Jan Peter Balkenende will go down in history as a Neville Chamberlain who chose to appease thugs rather than to resist them; Ayaan Hirsi Ali will go down in history as a heroic figure who tried to stem Europe's headlong rush to suicide. "Dutch PM has 'no use' for Hirsi Ali's cartoon views," from Expatica, with thanks to all who sent this in:
AMSTERDAM — Dutch Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende said on Friday he did not think much of the contribution of outspoken MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali to the debate about the Danish cartoons of the Prophet Mohammed.Speaking in Berlin on Thursday, Hirsi Ali said she wished Balkenende had as much courage as Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen. Hirsi Ali said publishing the cartoons is a matter of freedom of expression.
Rasmussen has consistently refused to apologise to Muslims on behalf of the Danish newspaper that first printed the 12 caricatures of the Prophet Mohammed. He contends his government has no control over the free press.
The Dutch media asked Balkenende during his weekly press conference on Friday about Hirsi Ali's comments. He was initially reluctant to talk about the issue. When pressed, he said "I wonder whether this will help the debate in the Netherlands."
The Prime Minister also said "we don't have much use" for Hirsi Ali's contribution....
Balkenende said he supported freedom of speech and totally rejected the use of violence by some opponents of the cartoons.
Mmmm hmmm.
Well, one cannot really criticize Balkenende for replying the way he did, after all Hirsi Ali basically called him a coward. What was he supposed to say, that "She is completely right, I too wish I had the courage of Rasmussen!"? Obviously not. He did what all politicians do when something unconfortable happens when they are off-guard: they ignore it and hope it will go away.
Hirsi Ali is a good woman and one that often says what needed to be said, but unfortunately in the world of diplomacy one has to learn to when to keep one's mouth under control. In this case, I doubt that insulting the Dutch PM helped her or her cause.
Jan Peter Balkenende has chosen to be a dhimmi. Since dhimmis deserve no respect. Holland needs new leaders who are not dhimmis. Balkenende is like an ostrict with its head stuck in the sand. The Islam problem will not go away, it must be confronted and cut out like the cancer it is.
I wonder if an immigrant can be PM in the Netherlands...
Quijybo
Typical Balkenende. After the murder of the late Theo van Gogh it was not the parents of victim that he visited, it was not the cowed and shocked Dutch he visited, it was the Muslim community to whom he pledged solidarity in "these trying times". I don't think Theo's parents, quiet and dignified people though they are, have ever really forgiven that. He's an impopular man, cold and indifferent. He only got elected in the wake of the murder of Pim Fortuyn. He is currently very, very low in the polls.
I didn't expect hw would shape up this time either. Ayaan Hirsi Ali however has also experienced difficulties within her own party (VVD). We'll have to see how this episode shapes up. The party leader Van Aartsen seemed taken by surprise when asked about her Berlin statements, so it might well be a case of more petulance towards her in a couple of days. She already had to leave her original party of choice, the Dutch Labour Party (PvdA).
It is not unthinkable that Balkenende might see this as an opportunity to give his religion a leg-up. He's always droning on about values and norms, while carefully ignoring pressing issues of serious crime for example. One of the many paradoxical aspects of the Netherlands is the role of religion in politics and the media. This is called 'verzuiling' in Dutch, a word that translates to columns. It describes the fact that the Netherlands is composed of little groups not primarily based on class but often on faith, which enables the Dutch media to hypocritically snipe at the British as a class-ridden society and the Americans as religious obsessives. Behind the tourist facade of Amsterdam and the tulip fields, a deeply conservative nation peers from behind the curtains. They even have a bible belt. Some folk refused polio jabs for their children in the sixties on the grounds of religious conscience.
That explains of course why a country that was liberated by warriors is never tired of lecturing the anglosphere that peace is achieved through discussion and compromise. Balkenende is of course himself highly religious, and is a member of the CDA (Christian Democratic Appel - a fusion of a whole range of Dutch Christian political parties, although the catholics have pretty much been sidelined in recent years). There are also two other small parties, the Christian Union and the SGP. The latter does not admit women members, quite an achievement for a modern democracy. But they tolerate it anyway.
As for the media, six broadcasters on public television are faith based (not accounting for the Jewish, Muslim, Hindu and Humanist broadcasters). They account for a good (or bad) 50% of broadcast hours over three channels. Is that religious, or is that religious?
One thing that is important to realize is the fact that discussions about the way in which the Dutch police pro-actively rounded up Jews for deportation to the death-camps are invariably held in Dutch and not English. Lost in translation indeed Well ,it would be bad for the tourism industry. And Anna Frank puts a touching shine on the Dutch character thatis in reality sadly lacking.
Expect nothing from Balkenende but compromise. In my opinion Ayaan Hirsi Ali should have gone to the States. She would have been better off there.
Sorry for the length of this, just wanted to sketch some background.
"On thursday Conservative MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali attacked Prime Minister Jan Peter Balkenende, saying she wished he had as much courage as Danish Prime Minister Anders Fogh Rasmussen. In a reaction, the Dutch prime minister today said such statements would not help to calm the conflict".
I think Ayaan was diplomatic enough with PM Balkenende. She is one of the few shining lights that is brave enough to defend the rights of freedom of expression in the Netherlands.
Having been brought up and experienced the tyranny that pervades fundamental Islam, she can speak with great personal authority in my opinion.
BRAVO! to Ayaan Hirsi; and never change the resolves of your true, and tested convictions.
Liam, thanks for that post, giving us some background to the story.
As for politicians who act like dhimmis, they should be voted out of office, and criticized heavily while they're in office. Their soft-and-slow-treason cannot be allowed to continue.
Ayaan Hirsi must live with fear for her life 24 hours a day - I think she is amazingly soft spoken re. Balkenende.
Cruzado,
Hirsi Ali's cause is not just her own. It's ours too, and this is no time to be silent. She merely stated a fact, that the emperor has no clothes on. While it is not a popular sentiment, it is true. And many times the truth hurts. If Balkenende is pulling a Neville Chamberlain, then it is important to speak out and learn from history, not repeat it.
In a war we can't be overly concerned about the normal niceties like good manners and watching what one says. If Hirsi Ali can shame the prime minister into doing the job he was elected to do, that he has a solemn obligation to do, then we need to support her in this, not criticise her for it.
Since Hirsi Ali is an apostate to Islam and should be killed according to Muslim Law, shouldn't she be handed over to a Shariah Court and made an example of Holland's tolerance of Islam?
(And save Balkenende any further embarassment.)
This would surely satify Muslim "honor"?
Then we could get back to letting them invade Europe in peace.
cruzado
Yo're confusing matters here. Hirsi Ali is not a "diplomat." She's a prophet in the Old Testament sense. Would you criticize Jeremiah or Daniel for not being "diplomatic"? Their mission was telling the truth, shouting it, at whatever cost to themselves. The real "speaking truth to power," not the fake, 60s one, when speaking the truth earned you a slap on the wrist from "power," the adulation of college kids and a lucrative movie career.
'Nuff said. I'm getting mad.
RENAME DUTCH TV, de Nederlandse Dawa TV!
Liam,
I am not Dutch nor do I live in Holland. However, in the last 8 months I have been there twice. I also have Dutch friends who have turned from liberal (no, they still are) to absolute Islam haters. Admittedly, I stayed there very briefly each time, and spent little time watching TV, but I can relate to others what I saw on TV there. Out of the approximately 18 channels I saw on television, one channel ALWAYS had some sort of "Islamic virtues/history/food/culture" on it. Dawa! I saw none of the OTHER religious based programming that you mentioned, at least not in Amsterdam. There was a program in English about the WWII/Nazi/Jewish story, but that is about as close as it came.
At least one other channel almost all day long would have some sort of symposium of "dialogue" (my favorite) between Moslem young people, Moslem women, or "Islamic community elders" discussing the "great divide" in cultures and how to improve the situation. Other topics discussed included endless mindless (and tired) rants about Hijabs pros and cons, eating "Hallal", women in Islam: oppressed or free, Dutch "racism and discrimination", and the Dutch "misunderstanding" Islam. Hirsi was also widely denounced as grossly distorting Islam's peaceful nature and preventing further "dialogue".
Thus, out of the few channels available, two had Islamic based themes! While I do not speak Dutch, I understand enough to easily understand the topics of discussion.
Europe is full of Balkenendes:
Look at the despicable Jack "Chamberline" Straw and this equally disgraceful Zapatero of Spain! Look at the nobodies of Belgium or the cretins who 'rule' France, the grimacing Chirac and the preposterous D. d. Villepin! None of them worth a bullet...
Europe, thy name is 'appeasement'...
Yours is a painful awakening!
Liam, Kafir
Good points. They reminded me of the Netherlands beyond Amsterdam and the other big cities I saw years ago, particularly Friesland, a world stuck in the past, like the Amish in the U.S. Everywhere I went, there was this feeling of "Rememeber Judgment Day!" No frolicking in taverns, no dances on the pastures. Suspicious eyes watching your every move, like the ones you get in rural Eastern Europe.
These days my civil-servant Dutch friend is telling me, a la Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along? Get along?"
Isabella wrote
"Hirsi Ali's cause is not just her own. It's ours too, and this is no time to be silent. She merely stated a fact, that the emperor has no clothes on."
Yes, her cause is obviously ours - that much goes without saying. My whole point was that in the world of diplomacy, it is less useful to throw a "You're naked, stupid!" than a "Have you noticed that it is rather cold? I wonder why...". In other words, to learn how to imply or to say things without actually saying them, specially without being uncomfortable.
Ovidius wrote
"Yo're confusing matters here. Hirsi Ali is not a "diplomat." She's a prophet in the Old Testament sense."
I don't believe in prophets of any kind, not after reading Pepe Rodriguez. I do concur that she is no diplomat, but after reading Liam's post, maybe her comments regarding Balkenende were well deserved after all.
Ask yourself this question: Was Mohammed a nose-picker?
More UK dhimmitude in action , at the London cartoon protests today
http://islamophobic.blogspot.com/2006/02/jeremy-corbyn-enemy-of-free-speech.html
quote:
"We demand that people show respect for each other's community, each other's faith and each other's religion."
we DEMAND.
here's the dhimmi in question:
http://www.jeremycorbyn.co.uk/
on the radio - muslim at london protest today says
"A muslim loves and respects Mohammed more than her parents, siblings, brothers and sisters"
what is the one of the primary signs in somebody that they have joined a cult?
i think the quote above tells me just that.
Cruzado,
I understand your point. But do we have time for that?
The other thing is, that while it was definitely rude to show the cartoons, I now see it was a vital turning point in the war on informational dissemination and caused a reaction that showed what it is we are all up in arms about.
I also remember how FDR, Churchill and Stalin all "negotiated" away the lives of millions of Eastern Europeans in the name of peace at Yalta after WWII. No skin off their noses but their victims sure weren't appreciative. If we can stop that from happening again, I'm for it.
It must be embarrasing for the prime minister to be scolded in public by a little ole' girl. But she does have buckets more courage than he does. And she's lived under what Balkenende seeks to appease.
Jesus said about the lukewarm, (appeasers,) "I will vomit them out of my mouth." I think Hirsi Ali was just feeling sick to her stomach last Thursday. Once she expelled the truth she probably felt a whole lot better.
When one asks what Balkenende is smoking, there are many, many options in Amsterdam. :)
My great-grandparents left the Netherlands roughly a century ago, due to the lack of opportunities. Good move: Nowadays, any "opportunity" for citizens who remain comes with paying taxes out the yin-yang to support a segment of the population that wants to dominate and destroy them.
I read a statistic in the late '90s that said one third of the population of the Netherlands supports the other two thirds. I wonder where the numbers stand now.
It seems there is no "ideology" to speak of among politicians like Balkenende, except for the errant assumption that if you keep giving people what they want (and insist they "need")-- both materially and politically-- they'll eventually be placid and content.
There's nothing like taking a principled stand to run the risk of offending somebody-- something Balkenende is evidently terrified to do, but thankfully, Hirsi Ali isn't.
Slightly OT - heard on BBC Radio 4 - a very sensible reader suggested that BBC should stop referring to Mo as the prophet Muhammad and demanded that he should be called the islamic prophet Muhammad. Why does not BBC refer to Christ as Our Lord Jesus? - he argued.
Infidels are not as dhim as the media think!
Interesting post, Liam. It's enlightening to read something about Dutch sociopolitics from an inside perspective.
"Behind the tourist facade of Amsterdam and the tulip fields, a deeply conservative nation peers from behind the curtains. They even have a bible belt."
I've heard this before, about the strongly "Calvinistic" culture under the surface of the freewheeling hippie freedom that is the stereotype of Holland. However, as you will agree, isn't it revealing that this conservative population has never (or rarely?) used violence and intolerance based implicitly on threats of violence to resist and protest the freer aspects of Dutch culture? (Indeed, Pim Fortuyn was murdered by a Leftist veggie animal rights nut whose culture emanates more from the 60s than from any religious conservativism.)
The Dutch "bible belt" has never produced Calvinists strapping on suicide-belts (let alone the disparately pullulating quantity of cultural terrorists which Islam has generated).
"Islam does not mean peace"
by Daniel Pipes
http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/518
One would think by now that the "Islam = peace" nonsense would not need correcting, but I keep encountering it – just yesterday asserted by a hostile questioner at a talk I gave at Ashland University, today in an oped. So, for the record:
Most Arabic words are based on a trilateral root system, such as k-t-b or s-l-m. The words formed from these roots often have a connection to one another (kataba is to write, kitāb is a book, maktaba is a library, and so on), but not always (a katība is a squadron of soldiers). In other words, roots have a core meaning but also include unrelated words.
In the case of s-l-m, salām means peace and salāma means safety. But the root also has many meanings unconnected to this core, such as salam (a variety of acacia) sullam (ladder), sulāmā (digital bone in the hand or foot), sulaymāni (mercury chloride), aslama (to betray) … and islām (submission).
There is no connection in meaning between salām and islām, peace and submission. These are two distinct words with unrelated meetings. In brief, "Islam = submission."
****Jan Peter Balkenende will go down in history as a Neville Chamberlain****
That is if there were to be any history. Eurabia will have no history in the future. As enslaved Dimmhis they will be reading only the Koran and the commentaries. Islam doesn't write books. They just copy and recopy the old religious texts.
my two sisters with some friends will be traveling to Europe in a few weeks, actually GB and Netherlands. l hope they can tell me the more of the talk among regualar people, well not regular,but most of them dog people. they have no love of muslims, and would be interesting to hear what they have to say. for the most part this crowd have a great hobby, busy working and rasing their kids and their pets. and not much into politics,but when ever l get to a show even in europe l find a way to bring talk to politics..like the animal rights are really screwing around with dog people. anyhow europeans are dhimmi, have allowd so many controls over their hobby, many have quit breeding and showing /working certain breeds. so l am really intersted in seeing how will they fight or bend over this muslim rant.
"Slightly OT - heard on BBC Radio 4 - a very sensible reader suggested that BBC should stop referring to Mo as the prophet Muhammad and demanded that he should be called the Islamic prophet Muhammad. Why does not BBC refer to Christ as Our Lord Jesus? - he argued."
-Infideless
You hit the nail right on the head. What the devil is the BBC (or any other agency) doing calling him “prophet” Mohammed? Since I do not believe Christ was divine, I would be furious if Jesus were referred in NEWSMAGAZINES, like say, The Economist, as “our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ". They are acquiescing to Mohammed's prophet status. Have they gone mad??
To Kafir Nonbeliever
Since Mohammed is the most common name in the muslim world and since many "infamous" terrorists like mohammed atta have carried the name, there might be a point in including the "prophet" tag. However I agree that it would be more objective if they added "islamic" to the presentation. Perhaps it would be even more neutral if they called him the author, warrior and self-styled prophet Mohammed.
By the way I believe that there is an urgent need for an historically accurate movie about the author and warrior and self-styled prophet mohammed. The only realistic medium is probably an animated movie with anonymous cartoonists, an ad hoc production studio and anonoymous financial backers.
moz-art, we cab extend the title to:
the pedophile, the rapist, the murderer, the gangster Islamic prophet Muhammad. How about this as a compromise? Would this description distinguish him honourably enough?
About the demo in London today:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4700482.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4697086.stm
"Among them was Hanifa Brka, a 29-year-old student from Birmingham, who said: "This is the
heart of our faith - we believe it is wrong to talk badly about the prophet."
Why,why,why Hanifa? Surely a pedophile,a rapist,a murderer,a robber cannot be talked badly about.
"Ken Livingstone said: "Unlike some of the BBC's coverage, it will allow the views of the
mainstream Muslim community to be properly heard."
I suggest we grant Red Ken the dhimmi of the world title which cannot be taken away from him
until he dies! Well George Galloway might compete, but psychiatric cases should be excluded from running.
"The rally, 'United against Incitement and Islamophobia', has been organised by the Muslim
Council of Britain, the Muslim Association of Britain and a number of Christian organisations."
Dear God! Which ones were they??? I am asking just in case I inadverently support one!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/4704396.stm
Yes, dear!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/4704396.stm
Just like we can see in the picture showing women's lib!
If anybody wondered why the police could not provide protection to the journalist from The
Liberal when they shyly considered flicking the cartoons on their web site.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/4704396.stm
Quo vadis Europa?
I cannot blame the Brits for their dhimmitude - the Polish goverment (please any associations with Jan III Sobieski are coincidental)swiftly apologised for "Rzeczpospolita" printing 2 of the cartoons. Sobieski, Zolkiewski are turning in their graves!
What's the picture in the background's gallery? The Battle of Lepanto?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/4704396.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4705342.stm
"One can only hope the extremist element can be marginalised and we can move on."
Move on? Over my dead body!
Here is a selection of Have Your Say comments that have earned my praise:
http://newsforums.bbc.co.uk/nol/thread.jspa?sortBy=2&threadID=1077&edition=1&ttl=20060211195
806&#paginator
Added: Saturday, 11 February, 2006, 12:43 GMT 12:43 UK
Ive heard the guy leading todays protests saying he wants an official apology from denmark
and laws to prevent this in the future. I would be the first out on the streets if either
happened, we do not live under Islamic law and we have a perfect right to rip anyones
religion to pieces if we wish.
Jean Bertrand, Tooting
Recommended by 117 people
Added: Saturday, 11 February, 2006, 11:22 GMT 11:22 UK
Islamaphobia? I thought the rally was about cartoons. Could it be the word Islamaphobia will
so frighten our Government they will bend even further over backwards to fascilitate the
Muslim community? I'd be more inclined to sympathise had these same marchers been out on the
streets after 7/7 proclaiming "not in my name".
Marilyn Kendall, Plymouth, United Kingdom
Recommended by 110 people
Added: Saturday, 11 February, 2006, 12:57 GMT 12:57 UK
This is a march that is protesting against one of the most fundamental rights we enjoy in
this country - freedom of speech. So what if muslims are 'hurt' by these cartoons? As a
Christian, I too am 'hurt' by the proliferation of the Koran which denies my and every other
Christian's beliefs.
Dave, Cardiff
Recommended by 106 people
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Added: Saturday, 11 February, 2006, 14:08 GMT 14:08 UK
The protest will further alienate non-Muslims. I believe that there is a rising tide of
resentment towards Islam in the UK, and I fear that unless it is addressed, people like the
BNP will take advantage. Of course Muslims have a right to peaceful protest, but it
perpetuates the image of Muslims as a paranoid minority obsessed with perceived insults. If
Muslims want to be accepted, they should hold a rally celebrating Britain, multiculturalism,
women's rights and religious freedom.
Greg Starkowzki, London, United Kingdom
Recommended by 50 people
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Added: Saturday, 11 February, 2006, 17:51 GMT 17:51 UK
A series of speakers gathered to support the Muslim community, including MP Jeremy Corbyn.
In his speech, which was met with cheers from the crowd, he said:
"We demand that people show respect for each other's community, each other's faith and each
other's religion."
Anyone who DEMANDS respect will not get it from me.
Clive, Darlington
Recommended by 39 people
Added: Saturday, 11 February, 2006, 13:04 GMT 13:04 UK
Staging a peaceful demonstration to protest a policy or concept is a right of any citizen in
any free country, and I understand and support this rally wholeheartedly. It will not,
however, change anyone's mind about publishing satirical cartoons of religious figures. I
trust the protestors understand this, too.
E Mily, NYC, United States
Recommended by 30 people
Added: Saturday, 11 February, 2006, 19:03 GMT 19:03 UK
I would like to see the cartoon published in Brit newspapers.Free speach and Freedom is what
my father WWII and Korea 1951 my great grandfather {Died 1915} his name is on Le Tourett
memorial,Fought for.Dont let it be taken away through the back doar.
Harry, Dundee
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"Europe is full of Balkenendes:
Look at the despicable Jack "Chamberline" Straw and this equally disgraceful Zapatero of Spain! Look at the nobodies of Belgium or the cretins who 'rule' France, the grimacing Chirac and the preposterous D. d. Villepin! None of them worth a bullet...
Europe, thy name is 'appeasement'...
Yours is a painful awakening!
Posted by: sheik yer'mami [TypeKey Profile Page] at February 11, 2006 12:08 PM
"
Well, though the main intonation in your statement is primarily right, I'll permit myself to apply some minor corrections to it.
First of all, some Belgian and French newspapers published the alledgedly "incriminating" cartoons, unlike US or UK newspapers who were too dhimmi to publish not even one of them. In Paris there has been an "écharpe bleu" manifestation last month showing alerted civilians are aware of the muslim invasion. In Belgium a most contested party "Vlaams Belang" is struggling to keep people aware of the jihad danger, and it is being expected to gain at least 30% of the Flemish voters in the equipartionioned Belgium consisting of french speaking Walloons and of Dutch speaking Flemish.
Instead of creating a dissidence between Belgian, French and other European people fighting the mulim Califath, it could be a more didactic excercise to help us out of logistical problems. For instance, most anti-jihad websites are being harrassed and defaced by jihadists, with the help of dhimmi western technology. Why doesn't there exist a way of hosting (DNS and Physical hosting) websites which are out of reach of quasi-legal hackers?
kuffar-
The ISP's have to be better 'hosts'.
And more infidels need to get into tech arcana.
This site keeps chugging along, so email Mr. Spencer and see if his ISP can help spread some good clues abroad.
And I agree that while we feel the need to moan and curse at the failures of political fools, we also have to cheer on the New Resistance.
So, as they say in Maastricht (where little Muslim goofballs were burning Danish flags yesterday):
Sterkte hoor! (Hang in their pal!)
Vive La France!
And
Deutschland uber Allah!
kuffar:
I appreciate your post! So there's hope after all and it's not yet 'Eurabia', good!
Ali Sina from FFI has offered secure hosting a while ago. I urge you to contact him directly if you have trouble getting your stuff up and running...
Good luck!
Posted by: sheik yer'mami at February 11, 2006 11:27 PM
>I appreciate your post! So there's hope after all >and it's not yet 'Eurabia', good!
Thanks for your support. But I've the impression these days times are going to be a bit "rough" here.
As I remember from a decade ago, frequenting people in the country as well as people in the cities, those muslims were always regarded as brave, pious little prayers, but since a few (2-4) years people in the street start becoming aware there is a stric connection between juvenile deliquency and religion. There are tuns and tuns of police reports where elderly women were attacked by young musims treating them as 'whores of the west' and other insults.
The ongoing cartoon riot is just the tip of the iceberg of what the secret agenda of the muslim is: World Califath!
>Ali Sina from FFI has offered secure hosting a >while ago. I urge you to contact him directly if >you have trouble getting your stuff up and >running...
That is a very nice idea! I already read some of Mr. Sina's articles and I think he's brilliant. He is very reknown in European cicles.
If I was a "believer" I'd say he was 'heaven sent'. :-)
>Good luck!
Good point about Mo's being a 'prophet': did he prophesy anything right? Like that the Arabs are sitting on an ocean of liquid black gold?
Here's another "moderate" who obviously never read the Koran. Or he's just another lying Muslim.
Indonesian President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono called on Muslims to show forgiveness to those who had sincerely apologised, saying they should "emulate Prophet Muhammad's well-known qualities in dealing with adversity: composure, sound judgment, magnanimity and benevolence".
Of course, those aren't the "well-known qualities' the protesters are emulating are they .
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4703076.stm
"I understand your point. But do we have time for that?"
While the Titanic was sinking, the band played on. There is always time to do one's job properly, even if we sacrifice ourselves inthe process.
"The other thing is, that while it was definitely rude to show the cartoons, I now see it was a vital turning point in the war on informational dissemination and caused a reaction that showed what it is we are all up in arms about."
I absolutely agree. I don't even find the cartoons that offensive, to be honest. In my country - Portugal - we tell jokes about everything. A few years ago we had a terrible tragedy when a bridge collapsed when a bus was crossing. Dozens of people killed, and the week after the tragedy people were telling jokes about the incident. In a funeral, you will always find relatives of the deceased telling jokes to "break the ice". Probably not very tasteful, but that is the way we deal with the bad things in life.
The above is largely why I don't understand why anyone who keeps throwing stones (Muslims) can have the nerve to complain when some of them hit them in the face.
"It must be embarrasing for the prime minister to be scolded in public by a little ole' girl. But she does have buckets more courage than he does. And she's lived under what Balkenende seeks to appease."
Agreed.
"Jesus said about the lukewarm, (appeasers,) "I will vomit them out of my mouth." I think Hirsi Ali was just feeling sick to her stomach last Thursday. Once she expelled the truth she probably felt a whole lot better."
I can understand your point, but in the world of politics one needs to control one's tongue, which is largely why I didn't follow that career, I am too straight-forward.
"my two sisters with some friends will be traveling to Europe in a few weeks, actually GB and Netherlands. l hope they can tell me the more of the talk among regular people"
There aren't many "regular" looking people in Amsterdam. At least there weren't the last time I was there, which wasn't that long ago.
To meet an ordinary Dutchman (at least the way I had imagined them) one would need to go to the countryside, or at least to a small town.
I ended up in Arnhem. Not much to see (unless one is a WWII war nerd), but the people do look like... ordinary Dutch people.
To meet an ordinary Dutchman (at least the way I had imagined them) one would need to go to the countryside, or at least to a small town.
Cruzado, my sisters and some friends are going to a dog show north of Amsterdam, near the Danish border, so will be far from the big city! actually when l go to Europe, l stay out of big cities,just visit the museums, churchs, historical places, and go back to countryside to stay with friends.
Being a Dutchman myself, I feel increasingly embarrassed with the opinions and behaviour of certain Dutch politicians, reporters and scientists.
Our prime minister seems to have no clue whatsoever about the agressive aims and visions of the political Islam. The brutal political slaughter of Theo van Gogh, constant threats to a number of Islamcritics and ever groing boldness and arrogance of certain Dutch muslim leaderstowards non-muslims not once encouraged our pm to a tougher stand against islamic misbehaviour and undemocratic views in our country these last year.
We seem to have succumbed to 'dhimmitude' in large sections of our government and state organisations. Especially on the left, Dutch have become victims of an all-absorbing anti-US behaviour.
You might have followed the debate about Dutch troops going to Uruzgan/Afghanistan. Again a disgraceful manifestion of political survival, blatant anti-US-disgust and sheer cowardness.
Our airborne troops will be sent on this mission, thank god for that.
This example is used to illustrate the attitude of a Dutch country that has mainly lost its spirit and will to fight islamic terrorism worldwide. There is honestly a large support for the view of letting the US fight 'Al-Queda'and the Taliban alone. The [i]US special forces[/i]from OEF are repeatedly being presented as guntoting macho's who cause major 'collateral dommage'in their raids and missions throughout Afghanistan.
Having seen documentaries about US special forces in Afghanistan on Discovery Channel, I know otherwise, but still the 'Bush-bashing'is very much common practice in the Netherlands.
In my view, the same 'soft'approach to terrorism explains the lukewarm reaction of our prime minister to the obvious threats of the freedom of speech in Denmark. Many Dutch, including our highest politician simply have lost the abilitiy to confront muslimopponents of our fundamental rights and principles in an principled and confrontational discussion if necessary.
My country needs immigrants like Ayaan Hirsi Ali and others to remind us of the attacks on our democratic values and principles by the radical Islam.