Tiny Minority of Extremists Update from USA Today, with thanks to GTG:
Islamic fundamentalists who oppose U.S. interests in the Middle East have benefited from the U.S. policy of promoting democracy, making significant gains in recent elections.Hamas is the latest to rise. Its likely strong showing in Palestinian parliamentary elections today poses a dilemma for the United States and Israel, which refuse to deal with a group responsible for numerous suicide bombings....
Kenneth Katzman, a Middle East expert at the non-partisan Congressional Research Service, says the United States has pressured Egypt, Iraq and the Palestinian territories to hold free elections.
"The pro-democracy effort has had the actual effect of strengthening fundamentalist movements," Katzman says....
Winds of freedom. Unquenchable desire for freedom all over the world in every human heart. Democracy is on the March. In Egypt. In Lebanon. In the "Palestinian" lands getting ready to be part of the solution, as one of the states, in that two-state solution. Building Iraq the Model. Building Iraq the Light Unto the Muslim Nations. Can't cut and run. Must finish the job. Must finish the mission. Can't leave until Victory. Not until Total Victory. And it is coming, that Total Victory. You can be sure of it. Can't leave until the "Iraqi" government tells us it's time to leave. Can't leave until the generals tell us the "Iraqi" people are ready to assume their duties, and Iraq the Model is up and running. Can't leave. Can't. Just can't.
Approximately two years into the outset of the GWOJ (Global War on Jihad) I noted there was a distinct possiblity (not probablity) Muslims would democratically elect Jihadists to lead them. This was a calculated risk worth taking. I beleived Pres. Bush would eventually learn (to his chagrin) that "democracie" sometimes do, in fact, wage war on other democracies. That Jihadists might win the early/initial elections and rule (thereby being strengthened) does not mean we (the USA) were wrong to try to bring freedom to the Middle East. The question becomes: can the Jihadists hold power through fair democratic elections? The answer to that question is unknown at this time. We've given the ME a chance to improve itself. If the chance given is used properly there may be peace. If the chance given is thrown away we (the USA) can return. The problem for the ME is this: next time we return we will not be so nice.
"State Department spokesman Sean McCormack declined to comment on the trend and said the administration would wait for Palestinian election results.
Promoting democracy should "obviously" be part of U.S. policy, says Richard Haass, a senior State Department official in President Bush's first term. But there's debate about whether it is outweighing other foreign policy goals, he says."
Never admit it Bush and Condi! Never. Your 'light unto the Mohamedans' is a big gigantic failure. But never admit it! Never.
OT, last night a very interesting documentary about the Munich terrorist attack was shown on BBC2 (Eliyahu, you might find it worthwhile - seems a very objective account, without any anti-Israeli bias ... for a change - a nice surprise from BBC!):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/this_world/4605414.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/this_world/4627388.stm
Eliyahu or someone else who knows - the guy in charge of the Polish eurojihad.com site has asked me how much land bought by Jews Israel had when it was proclaimed in 1947?
Can someone help please? He seems to remember that there was an article on this subject in the FrontPage Magazine...
Thank you!
Already, the Israeli leftists (which means all Israelis save a small minority of religious Zionists and secular nationalists) are preparing to deal with Hamas. The logic being promoted in Israel is: Well, we deal with Fatah, and they have an armed terror wing dedicated to destroying Israel, so how is Hamas any worse? Heaven forbid this logic should lead the war-weary Israelis to stop "negotiating" with Fatah, too!
Once Hamas joins the PNC, they will, like Hamas, separate their political and military wings, and become legitimate in the eyes of Israel. The Israeli recognition of Hamas as a "peace partner" will enable Rice and Bush to do the same. They will claim that Democracy promotes peace, and point to Hamas' "transformation" as proof. Meanwhile, Fatah and Hamas (et. al.) will continue to chip away at Israel's security and its people's will to defend themselves. This formula works well, as the last 40 years have demonstrated.
Allow me to toss in a contrarian perspective vis-a-vis Hamas' growthin the Palestinian electorate.
Much as I have said that surrendering Gaza to the PA was a military decision and a smart one -- it shortens lines, reducing the demands on Israeli security forces and moves people out of harm's way -- I suspect that Hamas' entry into politics will make them vulnerable -- far more vulnerable than if they remained simple terrorists / distributors of aid. Once they are in government, then they have to govern. Specifically, they will have to govern the chaotic horrorshow they have created. Additionally, once they are "the government," they must pass a new bar -- a higher one -- one where committing terrorist acts will undermine European enthusiasm for the Palestinian cause... even French hypocrisy has its limits.
This is good news, in a perverted sense. If Hamas comes to power in Ramallah, at least the illusion of the Palestinians being moderate will be shattered, and there may be less pressure on Israel to withdraw from more terretory. Another salutary effect would be the way it changes the dynamic in the Israeli elections in March - enhancing the prospects of Likud returning to power.
"Once they are in government, then they have to govern."
- balderdash.
"Once they are in government, then they have to govern."
No -- As Muslims, and as is traditional in all Muslim nations, this means that now they will be the ones to blame all of their shortcomings on Israel and America -- now they will be empowered to deflect attention and criticisms away from their florid incompetence and focus the fulminant hatred of their Muslim thralls on Israel and America --
"Govern"? In Muslim lands? Where? When? I don't see it... All I see there is abject hatred, incompetence, and more abject hatred...
Cthulhu: "Once they are in government, then they have to govern."
RebeccaJW: "balderdash"
Exactly.
Were I wholly honest, I should have said they will be *expected* to govern. As with Gaza, they will prove incapable of governing. Once Hamas and their fellow travellers are in government, then there will be no more excuses anyone can make for them.
If I must spell it out in short words, its a bit like Animal Farm. The truth will out, the mask will fall and they will be isolated. Israel, the US and the rest of the interested parties will not allow them to have it both ways. Either they will go wholly to terrorism, in which case they can be destroyed, or they will be co-opted and corrupted by Fatah. They will have no middle road.
If anything, I would be more worried about the Neville Chamberlin Left of Israel than I would be of Hamas in government. These nudniks want to give the Palestinians a state and still accept the terrorism.
jsla: "Govern"? In Muslim lands? Where? When? I don't see it... All I see there is abject hatred, incompetence, and more abject hatred... "
Once they are the government, they will find that they are no longer under the cover they once possessed. What they do, they do as the government, not as a "tiny extremist minority." Once in government, they can be broken.
Hanna will most likely govern alot better and most western country are right now. Every body in the west are so afaird of Islam and the people in the islamist world are very religious people in general and all the seclur parties we try to force on then willnot do well there. Even the PPP(Pakistian People Party) isnot seclar at all in the western sence at all it is than religious party at it roots. It is than Islamist Socalism Party. The Muslim brotherhood would have won more seat it the police didnot illegality beat up on people who would voted for them. The party in power isnot than moslim party but than seclar national party that does everything possible to destory islan inside of Egpty but fail badly at it.
Polish infideless - You may find this link helpfull
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_UN_Partition_Plan
Isslum, thank you! Very obliged.
"The pro-democracy effort has had the actual effect of strengthening fundamentalist movements"
That danger has always been there and I'm sure the president realizes this. But what are the other choices? Set up ruling families as the British did in Saudi and Jordon? Make each nation a protectorate and select a governor to rule each nation? Any others? A freely elected democracy still seems the best of the lot. However, unless the Moslems uniformily decide to live peaceably with their Moslem and non-Moslem neighbors there will be no end to the conflicts regardless of the government form.
"The pro-democracy effort has had the actual effect of strengthening fundamentalist movements."
This is why I keep saying that spreading democracy by itself won't work. Islam is the problem, not the style of government.
Hugh..was that your Dustin Hoffman "Rain Man" impression, or was I just reading it that way?
Get this now sadamm and his laywers
Are SUING president bush and tony blair
wwww.jimgoism.blogspot.com
Also link is at
http://washingtontimes.com/upi/20060125-111155-3468r.htm
From this story..
Defence lawyers for Saddam Hussein Wednesday distributed copies of a lawsuit against President Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair for destroying Iraq.
The suit accuses Bush and Blair of committing war crimes by using weapons of mass destruction and internationally-banned weapons including enriched uranium and phosphoric and cluster bombs against unarmed Iraqi civilians, notably in Baghdad, Fallujah, Ramadi, al-Kaem and Anbar.
The Amman-based legal team had said Sunday that the ousted president intended to start legal action against the two leaders of the Iraq war in the International Criminal Court in the Hague, but the text of the suit was made available Wednesday.
The suit also accuses the U.S. president and British prime minister of torturing Iraqi prisoners, destroying Iraq's cultural heritage with the aim of eliminating an ancient civilization, and inciting internal strife.
Bush and Blair were also accused of polluting Iraq's air, waters and environment.
The lawsuit demanded that Bush and Blair appear before court to answer the charges filed against them and requested the harshest punishment in line with Dutch legislation and the rules of international and humanitarian laws.
It also requested compensation for all material and moral damage inflicted on the Iraqi people.
i don't believe we can export democracy to nations that do not have the judeo/christian-anglo/saxon ideas of personal freedoms and limited government. (not that you see much of either anymore). i think we would help these people more with efforts guided toward building respect for the rule of law, strengthening the court systems, and building a professional police force. Don't you think the citizens would be happier in a country where, for the first time in their lives, they are treated with respect by a professional cop, not asked for bribes, not tortured in jail, and in court, could have a reasonable expectation that things are fair?
IMHO, GW is re-fighting the Vietnam war in Iraq - the way it should have been fought. A proclivity of GW's: setting right what was made wrong.
Hugh, channelling GW now an ability or curse?
Curse? Isn't this how Rich Little got his start?
The image of a reckless, rebellious, selfish teen who suddenly becomes a parent himself comes to mind....
Once they are the government, they will find that they are no longer under the cover they once possessed. What they do, they do as the government, not as a "tiny extremist minority." Once in government, they can be broken.
Posted by: Cthulhu above..
Amen, someones sees what is going on, and what is wanted. If attacks come from them, then actions taken can be [ fill in the blank here].
Frankly, Hugh, I have much greater hopes for the Iraqi people than I do for the long-term fate of Israel.
Most of the Iraqis know who their oppressors really were and that what they were being fed in their schools was Baathist propaganda for the singular purpose of keeping power in the hands of the annointed few. The Palestinians, however, have had an "external boogieman" to blame, and a steady trickle of alms to nourish their hatred. So far as I know, there is no Iraqi parallel to "Umm Nidal" breeder of 3 terror bombers and 7 more potential terror bombers who may very well number among the successful Hamas candidates. I mean the woman has to be looking to the next elections and wondering where she'll find campaign expense monies won't she?