I was just pondering last night how the self-righteous and thin-skinned bunch who are apparently the majority of Muslims worldwide will equate Western criticism/satire with violence, and then respond with the real thing.
That niqab-clad lady's placard sums it up perfectly.
Lady, if Western freedom of expression was all the "terrorism" the world had to worry about, that'd be fine by me.
Why is it that all the signs I see on US TV are like "Shame on you, Western Media." Why do they not show this and this is still a mild statement. Why don't they show all the "behead all those who offend the prophet" signs.
Afterthought: The unacceptability of being offended in current times actually increases violence in the world.
Think about all the gang violence that revolves around being "dissed," especially where shoes are damaged. Then there's schoolyard fights, family feuds (not involving Richard Dawson), and of course, the cartoon rage.
Making offenses seem more "offensive" in an attempt to produce a sugar-coated society raises the bar for the level of response.
No wonder "anger management" is such a hot industry as society becomes more politically incorrect. We're merely lowering our threshhold of pain.
May the Creator of the heavens and the earth reward your valiant strivings in the den of inequity of the shaytin.
One ponders the question: Of all the professed religions of the world... WHY has Islam become the chief and sole obsession of so many Americans? Is it purely because of the events of September 11, or are there other reasons? What motivates so many people that are not Muslim to spend countless hours researching Islam if they want nothing to do with it?
Be sure, this is a dedicated, well-orchestrated, totally planned campaign being waged to disuade as many people as possible from their chosen religion (funny, they are not interested in converting the atheists, wiccans or satanists), and turn back as many Muslims as they can from their religion. If this were not so, you would be able to engage in intelligent dialogue with these people and discuss and compare religion respectfully without trading insults.
The tendency to apply today's standards to acts that occurred more than 1,400 years ago is also suspect, given the fact that Muslims are accused of living in the past and following a religion that is archaic and obsolete. The bible, revered by millions as irrefutable truth from God, is never put under similar scrutiny.
For example, Prophet Lot is reported to have slept with his two daughters after the destruction of Sodom and Gomorah at their urging, fearing that the world needed to be repopulated and they were the only survivors as seen in these direct quotes from the bible, NIV:
"Lot and His Daughters" NIV, Genesis 19:30-36
30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let's get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father."
33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and lay with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, "Last night I lay with my father. Let's get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father." 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
36 So both of Lot's daughters became pregnant by their father. 37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab [g]; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi [h] ; he is the father of the Ammonites of today.
Should we question the morals of Prophet Lot and his daughters for engaging in this obvious act of incest?
Still more distressing passages of immorality can be found in Genesis 38:13-18. I challenge anyone anywhere to find a single passage that says Muhammad slept with his daughters, committed adultery, or fornicated even once outside of marriage:
13 When Tamar was told, "Your father-in-law is on his way to Timnah to shear his sheep," 14 she took off her widow's clothes, covered herself with a veil to disguise herself, and then sat down at the entrance to Enaim, which is on the road to Timnah. For she saw that, though Shelah had now grown up, she had not been given to him as his wife.
15 When Judah saw her, he thought she was a prostitute, for she had covered her face. 16 Not realizing that she was his daughter-in-law, he went over to her by the roadside and said, "Come now, let me sleep with you." "And what will you give me to sleep with you?" she asked.
17 "I'll send you a young goat from my flock," he said. "Will you give me something as a pledge until you send it?" she asked.
18 He said, "What pledge should I give you?"
"Your seal and its cord, and the staff in your hand," she answered. So he gave them to her and slept with her, and she became pregnant by him. 19 After she left, she took off her veil and put on her widow's clothes again.
And in the following passages, David lies with Bathshebah, a black hittite woman, the wife of Uriah, plots for him to be killed in battle, and earns the wrath of God. Notice that the prophets of the bible did not shy away from killing and warfare. Also notice that in 2 Samuel 11:4, Bathshebah lay with David after ritually "purifying" herself from "uncleanness". Why was she considered "unclean"?:
2 Samuel 11:1-26 (NIV)
David and Bathsheba
1 In the spring, at the time when kings go off to war, David sent Joab out with the king's men and the whole Israelite army. They destroyed the Ammonites and besieged Rabbah. But David remained in Jerusalem.
2 One evening David got up from his bed and walked around on the roof of the palace. From the roof he saw a woman bathing. The woman was very beautiful, 3 and David sent someone to find out about her. The man said, "Isn't this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah the Hittite?" 4 Then David sent messengers to get her. She came to him, and he slept with her. (She had purified herself from her uncleanness.) Then [a] she went back home. 5 The woman conceived and sent word to David, saying, "I am pregnant."
6 So David sent this word to Joab: "Send me Uriah the Hittite." And Joab sent him to David. 7 When Uriah came to him, David asked him how Joab was, how the soldiers were and how the war was going. 8 Then David said to Uriah, "Go down to your house and wash your feet." So Uriah left the palace, and a gift from the king was sent after him. 9 But Uriah slept at the entrance to the palace with all his master's servants and did not go down to his house.
10 When David was told, "Uriah did not go home," he asked him, "Haven't you just come from a distance? Why didn't you go home?"
11 Uriah said to David, "The ark and Israel and Judah are staying in tents, and my master Joab and my lord's men are camped in the open fields. How could I go to my house to eat and drink and lie with my wife? As surely as you live, I will not do such a thing!"
12 Then David said to him, "Stay here one more day, and tomorrow I will send you back." So Uriah remained in Jerusalem that day and the next. 13 At David's invitation, he ate and drank with him, and David made him drunk. But in the evening Uriah went out to sleep on his mat among his master's servants; he did not go home.
14 In the morning David wrote a letter to Joab and sent it with Uriah. 15 In it he wrote, "Put Uriah in the front line where the fighting is fiercest. Then withdraw from him so he will be struck down and die."
16 So while Joab had the city under siege, he put Uriah at a place where he knew the strongest defenders were. 17 When the men of the city came out and fought against Joab, some of the men in David's army fell; moreover, Uriah the Hittite died.
18 Joab sent David a full account of the battle. 19 He instructed the messenger: "When you have finished giving the king this account of the battle, 20 the king's anger may flare up, and he may ask you, 'Why did you get so close to the city to fight? Didn't you know they would shoot arrows from the wall? 21 Who killed Abimelech son of Jerub-Besheth [b] ? Didn't a woman throw an upper millstone on him from the wall, so that he died in Thebez? Why did you get so close to the wall?' If he asks you this, then say to him, 'Also, your servant Uriah the Hittite is dead.' "
22 The messenger set out, and when he arrived he told David everything Joab had sent him to say. 23 The messenger said to David, "The men overpowered us and came out against us in the open, but we drove them back to the entrance to the city gate. 24 Then the archers shot arrows at your servants from the wall, and some of the king's men died. Moreover, your servant Uriah the Hittite is dead."
25 David told the messenger, "Say this to Joab: 'Don't let this upset you; the sword devours one as well as another. Press the attack against the city and destroy it.' Say this to encourage Joab."
26 When Uriah's wife heard that her husband was dead, she mourned for him. 27 After the time of mourning was over, David had her brought to his house, and she became his wife and bore him a son. But the thing David had done displeased the LORD.
Should the bible as a result be viewed as a manual of incest and debauchery because of these passages? What do these passages tell us about the lowly status of women during these times?
And what sense shall we make of the following biblical passages about the sons of Prophet Noah? It has been a long-standing dispute that these passages infer that the black-skinned peoples of Africa are the descendents of Ham, the Canaanites, cursed by Noah to be the eternal "slaves" of their brothers (see Genesis 9:24-27). If this is not true, why haven't these passages been stricken from the bible, as they would have Muslims strike offensive passages from the qur'an? Note also that Noah is reported to have lived 950 YEARS, when the average life expectancy of a human today is about 75 years. I don't hear anyone challenging the validity of this claim.
The Sons of Noah (NIV) Genesis 9:18-28
18 The sons of Noah who came out of the ark were Shem, Ham and Japheth. (Ham was the father of Canaan.) 19 These were the three sons of Noah, and from them came the people who were scattered over the earth.
20 Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded [a] to plant a vineyard. 21 When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent. 22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father's nakedness and told his two brothers outside. 23 But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father's nakedness. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father's nakedness.
24 When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him, 25 he said,
"Cursed be Canaan!
The lowest of slaves
will he be to his brothers."
26 He also said,
"Blessed be the LORD, the God of Shem!
May Canaan be the slave of Shem. [b]
27 May God extend the territory of Japheth [c] ;
may Japheth live in the tents of Shem,
and may Canaan be his [d] slave."
28 After the flood Noah lived 350 years. 29 Altogether, Noah lived 950 years, and then he died.
My beloveds, I give these few passages to you as an example of the deception, dishonesty, and twisted purpose of those who attack you here, who spend all of their energies and exhaust their knowledge and resources attacking Muslims and what we believe, without looking at what they claim to believe themselves.
May God the Creator grant you peace and mercy and forgiveness of your sins. Salutations of peace to Muhammad and all the prophets and companions of heaven.
As the spokesman for the PADL (Pig Anti-Defamation League) I am expressing my outrage at your association of pigs with Muhammad. Please note that pigs have never started wars, started a death cult, enslaved and murdered people or reduced women to the status of objects. Pigs are definitely not war monging, enslaving pedophiles. Your statements defame pigs around the world and can not be tolerated.
Aren't these people then "western terrorists" themselves because they have the freedom of expression to say that "Freedom of expression is Western terrorism"? Or that they can even have demonstrations such as these? Hmmm.....
Hey Unbrilde, Don't insult stupid people like that. Calling an Islamofeces stupid is like giving them first class statis!!! Moving them up the evolutionary chain to stupid.
I urge everyone to post the cartoons of Mohammed on their webpages. I was appalled that the University of PEI has removed copies of the student paper The Cadre, which published these cartoons:
"But the thing David had done displeased the LORD".
The reason Americans are so hot to criticize Islam is because it, like other religions, needs criticism. Christianity and Judaism, as well as their adherents, are criticized constantly in the west, as well as in the Muslim world, not to mention in the Quran.
Muhammad did so many things that are immoral by modern standards, yet across the Muslim world there is no self-criticism, and in the west we have been taught by our multicultural ethos that we cannot criticize. This is why so many are reprinting the cartoons - we not only have the right to criticize Islam, there is a pent up need. How can the west be safe from Islamic terror if we do not study the very texts that the terrorists use to justify their actions? How can the Muslim world advance beyond its backwardness, beset by misogyny, political violence and tyranny, when this sacred cow, Islam, is really an albatross?
Many Americans who have read Islam's canonical texts have come to the same conclusion as Ali Sina - Islam, divorced from its violent prohibition against criticism, is intellectually weak. Now, with "cartoon rage", Islam's priviledged position in the west is at an end.
There can be no question that the events described, and some morals propigated in the Old Testament, are problematic. But how can this tu quoque work, when the critic of Islam you want to distract is actually an atheist, whose morality is based on "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"?
You want to know one fundamental difference between what you argue and what is reality? The difference is the regard to which you hold the "prophet" (or maybe it's "profit") Muhammad. No Christian anywhere in the world says "You know, I choose to immulate the life of the "prophet" Lot or the "prophet" Noah. No Christian says that. Anywhere. Ok, so Lot got drunk and was essentially raped by his daughters. Ok, fine, it says that directly. Does a Christian anywhere in the world then say "you know, if I get drunk and my children have sex with me, everything is fine. There is precident there from the "prophet" Lot and is therefore lawful".
No.
On the same side of the coin, Muslims choose to "live by the example of the 'prophet' Muhammad", a man who raped, pillaged, plundered, and burned villages, cities, and entire families. Why would you want to live by the example of such a man? Why is he praiseworthy at all?
No christians anywhere comoe up with sayings of "praise Noah" or "praise Moses" or anything of the sort.
Just because stories of immorality or destruction exist in both the Koran and the Bible, that does not make Islam and Christianity co-equals. It makes them nothing of the sort. What matters is people's actions. The actions to the adherents of that religion speak volumes about the religion as a whole.
One site was done by a bunch of Danes with many
Mohammed cartoons...the one I really enjoyed was the toilet paper roll with his picture on every sheet. That's where the big Mo belongs is down the crapper. Now that's free wiping! Too bad we can't post pics here as I'd love to share.
Another great pic was out of Legos with Moham
doing Aiesha. What a great prophet...Him and Michael Jackson should join ranks.
My husband was really struck with that Lego spoof. I use a lot of Lego to play out Bible stories with the children. Do Mosques have Friday school teachers? That's one story I wouldn't want to see demonstrated. For children 6+
Hashepsut
You have made some logical and some esegetical mistakes in your post:
the logical ones:
L1)you make use of a rethorical form that is called "tu quoque". That means, instead of replying to the issue under investigation, you prefer to lauch some accusations vs your talking partner. This is a typical way of refusing to go into your details
L2) you say that there is a clear evidence of a coordinated assault vs islam. Where are the facts? You should be aware that there are daily insults on all religions in the western media (and i the Muslim world?). Why should be Islam the exception? As Muslims think their religion is the true one of course other think the same. The Aquinas said that reasoning by making reference to "the power above" is the weakest argument that one can bring. Are you not fed up with all these conspiracy theories?
The esegetical ones:
E1) You take as exemple the OT. Ok, but it is soooo strange that you don't mention anything about the New one...Why is it? Do you know the meaning of the Messiah for Christians? and the implications of his coming? You shurely know otherwise you would not be able to differenciate between Christians and yews.
E2) You surely know that no-one (it has been made although by western scholars) in the Islamic world has ever attempted to utilize the "Formkritik" to analyze the Qur'an (it is current for the OT and the NT)...but somehow you "try" (euphemism) to do this with some parts of the OT. Strange at least. You make here the mistake to read the Bible as it were the Qur'an. That means that you cannot differenciate between the two. You should know that the Bible is compiled by 50+ books and for each one you should know what kind of literature it is.
E3) that means that you try to do a plain vanilla job without knowing if it is a fable, a story, a myth a biography or something else. You should know that -for Christinas- the books of the Bible are inspired and that the Bible has not been dictated word by word as Muslims think it is in the Qur'an.
E4) for quoting the Bible -opposite to the Qur'an- you should know (as already told) the kind of book, the kind of literature it represents, and especially, you have to put it into the context. What does it want to say? For this reason the two books are not comparable.
The issue to be discussed here is too complicated, but if you are looking for deep analysis and for theological answers on this subjects, the best web site I've found till now is answering-islam.org
This is right up there with the "Democracy go to hell" placard carried by a demented Muslim protester in London recently. These are the true sentiments of "mainstream" Muslims. That is why they will never successfully integrate into Western societies and will forever pose a grave threat to the peace and well-being of the citizens of Western host nations to these hostile immigrants.
We do not need to tolerate the presence in our countries of the hate-filled ideology of Islam any more than we need to tolerate cannibalism that is also a sacred creed of some primative tribes in the desolate corners of the globe.
You want to know one fundamental difference between what you argue and what is reality? The difference is the regard to which you hold the "prophet" (or maybe it's "profit") Muhammad. No Christian anywhere in the world says "You know, I choose to immulate the life of the "prophet" Lot or the "prophet" Noah. No Christian says that. Anywhere. Ok, so Lot got drunk and was essentially raped by his daughters. Ok, fine, it says that directly. Does a Christian anywhere in the world then say "you know, if I get drunk and my children have sex with me, everything is fine. There is precident there from the "prophet" Lot and is therefore lawful".
No.
On the same side of the coin, Muslims choose to "live by the example of the 'prophet' Muhammad", a man who raped, pillaged, plundered, and burned villages, cities, and entire families. Why would you want to live by the example of such a man? Why is he praiseworthy at all?
No christians anywhere comoe up with sayings of "praise Noah" or "praise Moses" or anything of the sort.
Just because stories of immorality or destruction exist in both the Koran and the Bible, that does not make Islam and Christianity co-equals. It makes them nothing of the sort. What matters is people's actions. The actions to the adherents of that religion speak volumes about the religion as a whole.
I don´t know if that is true or not, but I´ve read that a Muslim artist painted a naked Hindu Goddess. Hindu extremist become angry, but at the end, it was considered freedom of speech. No riots, nobody death.India didn´t made any boycott, didn´t need an apologized from all Muslim community. It could be double standard???
The words on the banner don't make any sense. I must assume that there's a deficiency there in thinking abilities.
Also, the fingers on the hand holding the banner look very thick for a female hand. Would a male dress like that? If so, there must be a reason -- to remain anonymous ... to protect his honour?
a banner held by a burkha clad female (?) somewhere in a civilized western country, February 2006
You gotta sit back, take a deep breath and let it sink in: We have permitted people to settle among us, who hate us, who teach their children to hate us and who want to kill us if we don't submit to their perverted cult.
We've had to put up with 9/11, 7/7, Bali 1 & Bali 2, Beslan, Madrid, the French intifadah, Koran-rage, cartoon rage, we didn't kill any Muslims (backlash) and instead of calling their bluff, most, if not all western governments weasel and lie about the threat of Islam.
Our leaders are fearful of the Islamic terror and their assassins: instead of raiding the mosques, cutting all support for them and kicking them out of Eurabia, they prostrate themselves in front of this threat at the expense of the indigenous population...
hatshepsut misses a key point in all her (?) biblical click-and-paste. None of the figures referenced (Lot, David, Noah) are regarded as prophets in Hebrew tradition. That's strictly a Muslim take. Thus your claims that "prophets" do this or that are immaterial.
Their actions have been criticized since time immemorial by Hebrew prophets (the prophet Nathan castigated David in the name of the Lord) or later commentators. Noah is regarded by the Talmudic rabbis as a man who was "righteous in his time", i.e. he doesn't look so hot compared to the Patriarchs or prophets, in part because while he built the ark as the Lord commanded, he didn't do enough to turn his neighbors away from sin. The incest of Lot's daughters gave rise to two nations regarded as bastards in later scripture.
So there's plenty of criticism of the Bible, even in the way-back before modern critical study of the texts became an academic discipline in 19th century Europe. The Koran virtually cries out for similar study...no reason that it should be exempt.
OT, but from another thread, if anybody wants a real "Godfather" episode in the Bible, check out I Kings Ch. 2, 1-12 for David's deathbed scene, where he instructs Solomon on the "unfinished business" to be dealt with.
Hey Hatshepsup,
The Bible never hides the fact that man will do things that are outside the will of Jehovah-Elyon, the Most High God. Or God the Father. The passages that you posted are not attempts to decieve. If it were, you wouldn't be quoting them, because they would not have been there in the first place.
That curse that Noah decreed on Canaan was never honoured by God the Father. If it had then the Hebrews would not have been made slaves by the Egyptians. The Egyptians were the decendants of Canaan, just incase you didn't know.
And David was punished by God the Father for the death of Uriah. His son by Bathsheba, Uriah's wife, was born sick and died. Plus David's own son, Absolom, tried to kill him. David's sin against Uriah brought a curse on the house of David.
Then Lot and his daugthers. I guess that you're trying to say that the Bible condones insest. It dosen't. Once again, the Bible is just letting it be known that it happened. But look at how it happened. The daughters got Lot drunk!!! Thus why the Bible says that it is a sin to be a drunkard. It's not hidden from the light of day. It's there to be seen. To be READ!!!
Your problem is that you may not study the WHOLE Bible. You've got to also read the New Testament as well. Not just the Old Testament. Just like I read the WHOLE koran. But then, being a Muslim, you won't. You Muslims are too afraid of the truth.
Christianity never claimed to be a "religion of peace," Islam did. Or the followers of Islam did. The Bible tells of the many numerous wars that transpired between the Hebrews (Jews) and everyone else, including the Philestines or as they are known today, the Palestinians!!!
Now you can bring up Lot being drunk having illicit sexual intercorse with his daughters, but you Muslims overlook the fact that the false prophet Muhammad married a six year old little girl and had sex with her when she turned nine!!! At least Lots daughters were grown and had to get Lot drunk!!! Was the prophet drunk when he had sexual relations with his UNDERAGED wife Aisha?
You claim that we're, or I'm attacking Islam. I'm only lettting the truth be known. Clearing up your attempt to distort the "True" word of God the Father. That's what you Muslims do. Distort truth. Here is what God the Son, Jesus, say about fault finding,
"Judge not,that ye be not judged." Matthew 7:1
Just incase you don't understand, let me make it plain,
"If you're living in a glasshouse, then refrain from throwing stones!!!"
Islam is a glasshouse. Christianity is a solid foundation upon which a house is built.
Islam is made from brick, but it uses slime for mortar.
Christianity is built on a Rock.
Thus why you Muslims will never suceed with Islam.
It's foundation is miered in slime. That is why you can attack Christianity and it will bounce back stronger than before you attacked it. Attack Islam and the masses rape, burn, and pillage those who expose the truth about Islam. But the thing is that your reaction to criticism of Islam and your prophet, validates or invalidates Islam.
And you Muslims are doing a fine job of showing Islam in it's true light.
In the future, when you attack something, make sure that you know the WHOLE truth. That way it won't hurt so bad.
Maybe one day I'll tell how the prophet, as a young lad, would hear the stories from wayfarers about the the Bible and used the distorted stories in the koran. Or maybe how his trip with the angel Gabriel may have been one of his epileptic episodes. He was rumored by historians to be a possible epileptic.
Ouch!!! The truth hurts,don't it?
It is interesting that we need to know who started it first and grasp words from religious text to justify our actions.
Was it Gulf War II, was it 9/11, was it the Taliban, was it Gulf War I (Desert Storm), was it USS Cole, was it Kahdaffi and bombing Algeria, was it bombing the US embassy in Lebanon, was it Iranian students and the Shah of Iran, was various hijackings and bombings of commercial airlines, was it various wars against Israel, was it British and French colonialism, was it Lawrence of Arabia, was it Armenians and Turks, was it Tribal warfare, was it oil, was it the Crusades, was it the destruction of elimination of Buddism from their birthplace in India, Was it the establishment of the Mafia in Sicily in a 200 year fight to cast out the Moslems, Was it sacking the Vatican, Was it the Moorish conquest of much of Europe and Asia, was it Jesus and his disciples speading Christianity, was it the Romans, was it the Pharos??? Or did some caveman steal another caveman's food.
You can pull all the passages of the Bible and the Koran out of your posteriors that you want in order to justify your position, it really is meaningless. The point is that we have always been at war and likely we will continue to wage war against each other until the end of time.
The series of photos also show the familiar pictures of "peace loving" Palarabs stoning Israelis. It's remarkable how seamlessly these pictures meld with those of Muslims raging against the West.
What homo Islamicus believes:
:
Regarding jihad, one can view the following quotes in MAS-Tampa’s “e-Library”:
“A Muslim must always worship Allah and wage jihad until death in order to reach his ultimate goal… Therefore the steadfast Muslim will achieve this goal either through a lifetime of effort or through sudden death as a martyr… Regularly make the intention to go on jihad with the ambition to die as a martyr. You should be ready for this right now, even though its time may not have come yet.” (Fathi Yakan, ‘To Be a Muslim’) “First: we Muslims have not discharged the duty of jihad that is compulsory for everyone of us in many Islamic countries to liberate the Muslim land from usurpers and aggressors in Palestine, Eritrea, the Philippines, Afghanistan, Tashkent, Bukhara, Samarkand, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan and other Muslim republics (and cities) of the Soviet Union, and other similar places in China, Ethiopia and Thailand, etc… no force can stand in our way today if we act in earnest and devote our efforts to conveying our Call to the whole world.” (Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, ‘Priorities of the Islamic Movement’)
“…the Movement has never forgotten and will never forget the Palestinian cause… [This] has been crystallized in the steadfast, brave, aware Islamic resistance movement “Hamas”. Hamas is an embodiment of the Palestinian People’s belief in its Muslim and Arab origins, and a testimony that this people is still alive and will never die and that its jihad will be carried on by pure hands and clean hearts until victory is achieved with the will of Allah.” (Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, ‘Priorities of the Islamic Movement’)
“The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: He who does not join the warlike expedition (jihad), or equip, or looks well after a warrior’s family when he is away, will be smitten by Allah with a sudden calamity.” (‘Partial Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud’)
“…the Mujahidun who return safe and sound from the battlefield and get their share of booty are inferior in reward to those who are martyred or wounded in Jihad and do not get any share from the booty… when the situation calls for Jihad then the foremost priority of a Muslim should be Jihad.” (‘Riyad-us-Saliheen’)
Regarding non-Muslims, one can view the following quotes in MAS-Tampa’s “e-Library”:
“The Holy Prophet (and through him the Muslims) has been reassured that he should not mind the enmity, the evil designs and the machinations of the Jews… In view of the degenerate moral condition of the Jews and the Christians, the Believers have been warned not to make them their friends and confidants.” (Abul Ala Mawdudi, ‘Chapter Introductions To The Quran’)
“God will cause the jews to be defeated. Earth shall be filled with muslims as a vessel is filled to the brim with water-the entire world shall recite the same Kalima (Islamic declaration of belief) and worship shall be offered to none else except God Almighty.” (Abul Ala Mawdudi, ‘The Finality of Prophethood’)
“The Prophet, peace be upon him, said: ‘May Allah destroy the Jews, because they used the graves of their prophets as places of worship.’”… “The Prophet, peace be upon him, said: ‘May Allah curse Jews and Christians for they turned the graves of their Prophets into places of worship.’” (Sayd Sabeq, ‘Fiqh-us-Sunnah’)
“Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Prophet (peace be upon him) once said: ‘He who possesses sufficient provisions and means of journey for the performance of Hajj and yet does not do so, let him die the death of a Jew or a Christian.’” (Sayd Sabeq, ‘Fiqh-us-Sunnah’)
“A Jew came to the Prophet asking for his debt and said: ‘You are from the tribe of Abd Manaf whose tribe likes to delay paying debts.’ When Umar heard this, he swore that he would cut off the Jew’s head.” (Fathi Yakan, ‘To Be a Muslim’)
“The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. ‘O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.’” (‘Sahih Bukhari’)
Ironman:
A correction if I may:
Today's "Palestinians" have nothing to do with the Philistines of the Bible. They are Arabs, speaking the Arabic language, practising the Arab religion (Islam) and part of the Arab culture. The Philistines arrived on the scene (probably from the Greek islands) in the late 2nd millenium BCE and contemporary references to them disappear long before the Romans arrived. The Romans then used the name Palestina to replace Judaea as part of their campaign of ethnic cleansing of the Jews from their land after the Bar-Kokhba rebellion (about 130-135 CE). The very name Palestine is therefore fascist in origin, since the fasces themselves were a Roman symbol of authority. What that says about the "Palestinians" of today needs no explanation.
Leave a Message in the Anonymous Muslim Man Complaint Box
Dear Muslim Man Complaint Box,
I saw on the TV that there is a show now with a woman host. This is not very bad by itself because the woman was dressed in accordance with the laws of Islam and did not expose herself and inflame the lust of any male guests. However, this woman was having a talk with guests and things got a bit out of control when the woman host said "no, I don't think so" to one of the guests. I was so mad I told my wife to drown herself in the bathtub while I finished watching the show. Then, later in the show, the host says "you are wrong" to a doctor! I could not believe it!
Please see if you could beat this woman with a chain and I thank you in advance.
Inshallah Muslim Man Complaint Box,
My child was drawing pictures for school and this is forbidden. What makes the situation worse is that the picture was of our whole family and also blessed Mohammad. It was not a very clear picture of Mohammad and I think his likeness would be considered obscured by the scriptures. Just to be sure I hanged my son and burned his body and then my brothers burned the school and also hanged the teacher. What I want to know is what can be done about the ability to draw? Any child can go about creating blasphemous rendering of Mohammad! This is lightning in the hands of the unprotected. My son is in the afterlife now because of these crayons and "construction" paper, which I say is "destruction" paper. That is a little joke, but I am not laughing. Something must be done.
Dear Muslim Man Complaint Box,
This is a complaint in general about women these days. Things are getting out of control with the influences of the West and they are more willing than ever to speak their minds. Yesterday I thought I heard a woman whisper "Ally McBeal" in a marketplace to another woman and then their heads turned to each other like they might be making eye-contact through the mesh screens hiding their eyes. I do not know if anything can be done about this, but I would like to find myself a good Muslim wife.
Also death to America, death to Israel, yadda, yadda, yadda.
Dear Muslim Man Complaint Box,
I am a devoted Muslim man living in the heart of the beast. I live within the Jew-cursed border of the state of Jew Jewrsey in Jewmerica and I am very unhappy. The other day I heard an American man say that Islam is not a religion of peace. This is intolerable and doubly so when the laws of America prevent me from cutting out his tongue, setting fire to his house and taking his wife as my own. I demand that something be done about this and also death to Israel.
Dear Muslim Man Complaint Box,
I am a devoted follower of the Prophet Mohammed living in the occupied land of Iraq. I am not an insurgent, I am just an honest man trying to live my life. There is an American by the name of Pete Reynolds who sometimes buys baklava from my shop and he is very nice. The problem is I found out a few weeks ago that he was an atheist when I was talking to him. I know it is my duty to kill all infidels, but I was wondering if exceptions could possibly be made if the infidels are particularly friendly. Perhaps I could simply wound the infidels or hurt their feelings very badly. He was fat as all decadent Westerners usually are and I think maybe I could have made some rude comments about that to him and he might have even killed himself. Anyway, no biggie, he was beheaded a couple days ago when the United States refused to release Jalal "The Red Hand of Allah" Al Harami. Get back to me when you get a chance.
PS - Death to Israel
Dear Muslim Man Complaint Box,
Hey, I don't know if you noticed, but my entire family lives in a fucking bomb crater eating leaves all day. I know Death to Israel, Death to America and all that but do you think you could take a look at installing a floor in my crater or something? I'm on your side, I'm Muslim, I just think we need to prioritize better. Maybe ease back on the "death to X" stuff and look into paved roads and running water. When I can afford to buy a car I promise to load the trunk full of fertilizer and drive it into a Jewish wedding. Let's just get me to the "buy a car" part first.
Dear Muslim Man Complaint Box,
Waddup mah G-had niggaz. I'm ridin' high in U to the A to the E and I just wanna kno what a nigga can do to drop dem bombs on tha club. My main Mullah nigga MC Ishuan got hot tracks like napalm and he be wantin' to roll on up with some OBL samples but a nigga be livin in caves and shit. Get me tha GPS and I'll send tha stretch hummer out to pick his ass up. Hit me up on my blackberry and it's on like Alizzy Jizzyerizzy.
D2A, D2I, TTYL
Dear Muslim Man Complaint Box,
I like cowboys and I think that means I have to cut my hands off. That kind of sucks.
Dear Muslim Man Complaint Box,
My daughter was raped by my neighbor and we burned her alive because she was tainted. My issue is that I think I should be able to rape his daughter back instead of having to burn my perfectly good daughter. So she was raped, so what? All of her parts still worked. She could still cook a meal. She could still find a good husband. She could still catch a beating like a net. I think this situation is unfair.
Dear Muslim Man Complaint Box,
the offensive against Christmas in the United States is stalling. Our enemies at Fox News have caught on to our plans and they are hunting down our operatives. Just last week Yasser was caught by the pig dogs trying to set fire to a Holiday Store in the McCormick Mall. Their nativities are multiplying unchecked! Please send reinforcements!
Also if there are any openings I would like to request a transfer to the Death to Israel division. This is pretty much a BS job.
Dear Muslim Man Complaint Box,
Megadittos! Hey, I was just wondering if you could look into moving Sunnis out of the "fidel" category and over to the "infidel" one. I think they are collaborating with the West because I saw one talking to a Russian who I don't think was Muslim and he also didn't look overly serious about killing Israel. Just look into it when you get a chance.
Dear Muslim Man Complaint Box,
I am displeased with the way that Shi'ites drive because they drive one way and we Sunnis drive a completely different way.
For our Muslim readers, an example of the freedom of inquiry in the west. This man is challenging the very foundation of the Christian religion. Is he torn to pieces by a screaming mob?
Nope.
You might want to try a little tolerance on your side for a change.
ROME, Italy (AP) -- An Italian judge has dismissed an atheist's petition that a small-town priest should stand trial for asserting that Jesus Christ existed, both sides said on Friday.
Luigi Cascioli, a 72-year-old retired agronomist, had accused the Rev. Enrico Righi of violating two laws with the assertion, which he called a deceptive fable propagated by the Roman Catholic Church.
"The Rev. Righi is very satisfied and moved," Righi's attorney, Severo Bruno, said. "He is an old, small-town parish priest who never would have thought he'd be in the spotlight for something like this."
Cascioli, a former schoolmate of Righi's, said he had not expected the case to succeed in overwhelmingly Roman Catholic Italy.
"This is not surprising but it doesn't mean it all ends here," he said, adding that he's considering taking the case to the European Court of Human Rights.
"This is an important case and it deserves to go ahead," he said.
Judge Gaetano Mautone said in his decision that prosecutors should investigate Cascioli for possible slander.
The ruling was released Thursday in Viterbo, a town north of Rome where the priest is based. Cascioli filed a criminal complaint against Righi in 2002 after Righi wrote in a parish bulletin that Jesus existed, that he was born to a couple named Mary and Joseph in Bethlehem and that he lived in Nazareth.
Righi, 76, said substantial historical evidence proves Jesus' existence.
Cascioli claimed that Righi's assertions violated two Italian laws: one barring "abuse of popular belief," or fraudulently deceiving people; and another barring "impersonation" or personal gain from attributing a false name to someone.
Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
"This is not surprising but it doesn't mean it all ends here," he said, adding that he's considering taking the case to the European Court of Human Rights.
Treehugger~ figure that the European Court of Human Rights will quickly become a travesty of human rights, beginning with attempts to kill off Christianity in Europe as quickly as possible.
Posted by hapshepsut: "One ponders the question: Of all the professed religions of the world... WHY has Islam become the chief and sole obsession of so many Americans? Is it purely because of the events of September 11, or are there other reasons? What motivates so many people that are not Muslim to spend countless hours researching Islam if they want nothing to do with it?"
By and large, Americans are friendly, kind, and generous. They are eager to interact with and learn about other cultures. They are eager to share their good fortune with others. They are eager to celebrate the best of what the world civilizations have produced over the centuries, and discard all the bad things. The basic attitude of Americans is "live and let live"--to be a good neighbor.
After the Cold War ended (World War III), the Americans expected that, with the threat of global Communist tyranny finally defeated, they could settle into a long period of peace in which they could redirect their resources and collective intellect to begin solving the age old problems afflicting humanity--poverty overseas, environmental distress, long term energy sources, disease, hunger, and so on.
For the ten years immediately after the Cold War, things seemed to be moving in a favorable direction (with an occasional hicuup). The Americans began reshaping their economy, drastically drawing down military forces (forces were cut in half, basically), and gearing up for a global economy in which their wealth and technology could be shared for the good of all humanity.
Then, Islam attacked. And thus began WW IV. The era of peace ended almost as soon as it had begun. This outcome was intensely frustrating to all Americans. Many, in their frustration, blamed (and continue to blame) President Bush and Prime Minister Blair for stirring things up.
But Americans are now waking up to the fact that there will never be peace in the world as long as there is Islam. Islam is attacking, and bacause of their immutable Koranic scripture, will continue to attack, regardless of what Americans say or do.
Islam does not believe in "live and let live." Islam does not tolerate or respect other cultures and religions. Islam rejects democracy and the rule of secular law.
Islam treats American generosity with contempt, as if it were jizya payments. Islam responds to American gestures of friendship with either scorn, or else taquiyya (deception) and kitman (lying). Islam treats American self-restraint as weakness to be exploited.
Americans are learning that Islam is not a religion at all, but a narcissistic cult dedicated to capturing physical territory, subjugating populations, and looting civilization.
Unlike Islamic tyrannies, no one commands the American populace. The government works for the people, not the other way around. There is no "submission" in America. Individual Americans are studying Islam, because it is the self-declared enemy of all free men. And they are finding out the true ugliness and viciousness of that perverted ideology.
One additional characteristic of Americans is that they are slow to anger. I can tell you, they are getting angry. I am angry. The Yanks are coming.
Dont be so ignorent. If you live in america look around you. Turn on your TV. The Christian Faith has been under the same scrutiny for hundreds of years. Jesus was crucified for his faith and his teachings. The point that your missing is that when a religion like Christianity is criticized it usually ends up in the intelegent conversation or a CALM argument about the religion. Criticizing Islam only brings about VIOLENCE and RAGE as your people have proven in the past week or so. You claim Islam to be a true and noble religion but yet you cease to show us what you preach. Actions speak louder then words my freind and by your peoples actions all we see is hate, death, violence, oppression, amoung other things. If your going to lecture us about the Bible i suggest that you take a good look 1st at what you people are doing in the name is God. Beheadings, Suicide, Murder, Racism the list goes on. Its time Muslims stop acting like babies and stop blaming the rest of the FREE world for your problems. You have only put your selves in such a low state in humaity. Blame your leaders, Blame your Prophet, Blame your Allah! For Abraham, Isac and Jacobs God said he will bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel. For centuries the Arab world has done nothing but hate Jews and Israel. Yet you still wonder why your people suffer.
GrimReaper says: "It is interesting that we need to know who started it first and grasp words from religious text to justify our actions."
From that perspective, it does seem senseless to argue "who started it?". But we can look at what initiates every cycle of violence by looking at stretches in time where there is peace. Given a peaceful state, what changes it to a violent one? Islam contains characteristics such that Muslims following it are obligated to take a peaceful situation and turn it into a violent one. Someone criticizes the prophet--a non-violent act--and Muslims according to their religion must respond by punishing (indeed, killing) the critic. Muslims are lacking in non-violent means of solving problems and responding to criticism. They have to appeal to force, authority, sympathy, etc. So we can say who started it, and it is almost always Muslims who change a peaceful state into a violent one. Note the banner at the top of this thread, which likens Free Expression to terror.
Thanks Mat Guy,
But your description more than hammers home the point I was making about Palestinans without even trying. You serve our task well, and you will be rewarded.
Disbelief is the worst crime in Islam, worse than killing a Muslim. Slogans such as on the banner held by the Muslim woman at the top of this thread, referring to free expression (of disbelief--i.e., the cartoons) as terrorism (involving killing people) illustrate this principle. These hard-line believers listen to their cleric, and the cleric takes the Koran seriously.
The caption on the sign says it all -- Equating "Freedom of Expression" in the West to "terrorism" is a grave lie, and utterly profane.
Such insidious distortions of reality seem to be a necessary component in Muslim thinking -- their mindset apparently requires this kind of distortion, as well as a staggering number of other lies and insane departures from reality in order to maintain Islam's sense of victimhood and righteousness...
"One ponders the question: Of all the professed religions of the world... WHY has Islam become the chief and sole obsession of so many Americans? Is it purely because of the events of September 11, or are there other reasons? What motivates so many people that are not Muslim to spend countless hours researching Islam if they want nothing to do with it?"
Stendec did an admirable job describing the reasons. I would add that if I could make islam dissappear in an instant, and erase the entire ignoble 1400-year history of your wretched cult, and bring back all the civilizations it crushed, I would be so very happy to do so, and never think about islam again.
(Sorry for not responding to the rest of the crap you posted, since I routinely scroll through without reading it)
if you stand for freedom of speech, please sign it and pass it along.. we need to show the world (especially our emasculated world leaders) that we will not be intimidated or driven into silence by a bunch of backward-A$$ loonies.
"Or maybe how his trip with the angel Gabriel may have been one of his epileptic episodes. He was rumored by historians to be a possible epileptic.
Ouch!!! The truth hurts,don't it?"
Posted by: Ironman Hondo
If you research in the bible, it states that a epileptic fit is a form of demonic possesion, although perhaps indirectly.
As modern tech has looked into the epileptic, they discovered that the same area of the brain that is active during a sezure , is the same as during prayer.
Such knowledge was unknown during the bible times, and adds to the bible's status of a true book, to those who can accept it.
Hatshepsut wrote; "...My beloveds, I give these few passages to you as an example of the deception, dishonesty, and twisted purpose of those who attack you here, who spend all of their energies and exhaust their knowledge and resources attacking Muslims and what we believe, without looking at what they claim to believe themselves.
_____________
So the Pharaoh chronicles the transgressions of Old Covenant characters - so? From a Christian perspective you are completely missing the point, that all of mankind (including Hatshepsut) falls short of God's glory. That is why we need a Redeemer Shep, as a vicarious atonement for our sins. My beliefs don't hang on fallible men, but the on risen Messiah. Stick your nose back in the book and find one transgression attributed to Christ. Then read his teachings which are in stark contrast to the vindictive and legalistic nature of the Koran.
Freedom of speech is "terrorism" to all oppressive tyrants. The one thing they DO NOT want anyone to do is think for themselves and voice their God-given opinions. Tyrants and despots only want slaves who submit.
"hatshepsut", you said "...funny, they are not interested in converting the atheists, wiccans or satanists". Wrong. God wants every person to be saved and come to an understanding of who His son, Jesus Christ is. What you fail to understand in your reading of the bible is that while the bible records Lot being seduced by his daughters, it does not at any time attempt to justify this sin or say that Lot was right in doing it. It simply records it as a historical fact, stating that the way certain tribes in the middle East began was through inbreeding. It likewise records David's SIN as historical fact. It does not justify it or attempt to use it as an example of the way to live. The same applies to Noah. Nowhere in the Old or New Testaments can you show us where this behavior is justified. Rather the bible paints a true picture of these people, warts and all as they say, and shows that they all sinned and fell short of the glory of God, as have all of us. Remember also that Moses was a murderer, as was King David. King Solomon had multiple wives. They were all sinners. The bible records these things as history. Nowhere does God say that what they did was right. That is why men need a saviour, the same saviour, The Lord Jesus Christ, whom the Q'uran and Mohammed rejected. God showed that man would need a sacrifice for his sins when he told Abraham to sacrifice his son on the mountain. Abraham was prepared to do as God commanded, but God intervened at the last moment and provided a sacrifice Himself, so the boy's life would be spared by substitution. This was a foreshadowing of how Christ would have to die on the cross for the sins of all mankind, which the Q'uran says never happened. Jesus Christ called God His father in heaven. The Q'uran says this is blasphemy because "Allah has no sons", so the Q'uran is caling Jesus Christ a liar. If Jesus Christ was a liar then He cannot be a prophet and the Q'uran is wrong for calling Him a prophet. Either way the Quran is wrong. Many Muslims have realized this and have become Christians. Maybe that fact is what has you so upset. You have failed to defend Islam, and you have taken the name of a pagan Egyptian queen who worshipped false gods. When you are weighed on the day of judgement you will fall short unless you repent and accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.
Your problem is that you may not study the WHOLE Bible. You've got to also read the New Testament as well. Not just the Old Testament. Just like I read the WHOLE koran. But then, being a Muslim, you won't. You Muslims are too afraid of the truth.Posted by: Ironman Hondo [TypeKey Profile Page] at February 10, 2006 02:05 PM
Ironman Hondo you have it nailed on the head! the muslims must think we are as stupid as they are.. you got to read the whole Koran and if you only read the "Old Testament" you are leaving out the most important aspect of the Christian World! l surely think when some honest muslim learns to read, he cannot logically remain a muslim?
Heartening to see a Channel 9 phone poll (Australia). When asked "should multiculturalism in Australia be brought to an end" Result was 93% yes, 7% no. East is East and West is West and never the twain shall meet .. Rudyard Kipling. I suggest replacing the word East with Islam.
Drudge doesn't appear to be selling them, but the vendor attached to the story, is: http://www.shopmetrospy.com/
Thanks to Matt Drudge and Metrospy for not bowing to the crackpot Islamists maniacs who choose to behave like diapered adolescents instead of adults.
The ridicule reserved for them is established, and it is on the move...
The actions of these 'protestors' have opened a world wide can of worms for them, because this time they have gone too far over the line, telling all of us what to say and do.
Although there are still some cowards who dhimmi up to these vermin, the resistence to their barbaric behavior this time around appears to be strong, and growing.
Keep slamming them, they've earned it. The truth is not bigotry......The truth is just the truth.
Isn't it sad that the woman holding the sign who can't see out thinks she's free? Like I've said before, in Islam, up is down, black is white, murder is love, truth is the ultimate lie.
Scribe10: we didn't "misunderstand" the Serbian Christians.
We deliberately ignored the muslim atrocities against the christians.
Then, when Milosevic had enough and started removing the muslim murderers from his country, all western hell breaks loose.
You see, it's politically correct to kill christians. But it is suicide to defend against muslims.
The constant muslim murders of christian villagers goes way back. Hitler faced the situation and waffled. Mussolini sent in the troops to stop the muslims.
Much of the populace in former Yugoslavia desceneds from the remnants of the Byzantines. That's how far this enmity goes back. So when the muslims mounted an effort to commit some genocide in Bosnia, we backed the muslims when the christians defended themselves.
Makes any thinking man sick and ashamed of his politically correct country.
Nice to type my first comment on this website!! The past few days brought a lot to discuss. I dont like talking religion, but as a rare species that visits the church once in a while, i felt a lil curious about the cartoons and the following drama. Let me explan my view of the freedom of speech.
1. freedom to judge if some thing is right or wrong based on my knowledge
2. freedom to express happiness, anger, pain and so forth.
Judging by the so called "mohamed cartoons" that i found in the danish daily and other websites, the first thing that comes to my mind is, all this is no trait of a civilized human society. I mean people should criticize each other's actions but not with the intention of hurting a community. We should express our view of the islamic rules that we find wrong. But the cartoons published are meant just to disgrace the musilms. As some one rightly pointed out, what if some one pisses on the american flag in public? should we call it freedom of expression? Is the American judiciary gonna say its freedom of expression? the answer is NO.
I found the people who visit these sites a lot more different from the normal people i see around. Almost every one i i talked to had the opinion that the cartoons printed in the danish newspaper was just to disturb peace and create tension. Here people have the view that the muslims should not protest at the cartoons printed or that are going to be printed in the future. I feel, protest is also a way of expressing your thoughts or feelings. So if we can print those cartoons, then they can protest. No, Im not gonna protest unless my cartoon gets printed haha..
My question to the people who printed those cartoons, is WHY DO YOU GUYS WANNA DISTURB THE PEACE OF THE WORLD?? Its interesting to note that its all is started by us (the so called civilized society)
RE: My question to the people who printed those cartoons, is WHY DO YOU GUYS WANNA DISTURB THE PEACE OF THE WORLD?? Its interesting to note that its all is started by us (the so called civilized society)
Let me correct you as these same pictures were published last Sept and NOTHING happened.
It is apparent that someone (or they) are using the cartoons as a pretext to violence and antagonize the West. Maybe Condo Rice was correct when she stated the Syria and Iran have orchestrated said events.
Everyone is so obsessed with these stupid cartoons while Iran merrily works on it's
nuclear bomb.
Yeeeah. I'm not Christian. Not even remotely. But honest to several Gods, these people need to calm the hell down.
And Hatshepsut, while one wouldn't want to follow the example of someone who cheats on his wife or is incestuous, it begs the question....
Why would I want to approve of or follow the example of a religion that brutalises women, perverts the very notion of free thinking, let alone free speech, and approves the wanton destruction of children, those who are our last, best hope for peace? And yes, before you ask, I detest Catholicism, as a hypocritical, child-molester-approving religion. What about Islam is something that we, as an "enlightened" nation, should approve of, or NOT say that we disaprove of? While your points about Christianity were (somewhat) valid, let's not forget that the Bible is little more than a collection of fables, the morals of which are lessons on how to and NOT to live your life.
Hatshepsut:
Your posts are too long and boring! However, you have freedom of speech here - did you notice that? Are you then indulging in western terrorism? (Islam's view,,not the west's!)
Further to you post:
As has been said before the Bible has undergone a lot of scrutiny and debate, and I for one,,,and sure I am not alone,,,do not take everything in it as an indisputable fact, or literally. Consider the time when these old Books were written and by whom. I include, absolutely, the koran here. In fact I believe it was dictated as Mohamud couldn't write?? Yes? Who knows what later interpretations came about?
As someone pointed out, in different words, Lot didn't start a religion. So no one followed and glorified his sins. These people were not deified.They have no specific group of followers.
Therefore it is intellectually dishonest to compare them to your prophet. If you then say Mohamud wasn't deified,,well the recent events seem to suggest otherwise. You are all acting as if he is your god - look at the rage everywhere!!
He is supposed to be your prophet,,not your god.
As for western interest in islam - well,,,,this came out of misguided tolerance; wanting to know about your culture...not just to put you all down but what we have seen isn't real good!!
I hope this cartoon fiasco comes back to bite those who started it. I do not mean the Danish. Islamonazis have used it as an excuse to wreak havoc yet again.The world can plainly see what idiots are out there, finally! This may be a good thing!
Cathkins:
thanks for the result of the multicultural poll: I missed it!
Terrorism: The use of terrorizing methods. 2:The state of fear and submission so produced.
What the woman's sign says is true, from her Islamic viewpoint. Freedom of expression to her *would* be Western Terrorism. They are *afraid*, ladies and gentlemen! God grant that the pen will prove mightier than the sword!
Posted by Brian: "Almost every one i i talked to had the opinion that the cartoons printed in the danish newspaper was just to disturb peace and create tension."
Brian, those to whom you are talking are ignorant of the facts. Anyone who knows the least bit about the story knows the the Danish paper was testing the level of self censorship in the Danish society, based on the fact that cartoonists were paralyzed, by domestic fear of Muslim violence, into not illustrating a children's book on the life of Mohammed.
Posted by Brian: "My question to the people who printed those cartoons, is WHY DO YOU GUYS WANNA DISTURB THE PEACE OF THE WORLD?? Its interesting to note that its all is started by us (the so called civilized society)"
Brian, 9/11 disturbed the peace of the world. The bombing of the USS Cole disturbed the peace of the world. Beslan disturbed the peace of the world. 7/7 disturbed the peace of the world. Muslim attacks all over the world in the last decade have disturbed the peace of the world.
Apparently, you and those to whom you routinely talk would have us all not notice who made those attacks, and what inspired them to do so. The answers are 1) Muslims and 2) Islam.
Pissing on the American flag is protected by the First Amendment ("free speech"). Piss away!
No one watching think anything but that you were an incontinent dork.
For claiming this falsehood as a fact, you are either:
A) ignorant (unconscious of what your purport to speak of as the truth);
or:
B) a liar (spreading conscious untruths).
As to disturbing "the peace of the world", there never was any.
Ever. History is written in blood.
As the great Greek philospher Heraclitus noted 2500 years ago:
"Strife is king."
(Or, in newer lingo: "Dynamic struggle is the norm.")
He also said: "All is flux/Everything flows." and "You cannot step into the same river twice." A sharp fellah...
For there to be the "peace" you seek, everyone would have to be clones. Uninquisitive, even-tempered, unthinking, passive, bland zombies.
Or isn't that what Islam wishes from its people through the "submission" -of the free mind to an unfree dogma? Clones of the Koran.
The Danes, not being Muslim, are free to question the tenets of any so-called "prophet", especially if his teachings lead to hysterical violence and intolerance.
And they were wondering about the possibility of rabid reactions to even the mildest artwork (a children's book on the life of Mohammad whose author could not find one artist in Denmark wouuld did not fear for their life if they drew the book's pictures). The editorial cartoonists wanted to question this fear when they drew the cartoons. To see if Muslims were really so crazy as to riot over mere doodles.
(Sadly, they were. Overlooking the underlying cosmic joke: since no one knows what Mohammad looked like, how can the protestors claim that these cartoons represent "Mohammad"... but they are too simple-minded for understanding such religious subtleties.)
The cartoons themselves were a very mild form of satire, at best. Most were oblique to the point of being pointlessly bland. The "bomb turban" image, the one most vilified by the self-styled "iconoclasts", only reflects a reasonable critique by of the real, daily, bloody actions of Muslim terrorists. Maniacs for "Allah" who gaily use the Koran as their "Anarchist's Cookbook", quoting its suras to justifying sawing a tied-up poor guy's head off with a butcher's knife ...on t.v. ...while squealing "Allahu Akbar!" demonically over his gurgling cries of pain. (The "peace of Allah" no doubt?)
This is the view we in the free world get of Mohammedans in action.
Self-declared Islam at its rawest and most active.
You look bad when you follow your beliefs most sincerely.
You aren't peaceful.
And the world is getting sick of the laughable hypocrisy.
Calm down the lunatics using your faith for a Juggernaut.
Or the West will be forced to overturn your death cart.
It's up to you.
We don't believe what you say ("peace"), because we see what you do ("terror").
You say "As some one rightly pointed out, what if some one pisses on the american flag in public? should we call it freedom of expression? Is the American judiciary gonna say its freedom of expression? the answer is NO."
Brian, the American judiciary does not agree with you. If you piss on the American flag in AMERICA you will be arrested, IF you do so in public. You will not be arrested for pissing on the flag, but for exposing your genitals in a public place.
Now, get this straight: The courts have already ruled on the situation you pose. Destruction of the flag is considered protected speech. You an destroy the flag by burning, ripping, shreading, pissing, soiling, or in any other manner that satisfies your subjective need for expression.
Of course, it must be YOUR flag. You don't want to get arrested for stealing a neighbor's flag. And remember, don't take out your weenie in public.
Another caution: The American judiciary cannot protect your burning (or pissing on) the American flag in some other country. There you are on your own.
And get this straight too: We have freedom of speech and press PRECISELY so that we can express UNPOPULAR ideas. If we could only express those that YOU LIKED we would not be very free, would we. So, our freedom is to protect our ability to denigrate, ridicule, blaspheme, oppose, embarrass, and challenge anything and anyone and any idea.
Our only limits are to time, place, and manner, and these are required to be by the least intrusive means.
You want know why we are "obsessed" with knowing about muslims and islam??
Here's the deal: The Western world has established itself as superior to the muslim world for over a thousand years, because we do some things that you ignorant camel drivers don't do.
First, of course, we refrain from exposing our asses to the air half the day long. Don't you know that all that ass-raising causes blood to rush to the head and makes you rock back and forth when you sit up to read? We find it fascinating that some sand shuffling idiots haven't figured that out yet, but we all keep thinking it will happen any minute. So we have placed bets with each other on when it will dawn on you all, and we want to watch closely so that we can collect on our wagers.
Secondly, we base our culture on something other than the demented ramblings of a syphilitic pedophile. We have a hard time understanding why a culture such as yours would be so eager to embrace such obvious idiocy, but we are always looking for ways to improve our marketing of the abundance of products that we in the West actually manage to produce, and we figure that if somebody can crack the code on how you guys have been sold on this really stupid religion, then we can all make millions on the Perpetuity Scheme of Islamo-marketing.
Third, and probably most importantly, we in the West study EVERYTHING terrible. We have whole bodies of science dedicated to studying poisonious plants, snakes, spiders, viruses, bacteria, falling objects, traffic congestion, and other deadly or dangerous things. We also devote a lot of public health funds to studying psychological illnesses, psychoses, personality disorders, neuroticisms, and compulsions. The islamic world offers a huge laboratory for such studies, especially in the area of narcissistic personality disorder, borderline personality, and persistent delusion.
Then, of course, there is the criminological goldmine. Islam offers the student a universe of murder, arson, rape, mayhem, infanticide, fratricide, assault, fraud, and larceny. The student of crime has a virtual fountain of available cases in any subject, and can sort by multiple variables without seriously diminishing the sample size below statistical significance.
In short, islam offers the student of the absurd, the insane, and the criminal, with the best and most complete source of material available anywhere on Earth.
I took your advise and wrote to the Publisher of The Roanoke Times, Roanoke, VA. This is the reply:
----- Original Message -----
From: Wendy Zomparelli
To: (removed)
Cc: Mike Riley ; Tommy Denton ; Carole Tarrant
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 5:35 PM
Subject: RE: Freedom of Speech
Dear (removed),
I've decided not to publish the cartoons you mention on the basis that we would not publish cartoons depicting Jesus in a negative way. This isn't about freedom of the press; it's about what is appropriate for The Roanoke Times. As long as I am publisher, we will not denigrate any major religious figure or deity in editorial cartoons. Similarly, there are many graphic photographs that other newspapers print that we feel are inappropriate for our newspaper.
What happens elsewhere immaterial; I don't think we should allow our behavior to be set by the standards of the violent hordes rioting in Middle Eastern streets.
That image needs to be made into a t-shirt.
I was just pondering last night how the self-righteous and thin-skinned bunch who are apparently the majority of Muslims worldwide will equate Western criticism/satire with violence, and then respond with the real thing.
That niqab-clad lady's placard sums it up perfectly.
Lady, if Western freedom of expression was all the "terrorism" the world had to worry about, that'd be fine by me.
Poor Muslims are showing how weak they really are, and they're too stupid to even realize it....
Why is it that all the signs I see on US TV are like "Shame on you, Western Media." Why do they not show this and this is still a mild statement. Why don't they show all the "behead all those who offend the prophet" signs.
Poor Muslimah - she lost her eyesight when someone mistook her for a letterbox.
Afterthought: The unacceptability of being offended in current times actually increases violence in the world.
Think about all the gang violence that revolves around being "dissed," especially where shoes are damaged. Then there's schoolyard fights, family feuds (not involving Richard Dawson), and of course, the cartoon rage.
Making offenses seem more "offensive" in an attempt to produce a sugar-coated society raises the bar for the level of response.
No wonder "anger management" is such a hot industry as society becomes more politically incorrect. We're merely lowering our threshhold of pain.
Oops-- that next-to-last sentence should read as society becomes more politically correct.
"Broca's area" in the left frontal lobe of the brain is still waiting for the caffeine. ;)
Hey, one of you muslim apologists please link a site that tallies all the thousands of muslim deaths free speech has caused?
"Muhammaed is a pig!"
Oops, I just killed 40 muslim schoolchildren in Pakistan... dang my wild-ass free speech.
My beloveds (Malik and Musa)
May the Creator of the heavens and the earth reward your valiant strivings in the den of inequity of the shaytin.
One ponders the question: Of all the professed religions of the world... WHY has Islam become the chief and sole obsession of so many Americans? Is it purely because of the events of September 11, or are there other reasons? What motivates so many people that are not Muslim to spend countless hours researching Islam if they want nothing to do with it?
Be sure, this is a dedicated, well-orchestrated, totally planned campaign being waged to disuade as many people as possible from their chosen religion (funny, they are not interested in converting the atheists, wiccans or satanists), and turn back as many Muslims as they can from their religion. If this were not so, you would be able to engage in intelligent dialogue with these people and discuss and compare religion respectfully without trading insults.
The tendency to apply today's standards to acts that occurred more than 1,400 years ago is also suspect, given the fact that Muslims are accused of living in the past and following a religion that is archaic and obsolete. The bible, revered by millions as irrefutable truth from God, is never put under similar scrutiny.
For example, Prophet Lot is reported to have slept with his two daughters after the destruction of Sodom and Gomorah at their urging, fearing that the world needed to be repopulated and they were the only survivors as seen in these direct quotes from the bible, NIV:
"Lot and His Daughters" NIV, Genesis 19:30-36
30 Lot and his two daughters left Zoar and settled in the mountains, for he was afraid to stay in Zoar. He and his two daughters lived in a cave. 31 One day the older daughter said to the younger, "Our father is old, and there is no man around here to lie with us, as is the custom all over the earth. 32 Let's get our father to drink wine and then lie with him and preserve our family line through our father."
33 That night they got their father to drink wine, and the older daughter went in and lay with him. He was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
34 The next day the older daughter said to the younger, "Last night I lay with my father. Let's get him to drink wine again tonight, and you go in and lie with him so we can preserve our family line through our father." 35 So they got their father to drink wine that night also, and the younger daughter went and lay with him. Again he was not aware of it when she lay down or when she got up.
36 So both of Lot's daughters became pregnant by their father. 37 The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab [g]; he is the father of the Moabites of today. 38 The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi [h] ; he is the father of the Ammonites of today.
Should we question the morals of Prophet Lot and his daughters for engaging in this obvious act of incest?
Still more distressing passages of immorality can be found in Genesis 38:13-18. I challenge anyone anywhere to find a single passage that says Muhammad slept with his daughters, committed adultery, or fornicated even once outside of marriage:
13 When Tamar was told, "Your father-in-law is on his way to Timnah to shear his sheep," 14 she took off her widow's clothes, covered herself with a veil to disguise herself, and then sat down at the entrance to Enaim, which is on the road to Timnah. For she saw that, though Shelah had now grown up, she had not been given to him as his wife.
15 When Judah saw her, he thought she was a prostitute, for she had covered her face. 16 Not realizing that she was his daughter-in-law, he went over to her by the roadside and said, "Come now, let me sleep with you." "And what will you give me to sleep with you?" she asked.
17 "I'll send you a young goat from my flock," he said. "Will you give me something as a pledge until you send it?" she asked.
18 He said, "What pledge should I give you?"
"Your seal and its cord, and the staff in your hand," she answered. So he gave them to her and slept with her, and she became pregnant by him. 19 After she left, she took off her veil and put on her widow's clothes again.
And in the following passages, David lies with Bathshebah, a black hittite woman, the wife of Uriah, plots for him to be killed in battle, and earns the wrath of God. Notice that the prophets of the bible did not shy away from killing and warfare. Also notice that in 2 Samuel 11:4, Bathshebah lay with David after ritually "purifying" herself from "uncleanness". Why was she considered "unclean"?:
2 Samuel 11:1-26 (NIV)
David and Bathsheba
1 In the spring, at the time when kings go off to war, David sent Joab out with the king's men and the whole Israelite army. They destroyed the Ammonites and besieged Rabbah. But David remained in Jerusalem.
2 One evening David got up from his bed and walked around on the roof of the palace. From the roof he saw a woman bathing. The woman was very beautiful, 3 and David sent someone to find out about her. The man said, "Isn't this Bathsheba, the daughter of Eliam and the wife of Uriah the Hittite?" 4 Then David sent messengers to get her. She came to him, and he slept with her. (She had purified herself from her uncleanness.) Then [a] she went back home. 5 The woman conceived and sent word to David, saying, "I am pregnant."
6 So David sent this word to Joab: "Send me Uriah the Hittite." And Joab sent him to David. 7 When Uriah came to him, David asked him how Joab was, how the soldiers were and how the war was going. 8 Then David said to Uriah, "Go down to your house and wash your feet." So Uriah left the palace, and a gift from the king was sent after him. 9 But Uriah slept at the entrance to the palace with all his master's servants and did not go down to his house.
10 When David was told, "Uriah did not go home," he asked him, "Haven't you just come from a distance? Why didn't you go home?"
11 Uriah said to David, "The ark and Israel and Judah are staying in tents, and my master Joab and my lord's men are camped in the open fields. How could I go to my house to eat and drink and lie with my wife? As surely as you live, I will not do such a thing!"
12 Then David said to him, "Stay here one more day, and tomorrow I will send you back." So Uriah remained in Jerusalem that day and the next. 13 At David's invitation, he ate and drank with him, and David made him drunk. But in the evening Uriah went out to sleep on his mat among his master's servants; he did not go home.
14 In the morning David wrote a letter to Joab and sent it with Uriah. 15 In it he wrote, "Put Uriah in the front line where the fighting is fiercest. Then withdraw from him so he will be struck down and die."
16 So while Joab had the city under siege, he put Uriah at a place where he knew the strongest defenders were. 17 When the men of the city came out and fought against Joab, some of the men in David's army fell; moreover, Uriah the Hittite died.
18 Joab sent David a full account of the battle. 19 He instructed the messenger: "When you have finished giving the king this account of the battle, 20 the king's anger may flare up, and he may ask you, 'Why did you get so close to the city to fight? Didn't you know they would shoot arrows from the wall? 21 Who killed Abimelech son of Jerub-Besheth [b] ? Didn't a woman throw an upper millstone on him from the wall, so that he died in Thebez? Why did you get so close to the wall?' If he asks you this, then say to him, 'Also, your servant Uriah the Hittite is dead.' "
22 The messenger set out, and when he arrived he told David everything Joab had sent him to say. 23 The messenger said to David, "The men overpowered us and came out against us in the open, but we drove them back to the entrance to the city gate. 24 Then the archers shot arrows at your servants from the wall, and some of the king's men died. Moreover, your servant Uriah the Hittite is dead."
25 David told the messenger, "Say this to Joab: 'Don't let this upset you; the sword devours one as well as another. Press the attack against the city and destroy it.' Say this to encourage Joab."
26 When Uriah's wife heard that her husband was dead, she mourned for him. 27 After the time of mourning was over, David had her brought to his house, and she became his wife and bore him a son. But the thing David had done displeased the LORD.
Should the bible as a result be viewed as a manual of incest and debauchery because of these passages? What do these passages tell us about the lowly status of women during these times?
And what sense shall we make of the following biblical passages about the sons of Prophet Noah? It has been a long-standing dispute that these passages infer that the black-skinned peoples of Africa are the descendents of Ham, the Canaanites, cursed by Noah to be the eternal "slaves" of their brothers (see Genesis 9:24-27). If this is not true, why haven't these passages been stricken from the bible, as they would have Muslims strike offensive passages from the qur'an? Note also that Noah is reported to have lived 950 YEARS, when the average life expectancy of a human today is about 75 years. I don't hear anyone challenging the validity of this claim.
The Sons of Noah (NIV) Genesis 9:18-28
18 The sons of Noah who came out of the ark were Shem, Ham and Japheth. (Ham was the father of Canaan.) 19 These were the three sons of Noah, and from them came the people who were scattered over the earth.
20 Noah, a man of the soil, proceeded [a] to plant a vineyard. 21 When he drank some of its wine, he became drunk and lay uncovered inside his tent. 22 Ham, the father of Canaan, saw his father's nakedness and told his two brothers outside. 23 But Shem and Japheth took a garment and laid it across their shoulders; then they walked in backward and covered their father's nakedness. Their faces were turned the other way so that they would not see their father's nakedness.
24 When Noah awoke from his wine and found out what his youngest son had done to him, 25 he said,
"Cursed be Canaan!
The lowest of slaves
will he be to his brothers."
26 He also said,
"Blessed be the LORD, the God of Shem!
May Canaan be the slave of Shem. [b]
27 May God extend the territory of Japheth [c] ;
may Japheth live in the tents of Shem,
and may Canaan be his [d] slave."
28 After the flood Noah lived 350 years. 29 Altogether, Noah lived 950 years, and then he died.
My beloveds, I give these few passages to you as an example of the deception, dishonesty, and twisted purpose of those who attack you here, who spend all of their energies and exhaust their knowledge and resources attacking Muslims and what we believe, without looking at what they claim to believe themselves.
May God the Creator grant you peace and mercy and forgiveness of your sins. Salutations of peace to Muhammad and all the prophets and companions of heaven.
Dear Mussoli,
As the spokesman for the PADL (Pig Anti-Defamation League) I am expressing my outrage at your association of pigs with Muhammad. Please note that pigs have never started wars, started a death cult, enslaved and murdered people or reduced women to the status of objects. Pigs are definitely not war monging, enslaving pedophiles. Your statements defame pigs around the world and can not be tolerated.
Sincerely,
Piggly Porcine III
:-)
A short little clip worth watching;
"Taqiyaa"
http://media.putfile.com/Taqiyya78
Moose
A MUST READ couresy Ali Sina at FFI.
"courtesy" that is... dang keyboard can't spell and is sometimes dyslexic...
Aren't these people then "western terrorists" themselves because they have the freedom of expression to say that "Freedom of expression is Western terrorism"? Or that they can even have demonstrations such as these? Hmmm.....
Hey Unbrilde, Don't insult stupid people like that. Calling an Islamofeces stupid is like giving them first class statis!!! Moving them up the evolutionary chain to stupid.
Post the Cartoons Everyone!
I urge everyone to post the cartoons of Mohammed on their webpages. I was appalled that the University of PEI has removed copies of the student paper The Cadre, which published these cartoons:
http://cadre.upei.ca/
Hatshepsut,
"But the thing David had done displeased the LORD".
The reason Americans are so hot to criticize Islam is because it, like other religions, needs criticism. Christianity and Judaism, as well as their adherents, are criticized constantly in the west, as well as in the Muslim world, not to mention in the Quran.
Muhammad did so many things that are immoral by modern standards, yet across the Muslim world there is no self-criticism, and in the west we have been taught by our multicultural ethos that we cannot criticize. This is why so many are reprinting the cartoons - we not only have the right to criticize Islam, there is a pent up need. How can the west be safe from Islamic terror if we do not study the very texts that the terrorists use to justify their actions? How can the Muslim world advance beyond its backwardness, beset by misogyny, political violence and tyranny, when this sacred cow, Islam, is really an albatross?
Many Americans who have read Islam's canonical texts have come to the same conclusion as Ali Sina - Islam, divorced from its violent prohibition against criticism, is intellectually weak. Now, with "cartoon rage", Islam's priviledged position in the west is at an end.
There can be no question that the events described, and some morals propigated in the Old Testament, are problematic. But how can this tu quoque work, when the critic of Islam you want to distract is actually an atheist, whose morality is based on "do unto others as you would have them do unto you"?
Quijybo
And there you have it. The irresistible force of Islamic belief meets an immovable object of Western principle.
Turns out Huntington's little thesis wasn't so much hyperbole after all.
Good thing that most Islamic countries are so feeble that projecting force more than a couple of miles beyond their borders isn't a realistic option.
However, those that have, or are in the process of acquiring, nuclear weapons technology should be of grave concern to the entire West at this point.
The metaphorical shite is rapidly approaching the proverbial fan, I'm afraid.
hatshepsut -
You want to know one fundamental difference between what you argue and what is reality? The difference is the regard to which you hold the "prophet" (or maybe it's "profit") Muhammad. No Christian anywhere in the world says "You know, I choose to immulate the life of the "prophet" Lot or the "prophet" Noah. No Christian says that. Anywhere. Ok, so Lot got drunk and was essentially raped by his daughters. Ok, fine, it says that directly. Does a Christian anywhere in the world then say "you know, if I get drunk and my children have sex with me, everything is fine. There is precident there from the "prophet" Lot and is therefore lawful".
No.
On the same side of the coin, Muslims choose to "live by the example of the 'prophet' Muhammad", a man who raped, pillaged, plundered, and burned villages, cities, and entire families. Why would you want to live by the example of such a man? Why is he praiseworthy at all?
No christians anywhere comoe up with sayings of "praise Noah" or "praise Moses" or anything of the sort.
Just because stories of immorality or destruction exist in both the Koran and the Bible, that does not make Islam and Christianity co-equals. It makes them nothing of the sort. What matters is people's actions. The actions to the adherents of that religion speak volumes about the religion as a whole.
Muslims fail because Islam is a falure.
And so is the "prophet" (profit) Muhammad.
Hapshetsut has emerged from the woodwork again on the occassion of her picture appearing on this thread.
One site was done by a bunch of Danes with many
Mohammed cartoons...the one I really enjoyed was the toilet paper roll with his picture on every sheet. That's where the big Mo belongs is down the crapper. Now that's free wiping! Too bad we can't post pics here as I'd love to share.
Another great pic was out of Legos with Moham
doing Aiesha. What a great prophet...Him and Michael Jackson should join ranks.
My husband was really struck with that Lego spoof. I use a lot of Lego to play out Bible stories with the children. Do Mosques have Friday school teachers? That's one story I wouldn't want to see demonstrated. For children 6+
Hashepsut
You have made some logical and some esegetical mistakes in your post:
the logical ones:
L1)you make use of a rethorical form that is called "tu quoque". That means, instead of replying to the issue under investigation, you prefer to lauch some accusations vs your talking partner. This is a typical way of refusing to go into your details
L2) you say that there is a clear evidence of a coordinated assault vs islam. Where are the facts? You should be aware that there are daily insults on all religions in the western media (and i the Muslim world?). Why should be Islam the exception? As Muslims think their religion is the true one of course other think the same. The Aquinas said that reasoning by making reference to "the power above" is the weakest argument that one can bring. Are you not fed up with all these conspiracy theories?
The esegetical ones:
E1) You take as exemple the OT. Ok, but it is soooo strange that you don't mention anything about the New one...Why is it? Do you know the meaning of the Messiah for Christians? and the implications of his coming? You shurely know otherwise you would not be able to differenciate between Christians and yews.
E2) You surely know that no-one (it has been made although by western scholars) in the Islamic world has ever attempted to utilize the "Formkritik" to analyze the Qur'an (it is current for the OT and the NT)...but somehow you "try" (euphemism) to do this with some parts of the OT. Strange at least. You make here the mistake to read the Bible as it were the Qur'an. That means that you cannot differenciate between the two. You should know that the Bible is compiled by 50+ books and for each one you should know what kind of literature it is.
E3) that means that you try to do a plain vanilla job without knowing if it is a fable, a story, a myth a biography or something else. You should know that -for Christinas- the books of the Bible are inspired and that the Bible has not been dictated word by word as Muslims think it is in the Qur'an.
E4) for quoting the Bible -opposite to the Qur'an- you should know (as already told) the kind of book, the kind of literature it represents, and especially, you have to put it into the context. What does it want to say? For this reason the two books are not comparable.
The issue to be discussed here is too complicated, but if you are looking for deep analysis and for theological answers on this subjects, the best web site I've found till now is answering-islam.org
This is right up there with the "Democracy go to hell" placard carried by a demented Muslim protester in London recently. These are the true sentiments of "mainstream" Muslims. That is why they will never successfully integrate into Western societies and will forever pose a grave threat to the peace and well-being of the citizens of Western host nations to these hostile immigrants.
We do not need to tolerate the presence in our countries of the hate-filled ideology of Islam any more than we need to tolerate cannibalism that is also a sacred creed of some primative tribes in the desolate corners of the globe.
hatshepsut -
You want to know one fundamental difference between what you argue and what is reality? The difference is the regard to which you hold the "prophet" (or maybe it's "profit") Muhammad. No Christian anywhere in the world says "You know, I choose to immulate the life of the "prophet" Lot or the "prophet" Noah. No Christian says that. Anywhere. Ok, so Lot got drunk and was essentially raped by his daughters. Ok, fine, it says that directly. Does a Christian anywhere in the world then say "you know, if I get drunk and my children have sex with me, everything is fine. There is precident there from the "prophet" Lot and is therefore lawful".
No.
On the same side of the coin, Muslims choose to "live by the example of the 'prophet' Muhammad", a man who raped, pillaged, plundered, and burned villages, cities, and entire families. Why would you want to live by the example of such a man? Why is he praiseworthy at all?
No christians anywhere comoe up with sayings of "praise Noah" or "praise Moses" or anything of the sort.
Just because stories of immorality or destruction exist in both the Koran and the Bible, that does not make Islam and Christianity co-equals. It makes them nothing of the sort. What matters is people's actions. The actions to the adherents of that religion speak volumes about the religion as a whole.
Muslims fail because Islam is a falure.
And so is the "prophet" (profit) Muhammad.
"freedom of expression is western terrorism"
"war is peace"
"freedom is slavery"
"IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH"
Now, more than ever, are the writings of George Orwell so relevant to the modern world.
It is staggering that they also apply to the doublethink mind of Islam.
I don´t know if that is true or not, but I´ve read that a Muslim artist painted a naked Hindu Goddess. Hindu extremist become angry, but at the end, it was considered freedom of speech. No riots, nobody death.India didn´t made any boycott, didn´t need an apologized from all Muslim community. It could be double standard???
The words on the banner don't make any sense. I must assume that there's a deficiency there in thinking abilities.
Also, the fingers on the hand holding the banner look very thick for a female hand. Would a male dress like that? If so, there must be a reason -- to remain anonymous ... to protect his honour?
"Freedom of expression is western terrorism"-
a banner held by a burkha clad female (?) somewhere in a civilized western country, February 2006
You gotta sit back, take a deep breath and let it sink in: We have permitted people to settle among us, who hate us, who teach their children to hate us and who want to kill us if we don't submit to their perverted cult.
We've had to put up with 9/11, 7/7, Bali 1 & Bali 2, Beslan, Madrid, the French intifadah, Koran-rage, cartoon rage, we didn't kill any Muslims (backlash) and instead of calling their bluff, most, if not all western governments weasel and lie about the threat of Islam.
Our leaders are fearful of the Islamic terror and their assassins: instead of raiding the mosques, cutting all support for them and kicking them out of Eurabia, they prostrate themselves in front of this threat at the expense of the indigenous population...
The times they are a'changing...
hatshepsut misses a key point in all her (?) biblical click-and-paste. None of the figures referenced (Lot, David, Noah) are regarded as prophets in Hebrew tradition. That's strictly a Muslim take. Thus your claims that "prophets" do this or that are immaterial.
Their actions have been criticized since time immemorial by Hebrew prophets (the prophet Nathan castigated David in the name of the Lord) or later commentators. Noah is regarded by the Talmudic rabbis as a man who was "righteous in his time", i.e. he doesn't look so hot compared to the Patriarchs or prophets, in part because while he built the ark as the Lord commanded, he didn't do enough to turn his neighbors away from sin. The incest of Lot's daughters gave rise to two nations regarded as bastards in later scripture.
So there's plenty of criticism of the Bible, even in the way-back before modern critical study of the texts became an academic discipline in 19th century Europe. The Koran virtually cries out for similar study...no reason that it should be exempt.
OT, but from another thread, if anybody wants a real "Godfather" episode in the Bible, check out I Kings Ch. 2, 1-12 for David's deathbed scene, where he instructs Solomon on the "unfinished business" to be dealt with.
Hey Hatshepsup,
The Bible never hides the fact that man will do things that are outside the will of Jehovah-Elyon, the Most High God. Or God the Father. The passages that you posted are not attempts to decieve. If it were, you wouldn't be quoting them, because they would not have been there in the first place.
That curse that Noah decreed on Canaan was never honoured by God the Father. If it had then the Hebrews would not have been made slaves by the Egyptians. The Egyptians were the decendants of Canaan, just incase you didn't know.
And David was punished by God the Father for the death of Uriah. His son by Bathsheba, Uriah's wife, was born sick and died. Plus David's own son, Absolom, tried to kill him. David's sin against Uriah brought a curse on the house of David.
Then Lot and his daugthers. I guess that you're trying to say that the Bible condones insest. It dosen't. Once again, the Bible is just letting it be known that it happened. But look at how it happened. The daughters got Lot drunk!!! Thus why the Bible says that it is a sin to be a drunkard. It's not hidden from the light of day. It's there to be seen. To be READ!!!
Your problem is that you may not study the WHOLE Bible. You've got to also read the New Testament as well. Not just the Old Testament. Just like I read the WHOLE koran. But then, being a Muslim, you won't. You Muslims are too afraid of the truth.
Christianity never claimed to be a "religion of peace," Islam did. Or the followers of Islam did. The Bible tells of the many numerous wars that transpired between the Hebrews (Jews) and everyone else, including the Philestines or as they are known today, the Palestinians!!!
Now you can bring up Lot being drunk having illicit sexual intercorse with his daughters, but you Muslims overlook the fact that the false prophet Muhammad married a six year old little girl and had sex with her when she turned nine!!! At least Lots daughters were grown and had to get Lot drunk!!! Was the prophet drunk when he had sexual relations with his UNDERAGED wife Aisha?
You claim that we're, or I'm attacking Islam. I'm only lettting the truth be known. Clearing up your attempt to distort the "True" word of God the Father. That's what you Muslims do. Distort truth. Here is what God the Son, Jesus, say about fault finding,
"Judge not,that ye be not judged." Matthew 7:1
Just incase you don't understand, let me make it plain,
"If you're living in a glasshouse, then refrain from throwing stones!!!"
Islam is a glasshouse. Christianity is a solid foundation upon which a house is built.
Islam is made from brick, but it uses slime for mortar.
Christianity is built on a Rock.
Thus why you Muslims will never suceed with Islam.
It's foundation is miered in slime. That is why you can attack Christianity and it will bounce back stronger than before you attacked it. Attack Islam and the masses rape, burn, and pillage those who expose the truth about Islam. But the thing is that your reaction to criticism of Islam and your prophet, validates or invalidates Islam.
And you Muslims are doing a fine job of showing Islam in it's true light.
In the future, when you attack something, make sure that you know the WHOLE truth. That way it won't hurt so bad.
Maybe one day I'll tell how the prophet, as a young lad, would hear the stories from wayfarers about the the Bible and used the distorted stories in the koran. Or maybe how his trip with the angel Gabriel may have been one of his epileptic episodes. He was rumored by historians to be a possible epileptic.
Ouch!!! The truth hurts,don't it?
To hatshepsut and other posters:
It is interesting that we need to know who started it first and grasp words from religious text to justify our actions.
Was it Gulf War II, was it 9/11, was it the Taliban, was it Gulf War I (Desert Storm), was it USS Cole, was it Kahdaffi and bombing Algeria, was it bombing the US embassy in Lebanon, was it Iranian students and the Shah of Iran, was various hijackings and bombings of commercial airlines, was it various wars against Israel, was it British and French colonialism, was it Lawrence of Arabia, was it Armenians and Turks, was it Tribal warfare, was it oil, was it the Crusades, was it the destruction of elimination of Buddism from their birthplace in India, Was it the establishment of the Mafia in Sicily in a 200 year fight to cast out the Moslems, Was it sacking the Vatican, Was it the Moorish conquest of much of Europe and Asia, was it Jesus and his disciples speading Christianity, was it the Romans, was it the Pharos??? Or did some caveman steal another caveman's food.
You can pull all the passages of the Bible and the Koran out of your posteriors that you want in order to justify your position, it really is meaningless. The point is that we have always been at war and likely we will continue to wage war against each other until the end of time.
I like the pictures of the Balkan Muslims demonstrating against the very people who saved their bacon.
Anyone care to take their side the next time the Serbs go after them?
Seems the Serbs knew something about them few in the West knew.
Simple analysis.
The life of Christ versus the life of Mohammed.
What would a rational, hopeful person choose?
The series of photos also show the familiar pictures of "peace loving" Palarabs stoning Israelis. It's remarkable how seamlessly these pictures meld with those of Muslims raging against the West.
It's obviously the same struggle.
What homo Islamicus believes:
:
Regarding jihad, one can view the following quotes in MAS-Tampa’s “e-Library”:
“A Muslim must always worship Allah and wage jihad until death in order to reach his ultimate goal… Therefore the steadfast Muslim will achieve this goal either through a lifetime of effort or through sudden death as a martyr… Regularly make the intention to go on jihad with the ambition to die as a martyr. You should be ready for this right now, even though its time may not have come yet.” (Fathi Yakan, ‘To Be a Muslim’)
“First: we Muslims have not discharged the duty of jihad that is compulsory for everyone of us in many Islamic countries to liberate the Muslim land from usurpers and aggressors in Palestine, Eritrea, the Philippines, Afghanistan, Tashkent, Bukhara, Samarkand, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan and other Muslim republics (and cities) of the Soviet Union, and other similar places in China, Ethiopia and Thailand, etc… no force can stand in our way today if we act in earnest and devote our efforts to conveying our Call to the whole world.” (Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, ‘Priorities of the Islamic Movement’)
“…the Movement has never forgotten and will never forget the Palestinian cause… [This] has been crystallized in the steadfast, brave, aware Islamic resistance movement “Hamas”. Hamas is an embodiment of the Palestinian People’s belief in its Muslim and Arab origins, and a testimony that this people is still alive and will never die and that its jihad will be carried on by pure hands and clean hearts until victory is achieved with the will of Allah.” (Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, ‘Priorities of the Islamic Movement’)
“The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: He who does not join the warlike expedition (jihad), or equip, or looks well after a warrior’s family when he is away, will be smitten by Allah with a sudden calamity.” (‘Partial Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud’)
“…the Mujahidun who return safe and sound from the battlefield and get their share of booty are inferior in reward to those who are martyred or wounded in Jihad and do not get any share from the booty… when the situation calls for Jihad then the foremost priority of a Muslim should be Jihad.” (‘Riyad-us-Saliheen’)
Regarding non-Muslims, one can view the following quotes in MAS-Tampa’s “e-Library”:
“The Holy Prophet (and through him the Muslims) has been reassured that he should not mind the enmity, the evil designs and the machinations of the Jews… In view of the degenerate moral condition of the Jews and the Christians, the Believers have been warned not to make them their friends and confidants.” (Abul Ala Mawdudi, ‘Chapter Introductions To The Quran’)
“God will cause the jews to be defeated. Earth shall be filled with muslims as a vessel is filled to the brim with water-the entire world shall recite the same Kalima (Islamic declaration of belief) and worship shall be offered to none else except God Almighty.” (Abul Ala Mawdudi, ‘The Finality of Prophethood’)
“The Prophet, peace be upon him, said: ‘May Allah destroy the Jews, because they used the graves of their prophets as places of worship.’”… “The Prophet, peace be upon him, said: ‘May Allah curse Jews and Christians for they turned the graves of their Prophets into places of worship.’” (Sayd Sabeq, ‘Fiqh-us-Sunnah’)
“Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) narrates that the Prophet (peace be upon him) once said: ‘He who possesses sufficient provisions and means of journey for the performance of Hajj and yet does not do so, let him die the death of a Jew or a Christian.’” (Sayd Sabeq, ‘Fiqh-us-Sunnah’)
“A Jew came to the Prophet asking for his debt and said: ‘You are from the tribe of Abd Manaf whose tribe likes to delay paying debts.’ When Umar heard this, he swore that he would cut off the Jew’s head.” (Fathi Yakan, ‘To Be a Muslim’)
“The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. ‘O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him.’” (‘Sahih Bukhari’)
Ironman:
A correction if I may:
Today's "Palestinians" have nothing to do with the Philistines of the Bible. They are Arabs, speaking the Arabic language, practising the Arab religion (Islam) and part of the Arab culture. The Philistines arrived on the scene (probably from the Greek islands) in the late 2nd millenium BCE and contemporary references to them disappear long before the Romans arrived. The Romans then used the name Palestina to replace Judaea as part of their campaign of ethnic cleansing of the Jews from their land after the Bar-Kokhba rebellion (about 130-135 CE). The very name Palestine is therefore fascist in origin, since the fasces themselves were a Roman symbol of authority. What that says about the "Palestinians" of today needs no explanation.
http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=3565
Leave a Message in the Anonymous Muslim Man Complaint Box
Dear Muslim Man Complaint Box,
I saw on the TV that there is a show now with a woman host. This is not very bad by itself because the woman was dressed in accordance with the laws of Islam and did not expose herself and inflame the lust of any male guests. However, this woman was having a talk with guests and things got a bit out of control when the woman host said "no, I don't think so" to one of the guests. I was so mad I told my wife to drown herself in the bathtub while I finished watching the show. Then, later in the show, the host says "you are wrong" to a doctor! I could not believe it!
Please see if you could beat this woman with a chain and I thank you in advance.
Inshallah Muslim Man Complaint Box,
My child was drawing pictures for school and this is forbidden. What makes the situation worse is that the picture was of our whole family and also blessed Mohammad. It was not a very clear picture of Mohammad and I think his likeness would be considered obscured by the scriptures. Just to be sure I hanged my son and burned his body and then my brothers burned the school and also hanged the teacher. What I want to know is what can be done about the ability to draw? Any child can go about creating blasphemous rendering of Mohammad! This is lightning in the hands of the unprotected. My son is in the afterlife now because of these crayons and "construction" paper, which I say is "destruction" paper. That is a little joke, but I am not laughing. Something must be done.
Dear Muslim Man Complaint Box,
This is a complaint in general about women these days. Things are getting out of control with the influences of the West and they are more willing than ever to speak their minds. Yesterday I thought I heard a woman whisper "Ally McBeal" in a marketplace to another woman and then their heads turned to each other like they might be making eye-contact through the mesh screens hiding their eyes. I do not know if anything can be done about this, but I would like to find myself a good Muslim wife.
Also death to America, death to Israel, yadda, yadda, yadda.
Dear Muslim Man Complaint Box,
I am a devoted Muslim man living in the heart of the beast. I live within the Jew-cursed border of the state of Jew Jewrsey in Jewmerica and I am very unhappy. The other day I heard an American man say that Islam is not a religion of peace. This is intolerable and doubly so when the laws of America prevent me from cutting out his tongue, setting fire to his house and taking his wife as my own. I demand that something be done about this and also death to Israel.
Dear Muslim Man Complaint Box,
I am a devoted follower of the Prophet Mohammed living in the occupied land of Iraq. I am not an insurgent, I am just an honest man trying to live my life. There is an American by the name of Pete Reynolds who sometimes buys baklava from my shop and he is very nice. The problem is I found out a few weeks ago that he was an atheist when I was talking to him. I know it is my duty to kill all infidels, but I was wondering if exceptions could possibly be made if the infidels are particularly friendly. Perhaps I could simply wound the infidels or hurt their feelings very badly. He was fat as all decadent Westerners usually are and I think maybe I could have made some rude comments about that to him and he might have even killed himself. Anyway, no biggie, he was beheaded a couple days ago when the United States refused to release Jalal "The Red Hand of Allah" Al Harami. Get back to me when you get a chance.
PS - Death to Israel
Dear Muslim Man Complaint Box,
Hey, I don't know if you noticed, but my entire family lives in a fucking bomb crater eating leaves all day. I know Death to Israel, Death to America and all that but do you think you could take a look at installing a floor in my crater or something? I'm on your side, I'm Muslim, I just think we need to prioritize better. Maybe ease back on the "death to X" stuff and look into paved roads and running water. When I can afford to buy a car I promise to load the trunk full of fertilizer and drive it into a Jewish wedding. Let's just get me to the "buy a car" part first.
Dear Muslim Man Complaint Box,
Waddup mah G-had niggaz. I'm ridin' high in U to the A to the E and I just wanna kno what a nigga can do to drop dem bombs on tha club. My main Mullah nigga MC Ishuan got hot tracks like napalm and he be wantin' to roll on up with some OBL samples but a nigga be livin in caves and shit. Get me tha GPS and I'll send tha stretch hummer out to pick his ass up. Hit me up on my blackberry and it's on like Alizzy Jizzyerizzy.
D2A, D2I, TTYL
Dear Muslim Man Complaint Box,
I like cowboys and I think that means I have to cut my hands off. That kind of sucks.
Dear Muslim Man Complaint Box,
My daughter was raped by my neighbor and we burned her alive because she was tainted. My issue is that I think I should be able to rape his daughter back instead of having to burn my perfectly good daughter. So she was raped, so what? All of her parts still worked. She could still cook a meal. She could still find a good husband. She could still catch a beating like a net. I think this situation is unfair.
Dear Muslim Man Complaint Box,
the offensive against Christmas in the United States is stalling. Our enemies at Fox News have caught on to our plans and they are hunting down our operatives. Just last week Yasser was caught by the pig dogs trying to set fire to a Holiday Store in the McCormick Mall. Their nativities are multiplying unchecked! Please send reinforcements!
Also if there are any openings I would like to request a transfer to the Death to Israel division. This is pretty much a BS job.
Dear Muslim Man Complaint Box,
Megadittos! Hey, I was just wondering if you could look into moving Sunnis out of the "fidel" category and over to the "infidel" one. I think they are collaborating with the West because I saw one talking to a Russian who I don't think was Muslim and he also didn't look overly serious about killing Israel. Just look into it when you get a chance.
Dear Muslim Man Complaint Box,
I am displeased with the way that Shi'ites drive because they drive one way and we Sunnis drive a completely different way.
Desperately Seeking Fatwah in Damascus
Freedom of expression as terrorism.... (shaking head disdainfully)
What a bunch of ass-clowns.
For our Muslim readers, an example of the freedom of inquiry in the west. This man is challenging the very foundation of the Christian religion. Is he torn to pieces by a screaming mob?
Nope.
You might want to try a little tolerance on your side for a change.
ROME, Italy (AP) -- An Italian judge has dismissed an atheist's petition that a small-town priest should stand trial for asserting that Jesus Christ existed, both sides said on Friday.
Luigi Cascioli, a 72-year-old retired agronomist, had accused the Rev. Enrico Righi of violating two laws with the assertion, which he called a deceptive fable propagated by the Roman Catholic Church.
"The Rev. Righi is very satisfied and moved," Righi's attorney, Severo Bruno, said. "He is an old, small-town parish priest who never would have thought he'd be in the spotlight for something like this."
Cascioli, a former schoolmate of Righi's, said he had not expected the case to succeed in overwhelmingly Roman Catholic Italy.
"This is not surprising but it doesn't mean it all ends here," he said, adding that he's considering taking the case to the European Court of Human Rights.
"This is an important case and it deserves to go ahead," he said.
Judge Gaetano Mautone said in his decision that prosecutors should investigate Cascioli for possible slander.
The ruling was released Thursday in Viterbo, a town north of Rome where the priest is based. Cascioli filed a criminal complaint against Righi in 2002 after Righi wrote in a parish bulletin that Jesus existed, that he was born to a couple named Mary and Joseph in Bethlehem and that he lived in Nazareth.
Righi, 76, said substantial historical evidence proves Jesus' existence.
Cascioli claimed that Righi's assertions violated two Italian laws: one barring "abuse of popular belief," or fraudulently deceiving people; and another barring "impersonation" or personal gain from attributing a false name to someone.
Copyright 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
And kids, don't forget to watch al-Jazeera's pre-Olympic special, Wide World of Wahabbic Sports!
"This is not surprising but it doesn't mean it all ends here," he said, adding that he's considering taking the case to the European Court of Human Rights.
Treehugger~ figure that the European Court of Human Rights will quickly become a travesty of human rights, beginning with attempts to kill off Christianity in Europe as quickly as possible.
Muslims everywhere will cheer.
Posted by hapshepsut: "One ponders the question: Of all the professed religions of the world... WHY has Islam become the chief and sole obsession of so many Americans? Is it purely because of the events of September 11, or are there other reasons? What motivates so many people that are not Muslim to spend countless hours researching Islam if they want nothing to do with it?"
By and large, Americans are friendly, kind, and generous. They are eager to interact with and learn about other cultures. They are eager to share their good fortune with others. They are eager to celebrate the best of what the world civilizations have produced over the centuries, and discard all the bad things. The basic attitude of Americans is "live and let live"--to be a good neighbor.
After the Cold War ended (World War III), the Americans expected that, with the threat of global Communist tyranny finally defeated, they could settle into a long period of peace in which they could redirect their resources and collective intellect to begin solving the age old problems afflicting humanity--poverty overseas, environmental distress, long term energy sources, disease, hunger, and so on.
For the ten years immediately after the Cold War, things seemed to be moving in a favorable direction (with an occasional hicuup). The Americans began reshaping their economy, drastically drawing down military forces (forces were cut in half, basically), and gearing up for a global economy in which their wealth and technology could be shared for the good of all humanity.
Then, Islam attacked. And thus began WW IV. The era of peace ended almost as soon as it had begun. This outcome was intensely frustrating to all Americans. Many, in their frustration, blamed (and continue to blame) President Bush and Prime Minister Blair for stirring things up.
But Americans are now waking up to the fact that there will never be peace in the world as long as there is Islam. Islam is attacking, and bacause of their immutable Koranic scripture, will continue to attack, regardless of what Americans say or do.
Islam does not believe in "live and let live." Islam does not tolerate or respect other cultures and religions. Islam rejects democracy and the rule of secular law.
Islam treats American generosity with contempt, as if it were jizya payments. Islam responds to American gestures of friendship with either scorn, or else taquiyya (deception) and kitman (lying). Islam treats American self-restraint as weakness to be exploited.
Americans are learning that Islam is not a religion at all, but a narcissistic cult dedicated to capturing physical territory, subjugating populations, and looting civilization.
Unlike Islamic tyrannies, no one commands the American populace. The government works for the people, not the other way around. There is no "submission" in America. Individual Americans are studying Islam, because it is the self-declared enemy of all free men. And they are finding out the true ugliness and viciousness of that perverted ideology.
One additional characteristic of Americans is that they are slow to anger. I can tell you, they are getting angry. I am angry. The Yanks are coming.
BBC News sneak in a reference to the Al-Fagr copies in their Cartoon Timeline:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/4688602.stm
"17 October 2005: Egyptian newspaper al-Fagr reprints some of the cartoons, describing them as a "continuing insult" and a "racist bomb".
This wasn't there yesterday when I searched the site for "fagr". There is no coverage of this story anywhere else on the site.
hatshepsut
Dont be so ignorent. If you live in america look around you. Turn on your TV. The Christian Faith has been under the same scrutiny for hundreds of years. Jesus was crucified for his faith and his teachings. The point that your missing is that when a religion like Christianity is criticized it usually ends up in the intelegent conversation or a CALM argument about the religion. Criticizing Islam only brings about VIOLENCE and RAGE as your people have proven in the past week or so. You claim Islam to be a true and noble religion but yet you cease to show us what you preach. Actions speak louder then words my freind and by your peoples actions all we see is hate, death, violence, oppression, amoung other things. If your going to lecture us about the Bible i suggest that you take a good look 1st at what you people are doing in the name is God. Beheadings, Suicide, Murder, Racism the list goes on. Its time Muslims stop acting like babies and stop blaming the rest of the FREE world for your problems. You have only put your selves in such a low state in humaity. Blame your leaders, Blame your Prophet, Blame your Allah! For Abraham, Isac and Jacobs God said he will bless those who bless Israel and curse those who curse Israel. For centuries the Arab world has done nothing but hate Jews and Israel. Yet you still wonder why your people suffer.
Gary-
Good reason for Americans to be wary of giving away our autonomy to a distant, faceless organization with no accountabilty.
The Supreme Court is as far as I care to go, and that's only because I'm in the 9th Circut!
GrimReaper says: "It is interesting that we need to know who started it first and grasp words from religious text to justify our actions."
From that perspective, it does seem senseless to argue "who started it?". But we can look at what initiates every cycle of violence by looking at stretches in time where there is peace. Given a peaceful state, what changes it to a violent one? Islam contains characteristics such that Muslims following it are obligated to take a peaceful situation and turn it into a violent one. Someone criticizes the prophet--a non-violent act--and Muslims according to their religion must respond by punishing (indeed, killing) the critic. Muslims are lacking in non-violent means of solving problems and responding to criticism. They have to appeal to force, authority, sympathy, etc. So we can say who started it, and it is almost always Muslims who change a peaceful state into a violent one. Note the banner at the top of this thread, which likens Free Expression to terror.
Thanks Mat Guy,
But your description more than hammers home the point I was making about Palestinans without even trying. You serve our task well, and you will be rewarded.
Disbelief is the worst crime in Islam, worse than killing a Muslim. Slogans such as on the banner held by the Muslim woman at the top of this thread, referring to free expression (of disbelief--i.e., the cartoons) as terrorism (involving killing people) illustrate this principle. These hard-line believers listen to their cleric, and the cleric takes the Koran seriously.
Just wait until we start our anti-Valentine Day riots!!! Bwahahahaha... A fatwa has already been issued against this sick practice.
Abdul
The caption on the sign says it all -- Equating "Freedom of Expression" in the West to "terrorism" is a grave lie, and utterly profane.
Such insidious distortions of reality seem to be a necessary component in Muslim thinking -- their mindset apparently requires this kind of distortion, as well as a staggering number of other lies and insane departures from reality in order to maintain Islam's sense of victimhood and righteousness...
from the muslim poster, early on:
"One ponders the question: Of all the professed religions of the world... WHY has Islam become the chief and sole obsession of so many Americans? Is it purely because of the events of September 11, or are there other reasons? What motivates so many people that are not Muslim to spend countless hours researching Islam if they want nothing to do with it?"
Stendec did an admirable job describing the reasons. I would add that if I could make islam dissappear in an instant, and erase the entire ignoble 1400-year history of your wretched cult, and bring back all the civilizations it crushed, I would be so very happy to do so, and never think about islam again.
(Sorry for not responding to the rest of the crap you posted, since I routinely scroll through without reading it)
for those of you who have not heard about the petition to support JYLLANDS POSTEN, here is it....
http://www.petitiononline.com/danmark/petition.html
if you stand for freedom of speech, please sign it and pass it along.. we need to show the world (especially our emasculated world leaders) that we will not be intimidated or driven into silence by a bunch of backward-A$$ loonies.
"Or maybe how his trip with the angel Gabriel may have been one of his epileptic episodes. He was rumored by historians to be a possible epileptic.
Ouch!!! The truth hurts,don't it?"
Posted by: Ironman Hondo
If you research in the bible, it states that a epileptic fit is a form of demonic possesion, although perhaps indirectly.
As modern tech has looked into the epileptic, they discovered that the same area of the brain that is active during a sezure , is the same as during prayer.
Such knowledge was unknown during the bible times, and adds to the bible's status of a true book, to those who can accept it.
Hatshepsut wrote; "...My beloveds, I give these few passages to you as an example of the deception, dishonesty, and twisted purpose of those who attack you here, who spend all of their energies and exhaust their knowledge and resources attacking Muslims and what we believe, without looking at what they claim to believe themselves.
_____________
So the Pharaoh chronicles the transgressions of Old Covenant characters - so? From a Christian perspective you are completely missing the point, that all of mankind (including Hatshepsut) falls short of God's glory. That is why we need a Redeemer Shep, as a vicarious atonement for our sins. My beliefs don't hang on fallible men, but the on risen Messiah. Stick your nose back in the book and find one transgression attributed to Christ. Then read his teachings which are in stark contrast to the vindictive and legalistic nature of the Koran.
Freedom of speech is "terrorism" to all oppressive tyrants. The one thing they DO NOT want anyone to do is think for themselves and voice their God-given opinions. Tyrants and despots only want slaves who submit.
"hatshepsut", you said "...funny, they are not interested in converting the atheists, wiccans or satanists". Wrong. God wants every person to be saved and come to an understanding of who His son, Jesus Christ is. What you fail to understand in your reading of the bible is that while the bible records Lot being seduced by his daughters, it does not at any time attempt to justify this sin or say that Lot was right in doing it. It simply records it as a historical fact, stating that the way certain tribes in the middle East began was through inbreeding. It likewise records David's SIN as historical fact. It does not justify it or attempt to use it as an example of the way to live. The same applies to Noah. Nowhere in the Old or New Testaments can you show us where this behavior is justified. Rather the bible paints a true picture of these people, warts and all as they say, and shows that they all sinned and fell short of the glory of God, as have all of us. Remember also that Moses was a murderer, as was King David. King Solomon had multiple wives. They were all sinners. The bible records these things as history. Nowhere does God say that what they did was right. That is why men need a saviour, the same saviour, The Lord Jesus Christ, whom the Q'uran and Mohammed rejected. God showed that man would need a sacrifice for his sins when he told Abraham to sacrifice his son on the mountain. Abraham was prepared to do as God commanded, but God intervened at the last moment and provided a sacrifice Himself, so the boy's life would be spared by substitution. This was a foreshadowing of how Christ would have to die on the cross for the sins of all mankind, which the Q'uran says never happened. Jesus Christ called God His father in heaven. The Q'uran says this is blasphemy because "Allah has no sons", so the Q'uran is caling Jesus Christ a liar. If Jesus Christ was a liar then He cannot be a prophet and the Q'uran is wrong for calling Him a prophet. Either way the Quran is wrong. Many Muslims have realized this and have become Christians. Maybe that fact is what has you so upset. You have failed to defend Islam, and you have taken the name of a pagan Egyptian queen who worshipped false gods. When you are weighed on the day of judgement you will fall short unless you repent and accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour.
Your problem is that you may not study the WHOLE Bible. You've got to also read the New Testament as well. Not just the Old Testament. Just like I read the WHOLE koran. But then, being a Muslim, you won't. You Muslims are too afraid of the truth.Posted by: Ironman Hondo [TypeKey Profile Page] at February 10, 2006 02:05 PM
Ironman Hondo you have it nailed on the head! the muslims must think we are as stupid as they are.. you got to read the whole Koran and if you only read the "Old Testament" you are leaving out the most important aspect of the Christian World! l surely think when some honest muslim learns to read, he cannot logically remain a muslim?
Heartening to see a Channel 9 phone poll (Australia). When asked "should multiculturalism in Australia be brought to an end" Result was 93% yes, 7% no. East is East and West is West and never the twain shall meet .. Rudyard Kipling. I suggest replacing the word East with Islam.
Here is a very long, but quite lucid analysis of the clash between the West and Islam, by Bruce S. Thornton. It is well worth the read.
http://victorhanson.com/articles/thornton021006.html
To all JW and DW anti-jihadists....The Drudge Report who has had 11,806,953 visits in just the past 24 hours, has decided to post the following:
MOHAMMAD BOMBER T-Shirts (with cartoon picture)
http://www.drudgereport.com/
Drudge doesn't appear to be selling them, but the vendor attached to the story, is: http://www.shopmetrospy.com/
Thanks to Matt Drudge and Metrospy for not bowing to the crackpot Islamists maniacs who choose to behave like diapered adolescents instead of adults.
The ridicule reserved for them is established, and it is on the move...
The actions of these 'protestors' have opened a world wide can of worms for them, because this time they have gone too far over the line, telling all of us what to say and do.
Although there are still some cowards who dhimmi up to these vermin, the resistence to their barbaric behavior this time around appears to be strong, and growing.
Keep slamming them, they've earned it. The truth is not bigotry......The truth is just the truth.
Hear no Islam, see no Islam, speak no Islam.
Isn't it sad that the woman holding the sign who can't see out thinks she's free? Like I've said before, in Islam, up is down, black is white, murder is love, truth is the ultimate lie.
The irony in that picture is relentless.
Scribe10: we didn't "misunderstand" the Serbian Christians.
We deliberately ignored the muslim atrocities against the christians.
Then, when Milosevic had enough and started removing the muslim murderers from his country, all western hell breaks loose.
You see, it's politically correct to kill christians. But it is suicide to defend against muslims.
The constant muslim murders of christian villagers goes way back. Hitler faced the situation and waffled. Mussolini sent in the troops to stop the muslims.
Much of the populace in former Yugoslavia desceneds from the remnants of the Byzantines. That's how far this enmity goes back. So when the muslims mounted an effort to commit some genocide in Bosnia, we backed the muslims when the christians defended themselves.
Makes any thinking man sick and ashamed of his politically correct country.
Mussolini,
you can thank "Gutmensch" Clinton for that.
Now we know!
Unfortunately, hindsight is such a pain.
And we still allow, no: We actively support Kosovo and Bosnia to be Mohammedan Jihad-outposts in the middle of Europe...
Interested-
LOL! "...lost her eyesight when someone mistook her for a letterbox"!
And I had just gotten over laughing at the headline and the sign from the article's opening.
George Orwell, phone home! All is forgiven!
http://www.islamundressed.com This site goes along way to explaining the psychology of these twisted little sisters and just in case l'm mistaken for a Christian. http://evilbible.com LOL
HEY BEN HUR
MUSLIM MAN COMPLAINT BOX WAS INSPIRED, YOU NEED TO WORK ON SOME MORE.
THANKS...
Nice to type my first comment on this website!! The past few days brought a lot to discuss. I dont like talking religion, but as a rare species that visits the church once in a while, i felt a lil curious about the cartoons and the following drama. Let me explan my view of the freedom of speech.
1. freedom to judge if some thing is right or wrong based on my knowledge
2. freedom to express happiness, anger, pain and so forth.
Judging by the so called "mohamed cartoons" that i found in the danish daily and other websites, the first thing that comes to my mind is, all this is no trait of a civilized human society. I mean people should criticize each other's actions but not with the intention of hurting a community. We should express our view of the islamic rules that we find wrong. But the cartoons published are meant just to disgrace the musilms. As some one rightly pointed out, what if some one pisses on the american flag in public? should we call it freedom of expression? Is the American judiciary gonna say its freedom of expression? the answer is NO.
I found the people who visit these sites a lot more different from the normal people i see around. Almost every one i i talked to had the opinion that the cartoons printed in the danish newspaper was just to disturb peace and create tension. Here people have the view that the muslims should not protest at the cartoons printed or that are going to be printed in the future. I feel, protest is also a way of expressing your thoughts or feelings. So if we can print those cartoons, then they can protest. No, Im not gonna protest unless my cartoon gets printed haha..
My question to the people who printed those cartoons, is WHY DO YOU GUYS WANNA DISTURB THE PEACE OF THE WORLD?? Its interesting to note that its all is started by us (the so called civilized society)
RE: My question to the people who printed those cartoons, is WHY DO YOU GUYS WANNA DISTURB THE PEACE OF THE WORLD?? Its interesting to note that its all is started by us (the so called civilized society)
Let me correct you as these same pictures were published last Sept and NOTHING happened.
It is apparent that someone (or they) are using the cartoons as a pretext to violence and antagonize the West. Maybe Condo Rice was correct when she stated the Syria and Iran have orchestrated said events.
Everyone is so obsessed with these stupid cartoons while Iran merrily works on it's
nuclear bomb.
Brian~ there are two Billion Christians around the world.
Quick question: how many people died because of the 'piss christ'? How many buildings burned? How many major protests in countries around the world?
Nada
None
Zero
Zilch
NO ONE.
And therin lies the difference. islam needs to grow up.
Yeeeah. I'm not Christian. Not even remotely. But honest to several Gods, these people need to calm the hell down.
And Hatshepsut, while one wouldn't want to follow the example of someone who cheats on his wife or is incestuous, it begs the question....
Why would I want to approve of or follow the example of a religion that brutalises women, perverts the very notion of free thinking, let alone free speech, and approves the wanton destruction of children, those who are our last, best hope for peace? And yes, before you ask, I detest Catholicism, as a hypocritical, child-molester-approving religion. What about Islam is something that we, as an "enlightened" nation, should approve of, or NOT say that we disaprove of? While your points about Christianity were (somewhat) valid, let's not forget that the Bible is little more than a collection of fables, the morals of which are lessons on how to and NOT to live your life.
Hatshepsut:
Your posts are too long and boring! However, you have freedom of speech here - did you notice that? Are you then indulging in western terrorism? (Islam's view,,not the west's!)
Further to you post:
As has been said before the Bible has undergone a lot of scrutiny and debate, and I for one,,,and sure I am not alone,,,do not take everything in it as an indisputable fact, or literally. Consider the time when these old Books were written and by whom. I include, absolutely, the koran here. In fact I believe it was dictated as Mohamud couldn't write?? Yes? Who knows what later interpretations came about?
As someone pointed out, in different words, Lot didn't start a religion. So no one followed and glorified his sins. These people were not deified.They have no specific group of followers.
Therefore it is intellectually dishonest to compare them to your prophet. If you then say Mohamud wasn't deified,,well the recent events seem to suggest otherwise. You are all acting as if he is your god - look at the rage everywhere!!
He is supposed to be your prophet,,not your god.
As for western interest in islam - well,,,,this came out of misguided tolerance; wanting to know about your culture...not just to put you all down but what we have seen isn't real good!!
I hope this cartoon fiasco comes back to bite those who started it. I do not mean the Danish. Islamonazis have used it as an excuse to wreak havoc yet again.The world can plainly see what idiots are out there, finally! This may be a good thing!
Cathkins:
thanks for the result of the multicultural poll: I missed it!
Terrorism: The use of terrorizing methods. 2:The state of fear and submission so produced.
What the woman's sign says is true, from her Islamic viewpoint. Freedom of expression to her *would* be Western Terrorism. They are *afraid*, ladies and gentlemen! God grant that the pen will prove mightier than the sword!
Posted by Brian: "Almost every one i i talked to had the opinion that the cartoons printed in the danish newspaper was just to disturb peace and create tension."
Brian, those to whom you are talking are ignorant of the facts. Anyone who knows the least bit about the story knows the the Danish paper was testing the level of self censorship in the Danish society, based on the fact that cartoonists were paralyzed, by domestic fear of Muslim violence, into not illustrating a children's book on the life of Mohammed.
Posted by Brian: "My question to the people who printed those cartoons, is WHY DO YOU GUYS WANNA DISTURB THE PEACE OF THE WORLD?? Its interesting to note that its all is started by us (the so called civilized society)"
Brian, 9/11 disturbed the peace of the world. The bombing of the USS Cole disturbed the peace of the world. Beslan disturbed the peace of the world. 7/7 disturbed the peace of the world. Muslim attacks all over the world in the last decade have disturbed the peace of the world.
Apparently, you and those to whom you routinely talk would have us all not notice who made those attacks, and what inspired them to do so. The answers are 1) Muslims and 2) Islam.
Stendec-
You got to the "Life of Brian" before I could.
I would only add:
Pissing on the American flag is protected by the First Amendment ("free speech"). Piss away!
No one watching think anything but that you were an incontinent dork.
For claiming this falsehood as a fact, you are either:
A) ignorant (unconscious of what your purport to speak of as the truth);
or:
B) a liar (spreading conscious untruths).
As to disturbing "the peace of the world", there never was any.
Ever. History is written in blood.
As the great Greek philospher Heraclitus noted 2500 years ago:
"Strife is king."
(Or, in newer lingo: "Dynamic struggle is the norm.")
He also said: "All is flux/Everything flows." and "You cannot step into the same river twice." A sharp fellah...
For there to be the "peace" you seek, everyone would have to be clones. Uninquisitive, even-tempered, unthinking, passive, bland zombies.
Or isn't that what Islam wishes from its people through the "submission" -of the free mind to an unfree dogma? Clones of the Koran.
The Danes, not being Muslim, are free to question the tenets of any so-called "prophet", especially if his teachings lead to hysterical violence and intolerance.
And they were wondering about the possibility of rabid reactions to even the mildest artwork (a children's book on the life of Mohammad whose author could not find one artist in Denmark wouuld did not fear for their life if they drew the book's pictures). The editorial cartoonists wanted to question this fear when they drew the cartoons. To see if Muslims were really so crazy as to riot over mere doodles.
(Sadly, they were. Overlooking the underlying cosmic joke: since no one knows what Mohammad looked like, how can the protestors claim that these cartoons represent "Mohammad"... but they are too simple-minded for understanding such religious subtleties.)
The cartoons themselves were a very mild form of satire, at best. Most were oblique to the point of being pointlessly bland. The "bomb turban" image, the one most vilified by the self-styled "iconoclasts", only reflects a reasonable critique by of the real, daily, bloody actions of Muslim terrorists. Maniacs for "Allah" who gaily use the Koran as their "Anarchist's Cookbook", quoting its suras to justifying sawing a tied-up poor guy's head off with a butcher's knife ...on t.v. ...while squealing "Allahu Akbar!" demonically over his gurgling cries of pain. (The "peace of Allah" no doubt?)
This is the view we in the free world get of Mohammedans in action.
Self-declared Islam at its rawest and most active.
You look bad when you follow your beliefs most sincerely.
You aren't peaceful.
And the world is getting sick of the laughable hypocrisy.
Calm down the lunatics using your faith for a Juggernaut.
Or the West will be forced to overturn your death cart.
It's up to you.
We don't believe what you say ("peace"), because we see what you do ("terror").
"You shall know the garden by its fruit."
In Islam's case, it is death cap mushrooms.
And your Gibreel is the destroying angel.
Of his followers, ultimately.
Brian:
You say "As some one rightly pointed out, what if some one pisses on the american flag in public? should we call it freedom of expression? Is the American judiciary gonna say its freedom of expression? the answer is NO."
Brian, the American judiciary does not agree with you. If you piss on the American flag in AMERICA you will be arrested, IF you do so in public. You will not be arrested for pissing on the flag, but for exposing your genitals in a public place.
Now, get this straight: The courts have already ruled on the situation you pose. Destruction of the flag is considered protected speech. You an destroy the flag by burning, ripping, shreading, pissing, soiling, or in any other manner that satisfies your subjective need for expression.
Of course, it must be YOUR flag. You don't want to get arrested for stealing a neighbor's flag. And remember, don't take out your weenie in public.
Another caution: The American judiciary cannot protect your burning (or pissing on) the American flag in some other country. There you are on your own.
And get this straight too: We have freedom of speech and press PRECISELY so that we can express UNPOPULAR ideas. If we could only express those that YOU LIKED we would not be very free, would we. So, our freedom is to protect our ability to denigrate, ridicule, blaspheme, oppose, embarrass, and challenge anything and anyone and any idea.
Our only limits are to time, place, and manner, and these are required to be by the least intrusive means.
Hey, Hatshitsuck:
You want know why we are "obsessed" with knowing about muslims and islam??
Here's the deal: The Western world has established itself as superior to the muslim world for over a thousand years, because we do some things that you ignorant camel drivers don't do.
First, of course, we refrain from exposing our asses to the air half the day long. Don't you know that all that ass-raising causes blood to rush to the head and makes you rock back and forth when you sit up to read? We find it fascinating that some sand shuffling idiots haven't figured that out yet, but we all keep thinking it will happen any minute. So we have placed bets with each other on when it will dawn on you all, and we want to watch closely so that we can collect on our wagers.
Secondly, we base our culture on something other than the demented ramblings of a syphilitic pedophile. We have a hard time understanding why a culture such as yours would be so eager to embrace such obvious idiocy, but we are always looking for ways to improve our marketing of the abundance of products that we in the West actually manage to produce, and we figure that if somebody can crack the code on how you guys have been sold on this really stupid religion, then we can all make millions on the Perpetuity Scheme of Islamo-marketing.
Third, and probably most importantly, we in the West study EVERYTHING terrible. We have whole bodies of science dedicated to studying poisonious plants, snakes, spiders, viruses, bacteria, falling objects, traffic congestion, and other deadly or dangerous things. We also devote a lot of public health funds to studying psychological illnesses, psychoses, personality disorders, neuroticisms, and compulsions. The islamic world offers a huge laboratory for such studies, especially in the area of narcissistic personality disorder, borderline personality, and persistent delusion.
Then, of course, there is the criminological goldmine. Islam offers the student a universe of murder, arson, rape, mayhem, infanticide, fratricide, assault, fraud, and larceny. The student of crime has a virtual fountain of available cases in any subject, and can sort by multiple variables without seriously diminishing the sample size below statistical significance.
In short, islam offers the student of the absurd, the insane, and the criminal, with the best and most complete source of material available anywhere on Earth.
Thanks for asking.
I took your advise and wrote to the Publisher of The Roanoke Times, Roanoke, VA. This is the reply:
----- Original Message -----
From: Wendy Zomparelli
To: (removed)
Cc: Mike Riley ; Tommy Denton ; Carole Tarrant
Sent: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 5:35 PM
Subject: RE: Freedom of Speech
Dear (removed),
I've decided not to publish the cartoons you mention on the basis that we would not publish cartoons depicting Jesus in a negative way. This isn't about freedom of the press; it's about what is appropriate for The Roanoke Times. As long as I am publisher, we will not denigrate any major religious figure or deity in editorial cartoons. Similarly, there are many graphic photographs that other newspapers print that we feel are inappropriate for our newspaper.
What happens elsewhere immaterial; I don't think we should allow our behavior to be set by the standards of the violent hordes rioting in Middle Eastern streets.
Thanks for sharing your concerns.
Sincerely,
Wendy Zomparelli
Well, camel-lady, pack yourself and family up and move back to Bedrock, Crapistan!
Islofob,
Thank you for further adding to the truth.
LuLu,
I'm humbled. Thank you for the compliment.
I sincerely hopes somebody takes that picture and starts using them as T-shirt logos/signs. Why publish cartoons when that photo tells it all??