking Iran, that is for sure.

    Hey, if I am wrong then Bush will take out Iran’s nuclear capabilities and that will be that – BUT THAT WON’T HAPPEN!

    Mark my words, Bush will RELUCTANTLY start withdrawing troops from Iraq and the US will eventually admit it was a bad idea to gut Iraq after it is assimilated into Iran’s sphere of influence!

    Bush will blame the godless-left-commie-treehugger-dems for this misfortune and will continue to shrug off responsibility for ALL the innocent lives lost.

    And you good US Citizens will continue with your “US can make mistakes but do no wrong” blinkers on as America retools and rearms for the new Islamofascist Cold War.

    It is kind of sad, no?

    CD ‘Bar’ Baric

  45. says

    Blazar Jet:

    You have put way to much credibility in the misrepresentations by the MSM and the elitist’s propaganda that you have become so brainwashed that you can not see the truth.

    You continue to demean and blame America for the ills of the world instead of those responsible. Take your blinders off and look at the true world.

    Regardless of whether or not America took out Sadam and his evil murderous reign, Islam intended before and still intends to rule the world by conquering it.

    Even before Iraq fell, Iran intended to develop nuclear weapons and use them on Israel, America and Europe to bring about the final jihad so Islam can rule the world.

    If Islam is successful in taking over the world, Islam will give you three choices:
    1. Become a Muslim
    2. Be a slave.
    3. Be executed.

    Wake up and realize that it was America’s strength in it’s citizens, it’s military and weapon making power and the spending of 100’s of billions of dollars that allowed America to defeat communism and it will be these same strengths that will defeat Islam’s war for world domination.

    Instead of demeaning us, join us to defeat Islam and retain your right to not agree with us.

    The Texican.
    It is better to fight and die free than to ever live in oppression.

  46. says

    Texican: “You have put way to much credibility in the misrepresentations by the MSM and the elitist’s propaganda that you have become so brainwashed that you can not see the truth.”

    My sources are CIA files released under the Freedom of Information Act and the actual people that were responsible for the activities and policies in the first place.

    You should remove your blinkers and see for yourself, if you have the courage. You will be in for a shock.

    The USA is not the blundering benevolent giant you imagine, your history is replete with crimes against humanity, including within your own borders. Your treatment of the indigenous races of your country was appalling – systematic genocide.

    The fact that you and most of your countryman refuse to acknowledge your mistakes makes it easy to repeat them.

    This applies to your democrats as much as the republicans – nobody is without blame.

    Finally, I have not said and do not imply that the USA is responsible for all the ills in the world. But through acts of ommission and acts both covert and overt, the USA has dirty hands in much of recent history.

    The USA is an agressor nation with bloody hands and you don’t even have a clue!

    CD ‘Bar’ Baric

  47. says

    bizarre-jet wrote:
    “People such as kimtim think this is totally acceptable because he is a fascist and he hates communists with a passion.”
    ___

    Heeheeheehee………!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Yep, yep, the old USA is teeming with FASHISTICO-GRINGOLEROS!!! wE’RE GONNA CREAtE a cHRistIAN- FASHISTICO nWE wuRLd ODOUR!!!!!!

    wHITHer U LICK iT ure NoT!!!! cuminist-Scum Vil Rue DA dai DEy ever WUS BORN. sLObbER-SLobber, chomp-cHOmp,,, OUCH!! dAMN KANUCLES DRAGGING on dee dirt hURTzzz!!

    Me go BacK IN CAVE now, pLAn big StRAttegy, big-PiVCTURE me have, GONNa GET iT done SOON!!! mE TRICKY AND wiiise. An MEAN TOO.

  48. says

    Some have carried on in regards to homosexuals on this bog, so I have to put my bit in on it…
    Sexual orientation is flexible, right?
    Marriage – I want to marry three men, six women, four children (ages ranging from seven to ten), two dogs and a mule. And I want insurance and benefits for all of them. You do not like it, hate crime!!! Go to jail, get fined.
    Hey everyone, this is my coming out notice. I have decided to CHANGE MY GENDER! (We all know from the many great organizations out there that our gender is not fixed! It is FLUID like our constitution. NOW, HRC, ACLU, Planned Parenthood, National Gay and Lesbian Task Force and so many more…)

    Hoorah for me!

    I am no longer to be considered a monogamous heterosexual male. >From this point on, I am to be recognized as a Para-sexual. This is how I perceive my sexual orientation. You will love me and must accept me for whom I truly see myself to be.

    What, you never heard of a Para-sexual? No I am not homosexual. No, I am not BI-sexual. Quit trying to limit my freedoms!

    I want to have a loving, multidirectional, multifaceted marital relationship with the ones I choose to love.

    These are:

    Male: Steve, Jack and John
    Female: Judy, Jane, Elizabeth, Sally, Erica and Hillary
    Children: Peter (male age 7), Jonathon (male age 9), Samantha (female age 10) and Jill (female age 9)
    Canis familiaris: Spot (male age 3, Doberman) and Fife (female age 1 ½, french poodle)
    Mule: Pedro (age 7)
    We are planning a big happy wedding ceremony; all my best friends will be invited. Bill, Hillary, Ted, Barbara B. You know the crowd. (Great people. Oh that Ted is a kicker at parties when he starts getting juiced up!)

    We deserve to have a happy legal marriage and all the benefits that come with it, such as:
    We deserve full medical and dental insurance, as well as other normal benefits, from our employers for our entire family.
    Hospitals must allow me to make decisions and visitations for all my family.
    We must be allowed jointly to adopt new children, pets and livestock.
    We must be allowed public housing on universities.
    My entire family must be considered surviving partners if one of us doesn’t have a will and dies.
    We deserve Tax Benifits, Filing joint income tax returns with the IRS and state taxing authorities. The right to create a “family partnership” under federal tax laws, which allows you to divide business income among family members.
    We demand all school children be taught, from preschool through college graduation, that we are a normal loving family. They must be forcibly taught that anyone who disagrees with our family’s lifestyles are terrible, hurtful, hateful bigots who should be locked away from decent people. We deserve to be protected from bullying and name-calling.

    We demand that we have equal representation for the Para-sexual on all aspects television, radio, movie and print. This means at least five prime time sitcoms, three to five major motion pictures per season, and daily mention in the news media.

    If American Idol does not find one of our very talented Para-sexual’s to be THE American Idol, they must be thoroughly chastised in the press, and maybe sued by our great friends over at the ACLU.

    Para-sexualism must become a protected lifestyle, this is a civil rights issue. We must not be discriminated against in any way. Laws must be passed protecting us from anyone who disagrees with us. Our liberty is at stake!

    Our family unit is larger than most, so we will fall well below the government described poverty line. Due to this, we deserve (and demand) equal access to child care, Medicare, welfare, unemployment, food stamps and any other wonderful social program we find out there that will give us what we deserve: free money.

    Your churches must also accept us. We will not allow intolerance from the pulpit. Any church that does not immediately and wholeheartedly accept us into their congregation will have their leaders arrested for hate crimes against us. We do not care that God says what we are doing is SIN… we love one another. Is not God all about LOVE??? You best be LOVING us or we will get the government to make you, religious God fearing bigots!

    Your Church leaders better step up and get ready for some BIG weddings. When we come down the aisle, it is a true parade!

    So, now I am out of the closet.

    Are you loving me? Are you respecting me?
    No? [Screams: Hey ACLU, we got another one we can sue! Send in the litigators and make sure our bank account can handle another couple hundred grand from this bigoted reader!]

    ___

    Permission is granted to republish this article as long as you credit the source as Alain’s Newsletter AND provide a link to http://www.alainsnewsletter.com

  49. says

    Thanks Gyale……….

    Just didn’t understand all of the free government benefits and the vast amount of fun that one can have being a para-sexual

    Horrays and platitudes to anlainsnewsletter for stating it so well.

    The Texican.

  50. says

    Blazar-Jet — The USA is not the blundering benevolent giant you imagine, your history is replete with crimes against humanity, including within your own borders. Your treatment of the indigenous races of your country was appalling – systematic genocide.

    Canada fought the Indian wars also which is not an admirable time for either nation.

    America is not innocent, but does the best it can uder the circumstances to improve the world. America has made mistakes in the past and will make mistakes in the future.

    Blazar Jet the time is coming to expend your ire aganist the true enemy Islam or are do you love and follow Islam.

    Blazar Jet, be informed that there are tens upon tens of millions of Americans that will fight and die before we alow America to fall.

    The war for our fredom is coming and it is near.

    The Texican
    It is better to fight and die free than to ever live in oppression.

  51. says

    You know, Blazar Jet, when the military-industrial-complex wants to start a war, they just make something up, like the Gulf of Tonkin. I, on the other hand, watched the second plane crash into the WTC on live TV.

    These people are serious, and they believe in martyrdom. Ahmadinejad probably doesn’t care if his country gets nuked, so long as he lands a couple on Israel first.

    I’d say the problem with your theories is that you don’t account for the existence of evil in the world. While I’m sure the m-i-c is salivating over the prospect of huge government defense spending, that’s greed, not evil. Men like Saddam, Kim Jong Il, and the thug in Iran are evil and are happy to take the world stage now that the cold war is over.

    It is true that we created a lot of these situations but it was not to set the stage for future military spending when Russia was defeated, it was because we pursued a policy of stability over liberty during the cold war years. I understand this policy but it has come back to bite us in the butt and now we have to clean up that mess.

  52. says

    blazar-jet, here is the proof of weapons of mass distruction in Iraq… the trouble is that Mr Bush warned them for 18 months that he was coming, plenty of time to hide them..
    Here is just a tiny portion of what the UN gave Iraq in 1995..and I have posted this before.

    Handbook for Notification of Exports to Iraq,
    SC Resolution (1051),
    Annex C

    COMMODITY DESIGNATOR CODES AND THEIR ITEM DESCRIPTIONS

    Format of the Commodity Designator Code:

    Were:

    = Nuclear/Chemical/Biological/Missile Annex.
    – = Paragraph, reference to the item (or group of items).
    = Category, that item is included in.
    Nuclear (Annex 3 Items; S/1995/215)

    Cat

    01
    Description

    Nuclear materials.

    02
    Non-nuclear materials.

    03
    Plants and equipment used in uranium enrichment.

    04
    Analytical instruments and process control systems equipment used in uranium enrichment.

    05
    Other isotope (deuterium, tritium, lithium) separation plants.

    06
    Plants/equipment for the chemical conversion of uranium.

    07
    Nuclear reactors and equipment.

    08
    Nuclear fuel fabrication plants.

    09
    Reprocessing technology and equipment.

    10
    Industrial equipment and machine tools.

    11
    Implosion systems development equipment.

    12
    Other nuclear list related equipment.
    I have not included all the viruses that was sent to Iraq with this lot, which included ebolia virus…
    If I could post a picture fo the fighter planes that were uncovered in the sand hills, I would also put a photo of that in also, so if they can hidm many war planes in the sand then what else have the hidden, it is a vast country…