Zawahri says U.S. defeated in Iraq

"Bush, you must confess that you have been defeated in Iraq and in Afghanistan and you will be in Palestine soon," he said in the video broadcast by Al Jazeera television....

...and Murtha, and Ted Kennedy, and Howard Dean. I wish the DNC would take a good hard look at who agrees with them.

In a sense, Zawahiri is right, but not in the sense he means.

I suspect the troop reductions are as much about Iraq's own forces coming on stream and proving themselves fairly effective, but certainly Kevin is right about the likes of Rep. Murta, Ted Kennedy, et al doing an enormous disservice to Coalition forces and to the many Iraqis who have repeatedly risked death by defying Al Qaeda in the Land of Two Rivers to go out and vote.

Zawahiri's crowing isn't exactly the same as the notorious former Iraqi Minister of Information who hysterically denied that Bagdad had been taken by the Coalition, but it's in the same reality-disconnected vein. Neither the Taliban nor Al Qaeda have exactly been an overwhelmingly popular movement.

"My Muslim nation, you will never enjoy free elections ... and governments answerable to their people ... unless you are liberated from the Crusader-Zionist occupation and corrupt governments, and that can only be achieved through jihad (holy war)."...

- It looks to me like he contradicts himself here - You cannot have governments answerable to the people by voting for them (?)

Roland, Muslims only consider themselves to be free to-be-truly-Muslim if they are living under Islamic law - the very antithesis of freedom from our point of view. To us, it is a contradiction, to them, it isn't.

My Muslim nation, you will never enjoy free elections ... and governments answerable to their people ... unless you are liberated from the Crusader-Zionist occupation and corrupt governments, and that can only be achieved through jihad (holy war)."...

Take a close look and the true nature of Islam is clear as daylight. Full of contradictions and catch 22s, such as:

- Islam is a religion of peace, at war with other religions (Dar al-Harb).

- Taking a human life is like killing humanity, but if you leave Islam, you will be killed.

- Submission to Allah is a pre-requisit, to attain paradise.

- Women are respectd in Islam, but need a man to validate them.

and so on......

Islam is designed to deceive those it can fool and eliminate those it can't.

This reminds me that Saddam also declared "victory" after the first Gulf War.

These are people who will put a positive spin on everything until they're looking down the barrel of a US rifle-- which I'm sure, awaits Zawahiri at some point. At that point, they're "willing to negotiate." ;)

But I think the most striking thing in the video, from what I've seen so far, is that Zawahiri's looking pretty gaunt; then there's that splotch that's taking over his forehead-- all that holiness overflowing? I'm sure a dermatologist would agree.

As waterdragon52 posits above -- Mr. Z. may be correct... But not in the triumphal way he typically pronounces ( was that asinine Muslim finger stabbing in the air, as is his and his ilk's wont...? )

Elsewhere I have surmised that we have already lost a great deal by simply entangling ourselves with Islam, and by permitting Muslims en masse into our non-Muslim domains...

One thing is for certain -- while we may benefit temporarily by an Iraq which toys with pluralism and democracy, over the long haul there is NO evidence that Islam is likely to change its nature by this exposure, or that Iraqi Muslims will abandon their cherished hatreds or their fealty for fascist Islam...

Furthermore, observe the privileged Muslim in the West -- where is the "tolerant" version of Islam which was supposed to flow from exposure to Western pluralism and true moderation? What I observe is a Muslim "citizen" which seems to continue to reject what the West has to offer... What I observe is a Muslim "citizen" who heralds from the most backward ignorant hate filled hell holes on Earth coming to the most advanced societies with finger wagging, and with arrogance and contempt for our clearly superior culture. What I observe is a Muslim "citizen" which continues a fervent addiction for tribal primitivism, continued embrace of former tribal hatreds, and an increased devotion for his supremacist views with regards to all non-muslims. Yes, despite the overwhelming evidence that HE comes from backwardness, that HIS ideas are flawed, the HE is without answers of value or substance... we are continuously treated to endless Muslim rants about how WE must change our thinking, how WE must change our policies, how WE have done the most to contribute to the growing sense that a bloody clash of cultures is afoot -- and this, all in spite of the clear and ample evidence that Islam is a hateful and disgustingly anti-human ideology....

What I observe is a constant threat that the Muslim, ANY Muslim in the West, is susceptive to sympathy for any terrorism that it is seen to further Islam's cause, and that some portion of this inimical community has proven in Europe and America that Muslims continue to harbor an atavistic tendency to revert again into the feral and vicious origins of their Islamic "faith".

It seems to be only a matter of time before a certain confluence of frustrations and rage compel the Muslim to fall back into the historic pattern of Islamic violence and hatred...

Q: Has Islam won against us?

A: If we are unsuccessful at removing the poisonous influence of Islam from our midst -- their victory is all but guaranteed in our lands and everywhere...

BTW -- that "splotch" is probably evidence of his fervent head hitting the fervent floor as he fervently follows his feverish God's ruthless demands to prostrate himself over the course of the day...

Haven't you noticed a similar "mark" on many a Muslim brow? It is a truly a sign, a bruiting bruise, if you will, of the zealotry and devotion of the pious "believer..."

Good point-- I bet it originally read "666," but it must have gotten smudged when he did the prayer head-biff.

They will claim victory regardless of what we do. If we press forward and have them against the wall, that's merely a "strategic setback," and capitulation would be "cutting losses" until the next advantageous opportunity...

So I was right he is in Iran??

Didn't see his latest movie was he still hanging out with the Laundry??

ROTF L!!!

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2006/1/6/170606.shtml
Latest Al-Qaida Tape Taunts Bush, Cites Troop Cuts
NewsMax.com Wires
Saturday, Jan. 7, 2006
CAIRO, Egypt -- Al-Qaida's No. 2, Ayman al-Zawahri,

"I call on mujahedeen to focus their attacks on Muslims' embezzled oil. Most of its revenues go to the enemies of Islam; meanwhile most of what is left is taken by the thieves who are ruling our countries," he said.

OH MY NOW COULD THIS BE WHATR THE RUSSIANS ARE PISSED ABOUT??

OH MY AGAIN #2

NOW THE PIT IS FILLING UP WHERE IS #1???

WHEN WILL THE IRAQIS GET PISSED AT THE IRANIS SENDING PEOPLE TO KIL THEIR PEOPLE??

THE MOSQUE BLAST WAS IRAN HOW DO I KNOW BECAUSE IF IT WERE THE SUNNI'S THEY WOULD HAVE TAKEN OUT THE MOSQUE CAUSE THEY WORSHIP ANOTHER??

OH kitty guess no food or water for the Kitty??

Sad Sad Sad!!

Sad that they think the west is so stupid??

http://www.beecy.net/frank/

Qur’an 74:31 “We have appointed nineteen angels to be the wardens of the Hell Fire. We made a stumbling-block for those who disbelieve and We have fixed their number as a trial for unbelievers in order that the people of the Book may arrive with certainty, and that no doubts may be left for the people of the Book, those in whose hearts is a disease. And for those to whom the Scripture Book has been given, and the believers, there should be no doubt. The unbelievers may say, ‘What does the Lord intend by this?’ The Lord will lead astray whomever He pleases, and He will guide whomever He pleases: and none can know the armies of your Lord except He, and this is no other than a warning to mankind.”

This can be broken by Yes it is the Army of the people of the Book who he has chosen to Free [USA] the Iraqi people as it says

He will guide whomever He pleases: and none can know the armies of your Lord except He, and this is no other than a warning to mankind.”

Yes he has chosen the USA!!
TO FREE THE IRAQI PEOPLE FROM THE MONSTER saddam [FOUND IN A HOLE DON’T SHOOT I’M A YELLOW COWARD]

And let’s look at another part?

The Lord will lead astray whomever He pleases,

Ubl,saddam,zawari,all who Kill and destroy mankind?

There will be no more warnings?

Earthquake in Iran kills 31,000 who harbors ubls[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] son and wife’s??

And now Locus in Egypt

NOW IF THAT IS NOT TELLING YOU ARE ON THE WRONG PATH NOTHING WILL??

Kazakhstan Blast in mine??

Islamic terrorist- killing Iraqis??

Earthquake in Algeria??

The typhoon in Philippines Remember they ran away from the Fight in Iraq??

http://www.onlypunjab.com/fullstory1104-insight-Pink+Locusts+from+North+Africa-status-15-newsID-503.html
Pink Locusts from North Africa Swarm Through Cairo
Publish Date : 11/18/2004 5:09:00 PM Source : Science and Technology News Onlypunjab.com
Swarms of pink locusts swept through the Egyptian capital on Wednesday, evoking the biblical description of the plagues which struck in the time of Moses.
The swarms of millions flew high above tall towers or swooped down onto treelined streets, where scared pedestrians stamped
on them or ran for cover.
The flying insects arrived from neighboring Libya after devouring the countryside in central and western Africa in past months.

YES I SAY ubl[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] is losing and trying to regain control??

What verses did he say in his rambling and to say about the people of the book??

The people of
the book didn’t lose their crops??

Now Earthquake of mulsum Islands of Indonesia?? 9.3 and afterwards mass killer waves that effect many countries?/

Who is coming to the aid of the people But the Red Cross and India to help the people and Israel and the USA and the Western countries!!
210,000, mulsum killed in Indonesia alone?? Whole mulsum towns gone?? And Churches still standing??
We are waiting for the mulsums to help other mulsums?? Or with the entire fund raising they do help people instead of making war??

And now more 6.2 earthquakes in Indonesia?? Because they have sent Islamic terrorist to terrorize the victims of the killer wave??

January 11, 2005 Philippines an 4.3 Earthquake ??
Maybe small there because the fight against Islamic Terrorist??
Was ubls[YELLOW COWARD WHO RUNS AWAY] family in
Indonesia we know they support Islamic Terrorist??
January 23 6.3 Earthquake in Indonesia??

AND THE LATES FOR THE FOLLOWERS OF THE CURSED??

http://www.lse.co.uk/ShowStory.asp?story=NL712421F&news_headline=abu_hamza_covered_in_scabs

Since then, he has been charged in the UK with 16 offences including soliciting others to murder non-believers, racial hatred and possessing a document liable to help terrorists.

Hook-handed cleric Abu Hamza is covered from head to foot in scabs because he has an ailment that makes his skin bleed.
One theory is that he could have psioriasis, which results in flakes falling from crusty red patches on the skin.

NOW IF THIS AINT TELLING YOU SOMETHING??

May 29,2005 Indonesia mulsums kill Christians in a Market try to blow up a church?? 22 dead 40 injured?

May 30,2005 an Earthquake in Indonesia in mulsum region??

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,158667,00.html
5.7-Magnitude Quake Hurts 37 in Turkey
Monday, June 06, 2005

ANKARA, Turkey — An earthquake () with a preliminary magnitude of 5.7 shook southeastern Turkey () on Monday, injuring at least 37 people, officials said
http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17552130-23109,00.html
A 6.7-magnitude earthquake struck the Hindu Kush region of Afghanistan early today, the US Geological Survey said.
People in Pakistani Kashmir, where tens of thousands were killed by an earthquake on October 8, fled their homes when the quake struck, residents said.

More than 73,000 people were killed and around 500,000 left homeless in Pakistani Kashmir and the neighbouring North West Frontier Province of Pakistan when a 7.8-magnitude quake rocked the region on October 8.

OH YEA WHERE THE ISLAMIC TERRORIST HANG OUT??

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/pictures/BAN02.htm
Aerial view of mosque surrounded by flood waters in Hat Yai
20 Dec 2005
Source: Reuters
An aerial view of a mosque surrounded by flood waters in Hat Yai, the largest city in southern Thailand, December 19, 2005. Torrential monsoon rains have wreaked havoc across Thailand's south in the past week. Picture taken December 19, 2005. THAILAND OUT

what was that about the pussy being hungry and needing water??

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17552130-23109,00.html
Quake rocks Afghanistan
From: Reuters
From correspondents in Islamabad
December 13, 2005
A 6.7-magnitude earthquake struck the Hindu Kush region of Afghanistan early today, the US Geological Survey said.
People in Pakistani Kashmir, where tens of thousands were killed by an earthquake on October 8,

NOW IF THAT AINT TELLING YOU SOME-THING??

like i said
ROTFL !!!!

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM LET NOT THE WORLD BE DECIEVED BY THEM AND GIVE THE WORLD COURAGE TO STAND UP AND FIGHT THIS EVIL AMEN

PS
You dumb mulsums out there the Russians were not pissed about oil but the Sub Base??

If Iran attacks Israel I hope Israel takes out all the oil fields in the Mulsum countrys can you eat oil?? seams 22 out of 33 county's in Indonesia have Bird Flue???

New Flue Warning from the Goverment to Stock Up on Suplies and be ready to Teach your Children @ home??

I for one whish someone would

Smack this Nazi Islamic war criminal with a pork chop in his ugly face.

2. take him out publicly and shoot his Nasty Islamic Terrorist ASS

3. then Tell the Rest of the Islamic world.. the thruth... Zarchawi and others like him exist
Because of Islam and the evil it represents..

4. He states you will only have democracy when you kill the jews and the infidel invaders..

How about they might want to be free from

Islamic Terrorist Pork loving Child molesting mass murders like you zarchawi

Your actions every day speak volumes about the True meaning of Islam ...

And it has nothing to do with peace....

And to our friends on the left...
You love the islamo faschists
You love the communists...
You crave the day the Usa is defeated...

We WILL Remember each one of your names...
Some day you will pay for your treason...

Maybe not by my hands.... nor americans...

But God in heaven who protects Israel will remember your Betrayal of our nation..

There are people who believe that if Zawahiri says something, we must solemnly pay solemn attention to it, and if, in giving his own interpretation to events, he attempts to claim such-and-such as a victory, we must, therefore, believe the exact opposite.

Does Zawahiri claim that the cut in American troops represents a defeat for the Infidel Americans? Yes, he does. What for god's sake did you expect did he would do? Will he, and a million others, as the Americans withdraw, whenever they withdraw, scream hysterically that this is an American defeat and a victory for Islam? Of course they will. What do you expect?

Will they swiftly disabused, when the Shi'a are let loose, no longer held in check by the Americans both suppressing the Sunnis and also protecting them (and all the while attempting to create, at great and wasteful cost, the impossible dream of an "Iraqi" army, consisting of Sunni, Shi'a and Kurds working and fighting and trusting one another, side by side, and ditto for that "Iraqi" police force)? Perhaps not right away, but within -- oh, a month -- all that screaming in delight, as not only the withdrawal, but the determined attention then given to a hundred other things, the shut-down of Muslim immigration not only to the U.S. but beginning to be the subject of discussions with in NATO, or bilaterally with individual European allies, and then the moves made, quickly made one hopes, against the Iranian nuclear project, and the weapons-drops to Kurdistan, and the noises made about finally coming in with troops to rescue the blacks, Christian and Muslim, from the Arabs of the north in the Sudan, and then the stories carefully let loose about the "Free Biafra" movement, and the ending of jizyah aid --not diminished but ended, to Egypt and the "Palestinians" and to Pakistan, our phony ally (the search for Bin Laden and company is essentially trivial, and keeping it up at the cost of shelling out money to, and further indulging, the Pakistani generals, no matter how plausible they can appear, is absurd).

Of course those for whom This Administration Can Do No Wrong, will be quick, in their primitive way, to use Zawahiri's words as a stick with whcih to beat everyone -- including those at this website, who have nothing in common with almost all the others ordinarily mentioned -- who thinks the American troops should leave Iraq. They want it because they are willing to appease. A quick-off-the-mark example is given in the first, perfectly predictable posting above:

"'Bush, you must confess that you have been defeated in Iraq and in Afghanistan and you will be in Palestine soon," he said in the video broadcast by Al Jazeera television....'"

"...and Murtha, and Ted Kennedy, and Howard Dean. I wish the DNC would take a good hard look at who agrees with them."

Perfectly predictable.

Get it: if Zawahiri says it, we are to take it as the gospel truth. He says the American withdrawal is a defeat for the Americans. I say no -- I say that Zawahiri is wrong. I say that the complete withdrawal of Americans from Iraq will, in the end, do far more to weaken Islam from within, and far more to damage the image of Islam without, among the Infidels, and far more to cause a new and better allocation of American and other Infidel resources, and attention paid to much more pressing matters than the absurd Light Unto the Muslim Nations project of the naive and obstinate who now cannot, simply cannot, admit that they did not know about Islam, and did not know about Iraq.

Well, choose. You may believe, with that eager poster, that we must always do the opposite of what Zawahiri says -- that our policy should be based on what this or that fanatical Muslim claims, or for that matter, on what ordinary Muslims claim, for we are told that our troops will leave Iraq "when the Iraqis tell us to go" -- quite an astonishing idea.

Or you may choose to believe that we are quite capable of figuring out for ourselves whether or not an American withdrawal will be a defeat, or can be -- and almost certainly will be -- a victory, or rather the only kind of victory in Iraq that could conceivably matter, which is to cause Iraq to be the source of dissension and hostility within Islam itself, by further encouraging both the sectarian and ethnic fissures.

Choose: Zawahiri's analysis of what Iraq presents, or that very different view, so often presented in detail at this website.

Which one makes more sense to you?

Hugh
We have already Won In Both theaters no matter what the #2 [GUY WHO HANGS WITH WOMENS LAUNDREY] says.

We will leave when we want to leave. You are right about this we are just trying to give these people a shot at a better life and FREEDOM if they can not handel this well then it should be back to the Ways of our Grandfathers and desamate the country from the air and clean up from the Ground like in WW2.

If you want to rebuild then after the bombs are done and all the bad guys are killed ENOUGH OF THE LIB WAY OF FIGHTING FIGHT TO WIN WHAT EVER IT TAKES.

As for all the Dem's out there who are worried about them listening in on you phone well this just shows you haven't Flown lately TAKE OFF HALF OUR CLOTHES GET FEELED UP All to save time because the mulsums might get offened

YEA FREEDOM BABY...

Well I talked to a Jersy Gal and she said every women should be a Democrat?

I said put aside abortion and what do the Democrats have to offer?

She Said?

Dumb look] then ]"nothing right now"

Then we went back to talking about the French and All the Cars Burned on New Years by mulsums??

No WE ARE WINNING..

But remember the 3 Ts/

THINGS TAKE TIME...

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO STAY THE COURSE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

PS
My disappointment is the Russians I thought they were smarter than what they are showing to be a bunch of Dimmis..

LIKE I SAID CAN THEY EAT BLACK OIL??

ROTFL??

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L06611742.htm
Millions risk starvation in E.Africa - FAO
06 Jan 2006
Source: Reuters
By Silvia Aloisi
ROME, Jan 6 (Reuters) - Six million people are on the brink of starvation in the Horn of Africa region due to severe drought, crop failure and depletion of livestock herds, the United Nations said on Friday.
The U.N.'s Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO) said about 2 million people needed urgent humanitarian help in Somalia. The situation was also very serious in south-eastern Ethiopia, with up to 1.5 million people affected, and Djibouti.

WONDER HOW MUCH FOOD THE OTHER MULSUM COUNTRIES HAVE TO SEND THEIR WAY??

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/PEK5856.htm
China confirms new bird flu outbreak in southwest
04 Jan 2006
Source: Reuters
(Updates with quotes, details, changes sourcing)
BEIJING, Jan 4 (Reuters) - China confirmed a bird flu outbreak in the southwestern province of Sichuan, a Food and Agriculture Organisation official said, adding cold weather and Chinese New Year holidays could mean more cases to come.
More than 1,800 poultry were found dead on Dec. 22 on a farm in Sichuan's Dazhu county and Agriculture Ministry officials sent to the area confirmed the birds had the H5N1 strain of the virus.
Since then, 12,900 poultry in the region had been culled to try to contain the virus, which is found mostly in birds but which scientists fear could mutate into a form that can pass easily between people, leading to a pandemic.
In response to the latest outbreak, Hong Kong's government said it had stopped processing requests to import live poultry and poultry meat from Sichuan.

NOW THAT CAN'T BE GOOD NOT ENOUGH FOOD FOR CHINA OR THEIR MULSUM FRIENDS??

"In wintertime, we really are concerned because the risk is higher. The more the environment is ideal for the virus the more outbreaks we are expecting," said Noureddin Mona, China representative for the UN Food and Agriculture Organisation.
China has confirmed seven human cases of bird flu, including three deaths.

LETS NOT FORGET THE DEATHS IN TURKY OR THE LATEST DEATHS IN INDONESIA??

NO

I HAVE TO LOL AT #2[WHO HANGS OUT WITH WOMENS LAUNDRY]

ROTFL!!

WHEN WILL THE IRAQIS GET PISSED AT THE IRANIS WHO SEND PEOPLE TO KILL THEIR CHILDREN??

Part of the American Tribe
Squirrel Hunter
Spider Killer
GOD BLESS THE USA AND HER FIGHTING FORCES AND ALL WHO FIGHT WITH HER GIVE THEM STRENGTH, WISDOM, SIGHT, AND COURAGE TO DESTROY ALL ISLAMIC TERRORIST AND ALL WHO SUPPORT THEM AMEN

I said more than a year ago that the Americans' departure from Iraq is only a matter of time,"

yeah, and it would have been MUCH sooner if this guy and his murderous friends hadn't invaded a country that wasn't theirs

the difference is the coalition troops would have gone home but this guy and his murderers would have gone to the next jihad site looking to get to paradise by their continuing imperialist expansion of islam

"The farther backward you can look, the farther forward you are likely to see."
~Winston Churchill

Al Zarqawi is sounding more and more like the Black Knight ever day. he's already lost one arm and will be reduced to kicking his oppositions' shins.
What an idiot.
Sooner or later some local will drop a dime on him and that will be it. They might even whack him themselves.

IBM

Hugh,
Let me clarify, I think it's ill advised for US politians to critisize the war effort while we're at war. Many of the things said put our troops in greater danger by instigating the theory that the coalition forces are somehow acting illeagaly and/or immorally. I do believe it's possible to be opposed to the Iraq war without inflaming hatred towards the US and it's policies, but these statements are often patisan politics at it's most dangerous. A prime example being the desire to impeach Bush over wire tapping of potential terroists. Claiming victory is a common tactic of "psyops", so why would American politicians claim otherwise? The coalition did win this war, Saddam and his sons are history, but I hope I'm allowed to question the theory that the Iraqi's are better off without the troops, while not being singled out for personal attacks.

Why would one wait until the Americans are out of Iraq to criticize the policy of their remaining in Iraq? The waste of men's lives, money, materiel, the damage to military and civilian morale at the very beginning of a new Cold War, exists now, and is continuing. The chance to leave Iraq, and to play on the sectarian and ethnic divisions, exists now.

What you say makes no sense. As for being exempt from a "personal attack" -- there was no "personal attack." There was an attack on the sentimients expressed. I know nothing about you as a person; but if you express things that I think deserve criticism, by god criticism is what I am going to offer.

You presented a classic example of someone determined to tell us that if Zahawiri says it, we must take it at face value, and then, of course, must do the opposite. If he says American withdrawal means defeat, well then, defeat it must mean, so we mustn't leave.]

I explained why this was nonsense.
No personal attack at all.

America tells Islamists: every time your behaviour improves, we'll give you more (seats), until you become secularists with only a false affiliation to Islam.
-- Al Qaeda #2 Ayman al-Zawahri

Zawahri's take on this is right on. Sitting at their blinking and flashing World Control Panel, our pea-brained President and Secretary of State are blinking with growing confusion and impatience at what's really happening there.

Yup, the dynamic duo of George & Condi are mixed up. They fail to realize how the presence of Islam for only a generation or two, much less nearly 1,400 years as in Mesopotamia, leaves the natives mere husks of human beings, with a place only for kernels of hate and submission, and no room for individualism and crativity.

ALWAYS ANGRY ALWAYS AGGRIEVED ALWAYS BITTER ALWAYS FUMING ALWAYS

In other words, a stiff dose of the Islam in a region robs its inhabitants of their humanity and, thereby, human potential.

One more thing. You write: "I hope I'm allowed to question the theory that the Iraqi's [sic] are better off without the troops..."

What theory is that? Who said anything about caring about whether or not the Iraqis are "better off" without the troops? That has nothing to do with my reasons for wanting to remove the American presence. I'm indifferent to whether or not the Iraqis feel, or are, "better off" as a result. I care about the imperiled world of Infidels, a world made more unpleasant, expensive, and dangerous for the indigenous Infidels pari passu with the growth in the Muslim populations within the Infidel countries. I want to stop Da'wa and reverse the demographic changes. I think it is both necessary, and justifiable as a perfectly rational act of civilizational self-defense.

As it happens, the best thing that happened to the Turks was the systematic attempt to contain Islam's power in the social and political spheres, by Ataturk, an attempt that succeeded for a while, but is being challenged and unravelled wherever possible by Erdogan and his crew. If one cared about the real, as opposed to the false, well-being (moral, intellectual, economic, political) of people in Muslim countries, what is the one thing one would wish them? Less Islam, or preferably, no Islam at all. That's what would improve the political system, the economic performance, the intellectual life, the moral atmosphere. That, and nothing else. So I turn out, despite my attempts to pretend to be stonily hard-hearted, a very nice samaritan after all, who does care about the people in Iraq, and everywhere else. Because I don't wish them "democracy" of the kind we think we have transplanted. I wish them something much more profound. I wish them mental freedom, and artistic expression, and the enterprise of science. I wish them to liberated from all the rules whose sum is the Total Regulation of Life that Islam offers, that Islam insists upon.

And how do I propose to achieve this? By promoting a policy of removing the American presence, and allowing the situation within Iraq to so develop that it will help to discredit, and thereby weaken, Islam everywhere. And since Iraq is part of that everywhere, things will get better, as a result, even for the people in Iraq. Not because of the Americans doing a thing -- or rather, doing nothing beyond removing the despot who through force and mass-murder held the country together. But by doing as little as possible. By holding back. By restraining the insensate desire to meddle, and in meddling, to ignore the real problem and address, or redress, a largely false one.

I turn out to be a do-gooder. Can't help myself.

Hugh,
Actually, Murtha's recent comments are what set me off. If you can't see how comments like his harm the troops, then I don't know what to say.
I have long been of the opinion that leaving Iraq too soon (like Bush Sr.) will lead to civil war and perhaps even Iraq War III. You can search my previous posts to confirm this. We left troops in Germany, Japan and S Korea with positive long term results. Vacating Vietnam and Iraq had less successful results in my opinion.

Hitler was saying pretty much the same delusional drivel in his bunker right up until the point where he bit a cyanide capsule and then put a bullet through his looney skull. (A thorough fellow. I like that, and hope Z. emulates his spiritual predecessor. Soon.)

P.S. -

Is that the sound of the cameraman supressing a chuckle of incredulous disbelief, in the backround of the video, that I detect? (Or maybe it's just Osama's portable dialysis machine backing up?)

Tech Talk-

I wish FOX or some other outlet would add some music to these videos.
"Pop Goes The Weasel", on a steam calliope, would be nice.

"leaving Iraq too soon (like Bush Sr.) will lead to civil war and perhaps even Iraq War III."
-- from a posting above

If it "will lead to civil war" what's wrong with that?

And what does "Iraq War III" mean? If it means a larger civil war, with Iranians helping the Shi'a whether the Shi'a want it or not, and the Saudis helping the Sunnis, is this something to deplore? Why?

I wish FOX or some other outlet would add some music to these videos.
"Pop Goes The Weasel", on a steam calliope, would be nice.

*LMAO* I can picture that all too vividly.

Failing that, there's always ragtime piano. Or, a couple of hecklers (and their silhouettes at the bottom of the screen) a la Mystery Science Theater 3000.

I watched zawahiri's primitive appearance on TV and I have to agree to a great extent that there is a great amount of defeat sufeered by the US and what they represent in Iraq.
The US has been defeated in trying to stem the tide of Muslims worldwide running like lemmings back towards the origins and integrity of their "pristine religion of islam".

Muslims worldwide are well on their way towards greater imbecility. Saudi money is only part of the reason. There is an essetial faculty of human reason, discernment and ability of making free choices that Islam kills in all humans under it.

"what is the one thing one would wish them? Less Islam, or preferably, no Islam at all. That's what would improve the political system, the economic performance, the intellectual life, the moral atmosphere. That, and nothing else."

quoted above posting

This says it all, well put Hugh.

Hugh said "I care about the imperiled world of Infidels..."

Amen, Hallelujah. Another wildly off-track comments section is brought back on track.

Who cares what Zawahri says? If our intelligence services are studying his rantings for anything other than clues as to his whereabouts, then we're in worse shape than I thought. To base our policy decisions on the analysis of a mad man would be more insane than he is.

On another note, the article says "...[Egyptian] candidates linked to the Muslim Brotherhood increased their seats more than five-fold to 88 of the 444 elected seats..."

The Iraqi "Light Unto the Muslim Nations" democracy project is not exactly having the expected effect on Iraq's neighbors. Time to stop worrying about saving the Muslim nations from themselves, and time to start worrying about saving the Americans/Brits/Aussies from the war that is already underway.

Nonsense. The USA is not defeated in Iraq. It is defeated in the halls of Congress and the editorial offices of the NYSlimes and Washington Compost.

Hugh,

If it "will lead to civil war" what's wrong with that?

Ask the Kurds.
Admittedly, a civil war would keep Jihadi's busy and away from the west, but I get the feeling the worst elements would eventually win out and leave us with a leadership worse than Saddam. I guess either way is a gamble at best. Besides, Iraq and Afghanistan make nice launching points into Iran.

And what does "Iraq War III" mean?

The Gulf War is I, the current war II. Iraq War III would be the US and coalition returning a third time because Iraq becomes so destablized.

Zawahiri sez:"America tells Islamists: every time your behaviour improves, we'll give you more (seats), until you become secularists with only a false affiliation to Islam."

Hmm, he must be reading my posts about the Pragmatic Project and my links to behaviorist psychology...
Obviously they fear this, it's a never-ending theme, going way back.

"Iraq and Afghanistan make nice launching points [sic] into Iran."

"US and coalition returning a third time because Iraq becomes so destablized."
-- from a posting above

No, Iraq, full of local Muslims, both Sunnis and Shi'a, hostile to the Americans, and supplemented by Sunnis from outside of the Zarqawi line, and outside Shi'a, Iranian agents, who would retaliate, and urge the local Shi'a to retaliate, against the American troops should American bombers and missiles do damage to the Iranian nuclear project, defeinitely would not be a "nice launching point" [sic]into Iran." This is easy talk. It means nothing. And the same goes for Afghanistan -- where are those bases, suitable for the kind of launching? And how many American troops are there? And just how easy is it to move from Afghanistan into Iran, and not merely into Iran, but to the area where all the nuclear weapons development is taking place. Easy to airily say "Iraq and Afghanistan" are "nice launching points" -- idle chatter, that ignores distances, difficulties, threats nearby, and every other reality that must be considered.

As for the second statement, that American troops would have to return to Iraq were it to be "destabilized" -- what do you mean? What do you mean by this word "destabilized"? "Destabilized" from what condition? The American invasion "destabilized" Iraq, and a good thing too. Destabilizing Iran would also be a good thing. Keeping them both in a permanent condition of destabilization, their governments at a loss as to how to control things, perhaps an Iraq that dissolves into the three vilayets of which it was originally composed, or at least always on the verge of such threatened decomposition, would be a good thing. In Iran, constant threats of local rebellions, Arabs in Khuzistan, and Baluchis wherever the Baluchis live, and Azeris possibly becoming more interested in being part of a much saner, because less Islamic, Azerbaijan, so that the Islamic Republic of Iran has a full-time problem on its hands -- the problem of keeping the 50% of the population that is not Persian from remaining tied to the Islamic Republic of Iran -- more destabilization.

And what if the Shi'a in the oil-producing eastern province of al-Hasa (Dhahran, Dammam, etc.) were to be even more restless, and more resentful of the o'erweening Wahhabis? Destabilization, yet again.

A problem for you? A problem we should worry about, or a problem for the Muslims, and something we should look upon with favor.

Mere invoking of a scare-word swuch as "destabilization" in the hopes that others will simply roll over and play dead at its being produced, won't work.

Tell us exactly what you would define as the kind of "destabilization" that would require an American re-entry into Iraq, what you call Iraq War III. If they have no major weaponry, and if Muslims are kept out, and their numbers reduced, in the Infidel lands, and every effort is made to diminish reliance on, and use of, oil, then what else need we do?

Who cares about "destabilization"? Are you unhappy with how Somalia is today, deeply "destabilized" Somalia, virtually without a functioning government? As long as Somalis are kept from moving to Infidel lands, why do you care?

Explain. In detail. Take all the time, and all the space, you need. Right here.

Enough of this waving about of the scare-word "destabilization." Give us details.

...and Murtha, and Ted Kennedy, and Howard Dean. I wish the DNC would take a good hard look at who agrees with them. Posted by: kevin

You mean like Pat Robertson and Ahmadinejad agreeing that Sharon's stroke is an act of a vengeful god?

Were Zawahri's comments scripted by "Baghdad Bob"?

Nariz;
I condemn Pat Robertson's comment.

Hugh,
I detect a pattern of playing "gotcha" with specific words. Fair enough I suppose, you're a writer and I'm not, but I like the challenge.
"Launching" does imply missiles, but missiles would probably be launched from sea. However, an invasion (or the threat of invasion) of troops into Iran is much more plausable from Iraq and Afghanistan. Bringing the military into Iraq from the US was a costly and time consuming process. Iran has bcome top priority.

On to the second word, "destabilization".
I would consider iraq destabilized if it returned to it's Bathist ways, geneocide of the Kurds, torturing soccer players, funding of suicide bombers, attempting a nuclear or WMD program. There are a number of other human rights abuses that could take place, a wild card that shouldn't be played.

I'm asked;
Who cares about "destabilization"? Are you unhappy with how Somalia is today, deeply "destabilized" Somalia, virtually without a functioning government? As long as Somalis are kept from moving to Infidel lands, why do you care?

First of all, I don't see Saddam as a stable leader, he should've been removed after the Gulf War for invading Kuwait. I am not aware of Somalia's ills, or the need of a military strike to remove a Stalinist dictator. As you said, there is no government to be removed there.
Lastly, I would like to retract the "personal attack" acusation, I've enjoyed our little chat.

"Mission Accomplished"

The Iraq War was a success the day Saddam was
captured and his equally evil sons were killed.

Notice that the Arabs did not protest too much
with the invasion as the sole purpose was
Regime Change, hence mission accomplished. Everyone wanted Saddam gone even though the Arabs could not state so publically.

If you look at Saddam's writings and statements, his dream was to unite and rule the Middle East which would have had disatrous consequences for the whole world.

"Everyone wanted Saddam gone even though the Arabs could not state so publically."
-- from a posting above

The governments of Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, and the sheikdoms of the Persian Gulf may have wanted Saddam Hussein's regime to end, but there was no moral revulsion about it, and what opposition there was was not felt by the Arab masses, who regarded Saddam Hussein as a great anti-Israel, anti-American, anti-Infidel hero, a leader of the Arabs unlike the corrupt Mubarak and the much richer, and much more corrupt, ruling families of the oil states. It is not true that "everyone [among the Arabs] wanted Saddam gone." Only those threatened by him -- that is, the rulers of particular countries. Arabs who saw him as a champion of The Arabs were not disturbed by his pretensions. They liked it. It was all like Nasser, but even nastier.

And neither the Sunni Arab rulers nor the Sunni Arab ruled dropped a single tear either for the Kurds or for the Shi'a, both the objects of massacres by Saddam Hussein.

The chief benefiaries of Saddam Hussein's removal were, outside of Iraq, the Islamic Republic of Iran and Saudi Arabia. The rulers in both countries were pleased; at the moment the former still are, and the latter quite worried --worried because they didn't expect that the Shi'a would be allowed to inherit Iraq, and for them, this is worrisome.