Fitzgerald: Undoing slavery in Islam

How interesting that the newly published "black book of slavery" only mentions Europes slavetrade... The 'arabs as victims' dicsourse has hopefully come to and end! For me and many danes it has anyway...

The inevitable conclusion is that to undo slavery in Islam will require undoing Islam itself.

(Add to slavery pedophilia, polygamy, genocide, mutilation, Arab racist supremacism, FGM, etc. etc. ad nauseam.)

Ignorant atheist, another blind spot in 'black history' books is African slavery. Africans not only sold slaves to the Arabs and later to the Europeans, but also kept slaves themselves.
Slavery existed in every culture from very old age. The Dutch word 'lijfeigene' (serf, bondman) is by far not the only that reminds us of those days.

It would be interesting to see reprints of slave ads from current arab newspapers. The original arabic would be most compelling; we can find someone to translate it.

Education of history is so low now in our countries, worse in fact in the US. l had once discussed the history of slave trade, and to the amazement of a friend from Mich. that Black Africans sold slaves to both Arabs and later to Europeans. She was amazed and asked where did l learn this? l told her my high school! that was not that long ago, but l know with the PC culture it is mostly likely not mentioned in history class! That is why l dispise the left so much, they continue to bash our culture without realizing it is worse now in other cultures, ie discrimination. Westerners bend over backwards to say l am sorry, well the Arab muslim try to make themselves the pathetic poor downgraded victims they claim to be!

Slavery is yet another spoke in the wheel of the needed reform that wont happen. Change Islam one iota and you no longer have Islam. A perfect God, a perfect Prophet, perfect books with the perfect Allahs, perfect words in them. You cant step down from perfection and still be perfect.
Change anything and you have admitted imperfection. Slavery, jihad and all the other objectionable parts of Islam, cant be altered because Allah and his owner Mohammad, called for them. We are stuck with these three realities...#1. Islam cant be reformed. #2. There are no moderate muslims. #3. Jihad, slavery, and other Islamic business, will continue as usual, untill stopped by outside forces, who dont see Islam as 'quite that perfect...'

Lulu,
I think you make a great point. The Left has routinely denigrated the acomplishments of the West and played up it's failings. Most Leftys (liberals) I know are so pathetically ignorant about history it's almost useless to talk to them at any intellectual level.

Lately, I've taken to simply not discussing anything with Liberals. I get so frustrated at their ignorance it's hard to keep my cool. It's become impossible for me to pretend to listen respectfully to whatever ignorant idiocy they're spewing, to resist the urge to tell them "You can't be that stupid, can you?"

Unfortunately, they can.

The Koran is the literal word of god as revealed to Mohammad. One of its main themes seems to be slaves, how to treat them, your ownership rights, and even some of your duties to them.
Having spent almost two decades in Saudi Arabia, much of it in contact with the royal family out there I know first hand that all the slave owning way of life continues unchanged, albeit sometimes thinly disguised.
Arabs have been slave owners and traders for centuries, presumably because of its codeification within the Koran, which removes any taint of cruelty or immorality from the practice.
During the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries the Moors from Morocco, Tunisia and along the N.African coast raided colonial America and the whole coast of Europe including Cornwall, Devon and along the mediterranean coast. Over a million white Europeans were taken into slavery and forced to work as slaves building a maniac's palace, intended to rival Verseilles, at Meknes in Morocco, and were treated with the utmost cruelty by Moulay Ismail the sheik. Thousands died as they worked many at the hands of Moulay Ismail. Only the British Navy under Admiral Pellow put an end to it at the bombardment of Tunis early in the eighteenth century.

There are some wedge issues regarding our war against Islam. Freedom of speech is one of them; slavery is another, even better, issue. Robert is, as usual, right on the money! This should be brought up in every context where it can be used against them.

"How interesting that the newly published "black book of slavery" only mentions Europes slavetrade"

Multiply that by 500,000 over the past 50 years.

Hugh asks "How can the condoning of slavery in the canonical texts of Islam be permanently undone?"

An equally apt question would be "How can the pathologically excessive self-criticism of Westerners be undone?" More than equally apt.

Muslims don't even need to engage in 'Tu Quoque' (except when the odd Jihadwatcher happens to corner them), since the vast majority of the West (academic elites as well as millions of ordinary people) manage to do enough 'Ego Quoque' to let Islam off the hook.

Isn't the etymological source of the word "SLAVE" stem from the Slavs of Central Europe that were enslaved by Muslims? Another brilliant contribution to history.

I Always found it Ironic and totally "Kharmic" That the Black "nation of Islam", "muslims" Who belive that Whites are the Devil and the black man is Godlike, that they voluntarily chose to Accept Islam, a religion that has led to the enslavement of millions of Sub-saharan Black Africans by the "white skinned" Arabs!!! This is a prefect example of G-d's really great sense of humor!!!! G-d says to them: " You wanna choose your religion based on hate and race? Fine, I'll lead you to a religion that enslaved millions of your relatives and you'll learn to love this religion! You consider their language superior to your own! Then i'll pull out the rug from under you when you discover that Arabs still Enslave Blacks in Mauratania! Then finally i will laugh as you try to justify in your mind your choice to belive a racist religion" HA............................HA...................................................................................................................HA.

Good day My Fellow Freedom Lovers,

This is an issue that is close to me personally. As a decendant of slaves here in the United States, I take the Islamic slavery issue to heart. Thus the main reason why I'm so stanchly against Islam and Muslims. Slavery is allowed by the koran, thus allowed under Islam.
My ancestors were subjected to being considered personal property of the plantation owner, to do with as "massa" saw fit. Some treated the slaves with some kindness. Others were out and out cruel. I can just imagine how slaves are treated under Islam. Worst than cruel.
Here in the United States we have the Nation of Islam. Their leader Louis Farrakhan make the claim that Islam dosen't condone slavery of any kind. And Farrakhan, himself pledged that he would never visit a country that allowed slavery. But yet, in 1995, after his so called "Million Man March", he made an extensive tour of the Muslim countries of Africa. Mauritania, the Sudan, and Egypt were amoung the lists of countries that he visited. These are countries that also make slaves of Christians that don't convert to Islam and other non Muslims. Countries that Farrakhan claimed he would never visit because of them allowing slavery. Thus why I have dubbed him Louis FarraConman. He has untold numbers of blacks duped into thinking that Islam is intolerant to slavery and dosen't promote it. But yet in the koran it is practiced. And in the hidith it is written that that the pedophile prophet himself owned slaves!!! Even worst, he hated the nubians a.k.a. black people!!. A hidden fact that is lost on the masses that make up the Nation of Islam in America. With FarraConman demonstrating the total honesty that premiates Islam.
This slavery issue isn't isolated to blacks. Islam would also enslave whites as well, as Godwinson so eloquently pointed out. Islam must be beaten into non statis in the west if we are to keep our freedom. Islam is a social cancer that will destroy everything that is within reach if allowed to fester. The cure for the Islamic invasion is the truth. We must continue to shine the light of truth on Islam where there is darkness. We must try to educate an ignorant world in the ways of Islam and how it would enslave the world, if possible. There will be those that will choose to remain ignorant. We'll let them. It's their choice. But there will be many that will choose "Liberty" over Islam. Freedom over dhimmi. It's happening across the globe. there is nothing the Islamofeces can do about it!!!
Freedom is ringing from Denmark to Norway to France to Germany to Spain across the Atlantic to the United States. The word is spreading about the fraud that is Islam. And there is nothing that the mullahs, imans, ayatollas nor CAIR can do about it. Slavery will never be tolerated again in the Free World.
"Give Me Liberty or Give Me Death!!!"

Proud Infidel,

I feel your pain. Most of my extended social circle is progressive (I'm not surrenduring the world "liberal"), and many are ignorant of what Islam actually teaches. I have lived in SF and now NYC where cultural self-critcism is a fine art. I find the best way to deal with the self-deluded lefty is to present them with information that short circuits their worldview. Specific texts can be very effective. One example that I find useful is Khomeni's 1981 speech on the anniversary of the birth of the prophet:

http://www.faithfreedom.org/Iran/KhomeiniSpeech.htm

Also, the Hadith are a treasure trove of wisdom. The story of the destruction of the Jews of Khaibar and Muhammad's rape of Safiyah are particularly effective at shattering a fantasy world view of Islam and its prophet.

http://www.faithfreedom.org/debates/Shahzad3.htm

Drink deeply, and share with the ignorant. Perhaps they will stop causing corruption in the land!

Quijybo

Very true, Ben-Hur. Serb (serf) means slave. For Americans looking for non-PC information I can recommend the story of Liberia, the West-African country founded by freed African-American citizens in the early 19th century, in the wack of the abolition movement (search word in the library: ACS, the American Society for Colonizing the Free People of Color of the United States). Sierra Leone is another example. O irony, these black American-African elite later (until long after the abolition laws) joined the slave trade for economical reasons, selling their African-African brothers and sisters to Arabs and 'whites'. They also preactised plantation slavery.

ISLAMIC SLAVERY, NATION OF ISLAM (USA) AND MALCOLM X

I have very well educated black American friends who are well aware of the history of Islamic slavery relating especially to blacks. They have noted to me in private that black academics, in the US at least, rarely mention Islamic enslavement of blacks. It is also hardly mentioned in history in most publications. To publish such things is to admit that not only the blue eyed Christian man is the only perpetrator of crimes.

Islam attempts to seduce a weak mind, or a mind in denial. Malcolm X himself was gay. http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1486997,00.html
Are you Surprised? Don't be. Islam is a farce and it is the most hypocritical “religion” ever.

Many persons uncomfortable with themselves that are looking for identity or strict rules might seek this "religion". Former prisoners such as Malcolm X "straightened out" their lives with Islam, at least on the surface. They "change" their lives life with Islam. However, people like Malcolm X could achieve the same result with a myriad of different vehicles - with religion or not, including learning self-respect and self worth by realizing your own worth. No "religion" needs to give American blacks an identity. That identity can only be found from within. Once attained, no one can take your self worth away.

"This is an issue that is close to me personally. As a decendant of slaves here in the United States, I take the Islamic slavery issue to heart. Thus the main reason why I'm so stanchly against Islam and Muslims. Slavery is allowed by the koran, thus allowed under Islam."
--- from a posting above

And there are other considerations. Islam does not permit music, though here and there folk music has been allowed. But music having to do with religious worship is absolutely forbidden. It is curious that real Muslims regarded (and may still regard) Elijah Muhammad's Black Muslims as not the real thing, partly because of the claims made on behalf of Elijah Muhammad himself, and partly because of the music that occasionally was allowed (and may still be) at certain gatherings of followers.

When black Americans discard Christianity for the sake of Islam, because they are fooled into believing that Islam is somehow the correct vehicle of protest, they are not only ignorant of the whole horrible Arab slave trade, which began earlier, and ended (where it did end) later, and was, because it involved the castration on site of so many black African children, so much greater in scope (for the mortality rate was something like 90%, so that only 1 out of 10 black male children seized and castrated by the Arab slavers actually made it to the slave markets of Riyadh, Cairo, Baghdad, Damascus, Algiers, Istanbul, and similar centers of Islam. See "The Hideous Trade" by Jan Hogedoorn.

No, they are also turning their back, discarding, jettisoning, the place of Biblical imagery and of the Bible in the history of black America. They are throwing out all of Gospel music, music that is doubly wicked in Muslim eyes because it involves Old Testament stories (stories involving Jews, and the Promised Land), and that require music, and music is forbidden.

Decades ago, when the Black Muslims first got started, much was made of their ability to supposedly "straighten people" out -- have them wear coats and ties, give up drugs and alcohol, and so on. Well, perhaps. But what it also did is cause them to abandon their entire pre-Islamic history, and to thus sever ties with their own past, their own relatives who remained Christians or part of a Christian or Judeo-Christian tradition.

Finally, let's talk about racism. Anyone who has spent even a week in the Arab states of the Gulf, or taken a summer course in Arabic in Cairo or Damascus, knows that the most racist, most skin-color aware societies on earth, are those of the Arabs -- despite all the talk of a "universalist" religion. One student of my acquaintance, who had taken courses with, and been brainwashed by, Bruce Lawrence of Duke University, to regard Islam as a great thing, then spent a summer in an Arab country, from which he came back completely disabused -- no greater racists, he insisted, had he ever met in his life. He was from rural South Carolina.

Why this information is not more widely written about in the press, including the black press, by black ministers who should try to hold onto their flocks, and not let wanderers be seduced by the siren-song of Islam, which for more than a thousand years has meant nothing but kidnapping, followed by enslavement or death, at the hands of Arab slavers, and today, as the Arabs continue to show their contempt and hatred, not only in the enslavement of black Africans by Arabs in Mali and Mauritania, but by the Libyan mobs that attacked black African students, and lynched a black diplomat, a few years ago, by the Moroccans who have been known to deal with black African migrant workers by taking them and dropping them in the middle of the desert, with no possible way of survival, and of course by the behavior of that member in good standing of the Arab League, the government of the Sudan, which not only, over 20 years, killed or starved to death nearly 2 million black Africans in the southern Sudan (with survivors often enslaved -- ask Francis Bok, ask all the "Lost Boys" now in the United States), but have extended their genocidal campaign to fellow Muslims in Darfur -- fellow Muslims, but black Africans, and so dispensable. As the Egyptian Zaki Badawi recently said, "they were not real Muslims." And that was the end of his comment -- appareently that was enough for him to lose any interest in their being victims of mass murder.

There's much more to add. But surely, in the clever targetting of blacks (the Boston Mosque was placed right across from Roxbury Community College, and part of the "deal" was for the mosque members to offer "free lectures" to students at Roxbury Community College and 2,500 "books on Islam" (you can guess which kind) for the college's library. In other words, the Mosque's backers were planning on using it as a center for conducting Da'wa among the black population of Boston. One wonders if the Rev. Eugene Rivers, or other ministers, have taken note of the history of Islam, of the tenets of Islam, of the menace of Islam to the wellbeing of those whom they instruct and guide and elevate and offer solace to.

Begin with slavery. Slavery was implicitly recognized by the American Constitution. But it is so no longer. Unfortunately, the Constitution has been subject to modification (amendments) and interpretation. There is no way to modify the fact that Qur'an, Hadith, and Sira justify, allow, even offer rules for, slavery. Muhammad owned slaves. It is not possible, therefore, for any Believer to denounce slavery, or to agree that it is a moral evil. To do so would be to condemn, it is felt, Muhammad. And that just can't be done. Slavery is, under Islam, permanently justified.

Prove it about those newspaper ads where one is looking to 'swap'.........

OT - some dangerous crap coming from our U.S. Dept of Arab Appeasement:

"While recognizing the importance of freedom of the press and expression, State Department press officer Janelle Hironimus said these rights must be coupled with press responsibility."

' "Inciting religious or ethnic hatred in this manner is not acceptable," Hironimus said. "We call for tolerance and respect for all communities and for their religious beliefs and practices." '

Inciting religious or ethnic hatred? On whose part?

SLIGHTLY OT: THE JANJAWEED “ARABS”

"We are going to make a light baby."

-The "Arab" Janaweed in Sudan

Arab Militiamen in Sudan Said to Use Rape as Weapon of Ethnic Cleansing
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16001-2004Jun29.html

Arabization is part of racism itself. By internalizing the notion that Mecca/Medina are sacred sites, having to learn Arabic, and Arabic greetings and customs, as has been discussed on the site ad nauseum, one becomes an Arab. In my opinion, this process is presently more pronounced in Africa than anywhere else. However, Sub-Saharan Africa as a whole receives less attention than places like Thailand, Egypt or Indonesia.

SLAVERY AND VEXING RELIGIOUS PROBLEMS; MODERNITY; CAN ISLAM CHANGE?

Hugh,

I do not disagree with you about the slavery. But I remind you that in this country (the USA) we still struggle with the legacy of slavery. We cannot dispute that it was a dark chapter in our history. I am a bit concerned that you feel that interpreting the constitution is a bad thing, really now, how else would it work? The whole purpose of Mulberry v. Madison (in the US for those wondering) was to let the judiciary do with it had to do: interpret laws and the constitution.

As for Islam sanctioning slavery, I wonder if we lost site of how the slavery was tackled in the US. Once we agree that there are fundamental rights that supercede any religious texts, whether they be the bible or quran. I think we were on solid ground. Westerners now thankfully repudiate slavery irrespective of its being “legal” and “ordained” in the bible. Unfortunately, we are shaking the fundamentals of that mighty oak of modernity with renewed religiosity in the USA. If we regress to a truly religion based society ourselves, all bets are off. We either believe in the rules of man, or the rules of the “gods”. Whom do you serve? Whom do the Moslems serve?

The US fought a civil war over this issue. The argument of the day used to justify slavery, among others, was that slavery is allowed in the bible. Will we see the same disagreement/schism in the Moslem world? And if we do, how long will it take to repudiate Islam's grotesque Sharia rules, such as slavery? The Danish cartoons are raising issues about civil liberties and coexistence with Islam. Is the Moslem world ready to tackle them? I sincerely doubt it. Although it may happen one day, I don’t expect to be alive when it happens.

Westerners now thankfully repudiate slavery irrespective of its being “legal” and “ordained” in the bible.

There is a difference between something being "legal", or, better "allowed", and something being "ordained". Of course slavery is referred to in the Bible as something that is a fact of life. But it does not ordain slavery as a practice valid for all times and all places, as the Koran does. The same could be said for other practices in the Bible, mainly the Old Testament, that we now find objectionable.

Mohammed is held up as a perfect example to follow for all time. He had slaves, and he "married" a nine year old, so this is what good Muslims must do. The nearest "example for all time" in Christianity is Jesus, who was far better than your average man, whereas Mohammed was far worse.

Of course, in the past, Christians have used the Bible to justify slavery, subordination of women, all sorts of things. This is the kind of thing people do. But Christianity, partly because of its vagueness on political matters, allows for more enlightened interpretations. Islam does not. In fact it cannot.

I couldn't agree with you more Kafir Nonbeliever. Not much is known about the private life of Malcolm Little other than what is recorded in the history books. But the homosexual angle is news to me. Is there anyway that you can post that information? I'd like to read it for myself.
Just like all false religions, Islam operates in the darkness of ignorance. Thing about the members of the Nation of Islam is that it is made up of men and women that just don't do enough research for themselves. They count on others to reveal the "mysteries" of God to them. It's not limited to Islamics or the black Muslims only. Many Christians are in the same boat when it comes to the Bible as well. A shocking phemnomenon when you thing about it. If they'd just open the book, all would be revealled. But at last, people don't. Too lazy to do so. Thus maintaining the ignorance of the masses. Our so called "black leaders" feed off of this. Louis FarraConman is no exception. He has had to do a bit of cleaning up lately with the revelation about the true founder of the Nation of Islam in America.
The true founder of the Nation of Islam wasn't Elijah Muhammad but a man name Wallace D. Ford or Fard. Mr Fard claimed to be from the Middle East and sent to bring the blackman in America to his true calling under Islam. Very little is known about Wallace D. Ford. But one thing was obvious, Wallace D. Ford or Fard was not black. He was white, with the high cheek bones and blond hair. It's shocking how the leaders of this movement reasoned this out to the masses. It's more shocking how many fell for the lies desguised as reasonable explainations. Wallace D. Fard was also known as Master Fard Muhammad. Now that is something. A whiteman being called "master" by his black followers. Shocking!!!
There is more information about the Nation of Islam in the book, "Why I Could Nerver be a Black Muslim" . This topic is also covered by Robert Morrey in his book, "The Islamic Invasion."
Both books are very good and informative on the subject of Islam and the black Muslim movement.

"I am a bit concerned that you feel that interpreting the constitution is a bad thing, really now, how else would it work?"
-- from a posting above

I can't imagine why you think that. What did I say to even hint at such a view? I was constrasting the way in which the original acceptance of slavery in the Constitution was changed through amendments (13, as well as the lingering effects through 14 and 15), and through interpretation, with the immutable texts that allow for and accept slavery, of Islam.

You misinterpreted something.

RE: Malcolm X' (AKA Malcolm Little) sexuality

See Bruce Perry's biography, Malcolm: The Life of a Man Who Changed Black America (Station Hill, New York). See also Malcolm X - gay black hero? http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1486997,00.html

RE: Malcolm X' (AKA Malcolm Little) sexuality

See Bruce Perry's biography, Malcolm: The Life of a Man Who Changed Black America (Station Hill, New York). See also Malcolm X - gay black hero? http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,,1486997,00.html

Hugh,

This is a problem far more extensive than just Mauritania, Sudan, Mali and Arabia. Several months back, a Saudi princess in Florida was arrested for keeping an Indonesian woman in the most cruel form of slavery. Of course, she got way with it because the thousands of Al-Saud relatives all have diplomatic immunity.

It's no secret in Washington DC that several Muslim diplomats keep slaves in their homes and at the embassies, also covered by diplomatic immunity.

Incidently, an embassy or diplomatic compound can be raided by the host country to free these slaves under the UN convention against slavery. Unfortunately, no Western nation has the moral fortitude to take such an action.

Hugh

I accept your explanation.

Ironman,

I want to clarify that I don't hate Christianity so long as it is rational. For many if not most Christians, it can be. Many Christians simply do not take the bible at face value. They challenge the concepts in the bible even though they still believe in the divinity of God, the Holy Spirit and Christ. I am completely OK WITH THAT! Even as a non-believer, I am impressed by the teachings of Christ that appear to repudiate the vicious, violent old rules. After all, those same Old Testament rules were so much like the Koran’s. Jesus' teachings, on the other hand, even if not deemed divine by non-believers such as myself, are of worth. Islam has no such figure that provides such a belief system to truly better a person. Please note that this is NOT a plug for Christianity. Again, I am a non-believer. So to be fair, I should mention Buddhism, a religion I admire tremendously; a religion that makes sense in many respects. What I am perplexed about is how anyone can embrace Islam knowing what it is about.

Islam does have one powerful tool that we overlook, the sense of community and false "giving" culture within it. It is truly at its core religious socialism. But if they are so benevolent, why haven’t they helped the Palestinians - their own?

Hugh,

You wrote:
Slavery was implicitly recognized by the American Constitution. But it is so no longer. Unfortunately, the Constitution has been subject to modification (amendments) and interpretation.

I think you meant to write Fortunately, and that's what threw Kafir Nonbeliever off.

Kafir Nonbeliever,

Yes it's true that in the Southern states before the war some people used the Bible to justify slavery. Using the Bible as a quote machine to justify what you want to do anyway is not a valid procedure but unfortunately an all to common one.

It is also true the the core of the abolition movement both in the US and England came out of the churches.
The following is from the "Abolition" article from MSN Encarta.

Second, a wave of evangelical revivalism called the Second Great Awakening inspired a reform spirit in the North. The revivalists argued that America was in need of moral regeneration by dedicated Christians. They channeled their fervor into a series of reforms designed to eliminate evils in American society. These reforms included women’s rights, temperance, educational improvements, humane treatment for the mentally ill, and the abolition of slavery. Although not all revivalists were abolitionists, during the mid-19th century the abolitionist movement acquired a new urgency and energy because of their support.

From my association with a young woman who was a "guest worker/slave" in Saudi Arabia for several years, I learned that the system there resembled many aspects of the system of slavery that once existed in the US. In the house where she lived, there was a "overseer," a woman who had worked for the family for over 30 years and trained, supervised and punished the younger women. Yes, there were ads placed in the newspapers if a slave "escaped," giving a physical description and a financial reward for finding and returning the runaway. An underground railroad also existed, with each Third World nationality having its own group of brave men who would help abused women escape cruel masters. Some of the stories could have been made into movies. The young woman that I knew was forced several times to watch beheadings, as a fairly obvious warning and lesson, "This could happen to you too." This is similar to slaves in the US being forced to watch whippings and hangings. Her cousin worked for a diplomat in the Washington DC area and made a rather hair-raising escape, to join other young women who were also runaways from their Arab masters. Those diplomats and businessmen enjoy all the perks of the US and deny their employees the basic freedoms of movement, speech and religion. The State Department does know that this system of slavery goes on with Gulf Arabs just miles from the US Capitol and they do nothing about it....it is a local police matter. So, why am I not surprised that they have sided with the Muslims on the cartoon issue...

Ben Hur, I do not think there is a connection - according to wiki:

"Etymology of Slav
Even the origin of the word "Slav" remains controversial. In the Old Slavonic language that word is "slověne".

There are obvious similarities to the word slovo meaning "word, talk". Thus slověne would mean "people who speak (the same language)", i.e. people who understand each other, as opposed to the Slavic word for Germans, nemtsi, meaning "speechless people" (from Slavic němi - mute, silent, dumb). Compare the Greek coinage of the term "barbarian".

Another obvious similarity links "Slavs" to the word slava, that is "glory" or "praise". The word came about from the verb "slyti", "to be known about"; it arises from the corresponding causative verb, "slaviti".

Sometimes "slav" is calculated to derive from "slov-" by the distinctly Russian phenomenon of akanie. Almost every Slavic nation which retains its initial name for "Slav" uses the word "slověne" for the meaning.

Some linguists believe, however, that these obvious connections are misleading. Names of ethnicities are usually very old and often defy attempts to find etymologies for them.

A false etymology popular in National Socialist propaganda, but also found in some older editions of the Oxford English Dictionary, connected Slav with slave. There is absolutely no linguistic connection between Slavic people and slaves; slave is derived from a Greek word meaning 'spoils of war'.

Wait a minute

According to Irans Terrorist in CHIEF

Only America is guilty of slavery...

Mohammed never
Raped the women in front of their husbands
then beheaded the men and sold the women
As sexual slaves to his men..

Mohammed never ever took jews hostage, butchering some then making slaves of the rest...

No mohammed gave them all ICE CREAM...

There's much more to add. But surely, in the clever targetting of blacks (the Boston Mosque was placed right across from Roxbury Community College, and part of the "deal" was for the mosque members to offer "free lectures" to students at Roxbury Community College and 2,500 "books on Islam" (you can guess which kind) for the college's library. In other words, the Mosque's backers were planning on using it as a center for conducting Da'wa among the black population of Boston.
Posted by Hugh

When I was visiting the churches in my area last year to leave pamphlets and brochures on Islam, I had the pleasure of meeting many black ministers, several of whom still keep in touch and were extremely helpful with my project. Much to my surprise, all of these ministers were well acquainted with Islam, its history, its doctrine, and to put it mildly, they LOATHE ISLAM and everything it stands for. I cannot emphasize enough how much these men helped and encouraged me with my endeavor. Several of them even took me to other churches and introduced me to pastors they knew, which made the job so much easier!

Here in the south, churches are still largely segregated---blacks attend black churches and whites attend white churches, especially the Protestant denominations. I don't know why this is, but it is. I was a little concerned about how I would be received when I began my project, but I was convinced that churches are the best (and safest) places to begin educating people about Islam, and I still believe that. I never expected the black ministers to be such enthusiastic supporters, or to be so acutely aware of the insidious nature of Islam.

Blacks may be easy targets for da'wa in some places, but I don't think that problem exists here. Reverend Smalley, the elderly, distinguished minister at the church where we vote, gave me a history lesson on the Barbary pirates, the Arab slave traders, the eunuchs of the harems, the current situation in Darfur, and a chronicle of his family history, beginning in Africa. I was amazed! He firmly believes that Islam was inspired by Satan.

Hugh:

This is the BEST article you have ever written.

More definitive, factual expose of Islam's hypocrisy is what is needed to enlighten those
who believe Islam is a "religion of peace".

How about some articles on the history of the barbaric Mohammand (may pigs s--t on him)?

But in, truth, isn't Islam itself hard-core physical and spiritual bondage of human beings? As I see it, the institution of slavery, heinous as it is, can't really do anything to human beings that Islam isn't already doing to people in one way or another.

To learjet above--

Knowing how often I have infuriated you with some of my views, I am glad that with this article at least I have managed to please you.

Immigration is a good thing, unless the immigrants are 3rd world DEVOUT Moslems. I myself have immigrated to Sweden (beautiful country, beautiful people, kind people – but like that rest of the West, ignorant about Islam).

In the West, we assume that if an immigrant comes to our country that they will try to assimilate into our culture and accept our values. This is generally true of all immigrants except devout Moslems. They have been so brainwashed by their religion that they cannot accept a non-moslem culture. Please note that I am talking about the DEVOUT MOSLEMS. I am not talking about the Moslems who were only Moslem for fear of being put to death. They were religious prisoners in their old countries! Usually when they get to the West, they find the courage to leave Islam!

The good people (countries) of the West bring these devout Moslems in not knowing the truth behind Islam. Islam IS a religion of TERROR! It has been from the start!

I started learning about Islam after one of them murdered my mother by crashing a plane back on Oct 31, 1999. What I have learned is MIND BLOWING to say the least.

Before my mother’s murder, I believed what I HEARD about Islam. That it is a religion of PEACE and that they worship the same God that the Jews and the Christians worship. The people of the West and their governments also believe this and therefore believe that the Moslems should be able to become good immigrants.

I now know I was given INCORRECT information by UNINFORMED people regarding the Islamic religion. Here is what I have learned. As far as what I am about to say, don’t just take my word as the truth, study about “their prophet” and how their religion grew for yourself and you too will know the truth. You will soon understand that the God THEY worship is NOT the God we worship!

Now please understand that what I am about to say is purely a western viewpoint because the Moslems see it entirely different. What I have learned is that Mohammed was a murdering, sadistic, raping, thieving, lying, slave trading, warmongering, pedophile, who had no problem assassinating anyone who spoke up against him or against “HIS” religion. These ARE documented historical facts; find them yourself!

In short - Mohammed and his band of followers started out by ROBBING the caravans that traveled the desert. He KILLED the caravan people if they tried to defend themselves and sometimes even when they did not try to defend themselves, and he then took their loot for himself and his followers.

He would attack the villages around him and kill off the men, take the women and children as SLAVES for himself and his followers and of course he would take their possessions. Any female slaves he desired were then RAPED. The historical records talk about him desiring a married woman of a family of UNBELIEVERS, so he killed her husband and raped her that night! It is in THEIR book!

Even though he had numerous wives and many slave girls, one day he saw his adapted son’s wife in some state of undress and suddenly had an urge for her. He told his son to divorce the woman so that he could have her. The son complied and Mohammed took her. (In the West, we WOULD NOT consider this to be a MORAL man!)

One wife he married when she was 6 years old. This is OK because there were many child marriages back then but there was NO sex until the girl well past the onset of puberty and so was 11 to 16 years old. In the West Mohammed would be defined as a PEDOPHILE because he strongly desired sex with this child bride. Finally when she was 9 years old, he had sex with her. It is written that at that moment she was playing dolls with her friends when the women came to take her to Mohammed. – Draw your own conclusions.

There are also stories of very SADISTIC acts carried out by Mohammed. For example, some man who committed some crime and when he refused to “repent” Mohammed cut off an arm and a leg. Day(s) later, the man still refused to repent and the prophet cut off his other arm and leg. Day(s) later the last refusal to repent lead to the burning out of the eyes, cutting out his tongue and dragging him out into the desert to die with the warning that anyone who tried to help this man would suffer the same fate. To which the Moslem “HOLY” book exclaims “Mohammed, the Merciful, the Just!” In the West we consider this to be SADISTIC!

FINALLY --- AND MOST IMPORTANTLY!!! Anybody who SPOKE AGAINST Mohammed was put to DEATH ! Anyone who SPOKE AGAINST ISLAM, was put to DEATH ! Anyone WHO LEFT ISLAM, was put to DEATH !

There is the story of 2 unrelated people, from the village that took the Mohammedans in when they were just starting out, who were shocked by what Mohammed and his followers were doing. They each wrote some kind of poem that painted Mohammed in a less than favorable light. The man was ASSASINATED in his sleep and likewise the woman was ASSASINATED in her sleep as well as her ENTIRE FAMILY!

The reason why this is so IMPORTANT is that, with ANYONE who spoke out against Mohammed or Islam, or even who left Islam once they had converted to Islam (or was born into Islam) being put to DEATH -- NO ONE SPOKE OUT ! NO ONE QUESTIONED ISLAM AND NO ONE TRIED TO LEAVE ISLAM !

People converted to Islam out of FEAR because people who were Moslem could not be killed by Mohammed’s army! They could NOT be made into slaves (only unbelievers could be slaves)! They could keep their property and they would have the protection of Mohammed’s army against the unbelievers. Covet thy unbelieving neighbor’s property – it is yours for the taking!

The Moslems excuse the killing, robbing and enslaving because he was waging God’s War against the nonbelievers! The Moslems say that if a woman is your slave, it is NOT rape when you have sex with her because you own her and she has no say in the matter. They say he was not a pedophile because the 9 year old was his wife. The Moslems ignore the other transgressions of Mohammed because AS God’s Prophet, there was ONE SET OF RULES that applied to Mohammed and ANOTHER SET of rules that applied to the rest of Islam.

The Moslems have been so indoctrinated that after 1,400 years, they truly believe BADMOUTHING Islam by ANYONE deserves death! They do not and cannot understand a FREE society.

Islam spread through war and rape. After Mohammed died, the various tribes started to leave Islam. The Mohammedan Army put a quick stop to that by killing the apostates. The Mohammedan Armies continued to wage war and Islam spread. The stories of how the holy warriors would move into an area, slaughter the men and place the women into harems are again – historical fact! Make a lot of babies with these women and soon Islam is the law of the land without question.

After the Islamists entered the Christian lands, the Christians fought back and stopped the Islamic advance into the West. And IN A COMPLETE REWRITING OF HISTORY, it is the Moslems who claim it was the Christians who attacked and waged a crusade against Islam! The Moslem wars against India saw incredible CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY waged against the Indian people! Historical FACT – just find it for yourself.

Christianity did not spread through war. Buddhism did not spread through war. Zoroasterism did not spread through war. Only Islam spread through war.

There is SO much more to this story, you need to find it and understand it for yourself. I believe that once the truth is known, Islam will be exposed for the terroristic religion it truly is! I know people here who were Moslem, who came to the West and when they found out the truth about their religion of “PEACE”, promptly left it knowing that they would not be put to death in the free countries of the West (although in reality, some have been murdered here for leaving Islam).

--An Unbeliever who now faces the death penalty for speaking the truth of Islam!

Kafir,

I respect your point of veiw about Christianity. But I've got to clear up one thing about the Old Testament. God the Father never meant for any of the things in the Old Teatament to happen. It was Adam that screwed everything up. And then tried to "pass the buck ala William Jefferson Blythe Clinton," "if You hadn't given me this women "that YOU made, I'd never would've eaten from that tree!" The reason the Old Testament may read like the koran is because it tells the story of man's inhumanity towards man. The shedding of blood was never God the Father's intention. Now there are some bloody battles in the Old Testament, I'll admit, but it was God the Father keeping His promise to Noah to never destroy or punish the Earth for the sin of man (Adam) again.
You see, man had started to blaspheme blantantly before the Lord after the "fall of Man." Idolatry was rampant around the world. Such to the point that God repented Himself or regretted creating man. Thus the reason God the Father called "the Great Deluge!" Out of all the men on Earth only Noah was worthy. He was obeident to God the Father, thus commissioned to build the great ark!
There's no need to cover the whole story. It's well documented in the Bible. But what happened after the flood is what matters. Man fell back into idolatry!!! The city of Babaylon was center of all the false religions of the world, including Islam!!! And Nimrud or Nimrod was the lord high papal. (I'm not making this up.) He was the founder of all false religious pratices or paganism!!! The town of Ur was a suburb of Babylon from which Abram was called by God the Father. Note that Babylon is located in the country of Iraq.
And let it be known that when Abram and his nephew Lot went their seperate ways, Lot travelled to the east and Abram to the west!!!
To get the full gravity of the text, you'll have to read the 13th chapter of the book of Genesis. In it you will see where God the Father promised Abram at Canaan,

"Lift up now thine eyes and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward:

15. For ALL the LAND which thou seest, to thee will I give it and to thy seed for ever."

18. Then Abram removed his tent, and came and dwelt in the plain of Mam`re which is in Hebron, and built there an alter unto the Lord."
Genesis 14,15 & 18.

This land is now what is known as Israel and the Middle East. When God the Father changed Abram's name to Abraham (the father of nations) Abraham became the first Hebrew or Jew. I wont go into further detail on this matter. But it is the reason for the nation of Israel's exsistance.

We were never mean to be at each other the way that we are. Plus the Old Testament is really a collection of prophecies of the coming messiah, Chirst the Lord or God the Son, Jesus. For that matter, when Jesus was on earth, He quoted from the Old Testament quite often, be it during His forty days and nights in the wilderness resisting Satan by quoting from the Pentateuch or the books of Moses or in the synagogue reading from the book of Isaiah the prophet. Jesus and the apostles that followed after Him never quoted one verse from the koran.
But Muslims claim that that koran was/is the word of God the Father to the prophet Muhammad. But the koran didn't come on the seen until 400 to 600 years after the book of the the Apocalypse or Revalation. And ifthis wereso, wouldn't the two tomes read the same? You know, to stop the confusion? The Bible tells us that "God is not the author of confusion!"
Now I know that you weren't trying to promote Christianity, but I am. Truth be told, I am a licensed minister. And promoting Christ is what I do. Now, I'm not trying to shove Jesus down yours or anybody elses throat. But just letting anyone that wants to know and will listen, that Jesus is there for them and that He loves them and wants them to come to Him for salvation.
A better way to say is this,
I'm a nobody,
Trying to tell everybody,
About somebody,
Who can save anybody!!!
Belief in the divinity of Jesus is not salvation. Thus why many Christians are in the state that they're in. They're too busy studying the doctrines of men, following traditions in the church, instead of the doctrines of God the Father. I run into this in my own church. People waiting for the pastor to declare the "year of the Lord!" I'm not like that. I read and I research. And because I'minto this, I'm outside the norm at my church which usually brings me at odds with the church hierachy.
You're right about most church goers not taking the Bible at face value. Note I said "church goers." Christians are the followers of Jesus Christ. Plus, Christians was the name that MEN gave to the believers, not God the Father nor God the Son.
Now the rules in the Old Testament were written by Moses, a man.
The Ten Commandments were written by God the Father.
Moses' rules were ceremonial law.
God the Father's rules commandment law.
Jesus gave His life for the remission of sin. Not sins. (John 1:29.)
Thus, when Jesus died, as the perfect sacrifice, His blood washed away the sin of man. Thus doing away with ceremonial law, or the Mosiac Law. Leaving only God the Father's Law, the Ten Commandments. This is where church goers miss the boat. They only follow some of the Commandments. Thus where I and other church goers often come at odds. And as you may see or can tell, I'm not of the orthodox kind and I walk to the beat of my own convictions. They just happen to be outside the church norms.
But you are right again about Islam not having a a "Christ" to follow. Muhammad was a sick individual that made up rules and doctrines as he saw fit. Mostly to fulfill his sexual and meglomania lusts. The Muslims are lock step in this way of thinking as well. Muhammad was truely a "son of perdition!!!"
The sense of community is a facade. The blind leading the blind. And you hit the nail on the head with the analogy of the Palestinians.
You may not be a believer, but you're still alright by me. Jesus' best and most devoted believers were those outside of the church. Radical!!!
Now imagine if Jesus was a Muslim. Then we'd have to be worried. But Praise the Lord He's not!!! Once again, you may not be a believer, but I still love you with love of Christ. And I'm not obligated to kill you as an "infidel sinner." But ot tell you of His love for you and how to recieve it. Not condem you. Jesus didn't do it, and neither will I.
May the love of jesus rest rule and abide with you.