Here we go again. Yet another story that shows that Islamic jihad terrorists do not consider Israelis (and, in many cases, Americans, Britons, and other Westerners) to be innocent civilians, and thereby demonstrating the vacuity of condemnations of attacks on innocent people. Note also Umm Nidal's emphasis on the sacrednes of the duty of jihad killing. She even quotes a Qur'anic verse and says: "I am happy to implement this Koranic verse myself, and to be a terrorist for the sake of Allah" -- which sets up the familiar old round:
Umm Nidal: "We rely on Islamic religious law when we say there is no prohibition on killing these people."
Spencer: "Umm Nidal says that Islamic religious law does not prohibit killing those considered kafir harbi -- infidels at war with Islam. This is indeed in accord with traditional Islamic religious law (cf. Al-Mawardi, etc.). Any sincere Muslim reformer will have to face that fact honestly."
CAIR et al: "Spencer is a wicked Islamophobe who says that Islamic religious law places no prohibition on killing people. In fact Islam teaches peace."
But CAIR et al never seem to address the question of where Umm Nidal picked up her ideas, and what they propose to do about it. All their energy is focused on shooting the messenger -- me. And meanwhile the Umm Nidals of the world spread their poison more or less unhindered.
"Palestinian Legislative Council Candidate and Mother of Three Hamas Terrorists Umm Nidal Farhat: Israelis are Not Civilians and There are No Prohibitions on Killing Them; I Am Willing to Sacrifice My Ten Sons," from MEMRITV:
The following are excerpts from an interview with Umm Nidal [1], Palestinian Legislative Council Candidate and the mother of three Hamas terrorists who were killed while taking part in "martyrdom" operations. Dream2 TV aired this interview on December 21, 2005.TO VIEW THIS CLIP, VISIT: http://www.memritv.org/search.asp?ACT=S9&P1=980 .
Interviewer: "Umm Nidal is a woman who voluntarily sacrificed her sons for the sake of resisting the occupiers. This woman always declared loud and clear: 'My sons did not commit suicide. My sons went and fought. None of them intended - even accidentally - to kill civilians, children or the elderly. They all resisted and confronted the enemy. They had achievements and they were martyred.'
"Umm Nidal is with us today, because she is presenting herself to the world in a new capacity, as a candidate for the Palestinian Legislative Council."
[…]
Umm Nidal: "I protect my sons from defying Allah, or from choosing a path that would not please Allah. This is what I fear, when it comes to my sons. But as for sacrifice, Jihad for the sake of Allah, or performing the duty they were charged with - this makes me happy."
Interviewer: "What duty is this?"
Umm Nidal: "The sacred duty, Jihad for the sake of Allah. It is a sacred duty - one of the duties of Islam, which cannot be abandoned. We would be sinners if we did."
[...]
"I prepared all my sons for Jihad for the sake of Allah, whether by carrying out an attack, or by any other form of Jihad. I prepared myself for this. He who chooses a difficult road must be ready to bear the consequences."
[...]
"Some people may consider this a tragedy, but by Allah, it is a blessing.
[...]
"Allah be praised, there were many casualties. About ten soldiers [were killed], but Israeli radio always conceals the [true number of] casualties.
"The operation was very successful, Allah be praised. Ten soldiers were killed and 23 injured."
Interviewer: "The fatalities of the occupying enemy are more important to you than your own loss - and I don't mean this negatively. But you focus on the operation's outcome, not on your son's life."
Umm Nidal: "Of course. I was hoping he would be martyred. If he had come back... True, there was no coming back from this operation. Martyrdom was inevitable in this operation. He entered the settlement, and there was no way he could have come out. His martyrdom was inevitable....
"When I heard the outcome of the operation... True... True, I was sad about my son. This is something that cannot be ignored."
Umm Nidal: I Consider the Death of My Son a Blessing, Not a Tragedy
Interviewer: "Did you cry?"
Umm Nidal: "At first I did not cry. I said 'Allah Akbar' and bowed in gratitude. The truth is I was ashamed to say: 'Allah, help me in my tragedy,' because I consider this a blessing, not a tragedy. I prepared boxes of halva and chocolates, and handed them out to his friends."
Interviewer: "Excuse me, Umm Nidal, but in the West, this scene... it's not just that they do not understand this. They don't understand how a Palestinian mother can rejoice at her son's funeral, and can say 'Allah Akbar' when she hears that he was martyred. Not only do they consider this peculiar, but they also criticize it. They say these Palestinian women obviously have no human feelings. In other words, no mother in the world - no matter how noble the cause or how successful the outcome - would react in such a way. Much has been written about you and all the Palestinian mothers. They cannot understand such emotions."Umm Nidal: "They are completely detached from Islam and its concepts. But we, Allah be praised, are devout Muslims. In these matters, there is a big difference between us and them. They do not understand what Islam is..."
Interviewer: "But human beings are all the same. Our Lord created one kind of Man."
Umm Nidal: "Of course, and as a human being, I feel these emotions very deeply. Believe me, when it comes to my sons, I am one of the most compassionate mothers. But this is a sacred duty, which no emotion whatsoever can supersede."
Interviewer: "Is it true that during the withdrawal..."
Umm Nidal: "We cannot stop sacrificing just because we feel pain. What is the meaning of sacrifice? One sacrifices what is precious, not what is of little value. My children are the most precious thing in my life. That is why I sacrificed them for a greater cause - for Allah, who is more precious than them. My son is not more precious than his God, he is not more precious than the places holy to Islam, and he is not more precious than his homeland or his Islam. Not at all."
[...]
Interviewer: "Some people say: Why do you prepare your sons for death, when you could be preparing them for life? I don't mean life in the sense of pleasure, but perhaps they could do more in their lives than in their deaths. When these people see these young men, they say they might have been great military commanders or... they might have become great minds that could cause many more casualties than were caused by throwing their lives to perdition."
Umm Nidal: "But he is not throwing himself to death or to perdition. This is not death. This is not called death. It is called martyrdom."
[...]
Interviewer: "Recently, many operations have been carried out in restaurants and commercial centers. The world regards them very differently than operations against the military. When a bombing takes place in one of those places, the Palestinian cause is damaged worldwide.
"In Palestine itself - in Gaza and in the West Bank - people are divided over these operations."
Umm Nidal: "All the Palestinians share the same view. They are not divided. The only ones who disagree and think otherwise are, of course, the foreigners, who have no sympathy for us or for our cause, and who know nothing about us. They are the ones who think that this man has come to kill innocent people. This is what they think. But we, as Muslims, think differently. We are familiar with the Koranic verse: 'One who attacks you, attack him in like manner.'
"These are war necessities. How can we win otherwise? It's true we carry out operations against the military and its soldiers, but [killing civilians] is a war necessity. They are all occupiers to begin with. Whoever comes from abroad and lives on the land of Palestine is considered an occupier, even if they are women or old people. They are all occupiers. Besides, don't forget that they all serve in the army. They are all considered soldiers. They are all reserve soldiers.
"In addition, these people... You know this land belongs to someone else, so how can you come and live on it? Therefore, all Israelis are considered occupiers of our land. There is no difference between men and women..."
Interviewer: "But Umm Nidal, there are many..."
Umm Nidal: "They are all occupiers, and we must fight them by any legitimate means."
Interviewer: "'Legitimate' is the word I was looking for..."
Umm Nidal: "All means are legitimate as long as the occupation continues."
[...]
Interviewer: "Can't you distinguish between operations against civilians and against soldiers, even from a psychological point of view?"
Umm Nidal: "There is no difference. This is Islamic religious law. I don't invent anything. I follow Islamic religious law in this. A Muslim is very careful not to kill an innocent person, because he knows he would be destined to eternal Hell. So the issue is not at all simple. We rely on Islamic religious law when we say there is no prohibition on killing these people."
[...]
"Peace Means the Liberation of All of Palestine, From the [Jordan] to the [Mediterranean] Sea"Interviewer: "What does the word 'peace' mean to you?"
Umm Nidal: "The word 'peace' does not mean the kind of peace we are experiencing. This peace is, in fact, surrender and a shameful disgrace. Peace means the liberation of all of Palestine, from the [Jordan] to the [Mediterranean] Sea. When this is accomplished - if they want peace, we will be ready. They may live under the banner of the Islamic state. That is the future of Palestine that we are striving towards."
Interviewer: "Some say this kind of reasoning is the obstacle to peace, because the Israelis will never agree to be banished..."
Umm Nidal: "Let them refuse. We do not expect them to accept this. These people are occupiers, and we want to banish them from our land."
[...]
Interviewer: "Umm Nidal, who sits here in front of me, is classified as a terrorist throughout the world. Not just a terrorist, but also as a producer of terrorists..."
Umm Nidal: "They can classify as much as they like. I am proud and honored to be a terrorist for the sake of Allah. 'Prepare for them whatever force and steeds of war you can, in order to strike terror in the hearts of the enemy of Allah and of your own.' I am happy to implement this Koranic verse myself, and to be a terrorist for the sake of Allah."
"Palestine" is not a country and I hope it never becomes one.
That hollow sound is Condi and Karen repeating in unison, "all parents want the same things for their children..." echoing down the hall of mirrors.
It’s sad that there are individuals out there who are willing to commit monstrous acts upon other humans and the whole time to show such pride and expect with their narrow minds that they’re doing right in their God’s eyes.
I’ll bet each of her sons were pretty surprised as they plunged into the afterlife to find themselves in Hell.
“Hey, there’s my long-martyred brother Al-Akakkk getting his eye socket raped by Beelzebub’s thorned phallus! Wow! Mom never mentioned thi –EEEEEYYYAAAIIGH!!!!!”
The name of the Palestinian terrorist "Abu Nidal" meant "Father of the struggle." I'm going to assume that Umm Nidal means "Mother of the struggle" and is likewise an alias.
Such wonderful people (/sarcasm off)
Darius:
Yes. You're right.
Cordially
Robert Spencer
Read this book and it will explain the pathetic state that the Arabs are in.
The Closed Circle (ISBN: 0060981032)
Pryce-Jones, David
Borrowing a phrase from the book, I think we've got a case of the "shame-honor" complex. They are so ashamed of themselves because they can't produce an honorable face to other countries or peoples. So aggression is the product. It's their only option. A sad state when your only voice is unspeakable violence.
Jesus Christ on the subject of good parenting:-
"Is there a father among you who would offer his son a snake when he asks for fish, or a scorpion whe he asks for an egg? If you then, flawed as you are, know how to give your children what is good for them, how much more will the heavenly father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him"
Luke 11:11
From the Old Testament:-
Like a gold ring in a pig's snout is a beautiful woman without good sense.
Proverbs 11:22
Wisdom has built her house, she has hewn her seven pillars...
...The Lady Stupidity is a flighty creature; the simpleton, she cares for nothing.
Proverbs 9:1
The wisest women build up their homes;the foolish pull them down with their own hands. Proverbs 14:1
Who can find a capable wife?
her worth is far beyond coral (the earlier translations said rubies, which I prefer)
Her husband's whole trust is in her
and children are not lacking.
She repays him with good not evil all her life long.....
Her sons with one accord call her happy,
her husband too and he sings her praises.
Proverbs 31:10
I think I know who will be my role model.
You know it is simply impossible to reason with people who think like this. It is unfortunate that this represents the mentatilty of the people who control 90% of the worlds oil production,unfortunate because the USA runs on cheap oil, or at least, affordable oil, if we cannot reason with them, and they are taking our billions and billions and billions of dollars and the only thing they can produce is this hate filled ideology along with nuclear weapons and the means to deliver them, at some point and it may be soon they leave us no choice but to nuke a billion or so Muslims if they continue to threaten and attack us any way they can. If it boils down to them or us my vote is for a pre-emptive strike that will get their attention once and for all.
The da'wists must ignore the jihadists, that is why CAIR et al will ignore Umm Nidal and say that MEMRI misquoted her and took it out of context (then they will add that MEMRI should not be trusted because it has ties to Mossad and it's "right wing"). Obscure, obscure, obscure. They cannot discuss, and never will discuss, the contents of the QHS honestly, that would give away their gameplan and alarm the infidels and thereby hurt their da'wa efforts. If the subject is brought up by someone like Robert Spencer then they first resort to ad hominems in hopes that the mass media will ignore the critic's argument. However, that is not always effective if the jihadists quote the text themselves and if lots of infidels are listening, it also becomes difficult if a respected journalist asks them about the same troublesome passage. That is when taqiyya mode kicks in. First, it's a mistranslation and you must know classical Arabic in order to understand the "real meaning", then it's "out of context", and if that won't do, say that it is a minority view usually based on a weak hadith that has no resonance with mainstream/moderate/tolerant Islam. After they do that they talk about how oppressed Muslims are in their own countries and in the West, the "dirty looks" are just too much to bear it seems. And they are "sick and tired of this crap" because they plead that they love this country and that they would never do anything to harm it, "we are not all terrorists" etc. They look sad and comment how in the West it's starting to look like the 1930's again but with the Muslims as the victims instead of the you-know-who. Then it's over. The damage that has been done is usually forgotten after they hear the infidels' sigh of relief. They have to do the same song and dance everytime a jihadist's own words are used against them.
The da'wists like the jihadists and they support their objectives in Palestine, the Phillipines, Kosovo, Chechnya, and Kashmir, but how they wish they would only just shut up and stop ruining it for the rest of the ummah.
I think we can all agree that she is a mother.
Just beyond comprehension. To borrow from Bill O'Reilly, do not accept Kool-Aid from Umm Nidal.
Western apologists for the cause of "Palestine" say its "hopelessness" that drives suicide attacks. Here's another thought: It's an easy way out, especially if one believes the bit about the 72 virgins and such: Why stick around and try to improve the lot of your fellow man, when you can bypass all that hard work, strap on some explosives, and get giggidy-giggidy with the houri? Especially when they can't even look a woman in the eye in this life.
Another thought-- even with Saddam no longer paying the families of suicide bombers, surely this Umm Nidal lady is raking in a few bucks everytime she "sacrifices" one of her sons. I doubt the "charity" telethons across the Mid-East have gone away, even among our "allies" like Saudi Arabia, Egypt, and Pakistan (the latter so deftly roasted by Hugh today).
Logically, the same also applies in reverse.
That makes all Palestinian "civilians" targets.
Are they ready to live with that?
i think this shall be my new muslim name
I think there's a significant fraction of muslims
that consider only muslims to be "innocent
civilians". To which I say, fine, I reciprocate.
Only nonmuslims can be civilians, every muslim is
a target.
I hope Israel has neutron bombs.
Once again the source of this item is interesting.
it seems only Memri ever carries such news stories because they are extremely detrimental to the "palestinian cause".
The western news agencies refuse through their biased partisanhip and threats of attacks by PAl thugs to report anything not beneficial to the Pals.
the result is that all the real news of the murder and mayhem is censored and only the rosy picture of Palestians striving for democracy is braodcast.
It is of course exactly the opposite situation of iraq, where all "good news" is subjuduce.
What really makes the west different from the Middle east....
Is it technology....
Is it wealth...
Is it beauty ...
No no ...
The real difference is
In the west (Based upon our) Judeo / Christian Beliefs...
We celebrate Life..
We work to Save Life...
We work to better our childrens future...
In Islam and the whole middle east (except for Israel)... it is the opposite...
It is a broad brush i realize that but LOOK at the facts....
In the middle east Due to Islam DEATH is worshipped...
Death is Glorified...
Death of Others is not only desired but is your ticket into the Great Sex orgy in the sky...
Facts i saw or read on frontpage mag about accomplishments...
1. In the Last 1500 years can anyone even think of something (New) other than Islam that the Middle east has ever produced...
2. Name one Cure Other than camel urine that has come out of the middle east...
Now compare just these two items to the Wests achivments..
1. Almost Everything that the middle east uses except for the koran was invented in the west ...
Even the Printing press which the Koran is printed on....
2. Almost all modern medicines came from the west... and some from asia which we are still discovering...
3. The only nobel peace prize winners was the Islamic terrorist Arafish... and i think thats it.. its all i can remember.... of anyone in the middle east doing anything to benifit mankind...
Long after we are gone the muslims will still have to deal with one FACT...
Islam is a DEATH Cult nothing More...
Islam is not worth to investigate or scrutinize as it is incapable of standing up to any scrutiny..
but this old HAG... has proven once again that
Islam is from the Pitts of Hell spawned from Satan himself....
Only Satan could twist an entire regions minds so badly that they actually believe ...
That when they die killing the infidels. or teach their children to kill in gods name..
that act will gain them access to mohammeds whorehouse in the skies...
Killing your own children is not from god...
It is from the Devil whos name is allah...
This old Satan filled woman does not model any real mother.... but she does resemble one mom...
The CREATURE in ALIENS....
Clarify one point...
Arafish Pork be on his dead butt...
Was given the peace prize for supposedly facilitating the camp david peace accords..
and bringing hope to the poor misfitts the palestinians...
Im sorry but thats the BEST any Muslim is capable of....
I hope Israel has neutron bombs.
Neutron bombs are said to better preserve the buildings and infrastructure, if it came to that... said structures are all back in the Stone Age anyway, in spite of the billions in jizya aid.
And Umm Nidal's somewhere back before that. Honestly, she looks like a shaven King Abdullah in a hijab.
Islamic Women = Jihad Breeding Machines.
In Islam they are not seen as human, merly a resource to be exploited (hence the reason they are not allowed to enjoy sex = female "circumcision"). Only humans enjoy sex for the sake of sex. Animals only do it for reproduction. But in Islam women are nothing more than "animal incubating machines", gifted from Allah to the sick Islamic "men" of the world ("men" is in "" as any man who needs to lord it over a woman to feel that he has balls, really doesn't have any!).
Come to think of it, the same applies in Islamic Heaven!
How could a loving mother do this/want this for her own child??
Only the "Religion of Peace and Love" could make a mother this devoid of love for her own living child.
Islam is sick, and is lower than spent pigs piss on the ground.
jingoist:
A scientist from Pakistan named Abdus Salam was a co-winner of the Nobel Prize for Physics in the 1970s. I believe he is the only Muslim to win a Nobel Prize (excluding Arafat). I *think* he was at Cambridge or Oxford when he completed the work that led to the prize.
In a strange twist, his achievements weren't even recognized by the Pakistani government because he belonged to a "heretical" sect of Islam!
Wow... for some reason watching the video is far worse than reading the transcript. Maybe it's the sycophant reporter? Or Umm Nidal's steely resolve...
This is some scary stuff.
Send it to people you know, especially those who don't yet "get it."
Islamic Women = Jihad Breeding Machines.
3rdtimelucky-- It's always baffled me that jihad "martyrs" are promised a reward in Heaven that would constitute a sin under Islam on earth. And if the houris aren't human, it's a sort of metaphysical bestiality in addition to unchecked lust.
But have the clerics ever specified what awaits the female suicide bomber? What does does she supposedly get, a dinette set?
templar, US_infidel
Keep exposing the lies that "Palestine" and "Islamophobia" are. They've been repeated endlessly and they've become sacred truths. We are witnessing a distortion of truth by means of words on a huge scale. Count criticism of Islam as "racist" among those acts of cognitive perversion of objective reality, as well as the inversion of the notion of "religion of peace," foolishly perpetuated by Bush
The objective of all this is the abandonment of independent thinking and, more importantly, of responsibility towards truth and those who depend on it. It's at least a "taming" of reason and cognitive faculties, if not a complete brainwashing.
It's also a time-tried technique that made for great comedy in Shakespeare's time but it seems to be a tragedy nowadays when someone denies your reality consistently and mercilessly:
Kate, famished and beatten down (paraphrasing): The sun is up, my lord. Petruchio: No, it's the moon. Kate: I'm telling you. I see the sun, and I'll be damned if I say else. Petruchio: No, my love, it's the moon, or else we go back to your dad's house; Kate: It's the moon. Petruchio: It's the sun. Kate: It's whatever you wish, the moon, the sun, or a candle. I just want to get on with it/our journey and have something to eat (the girl had been starved for a couple of days) and a little sleep (she'd been sleep-deprived for as many days). (To herself: Just do what he says, or it will be the end of you).
You know the ending: tamed, obedient Kate spouting slogans about duties of obeyance to God, king, husband, sovereign, in the name of being "secure and safe" at home.
It's unbearably intriguing how language has evolved from Shakespeare's "secure" to our political "security."
I can't wait to find out.
Waiting for suggestions.
Check it out.
"Israelis are Not Civilians and There are No Prohibitions on Killing Them; I Am Willing to Sacrifice My Ten Sons,"
Translation: "I'm willing to fuck and produce suicide bombers and get Hamas money to make me rich" - a Pali money scam!
"I believe he is the only Muslim to win a Nobel Prize (excluding Arafat).."
-- from a posting above
No. In the categories that no longer count, having more to do with political tendentiousness and affirmative action (Nobel Level), such as "Peace" (but there is no peace), a few others -- Shirin Ebadi (with her atrocious acceptance speech) and Mohammaed El Baradei (with his languorous treatment in Iran of what just can't wait)-- come to mind. There is one chemist with a Muslim-sounding name who may or may not be a Believer. There are a few Maronite names that might be incorrectly thought to belong to Muslims. There is the Affirmative-Action roman fleuvist (the Nile being the fleuve in question), limning Cairene life in cafes where hours pass in hubble-bubble placidity, and time stands still, or on the streets and in the souks of Grand Cairo, or limited to Old Fustat, call it what you will. Possibly the previous literature Nobel to I. B. Singer, author of, inter alia, "Shosha," caused a Swedish judge or two to think of the "shisha" (that hubble-bubble pipe) that plays such a role in the works of Naguib Mahfouz, and in Stockholm he was in like Flynn. This did not prevent him, however, from being stabbed on the streets of Cairo for the offense of having, 30 years before, written something that Defenders of the Faith, in their violent moods, do not like.
Nobel Prizes are given far too much attention, but the nationalities in the sciences, even if the right person does not always get the award, do mean something.
One hopes, one dreams, that Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Ibn Warraq, and Ali Sina will be given the award -- the Nobel Prize for Peace. For they are working toward peace, by dissecting for the unwary Infidel public the greatest source of violence in the world today.
But it won't happen. And no foundation that purports to stand for peace and understanding and stuff like that would touch any of them with a ten-foot pole, even while wearing seven-league boots.
"But have the clerics ever specified what awaits the female suicide bomber? What does does she supposedly get, a dinette set?
Posted by: Shinoliite "
Maybe they become men so that they are at last "equal"??? But that is rather naive of me, I mean, as all Jews, Christians, and other infidels are in "hell fire" who is going to do the bidding of these Muslim males???? Nope I think that they stay as women, second class citizens of heaven!
I mean as a women in Islam, your word is only as good as that of half a mans, so when all your good deeds are measured up in order to by your way into Allah's Brothel in the Sky, as a woman you are going to need a LOT of witnesses to get in arn't you??
But I like your point - that Allah permits in heaven something he prohibits on earth! Just one of the MANY Allah Back Flip Specials we find in the Koran. How can you believe the word of a god that changes all the time? You cannot trust a 'man's'/god's' word if it changes!!
This woman gives a whole new meaning to the term "breeder reactor". I would really like to find out if allah really does protect mecca as the muslims think he does.
Hugh, thank you for pointing out those other winners. I tend to ignore the "Peace" and "Literature" prizes as a result of getting lectured on Rigoberta Menchu.
I still find it very telling that not many hard science, medicine or economics prizes find their way to non-Western(ized) nations.
l think she is now a legimate. she now is a Hammas leader, and due for termination along with the rest of her sons. hope the Israelie military puts a bulls eye on her real soon! she can join her allah in hell!
Er...Um
Am glad Umm Nidal
Ain't my mum.
One wonders if this woman has been so brutalized that she secretly hates & applauds the killing of her own sons? After years of being treated worse than a cow or she goat, of violence and abuse she is happy to see them despatched to Allah...Remember this dame doesn't shed a tear instead SHE GAINS A PENSION FOR LIFE [GRIM HUMOUR THERE]RESPECT OF MUSLIM MEN FOR THE FIRST TIME AND POWER. No wonder many Muslim wives are eager to send their violent,wife battering spouses away on Jihad. They get a rest from child
bearing and the constant aggression of Mo clones.
This is no comfort to Infidels especially Jewish ones of course.
After their deaths, female suicide bombers become one of the 72 virgins for the men, as they get into heaven Allah has them stripped naked and puts some see through silk on them in places to make them seem sexier.
Here is another question though.
What happens one of the 72 virgins after the Islamic "Martyr" fucks them?
I mean they are no longer virgins, so what happens? Allah puts them in a used goods cage for anyone to use whenever they want, does he banish them from the orgy and send them to hell?
What much of the rest of the world refuses to believe is that when Islam finishes with Israel it will move on to other parts of the globe. Western Europe, America, Canada, Mexico, Sudan, sub-Saharan Africa, Brazil, Myanmar, Australia, India, etc. are all sitting ducks for the continuing Islamic invasion...
The other thing that the rest of the world cannot bring itself to believe (or else is in denial about) is that there are people out there who believe that wholesale killing of an undesired ethnicity cannot and does not consititute a holocaust since the individual killings of members of that ethnicity was not wrong in the first place. So to many Muslims like the Palestinians the Holocaust was a non-event, even if large numbers of Jews were massacred during World War II.
I've always wondered the same, Druze, unless they also have magical regenerating powers.
Otherwise, maybe the last of the 72 virgins has "Time To Re-Order" tattooed on her stomach.
Shinolite writes:
"Neutron bombs are said to better preserve the buildings and infrastructure, if it came to that... said structures are all back in the Stone Age anyway, in spite of the billions in jizya aid.
"
The main advantage of a neutron bomb is the
reduced residual (fallout) radiation, not so
much the preservation of buildings, which is not
that likely, or, as you point out, even
important. If neutron bombs work as advertised,
Israel could use them in Gaza without irradiating
her own population.
I have many liberal "friends"...actually, we aren't really friends, because I think they are traitors and don't trust them for a second... anyway afew years ago, these libbies sported "Free Palestine" pins, and I developed a counter saying
"Free Palestine.... FROM ISLAM!!!"
Never turned it into a pin, though.
American
Israel does have neutron bombs.
I think Morgane hit it exactly on the Freudian head:
this the only revenge Muslim women can (subconsciously) exact upon the condescending, brutalizing, patriachally-poisoned men in their lives (and faith) who treat their females like second-rate crap. Sending their sons to their doom -as "martyrs" -finally ends their domination of the ladies. And gives the gals an identity, at last, as something other than an anonymous lickspittle servant of the self-glorifying guys.
Sick, shameful, psychotic, and perfectly understandable, given the circumstances. The women are too cowardly and brainwashed to strike back honestly and directly (ala Loreena Bobbit), so they use this slimy, but sublimely sanctimonious subterfuge for disposing of their (secretly) despised male dominators.
Islamic men must feel somewhat squeamish (at least unconsciously) in the company of such morbid Muslim maenads.
The main advantage of a neutron bomb...
Thanks for the info-- my bad. All these years I've wanted my own neutron bomb for the wrong reasons. ;)
(Note to NSA: Just kidding.)
Nidal Farhat: Israelis are Not Civilians and There are No Prohibitions on Killing Them; I Am Willing to Sacrifice My Ten Sons,"
"My sons", a statement of ownership. She considers her ten sons 'her' property. She is a very sick woman but typical. Love of her children is lost or perverted...Islamo-perverto. A serious muslim malady. People who have it shout Allahu Akbar while murdering their real or imaginary enemies. They love slavery and goats. A strange combination. They also love death, especially for someone else. They really love the death of Israeli's. These Islamo-perverto's wont stop untill all Israeli's are dead or pushed into the sea or both. Why give any of them one ounce of credibility? This woman needs a shrink, not job in gov or a TV interview...
Very true: Other than being a certifiable nutjob, what qualifications does this woman have to hold a government post?
Candidates like this might help to explain the sorry state in which the day-to-day workings of the Palestinian "government" are found.
Actually, the way the neutron bomb would work is the extreme high temperatures, and that is what would ensure the obliteration of all life in the vicinity. Given that, I don't see how buildings would stay intact.
I'd target differently. Instead of hitting at Gaza, I'd go after Damascus. There is a lot less global sympathy for the Syrians than the Palestinians, and that way, Israel also gets to destroy a major supporter of terror, since Damascus hosts Islamic Jihad, PFLP, and even Hamas Khaled Mashal.
Incidentally, one of Charles Krauthammer's predictions for this year - the fall of the Assad regime in Syria. If Syria and Iraq both disintegrate after the withdrawal of troops, it would be great watching a civil war unfold.
I like the way they cite the Quran as their authority, except when what the Quran says does not fit their current policy. For instance, the Quran says that Allah assigned the Holy Land to the Jews, but Umm Nidal calls the Jews aliens to the land [eventhough Jews have always been Jews living there for more than 3,000 years] despite what the Quran says. See quotes at link below:
http://ziontruth.blogspot.com/2005/05/quran-agrees-with-zionism.html
I also like how they have taken that heroic World War 2 terminology and adapted it for jihad. Hence, the Israelis are "occupiers" [like Nazi Germany in France, Poland, etc.] and the jihad-driven Hamas is called an "Islamic resistance" movement. In fact, the term "Islamic resistance" is nearly an oxymoron, since in Islamic terms, Islam must expand by aggressive war [=jihad]. This semantic subversion on behalf of jihad is also supported by the so-called "left" and by the "human rights" and "peace" and "humanitarian" NGOs operating out of Western countries. The sum of their efforts has been to destroy the notion of "innocent civilians" altogether, although they still use the notion to beat Israel with. The same contempt for the innocent civilian is demonstrated in attacks worldwide, whether the Philippines, Madrid, Delhi, London, New York, even Istanbul and Amman [the Biblical Rabbath-Ammon, by the way].
A bit off topic, but all nuclear weapons release
intense amounts of heat. The idea of the neutron
bomb was to kill mainly by the high neutron
emission during the blast (enough radiation to
immediately incapacitate at fairly close range)
but not to leave residual radiation. The
anticipated use was to blunt a Soviet armored
assault in Europe without leaving Europe like
Chernobyl.
My point was that such weapons could clean Gaza without leaving long term radioactive debris.
Also, the fact tha Gaza is desert like has advantages, as neutron range would be reduced by high humidity.
After their deaths, female suicide bombers become one of the 72 virgins for the men, as they get into heaven Allah has them stripped naked and puts some see through silk on them in places to make them seem sexier.
No, this isn't so. Allah's hellfire is also in Allah's heaven. That's where most women go.
Bukhari:V1B22N28 “The Prophet said: ‘I was shown the Hell Fire and the majority of its dwellers were women who are disbelievers or ungrateful.’ When asked what they were ungrateful for, the Prophet answered, ‘All the favors done for them by their husbands.’”
Qur’an 7:41 “They shall have a bed on the floor of Hell and coverings of fire; this is how We reward them.”
"Ishaq:185 [Muhammad said] “In hell I saw women hanging by their breasts. They had fathered bastards.”
I would consider this woman's murdering sons "bastards". I don't know how she "fathered" them, but this says she will be going to hell for doing it.
Those who might make it to Satan's brothel, will watch their husbands screw vigins I guess.
Bukhari:V4B54N476-544 “The Prophet said, ‘In Paradise they will not urinate, relieve nature, spit, or have any nasal secretions. Everyone will have two virgins who will be so beautiful and transparent the bones of their legs will be seen through their flesh.’”
How atractive.
Bukhari:V4B55N544 " Their companions will be houris [virgins]. All of them will look alike and will be sixty cubits (180 feet) tall.’”
180 feet tall! I'd like to see Ackmed hump that!
Qur’an 52:21 “Those who believe and whose families follow them in Faith, to them shall We join their offspring: Nor shall We deprive them of their works: (Yet) each individual is in pledge for his deeds.
What happens one of the 72 virgins after the Islamic "Martyr" fooks them?
They become re-virginized.
Qur’an 56:33... “Verily, We have created them (maidens) incomparable: We have formed their maidens as a special creation, and made them to grow a new growth.
And get this:
Qur’an 56:8 “...Round about them will (serve) boys of perpetual (freshness), of never ending bloom...
For those adicted to the anus I suppose...
Allah's heaven is full however:
Bukhari:V8B76N550 “I heard Allah’s Apostle saying, ‘From my followers there will be a crowd of 70,000 in number who will enter Paradise whose faces will glitter as the moon.’”
I mean they are no longer virgins, so what happens? Allah puts them in a used goods cage for anyone to use whenever they want, does he banish them from the orgy and send them to hell?
Posted by: Druze
As explained the "hell fire" torture room is also in Allah's heaven, these fires kindled by Allah himself. 999 of every 1000 muslims end up in hell anyways.
Bukhari:V8B76N537 “The Prophet said, ‘Allah will say, “Adam!” “I am obedient to Your orders.” Allah will say, “Bring out the people of the Fire.” “How many are the people of the Fire?” Allah will say, “Out of every thousand take out nine-hundred and ninety-nine persons.” At that time children will become hoary-headed and every pregnant female will drop her load. You will see the people as if they were drunk. Allah’s punishment will be very severe.’”
Qur’an 104:4 “He will be sure to be thrown into that which breaks him into pieces, flung to the Consuming One. And what will explain to you that which Breaks him into Pieces, Consuming and Crushing? It is the fire kindled by Allah which leaps up over them penetrating the hearts of men.”
Qur’an 68:44 “Then leave Me alone with such as reject this Message and call Our pronouncements a lie. Systematically by degrees, step by step, We shall punish them in ways they can not even imagine.
Allah's hell is down the lane, next to his garden, which is next to his whore house.
Qur’an 74:31 “We have appointed nineteen angels to be the wardens of the Hell Fire.
More proof Allah's hell is in Allahs heaven.
Qur’an 67:7 “We [Allah and his fun loving angels] have prepared the doom of Hell and the penalty of torment in the most intense Blazing Fire. For those who reject their Lord is the punishment of Hell: Evil, it is such a wretched destination. When they are flung therein, they will hear the terrible drawing in of their breath and loud moaning even as the flame blazes forth, roaring with rage as it boils up, bursting with fury. Every time a fresh crowd is cast in, Hell’s wardens will ask, ‘Did no Warner come to you?’”
A "fresh" crowd? LMAO!
Qur’an 66:6 “Believers! Save yourselves and your families from a Fire whose fuel is Men and Stones, over which are angels stern (and) severe as wardens, who flinch not (from executing) the commands they receive from Allah, but do (precisely) what they are commanded.”
Again, it's clear Allah is the top warden. Hell is in Allah's heaven, and this is what Allah enjoys most. Allah never visits the whore house.
Too busy torturing.
Qur’an 47:15 “Those who shall dwell forever in the Fire are given to drink boiling water that tears their bowels to pieces, and cutting their intestines to shreds.”
Bukhari:V8B76N548 “The Prophet said, ‘Protect yourself from the Fire.’ He turned his face aside as if he were looking at it and said, ‘Protect yourself from the Fire,’ and turned his face aside as if he were looking at it, and he said for the third time till we thought he was actually looking at it: ‘Protect yourselves from the Fire.’”
Allah took Muhammad on a tour.
Qur’an 85:1 “I swear by the Zodiacal Signs, woe to the makers of the pit of fire. Cursed were the people.”
Allah is an idolator.
Qur’an 13:5 “Those who deny will wear collars and chains, yokes (of servitude) tying their hands to their necks; they will be the inmates of Hell.… They will witness Our (many) exemplary punishments! Verily, your Lord is severe in retribution.”
Allah is a world class torturer, specializing in
unique methods. He really really likes this job.
This is so much more, funny stuff. If muslims are that stupid to believe this is from the real God... Satan deserves their company.
Eliyahu,
Thanks for this.
One question, though, is in the back of my mind whenever I see quotes from the Koran that look tolerant of non-Muslims: Have these verses been abrogated?
For example, some scholars think that verse 9:5 abrogates over 100 different earlier-revealed verses (many of them ostensibly tolerant), and verse 9:29 specifically refers to the jihad against and/or subjugation of Jews and Christians. On the other hand, some of the verses you've cited from Sura 5 may be regarded as having been revealed quite late, and may not be abrogated. (I'm not sure exactly how late, and Muslim scholars themselves do not even seem to agree on such issues. Sura 9 or parts of Sura 5 are often regarded as last revealed). Some (a minority) of Muslim scholars, of course, reject the principle of abrogation altogether.
In any case, I still think you present a useful angle, whether or not the verses in question are abrogated according to mainstream Islam.
"will be sixty cubits (180 feet) tall"
That was a film, "The Attack of the Fifty Foot Woman" The sort of thing I used to watch after the pubs shut.
Well, I had some free time and decided I would take a look at JW a moment, and I saw this thread. Sadly I have not the time to answer all of your points adequately, so I just thought I would adress these statements, and be gone again, as university does not let me quite a lot of free time...
“In the west (Based upon our) Judeo / Christian Beliefs...
We celebrate Life..
We work to Save Life...
We work to better our childrens future...
In the middle east Due to Islam DEATH is worshipped...
Death is Glorified...
Death of Others is not only desired but is your ticket into the Great Sex orgy in the sky”
Ha Ha, a death cult who is followed by 1.3 billion people and is the fastest growing religion in Occident with thens of thousands of new converts every year, many if not most of them women, like this Scottish Muslim who, after embracing Islam, has converted her husband, her family, and 30 of her neighbors as well... you are going to have a hard time educating the western world guys... LOL
And now about the thread, I will have to post this, again:
Some kinds of situations can make the worst arise from some human beings... whatever their religion are.
in the Spanish war of independance, a woman mother of 3 children invited two French soldiers to have dinner in her home. She put poison in the food, of course without telling anything to her children. All six died. The mother was prized and called a "national hero" by the Church for having sacrificed her 3 children and herself to kill two "French ateists".
Yes, yes, Christians who act like this are misguided while Muslims who act like this are only following their religion, blah... blah... And this is where the other statement gets in:
“Why? Nowhere in the Bible does it say to Christians to oppress, kill, and enslave "infidels"”
And he is serious. Now let’s take a look at the life-celebrating Judeo-Christian tradition. See what justified the crimes of the Christians like the Crusades or the Inquisition, and what presumably justifies the crimes of the terrorist group Lord Resistance Army:
EVIL, GENOCIDE AND WARS
SPREAD BY JUDAISM AND CHRISTIANITY
Numbers 25:4 And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the HEADS of the people, and HANG them up before the LORD AGAINST THE SUN, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.
Deuteronomy 20:16 But of the cities of these people, which the LORD thy God doth give thee [for] an inheritance, THOU SHALT SAVE ALIVE NOTHING THAT BREATHETH:
Deuteronomy 20:17 But thou shalt UTTERLY DESTROY them; [namely], the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath COMMANDED THEE:
Judges 1:4 And Judah went up; and the LORD delivered the Canaanites and the Perizzites into their hand: and they SLEW of them in Bezek TEN THOUSAND MEN.
Judges 1:5 And they found Adonibezek in Bezek: and they fought against him, and they SLEW the Canaanites and the Perizzites.
Judges 1:6 But Adonibezek fled; and they pursued after him, and caught him, and CUT OFF HIS THUMBS AND HIS GREAT TOES.
Ezek. 9:5 And the Lord said, "Go through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have you pity. SLAY UTTERLY OLD AND YOUNG, BOTH MAIDS AND LITTLE CHILDREN, AND WOMEN.
[Num. 31:1] And the Lord said unto Moses, "Avenge the children of the Mid'-an'ites.. They warred against the Mid'-i-an'ites, as the Lord commanded Moses, and they slay all the males. And they took all women as captives, and their little ones, and took the spoil of all their cattle, and all their flocks, and all their goods. And they burnt all their cities wherein they dwelt, and all their goodly castles, with fire. Moses said, "HAVE YOU SAVED ALL THE WOMEN ALIVE? NOW KILL EVERY MALE AMONG THE LITTLE ONES, AND KILL EVERY WOMAN that has known a man by lying with him, but all the young girls who have not known a man by lying with him keep alive for yourselves.
[Josh 6:16] Joshua said to the people of Israel, "The Lord has given you the city (of the Canaanites).. all silver, and gold, and vessels of brass and iron, are c consecrated unto the Lord: They shall come into the treasury of the Lord. The people utterly DESTROYED ALL THAT WAS IN THE CITY, BOTH MAN AND WOMAN, YOUNG AND OLD, AND OX AND SHEEP, WITH THE EDGE OF THE SWORD.
KILLING, KIDNAPPING, SLAVERY
[Josh. 16:10] So the Canaanites have dwelt in the midst of E'phraim to this day, but become slaves to do forced labour. (see also Joshua 17:13 and Judg. 1:30)
[Judg. 21:10] The congregation of Benjamin sent twelve thousand of their bravest men, and commanded them, "Go and smite the inhabitants of Ja'-besh-gil'ead with the edge of the sword; also the women and the little ones. Every male and every woman that has lain with a male YOU SHALL UTTERLY DESTROY.
And they found among the inhabitants four hundred YOUNG VIRGINS who had not known a man by lying with him; and they brought them to the camp of Shiloh, which is the land of Canaan. And Benjamin returned at that time, and they gave them the women whom they had saved alive of the women of Ja'besh-gil'ead, but they did not suffice for them.
STEALING WOMEN
And they commanded the Benjaminites, saying:"Go and lie in wait in the vineyard, and watch, if the daughters of Shiloh go out to dance in the dances, then come out of the vineyard and seize each man his wife from the daughters of Shiloh. And the Benjaminites did so, and took their wives from
the dancers whom they caught.
KILL THEM AND TAKE THEIR PROPERTIES
[Deut. 20:10] When you draw near to a city to fight against it, offer terms of peace to it. And if its answer to you is peace and it opens to you, then all the people who are found in it SHALL BE FORCED LABOUR FOR YOU AND SHALL SERVE YOU.
But if it makes no peace with you, then you shall besiege it, .. YOU SHALL PUT ALL ITS MALES TO THE SWORD, BUT THE WOMEN AND THE LITTLE ONES, the cattle and every thing else in the city all its spoil, YOU SHALL TAKE AS BOOTY FOR YOURSELVES; AND YOU SHALL ENJOY THE SPOIL OF YOUR ENEMIES.
REVENGE, SWORD, FIRE
[Heb. 12:29] OUR GOD IS DESTROYING FIRE.
[Psalm. 94:1] O LORD, YOU GOD OF VENGEANCE.
[Job 7:21] Why do not you pardon my transgression and take away my iniquity?
[Ezek. 11:8] God said, "You have feared the sword, the sword I will bring upon you."
[Amos 9:1] I will slay that left of them with the sword, not one of them shall flee away.. I WILL COMMAND THE SWORD, AND IT SHALL SLAY THEM.
[Jer.49:37] I will send the sword after them, until I have consumed them. (Let those who say Islam is the religion of the sword know that the word "sword" is never mentioned in the Quran while the Bible mentions it many times, in the way that you see here.) [Ezek. 12:14] I will unsheathe the sword after them. I will let a few of them escape from the sword, from famine and pestilence.
THE BIBLE MISREPRESENTS GOD'S MERCY
[Jer. 19:7] The Lord said, "T WILL MAKE THEM EAT THE FLESH OF THEIR SONS AND THEIR DAUGHTERS, and every one shall eat the flesh of his neighbour.
[Levi.26:14] If you will not hearken to me..21 I will bring a sword upon you.. 29 YOU SHALL EAT THE FLESH OF YOUR SONS, AND DAUGHTERS.
[Lam. 2:20] LOOK O LORD, AND SEE! WITH WHOM YOU HAVE DONE THAT: SHOULD WOMEN EAT THEIR FRUIT AND CHILDREN OF A SPAN LONG?
[Lam. 4:4] The hands of compassionate women have boiled their own childrenthey became their food.
SWORD AND FIRE IN NEW TESTAMENT
[Math. 10:34] "Do not think that I have come to make peace on earth? I HAVE NOT COME TO BRING PEACE, BUT A SWORD. "For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother." [said Jesus]!
[Luke. 12:49] 'I CAME TO CAST FIRE UPON THE EARTH, AND WOULD THAT IT WERE ALREADY KINDLED.. DO YOU THINK THAT I HAVE COME TO GIVE PEACE ON EARTH? NO, I TELL YOU, BUT RATHER DIVISION; for from henceforth in one house there will be five divided, three against two, and two against three. They will be divided, father against son, and son against father, mother against daughter, and daughter against her mother. [said Jesus]!
[Luke. 19:27] For these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, BRING THEM HERE AND SLAY THEM BEFORE ME.
[Luke. 14:26] If any one comes to me and does not HATE his own father and mother and wife, and children, and brothers and sisters yes and even his own life: he cannot be my disciple.
PAUL AND RACISM
[Gal. 2:15] Paul said, "We ourselves, who are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners."
[Gal. 4:22] For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave, and by a free women. BUT WHAT DOES THE SCRIPTURE SAY? "CAST OUT THE SLAVE AND HER SON, FOR THE SON OF SLAVE SHALL NOT INHERIT WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN" SO, BRETHREN WE ARE NOT CHILDREN OF THE SLAVE BUT OF THE FREE WOMAN."
GENTILES IN THE BIBLE
[Isia. 49:22] Thus the Lord said, "Behold I will lift up my hand to the gentiles, and raise up my signal to the people, and they shall bring your sons in their bosom, and your daughters shall be carried on their shoulders. Kings shall be your foster fathers, and their queens your nursing mothers. WITH THEIR FACES TO THE GROUND THEY SHALL BOW DOWN TO YOU, AND LICK THE DUST OF YOUR FEET.
[Isia. 60:4] Lift up your eyes round about, and see, they all gather together, they come to you. THE WEALTH OF THE NATIONS(in K.J.version: gentiles) SHALL COME UNTO YOU and the sons of the foreigners shall build up your walls, and their kings shall minister unto you...MEN MAY BRING UNTO YOU THE WEALTH OF THE NATIONS (in K.J. version: Gentiles)
WITH THEIR KINGS LED IN YOUR POSSESSION. For the nation and kingdom that will not serve you shall perish; those nations shall be utterly laid waste. YOU SHALL SUCK THE MILK OF THE NATIONS(in K.J. version: Gentiles), YOU SHALL SUCK THE BREAST OF KINGS.
[Isia. 61:5] And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedresses. BUT YOU SHALL BE NAMED THE PRIESTS OF THE LORD. Men shall call you the ministers of God. YOU SHALL EAT THE RICHES OF THE NATIONS(in K.J.version Gentiles) AND IN THEIR GLORY SHALL YOU BOAST YOURSELVES.
TAKE USURY FROM THE GENTILES ONLY
[Deut. 23:19] "Do not charge your brother interest, you may charge a foreigner interest, but not a brother Israelite." (The word Israelite according to the Good News Bible)
[Deut.15:1] Every creditor shall release what he has lent to his neighbour. He shall not exact it of his neighbour, his brother. Of a foreigner you may exact it. But whatever of yours is with your brother, your
hand shall release.
EX 21:23-25, LE 24:17-21, DT 19:21 An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, etc.
EX 22:20 Anyone who sacrifices to other gods must be destroyed.
LE 24:16 Whoever blasphemes the name of the Lord must be put to death.
NU 3:10 An unauthorized person who acts as a priest must be put to death.
DT 13:6-10 A man is required to slay his friends and members of his own family who are guilty of worshipping another god.
DT 17:12 A man who shows contempt for a judge or priest must be put to death.
DT 18:20-22, EZ 14:9 If a prophet's words do not come true, he is a false prophet and must be put to death. This is true even if he has been deceived by God himself.
DT 22:23-24 A betrothed virgin who is seduced in the city is to be put to death unless she cries for help.
PR 13:24, 22:15, 23:13 Children are to be disciplined with the rod-- if beaten with a rod, they will not die. (Note: Many Christian parents have inadvertently beaten a child to death following this precept.)
MT 5:29-30, 18:8-9, MK 9:43-47 If your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. If your hand causes you to sin, cut it off.
MK 10:2-12, LK 16:18 Divorce is wrong, and to remarry is to commit adultery.
LE 20:10-12, DT 22:22 Adulterers (in some cases) must be put to death.
Genesis 34:25 Three days later, while all of them were still in pain, two of Jacob's sons, Simeon and Levi, Dinah's brothers, took their swords and attacked the unsuspecting city, killing every male.
Exodus 32:27 Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says: 'Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.'"
Leviticus 26:29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters.
Numbers 21:35 So they struck him down, together with his sons and his whole army, leaving them no survivors. And they took possession of his land.
Numbers 31:31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses.
32 The plunder remaining from the spoils that the soldiers took was 675,000 sheep,
33 72,000 cattle,
34 61,000 donkeys
35 and 32,000 women who had never slept with a man.
36 The half share of those who fought in the battle was: 337,500 sheep,
37 of which the tribute for the LORD was 675;
38 36,000 cattle, of which the tribute for the LORD was 72;
39 30,500 donkeys, of which the tribute for the LORD was 61;
40 16,000 people, of which the tribute for the LORD was 32.
Deuteronomy 2 :33 The LORD our God delivered him over to us and we struck him down, together with his sons and his whole army.
34 At that time we took all his towns and completely destroyed
[1] them--men, women and children. We left no survivors.
Deuteronomy 20:13 When the LORD your God delivers it into your hand, put to the sword all the men in it. 14 As for the women, the children, the livestock and everything else in the city, you may take these as plunder for yourselves. And you may use the plunder the LORD your God gives you from your enemies.
Joshua 6:21 They devoted the city to the LORD and destroyed with the sword every living thing in it--men and women, young and old, cattle, sheep and donkeys.
Joshua 10:34 Then Joshua and all Israel with him moved on from Lachish to Eglon; they took up positions against it and attacked it.
35 They captured it that same day and put it to the sword and totally destroyed everyone in it, just as they had done to Lachish.
Judges 1:6 Adoni-Bezek fled, but they chased him and caught him, and cut off his thumbs and big toes.
Judges 9:45 All that day Abimelech pressed his attack against the city until he had captured it and killed its people. Then he destroyed the city and scattered salt over it.
1 Samuel 15:3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy[1] everything that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'"
Ezekiel 9:6 Slaughter old men, young men and maidens, women and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary." So they began with the elders who were in front of the temple.
The violence in Islam cannot remotely compare to this. And I didn’t even quote the texts reffering to women, or the revelating opinions of the founder of Prostestantism about women. “Judeo-Christian tradition” is what prevented the women in western world for being able to bear witness until late 19 century, among other things. The idea that achievements such as Human Rights came from this “tradition” is grotesque. It was made in spite of religion, not because of it. The HR and French Revolution have their origins in the Enlightenment movement, a group of secular if not atheist intelectuals. None of the human rights can be directly related to Judeo-Christian teaching in any way. The progresses were made because people took distance from their religion, keeping only the parts that interested them and ignoring the others (like women submission in Christianity and Judaism).
I think this is enough.
To Ispanan:
You write, ``[Islam] is the fastest growing religion in Occident with thens of thousands of new converts every year, many if not most of them women...``.
Where did you get that information from ? Women in Europe have been fighting for rights and freedoms. I can’t believe that they’ve abandoned their way of living and in large numbers convert themselves to Islam. Your claim is a wishful thinking.
To be continued ...
"Women in Europe have been fighting for rights and freedoms. I can’t believe that they’ve abandoned their way of living and in large numbers convert themselves to Islam. Your claim is a wishful thinking."
Only because you say it. Everyone who has looked to the matter can tell you the same:
Islam is the fastest-growing religion in America, a guide and pillar of stability for many of our people..." [HILLARY RODMAN CLINTON, Los Angeles Times, May 31, 1996, p.3]
Already more than a billion-people strong, Islam is the world’s fastest-growing religion. [ABCNEWS, Abcnews.com]
"Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the country." [NEWSDAY, March 7, 1989, p.4]
"Islam is the fastest-growing religion in the United States..." [NEW YORK TIMES, Feb 21, 1989, p.1]
Moslems are the world's fastest-growing group..." [USA TODAY, The Population Reference bureau, Feb. 17,
1989, p.4A ]
"Muhummed is the most successful of all Prophets and religious personalities. " [Encyclopedia Britannica]
"There are more Muslims in North America then Jews Now." [Dan Rathers, CBSNEWS]
"Islam is the fastest growing religion in North America." [TIMES MAGAZINE]
"Islam continues to grow in America, and no one can doubt that!" [CNN, December 15, 1995]
"The Religion of Islam is growing faster than any other religion in the world." [MIKE WALLACE, 60 MINUTES]
"MUHUMMAD WAS THE SOUL OF KINDNESS, AND HIS INFLUENCE WAS FELT AND NEVER FORGOTTEN BY THOSE AROUND HIM." A Hindu scholar [Diwan Chand Sharma in his "The Prophets of the East," Calcutta 1935, p. 122.]
"FOUR YEARS AFTER THE DEATH OF JUSTINIAN, A.D. 569, WAS BORN AT MAKKAH, IN ARABIA THE MAN WHO, OF ALL MEN EXERCISED THE GREATEST INFLUENCE UPON THE HUMAN RACE ... MOHAMMED ..." [John William Draper, M.D., LLD., in his "A History of the lntellectual Development of Europe",- London 1875.]
"I DOUBT WHETHER ANY MAN WHOSE EXTERNAL CONDITIONS CHANGED SO MUCH EVER CHANGED HIMSELF LESS TO MEET THEM." [R. V. C. Bodley in "The Messenger,"- London 1946, p.9.]
"I HAVE STUDIED HIM - THE WONDERFUL MAN - AND IN MY OPINION FAR FROM BEING AN ANTI-CHRIST, HE MUST BE CALLED THE SAVIOUR OF HUMANITY." [George Bernard Shaw, in "The Genuine Islam,- Vol. 1, No. 81936.]
"BY A FORTUNE ABSOLUTELY UNIQUE IN HISTORY, MOHAMMED IS A THREEFOLD FOUNDER OF A NATION, OF AN EMPIRE, AND OF A RELIGION." [R. Bosworth-Smith in "Mohammed and Mohammedanism".- 1946.]
"Five to 6 million strong, Muslims in America already outnumber Presbyterians, Episcopalians, and Mormons, and they are more numerous than Quakers, Unitarians, Seventh-day Adventists, Mennonites, Jehovah's Witnesses, and Christian Scientists, combined. Many demographers say Islam has overtaken Judaism as the country's second-most commonly practiced religion; others say it is in the passing lane." [JOHAN BLANK,
US NEWS (7/20/98)]
"In fact, Religion experts say Islam is the second-largest religion in the United States... Islam has 5 million to 6 million members, followed by Judaism, with approximately 4.5 million..... And Islam is believed to be fastest-growing religion in the country, with half its expansion coming from new immigrants and the other half from conversions." [By ELSA C. ARNETT Knight-Ridder News Service]
Now you ask yourself why would people, especially women, convert to this bad religion? Because it is so bad? Or because Islam is not like some want to portray it?
Here is this brillant woman's story. Will you draw conclusions from it?
A Woman on a Mission
Sidra Khan reports on Aisha Bhutta's bid to convert the world to Islam
The Guardian, Thursday 8th May 1997
Aisha Bhutta, nee Debbie Rogers, is serene. She sits on the sofa in big front room of her tenement flat in Cowcaddens, Glasgow. The walls are hung with quotations from the Koran, a special clock to remind the family of prayer times and posters of the Holy City of Mecca. Aisha's piercing blue eyes sparkle with evangelical zeal, she smiles with a radiance only true believers possess. Her face is that of a strong Scots lass - no nonsense, good-humoured - but it is carefully covered with a hijab.
For a good Christian girl to convert to Islam and marry a Muslim is extraordinary enough. But more than that, she has also converted her parents, most of the rest of her family and at least 30 friends and neighbours.
Her family were austere Christians with whom Rogers regularly attended Salvation Army meetings. When all the other teenagers in Britain were kissing their George Michael posters goodnight, Rogers had pictures of Jesus up on her wall. And yet she found that Christianity was not enough; there were too many unanswered questions and she felt dissatisfied with the lack of disciplined structure for her beliefs. "There had to be more for me to obey than just doing prayers when I felt like it."
For a good Christian girl to convert to Islam and marry a Muslim is extraordinary enough. But more than that, she has also converted her parents, most of the rest of her family and at least 30 friends and neighbours.
Aisha had first seen her future husband, Mohammad Bhutta, when she was 10 and regular customer at the shop, run by his family. She would see him in the back, praying. "There was contentment and peace in what he was doing. He said he was a Muslim. I said: "What's a Muslim?".
Later with his help she began looking deeper into Islam. By the age of 17, she had read the entire Koran in Arabic. "Everything I read", she says, "was making sense."
She made the decision to convert at16. "When I said the words, it was like a big burden I had been carrying on my shoulders had been thrown off. I felt like a new-born baby."
Despite her conversion however, Mohammed's parents were against their marrying. They saw her as a Western woman who would lead their eldest son astray and give the family a bad name; she was, Mohammed's father believed, "the biggest enemy."
Nevertheless, the couple married in the local mosque. Aisha wore a dress hand-sewn by Mohammed's mother and sisters who sneaked into the ceremony against the wishes of his father who refused to attend.
It was his elderly grandmother who paved the way for a bond between the women. She arrived from Pakistan where mixed-race marriages were even more taboo, and insisted on meeting Aisha. She was so impressed by the fact that she had learned the Koran and Punjabi that she convinced the others; slowly, Aisha, now 32, became one of the family.
Aisha's parents, Michael and Marjory Rogers, though did attend the wedding, were more concerned with the clothes their daughter was now wearing (the traditional shalwaar kameez) and what the neighbours would think. Six years later, Aisha embarked on a mission to convert them and the rest of her family, bar her sister ("I'm still working on her). "My husband and I worked on my mum and dad, telling them about Islam and they saw the changes in me, like I stopped answering back!"
Her mother soon followed in her footsteps. Marjory Rogers changed her name to Sumayyah and became a devout Muslim. "She wore the hijab and did her prayers on time and nothing ever mattered to her except her connections with God."
Aisha's father provd a more difficult recruit, so she enlisted the help of her newly converted mother (who has since died of cancer). "My mum and I used to talk to my father about Islam and we were sitting in the sofa in the kitchen one day and he said: "What are the words you say when you become a Muslim?" "Me and my mum just jumped on top of him." Three years later, Aisha's brother converted "over the telephone - thanks to BT", then his wife and children followed, followed by her sister's son.
It didn't stop there. Her family converted, Aisha turned her attention to Cowcaddens, with its tightly packed rows of crumbling, grey tenement flats. Every Monday for the past 13 years, Aisha has held classes in Islam for Scottish women. So far she has helped to convert over 30.
The women come from a bewildering array of backgrounds. Trudy, a lecturer at the University of Glasgow and a former Catholic, attended Aisha's classes purely because she was commissioned to carry out some research. But after six months of classes she converted, deciding that Christianity was riddled with "logical inconsistencies". Unlike Aisha, Trudy has chosen not to wear the hijab, believing it to be a masculine interpretation of the Koran. Her family don't know that she has converted.
"I could tell she was beginning to be affected by the talks", Aisha says. How could she tell? "I don't know, it was just a feeling."
The classes include Muslim girls tempted by Western ideals and needing salvation, practising Muslim women who want an open forum for discussion denied them at the local male-dominated mosque, and those simply interested in Islam. Aisha welcomes questions. "We cannot expect people blindly to believe."
Her husband, Mohammad Bhutta, now 41, does not seem so driven to convert Scottish lads to Muslim brothers. He occasionally helps out in the family restaurant, but his main aim in life is to ensure the couple's five children grow up as Muslims. The eldest, Safia, "nearly 14, alhamdulillah (Praise be to God!)", is not averse to a spot of recruiting herself. One day she met a woman in the street and carried her shopping, the woman attended Aisha's classes and is now a Muslim.
"I can honestly say I have never regretted it", Aisha says of her conversion to Islam. "Every marriage has its ups and downs and sometimes you need something to pull you out of any hardship. But the Prophet Peace by upon him, said: 'Every hardship has an ease.' So when you're going through a difficult stage, you work for that ease to come."
Mohammed is more romantic: "I feel we have known each other for centuries and must never part from one another. According to Islam, you are not just partners for life, you can be partners in heaven as well, for ever. Its a beautiful thing, you know."
Archimedes,
I don't claim to be an expert on the Quran. But I have been told that the verses in Sura 5 that are parallel to the Biblical promises of the Land to Israel are early. Further, I have been told that the early verses were superseded and thus, in effect, nullified by later verses. This is I believe the distinction between the "Meccan" and "Medinan" verses. On the other hand, the verses in the Quran that may be considered Zionist are scattered throughout several Suras, which may mean that the Meccan-Medinan distinction is itself late and tendentious. Further, these early "Zionist" verses were never removed from the Quran. They were kept in. My speculation is that in the earlier version or versions of the Quran, before the currently accepted version, there may have been a closer adherence to what the Bible said in regard to the Land of Israel and the divine promise of the Land. But this is as yet unconfirmed speculation on my part.
Ispanan,
Much of what you are citing from the Bible was never revised or altered by Mohammad, but was rather accepted by Mohammad (see point 5, below). Mohammad ordered, allowed, or committed every major criminal or immoral act: mass slaughter, assassination, and execution, of innocent people (including women and children in some cases); torture; rape, mass rape including forcible impregation of captive women and slaves; wife-beating, marital infidelity, sexual assault and coercion of a child, theft and raiding, breaking treaties, permitting slavery, hate crimes and religiously-based apartheid, and so on. Almost everything bad that you cite from the Old Testament, and more that is not found there, Mohammad not only did, but claimed was divinely approved.
I agree with two major points from your post (the one with all the partial quotes from the Old Testament): First, that there are violent passages in the Bible, mostly in the Old Testament, and, second, that many of the modern human rights and freedoms we value today come from the work of atheists who were either not relying on religious texts or consciously working against certain problems in such texts.
That said, here are some of the problems with your presentation:
1. The article for this thread is about a Palestinian Muslim mother who, TODAY, IN REAL LIFE, is following the Koran, believes that killing Jews is a religious duty (Hadiths in Bukhari and Muslim, regarded as valid, support this and are sometimes quoted approvingly in the mainsteam Palestinian media), believes in the Paradise rewards for martyrdom (according to the Koran, martyrs are the best company of Allah, on a level with the prophets and saints), and has taught her sons these same beliefs. Her sons have apparently acted on these beliefs. But instead of discussing this current, relevant problem, a problem that will likely continue for some unknown amount of time in our future, you wish to take us back to Old Testament mythology, and upon which almost no one today (except certain Muslims!—see point 5, below) is willing to act. Show us the Christian and Jewish groups today that act upon these Old Testament violent commands.
2. I think most people at this site are aware of the violence in the Bible. Most people at this site are also aware that Judaism and Christianity have interpretive traditions that reject harsh and literalist readings of many of the verses that you cite. Indeed, many Jewish and Christian thinkers have focussed on the good aspects of their doctrines and have contributed to our modern ‘Western’ views on human rights.
But Islam does not have any significant traditions that reject violent jihad. Mainstream Sunni and Shia Islam has never rejected the doctrines of obligatory violent jihad. This violent jihad is for the purpose of spreading Islam if the infidels do not accept it willingly.
The Islamic laws, based on Koran and Hadith, regarding the killing of blasphemers are still officially in place in many Islamic Paradises (e.g., Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran). Even some elements of the post-Taliban government in Afghanistan want a return to this harsh blasphemy law. Indeed, 51 Islamic countries officially have been putting considerable pressure on Denmark over the publication of Mohammad cartoons in a Danish newspaper, lobbying the U.N. to censure Denmark. Of course, many Muslims want to do their Koranic duty and execute the cartoonists, the publishers of the newspaper, and the government officials who expressed support for it, etc. Clearly, a majority of the world’s Muslims is trying to impose a harsh blasphemy law upon the entire world.
There are no such blasphemy laws in place today protecting any religion from criticism. Only Islam has this law in practice today. Only Islamists want to enact it. Critics of Islam, almost anywhere in the world, must fear for their lives if they criticize Islam publicly.
3. You are essentially dumping a whole pile of Biblical quotes on us, and you apparently have not even bothered to find out what some of them say or mean. Some of these are metaphorical. For example, in Matthew 10:34, the “sword” is a metaphor for division, not an actual physical sword. The verse is intolerant, but it does not instruct believers to put disbelievers to the sword—unlike Mohammad’s imperialistic and intolerant Sura 9. This division (apartheid) between the believers and disbelievers is of course a central aspect of Islamic doctrine. And as we know, the Koran and Hadith do call for killing disbelievers.
4. The Koran and Hadith and Sira all agree that the goal of Islam is to conquer the whole world, to make all religion for Allah, and that this must be achieved through force, as a religious duty required of Muslims, if the non-Muslims do not accept Islam willingly. Disbelievers must be converted, or else subjected to dhimmi status, or else killed by believers. Neither Judaism nor Christianity command believers to kill, convert, or subjugate all disbelievers until all religion is for their God. Rather, this imperialistic, open-ended policy, to be enacted by believers, is unique to Islam. This is a major cause of the violence and slaughter we’ve seen over the past 1400 years, and it is the main reason behind the vast majority of unjustified killing today in the world.
5. Much of what you are citing as bad from the Torah and Gospels is accepted by mainstream Islam. According to Mohammad’s revelations, most of the Christians and Jews are bunglers, liars, infidels; they ignored, corrupted, or transgressed the Torah and Gospels. The Koran is supposed to “correct” whatever problems there were in the previous texts, but does confirm much of the Gospels and Torah as well. For examples…
[Shakir 2:136] Say: We believe in Allah and (in) that which had been revealed to us, and (in) that which was revealed to Ibrahim and Ismail and Ishaq and Yaqoub and the tribes, and (in) that which was given to Musa and Isa, and (in) that which was given to the prophets from their Lord, we do not make any distinction between any of them, and to Him do we submit.
[Yusufali 2:136] Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)."
[Pickthal 2:136] Say (O Muslims): We believe in Allah and that which is revealed unto us and that which was revealed unto Abraham, and Ishmael, and Isaac, and Jacob, and the tribes, and that which Moses and Jesus received, and that which the prophets received from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and unto Him we have surrendered.
[Pooya/Ali Commentary 2:136]
The religion of Islam is universal, for all people, in every age. Therefore, it is necessary for every follower of Islam to believe in all the prophets and messengers of Allah and in what was revealed to them. No other religion besides Islam demands from its followers to believe equally in the sinless purity of the conduct and character of other prophets of Allah, and in the truthfulness of other sacred scriptures as the revealed words of Allah.
http://al-islam.org/quran/
Also see 9:111.
[Shakir 9:111] Surely Allah has bought of the believers their persons and their property for this, that they shall have the garden; they fight in Allah's way, so they slay and are slain; a promise which is binding on Him in the Taurat and the Injeel and the Quran; and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? Rejoice therefore in the pledge which you have made; and that is the mighty achievement.
[Yusufali 9:111] Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.
[Pickthal 9:111] Lo! Allah hath bought from the believers their lives and their wealth because the Garden will be theirs: they shall fight in the way of Allah and shall slay and be slain. It is a promise which is binding on Him in the Torah and the Gospel and the Qur'an. Who fulfilleth His covenant better than Allah? Rejoice then in your bargain that ye have made, for that is the supreme triumph.
A typo in my above post:
"forcible impregation of captive women and slaves"
"impregation" should say impregnation
So let's see, according to you, even tough Mohammad thought most of the Christians and Jews are bunglers, liars, infidels, and that they ignored, corrupted, or transgressed the Torah and Gospels, THEY STILL ACCEPT THE TORAH AND THE BIBLE.
Sorry: *he* still accepted
Ispanan,
Lol! You've stepped in it again! The Koran contains those seemingly inconsistent propositions. I'm just telling you what's in it. In fact, I just showed you what's in it. But you're supposed to be a Muslim. How can you not even know what's in your Koran?